danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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I need to get someone to P100. I've just been getting several of them to P30. Wraith, Ripley, Demogorgon, Alan, and more. It's indicative of my Minecraft experience, where I'll start multiple projects, and leave them all half-finished while I start up another one.
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
This is the result of allowing trash gameplay to occur. When new players and seasoned players all use the same tactics to win it's going to feel like every game is a sweat match. There is no gap between a killer who doesn't understand loops,when to drop chase or apply gen pressure and someone who does. Countless times have I watched a killer chase 1 survivor for 2 or 3 gens and still get a 4k because of tunneling/camping or slugging.
For the people who would argue this because of mmr. #1 mmr doesn't exist not because there is no system in place but in order to reduce que times it's impossible for mmr to actually be effective. #2 even if mmr did work the way it was supposed to there would be nothing accounting for how people win matches. Which right now is scewed heavily because of the massive DC/give up epidemic that is going on.
When your standard chase does cause the killer to lose 2-3 gens, sure, both low and high level will look the same. But survivor definitely doesn't look the same at high and low levels. They're actually looping at high level, and can run the killer for like 5 gens, hence why the killers have to RETREAT from them.
MMR does exist, it's just very bad, because like you said quick queues become the priority, rather than similarly experienced opponents being put against each other.
I don't get what you mean with #2 though. If the game is killer sided, fixing MMR would bring it to light, through the matches. If the game is survivor sided, the fix would bring it to light, through the matches. How people play has nothing to do with it at that point, because you'd have it separated generally into high, low, and mid level, where both sides played about as well as each other. Things like tunneling are only really effective against low and mid level players, and at that level the killers won't be playing well enough to use those strategies effectively anyway, and any luck they have using them would be due to the survivors not playing well. I'm just trying to explain how nothing the killer has will be a smashing success across the board by its own nature. For example, you could rebuff Engineer's Fang on Pinhead right now, and it would make zero difference to the people playing him at low level, because they'd barely be able to land the possessed chains. A buff to killer made for high level balance won't suddenly make them really oppressive at low level, because the killers there aren't playing their best either, which they'd need to in order to even take advantage of what they've got.
And if it's the DCs that are the problem, the DCers need to be put in their own queue or face sizeable penalties. But let's be certain: the DCs are out of entitlement, not out of some righteous effort to demonstrate how strong killer is. It's just petty, and it sabotages entire teams of survivors, sometimes on matches that they were set to win.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
Why on earth do I, who just solo's or duo's, have to play against comp wannabe's sweating their balls off on a p100 Blight or Nurse with run 4 slowdowns who camps or tunnels at 5 gens? It's absolutely infuriating playing a match out that's literally doomed to be an L from the get go.
I'm so sick to death of being forced to play out matches against these type of players. Like, if matchmaking actually worked they way you think it would, then these guys should be facing seal team six swfs with the same mindset and builds constantly, but that never happens. It's just players like me getting caught in between serving no purpose, but giving these guys a completely free W. These matches are completely pointless and a waste of everyone's time because there's no way even the killer has fun dunking on players way less coordinated, sweaty, or skilled.
I don't know what the solution is, but I think it can start by heavily nerfing S tiers because I think they're very unhealthy for game balance and it's impossible to fully balance the game out when they coexist with killers like Trapper or Pig. Alternatively, improve matchmaking to where casual players don't get forced into these auto losses, I don't care how long these killers have to wait for a match, if they want to come into a match to pubstomp, then they absolutely deserve to wait to face a team with the exact same mindset as them.
The game shouldn't be giving you those killers if you're as casual as I'm suspecting, but if you're going in expecting to win, except the killers to play to win as well. Simple as.
You even understand the solution, for the matchmaking system to actually put people of like-hour'd, like-experienced players together. There's not need to nerf killers until that happens. And these matches aren't doomed from the start. Maybe you personally are not equipped to deal with those killers, but the game is kind of about overcoming obstacles. You CAN physically do stuff to prevent you loss, like doing gens and playing safe. Most do neither of those things, and then complain.
You're not doing your argument favors by wanting the killers to be punished for "pubstomping." They're just playing to win, not to cause misery for no good reason. That's the mischaracterization of killers I see constantly on here, because in reality they're as much a victim of the bad matchmaking system as you. Yes, people can wait a minute in queue for more accurate matchmaking, but that's to both sides' benefit, not just 1.
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@WolfyWood said:
It was never intended to be a useful perk.
Just another meme perk that serves to help survivors lose the game like 80% of the survivor perk pool.
Yes it was. You do gens, which you were gonna do anyway, and you get a blinding tool, which can be used to save as well. The only way it makes survivors lose the game is if they create a bunch of them and then always fail to use them.
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@H2H said:
heck yeah voice chat, I’d love to listen to deranged losers shout slurs at me!
That would be so funny.
