RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908419#Comment_3908419
I dont even think I can do that with nurse that fast even with lethal you dont blink far enough
Could do that with Blight, though.
Going by the speed, I'm guessing they were just the top of the stairs and had Lethal. That's a very short split, tbh.
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Cake.
The eye only doubles the event score. The cake doubles everything after the match. This isn't even a contest (at least, not at this stage – maybe once we get to late in the event if we hit one of the high BP targets it'll matter more).
If I were a less lazy person, I'd do a graph of multiplicative one score vs additive 100%, but I think it's cake if you can't guarantee multiple BPS until 200%, at minimum. Of course, that assumes getting some event score, and they made that wildly uneven; it really needs tweaking. Like, right now.
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Then back when?
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@Akron said:
The knowledge that I can get across the map in seconds with Kaneki's ability is the reason I haven't been tunneling with him-I don't have to. I can get to whichever gen that's currently being repaired just as quickly to hook one of your friends instead.
He's fast enough to get maximum value out of BBQ, it's fun.
Except when I keep getting stuck in the doors in RPD.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907936#Comment_3907936
It could be that.
But they seem to test ideas that the community throws out in limited time modes also.
The blood fuel, for lack of a better term, gives survivors an alternative to just a gen progress bar and a bit of a scavenger hunt, while also giving killers a way to counter play that progress with chase. Those are so things people have suggested they do in the live game.
As a devil's advocate, if they're actually wanting people to try the new mechanic, why wouldn't they disable other effects? We know for absolutely certain how things would play out if regression affected blood gens: people wouldn't even think to try anything else. Pop, pain res, camp and tunnel.
Even with that option off the table, people are struggling to even consider that "chasing the survivor off the gen" is regression in this mode.
It's just that so many people are hard wired to think that camping and tunneling are the only way they can think of to play the game, they either aren't seeing or even trying it.
The problem is that "Chase the Survivor off the gen" is even less of an option here in the core gameplay. Survivors spend much less of their time on gens, so forcing them off doesn't actually come up enough or stop progress. The idea would be to stop Survivors from getting the blood to gens, but…
Well: the cans aren't dropped for anything but power interaction items, the blood doesn't drain all that fast, and the Killer only gets to know where the destination is.
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@Chiky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907953#Comment_3907953
and the perks are broken as well. The match i played yesterday agaisnt the hackers only got me 1 Fire up token after the 3 minutes mark when the 5 gens were finished...
Yup, but it's not "accidentally broken", the devs decided that in the quest to stop all regression or progress speed, all other perks, powers, add-ons, powers, and items needed to not work with gens either.
At least Killers can still see blood gen auras? Such generosity. Can't see the pumps, though, even though that is vital knowledge if you want to maybe catch someone between them.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907770#Comment_3907770
I mean, they also deleted all gen rush perks and items.
This is a huge test for the community to see how well they can adapt to things they've literally asked for.
Three of the biggest requests have been:
- Gen rush perks and items are too much for killers to handle.
- Survivors need an extra objective.
- There's no incentive to not camp and tunnel every game.
And it's a test that at least some people are apparently failing.
Gen rush is deleted from the game. There's exactly one thing that increases gen speed, which requires carrying an item you have to find, move as slowly as possible to carry it, then get it to a specific gen.
So this is only gen rushing if people are just leaving survivors alone to slowly carry the item to a gen. If the killer leaves the hook (doesn't camp or tunnel), then they have not only interrupted the "gen rush" and pressure a survivor from working on a gen, but it also deletes the item charges to chase them.
So for all 3 of these complaints, the devs are realizing that those solutions aren't going to change behavior. They're being lied to by (some of) the community.
People will tunnel and camp even if gen rush perks are nerfed and deleted from the game. People will tunnel and camp even if survivors are given an extra objective or more gens. People will tunnel and camp even if spreading pressure rewards the killer with slower gens.
None of those 3 things are going to change people's behavior.
The problem is that this mode makes it more appealing to camp and tunnel.
- There's no gen speedup or slowdown, yes, but the gens take less time on them to complete. The limiting factor would be travel time, but that can be a nonissue if the pump is right next to it.
- Killers only know where gens are. Not pumps. Survivors will, for blood gens, maybe be on them for 5s at a time. Thus, you can't pressure someone off a gen to stop it completing 1/3, because they're not on it. You can't patrol gens to find people, because they're not going to be sticking on them.
Combine limited info with faster completion anyway, and you're going to get a lot of "I need to remove someone from the game and the only reliable way I have to find people is to stick with who I already found."
