danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912921#Comment_3912921
His spell menu is clunky as hell on controller. BHVR could just bind each spell to one of the four directions on the directional pad, they line up perfectly, but instead his spell menu is optimized for a M&K. That alone is reason enough not to play him on console.
I'm sad I don't see him much, I love spamming the mimic chest and testing out my skills. (And I need the practice, especially on Switch. It's hard hitting those things with crazy input lag, especially at like 15fps.)
VERY clunky on controller. I also hate how when you get blinded, it stops you from seeing your spell menu as well. He's just not a well designed killer. He can do a lot of cool stuff, but that doesn't equate to being strong.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912939#Comment_3912939
This is one of my biggest gripes with the game. Like I vividly remembered when Machine Learning was reworked and it was for a short time really strong - well, not really strong, but you now only had to kick a gen once and if THAT compromised gen got finished, you could zoom over the map with +10% speed for a whole minute. It was stupidly fun, especially if combined with Batteries Included and Rapid Brutality.
During the zoomer moment of course the game was unbalanced and I could brute force literally any loop in the game, besides god pallets, obviously, but even though I played that combo exclusively for a couple of days, it never activated three times in one game, it happend a maximum of 2 two times and I had literally no control over it happening at all, as especially at the last 2 gens the survivors would often focus down the wrong gen.
So I had a combo that was stupidly strong and fun when it worked, but it was literally my whole build and would only activate one time, possibly two times, in one match, with the moving parts like Batteries Included still out of my hands and potentially dead perks.
But still, even though it was already niche at that point, Machine Learning was nerfed again and had its uptime reduced to 45s. It might not sound like much, but with all perks already accounted for, there was little to find survivors and that missing 15s very much meant that the whole combo was only good for one chase and then some.
All this talk was just to highlight, the fact, that niche builds always had a tough time in DBD and the meta was solidified and fossilized in stone for a reason: because it worked nearly all the time and gave value nearly every chase.
BUT this change is also an opportunity, as BHVR could now go all out with some of this niche perks and make them extremely impactful, for when they activate, without needing a whole bunch of other perks to stack. If Machine Learning, for example, gave +15% on its own, that would still allow this playstyle, but also free up the three other perk slots for anything I desired. This is HUUUGE. The problem is just to sell this to the other survivors, ie that a +15% Machine learning that activated a max of two times per match was still better, then the same old PainRes/Pop/NowhereToHide combo that every killer was otherwise running.
If BHVR plays this right, we could outsource the necessary perk stacking of a build and allow niche perks to be viable with one single perk, thus enabling a place in a players loadout much more often
They'll never allow that. They'll do it for the survivor side, as we already see Dark Theory getting buffed, but they won't do it for the killer side, except for Unbound which probably nobody but me is going to try out anyway. Their recent history shows their priority hasn't been making both sides balanced. It's just whoever complains the most/the loudest, which is always survivors, that's what gets buffed nerfed, what they want. And like I said, or rather quoted someone else, the variations in speed that you can't see with the untrained eye is probably bad design for this game. It's why I want all killers to be 115% speed and fix the loops, or make killer 120%. At best, they're using these Haste perks as a band-aid fix for the game's problems. They hate killers having stuff that survivors complain about, no matter how weak or obscure it is. Just look at hex Demogorgon. Literally everybody was playing that, right? Sometimes they just nerf random stuff which nobody complained about, like this recent Pentimento thing. That, or they just don't like killers having fun.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913014#Comment_3913014
That's because killers have multiple versions of equally powerful perks that do the same thing (gen regression) while survivors have only had 2 marginally effective anti-tunnel perks for the game's existence. Survivors have had a grand total of 2 strong perks added since Zarina and both were heavily nerfed. Meanwhile just from the top 20 nightlight most used perks there i see Pain Res, Lethal, Nowhere To Hide, Grim Embrace, Friends Till The End, and Deadlock. You frame this as if the devs are "shaking up the meta" when in reality, they're power creeping old killer perks hard while keeping survivor perks the same or worse.
Just because killers have equally powerful perks, which is false, that doesn't mean the anti-tunnel perks aren't effective. They're always effective, because they're either deterring or punishing tunneling. Their existence has out-of-match influence on how the killer plays, leading to a marked decrease in tunneling. Even if no survivors have DS or OTR, the killer is afraid of them and so he doesn't tunnel a lot of the time when he should. None of the killer perks you mentioned are very good. Those are the top perks? Yeah, I don't doubt it, only because playing with much worse than those perks is shooting yourself in the foot. All of those "meta perks" have to all be combined with one another to be effective, and they take a lot of work or luck to activate.
Pain Res is locked to 1 use per survivor, so no matter what the regression amount (unless they change it to something crazy like 50%+, which they'd never do), the perk kills itself after basically 1 use. Same thing with Lethal. It doesn't do anything but show survivors for a few seconds at the very beginning, unless you combo it with other aura perks, which is more perk slot investment. Nowhere to hide does basically nothing, unless a survivor is crouched near the gen for some reason instead of holding W when the killer comes to kick it. Grim is 1 use per person, and then the super blockage. Though not really, because you don't get 4 uses of the regular blockage and then 1 of the longer one. That last one is in place of a 4th use, and if the obsession is the last one you hooked, you get robbed of the aura reading. And what do survivors do during the blockage of Grim or Deadlock? Reset for free, because they can't do the gen, which works to good survivors' advantage because they don't heal to push gens anyway. And Friends Til The End, what the heck is that? I've used it like twice, because the survivors always get away before that measly little Exposed timer expires.
