RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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Because when they tested fully accurate MMR, the best players just spent most of their time playing queuing simulator instead. Which is pretty bad, because you don't just punish the sweaty players that way, you also just coincidentally get the ones who're very good, and very dedicated.
So, BHVR relaxed it to make sure that the game didn't get into the super awkward situation of "the people most invested in our game can't play our game".
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@WolfePhD said:
I know I am late to the party on this thread, but I still want to give my thoughts and input.
More specifically, I do not understand why ONE survey published at ONE point in time is used to draw conclusions about developer thoughts and behavior. Don’t you think any reasonable conclusion should be based on more than ONE piece of evidence?
After taking the survey, it is clear to me that the developers are looking at improving the survivor gameplay experience to reduce churn. The survey had a Survivor focus. This makes complete sense to me. In every trial, there are 5 players. 4 of the 5 players are Survivors. It stands to reason that you would FIRST look at how to make 4/5 people not quit the game.
This does not mean that Killers are unwanted. This does not mean that Killers are unloved. The 5th player is NOT left out. They are still cared about. But change does not happen overnight. We have to start somewhere.
The goal is to make all five people happy. I would rather start by improving QoL for 4. QoL for the 5th is still important, just lower priority. When the next Survey drops and it has a Killer focus, I hope we all remember this conversation and how silly we looked trying to draw meaning from something so simple.
As I said, I think the problem is that although they've clearly made the survey asking about what they want to address in the immediate future… they skipped the part about asking "so, do you play survivor a lot? Did you used to play survivor a lot?" It feels like a very important thing to miss when most of your survey is geared towards the survivor experience.
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Honestly, playing him feels very feast or famine. Either you do well (and have the minor problem of a power that definitely punishes you more for hooking than slugging), or the EMP usage is great and you spend most of the game with no power. Especially on an indoor map.
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I'm less annoyed at the intentional bias, given they might've just wanted the data, and more that on top of that they've basically poisoned their own results by not giving away to filter out irrelevant feedback.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916677#Comment_3916677
There’s one question about why you took a break from the game or something, and the answer options are all survivor sided like killer power/perks too strong, and nothing about why a killer player might have stopped playing.
It does give an insight into the devs mindset that the killer players are not as important.If nothing else, it's a comical oversight. I think I took a break after 6.6.X? So right before DH finally stopped being so annoyingly common and Bloodwebs got less frustrating to level.
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Well, for a start, it doesn't have to be done in the event mode.
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I've seen the surrender option show up when I was just rotating hooks but the Survivors were in a constant loop of rescue → heal. It was definitely… uh, something. I was winning, but the other side was doing so badly that because I wasn't quite done the game asked me if I wanted to quit…
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I mean, probably not; there aren't a ton of them and in the end it's a camera issue. Same as I don't think we're ever getting a change to "can't pick up survivor, there's a pallet/vault to interact with there instead". Got to sacrifice your camera positioning to get the right action, tactical reasons be damned.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916319#Comment_3916319
yeah my bone isn’t with full aura, but the lack of a viable counter to it. Because it eats into time to counter all the aura. Of course they’re coming for aura now that distortion can’t be blamed. Full aura is a heavy time advantage sure you can run other things that also buy time, but the problem is the lack of a viable counter to it. Because working at the steps to counter aura just takes too much time away from everything, and well you can’t control your whole team. If only there was a perk that countered it for everyone instead of self.
I mean, here's the question: should there be a viable counter to it? Especially one as easily accessible as one perk?
The answer's actually really simple: no, there shouldn't. Remember, the game is asymmetrical. The Killer does need some advantages, which includes "I don't get reduced to playing perkless while survivors have most of their build left because there's a perfect counter that gets amazing value". If distortion was strong enough to negate four perks, it's overwhelming against one perk, and then what? Spies has to be meta in an eight year throwback?
Even a full hex build, which can be disabled, does theoretically get value from wasting time (map spawns being what they are, though…)
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915941#Comment_3915941
I've always felt they were strong. I never really understood the weak argument for them.