It also pushes survivors towards gen efficiency – "grouping up" on blood gens isn't punished, but the whole go-here-to-get-thing splits everyone up anyway…
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907849#Comment_3907849
I’ve been having a lot of fun playing Dracula with
- Beast of Prey
- Predator
- Bloodhound
- Territorial Imperative
But I can see Brutal Strength being theme appropriate, too if you want a more competitive build.
BBQ, Spies, Lethal, Floods of Rage.
I want to find people when they've gone hiding (which is a lot easier when the blood gen mechanics don't encourage greeding, give you a lot of time away from the gen to hide when the terror radius is closer etc.); the only thing you've got that would help there is Territorial Imperative – if someone's already injured or in chase, I'm generally not going to lose them that much.
Maybe stealth would help, but then some of the better/more casual stealth perks involve gen interaction, so can't use those. :(
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907832#Comment_3907832
People that play the game and have fun no matter how many hooks or kills they get.
I mean, I had to run every info perk I could get my hands on to try and do that, because now there's slim odds anyone's going to be on a gen at any given moment, and there's not much time to enjoy like… chasing, or deplete map resources. It's okay, but it's not really a casual-play friendly event right now from the Killer side.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Ive been playing alien since i prestiged him to 100 last bloodmoon event. So hes got all the eyeball offerings. If im playing normally avoiding tunneling/camping/slugging etc, i tend to end up with everyone on 2nd hook stage and i manage to kill one while the rest get out the gate. Out of about 3 or 4 rounds of that result with 1 round being 4 killed (which it doesnt really matter if you kill all 4, the killer tends to make the most points off number of hooks even if most escape). But on survivor, yea its just kaneki tunneling someone from across the map then slugging everyone else with 4 gens left saying ggez lol. I don't think they thought this through when adding the new killer just days before the event.
But as far as gen speeds, they do go pretty fast sometimes as some of the blood dumpster generators have a blood pump almost right next to it and since it only takea about 2.5 fills to finnish its pretty fast compared to regular gens if ur busy elsewhere
Playing Ghoul without tunnelling or going full sweat leads to pretty much the same outcome (after persuading people to actually do the gens rather than just trying to quit on hook). Which is fine enough for me, if I hook everyone that's 10k BP and that's all I really want to do…
But I think the generator no-interactions-with-anything has a lot of awkward interactions. Slowdown and regression are nonexistent – except healing. A lot of good effects are otherwise tied to kicking gens, or gens being completed, or gen progress, or just being near gens. So, what Killers and playstyles are effective at all levels of play…? Well, anybody that's fast in chase, can take advantage of something like BBQ (or Spies, because the other changes make everyone run stealth), and minimising the time Survs can work on gens. So, Kaneki. Blight, too. And tunnelling/slugging.
Or, of all people, Sadako because her tapes literally conflict with the cans and somehow she gets a buff.
I'd also say that, on top of reinforcing "playing nice is a luxury for a dominant position", the blood generators make it a lot harder to find Survivors. Nobody's spending 90s glued in one spot prime for being picked off if you know where to go, or intercepted on hook from the generator end. The pumps aren't super far, but they do spread people out a lot and mean a lot more time for stealthing. What does that benefit? Aura play and mobility. So… Ghoul and the usual offenders.
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907773#Comment_3907773
"Scoring events" is what it's called when you get bloodpoints. You know those little names that pop up with the totals? Those are scoring events. Always have been. It's saying you get more bloodpoints every time you get them.
TBF, the way they ended up writing that sentence reads like they threw it into a machine translation. I can't tell from looking at it whether the +XXX% applies during the match, so we're just going to hit the 40,000 BP limit each time, or after it.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
I think this event to see how killers handle with faster gen speeds/nerfed regres perks. Like I been saying for ages and with most events, when a killer loses their perks like in chaos event and now this even they lost regres perks... Killers will tunnel, camp and slug out of necessity
Unless BHVR is planning to also nerf half the info, chase, and stealth perks at the same time, I don't think they're learning anything.
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@ChuckingWong said:
For reference
Survivor filling a can: 100bp
Survivor putting a filled can into a blood gen: 45bp
Survivor completing a normal gen(have to be repairing when it completes): 1000
Survivor completing a blood gen(have to be filling when it completes): 2500
I think the two numbers at the top are probably the most hilarious things ever. And the two on the bottom you have to be there.