The devs see what they've been doing as good, simply because killers are experimenting more than ever. But like I said, the reason killers are doing that is because they're in scrambles and looking to find something good. Those gen defence perks you mentioned are what people fall back on because historically that's what's always been good, and they're too stubborn to drop them, or they face bad survivors all the time so the perks work anyway. I was using Pain Res/Grim a while back myself, but against the teams that did 5 gens in 4 hooks, it didn't do anything. So how could it be strong? Stuff that only stomps noobs isn't strong or meta; that's an oxymoron.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912944#Comment_3912944
'At least haste stacking on killer advances the match!'
😭😭😭😭
Am I wrong on that? Please explain.
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@starfall25 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912917#Comment_3912917
Let me guess, you just want all survivors to stand still while you down them all? At least that is what i read from this. Chases are not fun because you cant catch anyone (though killers do that all the time). So for you to actually have fun, the survivors need to be walking around looping points? Would that work for you?
No. Strawman. People want interactive gameplay, right? I want it for both sides. I don't like survivors having check spots or hold W spots that guarantee 20-40 seconds of wasted killer time. People want chases to be fun, but where's the hype for them if 1) the survivor always gets to simply react to whatever the killer can do and extend the chase, and 2) if the killer only has time do like 5 chases before the gens are all done? Survivor is a super abusable role with all the stuff at their disposal. You just might not see that because the MMR system screws up your chances of being put on a good team, while it simultaneously ensures that the killer you're going against is always better than the average player on your team. So swf eats good, and everyone else pays.
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@Rogue11 said:
Weird how as they have added more and more perks, builds have become more and more homogenous. I don't like this direction.
Because nothing has even come to close to stuff like DS, DH, OTR, etc on the survivor end. In fact, somehow those perks are considered bad, and anything weaker than them are considered super bad. On the killer end, you see way more variety than ever before, because people don't know what's good on killer anymore. The devs have literally kept the survivor meta the same for 7-8 years, and the killer meta is constantly changing because every time a new one arrives it gets nerfed.
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@flourdough said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912917#Comment_3912917
The lack of perk variety stops me from playing Dead by Daylight.
There would actually be so many different strategies and builds and playstyles killers could be using right now. But the devs nerfed so much, they funneled the players who wanted to get good with killer into playing the same way, because all their options were taken away.
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A brand new killer being played in 1 of 5 matches isn't that surprising, even though most seem to have a problem with it.
I'm surprised to see my boy Nemesis so high. I guess people like the feeling of killing alongside the zombies. Twins and Skull Merchant being so low is surprising, based off the ever-present backlash against them. The other 3 of the bottom 5 are stronger than you'd think, but not as strong as others would have you think. But I'm a big advocate for Demogorgon.
And all those killers being played more than Spirit is a bit surprising. Overall, I think those top killers are indicative of which ones are good design and/or fun to play.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Really, Demogorgon and Artist are less played than Vecna? I see Skull Merchant and Twins more than I see Vecna.
I can't stand playing as Vecna. He's so incredibly weak vs decent survivors. Pretty much any killer that gives survivors free items to use against them is gonna feel that way, except maybe* Xenomorph.
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I think it sets a terrible precedent. I get the fear that new players are gonna face a Haste stacking and/or Hinder stacking combo, and be like, "The killer's way too fast! I can't do anything to get away!" But news flash, they do that anyway, whether the has Haste/Hinder or not. And dude, these people are complaining about killers using their entire build to pull off 1 combo. The strength of these combos is up for debate, but some of them really aren't strong.
Like, I had a friend years ago who we tried to body block a hook for, but because the Blight had Agitation, Iron Grasp, AND Mad Grit, he still got hooked after like 2 people going down for him. "The killer should not be able to carry me for that bleeping long!" and then he DC'd. And it's like, "Dude, had we not gone for a blocks, he would've been a 1-perk killer all match." It was our mistake! Yes, we didn't know he had those perks until it was too late, but that's the point of niche combos like that. The survivors shouldn't get to know them for free. Tangent, I know.
But Haste/Hinder combos similarly deprive killers of much needed other perks. I had a build which was STBFL/Rapid/Superior Anatomy/Unbound. It actually made tiles like shack playable for M1 killers (half the time, anyway). So I was excited for the upcoming Unbound buff, from 5% Haste to 10%. But the not stacking change just killed the build. Just imagine what's going on in the macro. Yes, the killer is using Haste and/or Hinder stacking to down survivors really quick, or make them play so safe they use up lots of pallets in a short time period. But that's simply them fulfilling the requirement of their role. You HAVE to down survivors back to back, with no breaks, to keep your momentum going. And all those perks contributing to better chase times, is at the cost of gen defence, and aura reading, and endgame stuff. Don't survivors WANT killers to not run that other stuff?
