StarLost
StarLost
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@kaneyboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923827#Comment_2923827
and then killers being really toxic in end game chat- just adds to the cherry on top :D
I'm increasingly playing both sides these days (probably more survivor, as it takes me longer to get Iri 1 on) and - even accounting for the 4 v 1 difference - you're more likely to see a survivor acting the fool than the killer.
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@kaneyboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923809#Comment_2923809
i mean im talking about 5 gen camp and tunnel... through DS and BT and others trying to take hits. its just sucky. and its happened to me 3 times in a row tonight.
'Camp' and 'tunnel' are very, very different.
Camping someone at 5 gens is dirty pool - you're probably going to get 1-2k max.
Tunneling someone at 5 gens is just a good strategy - by the time you're at the EOGC, tunneling someone is a bit pointless :)
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@kaneyboy said:
So all iv seen lately is killers are tunneling and camping because boon healing is too strong etc, even with the buffed legion they are still resulting to really annoying games you just don't want to play.
@AnchorTea said:
Tunneling was always a problem.
It's...just the way the game works. Rule of 3 - if there are 4 survivors alive at 3 gens done, you're probably going to get destroyed. 1 survivor dead at 3 gens, it's your game to lose as a killer.
Now you could force the killer to never hook the same person twice and to make sure to two hook everyone before they kill anyone, but you'd have to completely redesign the game to account for this.
Barring that - it's the responsibility of you and the other survivors to ensure that damage is distributed evenly, not the killer.
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@_NIGHTMARE_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923767#Comment_2923767
Yeah, university language is odd... I've lost count of the amount of times I had to Google something in class.
My missus is an academic and she hadn't heard of 'trimester' being used outside of pregnancy either.
Doing a bit of reading up on it now, and there is actually a pretty interesting debate around it.
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@_NIGHTMARE_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923675#Comment_2923675
Yes, the DbD Twitter and forums are my two top contenders for driving me away from Uni work. 😆
Luckily, I was able to force myself away and now I'm done for this trimester - I can focus on my own time and relax.
Definitely cut it pretty close, though. A lesson learnt... 🤣
Your...trimester?
*Looks it up*.
Huh. I learned something today.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923679#Comment_2923679
You know what I mean dont fake to not understand.
There is only masculine gays represented in video games. The queer culture is forgotten.
There is only space for heteronormative looking characters in video games. And Im sad.
Surely a gay character looking traditionally masculine is substantially less heteronormative and more 'queer' than if they'd made him effeminate. And if they'd made an effeminate gay character, they would have been lambasted for playing into a stereotype.
Something tells me this game is rigged.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Hi! Welcome back!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923675#Comment_2923675
The flag hasn't caused half as many issues, trust me because I've been screenshotting it all
Yeah I'm catching up on threads I missed. It appears that I quit Twitter...and it somehow followed me home.
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@jesterkind said:
Allow me to spread the good word of a Hellblazer paragraph with John Constantine as a survivor. It was in one of the previous surveys! I'm sure it's possible!
If we want to bring new players in, though, I think our best bets are FNaF or Alien. I have no feelings either way about the former, but the latter has a lot of potential from my perspective!
That would be absolutely amazing (as long as it's...classic Constantine, not the silliness that he's become since Vertigo was acquired). Maybe Nergal or The First as a killer?
Yeah, I can dream...
While we are at it, Rize from Tokyo Ghoul would be awesome.
@ElleGreen said:
What next big license would you all like to see? Not video game licenses though because people that play video games already play this game! What Is a license you think from a show, movie, comic, anime, etc that you think would bring In newer people like how Stranger Things did? Buffy The Vampire Slayer or Supernatural I feel would be good ones! Movies like Alien and The Thing would be cool! Im not super Into anime or graphic novels but Death Note and The Stranger Things novels are cool!
Going by rumors, we're going to see a xenomorph, Pennywise and Chucky in due course. FNAF is somewhat inevitable.
I'd love a 'The Thing' chapter, possibly Candyman and I would never say no to a big spoopy spider.
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@Anara said:
To be clear, Im gay in real life and the collaboration with GaymerX (is that the right name ??) is a disappointement.
David King is nothing representative of the gay community. And doing what JK Rowling did with Dumbledor is just so easy and fake.
I was really excited when Behaviour said they were collaborating with GaymerX to CREATE the first gay character for dbd.
My personal hopes was about a queer character. But I knew Behaviour would not take the risk.
Its more easy to create a gay character who looks straight, but its not representative at all. I know gay with straight look exist, but it doesnt help gay community to be accepted by everyone. It just says its wrong to be queer and its right to be gay but looking straight.
David was the most annoying gay fanfic I saw. And its too easy to recycle this fanfic and make it real.
Even if the character is a gay looking straight I though it would be a new character. I though the collaboration was about creating a whole chapter.
Im just disappointed and I think Behaviour is not supportive as they said they are about queer community.
Interesting.
If you wouldn't mind, could you please explain what it is to 'look straight' as opposed to 'looking gay'?
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
Glad to have you back Nightmare, not much has changed other then David becoming gay and creating a entirely expected #########-storm, but other then that, it's exactly like how you left it :)
I think the new flag is causing the majority of the issues, as this tends to be contentious even within progressive circles.
That said:
@_NIGHTMARE_ said:
After a long break from the Forums, I'm happy to have returned 😊
I had to take a lot of time off to prioritize my University work, as I was getting quite behind.
Luckily, I've met the deadline on time.
Super pleased to say that I've hopped back into the game recently and managed to get both Adept Oni and Huntress in the same day.
So how has everyone been? I really missed being around here. 💕
Welcome back, and congrats!
I...should really spend less time on the forums myself. They are just way too useful for procrastination.