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I'd be talking trash the whole time, rightfully so. There's no reason for everyone to get off gens because 1 person was hooked once. I'm hoping that's what it'd be used for, anyway, talking strategy and explaining inefficiency. But I've played that Death Note game, and if it's anything like that game's voice chat experience, it's gonna fail, because you'll have neanderthals talking the loudest thinking that makes them right, and the smart players will be drowned out. Just like The Island men vs women edition, where the women had 1 capable survivalist lady who knew exactly what she was talking about, but because the rest of them didn't like taking orders or feeling less smart, they just group bully style disagreed with everything she said.
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@CLHL said:
They took the quitters' argument instead of punishing them properly and here we are, the problem has only grown.
Yeah, you don't do that, man. You don't legitimize people who rage quit all the time. These devs basically tell them, "You're right to do that." So they'll just continue to rage quit against anything that gives them any amount of difficulty, and then the devs will nerf it.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917425#Comment_3917425
“I do not understand why ONE survey published at ONE point in time is used to draw conclusions about developer thoughts and behavior. Don’t you think any reasonable conclusion should be based on more than ONE piece of evidence?”
Because they still think it’s 2017 and still want to hold on to the idea that the game is super survivor sided and that killers can’t do anything in matches even though they win most of their matches
They only win so much because the matchmaking forces them to smurf, giving them maybe 1-2 good survivors, and then the rest are terrible. When MMR first dropped, and actually worked, killers were getting destroyed.
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@RainehDaze said:
I… feel quite baffled going through it. Like, it feels like a very important question was skipped early in the process (I'm on question 60 and counting): how much do you play each role.
Getting so many teamwork etc. questions when I only occasionally play Survivor is certainly a choice, when the answer is "it doesn't really affect me most of the time".
The surveys have been a waste of time for the longest, and take way too long to complete.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
It was a buff and a revert. Original Pharmacy granted an Emergency Medkit on first search, then with 6.1.0 they "buffed" the Perk, granting an Emergency Medkit on every search, but only when injured. This was seen as a Nerf by the community. Pharmacy was already a niche Perk, but having to be injured turned the Perk from quite convenient into some form of luck-based Perk, because you had to hope that there is an unopened chest and cannot just walk to any chest at the start anymore. Plus when you are injured you are most likely hooked and unhooked, so that someone else can heal you instead of you searching for a chest.
So while there were slight buffs in 8.4.0 (increase of noise suppression and a bit faster chest searching speed from 80% to 100%), the real buff was the revert of the Nerf they did before.
Yeah, pretty much breaking even. If it was the old green medkit you'd always find, with faster healing to yourself and to teammates, then we'd be talkin'. But the way medkits work now, just bring in a good medkit and don't bother with chest searching time waste.
In fact, that could be a rework for the perk I'd recommend. Let people find the old green medkit out of the chests, and at the end of the trial they don't get to keep them. Otherwise old green medkits would essentially be back, and Quentin would become pay to play, in a way.
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It's the same gamble either way, the same loss of other potentially good perks. Your wasting a perk slot on something that can be perma-destroyed, and Undying is bringing another perk that can be perma-destroyed... to protect the first one that can be perma-destroyed. With Pentimento, that may have been worth it, but if you've read the recent balance changes, there goes that. This is why I never use hexes, except to mix it up and try something new/fun, because their power level doesn't even justify the perma-destroyed clause. Even if it did, you'd still be gambling on them not getting broken. There's no consistency in that, just luck.
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@Na1ts1rhc said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JABL4A5R55LC/sddefault.jpg
They absolutely ruined my boy and I'm never gonna get over it
Yeah, it's ridiculous. We talk about, sometimes exaggerate about, the devs killing killers. No, they KILLED this killer. Took away everything that made him good. Heck, they did that within the very first nerf, then nerfed him 2 more after that!
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@OrangeBear said:
The survivor has to make a mistake to get hit by scamper unfortunately, you need to surprise them
And at that point, Pig's dash attack becomes the more versatile/reliable special attack of the 2. That is shocking.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916724#Comment_3916724
Ngl when I heard he got nerfed I was like what? Because he seemed pretty balanced around average maybe a little higher mmr survivors to begin with.
They've had killer nerfs out of left field for years. Freddy, Wraith, Deathslinger, Pinhead. Those last 3 were nerfed all in the same patch. At least Pinhead was looking to be a top 4 killer at the time, if only with a pink add-on.
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@SeriousRain said:
Who is top 2 after Nurse?
Obviously Blight. His speed add-ons make him very hard to react to, but then again he needs those add-ons, or else he's slow as crap. I've tested it, and the difference is astounding.
In third place, you're looking at Hillbilly, Spirit, or Ghoul, and I think Spirit shines the most. She's fast and invisible, so you have to guess where she is and from what direction, and is probably the only 110% killer whose ability actually justifies their base speed.
Hillbilly is only good when you're facing a master of curving, and those are few and far between. Even then, he needs favorable loops and/or Bamboozle. Basically Leatherface, but with movement. I think he's top 5-7 at best.
