RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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@Phasmamain said:
I think knight is overall a worse design. Knight literally can’t be looped and is more effective at stalling a game if he wants to
Skull merchant is similar but at least you can loop her and her power isn’t as buggy as knight’s has been
Knight's more likely to end a game without stalling it into a threegen.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367667#Comment_3367667
They need to buff a lot of the M1 killers and avoid making new stationary killers like Knight or SM. Then they can proceed making the maps bigger in order to create more space for a more balanced gen spawn
The problem is, what do you add to M1's that helps with larger maps? What makes larger maps hard is being able to get anywhere in time, but if you give M1's some way to do that, now you don't make it harder to spread gens by making the map bigger, because an effective 3gen can be more dispersed.
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I mean, probably stop playing.
It's not even all the people I like to play, but the constrained choices would push me to go play something else until it's undone.
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@Science_Guy said:
Still no word on Spirit though. At the very least, Haddonfield should also be killswitched as well.
there is on Spirit, they confirmed it's not enough to warrant killswitching
as opposed to Dredge getting ALL THE STEALTH.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367045#Comment_3367045
To be fair, almost all aspects of her design have weak explanations, or no explanation at all. I have no idea where her tech comes from or how she learned to create it or why it's made of skulls or why her mask looks so goofy or why she's even called The Skull Merchant. The sexy strut is the least of her problems, in my opinion.
The sexy strut is the one that feels literally the most broken. Fairly sure there's something off about that walk cycle and it's so hard to tell if it's deliberate or from trying too hard.
@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367039#Comment_3367039
Hell, even I could get behind a sexy killer if it was some kind of Femme Fatale archetype, integrated into her power and backstory to create an actually compelling character. But this is definitely not that. Her sex appeal is just... there, for seemingly no reason other than to make money. Same with Vittorio, Renato, and Thalita. Just feels scummy when they just use sex appeal right off the bat to make money instead of waiting a bit. I mean, it's March. Summer is coming up in a few month. They really couldn't wait to release the revealing/beach outfits until then when it's actually kind of appropriate for most people? Meh. I care much more about the gameplay side of things anyway, but scummy business tactics really piss me off.
At least Vittorio got to show off cool alchemical/magical tattoos in the process. They added something to the characterisation, that way.
And the siblings are dressing appropriately for their locale, so give 'em that.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367021#Comment_3367021
I have seen posts for a sexy Killer, this was requested.
I was interested to see if they would ever do it, but I was hoping it would be for more reason than 'sexy because manga because sexy'. Like, she's just tautologically so.
And literally nothing makes that walk work.
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I think the only interesting looking combo I've seen involved that one purple addon which gives haste, Superior Anatomy, Bamboozle, Play With Your Food, and... Brutal Strength for some reason? I dunno what the streamer was thinking with that last one, but I can see the point of the others.
If you're going to have info anyway, and your power can be used to make you faster, may as well try to make a chase power out of perks. Even if this is 'move fast and hop windows'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_cIrQb5MEkFirst game in this video.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366934#Comment_3366934
So long as the regression meta becomes more healthy i’m fine with Cob and overcharge getting nerfed. And yes DH needs a nerf but that’s an entirely seperate discussion
"Every slowdown is a worse version of what it was except for Jolt" is not a healthier regression meta, in my opinion. It edges close to 'nothing is actually any good to run' even being conservative with expectations.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366721#Comment_3366721
Tbf the entire discussion is pretty subjective when you consider that the entire premise relies on suggesting nobody likes playing the killer for thier power which is just objectively false.
Although, the lore has nothing to do with the sexy walk and appearance.
So... <_>
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366873#Comment_3366873
That’s why we make way for more interactive perks like pop or ruin. I don’t think perks like CoB or Over barge should really be meta since they encourage passive and uninteractive gameplay
Killers should never start the game off planning around a 3 gen and the main reason they do this is because the current regression meta plays so well into it. If pop and ruin were meta I’d say this strategy would be much less common
What we want is to make CoB and Overcharge more useful for their info and 'well, I guess I can't find the Survivor over here, I might as well do something to not waste my time' value rather than setting out a 3gen from the start.