Killer hooking (only first hook): 2500
Killer kicking a blood gen: 500
Killer hitting a survivor carrying blood can: 1000
Killer stomping a can: 2500
What in the christ are these numbers??? Survivor is all situational and then terrible 45 and 100????2.5k BP for kicking a can
and the survivor has to choose to drop it?
how
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I don't think you know what "broken" means.
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@MoZo said:
first time ever killers are forced to bring chase perks and abandon slowdown perks!
But also forced to abandon random info perks, stealth perks, other chase perks, and generic action speed perks. Because those involve generators. Don't think this was thought through, particularly…
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907597#Comment_3907597
Oh I already voiced how I think this event is boring asf. Last years event with orbs was much more fun/better.
The hooks give you massive points on killer.
For survivor: only completing a generator, the normal ones, like you have to be there, gives you any points.
Gathering blood and blood gens give you barely anything.Except the hooks aren't that consistent and all look the same! Driving me mad.
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907351#Comment_3907351
We only got the 500% bonus last year because with like 3 days left the devs changed the goal posts, we weren't even getting close if not for that. Honestly if they're going to have an event they advertise as "the time of year to get all the bloodpoints you could need" or however they phrase it, they need to be delivering. As long as they keep making us fight for it and making it impossible to reach the goal prior to the final few days and have a horrible event offering, this will never "be the time of year for bloodpoints." I don't call starting below a blood feast and taking several days just to get to blood feast level as "best time of year for bloodpoints." The devs need to stop being stingy about bp.
At least give us good offerings!
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The event's honestly baffling me.
So, we have offerings that are worse than normal BP offerings, for… some reason. That's nice? I guess at least you'll get 100% on this very niche category of things. Except ######### is a "Blood Moon Hook"? Saw that pop up once and I have… zero idea.
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Not triggering non-regression things is… bad.
I don't know what Pig did to deserve a nerf this time, and not being able to use fire up just makes me sad. I want to use my goofy action speed build. :(
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907195#Comment_3907195
loading up the game
TBF, I did just get off work, so I hadn't booted it up yet.
Yeah, this seems weird. As a Killer I… uh…
Play a normal game and have an offering that does absolutely nothing because I can't interact with the event…?
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@ChuckingWong said:
Also where is the announcement for this thing I see nothing on the main page and nothing in steam?
… how do you know exactly what's in the event without it even being announced???
Edit: Oh it's already up in-game. Stealthy BHVR.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/442084/let-s-stop-pretending-the-ghoul-is-op
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BHWC8LHMVZO4/image.png
this is just Nightlights stats and not even the wider picture BHVR has, from experienced players who use these stats to improve at the game.
I think something's wrong lol.Yeah, it's also week one of the Killer's release and the numbers are already regressing towards the mean.
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I mean, to me it sounds like you're misplaying; if someone is doing that then you should take advantage of the mobility and drop chase. Hyperfocusing one survivor is a sure way to lose even with Blight or Nurse. What the Ghoul really excels at is creating deadzones, and guess what happens then? You have to cross to new tiles if a chase starts and then you can use the speed to block off. Not even counting when the vaulting is useful.
I don't think they're OP when people start playing with some level of awareness and skill, but that level of performance very much sounds like a problem with your playing. And maybe MMR.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906787#Comment_3906787
While I agree to some extent from a killer's POV, I would much rather have a more balanced approach to all maps.
But in the case of Haddonfield, I will agree with the majority of survivor players and say that it is probably the most unsafe map out of all. It really needs a size increase at least, and the return of a few safe spots for survivors. It is 75% dead-zone, 20% unsafe pallets/loops, and 5% decent.
Not to mention the highly imbalanced 3-gen that sometimes spawns in and outside of the Myers house.Haddonfield definitely needs to be bigger again, with more houses, especially on the Myers side, and the street needs to be narrower, like it used to be in the past.
Not more houses, though. Those are terrible to get any sort of balance on.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905872#Comment_3905872
I think leaving him in this state will also drastically lower the player numbers in the Blood Moon Event. I am considering of taking a break until they make significant changes to this overtuned cashgrab.
Maybe, but there's considerable reputational damage here: selling something, then turning it off (plus licensing!) in less than a week when nothing is outright broken – imbalanced is not broken, regardless of perceived or actual balance – is not going to look good.
Especially given that BHVR only released it on Tuesday and will only be looking at the first weekend's data by the time the event's meant to start. Kind of bad timing on that one.