And Ghoul has been way overrated. All this talk of him being uncounterable at loops is not true. If he's going for a "launch in front of you/body block" type move, just move your character to block him from doing that. Whoever has the best planning/reactions wins that interaction; it's not just him who wins it. And when he slides over pallets/windows at you, that's not a guarantee either. You would just get another loop around, except at very specific loops or if your movement was just bad. The easy injures is what Legion does, and nobody considers that OP except noobs.
But Ghoul is still probably tied for 4th strongest, with Pyramid Head. There's just nothing else like his ability to tunnel someone out once they've stepped in his trail. He still has a pretty slow and clunky ranged attack, but it's just big enough (and the fact it goes through walls) to where it actually cuts chases short. To me, that tunnel potential is more valuable than Ghoul's, who still has to content with DS and other off-the-hook effects.
I don't really see other candidates than these for top killers. You could argue Hag, or Wesker, or Twins, or Oni (most reasonable choice, but only on PC), but at the end of the day they have glaring weaknesses that are exploitable that the above-mentioned killers don't share.
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@Blueberry said:
Not even a PH player but I hope he does, he’s needed it for so long.
Literally 3 usable add-ons. All the range ones.
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The reason the devs hate setup killers is because they cater to casuals. And casuals don't strategize; they'll just lose all the time. Trapper with all his traps starting in-hand isn't OP, and wouldn't exclusively be used for 3-gen and basement camping (even though he's forced to play that way when the survivors are good). So I don't think you have his best interests at heart. He legit needs both pink add-ons to be good. Hag's had that no- camera turn/pre-run exploit in the game for years, which the survivors don't even need to beat her, but they do. Skull Merchant was pretty balanced before her nerf because of the gen kick limit; people just weren't patient or strategic. And Singularity is a joke because his power is disabled all match through infinite EMPs, and his own hooking takes away his power too. All this bad design, or 1-sided design (because it's not so bad for survivors), is because people would rather ask that a killer be nerfed than ever considering to learn their counterplay. Look no further than the response to Skull Merchant and Ghoul.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916724#Comment_3916724
Um, what? Release Chucky was extremely strong and oppressive. Not quite on Nurse's level, but he was without question a top five killer in the game.
Release Freddy was also definitely S tier. You can't argue that he wasn't. But he was more S tier because he was broken and it was clear they didn't think some things through before they released him.
Not quite? Nowhere near, dude! What was that based on, anyway? The fact that he has a special attack that is fast and can damage? Or, what my casual friends said at the time: "Because he has stealth." Yeah, sure, that alone makes a killer OP, right?
And I'm talking about Freddy after his initial rework, where he first got the snares/pallets and gen tp. Nothing about that was OP. Regular old gen regression perks, one of which was Ruin (permanently destroyable), one of which was Pop (only works off of constant downs), and his add-ons which were like 15% slowdown if you used both slowdown ones. Freddy was never S tier, not even then! S tier is Nurse and Blight level, dude. There's like 2 killers that even come close, Pyramid Head and Ghoul, I'd say.
I just don't see how y'all play as these killers, the Chuckies and the Freddie's, and call them S. It sure doesn't feel that way from their POV. More like "barely adequate." And me being me, I don't even give them that title. If you're going through impress me with a killer, you'd better be bringing something good to the table. Ghoul was the first in a long time to seem easily accessible, good in general, but falls behind the moment people start employing counterplay.
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@Ember_Hydra said:
I can't turn after scamper at all. There's no map where you have a pallet and window with a straight hall with no way for the survivor to , you know. Turn since you can't after scamper at all.
Majority of the loops where you can scamper the survivor can just run left or right and you can't hit scamper unless we talking about the basement pallet in THE GAME jigsaw map, which they can still outplay you in
i never played Chucky when he got released but this achievement shows clear signs of and old relic. They old achievement such as the 4 man hatch escape, but not this?It wasn't a well thought out change at all. That's why it feels that way. Something cool to separate Chucky from other rush attack killers like Demogorgon or Wesker would've been to give him actually control of his Slice & Dice attack, instead of having your movement locked. He's had that setback in every one of his iterations (except the 180° exploit), and people still called him OP.
The devs really think survivors are stupid, and they balance off that assumption. Because as you said, the only way this attack can possibly function after a Scamper is if the survivors simply run in a straight line, giving you a free hit for no good reason. If you had more control, as I suggested, then the situation would be different. But in its current state, it's literally a worse rush attack in every way compared to Hillbilly's, Demogorgon's, and Wesker's.
I did play Chucky when he released, and man was he crap. Who would've thought a 110% killer would end up being weak? With manual scampering, even with the 2% Haste add-on, you couldn't even get good survivors at loops (110% killer, remember?); they'd always make it around again to the pallet. Same thing can be said about Ghoul's pallet/window vault; that's not a free hit at all, just another chance for the survivor to get another go-around. But yeah, Chucky: Way overestimated on his strength, way overnerfed. Reminds me of old Freddy being put in S tier.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
You can't they removed it from the game.
He means the current version. You can still Scamper, but it's only after you've started your Slice & Dice.