I'm just afraid this is gonna be the start of built-in perk lockout system. "You can't use this perk and this perk together, because that's too strong!" That's basically what they've done here. "You're not allowed to use synergistic perks to create strategies!" There's survivor perks as well which get messed up by this change. At least we won't have to deal with Made For This/Soul Pact combos. But survivor Haste stacking was always more problematic than the killer's, because killer going faster at least advances (or at least has the chance to advance) the match. Survivor Haste stacking just makes them borderline uncatchable, which prevents the killer from advancing their objective. The killer having the same just makes survivors have to play safer or loop better, as I've said. But this is all water under the bridge if this change goes through. I just wish the devs had focused on something different to balance the game. Wise man (not me) once said that speed differentials are bad design in this game, and I sort of agree. But now that it's been in for so long, we've become attached to it. It feels like the devs are just taking away fun combos and stuff.
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Medkits and toolboxes are pretty much always good. Flashlights are only good when you can consistently get the angle on the killer, or when the killer doesn't have Lightborn, which many low level and a few higher levels killers use. I've just been using Fire Up/Forever Entwined to avoid flashlight saves.
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This has to be a bug. No way...
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His nerfs might have rubbed people the wrong way. I'm almost always against killer nerfs, but the changes to him didn't bother me that much. I still play him. It's just that Ghoul is new and strong, and so is the new Xenomorph, so I've been occupied by them instead.
Unknown is a decent killer. I've got him in B tier on the tier list I'm working on. Others would put him in A. A 115% ranged killer is always gonna be decent, except for Trickster. The instant teleport is also great, especially with Blurry Photo, and I'd like to see such an effective "instant" to on Hag and Dredge, where they can actually act out of them quickly, as to not lose what should be a free hit.
I like playing with the physics of Unknown's projectile, the explosion through the wall hits, and especially the bounce shots. I similarly play Sigma when I play Overwatch. Bounce shots with explosions at the end are just cool.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912168#Comment_3912168
Well, you heard it hear folks. Nurse is officially a worse killer than the ghoul.
He's more accessible than Nurse. He doesn't need 1000 hours solely dedicated to him to be played well, and most of the stuff he can do is accessible to console players. That's what people mean when they complain, "He's too easy to play." If you make him worse than he is now, he'll be worse for learners, causing no more new people to pick him up, and the top players with him will be basically untouched. That's the same thing that happens with almost every killer nerf, not even addressing the real issues.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911777#Comment_3911777
All of the Perks are pretty bad. Honestly, they should have released the Survivor without any Perks.
I mean, with Rapid Response you can see the Killer at the start of the game if you run an Exhaustion Perk like Dramaturgy or Sprint Burst…But still, not good.
They're not bad at all.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910109#Comment_3910109
Yeah, that's technically a nerf. Maybe I am "coping" but I feel like the nerf is net neutral at worst, all things considered. The new wind up feels better when hugging walls going around sharp turns. I feel like I don't need direct LOS as much as before. But maybe I'm tripping
I've since played as Xenomorph, and I have to agree it's an overall buff. He feels way smoother. Tail feels straighter and easier to control. I just hope that the longer start-up doesn't make it automatically trumpable by good dodging survivors.
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@Brightened said:
You will have to nerf the ghoul unless you want to have no solo queue players left.
It's honestly ridiculous that is hasn't addressed yet
NO SURVIVOR LIKES PLAYING AGAINST THIS.
I have an easier time playing as Xenomorph or Unknown honestly. Ghoul has been overrated since the start.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911249#Comment_3911249
StB cannot be called anti-tunnel perk? StB is literally not only the best anti-tunneling perk in the entire game, but also the best survivor perk at the very moment because not only it counters tunneling, it also forces 12-hooking which is already a crippling disadvantage for huge majority of killers.
The user transfers the hook state from their teammate to themselves AND becomes exposed in the process, making them an easier target for the Killer.
You don't need to be a godlike survivor player for the exposed timer to run out way before killer will even land a hit on you :)
Plus, you are now forcing killer to spread hooks, which is already a huge disadvantage, as i already mentioned.
It's a perk that literally screams "Don't tunnel that guy, tunnel me instead," and then we're back to square one.
so...spreading hooks is now...bad for survivors? Did you even read what you typed?
I've literally forgotten that Shoulder The Burden gives Exposed, because it's so hard to get that one person because they then play so safe, it's like "Might as well go for anyone at this point!" So you're 1 hook down on time, and nothing really has been accomplished. You lost momentum expecting to get an eventual pay off, and STB just takes that potential away. That's what people really don't get, that you're perpetually losing momentum as killer, from the start, and only "start winning" or "make a comeback" once the game is basically already won. If those survivors keep it together in those last 30-60 seconds, your expectant win becomes a loss or draw instead. That's kind of what I've learned.