Would probably need to check some other condition than a timer in that case, but at least it wouldn't totally destroy the perks in every situation.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366856#Comment_3366856
Agreed on the overall point. Perks shouldn’t incentivise unhealthy strategies and it’s why old pop and ruin were fine perks
Just giving overcharge and CoB a cooldown might suffice
Then you go into the other extreme of 'Survivor taps gen for 1s, your perks are offline for 60s again'. Sure, overcharge has its skill check, but CoB doesn't.
And it risks turning every gen defence perk into one that's comically useless at the intended goal of buying time to have chases.
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@Pulsar said:
The Eruption nerf was good and so was the AMN buff.
The Shelter Woods changes are good.
The Red Forest maps looks great.
The scream change was bad.
Dull Merchant is bad.
The perks are bad.
SM looks to be a cash grab skin seller.
The Survivors are both very bland.
Also, Mother's Dwelling is STILL enormous.
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365237#Comment_3365237
sm is also bloody. her hand is so bloody that her base cosmetic looks like a prestige
It's a pretty subtle amount of blood. Yeah, the claw (and then to a lesser extent her arms) have some. Her mask's got some artful spots. But still way less than Trickster's default.
See, the point I'm making on the sexiness isn't is this good or bad, it's just 'this is the most blatantly sexy thing so far put into the game, with the least amount of offsetting creepiness'.
Now, the bad part is that her design is just lacking in cohesion, so it's just 'here's a sexy outfit and walk'... because.
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@Skill_issue said:
it is easier to chew through the hIt states correct? I use legion exclusively right now because his/her frenzy hits apply deep wounds so dead hard isnt available.
killers such as bubba, ghostface, and myers should in theory be the correct counter.
Why use other killers if you cant successfully mind game and wait out the dead hard?
it is like if you have a problem with multiple med kits being used and the obvious counter is to use plague more.
Thoughts and opinions?
because I play Killers for their gameplay and design, not their ability to counter one perk. Literally everything else about my experience is dictated by who I'm choosing to play, I shouldn't have to throw out all of that as an answer to a single perk (which, as noted, can still counter onehit killers easily enough).
Also, I definitely shouldn't need to spend who knows how long grinding every perk I don't have instantly at level 3 on a given Killer, to deal with a single Survivor perk. This is a game, not a job.
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364612#Comment_3364612
says the person with the spirit pfp, the killer whos nearly nude for NO reason in her default, and was going to be completely nude but they thought it would be "too distracting"
whose body is also chopped up into pieces and moves in a twitchy, unnatural way
who is not a perfectly health lady doing a sexy walk
Yeah, I'd say there's a fairly obvious difference going on, there. Outright sex appeal on Killers was previously tied up in the grotesque, even Trickster, who's a kpop star, is a bloody mess with a bunch of unnerving mannerisms and creepy laughter. The most conventionally attractive going around was obviously Wesker, but that's just RE, and at least he kept his shirt on. The Survivors got more appealing outfits, but at the same time, no sexy walk.
So, SM is blatantly the most sexualised thing so far, and it's reaaaaaaally cheap because there's not a whole lot else to her appearance. Mask. Claw. Ho hum.
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@ARTRA said:
Im going to be honest with you.
Probably you and other people enjoy SM wich is perfectly fine.
Point is, first thing i thought when saw this post was that an alter account of a dev created a post to try SM looks better to the public.
But glad you like it, for real.
I guess SM players are going to share lunch table at school with knight players. We can trade snacks if you want xD.
I don't want to hang out with SM players, though. :(
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@Emeal said:
Survivors: *gets loads of sexy teens, fabulous dresses, short shorts. Swim wear and Big chest men for many chapters*
Killers: *gets Skull merchant who is evil vain rich woman with a big dumptruck behind*
You: "Wow, bHVR is just doing a sex grab!"
Me:
https://media.tenor.com/fuiG0_pco2wAAAAC/confused-john-travolta.gif
We been playing the same game for years? no?