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@AlreadyTracer said:
Just get used to playing injured. He gets the first hit for free but after that his power becomes basically useless at most loops. Literally just Legion with mobility.
Who loses his ability after breaking a pallet. Genius!
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/443699/please-nerf-ghouls-free-hit-range
Attack range def needs a massive nerf, but his generic environment grab range should be brought back to 16 meters
Massively? Would the ability even be usable at that point? Dude, we haven't even been through round 2 of Ghoul nerfs yet. This first round blows, because it makes him more bullyable to good survivors.
And if anything, these changes were very influenced by objective exaggerations of his strength. "He can hit you through walls and have instant cooldowns." Yeah, but he wasn't supposed to have any of that. Those were bugs. You can't just factor something that the killer's not intended to have, and that would obviously get removed very next patch (which it did), into a killer's overall strength.
The environment grab range getting nerfed was simply dumb. Also, the add-on that increased it was reduced to a mere 1 meter bonus, definitely a BHVR stamped add-on (you know, the kind that does basically nothing).
Neither the devs nor the community understand the ripple effect of nerfing. You nerf 1 big thing at a time, and see how it plays out, and THEN you look at nerfing something else if it's not enough. What was just done to Ghoul was like 6 big nerfs all at once. We can't even measure what effect each individual nerf has, or how much each was truly needed (or if any need to be reverted), because they were all thrown in together. Either increase his cooldown OR reduce his auto-aim OR lower his mobility.
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Artist. I guess she's not top of A tier like many people place her, otherwise you'd see her more. It's the cost of the entire chase resetting if you miss with your power, on a power that requires 2 consecutive uses for survivors to lose a health state.
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Maybe a surprise. Quick, everyone delve into the files and find a leak to the Friday The 13th or Predator chapter!
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I'd rather play Skull Merchant than Chucky. He's 110 trash with a choreographed power. And Vecna and Singularity are way too high. They're some of the most frustrating killers to play as in the game. I'd rather play Skull Merchant than them, too. How do you see that Deathslinger and Ghost Face are bottom tier but not that? The way I'm doing mine (tier list), I've got 1 main question when I place them: "What can this killer do?" If they can't do anything, they're going low. If they actually give you reward for your skill and time put in, they go higher.
And, well, let's be transparent. I'm gonna have a critique of everybody's tier list, because it's not the same as mine, and I can't even make up my mind on who goes where.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915414#Comment_3915414
Think their complaint is about how the killer can camp the hatch and still get everything via surrender or forcing the survivor to out themselves via gen (which is what currently happens yes).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/443520/end-game-killer-surrender-is-flawed
While yes, the survivor is pretty much forced to do a gen or get the killer to surrender (don't know what happens with survivors when the killer surrenders) its not an auto loss as 1. doing the gens that are away from said hatch are workable options and 2. if the killer has a brain they'll close the hatch after that first pop while you squirrel away for the door game.
Yeah, I just don't get the "doing the gen reveals your location" mindset in this scenario. The killer's camping the hatch. The moment he moves away, the survivor could potentially slip through and get the hatch. If the killer closes the hatch and then goes for the gen that just got done, there's no guarantee that the survivor isn't gonna be long gone or well hidden nearby, especially since the exits are now powered. Is this a position of power for the killer? Maybe. But shouldn't that be the case when there's 1 survivor left at the very end, and the game needs to come to a close? It feels like people are against killers having advantage no matter WHAT the odds are. "No gens done, sub- 15-second chases, no unhooks. The survivors should still have a chance to escape, riiight?"
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@buggybug said:
They are more quick to kill switch survivor bugs than killers. Remember the Baermar ugly sweater making you 100 quiet on everything? That got kill switch so fast even though it didn't break the game as other bugs would lol.
Well, anything that makes you completely silent is game breaking. If only the devs were consistent between fixing bugs and fixing balance.
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@Pirscher said:
Aura reads are out of control at the moment. The killer sees everything making gameplay way faster, causing faster matches pushing survs to use 'a meta build' and to organise a SWF.. Its all pushing towards getting everything done as quick as possible in order to quickly go next whilst the enjoyment of the game/ the moment dwindles away bit by bit..
Also RIP solo queue still by the way. At least allow repairing of gens to also replenish Distortion tokens, as solos need as much help as they can get
Aura reading can never be out of control. Dude, y'all are literally comparing it to gen defence, instadowns, hexes, everything, and still saying that mere information is the most outrageous thing. The information the killer gets on you is only as effective as his ability to do something with it. If the killer sees you on a gen across the map, who cares? Just run to the nearby loop and loop him. If you're at a broken spot like shack or long wall jungle gym, they could have constant wall hacks and literally nothing about the chase would change, because you can just react to their movements while waiting at check spots. If the killer sees you healing because of Nurse's, go heal further away next time. If he has one of those niche perks that shows your aura, when you're in basement or something random, maybe he should get that hit. I just don't see what's so unstoppable about aura perks. You can still loop, do gens, everything. Nothing about the core gameplay changes.