People also really don't get the spreading hooks thing. They think multiple hooks across multiple people means increased pressure on each. Yes... but that pressure means so little when the killer achieving that takes pretty much the whole match, when 5 gens are already done and escape is inevitable. The whole argument, in fact most "killer bad/killer OP" arguments, seem to lack any sense of macro play. Like, yep, the killer just goes on 1 chase, then another, kicks a gen or 2, breaks a pallet or 2, goes for another chase or 2, and suddenly the team is dead with like 1 gen done. The survivors totally couldn't have used the fact that there's 4 of them to avoid that outcome.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909810#Comment_3909810
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909900#Comment_3909900
This isn't about whether tunneling can be extended by looping or if gen-splitting causes pressure, it's about how one-sided the effort-to-impact ratio is.
It takes zero killer perks to tunnel and completely gut a survivor’s match. Meanwhile, it takes multiple specific survivor perks just to maybe delay being tunneled out and even then, it often doesn’t work. That’s not balance. That’s disparity.
Comparing that to looping, which is just part of core gameplay, is inappropriate. Tunneling isn't just pressure, it's elimination. There's no upside for the survivor being tunneled, only the killer.
If it took killer perks just to make tunneling work, we would be screwed. Don't you see? It's all about having enough time. The killer doesn't have enough time to kill survivors, by design. So they make up for it by working strategies and slowdown into the playstyle. I pseudo-tunnel. I stick to 2 survivors, alternating their hooks. The moment I break from that strategy, either going for 1 or going for random hooks, I lose. The threat of DS is too much. Even though tunneling 1 can lead to a lucky early kill, it can also cost you the match the moment you get DS stunned. And even though hooking multiple people creates "split pressure," that pressure never equates to kills. A survivor is not dead... until they are dead, meaning any hooks you have against them have been a net negative on time. A 30-second chase, though the survivors can do a heck of a lot better than that, is a minute and a half for the other survivors, and if they're on gens, that's basically 1 and a half gens done.
You can reframe it however you want, although you doing that just creates silly statements. Tunneling and looping physically can't be made impossible, no matter how much we might want them to. They're strategies created naturally as a way of increasing the likelihood of winning. That's why they're comparable and are not shameful to engage in. How effective those strategies should* be is still up for debate.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909140#Comment_3909140
We probably should seriously question why Killers like Nurse and Blight are doing it, not why they're unskilled. "Skill-less" is a loaded term.
Well, we all know the answer. Things have gotten so bad, that killers like Nurse and Blight need to tunnel. GHOUL needs to tunnel, or focus on just 2 people. There's no time to play any other way. I mean, yes, you can play just doing random chases, but you're leaving it completely up to chance at that point. If the survivors are decent, you'll be mega punished and will lose. If the survivors are bad, well then you can just do whatever and still get a win.
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I don't think so. A near-instant queue being the standard doesn't make a 1-minute queues "forever," and that's pretty much what I've been getting as killer. Haven't felt long queues since like the first week of the new killer's release.
Then again, it could be my region giving me great queue times.
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It's a toss up between a few. The "finish 4 gens yourself" one was something else, but that's an old one. The orange glyph ones are pretty annoying, doing everything slower as killer. There's a couple ones I can't name off the top of my head with ridiculous requirements, like hiding within a few meters of the killer for a certain amount of time, and then escaping.
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The ships do not work as maps, except for the ship from Alien 4 maybe, because it's so huge. Even has a basketball court. The Alien map I was predicting was the place from Alien 3. The junk yard, the quarters, the medical area, the tunnels, the lead facility, the catwalk/fence area. There's so much you could include. The more popular grounded area would be the colony from Aliens, of course, but I sometimes like to go for things that are less obvious.
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I really don't think that's the case. I think they're playing the new, strong killer while they can, because it's fun. When his required effort equates to too little fun, people will mostly stop playing him. It's not as if them switching to this killer has made them lose their skill in other killers. But rather he appears so strong by comparison, that all those other killers perform like nothing, literally struggling to get 1-2 kills. Ghoul's release coincides with the nerf to Knock-Out. Once he's finished, and the people can't go back to slugging, I don't know what killers are gonna do. So that's why Ghoul is seeing so much play, because he's the pinnacle of killers strength/fun right now.
But he's not overpowered. People are saying he's stronger than Nurse/Blight. CLEARLY not, and I shouldn't even have to explain it. His mobility, easy injures, and the conjunction of two those makes him strong, but it doesn't make him infallible. There's a few things people say about him that have "no counters," but they really do. First, he flies in front of you to block a pallet/window. Believe it or not, you have control over that. If your body is in the way of that, if you move a certain way, then he doesn't get to do that. It's the same as countering a Wraith body block; you have to anticipate and counter that play. Second, his pallet/window vault when he attaches to you. It's not a free hit for him. You just have to loop around the same as always once he does that, except you have less time, so less margin for error. If you move back and forth as he's doing it, or hold forward away from the loop, he's going to catch up and hit you. But you made that mistake, not the killer being OP. His cooldowns? They're not that quick. The rest of the killer cast just has such pathetically long/slowing cooldowns, that his look like lightning by comparison. It's just that all And lastly, the deep wounding special attack itself. He's not supposed to be hitting through different floors, through walls, or around corners, and that will be patched out, definitely. That's a bug, which is not core to his power, and yet people seem to think that it is when they talk about him. But his ability to injure people being easy is a part of his kit, and makes him a weaker Legion in that respect. Maybe they could tone back the auto-aim a little, but if you give it the same hitbox as Nemesis' whip or Xenomorph's tail, you're never gonna be able to land that attack, especially not on console. And if he's not ever landing that attack, he suddenly becomes more M1-ish, which is unviable.
