danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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The menus are just confusing. It's hard to tell where I'm even at.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924973#Comment_3924973
Its hard to discuss anything in good faith in your direction as completely false statements just come from you. With public published data telling you, you are wrong.
literally small tweaks to killer basekit, individual small buffs that eventually move killers 1-tier up at best.•(2024) Hillybilly recieved the largest buff we have ever seen. Moving him from d-tierto the top 5 spots in the game.
•(2025) Freddy recieved a large buff that has skyrocketed him to the number 1 kill rate slot across high MMR published by stats up from.... freddy tier, he had is own tier.
•(2024) Dredge recieved a large buff to his entire basekit. Moving him from D tier to B.Not to mention that none of the actual survivor meta perks were touched either.
(2024) Adrenaline nerfed.
(2024) DS nerfed
(2023) DH nerfed
(2023) Prove nerfedLike what "meta perk" do you want to be "touched" I think is the better question(s)?
and still, huge majority of maps are still survivor sided, Autohaven maps are bugged and they spawn more pallets than they are supposed to, while the only truly problematic killer sided maps are Haddonfield, Vecna's map and somewhat Midwich.
No.
Someone made a post recently which is about as true as it gets. Midwhich is 100% killer sided and you would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise. A trapper can close this map down, thats how killer sided this map is.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/444344/map-balance-with-tier-listBloodlust has been buffed...and then you take a look at changes to survivor MS, latest being release of Orella's perk Duty of Care.
Survivor MS hasnt changed.
Duty of care is a perk with conditions and limitations. Same with sprint burst, lithe, and overcome.Healing gutted? It's literally still absolutely strong. Resurgence exists, Syringes exist and you can literally heal fast with just Surgical Suture on a medkit. Healing is still in a very strong spot, while anti-healing status effects have all been indirectly further nerfed by Vigil buff (Sloppy hardcore because it went to limited Haemorrage and Mangled).
Healing basekit has been gutted since 2023-2024. You keep flipping back and forth what you have a problem with. Perks, basekit, meta/non-meta. You cant just change the conditions of your argument every second and expect people to take you seriously.
literally majority of killer meta perks were hit with multiple nerf hammers, you are talking about buffs to perks that are used more in gimmicky builds
Pain Res nerfed (still the most picked perk).
Pop (still the second most picked regress perk).
Grim Embrace receieved an extremely large buffSo not only are you just wrong. But you dont want buffs to non-meta perks?
You seem non appreciative at all on any of the perk buffs this last year.i don't see a mention of "matchmaking issue" anywhere. Game literally looks balanced exclusively because of almost nonexistent matchmaking, community that gives up 2 mins into matches and players that last 20s in chases. Like let's sit down and think about how killrates got up on the first place.
What?
Its balanced because people give up constantly? You think the game is balanced 3v1 or less? You think the game is balanced for 20s chases or less?
Lets sit down and rethink what we type before we hit the "Post comment" feature at the bottom of the screen.
they have literally gutted slowdown meta to the point where only meta gen related perks are Corrupt, DMS, Grim Embrace and Eruption. We are in an era where survivors have hard control of the match.
At this point you just are making things up in your head.
Pain res
Pop
SurgeAll ahead of every perk you just listed in the meta.
Ruin is ahead of eruption
This is public data.
really? Forcing hooks, and most important spreading them is hardcore punished, tunneling and camping are pretty much dead, slugging is not possible against organized teams, like please tell me where are incentives for actually "playing fair" by the rulebooks?
Your post is a mess. Like you are contradicting yourself. How is grim meta you say above, but then spreading hooks is punished?
If this was true then Grim wouldnt be even taken. Grim has a condition you know, do you play killer? This is an honest question.
Devour hope is meta as well.All of this is public, published, data. I am not sure this long thread of whatever you came up with in your head, that also contradicts itself, is strengthening your arguments at all.
Wow, because those nerfs to DS and DH made nobody run them anymore, right?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Killers need compensation in other areas, whether it’s basekit improvements, better chase mechanics, or meaningful perk reworks,
They've been doing exactly this in literally every patch for three years now.
The past year has had individual killer buffs, base kit, add-on reworks, and usually 2-3 killers per chapter or so.
Maps have been reworked, tile spawn logic changed, pallets significantly weakened, entire realms reworked, newer maps are smaller and have tons of dead zones.
Bloodlust had been buffed, anti gen tap completely eliminated gen tapping, hooks respawn. Healing was gutted specifically by request so people could play hit and run.
Just about every single class of killer perk has been buffed. (The one exception to this is literally the only reason for your post, and I'll finish with that)
They spent 3 years deliberately altering the game balance from basically every direction to increase kill rates, and successfully. They've even gotten it to the point where, overall, SWF and solo are escaping at roughly the same abysmally low rate.
So, the only reason for this post to even exist is the only thing they haven't given killers back: gen kick meta levels of regression. It's all some people want is complete control of the game. They've given a metric ton of information, chase, and utility. And all people want is infinite time (or currently, 10 minutes of holding the game hostage).
So no. Not every change in the game requires some kind of compensation buff.
Exactly, not every change needs an equivalent on the other side. But that's what survivors have gotten every patch. You say that killers have been buffed every patch. I mean, maybe? But any reasonable rundown of said patch notes will be able to gage the killer changes as follows: "nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, buff, about the same, buff, nerf, nerf, nerf." Just look at Ghoul and Chucky. Their nerfs will a billion times more impactful than their buffs (if you can even call those buffs). There comes a point where you've made such a damaging change to a killer that no buffs, bar returning them to how they were, is gonna make them viable again. It's a joke and dream how they thought that Chucky's latest change would make him viable again, or that they still consider killers like Wraith or Freddy or Deathslinger overtuned.
And the "survivor nerf" changes you refer to really show how hard y'all are grasping at straws. "Deadzones." What maps have deadzones besides farm? Name 1. "Bloodlust." Oh, you mean the only thing that actually enables M1 killers to get hits sometimes, of which Bloodlust 3 isn't even enough at certain loops? "Gen tapping." You mean survivors actually have to work on gens for more than .0001 seconds to stop the regression? Crazy concept. And it's more than up for by the 8-kick limit, which survivors don't need in order to win. "Hooks respawning." You mean the thing that made zero sense from any balance perspective, and was just there to screw over killers? And it's not even gone. I'd say they didn't go far enough, making the hooks respawn after a minute. They shouldn't be destroyed at all, because now you're just punished for downing too fast. "I should've had a hook here, but now the next one isn't for miles. Guess I need to drop them and let them get picked up/crawl out the exit for free."