Bugs, more bugs, the fact they were initially helpless against lockers because Victor couldn't do anything, and even now you do occasionally get the bizarreness that is "someone took my power hostage for a while".
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I'm not sure what we're supposed to make of the stats when the very limited info we've given apparently leads to the conclusion that the Twins need a nerf, of all things.
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Well, fundamentally, a Killer whose entire build is aura perks shouldn't be countered by Survivors running distortion. Because then the Survivor stealth always wins, right? You'd have three perks to do the rest of the stealth side of things, and in most games the overwhelming advantage of having at least a vague idea, and often a very definite idea, where the Killer is in order to hide. Or even just take any three other perks and be very good at hiding.
Yet its complete OK for lightborn to completely negate flashlights and blind perks
Well, yeah: the Killer takes 1/4 of their build to negate one item or two perks they can't even know are coming. And if you're running something like Residual Manifest, well, then you don't even need to start with a flashlight and the Killer was just gambling. 1/4 of a perk loadout to negate: 1 item out of 4 and 0 out of 16 perks.
The only time it seems egregious is if everyone has brought a flashlight, but usually that means last-second build swaps to try and get one over so even if it took four perks there'd be no time to equip them anyway.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915699#Comment_3915699
You get similar rewards, but they're lesser.
There's less positional advantage and there's much less time pressure to go save when you're slugging someone, hooks provide better rewards on that front.
Slugging is also much, much more vulnerable to coordinated play and counterpick perks. Just the single perk Unbreakable changes slugging from "moderately less rewards in exchange for more time efficiency" to "absolutely zero reward and a pure timesink".
Hooks are also much faster to eliminate someone with. Three hooks and you're dead, realistically on most survivors in most games that's three chases. Slugging takes four accumulated minutes, and there's a lot of variation on how many chases that'll be. Even looking at uninterrupted timers, slugging takes almost twice as long.
The current headache is actually that slugging provides uneven rewards. Against uncoordinated solo queue players it looks like hooking is an obsolete relic of the past. Against more coordinated and especially more prepared groups, it's a situational tool that couldn't ever hope to replace hooking.
Mmm. Although, the time taken to eliminate someone via slugging isn't really the important factor, is it? Bleeding people out is rarely the winning play.
The uneven rewards comes into play for tunnelling in a similarly funny manner. If slugging is a bad choice, tunnelling is a (comparatively) good one. Because unless it's a very co-ordinated group (and honestly, that's such a small number it's not really the consideration here), that's more likely to force misplays.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915686#Comment_3915686
Those timesinks you talk about - the pickup, the walk to a hook, the hook animation - are spent setting up your pressure, is the crucial thing missing from your rundown.
When you have a survivor on the hook, you can start getting the ball rolling properly. Assuming you know where to go for a chase (which you should, either through base tracking or perks- downtime spent searching for survivors is a critical mistake often made), you can reliably set up a situation where, for a brief moment, gen repair is slowed by 75%.
The survivor on hook can't do gens, obviously. The survivor you're chasing can't do gens either, also obviously. The important part is that someone else has to come off to save the survivor on the hook, and they can't do gens either. The travel time to the hook, unhook animation, possibly a heal, and then travel time back to their gen adds up.
This is the gold standard for killer while everyone's alive, it's the best situation you can be in without some extra objective occupying the fourth survivor. Get the down before the save happens and you're doing even better, though that part can be unreliable.
Hooking very much 100% gives you something even if it isn't eliminating a survivor. It sets up the macro game for killer, it's vitally important to good killer play in general. Obviously sometimes you'd deviate from it, sometimes slugging is better, but by default you're aiming to maximise pressure from hooks.
The balance problem is: you also get basically all of that for slugging someone. And that's why hooking loses out on pure time efficiency.
