danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932310#Comment_3932310
Let me start by saying survivor items aren‘t fine or in a good spot.
Medkits are basically all the same and the versions barely have a diffrence to a point they could just keep the grey medkit and remove the rest. Medkits were overnerfed and there should be more meaningful differences like faster self heal speed, more charges and faster altruistic healing speed between them.
Circle of healing (only because you mentioned it) could have kept self healing if it was much slower. There was no reason to remove the self care part when they would have nerfed it to self care speed as well.
The weaker toolboxes need some buffs, so they have a reason to exist and aren‘t just a weaker version of the other ones. But that thinking is probably against behaviors philosophy.
So you are actually fine with windows of opportunity on maps as addon? That‘s what the devs said they will do.
Keys need a purpose without addons (instant chest opening and some other effect, maybe losing collision when charging them). One addon could make them hide your scratch marks, pools of blood and grunts of pain when charging them. You should have to hold the power button for a shorter period of time to get the effects faster. The killer aura reading addon could get the debuffs reduced and a range increased.
My only problem with flashlights is that blinding the killer is nearly impossible when they aren‘t stuck in an animation. That‘s why I would increase the blinding speed when the killer is moving.
Firecrackers should get an addon that increased their charges and be available in chests and the bloodweb.
Most addons from items suck. Too many of them are either variants of others or too weak/meaningless.
There quite a few killer addons that got improved, but you are right that a lot of them got nerfed. Some justified some not. On the other hand some addons got nerfed to make them semi basekit for killers, which is a win for these killers. Your examples of killer addons are not the best. Nurse and blight are very strong and probably don‘t need to equip addons at all. Their addons aren‘t good for a reason, but they should at least be interesting.
The difference between medkit rarities is their heal speed. It's not much of a difference, between 25% boost to 35% boost and the like, but it does make a difference. It's why when I bring an instaheal with a throwaway medkit (because it's gonna get used up anyway), I'll bring a green (formerly yellow) instead of a brown, just in case I get the chance to heal a teammate before using it. I do it that way to use up expendable low rarity medkits and save my higher rarity for legit healing builds with good add-ons. If you're planning on healing others, bring higher rarity medkits. If you want it to heal yourself, bring a lower rarity. I think that's what the devs have gone for.
One thing I will say is I didn't like the efficiency negative on Botany Knowledge when healing with a medkit. That was way out of left field, and with that new healing perks and the others, you can easily revert that change. Because Botany's clearly a meta defining perk, right? The change was stupid.
I'm fine with that add-on concept, but I don't know why people would run it over Windows itself. I have no idea what the general killer fuss is about with Windows. It doesn't make noob survivors into master loopers suddenly; they'll be trash anyway. It just lets the survivors who are already good at looping plan their route, and see which pallets have been used already. I have not once complained about my survivor opponents running it.
Those key add-on ideas sound fine and interesting. I just don't want the age of hatch to come back where you don't even have to do your objective fully to escape, and the killer getting punished for killing survivors.
Agree to disagree on the blinding while running. You have your chance to save/blind when the killer is in an animation or finishing up one. It's then or never.
That would be fine for firecrackers, but shouldn't apply to flashbangs, at least so long as they're silent when they're not supposed to be.
I don't like even having the option to put 2 duration add-ons on maps/keys, because that literally does nothing, and is there just to hurt new players.
In a lot of cases where killer add-ons got made base, they still left the add-on there, and so killers still use it. That tells me that those killers still need those add-ons. Like Doctor got a small range increase at some point, and yet he still has to use the range add-on, or Singularity with his Haste during Overclock where he still has to use the Haste increase add-on. That's basically not making the add-on base. You've made a lighter version of it base, while still needing the leftover add-on to compete with the killer.
And yeah, Nurse and Blight weren't the best, but people complain about how fast they are while they cheered on the destruction of their more interesting add-ons.
Clown is another one, with his instadown add-on. Basically Huntress instadown hatchet... with like 3 more steps. You had to directly hit survivors with the bottle, as it's the hardest projectile in the game to aim because of its awkward arc, and when the survivor outlasts the gas, you'd have to hit them again, and they could spin and be tricky to dodge it, basically to where chasing them normally (without the instadown) would be just as optimal. That add-on got nerfed twice, first reducing the bottle count by 2, then limiting it to just 1. So useful. Then they nerfed his next best add-on Flask Of Bleach, because I guess they didn't like the speed differential, but then release stuff like Dark Theory and Made For This.
Or look at Wraith's "do everything faster" add-on, with the vaults and pallet breaks. It used to apply to locker opening as well. Somebody explain why that part needed to go. Please. Because I can't fathom it.
And then there's Engineer's Fang with Pinhead. It basically makes him a worse Legion, because he doesn't get the deep wound at base, but they thought it'd be fair if its downside (which it previously didn't have one) would be "You can injure survivors with Possessed Chain (which is quite hard to land consistently), but then you only get 2 chains." Hmm, so a pink add-on making a killer little better than an M1 (because he can't even use his anti-loop at that point), is what we're deciding as the standard of balance.
Like, they don't realize that these are green, purple, and pink add-ons. Aren't they supposed to be strong, because of their rarity? BNP and instaheals are still a thing, just saying. And y'all say that survivor has become dumbed down or stale. Yes, partly because these various killer strategies have been taken away or made trivially simple, which takes away the survivors' skillful counterplay against them as well.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931657#Comment_3931657
Why is it that everyone assumes the opposite of tunnelling is "random" chases? I've never understood that.
Obviously you wouldn't go for random chases, you'd have a plan of some kind. Get a hook, go to a survivor you either already knew about or got revealed with a perk, occupy three survivors at once would be the obvious basic bread-and-butter, and you'd hardly call that random, it's very purposeful.