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@TurboTOne said:
I know i shouldnt complain and you can tell me to get good all you want. But i think if you want to play Demo on a good Level you will not have a fully charged shred all the time. Im mostly getting downs without fully charging them and had games in wich i had 1 single fully charged Hit. Other Dailys are way easier and make more sense like Legions 4 Hits in Feral Frenzy. Maybe just change it to down 4 Survivors with a Shred Attack.
@ColonGlock said:
I agree his daily should be changed or at least lowered to 3 or 4 full shreds. Something that can be accomplished in one match.
Yup.
Not to mention that this one constantly seems to break with patches.
Even with me playing a pretty 'shred heavy' Demo style, I don't always get this one in 1 game. Artist and Plague can also be annoying.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923481#Comment_2923481
It's imperfect, but I don't really have a problem with it.
I have a lot of other thoughts, but I've already gotten far more socio-political today than I ever intended to on this forum.
No worries. I've actually had some decent discussions on these boards - at least it's not Twitter :).
@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923481#Comment_2923481
"As per the comic earlier in the thread, the 'clubhouse' has become the size of the planet."
Is it really that much a problem if means people will accept that there is more than 1 way to live a life?
And I wouldn't say that anyone is being excluded. You dont have to be LGBTq+ to be an ally.
Again, I'm not putting forward my own opinion exactly, more how I could see it being taken by people outside of the modern blogo/activisto sphere.
Each of those stripes and structures has a specific meaning - it's the standard pride flag, but with black and brown stripes to represent 'black and brown' ethnic groups (I'm not sure if 'minority' is the correct term) and the triangular 'trans' flag, structured as to 'centralize' black and brown people at the intersection between the other minority identities.
Which color represents 'ally', exactly?
My own opinion on it (as the resident forum grumpy elderly centrist) is that all of this is silly, (mostly) well intentioned and harmless - but that at a certain, and rapidly approaching point it's going to become counterproductive. Even within progressive movements, it's pretty controversial, whether for being 'too inclusive' (ie. not expressly excluding the police, capitalists, etc. not to mention certain religions):
Since its debut, the symbol has had several redesigns in the name of inclusion. But some fear that the changes are merely for the sake of branding, absent material steps toward real equality.Or because it plays hob with the original meaning (now you have two stripes representing race, while the rest are sexuality related):
The black and brown stripes on Philadelphia’s new rainbow flag are inspiring hope in some and anger in others.Or because the new flag is viewed by some progressives as deliberately reductive and divisive (and a particularly 'yikes' association made by the creator of the new flag):
Or will the old one work just fine?While others have gone on to claim that it's not inclusive enough - as by including the brown and black stripes, it excludes asians. It also seems to be a bit out of date, as the newer flags contain a circle within the leftmost chevron to represent intersex.
And this is where I think a lot of people throw up their hands and go 'yeah, I'm lost'.
@かわいいアザラシ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923481#Comment_2923481
The flag is a symbol for people who are oppressed not those who are oppressing. That the flag stands in solodarity with minorities does not lessen this fact, because in nations of mainly coloured people the flag and its message is now excluding the oppressors in that region/country. In rwanda it could be straight cis colored people in iran it would not include the power structure there. The fact that the default is white cis male is because thats the ones who has done the oppressing in western contries (and all across the globe) for alot of our modern history. The colors is a reminder of our unity and thus a symbol of opposition to opprerssion.
Worrying that something gives to much ammo to a group who literally invents ######### to blame on a minority is honestly playing right in to their hands, because they will never be satisfied beacuase of homophobia or racism or whatever. Even your point of "only excluding white traight cis people" Reads alot like a problem that noone but those people actually has.
Let's not start sliding down the 'white people are the historical oppressors' slope, because that never ends well.
Humans were the historical oppressors -basically everyone that could reach out and engage in a bit of casual conquest did so. That's most of the history of our species.
Basically everyone has been, at some point, an 'oppressor', which is why I see this sort of divisiveness as dangerous and wrongminded.
Also - it's one thing to have a minority representative group (that by it's nature excludes the majority), and a majority representative group that deliberately excludes a specific minority. There's...actually a word for that, and it's not a good one.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923399#Comment_2923399
I was speaking to the US/EU more than globally, yeah. And obviously the term minority is subjective depending on where you are, but my clear impression is that these flags are primarily displayed in regions where they (as individual demographics) are minorities. Is that not accurate?
Primarily? I'm not sure.
New York or Montreal? Yes.
San Francisco or London? No.
As you move out of the USA/UK/Aus, it shifts further. DbD is pretty big in Japan and definitely has a fair amount of Chinese players, for instance.
Honestly, the new 'progress' flag feels like a well intentioned mistake to me. If I were a 'progressive', I'd worry that I'm giving people on the far right a ton of ammunition - as it really does appear that not only are you excluding straight Caucasian males, you're only excluding straight Caucasian males.
As per the comic earlier in the thread, the 'clubhouse' has become the size of the planet.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I think it's about solidarity between minority groups, which is a good thing, imo.
These aren't minority groups anymore though. Unless you're talking exclusively in the USA/UK.
Even if you separate Indian-Asian from SE Asian, Caucasians are still third and not far off fourth.
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@lauraa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923322#Comment_2923322
Movements, like language, evolve overtime. "LGBT" has long since evolved to mean more than the sum of its parts, and no longer means what it literally means. But that'snot a bad thing.
It might be more accurate to label LGBT as GSM-gender and sexual minority. It's not a stretch that a group that bands together in the face of biological discrimination would ally themselves with racial minorities.
Fair. I do understand some of the thought behind it.
Where it gets a little strange to me is:
- This isn't a USA flag. And outside of, what I'd guess I'd describe as 'The West', these aren't minorities. While including them may be well intentioned, if you look at things globally - you're including the majority of humans on this flag, and only essentially excluding straight Caucasians. This may not be intentional, but it's also...not good.