I'd still wager this is a new level of blatant sexualisation that even stuff like the topless Vittorio didn't manage. That ridiculous walk doesn't help.
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her power is weaker than a standard collection of perks
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@arcticgirl36 said:
I just want to say, my friends and I absolutely love this game. I am worried that by giving too much credence to negative feedback, the developers may not realize how much most people love this game and appreciate their creative efforts. It might eventually result in changes that the silent majority of happy players don't actually want. Most of the actual people I talk to who play don't really ever complain about dead hard, or eruption, and we don't hate getting slugged enough to completely rework the endgame Mori system. I love Deadhard and the skill and timing it requires to pull it off.
If you look at the reviews on steam, the game is one of the most beloved games of all. I think the developers do an excellent job balancing the game. If you don't like getting slugged bring No Mither. If you hate flashlights bring Lightborn, etc.
I also really enjoy the new killer the Skull Merchant. Not every killer needs to be a Wesker or Nurse. Some survivors who are not looping Gods may really enjoy a chance for a decent lengthy chase. Also, many killers appreciate a good challenge such as the Skull merchant offers. Oddly enough there is even the possibility that some of the constant flow of negative feedback is from competing 4v1 style games. Or just negative memes that have taken on a life of their own.
Thank you. This is just my own perspective based on some real world experience after playing thousands of hours. This game is one of the best games ever made.
Thing is, you're just applying selection bias in the opposite direction. You don't see a problem with it, so you've found the source that you think supports your position, right? But steam reviews are rarely updated.
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I like playing him, it's nice to have a non-micro power and just focus on the positioning of it.
Just needs another pass on fixing jankness, and maybe another look at addons in the future so that running map of the realm and dried horsemeat/call to arms isn't basically the only good combo.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363787#Comment_3363787
That's not how I'm reading it.
"When a survivor screams to reveal their location, the scream will be a 3d scream (instead of a 2d/mapwide scream), with a 19m max range, and a loud noise sfx is triggered."
It says '-and- a loud noise' -after- the range was declared. If the loud noise also had a 19 meter range, wouldn't it have said 'a 3d scream and a loud noise sfx with a range of 19m'?
You'd think, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was out of order.
Although it seems the answer is 'both of these things', because most scream perks are working as described, except Make Your Choice, which is comically useless.
And I still have no idea what could possibly have prompted this change.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Okay so I just tested a few things with this.
With Deathbound and Face the Darkness, screams from far away give a location bubble of the survivor, and a loud noise notification sound.
With Make Your Choice, there is no scream audio from far away AND no notification other than the standard one from unhooking. You do not have any way to discern who is Exposed.
Screams resulting from Doctor’s Madness seem to be completely unaffected and function as they did before.
So they made a consistency change...
That makes things less consistent?
Also, could BHVR stop adding more ######### loud noise notifications? At this rate, they'll just replace all audio killers receive with a binary no noise/loud noise notification choice. They're increasingly just 'hey something happened somewhere on the map, no clue what because anything could trigger it'.
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@Firellius said:
If I'm reading this right, any scream outside of a 19 meter radius from the killer is instead turned into a Loud Noise notification. Conversely, any scream within a 19 meter radius now uses positional audio.
Presumably, the various perks, powers and add-ons were handling this differently from one another.
If my reading is correct, I doubt these perks will work any different than they used to.
They made the audio 3D and positional, which probably means having to deal with, of all things, sound occlusion.
And from the look of it, it's not a loud noise outside of 19m, it's a loud noise within 19m if you get the scream. No notification outside of 19m.
If it's meant to be a notification at a distance, they really screwed up on wording this one.
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'Consistency pass'
what was even inconsistent about them?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363420#Comment_3363420
He was not well received. Many refer to him as boring to play as and against. I said it for Skull Merchant but I would also like to hear what makes Knight a good killer in your opinion.
After all, this thread was created to understand what makes a good killer.