However, there's something else to point out as well, which is where you start talking about needing to be good in chase to tunnel people. Do you?
The chase you're taking when you tunnel someone has the following attributes:
- The survivor's guaranteed to start injured
- The survivor's guaranteed to start right next to you with no distance to capitalise on
- The survivor's got a good chance (but not guaranteed) to be starting in an area with few resources, since a chase just happened there
The chase is explicitly, objectively much easier for the killer. If it wasn't, people wouldn't tunnel, there wouldn't be a point. The whole point of doing it is that you have to exert much less skill, and your opponent has to exert much more. Why bother doing it otherwise?
Outside of perks, all the survivor has is ten seconds of Endurance, and that's pretty easy to circumvent. It's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still heavily stacked in the killer's favour.
As for what to do about it, that was outside the scope of this post, but for the record I support survivors losing collision on unhook. It'd be impossible to tunnel someone you can't hit, and it'd be impossible to bodyblock if you don't have collision. With a few extra tweaks, everyone wins.
Well then you admit that the killer is on a time clock that pressures him into focusing out certain survivors, which taken to its extreme (or most optimal) is just tunneling.
Edit: Oh wait, you didn't even get that far. You just think simply seeing other survivors and then going for them one by one is gonna cause team-wide massive pressure. I had a lot more to say, but no, I'm done.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932271#Comment_3932271
I was talking about survivor items and killer powers. Maybe I should have made this more clear. Killers get a lot more changes to their power and most of them are positive or much needed nerfs. On the other hand survivor items stay the same without any changes for years. The last change survivors got to their items were the sabo buffs and that was very long ago.
And I apologize for going slightly off-topic. But the items are fine as is. It was shocking to hear people and the devs be like "Medkits are flashlights are the only useful items." Really? Toolboxes don't make the cut? Or Blood Amber keys? And I notice an awful lot of people complaining about the weakness of using boons, or the strength of hexes, when they never bring a map. The "new item" they announced is exciting, but it's not in the right spirit if it's in response to completely fine items being deemed "useless."
I know the toolboxes got a "nerf" years back, but I never saw it that way. Basically, they got less durability, but more gen progress per charge. So to me it wasn't a nerf, but a trade-off. You're getting the same progress boost, condensed into a smaller amount of time, which is arguably better.
Flashlights can't blind from lockers anymore, because that was literally uncounterable, even though they can still blind off of other grabs which is equally uncounterable. They "more flashlight angles for more fov transaction" was definitely unfair for killer, as you constantly get blinded from off-screen. Flashbangs are useful, and are oftentimes silent (supposedly not intended), so they can blind a killer out of nowhere because they were dropped around a corner. I guess people complained because you can't blind killers through their bodies or through walls anymore?
Medkits were legit nerfed, but you can understand why. This was before the devs nerfed Sloppy and other Mangled/Hemorrhage stuff, when they were okay with the hit and run playstyle (because it was the opposite tunneling, therefore objectively healthy). Survivors with a green medkit could heal themselves in like 8-10 seconds, and other medkits healed fellow survivors equally fast, making killer's hits basically meaningless unless they actually committed to the down. Same reason CoH was nerfed.
Maps have never really been touched. I wouldn't mind them getting a buff, but in what way? I don't know.
Keys are probably the weakest item currently, but I think they're still fine. They can free up a perk slot for Bond or Object, and you can get that affect with the keys' add-ons. I heard they're thinking of making stuff like Blood Amber stronger, saying "It's way too weak." I can't imagine how much stronger you'd make that. And keys were overpowered in the old days. The fact the killer could perfectly juggle the gates against 4 survivors, and they just all jump through a hatch anyway, or survivors do 3 gens and 2 can just get through. That wasn't healthy. That was a massive shortcut on their intended objective. Hatch as it exists is annoying, but that's another issue.
So if those are the nerfs/state of items that survivors are referring to, I know what they're talking about. I just don't think it's as bad as they say it is, for the reasons I've just explained.
You know, killer add-ons are basically the equivalent of survivor item/add-ons, and they've got nothing but nerfs these past few years. Didn't matter their rarity or effect; we've seen browns and yellows nerfed. And the reworks killer has had have been mostly trash. We could have had a wide variety of interesting add-ons, especially for Nurse and Blight, with 5-blink (technically) Nurse, or Adrenaline Vial, Summoning Stone, or Soul Chemical Blight. But no, now we're back to basic Fatigue Reduction/Lunge Duration Nurse, and double speed add-on Blight. Wow. So fun and interesting to play as/go against. Well done, devs.
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@Langweilig said:
The devs really need to put in more efforts to freshen up the survivor experience. Almost every update we see some changes to killers, but almost never any changes to survivor items and how they could be improved.
That's a lie. Survivor gets at least a few buffs/changes every patch. Killers too, but they mostly get net nerfs or break even. Ghoul has been omega nerfed like 3 times, and he just came out. That new survivor's perks are all useful, except maybe the locker one (but still an Object-adjacent ability).
You'll get a fresher survivor experience soon enough with MORE anti-tunnel ,-slug, and -camp than is already present. And if it's still not good enough, just press Abandon so that you can never lose, and hope to find a more fun match quick. Or join a SWF, because they've never even been nerfed, and I don't see them getting touched in the foreseeable future.
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@RakNieborakYT said:
I feel like this game is really in favour of killers and I am not talking about gameplay. Survivors have no herbs, there's no window to save a teammate from a pallet stun, and fog crystal is pretty rare to find (on my matches). While killer roster increases, with new power combinations.
Survivors didn't need the herbs. That was just a 1-time deal where they could cheat out health states and even hook states super quick. Losing them meant they were lost to the killers as well, and I'm sure you're not missing those speed boosts they'd get from them.
I wish the pallet saves would be fixed, too. Instead, I've seen a survivor get stuck for a whole match when their teammate tried it.