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906734#Comment_3906734
The devs just made that Statement to sate the community. That statement has no foothold in their argument when people have been playing on console for years and been getting kills with killers like Huntress, Death Slinger, Trickster and Clown (Where you have to aim your projectile to actually the desired effect.)
Adding that auto aim was completely unnecessary, and they know it; it's just an excuse to add a new system that if all goes well, they can incorporate into the very other killers I just named and god knows how that'll go if we allow it to root itself to the game.People have been getting kills, but there's definitely a gap in how it works.
I think it would be hard to fit the same sort of auto-aim in, because I will continue to argue that what Kaneki has isn't auto aim, not truly. So, they've said the power is hitscan: if it's under the cursor, then it can get hit. Fair enough. Now, the definition of "under the cursor" is a pretty broad one! All those other powers have hitboxes on their projectiles, right? Huntress is throwing entire beach balls, ffs – the pickiest is deathslinger, but part of the skill shot there is threading it through tiny gaps, so it has its benefits too.
Anyway, they could make the hitscan a single-pixel ray. That's doable, sure. But then it'd be too precise for the payoffs and downsides of missing, given this is a Killer expected to make grab attacks while moving really fast. That's not just skill, it's making it twitch gameplay that plays really nasty with any form of latency. So, the hitscan needs to be more of a tube/cone (FOV being what it is) to balance out the various requirements. They just made the angle it snaps to way too large.
The skillshot has no reason to be harder than any ranged Killer in the game if it can't actually down someone. Balancing is weird.
@hlambda said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906591#Comment_3906591
Where exactly do you get the idea that having 3 different killers combined in 1 is not enough? So stupid.
because at this point of the game's lifecycle, there are so many killers that any new Killer is almost certainly going to have elements of some other Killer. So, we can draw comparisons: ranged attack that puts you into melee, mobility power that's great in the open and a lot harder to use around loops, ability to inflict Deep Wound and vault etc. But it doesn't map 1:1 with any of them nor is it as specifically good at any one part of it.
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906591#Comment_3906591
Well, then we can simply agree to disagree. I don't agree with making things easy to pick up or play, and you do. That's the fundamental and quite crucial difference between us.
But I do thank you for giving me the math on things because you're right. 15 Meters is too much of a cut, so i take it back. My lack of knowledge on his reach gutted him a bit too hard, so instead, they should drop the range to make it equal with Death Slinger. (24m - 28m) So it's not so damning.
However, I'm going to stand firm on my belief that Kaneki needs to lose his autoaim so that Killers are forced to actually have to AIM to get their hits & that he needs a slowdown at the same rate as Legion or a bit more. (About 2 - 3 Seconds)
Everything else is somewhat trivial as long as those two happenPersonally, I say give it a few more days (if not another week) so we have solid data, then reduce the lock-on* and dial down the grab-Survivors range. Incremental change, not starting a period of see-sawing rebalance-all-the-things.
*I don't agree with removing it entirely for the same reason the devs cited – it'd make the Killer almost unusable on console. It has more drawbacks on a miss than a ranged Killer, can't down, and is used at speed; "difficult" is one thing, it shouldn't be harder than ranged Killers because you've stuck their aim requirements on a mobile platform.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906676#Comment_3906676
I think its safe to say he does need some tuning when he has the mobility of an F-35 and better lock on than a spinbotter in CS
Maybe, but I would say that all the killswitch and kneejerk "nerf everything" demands are more than a little premature.
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I mean, yeah, that does seem to be already trending towards the desired kill rates (which is ~60%, isn't it, not 50%?).
It's almost like you need data from more than a few days of live performance before you can see the actual balance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906629#Comment_3906629
Either that or make the QTE system decide whether it applies deep wound or not. QTE = deep wound, no QTE = no deep wound.
Can they make it more consistent first? It sometimes doesn't even show up long enough to have the prompt for me, which is annoying when it's the only thing they attached any real BP gain to.
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906064#Comment_3906064
Weirdly privileged is wild, but I'll humor it to answer the question. Yes. I believe that nothing should come free or easy for both sides of the game, I care little for the excuses Killers might come up with to defend their overpowered titans and Survivors excuses for keeping extremely busted perks in game.
The same way Survivors have to work to survive is the same way Killers should have to work to get kills, and as you can see, Kaneki has it too easy for him to do so. (Meaning that whole "Killers are the power role" BS killers like to spout doesn't apply.)
Additionally, What you just told me, by the admission of your own words is that you're aware he's basically a glorified, souped up version of Legion and Death Slinger. (But you forgot to add Wesker.)
So, that means you're aware Kaneki is extremely busted.