- Including ethnicities with identities does connect them somewhat, which I'm not sure is a brilliant idea. The interests of a hypothetical oppressed ethnic minority are going to be different (and at times possibly even contradictory) to the interests of an oppressed sexual identity group (particularly when that ethnic minority is socially or religiously conservative).
- The more wide-reaching your ideological grouping becomes, the more dilute it becomes - and thus the less useful it becomes when achieving goals.
@thrawn3054 said:
I never bother with charms but if it makes you'll happy go to it.
I've got some I use (I love the 'crow' charms and the spider ones) but yeah, they are by far the least important cosmetic for me.
@lauraa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923337#Comment_2923337
You should, the brighter the better!
A streamer accused me of using bright charms not long ago to counter Boil Over apparantly...I never thought of that before Haha
I got bollocked out in postgame the other day for including all the spider charms on my hooks - apparently they made someone wiggly IRL.
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It's certainly a clever marketing strategy - whether it's people celebrating or lamenting, the more people talking about your game the better.
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It's sort of the new, ever expanding 'pride flag', which seems to have Katamari'd stuff outside of identity criteria now.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923122#Comment_2923122
IIRC they're there to represent the harsher struggles of lgbt+ poc (mostly black and mixed people?) and to help show that despite the issues within the community at large (with problems like racism, transphobia, and aroace exclusion being pretty massive for a community that's based on inclusion) they are noticed, valid, and accepted.
But I could also be majorly wrong so if anyone knows for 100% sure and can correct me, please do.
It is a little strange as an outsider, as previously the acronym/flag had to do with sexualities, then identities and now it seems to include ethnicities as well. At a certain point, I wonder if this is going to gradually rob this linguistic grouping of meaning via dilution - as the broader your category gets, the less precise it becomes and thus the less useful a signifier it is. As it stands, it's gone from representing a minority - to a majority if you look at things from a global standpoint.
Doesn't really bother me, but it's certainly an interesting topic of discussion.
What is frankly even more interesting is how much the flag is starting to resemble the South African flag.
@Heartbound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923126#Comment_2923126
In America they added everyone with a shade darker than the Spanish and Africans to try to create an Us vs Them (with more of a focus on "us" because there's a huge push for inclusion). I found it odd since it's unlawful to be homosexual in most of the world, but if you're a politician/business and you want that money you're going to be saying hey I'm on your side.
Most of the world's population is not of European origin. I think Europeans are ~6% of the world pop? So the flag represents 70% of the world + the Europeans that like the flag. Of course it represents a lot of people. The only people not in there are people of Asian Heritage and Straight people. Now as a weeb I'm happy to be lumped in with Asia, I just wished they liked us as much as I like them.
Spent most of my adult life in Asia. It's...different. Lots of positives, but lots of drawbacks. I had a blast (and very nearly wound up a lifer), but my wife had a very different experience as an African woman.
@[Deleted User] said:
I love this argument so much!
Because we totally aren't conditioned from the moment we are born that boys like girls (and vice versa) and you'll get a girlfriend/boyfriend, get married, have babies grow old and die.
Probably not best to say that it's being shoved down your throat when we have been drowning in "straight propaganda" from birth.
I'm not sure if 'straight propaganda' is the correct term here. Most human couplings are done for the purpose of procreation. Now, there's nothing wrong at all with being attracted to the same sex, or having a slightly different identity - but it's not unexpected that the majority will view things through a straight lens - because the vast majority are straight.
Propaganda implies some sort of dishonesty. And I don't think there's any intent to deceive here at all.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923141#Comment_2923141
no i just know the context behind """straight pride""" and heterosexual people trying to force themselves into the lgbt+ acronym
if you don't get the subtext from this comic then idk how to help you babes
But...if the flag literally includes everything besides straight Caucasians (which it does now, unless my understanding of the colors is flawed) - doesn't it actually represent the majority of human beings now?
It's just a bit odd to me.
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@randonly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923215#Comment_2923215
The crouch function remains essentially dodging hits and playing stealh, as I said. Don't make this another us vs them thread
...How on earth is this an 'us versus them' thread?
It's pretty obvious when it's being used to stealth/dodge and when it's being used to essentially spit in someone's face.
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@amberfreeman said:
Hello everyone! I hope you all are doing okay. A few days ago I was playing DBD by myself when I happened to come across two players who I've played with before, well, actually just one of them, because the other one was playing as a killer and they both were trolling the game... you know, the survivor would tell him where we are so he would kill us and they could farm points and all of that. But this time they both were playing survivor and everything was okay at first, they let me and the other random die at the end without attempting to save us but I didn't care about it. When we got to the chat, the random started to kind of being salty with them, I was just curious about why they didn't save us, so I asked them. They started attacking us becasue we speak Spanish, saying racist and xenophobic stuff. I have screenshots of their messages and also their steam profiles. I would like something to be done, I don't like playing the game when I come across this kind of players, I know this is not the community of DBD and honestly it just makes me want to stop playing. I have the screenshots of their messages and steam profiles so please if anyone could help me do something about this. I tried going to Steam Support but they didn't do anything.
Thank you for your time <3
-J
As above, yup - this is reportable on multiple levels.
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@_AdamFrancis_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923068#Comment_2923068
Thank you. I thought it was gonna be today because they were always on Wednesdays but thanks for clearing it up.
Ditto :)
Ah well, means I can get some work done around the house today.
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Eh.
I don't really care either way, but if people enjoy this then more power to them I guess.
It does illustrate why this stuff is a bit of a minefield - make an existing character gay and people ask why you didn't make a new character. Make a new character and you get accused of tokenism.
That said - again - doesn't have any effect on my gameplay, and I barely care about the lore as is.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
It's not overpowered in any way, but you know, adapting to things is too hard, so people will inevitably complain and it'll just get nerfed.
The question is, how long will it take? I give it a couple months max.