And the crystals are cool but ultimately a time waste. You don't need to search chests in 2v8; it just slows your team down.
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@Jadelysta said:
It's the same thing on 1v4 only its Ghoul every single match, so its mending simulator no matter what you play.
Then stop healing and do the gens/loop injured. If the killer still deep wounds you after that, they're losing that match. Crazy how trivial the inconvenient mend becomes when you just use the game's math to your advantage.
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You're still not understanding that it's not the killer's fault. Their room to expand their skill and knowledge has in fact become shrunk, not by them tunneling, but by the unbalanced game state that forces them to tunnel. Hit and run, and going for random chases is great, and probably does a lot for your macro game sense. But it's not viable, and tunneling lets you develop macro game sense too. How hard do I need to tunnel, from what I've seen so far? Can I juggle 2 survivors' hooks, or do I literally not even have time for that?
And to me, which I thought was obvious, you can't be very good at tunneling if you're not good at chasing. It just makes no sense to say otherwise. "All this killer had to do was tunnel, and wasn't even good in chase, and he still beat us!" Doesn't that mean that you're the ones who aren't good? It's never made any sense, to say that a killer is bad for tunneling, but it's literally a strategy, and it hinges of getting quick enough downs consistently just to pull it off.
So for those reasons, I can't say tunneling is imbalanced. And I don't know what the devs could possibly do to make tunneling worse than going for random chases. They'd have to be like, "If you hook someone twice in a row, you give the survivors 100% faster gens" or something stupid like that. Because to me, what could possibly be more efficient than getting 1 survivor out, so that they're not a gen threat, and then going after the others? It makes no competitive sense to do otherwise. Therefore, if the devs do somehow manage to make tunneling the worse choice, they've essentially killed the game at that point. What is a killer to do against survivors who do 5 gens in 4 minutes? They used to have the ability to quickly down and kill (not anymore) or stall with gen defence (not anymore). What is 95% of the killer cast to do against 4 good survivors, who can do gens in like 8 minutes? Still, basically nothing.
And whatever the devs objectives are on making tunneling worse, they can never ever remove it. You cannot stop a killer from going after the same survivor multiple times, unless you make them literally invincible, but that would obviously be abusable (we kind of a have simplified version of that right now!).
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I've got it: 4 vs 16!
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930484#Comment_3930484
If you only manage to get 2 Downs while 5 Gens are done, you are playing the game wrong, lol.
And I am saying: Her lack of a real power, against 4 good survivors, makes that outcome entirely possible. People still can't come to terms with the fact that some teams, you just can't do anything against, at least not with the killer you're playing as. There's no "Oh, if you just play skillfully enough, you can beat them," which is a false message a lot of content creators prop up. No, there's nothing. No amount of detaches, or mindgaming (because many tiles still have no mindgame), or banking on catching up to a survivor after a pallet break before they get to another and another. The top killers in the game can maybe deal with that. The other 95% of the cast can't. And it's not just comp or wannabe comp SWFs who can do this. If 1 survivor knows how to loop, killer could lose the whole game. They'll try to circumvent that outcome by going for the weak link or only chasing when it's a favorable chase. But sometimes there is no weak link. There is no favorable chase.
Given those circumstances, which are very much possible and common, I don't think my initial comment was an exaggeration. You're talking about Pig. Her head traps do nothing for chase, and then she has the dash attack. The dash attack, after all they've done with it, still needs 2 crouch/dash add-ons to be slightly* better than M1/Bloodlusting everything. Preemptively holding forward still trumps it. So if playing a killer who basically can't do anything in 95% of chase situations - getting almost no downs per gen done - is my fault, well then I guess it's my fault. Great logic.
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@ad19970 said:
Kaneki is far from being weak. Yes he will now have to break pallets at times and that will bring his power into a short cooldown, but that doesn't mean he is weak. His ability to get injures is already strong. Then there is his abiltiy to get from one point on the map to another within seconds, giving him huge map pressure.
Lastly, his ability to catch up to injured survivors with his power is indeed still strong. Even the best survivors won't magically have pallets or windows at their disposal wherever they are, especially if you have broken some pallets already.
And if we are talking about highest mmr survivors, we also have to consider the highest mmr killer player playing Kaneki, who surely knows when to chase someone and when to drop chases, based on a survivors position and where pallets are still left. And dropping chases with Kaneki is insanely easy considering his insane mobility.
If anything, he still needs a few small nerfs to really make him fair and balanced. There is a reason why still so many survivor players dislike going against him.
He'll have to break pallets at times, which makes him a 115% M1, and if the survivors keep getting to pallets, which they will because he has no catch-up ability after breaking pallets, then he stays that way. I don't even have to explain why that's unviable. You can break 80% of a map's pallets, and it doesn't matter because the match is basically over at that point. If the survivors run to a dead zone over and over to give easy downs, then that's on them.
If Ghoul is as strong as you say he is, then he shouldn't have to drop chases to beat survivors. He would just keep chasing and get them, right? And dropping chases is never the easy thing to do. You've already spent time chasing the survivor, and have probably just used your power, so it's on cooldown as you're traversing the map. Assuming you do have your power, traversing the map with it means you don't have it when starting your next chase, giving the survivors a free big start on you.
Saying he needs more nerfS is insane. He may* need 1 nerf, which has to do with his kidnap tech (I think they call it that?). Because this is the counterplay I've been preaching all along: If he's going to bound in front of you and cut you off, you should be able to position your body in front of where he wants to go, so that he can't do that. The problem is that sometimes you do that, and he still blocks you off, because it's almost like he warps through you slightly, or slides past you like you're covered in butter, yet then has a huge body blocking hitbox, and downs you. I would make it to where his hitbox during his bounds and while not bounding is consistently big, at least in regards to colliding with the survivors' bodies (and simultaneously don't apply it to colliding with the environment. They've done this with Victor's pounce, and the opposite with Wesker's dash). Or fix whatever "high velocity overrules survivor hitbox" thing is going on. It's one of those theories. Again, I'm not certain what causes it. But that's the 1 thing I'd say with him that needs to go.