I've also always found the invention of the term "gen kick meta" hilarious, because it directly implies that killers going around the map kicking generators (a basic mechanic which they're supposed to do) is too much for the survivors to handle. Seems pretty disrespectful to survivor players. Yes, the killer isn't just kicking gens; they're getting a hit every now and then too. But they're not getting any real chases in until all the gens are kicked, basically the greatest gift of momentum the killer could ever give to the survivors. If you, as a team of 4, take 45 seconds to get back to a gen that's been kicked, then of course that seems like a daunting strategy to overcome. But those people would have no right to complain that they couldn't play any better. And that's what this whole thing is about. It's about making it to where baby survivors, who can't handle basic gameplay elements like killers chasing them OR kicking gens, can beat (or have a really close match with) any level of killer, turning the game into a killer bullying simulator at mid-high level, because they actually understand how to abuse that imbalance.
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@WolfyWood said:
They say they will buff killers elsewhere but with how glacial balancing is in this game it's gonna' take at least 6+ months to see anything that will of course end up being hit or miss.
And they've said this before, due to popular request, and we went along with it for a few years. But I've seen nothing of the sort when it comes to killer buffs. Peanuts is what we got. People like to refer to 6.1.0 as the patch that ruined the game for survivors, but the only meaningful thing the killer has retained from that patch (because pretty much everything else buffed at the time has since been nerfed) is the slightly less sprint burst survivors get off being hit, so that they can't use a single hit to shift W and get from 1 end of the map to the other. But even then, you hit a survivor and it's like "Rocket boost to outer space! 20+ guaranteed seconds' lead on the killer!"
I don't think we're gonna see any great killer buffs like that in the next 6 months, or the 6 months after that. In fact, the devs recently said that killers have been pandered to enough, and that now it's time for survivors to get some attention. That's the biggest joke.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
He's a fun gimmicky macro killer. He is powerful with various tools but he also has powerful and frustrating counters. I think he struggles in the top tier and can have consistency issues, but he still has a lot going for him. My best winstreak as killer was with him when he released.(42)At the very least he's got an interesting addon set. He's got neat things in all colours.
I'm biased though as somebody who mained old Legion just for the killer Instinct. I love information. I also love elevation on this killer for thr skeletons
He was better then. Not by much, but at least all of his spells had the same timers.
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This is coming from a cynicist, so disregard or take it with a grain of salt. There's no point in being a perfect manager of your spells' timers. You just use them when they're available and fit your situation. And you can't actually see your spell menu while you're blinded, just a tip. Wouldn't be surprised if selecting them slowed you down a bit either.
The orb is used to counter magic items' effects and to find survivors across the map, so either use it in chase or to find distant survivors. And there's a small learning curve to how the orb actually travels; in the beginning I often aimed too high or too low.
The skeletons usually never get hits unless you spawn them point-blank on survivors, or if you manipulate the elevation at which you launch them (because that will take away the "just crouch" counterplay)(there's also an add-on that does this). You could also try to snipe with them, but that's just as dice-rolly.
The fly is used mostly for mobility. It can also be used as anti-loop or to cut people off, but I wouldn't put too much stock into that. It insta-cancels when you vault a pallet/window with it, but the survivors will either get to go through your body for free, or just use the really long cooldown you're stuck in to get another go-around at the loop anyway. And to me, it's not as much distance gained as it "feels like," with the audio/visual effects.
The mage hand is probably the most overrated of all. It's best to use the Haste add-on with it, because otherwise you don't even catch back up to the survivor at the loop when you use it; it's like you simply broke even on distance to them. If the survivor has magic boots (which gives THEM Haste when you use mage hand), definitely use the orb first, or else there's no point in using the hand. You ideally want to use mage hand to pick the pallet back up as a survivor is dropping it, so that they're recovering from the animation rather than full running at the start. But even then, whether you get caught on the lingering pallet hitbox or not, you usually don't get the survivor, and if anything you just allowed them to re-use that pallet, literally just wasting your time.
You can try whatever add-ons or perks, but it really doesn't make much a difference, except the pink add-on that makes hand destroy pallets, or the fly add-ons which makes fly feel much less janky. Or his trapped chest (or mimic) add-ons, because occasionally someone will miss a skill check and take damage.
But genuinely I don't know how people catch survivors with Vecna. He's all style, no substance. I'd almost recommend not learning him, because for me, playing him has felt like a big waste of time.
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No. Let's see what he can do: He can slow you down in chase about as good as Clown. He can place obvious dream pallets, which awake survivors can destroy, that can explode after a visible priming. He can teleport to survivors healing. Oh, and none of those things hinder awake survivors. And he can teleport to gens. Other than that he's an M1 killer. What's the problem here exactly?
I have to mention that people thought the same of Freddy's last rework, despite his snares being notoriously just as bad, his pallets being locked to add-ons, and him having add-ons that gave light slowdown. And he could fake teleporting, but it had a cooldown and didn't lead to damage unless he actually committed. Big deal. And they wanted that version of him nerfed as well, because they conflated the power of the killer itself with the power of the killer using 4 slowdowns with perfect luck (Ruin hidden all game). They called him S tier because of that, an M1. Make sure you're not making the same mistake.
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No. Look, I've used Unbound on Legion, similar to how I've used PWYF on him, just to get that extra bit of speed, because most times his base speed off Frenzy hits just isn't enough to get you to that next survivor, even with the speed add-on, even with Never Sleep Pills. But if anything, that's using an entire perk slot just to support the speed he needs, which he should have at base. And he got the quicker fatigue change because he needs help, because otherwise his fatigue guarantees that the survivors get to a safe spot, every time. It's not extremely short, just not as hideously long (same argument made for Ghoul's cooldowns). Like, y'all aren't seeing what we're seeing when we play AS these killers. Or you do play as them, and just go against survivors who don't know how to run tiles. But something's not lining up.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922131#Comment_3922131
It's because Ghoul has an auto-aim grab attack with a super long range, and the token cooldowns can help delay the grab attack hit if the survivor running from pallet to pallet.
The token cooldown isn't there just because the killer can dash. The token cooldown is specifically there to help counter Ghoul's grab attack.
You're still thinking in terms of preventing the initial injure, which is meant to be easy? My gosh. It's so hard to talk about balance with y'all because you're so far behind.
If that attack didn't have the auto-aim or the range, nobody would ever land that attack except for the top 0.1% of PC players. I want to play killers with functional powers, which I have control over more than the survivors do. Nobody wants to play a killer whose power is unable disabled all match, especially after basic interactions like breaking pallets.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922103#Comment_3922103
no, he's so bad without the haste there was a reason why he was so dependent on the soma family photo addon and everyone ran it.
2- it's an anti tunnel perk that you can't force on the killer it just helps you get distance when getting tunneled nothing wrong with that.