I hope it doesn't.
It was a nothing effect before this, and it's hardly overwhelming now - while making hit-and-run a bit more viable as a strategy.
Going to be playing some survivor tomorrow, will see how it feels on the receiving end.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923009#Comment_2923009
I can only imagine the backlash on Twitter.
But I sorta feel it would have been better if they made a new character who was lgbtq. I'm still happy about this though
Eh, it was inevitable - and people on Twitter will argue viciously about what color a dress is. It doesn't bother me, nor do I care overmuch.
If I want lore, I'll play a story focused game.
I play DbD for the actual gameplay.
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@GamerEzra said:
https://twitter.com/DeadByBHVR/status/1519330593733021696/photo/1
I saw someone else comment about this as well and I really want this to be clear.
Some people are just going to play David and use his sexuality as an axcuse when they get tunneled. I'm sure people are going to report for this as well. I just want to know if BHVR is going to take these reports serious or not. And just to be clear, I'm not asking this becuase I want to tunnel David from now on. I just want to know if it's true ot not. In case this is true I never touch killer again becuase that would be redicilous. I'm just playing the game and I'm not going to avoid tunneling a David because of this. I've been accused of tunneling someone because they had the rainbow flag charm, that was just straight up NOT TRUE.
I really want this to be answered.
Shrug.
There was a similar bit of drama regarding the Pride charm, where the devs seemed to intimate that tunneling someone with a charm was bannable. They walked this back/clarified, but since then...I still have the odd person threatening to report me for basically not just letting them go because of the charm.
That said - I haven't been banned, and I can't even find an anecdote of it happening to anyone else. As long as you aren't calling yourself something ridiculous and basically just focusing Davids out of the game, you're probably fine.
@RoboMojo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/320661/im-concerned-about-something
They're only going to take reports like that seriously if you
A: Tunnel the same David player in multiple games.
B: Tunnel a David and then say you did it because of the character being gay.
If you're just playing normally, then you're at essentially zero risk of being banned for this. It's not an issue.
It's still a bit of a grey area - I say probably, you say 'essentially', but who knows?
It's a can of worms that - at the end of the day - should never have been opened. I have a tendency to kill off Aces, Nancies, Ash's and any Dwight wearing a silly Christmas outfit...for various reasons. I'm similarly likely to let Jeffs, Elodies and Cheryls get away. I'd hate to think that I'm breaking any rules with my silly headcanon rivalries.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Someone said that Vsyng is back forced again... so...
I wonder.
I know the Artist patch messed something up on my end - my 1080ti rig could just squeak a stable 60fps at 4k before, but I had to tweak quality after to get back to this level.
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@eloise said:
I mean the survivor was hook i go help but the killer micro camp so the killer down me close to the survivor on hook, my team mate doesn't go help him until the P2 and when they dehook him he doesn't came halo me and I was in P2 in my first hook because nobody want help
A few things to keep in mind:
- Even 'good' players have bad games sometimes, making silly mistakes and decisions or just getting completely outplayed.
- Backfill (someone leaving a lobby and the game finding a new person) makes SBMM poop the sheets, and that's where most of the really bizarre games come from. Apparently this will be fixed eventually.
@Littlefabio said:
MMR is busted. I get muppet teammates, paired with muppet killers.
Not going to make the obvious joke, because I'm sure you've made it in your heads already.
@GamerEzra said:
Because MMR is NOT working.😅
It's definitely working. I've seen significantly fewer 'wat' matches since the fixes went live.
It's certainly not perfect (backfill...just dodge any lobbies where everyone's ready the second you jump in) but it's better than ranks were and it's improved since then too.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
DbD might be impossible to be balanced, it's 100% possible to be better balanced than it is now
Bingo.
Once you get past the level of Chess, balance becomes fractal - no matter how close you get to balance, it's just not possible.
However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920486#Comment_2920486
Not tactically. All slugging is fine.
I don't think slugging everyone at 5 gens with Knockout and basically just bleeding them out to be spiteful is fine. It's extremely unfun to play against.
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@GuyFawx said:
I have been having a decent number of matches against killers from China and anytime I am near them the lag is horrible or weird things start happening. I can only assume they are using a vpn client to hop across the pond to the us. So how do I report these players and is it actually something that Bhvr enforces? Thanks in advance
I see this somewhat in early morning matches - but it's not against the rules to use a VPN (especially with the hacking semi-scandal that happened a bit back), and while it makes janky things happen for you, it also makes janky things happen for them.
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@TheRealOne said:
Solo Q is unaplayable. I used to escape literally every single game because I was being matched with survivors that know what to do. Ever since they disabled SBMM I have been getting teammates that are beyond terrible.
I have 3000 hours in DbD and I am being matched with people so bad at the game.
Okay...
- No, you didn't.
- SBMM wasn't disabled, it was just tweaked to give people at the absolute extremes of MMR slightly more variety.
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@Blightyboi5520 said:
Hi this is my first ever post on the forums and i'd like to talk about my thoughts as someone who has 1.4K hours on the game! So, theres many killers that usually complain about bully squads being "Toxic" or "Unbeatable" which i'd like to argue they arent, and they are actually an asset to you as a killer player. For those who dont know a bully squad is classified as usually a 4 man swf with flashlights with the intent of bullying the killer by flashlight clicking at them, tbagging and using meta perks. The thing is, these swfs only go for mainly stupid plays and safes they dont intent to win the game or do gens they just purely want to get chased which in my opinon is the best part of dbd and we shouldnt be complaing about them and more encouraging them because I hear so many people complain about 5 minute games and when they finally get a bully squad they call it toxic and unbeatable when it simply isnt the truth. Anyways, what are your thoughts on this subject matter? i'd like to know!
It depends.
Beatable? Sure. In theory.
But when you factor in:
- Deliberately dropped MMRs.