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@Shroompy said:
GUYS… BE NICE…
That's pretty patronizing. I thought his points were valid, especially when the killer role is struggling* to find strength and variety. There have been times when I've played Ghoul and thought to myself "I'd rather play Legion." Legion doesn't lose access to his power, which is the point of picking the killer, just for doing basic game functions like kicking pallets. Ghoul was played over Legion by far because he had greater potential* to be strong and win. But after this torrent of nerfs against him, and now with MORE anti-camp and -tunnel to come? I really don't know anymore.
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If he just got reverted to his release version, but had Wesker's slow cooldowns on his power, I'd take that. The changes they've done to this killer have just ruined him. "Oh, but 10,000+ hour players can be so strong with him!" Yes, but if you limit what he can do to that specific subset of players, you've essentially killed him. He was great design upon release because players could play him and have access to 90% of his tech, including console players. I keep seeing people say, "He gets the first injure too easily." That is part of his power, as it is with Legion's. If he's just a power crept Legion, then make Legion better. Or just accept that Ghoul gets an easy injure + mobility, and Legion gets an easy injure but has the 5th-Frenzy downing potential. Ghoul can't down with his power; that's the trade-off.
Was the auto-aim on his power a bit ridiculous at the start? Sure. But what does it matter? If you're out-positioned, and he bounds to you and you're right there, he is supposed to get that injure on you. Arguing otherwise is saying the same thing that's justified against other mobility killers like Hillbilly and ranged killers like Huntress, "Oh, I know the killer made a perfect play, after survivor made a mistake. But the survivor should still have a chance to dodge (and get away for free), up until the very last second." And that's what this game has become. Fov techs and auto-aim to walls and pallets are still a thing, because the survivor-handholding aim and hitbox that these killers have is terrible. You should have got the hit or the down, but the devs say, "No. The survivors should still be able to trump you."
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@ThatOnePigPlayer said:
I’m a pig and ghost face main and I was wondering if you think that the pig is to strong or is to week
Are you kidding? She's one of the weakest killers in the game. You'd have to use her pink add-ons and be on Lery's, so you can actually use her crouch, just to play her. Otherwise you're just leaving it up to chance. Oh, you have 4 head traps? Cool, but you're only gonna use 2 of them max before 5 gens are done, because you have no real power to get survivors.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Title. Thought about using it.
To me, it's hard to get good information from it. There's the luck of needing to look in the right direction for it to pop, which is best done by turning your camera to different directions, and at the right time, and that's if the perk isn't on cooldown. If the killer is not Undetectable, you can hear them coming from 32 meters away, which just 4 meters shorter than Premonition detects, so you'll hear them anyway. If the killer is Undetectable, you could get the notification when they're coming straight to you, or to someone else, or they only went into its range for like a second and are now going the other way. There's just too much speculation you have to do with this perk compared to Spine Chill, because it does basically the same thing but isn't on a cooldown and doesn't require you to look in a direction.
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Yes please. I don't know who'd be the killer, if any, but the main character is definitely survivor material. A lot of good places for map potential, too.
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Candyman, The Thing, or Horror Express.
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@Phantom_ said:
A health chapter where they actually fix things and do QOL and for once bring out a chapter with NO BUGS whatsover. Like none. Like they actually TEST their own game. But I know that's never going to happen, so:
Metal Gear Solid chapter. Can have Volgin, Skullface or Psycho Mantis as killers. Snake, Ocelot, Quiet, Raiden and Kaz as survivors. With DD as Snake's pet 😎
No. They'll sacrifice a chapter, and accomplish basically nothing in the meantime. I thought that was obvious.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929771#Comment_3929771
And that's the point, you're being taken down in a single hit regardless, and in my opinion his biggest strength is instant down which is negated by legion's injury, his dash is more or less better billy(which is still meh due to the amount of pallets in 2v8) and his M1 is honestly worse than normal M1, speed isn't any better than killers I've listed either, on top of it "chain down" is also not as strong in 2v8 because everyone has unbreakable and there is too much survivors who can easily pick slugged one up
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929774#Comment_3929774
He'd be a 2nd most busted killer in 1v4, but here we are talking about 2v8 with infinite pallet and 8x unbreakable with 24 hooks to do
Not to mention the fact you are still have to walk around to find blood orbs so it's not as fast as it looks, not like survivors are everywhere while bleeding repeatedly
Legion definitely isn't busted killer in any way in 1v4, but he is probably a strongest killer in 2v8, thinking it same way as 1v4 balance is strange
I get what you mean. I mean, you might as well be playing Blight at that point, probably giving you better control (because Oni's camera during dash attack sucks). As long as he's hard to play on console, I really don't like Oni, and wouldn't shed a tear if he was nerfed. But you're assessment of his weakness, or rather his value wastage, is correct.
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@crogers271 said:
I also wish tomes stayed. The new system is efficient, but it really doesn't have any feeling to it. It's just like every other game, and misses the unique feel of DbD.
Like I'm completing challenges in the background and not even thinking about them. Feels pointless.
All lore being unlocked also feels wrong. I don't want to go and read 22 pages of lore. But occasionally unlocking lore and reading it, sure.
To me, it's all over the place and yet nowhere at the same time. If you were a new player to this game, you'd have no idea that there's a rewards path like other games, or how to progress it, or where to find the challenges, or what menus to go into. I know this because as an experienced player, it took days to get used to this change. It feels really rough.