Which is what gives us the current headache; not hooking too easily slides into being better than hooking, and when hooking is good it also leads to less-fun outcomes.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888048#Comment_3888048
Splitting gens is kinda forced due to gen regression perks, and even then only really effective against low mobility killers. But granted, somewhat of an issue(altho there are basekit counters to it, otherwise low mobility killers wouldnt have killrates above 2.5 on average).
Saboing is not something you can rely on much and requires quite a few perks and specific addons to happen more than once a game succesfully. Slugging and tunnelling does not require any of that.
I would be 10000x more okay with tunnelling and slugging if it actively relied on perks to be consistently viable, but its not. It's basekit.
Anti-camp isnt strong, anti-tunnelling isnt strong, anti-slugging isnt strong, otherwise camping, tunnelling and slugging wouldnt be an issue, now would it?
And hooking is more viable than ever in DBD history, wdym? The issue is that people like you just hook willy-nilly on the closest hook whenever you hook. Go take strategic hooks, go that extra 5 second time investment so survivors are forced to hooktrade or end up multiple people injured.
"all of these strats are meta cus average player doesnt learn counterplay"
Except the same can be true of anti-camp(which only works if you camp), anti-tunnel(which only works if you tunnel) and anti-slug(which only works if you slug). Not even talking about how if tunnelling is not viable unless as a last resort, anti-tunnel perks will also be basically non-existant in use. Right now they are top 10 because of how viable tunnelling is as a normal stratSaboing is not something you can rely on much and requires quite a few perks and specific addons to happen more than once a game successfully.
And once a game is, already, game changing. If someone gets away without being hooked after being chased and downed – if the game is balanced around 12 hooks, making it 13 is a win. It's also like a sneaky DS if someone wouldn't have been on a gen anyway: time is the only resource a Killer has. Another extra chase is massive.
A single extra sabo tends to bring out slugging (or tunnelling if it's one Survivor) ASAP because it's too much of a throw to engage with hooking when you're going to fail. Ditto for dedicated breakout. The best thing to do is turn altruism against Survs then and just bleed someone out.
And hooking is more viable than ever in DBD history, wdym? The issue is that people like you just hook willy-nilly on the closest hook whenever you hook. Go take strategic hooks, go that extra 5 second time investment so survivors are forced to hooktrade or end up multiple people injured.
Have you looked at default hook spread any time recently…? In a lot of maps, you don't have multiple hooks to go for if you don't want someone to have a good chance of wiggling free (see above for that being a game changer).
The thing that makes hooking not viable is… unless you're getting someone out, it doesn't get a Killer a lot. Progressing the win condition doesn't make it easier to win. It makes it harder.
Think about that one. You have a pickup animation, walking to the hook, a hook animation – time not spent putting pressure on other survivors. If that's not a kill, you're almost wasting time unless you have hook perks that recoup that time investment and more. Or unless you've got a way to make the hooking itself get time back… basement builds, proxy camping, etc. And that's not even counting that the actual hooking of someone is the most vulnerable you can be to time wastes: body blocking, breakout, sabo, flashlight saves, flashbangs, etc.
The altruism when people go for those plays also throws matches, when done to excess, but this kind of highlights the problem here: hooking is only the good choice when other people are being dumb. Otherwise, it's a time sink once you take eliminating a player out of the equation.
And hooking going wrong? Well, there's the time problem again.
(Mind, my favourite way to play is currently fire up + forever entwined + brutal + bamboozle/enduring because 'do things fast' is fun with a mobility Killer, but that doesn't mean I can't see the problems when I'm not)
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I don't like the token one, but that's less because of its effect and more because it's random power trivia. If you pick up and play a Killer, you shouldn't need to go wiki-diving in a couple of months to work out "why is my power on cooldown when I didn't use it"?
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@joeyspeehole said:
Can someone please explain to me how a complete rework of The Ghoul's second consecutive leap survivor attack is not warranted, yet nerfing Boon: Circle of Healing was?
… Because Circle of Healing, if one Survivor brought it, would give people like three perks for free if they stood in an area and completely gutted hit and run playstyles when it was at its strongest. And it stacked with other effects.