- Multiple offerings and addons.
Then no, it's not realistic. Plus, a lot of the ones I run into aren't so much there to win as to basically stall things out at 1 gen left and meme on you with sabos, or just play hide and seek around the map to be annoying.
You aren't going to magically 'outskill' a coordinated, deranked 16000 hour Russian TTV SWF as a 60 hour player.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920047#Comment_2920047
It never fails to astonish me when people say that the Wraith nerf was unfair, but that the Engineer's Fang and Deathslinger nerfs were fair.
Wraith nerfs = understandable, but too heavy. Ditto 'Slinger. I get why they were nerfed, but they needed help elsewhere in their kit as the nerf didn't just make them weaker, it made them a lot less fluid and fun to play.
Fang nerf was entirely fair. It's still a very strong addon.
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@danielmaster87 said:
It gets a little old, having killers, their perks, or their powers get nerfed or have a mass of suggestions calling for their nerfing. A lot of what people say is "X is too strong. It needs a drawback."
First of all, a lot of stuff already has drawbacks. Pop has a measly 45 seconds to be used, and Adrenaline Vial massively reduces your turn rate. But those aren't enough in people's eyes; no, they need to be nerfed again! I digress.
Secondly, why? Why should they have drawbacks? Killer powers are supposed to be meaningful and usable, something that they can't be if there's a drawback. Clown's yellow bottles can speed up the survivors, and Deathslinger's chain can be manipulated heavily and broken by the survivors. Killer perks and add-ons are supposed to straight-up improve the killer; they'd have to do that or there'd be no point in them. So you have add-ons like Pig's crouch add-ons, Trapper's disarm time add-ons, Wraith's uncloak speed add-ons. You also have various killer perks that may or may not be used in the meta. But the moment you give a killer a meaningful advantage in those add-ons or perks, people call for nerfs, especially via the introduction of drawbacks. And I'll tell you: that doesn't work.
We've seen countless ridiculous killer nerfs, clearly based around making the game easier for casual survivors, but made in the spirit of "fixing problematic aspects of the game." But as we've seen with many of those nerfs, they don't even nerf the part that people hated. You can still zone people out with Deathslinger, because guess what? His instascope wasn't the problem. You can still instadown people with Clown's Pinky Finger, because guess what? His bottle count wasn't the problem. You can still injure people with Engineer's Fang, because guess what? His number of chains wasn't the problem. All these nerfs have done is make killers' jobs harder, appease casual survivors, and irritate self-proclaimed competitive survivors because it wasn't "the right kind of nerf". The survivors who died and complained about these killer powers, perks, and add-ons are still doing so.
So you might say, "Drawback-based balancing can still work! We just need the RIGHT ones!" No. Nothing makes it work. Not only should these killer things, especially add-ons, be strong, they should also have no drawbacks. If the effect is so strong that it 'needs' a drawback, don't make it an add-on (or perk or killer power). Just don't do it, because it's not worth the hassle of this never-ending argument. We'll then start complaining that killer add-ons are generally weak, because the strong yet drawbacky ones would no longer be with us, but at least then we don't have to worry about stupid drawbacks. But back to the present, I have not seen one killer perk or add-on that has enough strength that it should require a drawback. Change around add-on rarities if you want, so that the stronger ones make more sense, but they don't need drawbacks. With a lot of these things that have drawbacks, and things that people want to have drawbacks, the drawbacks are so great that nobody even wants to use the thing. Let me give some examples.
Add-ons/perks that currently have drawbacks:
-Last Will (Pig): Increases the ambush attack speed, but increases the charge time.
-Trapper Sack (Trapper): Start with all traps on hand, but can't pick them up once set down.
-Ink Egg (Artist): Gives Artist an additional crow, but they disintegrate quicker.
-Deer Lung (Demogorgon): Increases portal travel speed, but decreases total portals by 2.
-Yakyoke Amulet (Spirit): Phase lasts longer and increases recovery rate, but decreases phasing speed by 15%.
-Iridescent Seal (Plague): When a gen gets done you get vile purge, but vile purge is 20 seconds shorter.
-Surge: Damages nearby generators, but it has to be with a basic attack, and there's a 40-second cooldown.
-Hex: Pentimento: Can relight hexes to create Pentimento, but only once each.
Highly requested drawbacks for add-ons/perks:
-Engineer's Fang (Pinhead): Shouldn't injure.
-Pinky Finger (Clown): Shouldn't expose.
-Flask of Bleach (Clown): Shouldn't slow so much.
-Pop: Should only last less than 45 seconds and be cancelled by Blast Mine.
-NOED: Should require hooks to gain exposed effect.
-Dead Man's Switch: Should last less than 45 seconds and shouldn't work on Artist.
The results we've seen from this kind of balancing have been bad, the proposed ideas using this same system have been worse, and the precedent it sets is very dangerous for the future of the game. If things that are "too strong" should have drawbacks, then we have to come to a consensus on what "too strong" is, and that's certainly not gonna happen. So people will continue wanting drawbacks on things that they deem strong, and the devs will give it to them, because they hate to disappoint, and the goalpost of that will continually move towards weaker add-ons. It seems crazy right now to suggest that "Windstorm needs a drawback" or "Fuming Mix Tape needs a drawback", but hey, those will be seen as too strong to some people, so they need that drawback. That's the direction this kind of drawback-based balancing takes us in. Doesn't matter the skill level of the people making the request, as long as it's popular and follows this easy-way-out system. It is, and will continue to be, disastrous.
'Drawbacks' is a bit...imprecise.
I prefer the risk/reward paradigm.
Some perks are low risk/low reward. Sloppy is a good example of this. It does it's thing automatically, but isn't that impactful.
Some perks are high risk/high reward. Pop is a good example - the effect is strong, but you need to deliver it to the gen. Pain Resonance and Devour are even stronger - but are offset by RNG.