Knight goes to the other end compared to someone like Blight: your power's not super fast, you're not mobile, but you have the ability to pressure multiple people, zone things well, and force Survivors into taking hits sooner or later. The power itself isn't mechanically complex to use and learn, but that's fine; not everything needs to be a twitchy click-based skill that's all about how well you can micro aim. Macro-focused Killers are fine too. He could be better in that regard, and maybe a bit worse around loops (somehow), but that would pretty much need chucking one or two of his addons into basekit and reworking the others before you can even consider making regular use of long patrols.
Skull Merchant won't even have that level of macro gameplay or zoning potential. The weird hodgepodge of slow exposed buildup and brightly-illuminated stealth and info just leaves you with an m1 Killer that doesn't actually have much gameplay around loops or in chases even in an area you've set up for. It's just... working against itself.
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@Veroles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363306#Comment_3363306
Yeah killers keep bloodlust and survivor get stamina for movement speed. That has really much to do with skill. When it comes to skill not even bloodlust should be a thing because it's also just a helper.
Bloodlust has to be a thing until they rework all the maps so that there's never, ever a situation where a Killer physically can't catch up if both players are running correctly.
Which is never happening.
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Nothing in the Killer appeals to me, and on the Survivor side it's just 'how did we get another perk where the best counter if it becomes common is tunnelling off hook'
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@Bwsted said:
You can calculate the distance and catch-up time if SB is used right up in the killer's face.
However, that's quite frankly not an optimal play unless the survivors was just looping with 99'd exhaustion.
SB must be used early, in which case it could end the chase right there, or be a time sink that the killer can simply not avoid if they commit. And there's no playing around that, barring faking leaving chase. Good luck with that.
Or, it's used on unsafe gens to make it to a loop. And in that case, again, there's not much playing around that.
Do those buy you more or less time than DH? Hard to say. But if we're talking about lose-lose for the killer, you'll quickly find out DH is not the only offender, just the only scapegoat.
However, SB doesn't have the sunk cost associated with it. Is it annoying if someone uses it well for those purposes? Sure.
But, but, it's exposed straight up. Someone's used SB, and you know that. Whatever they've done is done, and it's now your choice whether to commit to that chase or go after somebody else. DH shows up at the end of the chase only, and then what? It's a perk that offers a terrible choice--abandon the chase after two hits, and let the person heal up (not having got a down in that time) or keep chasing them and sink even more time.
Playing around SB actually gives you options first. Playing around DH is 90% trying not to get hit with it and only 10% 'can I down someone else faster than get this third hit'.
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@LooeDbD said:
I just switch to my p100 last second to avoid dodges, anyway prestige means nothing, only really shows what character you like
Changing at the last second is a guarantee I won't even bother in the match.
It'd be like instantly backfilling into a game full of people egotistical enough to stick ttv in their usernames. It doesn't set expectation that it'll be any good on my end.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362525#Comment_3362525
I swear there is no more demoralizing feeling in DBD than seeing someone SB from miles away and knowing it's gonna take like 30 seconds to catch up
So that extra 3m SB gets is 5s to 7.5s, without Bloodlust, assuming map geometry doesn't force them to come in closer. On top of the starting distance, yeah, 30s to catch up.
But at least you get to find that out without actually committing to 2 hits of a chase first.
The distance DH buys is 20-30s just to catch up again. On top of the wasted hit.
(0.4m/s vs 0.6m/s in catching up)
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@Chadku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361253#Comment_3361253
Bodypillow build is unbalanced if you know what i mean. /s
Agitation, Mad Grit, Awakened Awareness & Iron Grasp
ah, the backpack build, which runs no slowdown and can get absolutely no value if you don't try to body block
As much of a meme build as flipflop-power struggle approaches, which is countered by the simple expedient of not trying to be altruistic once you work out what's going on.
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He's not strong enough to need a nerf. Changes, sure, but a nerf is a change in one direction.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361475#Comment_3361475
Got nothing to do with what you said and that's a situation! You said it's weak and pretty much useless and I said that's your opinion.
Also your not gonna be slugged for 4 min if you play "smart" and run Tenacity/Flip Flop/Unbreakable. It's actually pretty strong your just down playing it because you think it's weak, opinion!