The Ghoul's power can… get a hit with deep wound. And is part of the Killer's basekit.
This is the most bizarre case of whataboutery I've seen for a long time.
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@joeyspeehole said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912940#Comment_3912940
Or simply have the HUD display the person as healthy.
The UI in a multiplayer game should never be lying.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913693#Comment_3913693
I feel most people have grown too used to his original range. As someone who rarely played him before the nerf, it still feels great. That's why it’s best not to play too much with an OP killer; they are bound to get nerfed. There is no clunkiness at all. I doubt they will revert it.
Eh, it kind of bothers me on a conceptual level given how much of the game comes in increments of 8m and it's a movement power, but that's just
Being annoyed. That and questioning why BHVR felt the need to nerf the add-on at the same time (is old range with only one add-on and you removed one of the CD add-ons that bad? We shall never know), because 'incremental approach' is seemingly an unknown phrase.
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"There's been a nerf live for less than ten hours. I want to see another nerf already before we see if this one balances kill rates."
If the timed event gets any shorter, the problems with it already not showing up will get a million times worse.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913607#Comment_3913607
Wesker has the same thing? Should the Ghoul get special treatment?
Without using the iri addon to break them? Because I can't see a trivial place to look that up.
And no, if he does, I think it shouldn't be in a game. It's just needlessly opaque. :T
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I do find myself scratching my head at "if you break a pallet, your power goes on CD". Is this in the power tooltip, or are we, like… putting in extra-weird power interactions which make no intuitive sense now?
Because I cannot find myself ever expecting a power that vaults a pallet to then have a CD for breaking one.
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@Waynesl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911869#Comment_3911869
Kaneki still has bugs that were in the PTB to live, Auto aim that is extremely easy to hit, his Grab attack goes through walls, his recovery is insanely short and addons to make it even shorter.
The ghoul is extremely fun for killer players but extremely unfun and uncounterable for Survivors. Right now you need to address these issues and these bad PTB survivor perks
Only one of those is a bug, and that's when the recovery glitches shorter...
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@tjt85 said:
Personally, I'm not sure sending Killers to RPD is the gotcha a lot of Survivors think it is.
I've been sent to RPD so many times in both my Killer and Survivor games that there isn't a map I don't know better in the game. Besides, as a Legion main it can often be a pretty happy hunting ground for me (though I know other Killers like Trapper, Billy and Huntress suffer terribly on those maps).
I genuinely LOVE getting this map as Legion. And if it's to counter Kaneki... Well, I've not faced many Ghouls that've struggled on any maps, frankly. I think they're the third best Killer in the game right now.
No matter how many times I get sent there, I always get lost on… is it West Wing? Trying to get from the exterior exit gate to the main room. Go up the stairs, and yet, I keep going through the corridors expecting a left turn to have materialised somewhere. Brain just turns off when I play it. xD
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They don't need to be strong, but if they do something unique, that's great.
But unlike everyone else: FFS, don't make it something like Alucard's Shield (or the knight's iri banner if the effect was split). "Hey, here's your rarest addon, okay? It's only sort of useful if you catch Survivors hanging out in the exit gate". Um… thanks. If I do well, I don't even get my fun effect? Yay?
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911469#Comment_3911469
I get it, but why bother even queueing up right now? On the off chance it's not the Ghoul?
Changes are almost certainly coming, but it's been like 10 days.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911494#Comment_3911494
To be fair, the last few killers released strong and remained very strong after they were changed. I don't think releasing killers OP and then nerfing them into the ground is a thing.
Kaneki will be nerfed, but not into the ground. He'll still be plenty strong, imo.
"They haven't made sweeping changes to the Killer when it hasn't been live for two weeks" is not an unreasonable thing for BHVR to do. For one, you're stuck with a lot of unreliable release data that changes are no good in, then the event came out and made a mess of things in its own way.