This is just how games work.
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@SoloQueue said:
Just played as survivor and the killer slugged for a 4k. I don't think much of it personally, but I've heard some people complain about it. Just an open discussion regarding slugging for a 4k, so please be kind and open to opinions.
I don't do it unless you manage to really annoy me.
I won't begrudge someone else doing it though when I play survivor.
The only thing that gets on my grapes is the weird current trend of killers running Knockout and literally just slugging everyone at 5 gens to bleed them out.
@Pulsar said:
It's literally fine.
Nobody begrudges Survivors for trying to escape thru hatch or for trying to finish all the gens.
The Killer is allowed to win.
Agreed. If you slug tactically, that's entirely fine.
I'm not sure if the OP is talking about this, or the aforementioned Knockout griefers.
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@Necronl0rd said:
With Grade-matchmaking, as a killer I got with back then ca. 200h and Iri 3 or 4, 8 out of 10 Games multiple Players per game with way over 1000h-3000h of playtime and you saw that obviously in game, with the new mmr, it became like 2 out of 10 games, with 1 person over 1000h, who wasnt so far ahead of me. ( And here and there some backfill-lobbies :( )
So For me as casual gamer (I think mid-mmr), yes the new balance isnt optimal, but it feels way better then before.
But of course this is just my personal experience.
This is my exact experience as someone who started under ranks.
SBMM isn't perfect, but perfect is always the enemy of 'better'.
@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919484#Comment_2919484
Everyone was in red ranks, as a newbie I made into red after 2 weeks.
Thats why was so good for killer mains and miserable for solo survivor
It was pretty horrible as a new killer. Nothing but deranking SWFs and people with crazy amounts of hours. I ended up quitting for a long time.
@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919404#Comment_2919404
This is interesting. Do you think the difference can be attributed to the differentiation between Killers MMR?
That is, killers you have less experience with will have lower MMR and thusly you'll be placed with lower hour survivors (generally speaking ofc).
Previously, you had one grade and it didn't matter if it was your first time playing clown, if you were rank 1 you were probally playing against survivors with alot of hours. Now, because the clowns mmr is fresh for you, it is unlikely you will.
I think some of my earliest posts were about the matchups I was getting as a newbie.
We're talking 3man SWFs with 8000 hours between them, who'd either absolutely destroy me or sit AFK from the start.
@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919912#Comment_2919912
The reality is that the actual escape/kill rating is by far inferior to the emblem system in mirroring skill. the matchmaking didnt become any way better, cause this mmr doesnt mirror skill, it just mirrors the outcome of games, ignoring flaws that make this mmr invalid. also due to the nature of this mmr its basically impossible to get out of low mmr hell as survivor, who does not play in a 4 man swf. there is actually no argument to favor the actual mmr over emblem system with an correlated rating. your mmr system is at the moment the biggest issue the game ever had.
MMR hell isn't a thing. I've just started learning survivor and I can definitely tell the difference between the MMR when I started and where I am now - you may not escape every game, but as you get better, you will escape more on average, which will raise your MMR.
Ranks were silly. I was an absolutely new killer and it took me maybe 50 hours to hit purple ranks, where I was regularly paired against Iris with thousands of hours played.
This happens occasionally with SBMM, but that can mostly be attributed to backfill - which is a known issue and should be fixed eventually.
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@agonizing said:
The timer starts to go down as soon as you spawn in. Not when you have control of your killer, it starts the timer before you even have the ability to move so you actually lose about 1.5-2 seconds on the timer.
Then to make it worse, half the time you spawn staring at the corner of the map!
Isn't it that how it's always been?
LP is a weirdly popular but honestly pretty 'eh' perk. I use Discordance for much the same purpose, and it helps me constantly.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
We are back to March 2020 numbers. A year before the RE update.
So not only did the RE players leave, but lots of others too.
Maybe if BHvR actually did something about the grind (which they created), tunneling meta (which they created), half of killers being awful (which they created), toxicity (which they created), MMR (which they created), meta being the same for five years (which they created), lack of variety (which they created), and hacking they could stop the bleed.
They issued an emergency MMR rework to stop the bleed, looks like it's done nothing.
Instead they just watch the slow decline.
It is concerning, but it might just be that DbD peaked last year, with the combination of an incredibly iconic chapter and the anniversary.
APvP games are pretty niche - and DbD's success was nothing short of amazing.
Weirdly, the meta is more varied than it has ever been on the killer end.
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@Pulsar said:
This is just my own personal experience. I started playing Killer and Survivor again during the recent MMR tests because I can't rightly criticize the system if I'm not willing to try to fix it. I continued to play once it was confirmed that changes were implemented, this is my experience.
As Killer:
My matches before the MMR changes were very hit or miss. Sometimes, they were incredibly sweaty and extremely unfun. Other times, the Survivors were clearly below my skill level. Post-MMR changes, it feels like the first few weeks of MMR. It is consistently awful and sweaty. This is the least fun I've ever had with a video game. Likewise, my queue times as Killer have gone up for some reason. They used to be instant to 20 seconds, now they're anywhere from instant to 2 minutes.
As Survivor:
Extremely long queues. Upwards of 10 minutes prior to MMR changes. Matches were completely random. Sometimes we faced a certain well-known Nurse player, other times we faced a Killer with one perk. Post-MMR changes, we have not won a SINGLE match. Every game is filled with horrible teammates and good Killers. The only game I escaped was a facecamping Bubba who just barely didn't get me with NOED. Queue times are still past 10 minutes, our longest queue was 14 and our shortest was 8.
All in all, my Killer games are unplayable so I'm not going to be continuing with that, I'm giving my feedback and quitting, as it were. As for Survivor, my SWF is getting fed up with constantly getting stomped, horrific teammates, camping Bubba's, hard tunneling Killers and two of them are pretty much at wits end with the game.