It's terrible when it works because you can only get up once, and then you get slugged again. The Killer knows you're going to have UB if you're running flipflop+boil over+tenacity (or power struggle, unless you're doing all of those). So then you get knocked down again.
It's terrible, because the counterplay is to slug you. Which is nothing but annoying.
Terrible doesn't mean weak (it's a meme play that's sometimes okay if it works); it's terrible because slugging is bad. And on its own, it is weak. People just run it with no supporting perks a ton.
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@Laurie268 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360867#Comment_3360867
There’s no entitlement on the survivor side, it’s just that going down only because the game felt bad for the other side is BS. Feeling like you deserve a down just because the chase has been going on for too long is peak killer main entitlement, the killer should know when to stop chase and pressure gens. If you need bloodlust 3 + the 8% slowdown from wesker’s power to get a down I’m sorry but get good.
Right, if you've been chasing someone so long the infection has kicked in, you're already doing terribly. We agree on this.
At which point, it doesn't matter. The Survivor got a huge amount of time out of the chase. That's a good result! The idea of an asymmetric game literally breaks if you assume that an infinite 1v1 should be possible.
And if the Hinder effect only comes in after so long it's a throw to not pursue someone else, then it doesn't need nerfing. Because the potential of being stuck with it by ignoring the infection to do gens is why it works as a slowdown.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361344#Comment_3361344
Thats your opinion your entitled to it.
Unless everyone has suddenly changed their mind to endorse 'lie on ground doing nothing for four minutes' as a desirable thing to encourage more of, it's undoubtedly the correct one.
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@Edilibs said:
Boil Over is good if you know how to use it and actually gets value in matches even against high level players (killers)!
You have to commit with it ie you need builds built around it. Tenacity/Flip Flop/Unbreakable/Break Down all good choices to support Boil Over!
If you play it right you can really waste alot of the killers time so I don't think it's a bad perk at all or worthless or useless you just need to build around it
Oh, no, even when it works it's a terrible perk, because it encourages slugging, and that means everyone's frustrated. Unbreakable only works once.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361150#Comment_3361150
The wiggle bar is there so you don't end up in basement every single down and to prevent the killer from keeping you on their back forever.
Trust me you do not want wiggling out to be a common occurance. The harder you make to get hooks after the killer already won the chase the more you push people to never hook again and just play the game by slugging everyone for 4 minutes.
You're advocating for something very dangerous here.
Also
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4DYX5ZRDWN4M/screenshot-20230304-090718-chrome.jpg
Straight from the wiki, it's only 7 meters of distance extra
Never thought I'd be told I need a maths degree to do basic multiplication
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@ButterFlee13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361194#Comment_3361194
Grabbing choice is related to some fixing from the past few months.
In August, his newly launch, if anyone play him heavily, they will remember about the M2 at loop windows.
100% of the time, during the vault animation, Wesker will have tentacle hit survivor at the back, never a grab.
This is for the first month.
For the many in last 3 months, I have played as him alot and you will always get a grab animation at vaulting widows, pallets and such. This is with 40ms btw. So, its not ping issue but a change choice of grabbing or hit at the back which the dev coded it.
Now you will see that tentacle hit only during endurance hit to survivor.
Ping only tells you latency to the server, not other players' latency.
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You. Are. Not. Meant. To. Escape. Wiggles.
Wiggling is to stop the Killer literally carrying you forever. that is it.
Boil Over is a terrible perk that encourages horrible gameplay from everyone, and is annoying when someone just sticks it in because they have some delusional ######### idea that it helps in isolation, and should be deleted from the game with a vengeance.
Iron Grasp lets the Killer carry you like eight metres more. I've done the maths. Agitation is more effective in isolation for more distance (faster movement) and more practical (faster movement), and it's still only 10m-ish.
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Do you really think it'll feel better if his power is limited in use by people running around injured, can still be disabled, is completely AI focused because you're stuck with dropping and praying, and is obsessed with pallets?
It's basically Nemesis with faster zombies and ADHD.
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@Gamall said:
Wesker hitbox need to be reudced. It is incalculable the number of times you are literally thrown against nothing, among other things with absurd ease.