M1 killers and 110% killers are unviable because they're too slow and/or can't do anything at loops more than the survivors can. We all know it. If you put Freddy, Pig, Legion, or Plague at any strong loop like shack or a jungle gym, the survivors can just use the checks spots and not get hit, sometimes even after the pallet has been thrown and broken, because of how overpowered those windows are. Even if you put those killers at a smaller, "less safe" loop, what's the best they get? A 50/50? And that's only after Bloodlust 1-2? That's sad. And if they get pallet stunned or they have to break the pallet, which the stronger tiles can force no matter what, then the entire chase resets. So if 115% killers like those are too slow, how bad are the 110%ers? Much worse. Despite all the claims of Huntress, Hag, Spirit, etc being so powerful, I hardly see them. They're high lethality when played to perfection, but whose fault is that? Theirs, or the survivors'? What happens when Huntress goes against a 1 rock loop or there's obstacles everywhere, or Hag has someone who harasses her traps with the hit denial exploit, or Spirit can't hear anything because the game's sounds are bad and/or silence perks? They get destroyed, because in those scenarios they're forced to chase as a normal killer, but with 5% less speed, when normal killers can't even get survivors. The same loops that are tough for them, become literal god loops vs 110% killers.
This is why you can't make Blight or Ghoul, or any other killer, 110% speed as a nerf, because you will instantly kill them. This is also why bringing strong killers down to the strength of M1 killers through nerfs also kills them, because as I've just explained, M1 is unviable and dependant on survivor mistakes to get hits. It's why the average killer is elite, unlike you say, because they've been stuck with these inadequate, choreographed chase killers FOR YEARS, and they actually beat decent survivors with them. They've learned to maximize damage and minimize downtime to get momentum, to get more than a draw, even when survivors give them really tough matches on the regular, and they don't have to be efficient on gens and chase. Just 1 will do. Maybe that would change if the loops, or the killer powers, or something would get changed.
Most importantly, if you want to see less of a particular killer, you don't solve that by nerfing them. We've tried that strategy for years, and it's been an absolute failure. You solve the issue by giving variance through competition, which means introducing new killers that rival (or come close to rivaling) the top killers' strength. If you nerf Ghoul, we're gonna get more Nurse/Blight. I'd rather not. I'd rather keep those two and Ghoul as is, and maybe buff Wraith, Freddy, Deathslinger, Pinhead, Singularity, Unknown, or Houndmaster so that we actually SEE those killers, instead of the same 2-5 all the time. When you do see other killers, they're easy stomps, and it's not because those killer players are bad. It's because the killers they're playing are bad. Chases against Wraith, Doctor, Unknown, etc are some of the most fun I have playing against killers. Make them stronger, not others weaker, so I can see them more often.
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Being locked out of playing certain killers or perks is never good design.
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I want to use as many of them up as I can while they're available, because other characters, I've got hundreds of event-specific offerings on. And since they're forced into our bloodwebs, I'll be getting a great deal of them.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911117#Comment_3911117
That's your balance standard?
'It's not OP unless it has 100% winrate'?
Most of my remarks about 'forum killers' are kind of hyperbole, but you have gone above and beyond, buddy!
No, it's not my balance standard. Strawman. At least you're honest about other remarks.
My balance standard is both sides being able to do something, and the claims that survivors "can't do anything" vs Ghoul is just false. They especially harp on that if a survivor drops a pallet, and you as Ghoul slide across it by attaching to them, you "stun" them and get a "guaranteed" hit. No, you don't. I've done that move 100 times, and the only survivors I ever hit that way were either bad on hugging the loop, or held W (the worst play you can possibly make there). He's just not as strong as most people exaggerate.
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We must be talking two different killers, because I'm not seeing any of that. Like any killer, he has no map pressure unless he's getting constant downs, and his power frankly isn't good enough to do that on its own. Survivors have to be playing bad in chase and in general efficiency. If he was as strong as y'all say, he'd always get a 4k, and yet he isn't currently.
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I've got around 200 of the other brown add-ons. I've only been able to get around 50 of Fresh Coffee. Something is definitely up.
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Nobody's saying this is fine. Even those of us saying he doesn't need a nerf will agree this is a bug that needs fixing.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910091#Comment_3910091
No, you are just harder to see and get a smaller terror radius. And obviously the tail attack.
So you get only buffs.
"Only buffs" when the attack takes longer, making it even more reactable.
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The Pentimento and Houndmaster changes were really out of nowhere. Pentimento being worse basically kills the perk, and any builds associated with it like the Plaything one. Now survivors can cleanse hexes with basically no fear. Houndmaster's dog vaulted fast, because if it did it slower, it would be like baiting Wesker's power at a window, where the survivor has control. If it was faster, the killer gets them with the dog basically every time, but now that it's gonna be slower, a survivor can bait window and force the Houndmaster to miss with their dog, because if Houndmaster waits to react, the survivor makes the window. And who was complaining about any of this?