My suggestions? If you aren't up to admitting MMR was a mistake, dedicate your resources to fixing the game at a fundamental level. That includes camping, tunneling, gen rushing ect. These are all extremely unfun parts of the game that have NEVER been addressed and will need to be if MMR stays.
You might be sitting around the soft cap.
I'll say that while the skill of my opponents didn't seem to change too much after the fix, it's definitely been more consistent on both ends. Note: I dodge all 'ready to go' lobbies due to the backfill issue.
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@ScarBack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2917611#Comment_2917611
I disagree. I play at a low-ish MMR because I constantly let survivors escape on purpose (I get 2 hooks on everyone and let them escape out of exit gates) and still get extremely sweaty survivors running the best perks, items, and addons you can think of.
In fact, I once played 30 games of Doctor where I let EVERY survivor escape (that’s 120 survivor escapes) and then started playing normally, and there was not a single difference in the survivor skill. MMR does not adjust the way you think it does. The system quite simply doesn’t work, and I’ve heard the same thing from everyone else I’ve talked to about this topic.
I hate to say it, but you're either fibbing or encountering a bug.
If I start winning, after 5 or 6 4ks I'll be facing obviously better survivors. Ditto losing.
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@Satelit said:
Anti-Hem is strong but I don't see it used very often
It requires a fair bit of foresight and a smidgeon of luck to work well. Styptic is a lot more 'fire and forget'.
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@Rythoriak said:
Had a 4 stack against me as Myers (not a fan of Myers just want to get his stupid 300 Tier Increase achievment done and never play him again). All 4 used Bloody Party Streamers. Two are TTVs. I decide since they were kind enough to use Streamers I should just convert at the start and all of us get points.
But that is not what happened. I try being nice and they all hide around corners and click flashlights trying to deny an Evil Within increase. I try swinging my weapon at the generator to show I want them to do it and be nice. They won't come out so I just leave and come back, all 4 disperse again in different corners.
I decide fine I will just try to play then. Try chasing, they use typical sweaty tactics but 3 of them always run close together and flashlight click and tbag spam the whole time after vaults and pallets for about 1 minute. I decide you know what I'm in Tier 1, and they are trolling just to be rude so they can't get any boldness from me and go stand in a corner as I don't need these bloodpoints. I sit there the rest of the match. I pull up one of the streamers who is live and they are raging out of their minds that I'm wasting their Party Streamers throwing all kinds of insults my way.
At the end of the match they all say they are reporting me for abusing mechanics so they can't get points from their Streamers and go for a solid minute with insults about me and my family. Am I really the one being toxic here or am I just giving them their just desserts?
A few thoughts:
- Dodge TTVs. Just...trust me. Unless you want to bring your best addons and builds and have a massive sweatfest, multiple streamers in a lobby are a no-go. I've also met some of the most poisonous groups I've ever experienced going up against streamers.
- In games where I want to earn some extra BP (or well...in any games) I go in super hard at the beginning and once the game is mine to control, I can choose to ease up. Nobody thanks you if you play nice from the start - and they can be outright nasty. However, I've only been BMed twice for easing up once I'm winning.
- I've never seen anyone banned for AFKing, even anecdotally outside of obvious botting. It's not something to do often, but in games where you're clearly dealing with trolls, at least you spare yourself a penalty. Don't make a habit of it and you'll be fine.
@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2917443#Comment_2917443
I hate BP items because this is how it always plays out:
- I decide to farm. Survivors (Who brought the BP items) slam gens. Leave. Insult me in chat as if it was their skill that won.
- I decide to play normally. Survivors (Who brought the BP items) decide to farm. They assume I have to do what they want. They insult me in chat for not farming.
- We both farm for awhile. Survivors decide they have farmed enough. If I let them go; they insult me for not killing them, as if they required any skill to live. If I hook them; they insult me for not letting them go.
There are many reasons why I completely stopped caring about 'survivor fun' anymore. 🙃
I play no differently if someone brings streamers or not. I'll generally ease up if I'm stomping face and let people heal/unhook/do gens before I end things, and that's something I do in most games.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
There is definitely an issue going on with the current MMR. I played survivor all day cause I wanna reach iri1 (soloq only).
I kept getting decent teammates and killers all day long until 8pm CEST then it starts going downhill fast. My teammates are WAY below mine and the killers skill level. Which results in:
A) I am the only one doing gens
B) If I get hooked, no one will come unhook
C) I have to go for every single unhook
D) My teammates are legit just slow walking across the map, cleansing dull totems, opening chests and hiding for NO reason at all
This ######### is getting frustrating REALLY fast. I wouldnt even mind if the killer were trash as well but I keep getting full slowdown Blights and Nurses. Also the queue takes FOREVER after ~8pm just for me to get 3 people as teammates who have NO CLUE what they are doing.
Things get a bit squiffy in the evenings - what I mostly think is happening is that there are a lot more queue dodges happening, and these games are always krangled.
I started dodging 'ready' lobbies, and my games have been pretty even for the most part since.
That said - yeah, solo queue is a particular sort of hell at times.
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@Biscuits said:
I am personally finding myself not wanting to que up after just one game. I am either getting demolished or sweating so bad I have to change my shrit.
Then you're probably at a pretty high MMR.
If you want to chill, play chill. Your MMR will eventually adjust.
Aside from SBMM issues caused by queue dodging, it's a lot better than ranks were.
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@Valik said:
While I don't think this is at all a high priority or even on the radar of the dev team, I just wanted to hear everyone's opinion on this item.
It's a good item, it's strong and it's generally balanced to a degree. Does it need any changes at all?
Should it be used in the Dying State?
Should you not leave blood trails while it heals you?
Should it not be an activated item that consumes a medkit, but buff survivors healed with the medkit or activate when a healing action is interrupted?