And yes, i am of the belief that he has too much mobility and that killers should actually have to AIM to get the desired hit. (Or as you put it, making his power as hard to land as Deathslinger, or Huntress, or Trickster.)
Everything else, though is a statement taken by exaggeration. Nowhere in my statement did I say "Kaneki should have no ability to play around loops." and in fact, I made no mention of it.
What I said was that he needs more slowdown after he makes his leap, and I went into detail on why I thought that.
I don't play Killer, and I don't play Deathslinger, so I don't know how far his Harpoon shot can reach (Nor do I know how far Kaneki's Kagune can reach either, I just know it lets him skip sections of the map at a time and that's not remotely fair.) but, i did suggest they drop his reach by 15 meters, so anyone who knows the math can explain that to me.
His power would still be usable in chase, so I'm not really sure where got that notion from, the difference with my suggested nerf is that he wouldn't be to hardcore bodyblock pathing and easily gain guaranteed hits.No, it's perfectly fine that some things are easy to play. This might be a strange concept, but not every Killer should have a high barrier to entry before you can have fun with them, and there is no reason aside from snobbery to go "well, if it's easy to pick up, then it should suck long term". I don't even follow how Survivor perks come into it; perks that are easy to use don't need to be weak (the problem with old DH wasn't ease of use, it was how many effects it basically had at once).
And no, right now Kaneki's a weird beast, because he's more like a legion-blight-deathslinger mix, but doesn't really do the same thing as any of them. More Blight than Wesker, and the vaulting just as easily fits under Legion. Your proposals basically take out the Blight aspect (mobility and can use power to manoeuvre to get downs) and would leave us with a nonfunctional version of Deathslinger+Legion.
Mmm, I think Ghoul's current range is 32m, whereas DS is 24m, so -15 would be nearly half. For a power centred on grabbing objects to use as mobility, limiting that part so drastically guts it: the actual distance traversed compared to walking is quite low, and the ability to latch onto things becomes very poor. DBD has really weird distance judgement sometimes, but to put it one way: the smallest tile is 16x16m; you'd require that you be basically in a tile before the mobility aspect of the power is usable. That's terrible.
A massive cooldown before you can take action after using the power for mobility makes it even worse: no matter where you stop, that's plenty of time to get away, and because of your cooldowns and short range, that's no beating someone to another tile (or using it around a tile, because this kills both aspects).
So, now that we have those numbers out of the way, let's revisit my conclusion: if we took all of your nerfs, we would have a character as hard to aim as Deathslinger, who can only get an injury when travelling at speed – so, already harder than Deathslinger to use just for that part of their power – who can't use their power to directly down anyone; this power can't be used around loops because the cooldowns are terrible, forcing you to be an M1 Killer; can't really use the ability for map traversal in exterior maps because the range is too short and is limited in indoor maps because oh hey there's a wall (same as it is now, tbh); and can't use the ability in chase to bodyblock because again the range and cooldown have been nerfed to hell.
This wouldn't be a character that's fun to play, let alone master, because every part of the kit will feel bad. If it counts as "fun to play against", then that's only because it'd be trivial to deal with. Avoiding the first hit? Well, it's deathslinger-level aim that requires the Killer to use their power on an object first, so that's super telegraphed and easy to avoid. Avoiding downs? Any loop. Any loop and you're an M1 Killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906237#Comment_3906237
please show me a generic build that works on all killers, that can give at least 2k with just basic perks. (please read my reply below).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906236#Comment_3906236
Dont you play to win?
Im starting to wonder how much time you have spend as killer, but let me tell you. loosing 5 gens after 3 hooks because you have no gen defence, is not fun.
But i get it, you dont care if you loose all you games right???
Now this leads us back the the argument where we need 4500 Iri Shards, not 4k as you wrote (unless something have changed) just to get 1 out of 4 perks, this will take forever if you loose all your games. And you need 18.000 iri shards to earn 4 killers with perks with out spending money.
THIS is why it matters.
And if you want to play another killer, you need another build that (surprise) require you to get some new perks, why? because as i stated already, Trapper and Nurse have very different play-styles and need different builds to play effective.
And you can win with no gen defence. It's not even some impossible challenge like you're making it out to be. Some Killers (poor, poor Trapper) are a lot more dependent on it than others to get the needed time but, by and large, random lobbies are not going to be perfectly coordinated. People will be inefficient, will have imperfect information, will make mistakes and be overly altruistic etc. It's as much about pressure and knowing where to go and when to tunnel as anything.