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Ah, RPD, the most Hold W of Hold W maps. I swear half the people who take me there never even want to use the good pallets, just run in a straight line. I'm… not sure what they plan to achieve when I'm playing someone that does have the ability to catch up.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909648#Comment_3909648
Escape Cake/Survivor pudding affects ALL BP gains. Bloodshot Eye only counts for Blood Moon Scoring Events (which are piddly AF this event.)
Also the way it works is each offering increases that by +100% (or whatever) so like 5 Bloody Party STreamers would give you 600% of normal BP, as opposed to 100% which would be normal. It increases you final match score by whatever percent., double, triple, quadruple, so on. So, that's why I said even a +25% to EVERYTHING is better than +100% to just the Blood Moon Scoring stuff.Yeah, but the part I'm saying is that I think BPS and cakes are applied after the game, additively with any other % modifiers. But the event item is applied during the game and increases the BP gained from the actual scoring event (from when I was paying attention to the exact numbers). So, the BP gain from the bloodshot eye is then multiplicative with the total event BP bonus.
Or, a BPS is another +100% to your score after. A Bloodshot Eye is actually another +275% to the relevant category – which can be a pretty big chunk as a Killer. Unless you're co-ordinating so everyone's bringing BPS or anniversary capes, the extra 10k from hooking everyone with an eye actually works out to another +27.5k solo, even without kicking generators or cans or hitting people carrying cans etc., which is pretty much an entire game's score of itself.
And saves BPS for later.
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It's happened. Sometimes sheer incompetence on my part, sometimes I'm trying a new Killer and get a terrible map for learning them (singularity on an indoor map stands out) on top of still unlocking things, and - not so much now but definitely in the past - there was the eternal pain of teams bringing three oak offerings and rpd or eyrie or something. Doesn't matter what you can do in chase if it's impossible to hook someone or keep them down (more recently exponential + breakout squads, but then there was the boil over era etc.) but those don't feel like they should count sometimes.
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Yeah, I was going through tonight and paying more attention. I'd get levels with two or more umbrellas, and then go ten or something without any coffee. It was… bizarre.
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Yeah, I'm getting one or two umbrellas per bloodweb level. Level 34 on this prestige, and the only coffee I've seen was from a mystery box.
Finally saw one in the wild on level 36.
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Do we get basekit Zanshin Tactics, then? Knowing which resources are used and how tiles have spawned without even looking at them is way better than most other basekit proposals I've ever seen.
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Mmmm, I thought the low coffee was just because I was only picking up the umbrellas deliberately; I'll definitely pay more attention. I have way more umbrellas than coffee but I thought that was from letting the auto-buy handle my commons and uncommons.
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The short version is "indoor maps". Ghoul's thing is mobility, but he's super easily caught up on obstacles like doorways, so being in a cramped environment automatically inhibits a lot of his power, and indoor areas are also great for small, sharp turns that cut off Line of Sight. That also goes for "worst place for him to chase you in outdoor maps".
@SomeGuy1246 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/442595/what-are-the-worst-maps-for-the-ghoul
He's just miserable, zero fun to play against at all. Most of the time I see survivor mains complain about a new killer, I brush it off, even though I'm a solo surv main. I find a lot of complaints about "OP killers" overblown and not accurate.Personally, depending on the map, I find versing him quite fun, forcing a weird pathing in some maps, or forcing 50/50 with great pathing and playing short sides is pretty interesting.
What I find "always" frustrating tho is the "low skill ceiling and brain power" the killer requires compared to other killers to create such pressure. It really feels like as survivors you have to sweat your @ss off while the killer is maybe chilling with a smoothie playing while watching an otzdarva video on his second screen. Even more true for the p@ssies playing bamboozle / fireup, speed breaking pallet zoning builds, and totem builds. Idk tho, maybe just me.
Are you… asking for meta slowdown builds?
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@UknownShredder said:
Ive been playing a couple of events and i dont know what is going on really. Barely any interactions with survivors at all. feels like i am running with 0 perks and that gens are done quicker. Can someone explain to me what this is ?