Babysitter is fine. They could've just let it alone.
But you're absolutely right. Singularity needs everything he can possibly get. Haste, Overclock duration, break/vault speed. He actually has nothing going for him otherwise. And no matter how good he is, EMPs will just disable his power all match, no skill required.
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@Jtflorencio said:
Buff: Brutal Streght —> 30%
Buff: Fire Up —> start with 1 tokenhttps://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3GNRTVJMBX21/image.png
Nerf: Blight & Wesker —> Cooldown after break pallet
( Why Kaneki yes but the others no? )Because it's a stupid change. You cannot punish killers by taking away their power just for breaking a pallet, something they have to do in pretty much every match. Imagine survivors not being able to heal for 10 seconds after they touched a gen "because that would be too unfair for the killer." There's a clear double standard here.
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@ad19970 said:
Good to see more Ghoul nerfs. I really hope this change is enough to make it so Ghoul doesn't get free hits after vaulting pallets in enraged mode anymore. But if it's not, I hope that the time to slide over pallets in enraged mode finally gets increased a bit.
That's just not true. He's never gotten free hits over pallets. The survivors were just bad with the movement, or it was a pallet where he could've just Bloodlusted them anyway. He doesn't need more nerfs. His current ones have just destroyed him. Absolutely destroyed him. But people will still complain because he still has the possibility of downing people.
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@Nicholas said:
This entire thread is what's wrong. The symptom is disconnecting, but what is the root cause? That's where the discussion should be. No game mechanic in the world can force people to play when they don't want to play. The real issue is the devs aren't trying to figure out WHY this happens! And it doesn't help when the community is determined to find ways to compel people to stay when they clearly don't want to. Make a survey on Survivor disconnects and find out why people do it. That's where you really begin to address the issue, not implementing ways to keep people in a trial they don't want to be in.
That's just entitlement, if you ask me. Those players aren't being "forced" to play. They chose to turn the game on, queue up for a match, of which they were willing to wait 5 minutes of queuing/loading for, and now they're screwing over the other 4 players who did the same thing, by disconnecting. Why? What could possibly justify that? In any normal game like CoD or Overwatch, a player can leave and be replaced by a new player within a minute. That's fine. But in DBD, whose matches have such low playercount (meaning each player is that much more fundamental to the match's function), and whose lacking that fill-in feature, you just can't do that, DC all willy-nilly.
I understand caring about why people DC, even though it's gonna be super objective and have lots of people saying it's a killer or survivor sided game. But you have to admit that a majority of people are just DC'ing out of entitlement. I've argued that more experienced players may have better reasoning for DC'ing, like "80% of the gen progress has been by me, and when I'm the only one to give decent chases, or I'm on hook, y'all don't progress any gens." Natural, that they would DC in that event. So for the good players, it's a problem with the matchmaking. Good players should not be put consistently with bad teammates, because that's what makes people not want to play solo. It's not even a normal instance of carrying your team. It's like you're an 8/10 and they're 3/10s.
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@Jadelysta said:
I wish they would look into WHY theres a "Go Next Epidemic" and make changes based on that. Nobody really knows exactly what is ahead for the go next prevention, but i know player counts will suffer on the survivor side even more than they are now.
Well, there's two reasons, and one is a little less unreasonable than the other.
One reason is that the survivors are just entitled, see a killer they don't like, and rage quit with no regard to their teammates. Those are the people who need to face the full brunt of the DC penalties, because they just want an easy match against an easy killer, and when they don't get that, they screw over the other 4 players' match.
The other reason is the people who actually try to win a match against a killer, but it's always just them. They're the first to the first gen, and probably the first to do the second and third as well, and probably the only one to give the killer a decent chase. The killer can usually go on as long a chase against this person as they want, and eventually get them for no lost pressure, because they're confident the other survivors just won't do the gens. In that instance, I feel for that survivor, and am not shocked when they DC.
So the difference between impulse rage quitters and those who show a little more restraint is that the latter actually gives it their best before they decide to up and quit. If they're gonna try their heart out just to get punished with a loss, because their teammates refuse to do anything, of course they're gonna DC. It's not to say that they shouldn't get the DC penalty as well. But it is to say that matchmaking needs to be fixed. Stop putting really good survivors against baby killers and forcing them to still lose by giving them God awful teammates. That's all you have to do: fix the MMR system.
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@LockerLurk said:
Ban them. It's unfair, unfun, and sweaty to tilt maps in your favor, I don't care what side is doing it, in the fun chaos mode. Map offerings should not be allowed in Chaos Shuffle period.
That is all. That's the whole post.You can't. And I was gonna suggest banning its use by SWF, but that doesn't seem fair either (I think), and it doesn't solve killers bringing them (Hag with Midwich, or Scratched Mirror on Lery's). I guess the best thing to do would be to balance the maps.
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@Mr_Digi said:
I does not do anything. you can be on hook and have a heartbeat and it just doesnt move, because the killer is now standing 10 meters away camping you instead of 2 meters.
i feel like the anti camp thing would be better if it stopped the hook progress if the killer was to close, instead of letting people jump off. that would help more giving more time for a risky save. one never gets to jump off anyways. and atleast have the anticamp range be the entire terror radius?
it is a useless mechanic at the moment. so it either need a change, or it can altogether be removed.
This is my opinion, feel free to share yours. Do you think it serves its purpose, or does it need something, and if so, what?I got myself a free self-unhook from it just the other day. If the killer is standing near, it should be going up. So all your teammates have to do is stay far enough away to not effect. That's all they need to do, either stay away or be prepared to hook trade. The teams who complain about this mechanic not doing anything are the ones who get off all their gens, get just close enough to the hook to slow or stop the anti-camp, and then don't go for the save, or hook trade only after their teammate has hit second stage.
The mechanic isn't even necessary anyway, just another survivor handholding mechanic, except in the case of Hillbilly, Leatherface, and Myers, and even then it deactivates at the end. It doesn't even solve the problem it supposedly prevents, just punishes killers who happen to activate the free unhook by accident, like Trapper setting traps near hook.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I guess if I’m looking at it from the perspective of people who enjoyed playing pre-nerf Skull Merchant, yeah the nerfs were frustrating. But SM was also boring and annoying AF to play against on the survivor side, and you need to realize that this sentiment was widespread, not just a small minority of players.
Just because a majority felt that way doesn't make them right. What's annoying is subjective. I had no problem "enduring" a Skull Merchant match (as some would call it), because I knew all I had to do was disable a drone, undo a regression event, rinse and repeat until she couldn't kick the gens anymore. I've played so many matches against her where if someone hadn't DC'd at the start, or if they'd held on for another minute or two once her gens were close to getting blocked, we would have won, without a doubt. So they think she's OP, for their own lack of trying.