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They just want the stuff you use on the game to be balanced, non-abusable, and encourage actual gameplay. Stealth is basically non-gameplay in a game about chases. If you're not running around leaving scratch marks or bothering crows, there's physically nothing the killer can do to even find you, except scouring the whole map and all its lockers for 5 minutes. That's why 1) your teammates die so quickly or get tunneled, because you're not taking your share of the chases, and 2) why killers bring aura perks. If they got to see your aura randomly crouched, not doing anything, that's a free hit to them, and probably a free down considering you're practicing your stealth instead of your chase.
There still are aura hiding perks in the game, as well as lockers. Distortion may be nerfed, requiring you to take actual chases, but its effect is the same. And nothing has changed about Boon: Shadowstep or Off The Record. Have you tried using those? Don't use Sole Survivor; it's just a selfish perk. And Object Of Obsession can actually turn the killer's aura reading against them, because anytime they can see your aura, you can see theirs, AND you get an action boost. If you're the obsession, you get to see each other's aura for 3 seconds, every 30 seconds. It's messed me up sometimes when I've had to hide, but it's helped me a lot more than it's hurt me.
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If you remove MMR, there will be essentially no change for solo survivor. You'll still consistently get matches where you have to carry the whole team on your back. On killer, maybe it'll be less sweaty, idk. But that's why I'd be against that change, because at best nothing changes, and at worst it becomes even more unpredictable. And this MMR is based (loosely) off kills and escapes. If you don't want killers to just be playing to maximize their kills, change the incentives or the win conditions to be about hooks or something else.
As I've said before, we had an almost perfect MMR system, at least compared to now, when MMR first dropped. I had been winning like crazy with Demogorgon before it dropped, and so when it came I was constantly put against sweaty survivors, until naturally I went to a less sweaty level. When I started winning more again, I went back up. That's how it should work, and it should put players of similar win/loss ratios and hours played with each other. I don't care if we have to wait a minute for queues; we do that anyway right now. I want it to be accurate rather than fast and convenient.
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@Hexonthebeach said:
If you haven't done already. Try killer and see the game from both sides.
You can play competitive and still have fun.
This is the single best piece of advice for people who want to get better at the game. Many critiques against killer are 1-dimensional, because the person either hasn't played killer before, or they got clueless survivors for 2-3 matches and said, "See? OP." If you actually understand firsthand the limits of what the other side can do, you can start to counterplay them better. It's like, "I know this Wraith wants to 99' his uncloak, make me drop the pallet, and then break it without having to uncloak/recloak. So what if I just stood there and didn't drop it, calling his bluff?" You can get in killers' heads and make them start second guessing/mindgaming themselves. As killer, it's not as simple, because you'll know what vaults you can and can't get as survivor, and then a survivor randomly gets a fast/medium vault that you couldn't punish for some reason. Like, I'd never be able to get some of the vaults these people do. And there's such a variability in gen speed, you never know for sure if the gens will be done in 5 minutes or 10, unless you're clearly already winning. But by and large, playing the other side massively helps with getting good at the game.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
It doesn't help that the servers are utterly trash and need a higher tick rate/better netcode and the recent killer has zero interaction.
I do think your emotions are valid, the game is very very frustrating for casual players right now, which has a huge hand in how you feel too. So most importantly, don't blame yourself, sure you can handle them better, we all can but you're handling it healthy by talking about how the game feels to play too.
It's just DBD rn, the devs need to do more to make Survivor a more fun experience that actually interacts with the killer.Well, what more interaction are you looking for? Having a killer who's a big threat in chase, and then being able to counterplay him, is exactly what that is. For people wanting fun, or challenge, or to win, that checks all of those boxes. But if you're looking for a really, really casual experience, the current matchmaking system is not the best for putting you against like-minded, like-experienced killers. It's always a mismatch.
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@Nazzzak said:
Comes down to learning to manage your emotions. Lots of people never really learn how to and it can be hard to learn the older you are. Managing emotions is how many people are able to play games casually without getting tilted. If you're serious about wanting to change your mindset, then you can find plenty of mindfulness apps online that can help you be more aware of how you're feeling and make better judgement calls. The best judgement call you can make in gaming is recognising when you need to turn the game off and have a break. Games shouldn't be upsetting.
Yeah, I still get mad at my matches sometimes. But when it gets bad enough, I just laugh or satirize it off. Like, "Yep, you can just afford to follow the killer around the whole time!" Or, "Yep, keep BM'ing me on the ground, because you were getting destroyed until people started randomly giving up." Mostly I've just been switching over to Minecraft single player. Much more peaceful.