Also, not only are they faster, but people just aren't going to be on gens much, so working out where anyone is without running a bunch of info perks can be… tricky.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909542#Comment_3909542
Then bring Escape Cake/Survivor Pudding. It's STILL better than the Bloodshot Eye. Hell, a Green Envelope is better than the Bloodshot Eye.
Hmm, not sure on the personal BP one (at least once we get to the next tier). 350% vs 250% total, vs 250% and one score is doubled so event BP counts for 500%?
Not certain on how the maths works, but I think that's right.
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But I don't have any BPS to use. So, I won't.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
They probably wanted raw, pure data regarding alternate methods to base generators.
My guess is that bhvr is thinking of something to combat 3 gens or something by offering an alternate route. It'd be harder to get that data if survivors lose the will to be test subjects because Freddy with Pain Res/DMS keeps teleporting to the blood gens. No thank you
Not sure the right way to get raw data on that was "disable everything also completely unrelated to enhanced regression".
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@wakesafe said:
Glad they’re finally addressing haste perks. They’ve been bandaid perks for both sides for ages. Both sides feel pressured into bringing them to have a chance and they usually account for 50-100% of the perks on any given build.
I’m sure they’ll balance stacking other less important things like gen regression and 2nd chance perks eventually.
… people bring multiple haste perks at once when they're not just looking for a little edge because that's what makes them fun: getting the biggest speed multiplier possible. Rather than, say, just bringing a balanced meta build with a tiny bit of speed replacing some extra slowdown or info or what have you.
Except we're being forced into meta builds because not letting things stack will just slide it towards the individually strong perks.
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909198#Comment_3909198
It said haste and hindered effects no longer stack. It didn't say no longer stacks for survivor or no longer stacks for killer. That means these effects no longer stack period, for both sides. This does hurt some killers too but overall I feel it is a rather healthy change that will lead to some perks being a lot easier to balance.
If by "balance" you mean "everyone only uses whichever applicable effect is easiest for them to grab and everything else is completely worthless and never to be touched", sure.
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@Rogue11 said:
"Stop having fun with weird builds! Now go run the same 4 perks as everyone else."
Right? Nerfing synergy like this just pushes people into playing meta builds every time. And not by choice!
Just scrap perks entirely if you're going to stop anything from stacking with anything else – ah wait, then they'd have no way to sell most survivors. Ho hum.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908881#Comment_3908881
Interruption. Is. Not. Functionally. Regression.
So, let me see if I can explain my reasoning better here.
I'm considering this broadly, and at a minimum, the entire mechanic is "killers are rewarded with additional slowdown for chasing the survivors carrying blood cans".
You even agree with this.
So arguing that it's not "strictly regression" is just semantics. I'm using regression loosely to mean (and you get this): "taking effort or progress survivors have put toward their objective and either undoing it completely, or otherwise rendering that effort meaningless".
That's exactly what blood drain is. I even compare it to potential energy, where a nearly identical mechanic of "carrying gen progress to another location" is undone by hitting them. It's just undone in one instant instead of over time. But it still means that the survivors time was wasted.
The entire premise is that going to a blood station, and deliberately trying to be stealthy by moving slowly is serving the exact same role as a progress bar: it's an otherwise time waste. Undoing the effort there is equivalent to removing that progress, which is why I use the term "regression".
Your other points, that you numbered, are irrelevant to that. You're taking about whether it's balanced perfectly, not whether it counts as objective progress. I even mention very explicitly that blood gens are generally too close to the stations in my post. I'm not looking at if this is entirely balanced in it's current form, since it's a limited time mode (intended to not be perfect) and time is the easiest thing for them to tweak if they iterate on this is idea.
it slows down chasing anyone, too, because it's like you have to find the people sneaking around doing dull totems or chests instead of objectives.
This is possibly the worst thing you could've complained about, and I can't take this seriously.