It seems to be one of those powers suitable for those who have problems with aiming and even if they aim half a metre away from the surv it's still good enough for them
His actual hitbox, when playing him, feels like it lines up pretty well with your normal attack angle. If the grab was made narrower again, then it'd start feeling really bad.
The collision, OTOH, is just weird at times. You get some of people sliding off things, too. But I think that's more a symptom of BHVR making things look prettier without wanting to mess a ton with the level geometry.
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@qwertyuiopz666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360940#Comment_3360940
Why can’t it be the actual body of your survivor like hatchets hit you even when they are hitting nothing
'Cause different Survivors are different sizes. Survivors have a fixed hitbox at all times when standing or running--it's roughly a vertical cylinder centred around their legs. When injured, you lean forward, but the hitbox doesn't change.
Now, add on that the hatchet collision might be valid on the Killer side (because of latency), and you get your mismatch: the Killer threw a hatchet, it collided with the hitbox, and you were already injured. To you, it looks like it hit behind you, and even if there's no latency, it still collided with the invisible cylinder, not the body.
Oh, and hatchet hitboxes are spherical, which has its clipping issues with terrain, but also turned out to be necessary for people to ever hit the things than if they had a narrow profile. Visually-accurate hitboxes turn into everyone missing everything in this game.
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@qwertyuiopz666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360934#Comment_3360934
Yeah I know but controller players have always suffered both sides and can’t keep up with a keyboard and mouse most of the time especially when you can change your sensitivity more than us if you play keyboard and mouse that is
But that's a problem that cuts both ways.
'Make this hitbox worse because it's harder for controller players to dodge it' means that it's harder for controller players to use it. Hitboxes shouldn't be based around KB+M vs Controller or Controller vs KB+M, it's Controllver v Controller and KB+M v KB+M. And, in that scenario, Wesker's release hitbox was too narrow.
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@qwertyuiopz666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360712#Comment_3360712
Can anymore people already play these killers if your a survivor main at the higher spectrum of mmr you see nurse blight and wesker practically every game maybe a couple mixed in between but mostly them 3 and his hit box is massive and controller players suffer cause it’s harder to dodge attacks
Have you considered how much the same controller players (and everyone else) will suffer if you make the hitbox unnecessary narrow? Like every other weird hitbox in the game, latency is like 75% of it.
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@Riski said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360867#Comment_3360867
I don't want it to come of as "I want to loop the killer for 5 gens" but instead "When I go down, I want it to be from my mistake or the killer's good play. If I loop the killer well I want to be rewarded for that". Becoming fully infected isn't a strategic decision from the killer or a mistake from the survivor but an ineviability. Also slight numbers, 100 seconds is technically max infection time, but almost all sources provide 20 inital infection so it's 80 seconds and is 56 seconds with the addon. I agree the survivors are in a good spot if the health state goes on for that long, but it's not unreasonable for it too and if that's the case on a killer this good at chase that's a misplay from the killer and hence a hand holding mechanic. Given how good Wesker is it feels unnecerarry as it limits survivors abilitiy to turn a chase around mid match with a good chase.
It's 0.8 c/s, though, not 1 c/s, so the 80 charges takes 100s to build up from the initial 20. I think it only starts at 20 to simplify the interaction with the grab adding 20.
The thing about being infected is it means you've already gotten hit. Ergo, going down well over a minute later (or after being unhooked) is a result of that earlier misplay--the infection's a timer before looping becomes extremely fraught. And the time to go from 20 charges to 100 is more than long enough to turn a game around.
Like, if you take off the hindered, the mechanic does nothing. It literally just becomes 'exposed if Survivors ignore the infection and sit on gens at full HP the entire time', which is dismal. It doesn't just mean 'now chases can go on for as long as pallets don't run out', it means taking out the passive slowdown. He's got a decent chase power, but he's only as balanced as he is because it carries these rider effects. If people don't feel a need to go cleanse (use DH, for instance, or just force an M1 from full HP), he gets no info. No slowdown. Wesker gets fundamentally reduced to a demo who can do a bit more around corners but doesn't have map traversal, and Demo's not in a good state now.