If there's 4 survivors left, it's pretty much inexcusable not to beat her in that position. At that point, you're telling me that the killer's in 4 places at once, because you "can't make any progress." Same with thing with before the 8-kick limit was introduced: 4 survivors should win the war of attrition by default. I've seen Skull Merchants who either got a 3-gen, and didn't even have to try to create it because the survivors just don't pay attention to the gens I guess (their only objective), or who had crazy gen splits against them and were still able to patrol it because only 1 of the 4 survivors was actually a threat against her (as in actually pressuring gens), which oftentimes happened to be me. I feel so honored when that happens. 🤦♀️
All this to say I don't think she required much to beat. You had to use strategy, teamwork, and the fact that there's 4 of you and 1 of her. But I guess people who utilize none of those things should be able to beat any killer at any level of play, right?
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@daikaimon said:
Yeah, well, the title is half a joke.
I would be lying if I said she didn't once have problems herself.
My point is that too many nerfs to SM have led to an increase in some toxic survivors.
As you can see from actual gameplay and this forum, she still gets hate from some survivors. Even though she has been nerfed numerous times and is now about D-tier, they still seem to have a hard time forgiving her.
BHVR continued to go along with their hate. They have nerfed SM many times and then again she is about to be reworked. The reworking itself is also a mixed bag.
And because of these actions by BHVR, some toxic survivors have chosen to just keep complaining and wait for the killer to be nerfed rather than try and do something about it. They will continue to do the same thing every time a killer they don't like in the slightest is added.
I blame BHVR for overreacting to their whining, but the childish whining of some of the survivors is just too much to watch.
This is just my opinion, and I am sure there are many negative opinions. However, this is my honest opinion.
I don't see a correlation between Skull Merchant's nerf and toxic survivors, other than the fact that they probably feel legitimized by their complaints about her being caved to.
There's always going to be hate for her, because some people just don't follow the games that they play, like at all, to where they still think that she's the way now that she was when she first released. I'm not even kidding.
But you have drawn the right connection. Skull Merchant, more than any other killer before her, showed the community what they could get away with. "Instead of getting good at the game, we can just complain about a killer and then not have to deal with them anymore!" It started with Freddy way back when, and now still continues, the most recent victim being Ghoul. They did it a crap ton with Spirit, hence her nerfs. And they'll do it to really subpar killers too; Neither Wraith nor Clown nor Pinhead have escaped it.
And BHVR most definitely overreacts, because they don't understand the ripple effect. The ripple effect is changing 1 thing about a killer, perk, whatever, and seeing how it affects balance. For example, nerfing/changing 1 thing about Skull Merchant, like the mark duration or the Haste duration, would've had a profound impact on her performance. Instead, they nerfed like 5 things. She doesn't even have 2 scan lines per drone now. Same with Ghoul, where instead of nerfing 1 thing, maybe his cooldowns, and watching him drop a tier and have that whole area of the tier list get potentially shuffled around, they nerfed like everything about him. Now, we can't even see what each nerf did, because they all came in a package. We can't tell if one was needed and another wasn't. We just know those killers are destroyed. That's the huge risk in not waiting for the ripple effect to transpire.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920544#Comment_3920544
I don't understand Shoulder The Burden in regards to 12 hooking or to help mitigate tunneling. -> this is like comparing it to Second Wind (helps being tunneled if you can outlast the broken status) - I've seen you or @NarkoTri1er complain about this perk.
Same for For The People, I can unhook someone, see the killer coming, and transfer my health state to them - same concept.
You already get told that someone StB, it shows a permanent hook tally on the person, and the person is exposed? Why not return back to hook, down the exposed person (sure, they might use Vigil to reduce the exposed lol) - why not take the free down and get the StB person on hook? They're death hook now, why so fixated on the recent unhooked injured person? StB is a high risk, high reward perk and having the idea that because you've downed someone, I get to tunnel, it doesn't mean you should get a free down and easier game.
@danielmaster87 / my edit : - 90 second hook timers became a thing when they increased gen times, but for some reason Behavior took a long time to do this change. It's ten extra seconds, if you would prefer we can go back to the regular gen and hook stage time limits, but I assure you that you do not want that — do not be disingenuous.
Shoulder The Burden obviously mitigates tunneling by giving an extra hook state to the person you were trying to tunnel. You realize that tunneling with 3 hooks is barely viable, especially since people can come in for body blocks or are free to rush gens unpressured at any time. I know tunneling is still too much for casuals (because they're not playing competitively, let alone doing gens or playing smart), but against good survivors, that's how matches go. Now imagine what they could do with 4 hook states. And that takes away a hook states from 1 person to do, but does that really hurt the survivors? No, because you need another hook to kill the person you were tunneling (1 more use of OTR/DH), or if you want to go for the unhooker instead, now you're spreading hooks which isn't viable. I forget that STB even has the Exposed negative to the survivor, because it always happens across the map, and the timer is so short you'll never get to them in time. Survivors know how to play safe or hide when they're Exposed; you don't simply go back to hook after they use the perk and get a free down. I disagree with NarkoTri1er on it forcing 12-hooking, but not on it forcing hook spreading. And of course, the STB hook mark means little when individual survivor hooks are intentionally hidden from killer players, forcing people like me to count hooks with coins irl (which is sad).
Second Wind, I only complain about because it's another off-the-hook activated thing and is a pseudo- instaheal. I don't place it as a meta perk or anything. But if (not when) the survivor meta ever gets nerfed, and they're complaining about none of their new meta options being good, there's a good perk for them.
I disagree with the devs on increasing the hook timer just because the gen times were increased. They were both increased by the same amount of seconds, but that doesn't mean equal, because they're 2 different things and their starting total was different as well. Everybody knew that gen speeds were out of control before the +10 seconds change, because they STILL are out of control. So all the +10 seconds on hook does is give more time for survivors to rush gens before having to save a teammate. Before the change, they could hook trade at the last second, repeatedly, and that would be a net positive for them compared to what the killer was getting. You got a free hook trade. So what? They can keep doing that, and they're never gonna send in the death hook person to do it, so you're giving them a free ≤8-hook game where none of the survivors die.