Yes, if everyone plays super efficiently and maximises their gen time, then you'll probably need regression. That ain't happening in most of your public games.
And yes, I was slightly off on remembering the iri shard cost from memory. Oh well.
As for 'needing different perks': that almost exclusively applies to nurse, who just wants aura reading.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906242#Comment_3906242
Not exactly, it essentially forces pallets faster if you want to live longer. You are faster when ending power, but you can't just insta tap anymore, so this would promote bodyblocking interactions, or "skilled and knowledgeable" plays. So not like legion, a stronger legion is what this killer is rn, and idk any people who want it him like that. Also outta curiosity, what does "nyoom" mean?
I dunno, feels like increasing the basic attack cooldown and increasing sliding duration does the opposite: not only are you stopped from doing anything for longer, if you're not enraged or didn't go the full three leaps, you're now locked into an unchangeable slide… which is trivially easy to read because it doesn't allow for adjustment. So, again, it doesn't work as soon as anyone gets to a loop, only wide open areas. Which Wraith and Legion already do.
Nyoom = going really fast. I'm pretty sure it started as onomatopoeia because cars.
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I mean, you'd remove any hope of ever using the power to secure downs except in an open field, which would give us "Legion, except you trade info and ability to spread pressure really fast (circumstances permitting) for nyoom".
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What do you want, a magic forcefield blocking the Killer from coming within half the map of the hook just in case they have any way back fast and could conceivably react to a save?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906206#Comment_3906206
Any killer with a little experience can dodge most pallet stuns.
And you really need some kind of gen defence.
Want? Often. Need? Unless you want to sweat every game and are determined to play like your life depends on it, no. You need to play differently without it, but you can still win and have a ton of fun without it. 99% of the time, no side's going to play perfectly, so what does it matter?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906199#Comment_3906199
The reason i talk Enduring down is that most killers just dodge the pallet and kick it. So i think enduring is a wasted perk
Depends on how much the surv is predropping as opposed to playing well, experience with the range of pallet stuns, things like lag, whether you're gambling lunges on someone greeding etc. It gets value if you play into it (and obviously it shines like no other with spirit fury).
Hell, you can get value on enduring alone against some survivors – eat the stun, survivor vaults back when you should be locked into a stun…
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906192#Comment_3906192
I dont agree with Enduring, Brutal can be good, Spies is a very overlooked perk, its not bad but i would not use it on my trapper of all killers tho, as i spend so much time looking for traps and setting them up, i would pick Whispers over Spies (if you use a headset), and Sloppy is also hit or miss as not healing seems to be a thing, and then it looses its value and it dosnt matter if you are wounded when you walk in a trap anyway.
But even with that build you will have a hard time, as there is no gen defense at all.
Enduring + Brutal, though, is a nice combo (enduring/brutal/spirit fury might be a meme, but it's a fun meme). I just said Trapper because you can get Brutal from him, which is nice; I'd rather play Wraith but his perks are not great.
Anyway, I think not having a totally meta build as soon as you pick up the game is fine. Learn a simple Killer, kick a few things; then get artist or clown and you're sorted. Bonus points for Pinhead's perks soon to be coming into the free tier, so you can get gift of pain + pain res without spending anything in the time it takes to get some basic competence down.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906183#Comment_3906183
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906187#Comment_3906187
True, so this leads to my next question, how much time realistically would you have to spend to farm the shards you need to buy the perks for a solid build? - all while using only free perks that are not optimal.
And what will you do if you want to play another killer? i doubt anyone will really do that. I mean trapper and nurse probably are better off with different builds.
However long it takes you to get 4k for plague or artist tbh. Maybe enough time to get some of the starting Killers to P3?
Sloppy is free and always good; Spies is actually a really nice general info perk. That's two sorted if you're planning on an M1 Killer. Enduring is hard to go wrong with and Enduring + Brutal just needs levelling Trapper.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906140#Comment_3906140
how so? if your answer is the shrine, then you just confirm that you only read half of my post
… because they're all on non-licensed killers that can be unlocked using iri shards.
Artist, Clown, Plague, Knight.
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@Vlarian said:
I've just come back to dbd after a year+ break, and all my games have been against the ghoul. What I can't put my finger on is how it's power works. It seems all the killer needs to do is look at me and I get deep wounded.
How do I counter this?
Either don't let him get line of sight (so you're going to spend a lot of time around twisty obstacles) even after the first jump, or just take it and then remember he's A) going to catch up in the open, and B) will try to cut you off.