I don't know what the plan is. BHVR treats players as an inexhaustible resource. "Who cares if our dedicated veterans have had enough and leave? Tokyo Ghoul! More players! FNAF! More players!" They're hoping it'll just go on forever, recouping their losses with new players. But at some point the game is gonna get the same reputation as CSGO or League Of Legends or Overwatch, and then it will die. Either it'll be considered a sweaty game with an overly toxic community, or just a trash game. Already, if you ask us what's the most toxic game community, it's DBD, or DBD is in the top 3. Now, I was gonna go on a huge tangent about toxicity in the game, but it always became too "us vs them," so I relent this time. Basically, the toxic survivors (not saying all survivors) think they're validated in being toxic to killers by default, because the nerfs against certain strategies like gen defence or slugging coincided with their belief that anyone using those strategies were being 'toxic,' and couldn't possibly be doing it just to win. The killers respond by being toxic to survivors by default, and the cycle goes on.
A simple matchmaking fix would improve the solo survivor satisfaction by leaps and bounds. It'd be like, "Whaaat? Teammates who actually do the objective? Amazing!" Or for the casuals: "Whaaat? A team of learners going against a killer who's also learning? No way!" And, in my opinion, the game's survivor sidedness, because of the base math of the game, would start the be revealed, so killers would start getting buffed finally. Survivors would be happy, killers would be happy, and then we could finally have a discussion on the disparity between solo and SWF.
But apparently the devs don't want that. They'd rather have players believe that they're each other's worst enemy, rather than the matchmaking that guarantees them a bad and inconsistent experience no matter what role they play. Survivor needs a matchmaking fix to be fun. Killer needs a balance fix to be fun. Let's get it over with already.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909397#Comment_3909397
So there are just 10 perks for killer that are useful? You clearly have no idea that killer variety is much bigger than this.
In this game, mid-level noob stomp perks are considered meta for some reason. I think that's where you're coming from. Given an ideal survivor team, there's like no worthwhile hexes. But with a team of survivors who don't know what they're doing or don't really care to win, hexes slay. But we can't consider every perk "broken" just because it's noob stomp, because that would encompass basically every perk. There really isn't that much killer variety, when it comes to actual good stuff. That's why my current build includes Brutal Strength and Forever Entwined, because those are now basically as useful as Pop or NOED.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909160#Comment_3909160
How is it an auto win? I've seen many pull off escapes against these types of tactics.
Nothing. They just say it is, and so it is.
People have got to get used to difficulty, period. They act like killers aren't allowed to use perks or strategy that helps them win. No, just learn to counter those things the best you can. Most won't even do that anymore. They just rage quit.
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@daikaimon said:
One of the reasons “self-care” is used so often on Asian servers is probably the strong emphasis on generators.
Many Japanese players do not like the idea of two people staying in place, one to treat and the other to be treated.
They want the treatment to be completed by one person, and the rest of the players to perform generator repairs, chases, etc.
Another reason may be the relatively high number of tunneling killers.
(It is difficult to treat immediately after a rescue.)
We recognize that the popular parks among Japanese survivors are not that different from North America, except for "self-care. Sprint Burst“ is particularly popular, as are ”Off-Record“ and ”Decisive Strike" for tunnel protection.
Naturally, “Nurse” and ‘Blight’ are the most popular killers in the S tier, followed by “Twins,” “Wraith,” and “Singularity” in the A tier.I can see the angle on that. They want to be strong as independent players, not just as a team. So they want self-reliant perks like Self-Care. It's universally agreed upon in the West that Self-Care by itself is a bad perk, because it's so slow. Self-Care with Botany or some other healing perks is a different situation. But you should almost never prioritize healing before generators, with a few exceptions. If you're injured, you can still do generators. So, to be the most efficient on generators, you don't heal, and instead do the gen. If you're on your last hook, or the killer has been tunneling you and you manage to get away, obviously you would heal then. Resurgence from Jill can actually make healing under hook very safe, since you're almost healed all the way with that perk as soon as you get off.
Nurse and Blight are basically unchallenged on the top; no other killers come close to their power. It's not surprising that Japanese players would fall easy to Twins, since they're independent, and the main counterplay against Twins is running together, so that 1 player gets downed and the other kicks Victor before Charlotte gets back.
But Wraith and Singularity being considered strong is very surprising. Wraith might have the most counterplay in the game, which is all about abusing his slowdown he gets from uncloaking. For example, when you're both standing at opposite sides of an upright pallet, and he starts to uncloak, instead of dropping it to be safe, you can call his bluff and not drop it. That's because usually from his perspective, he wants to 99% his uncloak, so that you drop the pallet, and he gets to stay in cloak without having to waste time recloaking after the pallet break. Singularity, I have no idea how he ever gets any wins. His EMPs which he gives survivors for free are everywhere and are constant, and can disable multiple cameras AND cure multiple infections in 1 use. So the Singularity spends all this time setting up cameras to trap survivors in chase or to monitor gens, but when he needs them most they're disabled by an EMP. He's easily one of the most frustrating killers for me to play as, because it's so much work for so little payoff.