And it's not being disingenuous. BHVR took a long time to do the change, because they were indecisive, because they knew they shouldn't do it. And they still have you duped, thinking that balance is just a matter of keeping those 10+ seconds changes in line with one another or not at all. No, balance is stopping SWF from being a game breaking tool, because you can't balance for them and solos at the same time, currently. And if touching base times/balance leads to disaster every time, then the last solution to be ruled out (which hasn't been done once in this game's history) is nerfing SWF directly, through decreased gen efficiency or something. It's the only reasonable solution that we haven't tried yet.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
Shoulder the Burden - forces 12-hooking
Deliverance - easily denying hook pressure for killer
Dead Hard - a goated perk even against S-tiers
OTR - tank hits for your teammates to correct their pathing
DS - severely underrated perk which easily forces lose-lose situations + easily forced by jumping into a locker
honorable mention:
Reassurance - one of the best perks in the entire game that is not only anticamp, but also has more absolutely good uses people are not aware abou
Yeah, 90+ second hook states absolutely destroy you. The game operates on the assumption of 60-second hook states, which we don't even have anymore. They can literally greed gens for so long, and then still get the save. And it benefits especially SWF, because they all know to capitalize on it to the max.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920424#Comment_3920424
sorry but your comment as a whole is completely wrong understanding of macro and micro managing of mentioned perks.
Doesn't do this at all, even if the killer doesn't understand the first thing about this perk (like you don't). StB telegraphs that is in play and can only be used once per survivor. If perfectly executed, and every survivor brings this perk, you get a free exposed down (half a chase) on everyone but the first, and it can only be used 4 times total. And the survivor using it screams at you that they have it.
it literally does force 12-hooking because it makes early tunneling (also the only viable way of tunneling and ONLY IF there is a chain of mistakes made by survivors) completely useless. You don't need every survivor to bring the perk to get a massive value out of it, but i guess average player doesn't unserstand how to use selfless perks.
I won't deny that deliverance could be good if RNG is working in your favor. But if even one teammate doesn't know you have it (which isn't base kit) or you get hooked first, it's a dead perk slot. Survivors do not choose who is chased or hooked.
on actual high level of gameplay, if you make a mistake of being the first one chased, your teammate will take the chase in order to make you not waste Deli slot. And survivors can definitely choose who will be chased and hooked lol.
Both of these are hard countered by hitting the survivor off hook. Dead hard is two uses per game, ever.
bro OTR endurance is lost by hitting a survivor right off the hook ONLY IF survivor is unhooked in killer's face, which is absolutely the worst move you can make unless you were already greeding the hook against camping killer.
DH is two uses per game (and more with StB) and even with two uses it's very powerful lol.
DS is one of the most easily telegraphed perks in the game. If you're picking up a survivor who isn't on gens and running at your face, that is entirely you not reading the situation. Even lockers, you can walk away and let them reconsider their life choices. DS only works for 60 seconds, and it's entirely avoidable by the killer. The only time this should ever trigger is if you're actually tunneling (which is exactly what it's for), or if you walk into it face first because you have the game sense of a fence post.
"even lockers, you can walk away"...dude that is the point, you get indirect value off DS by making killer leave you, you literally forced them into a lose-lose situation by making them have to either leave you or take the stun.
DS literally works very well even at high skill levels because even if you down a DS carrier bodyblocking for their teammate, they will usually have UB or another perk to pick themselves up (or teammate can do it) which means you literally got value out of it.
Can we stop acting like only value of DS is when you actually stun the killer picks you up? Because that's a pure proof of bad understanding of the perk.
It could be good if it actually deterred camping, but since this perk is nearly 2 years old now and was gutted from ptb before it even hit live, this perk is so rarely useful is hilarious. They've had to add anti hook grab, AFC, and even have planned an upcoming "anti camp feature" because nothing they've done (including reassurance) is meaningful against camping.
lol? They added hook grabs removal for other reasons, anti-facecamp meter for...facecamping and they planned another anticamp feature because they care more about further buffing surv role and giving more power to it overall by making skill of average player just deteriorate even further.
And saying Reassurance is overall bad? One thing, first of all +10s to hook timer is one of the great ways you could see how it is powerful, not only against campers, but in many other scenarios too, because hook greeding is not only powerful in case of camping killers. It just takes a bit of deeper intensity of game knowledge to understand the massive power this perk holds lol.
You might as well give up. If people can't understand how locker DS is a lose-lose, or how STB isn't a guaranteed down and does (maybe not force 12-hooking but) make tunneling not work (because you're hooking 1 person 4+ times), there's no point in wasting breath.
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@buggybug said:
Dead hard = can only use 2 times or rather just 1 time so rubbish and I say so cause if the killer knows you have it once you use it its a wasted perk slot
Flashbang = not even gonna explain how worthless this got please see previous patch notes so almost no one running this perk
Object = if your not the obsession its a fair perk where if the killer has any aura reveal they see you and you see them but they won't see you evey 30 seconds. However if you are the obsession killer see you more and vs a stealth killer gg you made the game way easier for them so that makes the perk rubbish in the end.
Innovations= Trap newb perk that only tells the killer here come tunnel me. 60 seconds that could be spent on a gen along with tool boxes and many better gen speed perks eith 0 downsides makes me wonder if someone was bored and really just say hey take this.
Desperate Measues = I dont use it but I know its a solid perk.
If Dead Hard is so bad, why do all the good survivors still run it? Flashbang is balanced now, just can't go through the killer's body/walls. I prefer to be the obsession when I run Object; it is SO not a bad perk, unless you've already lost anyway. Invocations aren't so black and white, as one is a BNP on every gen on-map, and the other is wall hacks against any nearby killer (unless there's like zero crows around), but yeah there's probably better stuff to run. And Desperate Measures, agreed that it's a strong perk, because besides the healing speed (which affects self-heals too) it also increases unhooking speed which catches killers off-guard.
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@Shaped said:
Object of obsession is underrated.
Killers often have some kind of aura reading and it's not like stealth is an option in dbd anymore so it's actually value to see the killer often rather than not.
It's only an issue if you are the last surv/killer slugged but at that point there is a high chance you will die anyway.
I used it a lot the other day and got more value than I thought I would. I did run otr and ds most of the time but killers can tunnel you regardless of ooo. It's not something you aren't used to if you actually play surv enough.
I love using Object. Playing against it is whatever. But while other people were complaining about Distortion's nerf, I was enjoying Object (which is better in almost every way). See the killer every 30 seconds, and when they see you, plus an action speed boost. Yes please.
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Urban Evasion, Sole Survivor, Left Behind, No Mither, Clairvoyance. If you truly want the match to be fun for everyone, including the killers, make it easy for me and run bad perks like that.
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The only maps with low resources are farm maps sometimes (I concede). So I don't see how that's the problem. And there's not really ANY perks that can carry a killer at this point. If survivors all decide to get downed at the end because of NOED, I'd ask "Why'd you do that?" In order for a killer to make use of perks like that, or slowdown perks, they have to be giving quick chases and/or pressure. It seems like that's what killers are giving y'all, and you're saying, "They still shouldn't be able to win."