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You should never play any class besides Medic and Escapist, since they're forced objectively the best. You could* use a Scout or 2, for the killer aura read and the pallet rebuilding. But definitely don't play Guide; the gens go crazy fast anyway.
In fact, I've seen Medics coordinate their abilities, pop both of them near each other, to basically get an instaheal in chase. Survivor is crazy broken in this mode. Nobody seems to know how to channel that though, except for coordinated SWFs, or the few solos who know what they're doing.
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@ChuckingWong said:
I think the best part of threads like this is we have the same names in here, who say their matches (which are overwhelmingly soloQ) are all turbo rushed gens and they have to tunnel, but then apparently their teammates also dont do gens in soloQ?
Fun stuff.Matchmaking RNG. Worst of both worlds. Difficult time as killer, difficult time as solo. But only when it would negatively impact you.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927002#Comment_3927002
I never play Artist, but when I do, I like using that as an excuse to bust out Zanshin Tactics. My brain is working overtime with bird angles that I don't want to devote any brain power towards vaults and pallets
That's fair. You could almost argue that players should be able to see pallet and window locations as a setting you can turn on and off. I'm sure that would be illegal in tournaments, but whatever. I just hate people's brains working overtime for nothing, like killers not being able to see who they've hooked how many times.
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@Inosennatoki said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5MDRZR10641M/1000000700.gif
Who know about this?
Image is fan created.
I've put a bit of thought into that idea. It would be really cool to have a Atlantean/fish man creature, like so:
Or it could have a more murloc appearance, like so:
But I really like the idea of a killer in one of those old diver suits, like so:
Especially with the diver suits in mind, he could have a Nightfall-esq power (Dredge's power), where the map is underwater for a time (instead of in darkness), which would slow survivors down, or if we're going with the fish man idea, speed the killer up. And then there would be these drain plugs that survivors could pull up to drain the water. That's about as far as I've gotten with the concept though.
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@Caiman said:
Killer duos have already figured out the Oni/Legion combo, which playing against feels like pulling teeth.
I did warn people about this. You cannot have Oni and Legion together. And since we already had Legion, Oni shouldn't have been introduced. And besides that, Oni is the most snowbally killer in the entire game. I could easily see him taking out most if not the whole survivor team in 1 use of his power.
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@I_CAME said:
Legion gotta go. That's my only thought.
"He can injure people! So OP!"
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@indieeden7 said:
I mean, before the nerfs she could use Snug reactively to a survivor dropping a pallet and the grab was still guaranteed, they kind of HAD to nerf his vault speed.
Which is what she's supposed to be able to do, like Huntress at pallets. Otherwise, her power is in survivors' hands.
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@Jspect said:
Yeah I said something about this and many people disagreed, the vault was WAY too fast before but now its completely worthless
It was perfect. I never thought the dog's vault was too fast. She needs it to be fast so that she can actually get survivors with her power.
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Cancel culture.
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918020#Comment_3918020
I don't understand why it's always asked "what else is the killer supposed to do" as if the only possible strategies in the game are hit and running or tunneling/camping/slugging/3 genning, the answer is literally just chasing survivors. It's widely agreed upon that chase is the most fun part of the game (up until hit and run is brought up, oddly enough), and while it's not a viable strategy in most trials my point is that it should be.
And why should solo survivors have to bring an item or perk just to do what swfs can do without them? Especially when it's to counter a strategy the killer can do without having to sacrifice any part of their build, or effort for that matter.
Locks being easy for survivors to use doesn't make dredge take any more skill to play as, I'm not sure the purpose of bringing up that point.
Knowing the surroundings of where you're teleporting is hardly necessary, hardly difficult, and as you mention hardly unique. Sure no killer is totally unique, but there are plenty of killers that aren't identical either, and this singular point of the very slightest skill expression is basically identical to the other examples, and that wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't also unnecessary and easy, but it is. It doesn't magically bring dredge's skill floor out from the gutter.
Just as it's a non issue for experienced Survivors, the lack of it would be a non issue for experienced Killers who don't rely on Survivors lack of knowledge to do well and instead their own skill. Something that serves the entire purpose of making the killer easier to play should be trivial for inexperienced Survivors to deal with as well, so it should just be removed entirely. My point stands that it serves no purpose other than taking advantage of Survivors' lack of info, and therefore getting results just because Survivors guess wrong, without having to put any effort in yourself.
You really think random chases are viable. That, or you're just being contrarian with everything you're saying.
Strategies are used because they're the most efficient ways of winning, which promote skill because they require skill to execute. What killer can simply beat superior survivors by tunneling? He won't even be able to down them. Survivors not being able to deal with strategies is by and large a skill issue. They don't have a right to complain about a strategy they haven't even attempted to employ counterplay against.
I say this all the time: There's no reason to not bring in an item. It's a free advantage. And if you're playing to escape, you bring the 2 items which increase those chances the most, which are obviously toolboxes and medkits. If hit and run is so prevalent or strong, please, run a medkit. Especially if you're one of those survivor's who's like, "I'm not doing anything until I'm healed" or "We always get interrupted healing!" If you need the ability to heal yourself or finish off your heal, bring it.
The locks that Dredge gives survivors for free has been stupid from the start. We're just not outraged about it because it's been in for so long. But survivors really don't need all that, especially not the 2 lockers being locked by 1 lock (essentially).
I don't get how you don't see ANY skill in what the killer does. You can't simply turn your brain off and play killer. You're juggling like 10 things even a medium level of play. Give the players some credit.
And I get what you mean with relying on survivors' lack of game knowledge, but that's an issue with the killer role itself, and an 'issue' with the learning experience itself. Killers who are skilled at the game want to be able to beat good survivors, not just bad ones or ones lacking knowledge. That's why inaccurate matchmaking has been so bad for the game. But the survivors, in any event, need to understand that killers like the Dredge are the way that they are. Yes, Nightfall and hit and run can be inconvenient, because they're supposed to be. The killer is an obstacle to be overcome and is in opposition to the survivors. If they're unable to have meaningful abilities or use strategies, what's the point of the game for them?