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@daikaimon said:
I am a Japanese DBD player.
In Japan, there is talk of a big difference in playstyle between the North American and other server environments and the Asian server environments.
(For example, it is often said that both survivors and killers on Asian servers focus on winning, while on North American servers they focus on having fun, etc.)
Also, the evaluation of killers is very different.
For example, Chucky, for example, was treated as a weak killer with a D rank at best, even before the weakening.
Please let me know your opinions.You're right. The thing is that Westerners say* that they don't care about winning, but they really do care about it, so they're lying. If they didn't care about winning, they wouldn't whine about balance all of the time. And thus their evaluation is way off as well.
I also agree with Japan's assessment of Chucky, because I played him when he was at his strongest, and I gave up on him because he was so not worth it. Somehow that version of him became the target of relentless nerfs, and now they're trying to buff him in an attempt to raise the amount of people who play him. They shouldn't have nerfed him in the first place!
Although I've been a little confused by Japan's assessment of killers in the past. They did a "Best of the best" tournament in the past, and yet killers like Pig were being run, on imbalanced maps like Lery's. So maybe they're more casual, and care more about fun, than they realize. But them coming to the conclusion that Chucky was weak at least tells me that many of them know what they're talking about.
The issue that should unite people across all regions is the matchmaking. Many are thinking 1-dimensional, in that when they lose to a killer, they conclude that they must have lost because that killer is overpowered, with no further thought. What they don't realize is that matchmaking consistently puts bad survivors in with the good ones, and then gives them tough killer players to go against. Instead of all 5 players understanding the game and playing at the same level, it's usually only a fraction of the players in the match who know what they're doing. You can't balance the game off that, because any win/loss results you refer to will be majorly skewed. If we fix the matchmaking, and make it the way it was when MMR first released, it will be revealed that the game is really survivor-favoring, or at least SWF-favoring. Even if I'm wrong about that, fixing the matchmaking hurts literally nobody, so it should be done.
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It would be way higher than 40% under competent matchmaking. I don't know what the devs' plan is when the FNAF crowd gets here. All of their changes they've recently revealed have been to cater to casuals. Let's just suspend disbelief that that's a bad idea, just for a minute. What difference will any of those changes make if the matchmaking still forces smurf matches? Those new players are going to be easy pickings, and they're not gonna like it. Fixing the matchmaking would exponentially lessen the slamming the devs will face when the inevitable complaints start rolling in, because they'll have less to complain about.
To me, the devs see their 60/40 kill/escape rate as ideal, no matter what the cost. When MMR initially dropped, when it was the most accurate (putting people of similar skill level together, consistently), they didn't get their desired results, but rather than continuing to make balance changes to fix that, some genius must've said, "We don't have to buff killer OR solo. Just change the matchmaking." So that's what happened, with MMR being way less strict, to where a 10-hour player is getting put with a 10,000-hour player. Nobody's having fun, because killers are getting stomped by high level survivors, and solos are getting stomped by high level killers. But hey, at least the 60/40 golden equation is being met.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
If survivors are aware and don't go down in 6 seconds there are better killers you could take. But Kaneki is an excellent mistake punisher, I'd argue he demands too much from survivors. I think for a round 1 nerf, a hit to power CD and power recovery would go a long way, and then take it from there.
His overall design isn't something I hate. A killer that forces me to loop instead of mindlessly making call outs and pre running is cool. But not everybody else is in a team
If he gets a nerf to his quick cooldown, which btw is the only thing separating him from other mobility killers, then all his chases will either become pallet break simulator or like using Wesker's bounds at every single pallet (which only slows him down and doesn't actually advance his position in the chase). I won't be looking forward to that. It'd be shooting fish in a barrel, except the killer's the fish and the barrel's this game's maps, with pallets every 5 feet.
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The biggest complainers haven't even bothered to try and find counterplay. Many have, and many have succeeded. If the Ghoul attaches to you to get over a god pallet, you can still get back around to it before he catches you. I've seen people do it. Maybe because they did the point tech while getting grabbed. And you know how he's supposed to hit you if you try to vault through him after he vaults a pallet? Endurance trumps it, because you take the hit and then slide through him anyway. Many, I see, are running Made For This and Resilience, seeing as he injures easy, or perks that give Broken like Deliverance.
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@terumisan said:
honestly this speaks to how weak the other killers are. i'd rather the lower caste of killers get buffed up rather than bhvr busting out the nerf bat whenever survivors complain
That's exactly what's been happening. "I'm tired of seeing X killer all the time!" Then why do you want everyone who can compete with them to be nerfed? Food for their thoughts.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907088#Comment_3907088
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GCUWSFVUBADB/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NECFNN5TNQKT/image.png
What's worse than Whataboutism? Whataboutism that isn't even based in reality.
Oh, so you found circumstantial evidence.