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Yeah, people like to pretend that this game is ultra casual "party game" random fun time, but then all they do is cry about balance. If you complain about balance, that means you do care about winning, you're playing to win, and therefore give up your status as a casual player. That doesn't auto- make you pro. You just become a scrub, like me. After more learning and experience, and trying and failing, only then do you start to become a veteran player, and have actually good, informed takes. Unfortunately most just skip all that, and less than 100 hours in start saying, "Wraith and Freddy are way overpowered. I can't last 15 seconds in chase." Totally a result of those killers' level of strength, right? I've tried to advocate better matchmaking, so that they go against other actual learners, and not just a really good killer with crappy teammates all the time. But no, the devs and community have decided that the MMR system is perfect as is, and can't possibly have a negative effect on match quality.
If ever I had the ability to switch back to playing more casual, I've lost it at this point. When you suffer enough landslide losses from a completely imbalanced game state, and then people say it can only be your fault if you lost, you tend to do everything you can to avoid losing (giving a bad performance). Either I tunnel, or I forget to tunnel, and usually the latter costs me what should have been a win. Whenever I intentionally don't tunnel at all, it feels physically bad, because I can't forget that I'm making the worst possible play. And I've always found it strange that 1) you get BM'd even if you play "the correct"/nice way, and that 2) using optimal strategies that increase your kill count gets mocked as being "cheap" or "skilless." Try arguing that in any other competitive online game, I dare you. You'll wonder why people are laughing.
You're more focused on survivor. I have plenty of experience there, too. In solo, even. You might need, say, 2000 hours to really get the role. I thought I knew it all, about 2000 hours ago, and now I'm like "I didn't know anything." Like I said, as long as this MMR system keeps putting "whatevs" survivor players consistently against a good killer, the match result is completely out of your hands as a solo. Either you manage to carry the whole team, which gets old after like 2 matches, or despite all your efforts you just all die anyway. So you have to minimize risk of being killed yourself, while maximizing gen efficiency and chase length. If you often fall prey to tunneling, use anti-tunnel and get good at looping. If your teammates are the target instead, use We'll Make It to heal them, which at least gives them a fighting chance, whether they've got anti-tunnel themselves or not. I know most like to say, "The killer is just at hook during unhook, hits through their BT and downs them again," but I've literally never seen this occur even once. The killer either downs the unhooker and then goes for the unhooked, or waits out the base BT anyway. Any way you cut it, the gens need to be flying. There's 4 survivors; please use that to your advantage. If the team keeps having large sections of time where not 1 person is on a gen, it's a skill issue. Either they're not being touched for no reason, or the survivors are legit feeding the killer downs. Exhaustion perks and stuff that lets you see the killer's aura, or toolboxes to repair gens faster, or medkits to heal faster, or flashlights to cheat a killer of their down, all massively help with survivability.
So again, try as you might, sometimes your team just doesn't have what it takes, and you'll lose. Not your fault. But I have a feeling that a lot of people complaining about survivor are those kinds of teammates. We have people who admit to straight-up DC'ing against multiple specific killers because, "Don't like that killah! Rage quit!" This is why I advocate for strict DC penalties, and better matchmaking so that those who play casual/suboptimal and those who play to win can be put in different queues, instead of the current mishmashed abomination. It would also help with everyone understanding where each other are coming from. Having no ranks, and having grades and MMR hidden to confuse players, everyone thinks they're diamond when they're actually bronze. I know it's to protect people from feeling... inadequate? Noobish? But you know, all that's done is cause chaos, and created barriers between players debating balance.
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@Suei said:
His non-existent cooldowns are very problematic
They're not instant! I don't know why y'all keep saying that. It's just faster, as in not unbearably slow like the rest of the cast.
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
This killer is the reason why I'm so burnt out of the game right now, and it's every match. All it takes to win with this killer is to jump to a survivor and insta-cancel with your power, and there's no chance for the survivor to make any distance, if you have no resources available you might as well just give up.
The nerfs did absolutely nothing, Ghoul can still traverse the map at an insane rate, easily injure survivors, and destroy any chances at making distance, it's not fair, and it's flat out boring, I'm tired of versing the same thing every match.
I'm trying to also farm blood points, but all these Ghoul's are doing are jumping right back to the hook to tunnel me out, one moment they are across the map, then the moment they hear the unhook notification they are right back at the hook, how is this fun?
If you're on a small map, consider it done, no one's escaping, if you're on a big map like Mother's Dwelling maybe, but still very annoying to deal with considering he can just traverse the map in a blink of an eye, with such a short cooldown.
Wanna try to loop also? Ghoul can also vault pallets, or just close in the distance, including body blocking a pallet or window by jumping to it so the survivor has no chance, very fun and engaging.
And Ghoul has a base speed of 4.6 which is so stupid, why does the Ghoul need that when they also have a stupidly insane map traverse power, as if they weren't strong enough, they need to nerf it down to 4.4.
But in all seriousness, how in the world are you supposed to counter Ghoul? I'm in serious need of help with versing Ghoul; actual tips are appreciated rather than troll comments. I'm not the best looper I'm going to admit, so some other players will be better at versing Ghoul than players like me, so any experienced loopers that have any tips please share!
Oh, well if you just assume that you have "no" resources every time, which take tons of time for the killer to break, then every killer is technically OP!