Fix the farm maps so they'll actually have more/better stuff to run to. But after that, what's to complain about?
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@pandorayr said:
I'm really looking forward to seeing more tactical matches.
Oh yeah, 2c8.
Hopefully those 2 killers get in there soon.
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919228#Comment_3919228
You still shouldn't need a perk to get a exit blocker kill. Cenobite doesn't need STBFL, and he gets alot of time to pick up survivors after downing them when they're chained
I didn't say you should need a perk, especially not a nerfed one like STBFL. It's just a possibility.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919755#Comment_3919755
honestly if I were to nerf him I would do these simple changes
- Breaking a pallet takes away 1 rush token. So like Ghoul you can’t just instantly dash
- Reduce the speed of rush from 230% to 200% OR make Blight 110% by default
- Slightly increase the cooldown when missing and when he injects himself
Any one of these changes would kill him. We need FAST, as killer. Number 1 Is the most destructive of the bunch, and should never have done to Ghoul. How are you gonna take away the player's ability just because they broke a pallet? Let's think of an equivalent. The survivor just healed, so now they do gens 30% slower for 7 seconds. "Why?" Because they did something that helps them last longer in chase (potentially), just like the killer breaking a pallet helps them get a hit faster (potentially) and so it gets punished. You see why it's not fair to punish people for doing normal gameplay? And if the killer having a mobility power is the problem, you might as well shut the servers down now, because that's a game-killing balance precedent to set. The killer's not allowed to be fast? This whole thing is ridiculous.
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He doesn't need a nerf. In fact, you could roll back 1 or 2. What needs to happen instead is other killers getting buffed to his level of strength. You want more variation? That's the way to do it.
What we have a lot of the time is people, like me, who don't want to play Nurse, Blight, or Spirit (because it gets boring), trying to play high level with other weaker killers. We've scoured through so much to keep them viable, using different add-ons, perks, builds, playstyles, strategies, and they just keep getting nerfed. Like, "Okay, that thing's dead. What's the next best? Oh, that got nerfed too. What's the next best? That one too. What's the next best?" Eventually that cycle goes on so long, that everything comes full circle. Killers and perks that we considered trash tier are now considered "decently strong," not because they've been buffed, but because everything around them has been nerfed. So despite the small general buffs killer has gotten, the nerfs have set the bar so low that killer is worse than it's ever been (objectively, looking at then vs now). I'll explain:
Pop used to do 25% of a gen, total, and now it does 20% of current. Engineer's Fang on Pinhead used to make the possessed chains easy injures on first hit, and anti-loop on the second, and now it's just the injure and a non-functional anti-loop. Hooking/tunneling used to be used for pressure, and now it activates survivors' Terminator modes (with all the perks like DS, DH, and We'll Make It). All of this stuff is a shadow of it's former self at best, and yet people still call it "really strong" if not "game breaking." I don't know how, but that's what they say.
The only thing Blight needs is speed add-ons partially base (freeing up 2 add-ons got reworks, and eliminating the speed variance problem), and equalization between console and PC turn rate (because PC turn rate trumps survivors' counterplay of getting a dead angle on him). If you just nerf him similar to what happened to Deathslinger or Ghoul, which takes away everything that makes the killer good, you'll suddenly see more people playing more Twins and Knight and Unknown. But that won't be because the game's in a balanced state, allowing that freedom of variability. It'll be because killers are forced to experiment for the next best thing, because everything strong has been nerfed and they don't know what's good anymore. That's the kind of forced variability you don't want.
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I won't go next, but I'll spectate after death if I was invested in the match.
Weird, that someone would rage quit and then watch the match. Like, "Guess what? You could've still been a part of that match!" It makes literally no sense, but then again, a lot of people who play this game don't.
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If all survivors are bots, why would the killer get a draw instead of a win?
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@WhoSoup said:
Very sad to see haste/hinder stacking stay. I was very much looking forward to this.
It's not a big deal anyway. But I wonder if they're going forward with the buffed Dark Theory and Unbound then.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919678#Comment_3919678
The #1 goal of the rework is to remove the “unfair hits” that survivors complained about.
All this talk of “making her less complicated” is just a distraction, to secretly hide the actual purpose of the rework.
Which, she didn't get any. What unfair hits? Because she's stealthed sometimes, and had Haste sometimes, similar to Bloodlust I? I thought people's biggest problem was with her 3-genning (an issue that solves itself, because of the gen kick limit)? But you're right, that we don't know how this rework is going to be, or who it's made for.
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@Crowman said:
Honestly I don't even think current SM is that convoluted. You can see the areas her drones are watching and they turn white if you crouch from orange which is a signal they won't detect you. Survivors see they are hindered and they have the potrait UI to show how many stacks they have for the claw trap.
I believe the only reason she's even considered convoluted is that many survivors simply refuse to even try in the first place and changing a killer completely because a bunch of people can't be adults in an M rated game is not a good sign for the future.
No, it's not a good sign. In fact, I'm surprised the game has lasted this long with that kind of game balance scheme.
There was someone I argued with a while back, with me explaining that Skull Merchant isn't so crazy complicated, and them arguing that she's the only killer in the game whose design was super cryptic. Strange, coming from someone who seemed experienced at the game. But it just goes to show that their voice was pretty much the only experienced one agreeing that she was too complicated to understand. Nobody who puts even the bare minimum into learning about her is confused about her design. You'd have more information to process trying to learn Sadako, or Singularity, or Pinhead. It's literally just playing as her, playing against her, reading her power description, or looking up gameplay of her. Any one of those things will tell you what she's about. When the new Skull Merchant gets here, we'll be able to do the same thing.
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Valid, I suppose. I don't see why the remaining bots shouldn't try to 4%. But I think we can agree the 4% off the hook mechanic (when it actually matters) is quite annoying, and would be better scrapped. In which case, this scenario we just discussed couldn't happen. Or... maybe it would be simpler if they let you mori any survivor if all that's left are bots. Seems smart to me.
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She's not so complex that it takes a scientist to understand her, the old version of the upcoming new one. Saying that she is would be either insulting and patronizing to players, or revealing how low the bar has been set on what players are to understand to play the game. I mean, at that point, Wraith could be considered too complex a killer, like "What? He can only attack or pick up while out of cloak, and uncloaking requires ringing the bell and slowing down? And when he does that, he gets a speed boost/longer lunge? And he can be 'light burned' with a flashlight (old)? What is all this?" It seems like a mouthful spelling it all out, but we all know he's easy to understand. I argue it's the same with Skull Merchant. You just need to understand how her drones and scanning works, and counterplay.