I didn't want to play this game, but I think we can all tell, based on the upvotes/downvotes in this thread, which way the crowd leans. Look at the first 5 replies, for crying out loud. You would NEVER see that much pushback against Badham on average, if you actually went thread by thread and looked at what's being said. Those criticizing Badham simply don't get any traction. There's a few "Here, here!"s in response, 1-2 upvotes on each comment, and no dev, mod, or community leader input. That's it.
I like how you curated the search results with the date filters to get better results for your narrative. I just put Badham in the search bar and pressed search, which displayed to me the types of discussions I described above.^ Y'all really have a way of distorting reality yourselves, citing the devs' ever-skewed kill rates to say why killers need nerfing, and using the win streaks of the greatest upper echelon of killer players which I can count on 1-2 hands to justify the same. If you want to say I'M the one with logical fallacies, I'll match you tit for tat every time.
I guess none of this matters, and all we can do is wait. See if Haddonfield gets omega buffed instead of the devs simply adding a loop or moving a gen, so that the map's not so polarizing. Or see if Badham ever becomes fair, like via the nerf/removal of house of pain, main, or 2-story, because any one of those buildings can lead to a game-losing chase for killer currently. The stuff I say isn't always tied to statistics, but it is tied to experience, and my experience says the devs either won't do anything, or they'll give survivors the better deal. Just you watch.
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Maybe if the blood generators didn't negate tons of killer perks (Brutal, Nowhere To Hide, Fire Up, etc), it would be more fun, and less killers would sweat. But this whole gimmick seems extremely boring to me. Do generators, and then poor blood for other generators, which btw will unnecessarily confuse the killer because A) the blood gets left on the ground while being carried, even by healthy people, and B) the blood generators have orange light coming from them, similar to how regressing gens have orange sparks. Totally not confusing to players at all. 🤦♀️ It's funny to hear people complain about killers being able to kick and start regressing blood generators, like that's an added benefit that's way overkill or something. And of course people are complaining about the new killer still, because he just came out. When has it ever been fun or healthy where a new character drops in a game, and the players playing them get guilt tripped for playing with that new character? Makes no sense at all, and it just creates animosity between players.
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I really can't tell anymore. I can't give credit, because I don't even understand what that looks like in the grand scheme of this game. They haven't addressed the balance, because they haven't first addressed the matchmaking. As far as I'm concerned, they haven't taken any steps in the right direction.
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So a smidge more than a draw, on average. With almost a third of his matches being 1k or 0k.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907127#Comment_3907127
Statistically absurd winstreaks are way too common on killer for a game that supposedly has functioning matchmaking. Congrats to those who put 3k hours on a killer. They should be able to consistently get wins. They should even be able to win a majority of their matches (70-80%). However, they should be facing difficult competition for those wins, and should not be winning 10-1000 straight matches, most of them without really being pressed at all.
Meanwhile i have 11k hours in the game and probably 80% on survivor, and would be lucky to escape 3 matches in a night of playing, let alone consecutively. Survivor win streaks are much less prevalent, both in frequency and magnitude, because the game currently lacks effective skill expression for survivors.
But again, this is the problem with bringing this up: you don't know how common those streaks are. You might be able to come up with a list of 10 names, that you'll have to scour the Internet for, to find a sizeable pool of people who have done these really big streaks. And there's also a lot of assuming in that they didn't struggle for these wins. Obviously they didn't have to for a lot of them, because the game randomly gives you forced smurf matches. But there's far more where they did have to struggle, almost losing them their streak at 10 wins, or 20 wins, 50, 100, 150.
And it's funny that your initial point is matchmaking, because you don't seem to connect it at all to your difficulty as survivor. If the matchmaking is messed up, wouldn't that be a bigger drag on your escape rate than anything the killer's doing in-match? You don't have much of a chance if the killer's actually trying to win, and only 1 or 2 on your whole team are doing the same, because of the matchmaking. This is what I've been trying to explain to people. You're conflating constant mismatches with a broken game state.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906296#Comment_3906296
Yes. The era of multiple hundreds of matches winstreaks should never have existed and should not continue.
That's such a copout. I don't factor survivor win streaks in my arguments, even though I can, especially the "don't get hooked once" streaks. And the killer ones, you're talking about people who can be counted on 1 hand, maybe 2, and who've invested like 3000 hours or more just into 1 killer. And this whole idea is based on assuming that all killers do this. They don't. They're unable to get even a 1-win streak of the survivors play good. I know, because I and others multi-thousand hour players have had nights full of losses, including 0k's. What do those streaks matter to us there?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906283#Comment_3906283
So the killer should be nerfed so teams can stomp him even harder? You don't balance games around average skill players.
Dude, I've been saying the same for a while. Except they're not balancing for average players, they're balancing for the lowest level. The reason you don't do that, as a developer, is because it makes no sense. Casuals do not care about balance, or at least shouldn't have a say in it, because they have no clue what they're talking about. But this is what BHVR has done, is balance around them, and so any competent survivors who recognize the strength of their tools can just bully the killer, because he's not a threat.
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Doesn't surprise me. I don't feel control when I play him either. There's no killer that efficient gens and looping won't trump.
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The survivor double backed on themselves while being grabbed instead of commiting to 1 direction. Pretty sure that down had less to do with what the Ghoul did.