To a degree, the old Nurse trick of doubling back also seems to work.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905911#Comment_3905911
The shrine is really the worst argument that dbd is not p2w, do you know how long it takes for a full rotation takes in the shrine?
It takes more than a year, and not all perks have even been in the shrine yet. - No one will wait over a year for their perks to unlock just for one killer, come on..
Here are the most used killer perks, all but brutal are perks behind a paywall :
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EYVDOM74ZMU0/image.png
On top of that, there seem to be a tendency to kill off older perks (i mean just see the number of perks that never get used by now) while every 3 months new perks are released, often, but not always strong ones. A good example is the Xenomorph's Ultimate Weapon, it was really strong on a lot of killers, and then later it got nerfed into the ground to a point where no one use it.
This is why the game is p2w.
And i could probably go on, but i think you get my point
Pain Res, Pop, Corrupt, and Nowhere to Hide are all unlockable without spending a penny.
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@BlackRabies said:
There's since very questionable issues I've seen with Ghoul. That's he probably really shouldn't have.
- Only killer in the game that uses a hit box function instead of a projectile and the size of the targeting box is massive.
- Has more range than DeathSlinger!
- Has a massive window of time between leaps before it's forced on cooldown.
- Has an autoaim function!
- Lacks a fatigue after using power.
- Lacks any real punishment for messing up their power.
Few changes I would make if could.
- Change power to work like a projectile similar to huntress hatchet.
- Reduce the range about 30% but try to keep the distance you send yourself flying about the same it currently is.
- Reduce the window time between dashes and half and slightly reduced movement speed while holding power. Similar to Wesker.
- Reduce the size of the powers hitbox and get rid of the auto aim.
- A fatigue after using power for leaping around so can't hit them with a M1 so quickly.
I think Deathslinger's hitscan, there's just a slight delay after firing.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
I play Dead by Daylight since 2017 and I have never seen a killer broken and overpowered like The Ghoul. I don't get that feeling even playing against a good Nurse.
Insane mobility around the map, literally FREE injuries even without aiming correctly plus it gives you the deepwound effect, covers huge distances and knockdown survivors with zero cooldown after cancelling the leap. There's literally nothing the players can do to battle this. This killer needs serious nerfs ASAP.
The blood moon event is going to be a disaster and I won't play the game until they nerf this killer, I'm good. Well done devs, excellent design 👏
I find it extremely hard to believe that anything is as broken or overpowered as 5-blink Nurse or the total mess that was release Legion. Ghoul is strong, but it's not that farcically strong (now, perk power creep helping OTOH – then again, Nurse coexisted with original Moris and BNP, depending which part of 2017 you mean)
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@SaltyNooty said:
Oh my god. A killer main with their head on straight, thank the lord. This is a place where i can drop meaningful criticism and not be snarky as per the norm.
I Do agree with your take of Kaneki being an S-Tier killer, I'm not sure why people insist on downplaying his strength when they know the truth. He's incredibly oppressive and far too easy to play, get downs with and anti-loop with. He has too much mobility and too much pressure.
Unfortunately, though, I have to disagree on the take of "A strong killer that's easy to pick up isn't a bad thing." That's a bad thing, that's an extremely bad thing for the sole purpose that as you admitted in your own post: Nurse, Blight & Billy all have a relatively high skill ceiling , So Kaneki should get the same treatment without question. (Besides the fact that we still have to deal with killers like Dracula, and i don't need to explain that vampiric pile of trash.)
I do agree with some of your nerfs, but personally, I think it should be a bit Heavier than that.
1. They need to remove his auto-aim. It never should've been added in the first place and that opens grounds for them to add auto-aim to killers like Huntress, Deathslinger and Trickster, and that would get annoying really fast. Additionally, this would force killers to actually have to AIM at survivors if they want to land their M2 like the killers I just mentioned.
(Additionally, even console players can make use of killers like DeathSlinger, Trickster, Huntress, and like all killers, they just have to learn how. Kaneki should be no different, period.)
2. They need to add more slowdown to Kaneki after he leaps. The same way Legion slows down after exiting his power, allowing survivors to make distance to another tile is the same way that Kaneki needs to be treated, so that even if he DOES bodyblock, Survivors can actually manuver away. (2 - 3 Seconds would be good.)
3. He can only mark one person at a time. While he can put other players into the deep wound status by using his M2, he can only MARK one survivor at time which would make it more challenging for Kaneki to stay in his enraged state. (Of course, add-ons can be used to extend his Kagune Mark Timer or extend how many PEOPLE can mark.)