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@Riski said:
My only personal grevence with Wesker is the infection mechanic, I like the theory of it but it feels bad to play against in pratice. Getting infected puts too much of a soft cap on one's chase as once you're fully infected you will struggle to last any amount of time and coming off a hook puts you in a lose lose situation with the killer going back to hook because even if you heal, take a hit with endurance or teammate takes a hit all it does is build up infection over time, Both of these leave you in a lose lose where you're punished for not spraying when you're not given the oppertunity to. His hitbox is pretty generous but not absurdly so and with the expection of iridescent vial the addons are fine, but the infection limits the input of survivor skill and holds the hand of a killer who wouldn't even be bad without this hand holding.
If you can run for long enough that the infection maxes out, you're already winning. That's 100s without being downed. 70s with the addon that increases passive infection. If the Killer isn't ending chases in 45s or so, they're losing hard, let alone 'spending so long chasing one Survivor that a solo Survivor could complete a gen'.
The feeling of entitlement to the possibility of an endless chase is ridiculous. It's a 4v1. You have to go down eventually. More Killers should have something like that which isn't 'use about all the dozen pallets that spawned on the map'.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360474#Comment_3360474
Good points but not pointless! I've played a number of games with a wiggle Sabo build (Tenacity/Unbreakable/Boil Over/Flip Flop) with Alex's Toolbox and good add-ons (I'm sweaty I know) and I've done pretty well with it.
I always have a plan of the killer comes to me and all in all I waste "alot" of the killers time.
Only downside to this is that I can't get caught end game bc I'm prone to getting bled out or hard core tunneled!
yes, I literally said that
Its only purpose is sabo builds that encourage bleeding out--and unbreakable only works once, so unless exponential comes up, that's still leading to spending most of the game on the ground--and running off to high spaces, or it's an annoying, pointless nuisance.
Do you know how many people run it with no plan?
The perk is terrible in every way. Its only purpose is 'gameplay that forces something that's not fun for anyone involved and denies BP to boot' or 'be annoying'.
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@ButterFlee13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360731#Comment_3360731
The "Expose status" applied to infected survivor if Wesker use Urorobros Vial.
If he doesnt use it, then you need to hit the survivor with M2 power and pray that you slam into the wall not throwing them to the wall.
Devs are generous with Aid spray tho, 6 in total, and each spray can use for 2 times.
Normally, unless survivors are trying to be efficient on doing gens or other stuff and ignore the infection. Yes, that the trade off they are willing to make, not wesker power fault!
Yes, if he uses a particular iri, you're exposed for 30s.
That's still not much of a disincentive. The hinder makes it way more likely people will try to go cleanse at some point, and that buys you some slowdown.
People are focusing too much on 'if he holds W to tunnel you, you'll eventually be caught', when that applies to every Killer. He just has the weird distinction of the chase only lasting about a minute after that (the infection resets on hook, after all), but that's still not a super effective use of Killer time or a reason to neuter the debuff. He gets slowdown, or you're risking an easy chase. It's a fair tradeoff.
'Exposed but only with a particular add-on or an M2 hit' is not a good debuff, because people are way too used to going 'so what?' and then staying injured so they can DH and it doesn't matter, or obstinately clinging to obstacles that are then M1 only.
FFS, too many suggestions on this forum are 'remove anything that has an effect a Survivor can't negate by looping the right object'. Something helps in a chase? Needs to go ASAP, no matter how it has another counter that turns it into a bit of passive slowdown.
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@Bwsted said:
The only thing unnecessary is the hindered effect. One shotting at full infection is already a powerful debuff that forces staying injured or going for a secondary objective that reveals your location.
The hindered is just power crept stuff and makes tunneling with him extremely easy and it simply wins chases for you.
For the rest, he's just buggy, like half the roster.
'Exposed but only if you hit the power once people ignore it' isn't a strong enough effect to get people to go cleanse.
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Because heaven forbid any Killer have one really strong combo or playstyle.
More likely, though, they can only bugfix Demo.