You take a look at those nerfs, and honestly say it didn't do anything. Really? He was already somewhat clunky before. Do y'all ever even play the killers y'all complain about? His movement, definitely nerfed, as is his power in general, since the devs force him to lose a token upon pallet break, which is a terrible design precedent. I was already saying, "If you make him worse than he is now, he will lose his ability to compete with good survivors." And so he has! As far as I'm concerned, he's destroyed. He's done.
Bringing up blood points is grounds for writing off someone's complaint, just saying. It has nothing to do with balance.
And what killers are you facing anyway, in comparison to your team? So the killer's just coming back to hook every time, basically guaranteeing no real pressure on the other 3 players. What are they doing in the meantime? Those 5 gens should be done. And if tunneling is that effective, I expect to say the complainers running all the anti-tunnel perks at their disposal. Already, you can get basically instant heals off hook with We'll Make It, and that new survivor's perks isn't even in the game yet.
The maps aren't small. They're just not huge like they historically have been. Still big enough for any kind of gen split to be an instant loss for the killer. Sure, he can bound through a great deal of it with 2-3 tokens, but then he's on cooldown for chase.
Ghoul's anti-loop also isn't that good. I guarantee that if you just continue running the loop normally after he vaults, you still make it back to the pallet 9/10 times. I've seen many people complaining about this who literally just hold forward after he slides over, which he's designed to counter, or they move left and right, essentially making no distance on the loop while he's sliding. It's all on the survivors to mess up.
Making a killer 110% speed instantly kills them, and I don't even have to explain why. The game isn't balanced for the killers who ARE 115%, even those with mobility abilities. Play a 110% killer, or any M1 killer, and feel how bad and slow it is to chase someone.
You can counter Ghoul before anything even happens in-match, by equipping Resilience and/or Made For This. Like Legion, he's gonna get that easy injure. That doesn't make him OP. You simply take that into account, and use it against him. I see a lot of people constantly healing vs him: bad play. He can also body block you by jumping ahead of you at a loop or building, so just position your body between where you're trying to go and where he's coming from, and he won't be able to do that. It's not foolproof, because he's gonna try to move in a way that counters your counter maneuver, but it's something. And like any killer who you just fall apart vs in chase, either take the chases until you get better, or hide vs them.
That's really all I've got. From someone who enjoys playing killer more, I just don't see what y'all are seeing. I saw a pretty well designed killer, now made bullyable by good survivors if he wasn't already. He's accessible, may be y'all's frustration. Most of his techs are accessible to learners and to console players, and don't take 1000 hours to learn. Top Ghouls will always do fine with him, because they're going to learn those crazier bound techs whether it's viable or not, and that'll usually give them the edge/surprise factor to do decently/more than decent. But for all other players, these current and future nerfs just killed him.
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Noob take. The hook spacing, whether it's been changed recently or whatnot, is 'fine.' You can still sabotage a hook, and the killer will probably have to drop their survivor since they can't make the next one. The thing about sabotaging and Boil Over is that you're not supposed to be able to 1v1 the killer with those, like "Oh, I just do this thing, and it denies the killer the reward of his down (the hook)." No, that's not balanced at all.
If anything, the hook spacing has been annoying as ever lately, with me having to rely on Agitation sometimes, else the survivors would be like 1 second from wiggling off. The hook spacing is still bad for killer. Can y'all not see that?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914989#Comment_3914989
Come on, everyone knows that Killers dont slug because of Hook Deadzones.
Okay, so it's a 1-dimensional, emotional issue to you. Hook deadzones do actually happen still. It's usually like, "Okay, basement hooks are there, so we're just not gonna put any others for 100 meters. You had to drop the survivors or they wiggled off? Too bad." I've seen it in Swamp, Midwich, Borgo, etc. And in the instances where it isn't strictly the map RNG, the blame turns towards hooks destroying themselves. You might be thinking, "Wait, that's not a thing anymore. The devs fixed it." They fixed hooks not being perma-destroyed. But they really shouldn't be destroyed at all. Sometimes you down someone near that same spot in less than a minute, and now you've got to take them to a far hook, or there aren't any close ones. The hooks being destroyed (bar sabotaging) is just a senseless annoyance to the killer player which serves no real purpose.
Killers slugging for pressure or for an early win, that's a topic for another time.
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@joeyspeehole said:
I’m so numb now, you might as well play skull merchant. I’ll give you the kill.
Then why queue up? Dude, you cannot do that. The game is based around the 4v1, not the 3v1. You owe your teammates your participation.
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After the matches today, I'm just gonna say all killers in Z tier (against good survivors). Ask me again when I'm in a better mood, and maybe it'll be different.
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Singularity needs to be in bottom tier. Like, how do you get ANYTHING going with that killer?
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@SeriousRain said:
I am tired boss, can I get some other killers? My past 20 games are like 16 ghouls like I get he is fun but come on…
Sometimes you just have to deal with the killer at hand. Sorry that they're inconveniencing you while trying to kill you.