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It's not gonna be enough for me to play him. I still don't like the entire mechanic, of being revealed by the survivors and losing access to your power. The whole point of playing killers is to use their power! But I'm glad if he's a bit more enjoyable for those who enjoy him.
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I really don't like the repair speed catch-up/slowdown idea. It feels like it's forcing an outcome, or forcing gameplay.
I'm surprised no mention of the other eye symbol, where it shows you as a survivor when the killer is seeing your aura. I think a lot of survivors would like that. And since good survivors play as if they've got wall hacks anyway, I wouldn't mind it coming to the regular game.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919105#Comment_3919105
They said they were going to put in a button to allow us to spend bp in a bulk way, but I don't know how much. There was 0 details on this. I wish a Dev would kindly give us a little insight into this. I hope there are more features with it too. That would be awesome personally.
Save up max BP, power level a character instantly.
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It's supposed to be a fun twist. The killers and survivors get randomized perks. That has no bearing on their playstyle. If they choose to tunnel or camp, so be it.
It doesn't help the sometimes you get No Mither/Self-Care as survivor, which I think the devs do on purpose to be funny. Hopefully they've patched that out this time. It's just annoying having random junk and then your opponent randomly gets godlike perks. The competitiveness in us coming out, I guess.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919040#Comment_3919040
How do you have 10k comments on this forum and you can't a) comprehend another player's perspective and b) take a minute to scroll through my post history before making blanket statements like "no wonder you consider killer OP?" …or better yet, not draw such unfounded conclusions?
L-take from you, sadly.No, I don't think it is an L take. Nothing wrong with my comprehension either, and your history is none of my concern. You had responded to 3 people who were informing others of ways to not get downed in 30 seconds. And what you said didn't disprove what they said, just gave an extreme scenario. What you're saying the killer can do in any given match lines up exactly with the opinions of people who call them OP. "The killer can simply slap on Lethal Pursuer and just take everyone out in 30 seconds." Really? Because I've never pulled that off. Have you? Of course not, because the best killer players in the world couldn't do that.
I see what you mean about survivors having things go wrong, but they can recover from that. Oftentimes they have to make several such blunders to come close to losing. And I see what you mean about them not taking the advice that's been given these past few years, but that doesn't excuse how they play, and it certainly doesn't prompt a correction in killer strength. Like, how is any of that the killer's fault? And if you're not saying that, then what are you saying?
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@ImWinston said:
- in theory DBD is a game about a killer killing survivors, not about defending generators. if in 10 minutes no hooks happen and no generators are completed, it should be a loss for the killer (my opinion). in 10 minutes 80% of pallets are gone so the killer has no excuses for not getting hooks (aka kill)
Oh, you'd be surprised. The reason 80% of pallets have been used is because the survivors have used them to keep themselves alive. I don't think your logic on that match state leads you to the right conclusion.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
Garden Of Joy ain't as bad as a lot make out, the house certainly needs toned down a bit particularly the windows and then the car park up the far corner too. Other than that tho it's ok.
No, it's crazy broken. Just non-stop good loops into filler pallets.
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@francesinhalover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919246#Comment_3919246
100h.. maybe a bit more? mostly with legion. I also watch my boyfriend play killer
If i play killer i'm way too nice tho, i suffer so much on solo q, so i hate giving other survivors a bad game. I do like when i find survivors that know how to play, especially ones that teabag >:3.
Okay. The killers you hate, because they're "sweating," want to win, not play nice. You can't use your playstyle as a basis for how killers should play, because you're going out of your way to not play your best. Trust me, if the game was balanced around killers doing that and still winning, we wouldn't have a game, because all the survivors would quit. It's better for it to be balanced around killers sweating, survivors sweating, and having an even match, which will trickle down to lower levels of play to where it's even but neither side is really sweating.
And 100 hours is not enough to understand the role, no offense, especially on Legion who gets the first hit easy. Killers like Freddy, Pig, Clown, etc who can basically just M1 people, they become useless at high level, as in not getting like 4 hooks max before the 5th Gen is done. Other stronger killers suffer that to a lesser extent, but it's still there, because there's physically nothing you can do vs a survivor team who does 5 gens in 4 minutes. Learning survivor is about trying to achieve that gen/time efficiency. Learning killer is about trying to slow that down enough to get kills, or end chases fast enough to get kills.
I can only assume that your boyfriend is more passionate about the killer role, and wants to become one of the sweaty killers. You could learn a lot from him. It's the thrill of the challenge, the experience of learning. The game is just too challenging on killer sometimes, imo.
I'm happy for you, not having an adverse reaction to the tbaggers. To me, it's unsportsmanlike and belittling. They're just being jerks for no reason. And many times they do it because they know you can't possibly get them, even though you're the killer and they're just 1 survivor. That's the frustration of the role right there. It's part of why killers go through such grueling training to become those sweaty killers you see now, because they don't want to be the butt of some joke every time they queue up. We'd say the same about killers BM'ing, too. No need for it. The danger is when people confuse gameplay with intention. All toxic killers tunnel, but not all tunnelers are doing it to be toxic.
I'm surprised to hear you say you enjoyed the blood moon event. Most survivors' first impressions were, "The blood gens take way too long, and loses too much progress from being kicked!" They're easy as pie. It's why I'm so annoyed that my teammates only got some of us out in like 1 out of every 12 matches. How does one even do that? But yes, going back to regular old DBD with its horrid MMR isn't exactly something to look forward to. The key is in fixing the matchmaking, so that your teammates and your killer are of the same level, the same experience, instead of a really sweaty killer and teammates who don't do anything. A fix to that will bring enjoyment back to the game.
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@SeriousRain said:
Vecna is Dracula 0.5. Less mobility, less lethality, less chase power than him. They are both the same type of killer (mix bag of abilities that have everything from something).
He has no map presence whatsoever. Despite all the stuff he can do, survivors will be spinning/moonwalking just out of range waiting to be chased. He's one of those killers, bullyable.
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@Aeiga said:
Considering the question, it is of no surprise that I’m someone who mains Vecna. I have plenty of hours into him and he is the first killer I committed to reaching prestige 100. But I have been having less fun with him simply because there is a way to invalidate 1/4 of his power almost 100% and I think one of his spells should be more effective.
Many players would tell you Vecna’s strongest spell is mage hand but if you played him for a long time you would find out that’s actually incorrect when you consider a way to invalidate. Mage hand is the spell a survivor can invalidate which makes his strongest spell Flight of The Damned. Yes, that means the easiest spell to dodge is his strongest. (It’s actually a little funny.)
I will explain some counters to Vecna’s mage hand before going over the “invalidation counter” (I just call it that).