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@WetDiapers said:
Survivors are too strong especially SWF. Nerfing them would make this game balanced.
They are too strong, but the immediate causes are the bad matchmaking and SWF. To nerf solos before first fixing those would be disastrous. Let it be known that SWF has never ever received a nerf, not even 1, even when we know that their gen efficiency is always higher than solos unless they're trolling.
@Langweilig said:
60% kill/win rate isn‘t enough I guess.
The kill rate proves that the people who refer to it don't understand the relation between statistics and what actually happens during a match. You could have tons of killers get lucky with extra NOED kills at the very end, and boom, 10% more kills, even though they really got stomped throughout the whole match.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927502#Comment_3927502
Funny how you have to construct a fantasy scenario where the pristine killer in shining armor really wants to go for 12 hooks this game and politely takes at least 90 seconds to get that first hook, but the evil survivors are touching generators instead of waiting patiently to get these numbers.
Strawman. He never spoke of intent or character. And it's not fantasy if it happens to killers every time they get on, including pretty experienced ones.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927385#Comment_3927385
with the slug meta? It was way more than 1/100 games games
Then maybe the 4% should've been removed, because that random mechanic encourages killers to never hook survivors.
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@jajay119 said:
I disagree in a way that it's not a communication issue because I've had plenty of matches where I'm doing a gen and someone else is too, but the third person isn't. I spend as much time as I can on the gen before I decide to leave and then normally when I'm half way across the map, the other person has come off their gen and then the third player has decided to unhook. If there were an 'I'll go for the unhook' emote like the mobile version had I'd like to see how that impacted gameplay.
Similarly with all the proxy camping and slugging going on at the moment, people doing gens often come off to try and help and then it can snowball from there whereas if you can be told 'don't bother they're camping' it means you can stay on gens for far longer.
So, I agree with you that survivors not doing gens is an issue, but I do think communication is an issue too.
Well, they don't need more info. If anything, the killer needs more info, because they're stuck counting hooks with coins irl. The communication that SWF on comms gets for free takes the game awareness aspect out of the survivor experience. If 2 people are on gens, and 1 hasn't been, that 1 needs to go for the unhook. If they start getting chased, then the other ones know that one of them needs to go for the unhook now. I think people are just too scared to hook trade, even though it's a time positive for the survivors assuming they're pushing gens.
An improved matchmaking system, putting survivors of similar skill level and game awareness with each other, will lead to better matches. You don't know what you're doing? Okay, you get put with teammates and a killer who also don't know what they're doing. You're really efficient? You get put with teammates and a killer who are also efficient. It should be like that, always. But some people are way too clever, so that despite their claims that they're casual or that DBD is a party game, they complain constantly about killer being OP, and don't consider better matchmaking a viable solution.
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I've been saying this. And the odds that we lose against are just pitiful. Like literal Eyrie of crows, Ghoul who's not that good at chasing (because me and 1 other player gave him 2 game-losing chases each), and the gens simply weren't done. What was going on? While all of that chasing was occuring, the other 2 teammates who clearly didn't know what they were doing did like half a gen's worth, collectively, OR healed each other to full. Any decent team could've done at least both. Other teams have died for equally no reason, refusing body blocks, heal techs, strong loops, everything that's available to them. They don't even bring in items, a completely free advantage, and then insist on searching chests. Like, what are you doing, man? These kinds of teammates make killers like Pig, Ghost Face, and Clown seem viable. And when that's actually the conclusion that players come to, because they don't understand how bad the survivor team is playing, of course they're gonna believe that anything above that is OP. "Wraith is OP!" Why? "Because he's fast AND has stealth!" Wow, I wonder why he's not being run in tournaments, nor the other 90% of the killer cast.
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@LordGlint said:
I got three of those challenges done in a single match (carry 500 meters, grab a survivor and 800 seconds of aura). I think ppl drastically get over dramatic for these, especially since the challenges done have to be done this week. You have the next few months to do them...
That's the part I don't like about them. You're gonna deny me the chance to get BP and and rift fragments by putting an arbitrary time frame I have to complete them in. For what reason? Who does this help? And it doesn't help that the menus are super confusing and changed up now. That first week, I didn't even know what I was looking, probably missing out on those quests in the process. Guess that's a skill issue on my part, right devs?
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@SeriousRain said:
I think he is rare, on the weaker side Killer who needs some help. I think he is so cool and creepy killer but his power is hard againts decent Survivors.
I would love if locked lockers would not work or only half duration during nightfall. Add more lockers on some maps too (helps other killers too).
Make his acting out of tp more fluid, like peak Unknown's tp. I'm so tired of Dredge and Unknown and Hag losing out on hits because the game physically didn't let them swing, or in fact slowed them down, when their gameplay loop hinges on their teleports being instant.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
We certainly did need another mending simulator killer. Very frustrating. He can also practically still hit you right out of power. Thought you made the pallet thats right there a half a foot away? Nope
I just don't agree with the "mending simulator" stuff. It's the killer's power; it's supposed to do something meaningful to inconvenience the survivors. On Legion, the longer they mend the more detrimental it actually is, because you possibly re-hit them to continue your Frenzy's combo. You're only mending all the time if A) you constantly reheal and reheal vs Legion, which why would you do that?, or B) he's using his Frenzy on you while you're injured, which isn't quite ideal for him as it wastes more of his time than yours.