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
The anti camp is a joke, it was better off with a non nerfed ds and bt. The changes they made only made things worse not better.
DS will never be nerfed enough with its current effect. Forget the duration of the stun. The fact that you're stunning the killer and forcing him to do a 4th chase to kill you, after getting downed, is a game breaking effect.
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What is this, now? "Range camping"? The killer's camping just by existing on the map?
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@mecca said:
I mean, as unbalanced as the game is, I'm surprised this is a question.
The question should be, how does anyone even want to play survivor in the first place.
But complaining about survivor doesn't solve the issue. If they're just gonna rage quit every time, why even play the game? No, they need massive penalties for disconnecting on their team. Otherwise, this will keep happening. We need a rage quitter queue, to where they can keep rage quitting against each other, so the rest of us can actually play the game.
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You DON'T know what you're talking about. It has nothing to do with skill. And the explosion sound is map-wide, not location specific, and only the killer sees where their hex was, through the sound bubble.
What this change does is make the game baby mode easy for solo noobs, because for some reason the only person who cleansed the hex that activated Pentimento wouldn't go back and re-cleanse it. No, that would be using their head. So to remedy that, the devs now want to give the whole team that information for free. People like to talk about free stuff in this game. That right there is free.
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@Neaxolotl said:
Only actual second chance is the hatch and gate power up after it is closed, tbh
Yeah, that's the cheapest thing. I beat you. Oh, wait. You have a chance at a random free escape now. I closed it. Now I've got you for sure, right? Oh, what? Doing that automatically powers the exit gates, even though you didn't even do 2 gens as a team? Wow, so fair.
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@BreadSilence said:
i never understood this whole argument about survivors having so many "second chance" perks in the first place because you mean to tell me that the role that's literally called SURVIVOR has perks and mechanics that are meant to help them (wait for it) SURVIVE!? Le gasp
but also, the real main reason why Survivors have so many "second chance" perks and not Killers is quite simple.
Because unlike survivors, killers can't:
- Die
- Get tunneled out of the match in 3 minutes or less while getting minimal bloodpoints and a miserable experience
- Facecamped to death by Bubba
- Get slugged and left to bleed out on the ground for 4 minutes
As killer you don't have to worry about any of this happening to you when loading into a match as you control the flow/direction of things. And even if you have a rough match as killer, in my experience you still walk away with usually more bloodpoints than at least 2-3 of the survivors
You're bringing up all these extreme, emotional scenarios to justify survivors having broken stuff. The fact you're bringing up blood points screams casual. If not that, then the suggestion that killer controls match flow. Sure, the killer trying to tunnel someone out puts pressure on the team, assuming they want to get all 4 out, but what's the response to that? Gen rushing. They were gonna gen rush the killer regardless! What is a killer to do against a team that can do all gens in, let's be generous and say, 7 minutes? The killer's chases are like 30 seconds minimum, not even counting the downtime of carrying to hook, finding the next survivor, and/or kicking the gens. He's gonna have like 5 hooks by the time all the gens are done, and that's with him playing the best he possibly can.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/443277/kagune-mark
… Because Circle of Healing, if one Survivor brought it, would give people like three perks for free if they stood in an area and completely gutted hit and run playstyles when it was at its strongest. And it stacked with other effects.
The Ghoul's power can… get a hit with deep wound. And is part of the Killer's basekit.
This is the most bizarre case of whataboutery I've seen for a long time.
Yeah, they're just like "He gets easy injures!" Yeah, and so what? Legion, Deathslinger, Twins, they can all do the same. Doesn't make them S tier. "B-but he has a mobility ability!" While that's given Hillbilly and Blight an advantage over their peers, that doesn't make them infallible either. People don't like the idea of a challenging killer to go against. They did it with Spirit, with Twins, with Skull Merchant, and now with Ghoul, where they don't even want to learn the counterplay, claim that there isn't any, and instead want the devs to nerf all the difficulty away. Hmm, I wonder how well that would work out for the game if killers got the same preferential, least common denominator treatment. "You know what? I don't feel like walking across big maps. Give every killer a teleport. And while you're at it, delete the shack and jungle gym tiles from the game." That's what it would be like, and it isn't currently, and yet survivors have the guts to say it's a killer sided game, when they're the ones getting "healthy" nerfs every single patch.
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Happens all the time.
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It's hard to say. Killers should be able to be faster if it takes their whole build like it does, especially since it kind of fixes the broken loops in the game. But if it's a trade-off that kills the survivor Haste abuse, I'll take it. Nobody likes chasing a survivor for 2 minutes+ guaranteed because they had a perk. This is why you can't make a direct comparison between a killer having Haste and a survivor having it. With the exception of NOED, or looping around a done gen with Batteries Included, killers don't really have infinite Haste capability, but survivors with Made For This, Hope, Dark Theory, Blood Pact, they can pretty much go infinite. The loops are not designed for survivors to be going faster than base speed, especially god loops which under those circumstances become infinites. But killer is designed (at least theoretically) to catch survivors.