The first is pre dropping from a distance. Vecna will never have enough time to reach you around a pallet if you pre drop from a good distance even when he picks it up with mage hand unless he has a haste or hinder perk to make up for it.
The second is quite literally hold W, sometimes a Vecna will anticipate a pallet drop and use mage hand at the wrong time which will give you time to make it around the loop and drop it if you have the magical item that gives you haste when mage hand is used you can play around pallets more risky because it increases your chances of making it around the loop but if the Vecna knows you have it they will also be more likely to disrespect pallets and anticipate the action.
The third counter is running as if you have the intention of going around a loop, then doubling back to drop it on Vecna. That is the most risky play with the highest payoff because two things could happen as a result, the Vecna tries to move back, using mage hand only to get stunned and waste it, or you simply just stun him but now you’re playing around a loop with an advantage since the pallet is already down and there is distance between the survivor and the killer.
Now, for the fourth counter no one happens to be talking about that i simply named the “invalidation counter”. I gave the counter this name because there is NOTHING (emphasis on nothing), a Vecna can do once a survivor does it and the counter allows them to be safe on every pallet. The counter is, when a survivor drops a pallet no matter the distance between them and the killer, when Vecna uses mage hand all the survivor has to do is step between the pallet, effectively blocking Vecna from passing through. You’d think, “They’d just get hit so that’s pointless.” But that isn’t the case. Vecna has a recovery time where he slows down a bit after using a spell but he also cannot swing during the recovery. That’s why when a survivor blocks the pallet as it’s lifted by mage hand, the hand doesn’t linger enough for Vecna to swing in time and Vecna’s recovery is too long to get a hit.
I will repeat that a survivor can do this on every pallet. That’s why if a survivor drops or multiple are aware of this they can invalidate a fourth of your abilities and all you have is one other chase spell that is easy to dodge but still has some value if used right such as spawning it on a survivor, correctly zoning with it, or casting it on elevation.
There’s a way to fix this “invalidation counter” which is simply to allow the mage hand pallet lift to linger for a second and to give Vecna the option to swing during his recovery time.
I have not been playing Vecna and instead moved to playing other killers but I been hoping that counter would get fixed with every patch but I finally decided to start talking about it here after putting up with it for so long because the counter punishes you for making the right decision and you suffer a 40 second cooldown and possibly a stun as a result if you try to hope that the survivor somehow messed up blocking the pallet which I should note that the chances of them messing it up is next to zero.
The other only slight problem I have with Vecna is that I feel that his Flight of The Damned spreads out too fast when you cast it and I think the spread should happen later and slower but Flight of The Damned isn’t the main topic so that’s all I have to say.
I really do hope this sparks a discussion or a dev can confirm there is a fix on the way for this “invalidation counter” because I would love to get back into playing Vecna consistently again.
All of his abilities are garbage. I feel completely powerless playing as him. His mage hand especially. You lift/hold the pallet to get them, but the delay especially in lifting the pallet is so much, they just get around anyway. Even without the magic boots. Even with the Haste add-on for mage hand. I legitimately don't understand how people get survivors at loops thanks to mage hand. It feels similar to Wesker or Kaneki vaulting over stuff, where it doesn't actually advance your position in relation to the survivors. It's kind of just breaking even on distance.
His skeletons I think are his best. But unless the survivors let you point-blank skeleton hit them, that ability doesn't do anything either.
Fly is cool for mobility, but I feel it's not actually as much distance as the sound/visual effect would have you believe. Feels kind of deceptive. And we could have had it to where he could fly through survivors to block them, like Ghoul can do now, but no. The devs changed that so that you can't even get around body blocking survivors. And you can vault windows with it, but it then insta-cancels, and the survivors can vault through you most of the time. The cooldown of coming out of his fly, in any event, just lets the survivors get away. It's why people call Ghoul's cooldowns OP, because they're used to killers being basically immobile for multiple seconds after using their mobility move.
His orb/sphere is alright, but all it's there to do is counter the stupid magic items, which in turn has its own counter as one of the items. Magic items give survivors a completely unnecessary advantage vs this killer. I get that it was put in to keep his power in check, but after his nerfs, they basically serve no purpose but to make him more bullyable. I hate this concept of items given to the survivors that are free counterplay to the killer's power, like Singularity and Xenomorph.
So what you've got is a killer who can do all these flashy things, but is absolutely toothless. The fact that he has multiple abilities doesn't make him stronger than the average killer, and that should be shocking. Imagine Doctor with like 2-3 other abilities. He'd probably be a threat. But this guy, Vecna? He's a chump. A survivors' plaything.
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I think you're able to get them barely if you use 8x STBFL.
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I don't know why DBD is. It's a garbage game. Right? You get survivors as killer who can 1v1 you after getting hit by your power over and over, and when you switch to survivor nobody knows what they're doing. You HAVE to fix the matchmaking. It's tied to the horrible balance, too. You can't balance off anything if everything is just random.
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You just can't do stuff like this. You can't stop people from bringing certain perks together, nor items, nor killer/survivor - map combinations, etc. You're taking away literal gameplay. And that recent Ghoul change where he loses his power for breaking pallets is in the same vein. You can't make exceptions to limiting gameplay. It's a horrible precedent.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917660#Comment_3917660
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917684#Comment_3917684
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918229#Comment_3918229
This is all just willful ignorance.
Not hard to understand how any decent killer running Lethal Pursuer can force a survivor to misplay, effectively winning in the first 30 seconds. There is more than one way to play the game and, regardless of what you believe the optimal strategy is, survivors will never agree on the "right way to play."
A strong counterpoint can be made against all three of your "objectively correct ways to play" which goes to show just how many opportunities there are for something to go wrong for Survivors.
…not to mention what a rediculous statement @TwinsMain2004 made with "i don't understand this camp and tunnel at 5 gens thing…" You either have all of 5 hours in Dead by Daylight or you're oblivious to objective reality. Regardless of how it happens, Survivors frequently find themselves camped and tunneled at 5 gens and no amount of "get good" or practical advice has managed to change that in the past 8 years.What mental gymnastics are these? The killer can force a survivor to misplay? With that mentality, no wonder you consider killer OP.
And we really don't understand the tunnel/camp at 5 gens thing, because that's at such a lower level than what we're used to, we can't even conceive it. You have to understand, our survivors literally never allow that. Not even close. So the survivor who ALL go down that quick, I don't have words of advice for them, because it's not even like they're just noobs. It's like they have negative gameplay, negative experience, like they do the worst things they can possibly do, or they're doing literally nothing. And I get those teammates sometimes as survivor. Like, "Why is it when I get hooked, all 3 of you are just crouched or walking around?" And they do that. All match long. Obviously one and the same as those who get 4-man/5-gen'd.