And on Ghoul it's a similar paradox to Legion, where you want to use your power on them to get a health state and then some, but that encourages them to stay injured (and push gens more, too) which means you can't use that power on them. And I don't think his cooldowns are that dramatically strong. If he cancels power on you point-blank, he's still running a few seconds just to catch up to you, similar to Wesker's near miss with his power except he gives the survivors a football field's distance before he's back on them.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927293#Comment_3927293
What can killers do if the survivors are purposely hiding somewhere random on the map, and are purposely waiting until the EGC is almost over before going to the exit gates?
Are killers expected to be able to reliably find survivors that could be hiding anywhere on the map?
Or if they're just too good at looping, or there's too many broken loops left, to where the killer can't possibly get them? The killer's just their entertainment, their plaything at that point, whose time is getting wasted while the survivors show off and be toxic. I say either let them abandon the match as OP says, or let them open the exits themselves at any point. All of the survivor abandon conditions and lax DC penalties are for their convenience, more than anything. Why should killers be denied the same?
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MacMillan and Autohaven maps have always been survivor sided. Coldwind, too, up until very recently (and still is, on multiple variants).
Wrecker's Yard is terribly survivor sided. Loops every which way.
The main building windows on Shelter Woods, Father Campbell's Chapel, and Garden Of Joy are way overpowered. If you're a 110% killer and the survivor runs to any of those places, just forget it. You must retreat from them. Chapel also has that dumb spot where shack directly connects with a jungle gym, or sometimes a 4-wall. And like OP said, Suffocation Pit's middle area where there's tons of strong loops connected to each other, not cool. They have the same thing on Azarov's, on top of the map being an automatic survivor win if the gens get split.
People haven't really liked the new Eyrie map, but I think it's crazy survivor sided as well, basically the Wrecker's Yard of Eyrie, but it's got all those god pallet tiles.
And the swamp maps are the most polarizing, because they can have the biggest deadzones, but regardless they have those ridiculous main buildings, and when they have good filler tiles as well, you just can't win there as killer. Every time I see those corner log tiles, it's like "Great, that's a free Entity Blocker chase."
The Unknown's map is just crazy. All those filler pallets, including those double pallet ones which were also added to the new map AND its new jungle gym type tiles? It set a terrible precedent for map design. Even those very edge tiles, pretty strong as long as the pallet is still up.
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Some people just want to face a killer who can't really do anything.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927217#Comment_3927217
The abandon feature doesn't prevent you getting humped on the ground for 4 minutes if there's even one survivor standing.
While I don't think toxicity has a place, you have agency and options as the killer while the 2 minute timer ticks. It is possible to force survivors to make a mistake and get a kill, let alone blood warden, which is a literal win condition that requires exit gates to be open.
And the reason people say to "hit them out" is because does exactly what you want: it stops the behavior, and they have to leave. I get that it doesn't make it less frustrating sometimes, but the option you're demanding here already exists.
And it's an option, because you can hit them out, you can go get BP around the map and take solace in knowing they're literally just wasting their own time, or you can go grab a drink.
The big thing people don't seem to want to acknowledge is that "go grab a drink" is the only option for a slug, for 4 minutes. Abandon is great if the conditions are met, but it's not hard to slug for the 4k to bypass it. You don't get to ignore it or earn BP, and you can't "force an error" to somehow escape from that situation.
These two scenarios are not equivalent, the only common point is BM, and there's no real solution to that. At least not a solution that the devs can implement. It's 100% a player mentality issue on both sides of the problem. And sometimes that will require you to step away from the game for a bit of its too frustrating (although, expecting a mature response is exactly the player mentality in taking about here).
But what if the killer player doesn't want to do all that? What if they just want to press a button and be done with it, like survivors can do?
And I suppose this means you support survivors trying to do gens and escape when they're the ones in a losing match, instead of just hiding/abandoning?
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@ad19970 said:
Can't say I agree with this list a lot. Killers like Oni, Artist, Spirit, Wesker, Huntress, Freddy or Dracula sure as hell don't need any buffs, they are strong enough at this point. Especially Spirit, who is an S tier killer if you ask me.
Also, I fail to see how someone like Leatherface or Doctor needs massive buffs. Some small buffs maybe, but no massive buffs. Doctor might not need any buffs after the last buffs he received.
Nurse and Blight are also not balanced in my eyes. They need some nerfs, especially Nurse. Blight probably only needs some small nerfs, but nevertheless, nerfs.
Freddy doesn't need a buff? Are we talking about the same killer? He's not even close to A tier. I can't think of any buff they could give him that could possibly make him OP.
And Doctor needs buffs because his chase isn't good enough. You shock people repeatedly to deny them the pallet/window, which oftentimes leads them to getting 5+ loops at a time anyway, because you slow down every time you shock. He just lost his shock at hook tech, which was already counterable (need I explain?), which was the strongest thing he had.
If you compare these killers to a 115% M1 killer with no abilities, they can do quite a bit. They're "strong," so to speak. But that would've been the thought process in 2016. We're past that now. These killers have to be strong enough to compete in the modern version of the game. Against a mixed bag of survivors, any killer can win (basically what the current screwed up MMR system gives us), but the moment 3-4 good survivors come into play, most killers don't stand a chance.
Nurse and Blight are only OP if you think all of those inadequate killers are fine as is, which they aren't. They should be the standard at which other killers are raised to compete. If they're still the best after that, then we'll concede that they're OP and needs nerfing. But it has to be after other killers have been buffed to somewhat compete with them. You will kill the game by making Freddy or Myers the standard for killer strength. They're not good enough.
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Tunneling didn't get called the strongest only after camping and tunneling were nerfed. Most have been saying it's the strongest since the very beginning. Because it is.
And just based on how the game plays, I can't imagine it ever not being the best strategy. The devs will never reward the killer enough for them to play otherwise. All they do is punish, ironically affecting the more skillful/strategy-based players more (i.e. those who tunnel well).