Killers have something like 50+ aura reading perks, abilities, and add-ons now. Not counting things like killer instinct.
This event literally tells you "your slowdown perks don't apply to over half the gens", so maybe instead of running 4 slowdowns you have room for aura reading. Distortion was nerfed specifically and exactly for this reason: survivors aren't invisible if they aren't also being chased.
Complaining about "not being able to find survivors" is beyond laughable. You haven't even stopped to consider solving this problem with the tools you have available to you.
Oh, I am running all info, but I do find that to be a silly solution (honestly, I'd rather run chase builds or something, but then there's no reliable where-is-anybody, which is kind of my point – needing info more than anything else to have some idea of where people might be. Maybe if the pumps also had visible auras?
Anyway, I'm just saying, IMO it's more like normal pressure than regression, because once you call this regression, keeping people off normal gens is also regression because it wastes time (the in-between parts where the Survivor is moving, specifically). The time investment in the objective either end isn't significant enough for disrupting that to be that much wasted progress.
You might as well call "Survivor can't find generator" to be regression.
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@huntressmain03 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908959#Comment_3908959
So the bloodpoint multiplier is just invisible? Except for the lobby which it states on the article
Yup, it's invisible, but it's now global to any game played, event or not.
Just look at the score screen after.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
There's a lot of good things they've considered, many of them community complaints, and addressed with this system:
The good, or at least, the "we're listening":
- Survivors get an objective that's not just starting at a progress bar, but also isn't just "extra gens". A partial scavenger hunt with stealth encouraged.
- The draining mechanic is just regression by another name, which means killers are "being rewarded for chasing survivors who are working on gens". You don't even have to kick, it just drains naturally.
- Survivors are incentivized to move slowly/stealthily and traverse the map, which slows down progress and gives killers the opportunity to prevent gen progress from being deposited.
- The cans drain slowly instead of some stupid "you lose all progress when you are hit" mechanic (looking at you, potential energy).
- Blood gens prevent any progression, and regression/slowdown from applying.
The bad:
- The perks and abilities are too broadly banned on blood gens. Progression, regression, gen blocking, slowdown, etc are perfectly fine to disallow. Perks like fire up, or even pig hat activation need to be re enabled to function. (Maybe next iteration).
- Killers seem to not understand that chasing survivors and interrupting can progress is regression. People are just defaulting to camping and tunneling, which is the opposite of what this system is trying to encourage. I'm not sure how to make this more clear without just marketing it as "survivors collect gen progress at the station and it regresses when you chase them or they drop it".
- Blood gens and fuel stations need to have minimum distance to spawn from each other, some seem too close. This might be intended to prevent something like 3 genning (where all blood gens spawn on the left side of rpd, all fuel stations on the right, effectively making camping the lobby a new 3 gen scenario), but with 4 blood gens and RNG this situation seems too unlikely. Maybe having stations closer to the regular gens?
- It feels weird that killers are encouraged to kick gens, when the mechanic isn't kicking. Challenges and BP should be awarded for causing blood to drain from cans by any means, which would also help clarify that this is regression too.
The ugly:
- Blood points need to be awarded for depositing into the gen, not just on completion. Rewarding the "last person" to finish the gen is just silly.
- Event offerings should be shared with all 5 players, even if the amount is lowered accordingly.
Interruption. Is. Not. Functionally. Regression. It's much more just your normal, bog-standard "Survivor is not on generator" pressure.
It's not "people do not understand", it's that you aren't understanding, in this case. Chasing someone with a can is lost potential progress, but so is chasing someone off a normal generator. You're trying to overstate the importance of how it means there's a waste of invested time, but then you're immediately factoring out:
- Survivor time on blood gens is much lower, so every second that isn't interrupted is many seconds of gen time.
- Blood gens have lower charges to completion anyway.
- Chasing someone off a gen midway is therefore more interrupting them after they've already been on it for anything up to 30-35s. Gen progress doesn't go back.
- Chasing someone before they get to a gen is like denying them 30s on a gen.