4. Reduction of his Kagune Leap (By at least 15m) This one is purely optional based on the slowdown he'd get after making his leap, but he shouldn't be able to traverse across the map faster than a Billy, a Blight, or a Nurse. Most people completely and wholeheartedly disagree with that notion and so do i.
Not to mention, he can flick his direction like a Blight can to control the landing spot and area and if he can do that, then his Kagune Leap Range needs to get cut. (Or, they just remove his slide and not make it base kit, lmao.)
Personally, I don't know why the devs decided to push out this update DESPITE knowing that these problems existed and even BUFFED HIM, but this update was NOT it.So your idea is that the power should be as hard to land as Deathslinger despite not downing and being done at speed, have the same range as Deathslinger, the mobility should be gutted, should have no ability to play around loops, and not usable in chase because it's been given a long CD too?
I think your idea of balancing is just a little out of whack, because you have basically proposed that it should be the mutated, malformed baby of Legion and Deathslinger with the only strong point being vaguely decent map traversal before you're an M1 Killer.
This is on top of the weirdly privileged idea that nothing good for a Killer should ever be easy to pick up. <_>
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Honestly, I think the only nerf haste perks need on both sides is some sort of visibility they exist. Sometimes I wonder if I'm gaslighting myself.
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No idea what you're actually trying to say with #1, since there's about three ways to take it; #2 would probably get rid of any skill ceiling that exists by itself (because everything will always be full distance); #3 creates a bizarre situation of punishing the killer with a longer CD for using their power (if you got it the other way around, it'd make more sense); #4 is generally a good idea.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
Absolutely not, this variation is the fairest of all. And yet it continues to be broken for survivors.
This is in contention for the least fair variation, what are you on about?
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905919#Comment_3905919
The range of it is quite extreme, my comp friend told me that his range is 22 meters while Deathslinger's is 16 meters.
They just have so much in their kit and the auto aim helps them track and find people easier - they don't need to be auto aim if the other ranged killers are not auto aim. It lowers the skill required as it autolocks with the mouth on the survivor and because they can launch themselves ahead of you, you cannot create distance in enough time.
+ the vaulting that they do, even Wesker (someone that they are similar to) cannot vault and hit you right away. With Wesker, you can vault, they vault, and you can vault back over the pallet as counterplay?
Kaneki? Vaults extremely fast over the pallet and hits you right away, it's a joke.
Kaneki plays in a similar way to many mobility killers, but does it far better with no drawbacks.
The damage and mobility ranges should really be different, that's for sure. Probably should reduce the range at which he can inflict damage. Although, I think there should remain some degree of broadness in when it will count as a hit; Deathslinger is never trying to make a shot while moving at 22m/s, and none of the ranged killers have their power go on cooldown needing a complete reset if it doesn't get used immediately. It needs some concessions.
TBH, I think the problem with Wesker is that his vaults are oftentimes useless. It's not that Kaneki's are too strong with the whole Enraged thing, it's that Wesker's are too weak to the point it's mostly a weird trap to send yourself off a cliff.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905766#Comment_3905766
Yeah, it's wild that they made the excuse of making it a hit scan with auto aim for console players - but they don't make that same line of reasoning for other ranged killers.
You have the mouth on you for a millisecond and you transition behind the wall? It doesn't matter.
You get bit, you make distance a little, he cuts you off, you go down, you go on the hook, you get unhooked, they come back and tunnel you.
If aura reading is involved - copy and paste that onto other survivors without the tunneling. More and more I see they transition to Alien Instinct/BBQ with Blood Echo to counter Iron Will.
If not using Iron Will, they find you with aura reading if not using Distortion.
If not using either of those things and full on gen regression, it doesn't matter, just fling yourself around and let the auto aim do the work for you.
Hmm. I think the mobility aspect of it is also a large part of why it's hitscan – both because of the latency considerations when moving at speed to get a second hit (not great feeling for anyone) but also for the sake of reusing mechanics between the movement and the survivor damaging. It makes sense in the context of the rest of the powerset design; if it wasn't hitscan then the feeling when it comes to mobility would be bad, and the consistency for am-I-injuring-or-grabbing-scenery-and-being-pulled-miles would get very bad…
The area for the hit detection is just exaggerated. I don't even think it's a true autoaim, it just hitscans a big old cylinder instead of a raw. Some degree of that would make sense (see injured survivor hitboxes for one reason why), it just needs to be… narrower.