Can you win through random chases? Sure, sure. But that's a dice roll if ever there was one. The moment a decent survivor team capitalizes on that, you're done. And I guarantee you the people always saying "I don't ever tunnel, and constantly get 4ks" definitely do count hooks, most likely alternating between 2 survivors until death, like I do. They don't just go for random chases, because the best players in the world can't even do that and still win consistently.
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@Inosennatoki said:
Ghostface, Pig, Skull merchant and Trapper need buff.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/86F81RLYZGV3/1000000675.jpg
Did you make that art yourself?
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@Elan said:
Here's mine who to buff tierlist.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y4P1W2WS9X1D/sn-c3-admek-obrazovky-285-29.png
This is my kind of tier list!
I think Singularity, Dracula, and Vecna are way overrated, even on this list.
Singularity, I don't know how anyone ever gets anything going with him. You try to place a biopod, hope it's at an angle where nothing is blocking your sight from the survivor or is out of range, it gets EMP'd (because they're everywhere and infinitely respawning), so all of your set-up for your power is just wasted. You might as well be playing a regular M1.
Dracula and Vecna have the same problem, that they have all this flashy stuff, but it doesn't actually do anything. You didn't get a perfectly straight/open area? Can't use Wolf form. It's a loop with high walls? Can't use Hellfire. It's a map with stupid sound-muting ground? Can't use Bats to track sound. Didn't spawn the skeletons right on the survivor? They miss. Lift/hold a pallet for anti-loop? They still get around. Use fly to get in front of them at a vault/pallet? They phase through you, and make your play not work. Use orb to counter their magic items? Great, now you've taken away their over the top counterplay which they didn't actually need to beat you.
I think killers like Deathslinger and Wraith need massive buffs. Deathslinger's shot, if it ever lands (because the hitbox is puny), isn't even a guaranteed hit/down, and you reeling them in like fishies, and reloading, 2x takes a long time, leading to your best possible chases still being too long. Wraith slows down so much from uncloaking, it negates his speed while in cloak and his pitiful speed boost out of cloak, basically guaranteeing the survivors have time to get somewhere safe. Couple that with pallet stand-off mindgames, detaching to other nearby loops while he's slowed down by uncloak, counter movement to his body block attempts... Wraith actually has the most counterplay in the game.
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I'm just gonna lay it out straight. Survivors already have what they need to win. We can argue whether that's with or without factoring perks, but survivors have had smashing success in this game with far less than they have now. Each time in the past it seemed like there was a killer thing that was really strong, survivors used strategy and efficiency to overcome it. They can do the same now, but 1) the community has been shifted to just asking for nerfs instead of learning counterplay, and 2) the matchmaking isn't what it used to be. If you were at "smart person MMR" (high MMR), you'd all know how to get a free save in the endgame: 1 person gets hit and runs away, the other unhooks, they all body block and escape. Nowadays, you'll constantly see people too scared to make that play, or they'll for some reason commit to the unhook after they've been hit. And it's not just about making smart plays; it's everything. Why does a gen take 2+ minutes to do when it's 90 seconds? Why do people stop to heal when the match is down to the wire, and is an auto-win for the survivors if they'd just do the last gen? You don't get smart teammates anymore, even at high MMR (if it exists) because most of ladder is MMR hell, and this abandon mechanic is the most destructive addition to the problem yet, because it counts as a draw instead of a loss.
If you want the new players to feel welcome, fix the matchmaking. They don't deserve to face a 1000+ hour killer their first time playing. Give them a 10-hour playtime killer, similar to themselves, and leave the experienced killers for those of us who know what they're doing. People might argue that it won't be enough because, "Survivor is just toooo weak." But all the stuff they complain about, the chases being too fast, the tunneling, the gen builds, all of that stuff is practiced by experienced killer players, not noobs. You could make all 110% killers 115% so that they could compete at the top level, and you wouldn't see a marked increase in their performance at the bottom, because those killers players, like their survivor counterparts, don't know what they're doing/aren't efficient either. Trust me, I thought I was the bomb on killer in 2019. No, I was a shrimp, who didn't know how to chase good, or have game sense, or strategize. New killer players are the same. They only beat survivors a lot because the survivors don't even do generators, and walk/crouch around for 60 seconds not doing anything, and hide in lockers. When both sides learn to be more efficient, the game becomes way more even.
And that's why you can't keep giving survivors stuff in the attempt to make them more strong/enjoyable. The high level players already have it down, and will just use any additional tools to make the killer their plaything, with how BIG the strength gap is between them and the killer. Meanwhile, you can give some of these survivors all the buffs in the world: 30 second gens, 10 second heals, running 107% speed, double the benefits of base BT, and they'll still find a way to lose, because they don't know what they're doing. What's left is to just give players the chance to learn. Sure, the survivors will still lose at lower level en masse, but with a functioning MMR system at least the killer will be as chill as them, to where they figure out "I think I can loop him for 2 gens if I tried. I think we can beat him if we just did gens faster." You are robbing them of the classic game learning experience by just nerfing all their problems away.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926001#Comment_3926001
“I'm right and everyone knows it.”
Everyone knows your wrong
Then prove it.
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@Minibeasty said:
So I was being chased and figured I could use my styptic agent to prolong the chase a little. But when I stopped running I couldn't use my item and was downed.
Is there an intended delay in item-use or might his be because of something else?
Sometimes we just overestimate the amount of stopping time needed to get something like that off. It can't exactly be used like Dead Hard, you know, on reaction.
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They need to fix this. It's been a problem with her since release. They don't understand that you don't have time to redirect your finger 3+ times 👈👇🫵☝️👆👉 to point the stupid dog to where you want it to go. It should've been a functioning mechanic upon release.
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M1 killers aren't viable. You just play them to lose.