Delivering it in lump sums only partially overlaps with "more work needed", and really decreases the value of time-spent-not-on-gens, so it reduces pressure overall. It doesn't play the role dedicated regression does in extending the minimum time needed, it's playing the role of keeping survivors off generators… which is generally weaker, and also means chasing them off gens is still chasing them off gens..
And this one:
- Survivors are incentivized to move slowly/stealthily and traverse the map, which slows down progress and gives killers the opportunity to prevent gen progress from being deposited.
It also makes it much less likely that anyone's going to be interrupted to deny progress and makes finding people unsurprisingly a lot harder, because you only get to see where the gens are. So it slows down chasing anyone, too, because it's like you have to find the people sneaking around doing dull totems or chests instead of objectives.
Then it gets deposited quickly because everyone realised to bring walking speed perks or just gun it and spend more time filling up anyway, and it goes by even faster. Bit awkward.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908537#Comment_3908537
Blight can down me in one hit?
That was my bad, I misremembered the new version of Iri Tag.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908766#Comment_3908766
Was it the capital E, if so I'm Canadian under my robotic identity so Eh makes sense here 🇨🇦
'Twas the Mr. :D
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@[Deleted User] said:
Thank you Mr. RainEhDaze
Not quite gotten it right. 😅
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908696#Comment_3908696
Survivors don't run gen perks / items? This should be news to the killer players i see complaining about "gen rush" builds all the time...
I don't know why people complain about those, they're quite rare – at most, I guess, you'll get a standard chase build + toolbox with BNP, which is enough to make it feel really quick at the beginning of the game. Very rarely, you might run into a whole hyperfocus/stake out build but those are pretty exceptional.
Or maybe people are just complaining when Survivors do the sensible thing and split up (which can make early gens go really fast). Unfortunately, this event encourages the latter so much, and the actual gen times are low.
But it does mean that lack of BNP aside, I don't see most Survivor builds impacted by the gen change, and not having to sit on an aura-highlighted objective for over a minute is definitely beneficial to not being caught. It's definitely one side that's more negatively impacted, despite the supposed flaws of running around with cans of blood.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908456#Comment_3908456
Thing is, you can try to spin a blight. This you can't dodge.
Blight could also down you in one hit or use the power to get a down.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908349#Comment_3908349
They have nerfed gen speeds and perks, and the tunneling remains rampant. Some (perhaps most) love to tunnel, but that's the reality. Even when The Killer isn't faced with genrushing or any gen perk, they still tunnel! People get tunneled at five generators. People get tunnelled at all stages of the match. Further slowing down generators won't accomplish anything concerning tunneling.
The point is that if you completely remove tunnelling somehow and keep nerfing slowdown, there needs to be more than a 10s extra to generators to compensate. Anything except the strongest Killers will be extremely dependent on Survivor mistakes to have the necessary pressure (or Killers with lots of kit slowdown – hi Sadako)
That's actually relevant to:
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908461#Comment_3908461
Like reward killer for not tunneling. Like whats wrong with say 10% off all gens for first hook on new survivor
This is literally the blood gens mechanic. If you go after survivors with cans, the chase regresses the blood value they're carrying. It's literally regression.
And people are just camping and tunneling anyway.
There's no buff you can do at this point that will make people stop camping or tunneling in extreme ways, like at the start of the match. The only way is to have some kind of mechanic that stops it.
And the devs can't seem to bring themselves to do anything meaningful about it either, so I have little hope that the future anti camp and anti tunnel will be remotely effective. The current "attempts" have amounted to "stand slightly farther from hook" (AFC) and they couldn't even make DS 5 seconds again (which is the only time killers have even paused tunneling to think about options).
The event gives us some idea of what happens with minimal slowdown and no anti-tunnel. If you play nicely and spread it out, it's super easy for people to get out.
PS: "chase empties the cans" is not regression, not any more than "chasing Survivor so they can't work on a gen" is now regression.