Is it too strong, or is it vastly inferior to Styptic to the point of hilarity?
What does everyone think of the glowy stabby boi ?
No, Anti-Hem is exactly what an Iri should be. It's strong, but has limits. Ditto Styptic.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
This is something i've always been thinking about since 99% of high rank survivors use dead hard.
If dead hard is nerfed, would people replace it with another exhaustion perk or would they use another type of perk?
I still think sprint burst is the best exhaustion perk, a person who knows how to 99 sprint burst perfectly is much more dangerous than dead hard.
I also think Overcome doesn't lose much to Sprint burst and dead hard if it's used correctly. Overcome is a perk that gets stronger each time a generator is completed, which means you can take the killer to an area where he shouldn't be since there's nothing there for him to do. Overcome can make you cross the entire map at times and I also believe it can be more effective on 110% speed killers.
Sprint Burst. You'd also see a bit more BL and Lithe, as SB has quite a heavy opportunity cost. Overcome is incredibly good for SWFs, but awful in solo queue.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Overcome would become meta if Dead Hard got nerfed
In high end SWFs...maybe.
The thing about Overcome is that it's strength lies in the fact that it gives the entire team a solid ex perk for the price of 1 slot on 1 player. It lacks the power of other perks, and the fact that it requires you to get hit first makes it a bit tricky to use.
Any killer with the ability to instadown can render it useless too.
I'd reckon it would be 60% SB, 20% Lithe and the rest Balanced Landing and other ex perks.
Lithe is just a great perk.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Last I heard cam swing was messed up. Anychanges?
No, sadly not.
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@taah said:
The thing is, you get almost no emblem points when downing someone with a one-shotting power like a chainsaw or oni's dash and sometimes only black-pipping or even depipping. Getting punished for using the killers power really feels off and I think this is something that should get fixed / overworked.
Yup.
Instadown killers are annoying as hell to try and rank up with after a certain point. Ditto Artist (her bird strikes don't count as hit events).
@squbax said:
In the cases you mention thats not punishment, one hit downs make short chases , which mean more pressure which will lead to kills if the survivors are not that good, you get kills you win, you got rewarded by using your power, now if you talk about something like twins hit timer or deathslinger long range shots that is an actual punishment for using your power in a good/cool way.
The OP is talking about ranking up, and how scoring in this game works.
If you're trying to get Iri 1 on an instadown killer, you're going to have a bad time.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916873#Comment_2916873
Calm Spirit isn't a silly example, the amount that it's run doesn't change the fact that you're asking for a perk nerf for 2 killers at most.
No, I'm asking for a nerf to a perk that is effective against all killers, completely hard counters one and soft counters another 4.
And yes, Calm Spirit is a terrible example. Firstly, it doesn't hard counter the Doctor, and second it's a perk that's only really useful against Doctor. If the perk was whackadoo strong like Spine Chill is, then yeah - that would be worth talking about. But it isn't, so it's not.
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916759#Comment_2916759
Apparently so... Some even say it's as strong as pre-nerfed Object Of Obsession 😂
Overall?
Yeah, that'd be me.
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@woodenEnthusiasm said:
Forewarning this is directly inspired by Tofu's latest video on mmr and the meta I highly recommend you watch it. But we as a community need speak up and let the devs understand almost all of our problems with the game stem from the meta. This extends to the comp scene too. The game is balanced you can look at the cursed tournament where everything was allowed and the games remained even. Comp players ban perks because they're unfun which should indicate just how unfun these perks are. Even the devs acknowledge it in their mmr update post. They talk about players of higher skill wanting more variety and not to run meta.
From the killers perspective the meta of dead hard, unbreakable, ds, medkits, boon: CoH, bt are all not just strong but unfun. it isn't fun to lose to a perk it feels like you're losing to game design more than to a player's skill. It doesn't matter how much perks are buffed because unless they're buffed to insane levels like Boil Over was they just won't be used by players who want to win and even if perks are buffed to that level just as we saw with Boil Over it just isn't a good idea.
From the survivor perspective slowdown, noed, and camping and tunneling need to be addressed. Why would a killer ever run anything but 3-4 slowdowns and maybe noed? There's nothing more deflating than watching a gen lose 15%-50% progress then get blocked for 45 seconds. or watching a survivor get tunneled out 3 minutes in. Or even camped for the full 2 minutes
Obviously game design changes to discourage camping and tunneling will take much more work than shaking up the perks but we as a community need to keep bringing it up politely to the devs. We all need to be asking the devs when will the meta be nerfed on every post, every dev update, and every survey. Until they understand this needs to be priority 1 or else we're just going to get band-aid fix after band-aid fix for the symptoms instead of the cause.
Eh...
I watched that video and it amounted to 'well, if this game was completely changed from the ground up it would be slightly better'.
To your specific points:
- DH and CoH, yes. Unbreakable is fine, medkits you can at least drain. If you see multiple medkits, you can bring Franklins, sloppy or the new Hemo. CoH is the outlier as it's insanely powerful and infinite.
- NOED...yeah, needs a rework - but the endgame needs to matter more for survivors.
- Regression perks are totally fine, and the killer meta is more varied than it ever has been. I'd say something like 50% of killer perks are completely viable, and that's incredible.
- How the hell is a gen losing 50% progress and getting DMS'd without an absolute 'stars align' situation or serious misplays?
- Boil Over was silly - anyone could have told BHVR what would happen in practice. The perk is just badly designed - if it's viable, it's horrible to play against.
- Camping, yes. But ye gods is that hard to fix.
- Tunneling...same thing. If you're going to force killers to hook everyone twice before killing everyone, killers will never win - and it's impossible to distinguish a killer tunneling from someone just playing too boldly.
I'd love to see this game get a teardown rework (and moved to UE5), but it's not going to happen - especially as it looks like the game might have peaked sometime last year.