AGM
AGM
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117762#Comment_4117762
there's nothing wrong with people not knowing every facet of every map btw… it's totally unreasonable to call a perk a "crutch" for people who "don't want to get better at the game" when at this point DBD has maybe even a higher game knowledge learning curve than games like LoL or DOTA…
There's also absolutely nothing wrong with people playing this game casually, I think there's a significant portion of the playerbase who would rather play the game casually as opposed to min/max run the best everything and coordinate with a SWF to win all of the time.And now that you have to use 2/4 perks to replicate the same effect you have more incentive to take them off so you can try other perks and builds as you learn more.
I get people don't like change but I genuinely believe this is healthier in the long run. Windows is not as "necessary to play the game with" as others have made it out to be.
But maybe my view is biased by the amount of time I've put into the game. Or maybe I'm overestimating the number of people who care to get better. If I'm wrong I look forward to seeing 2 or 3 people running Windows + 5MA every game and gladly change my mind.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
My feedback for Windows of Opportunity is that changing this perk is a massive mistake.
Of course the Devs go off based on pick-rate and see a perk that is picked a lot. This datapoint can make it easily be mistaken for an overpowered perk. However, I want to make the case that Windows of Opportunity is UNIQUELY justified in being left as a highly picked perk that should not be touched, now, and in the future.
DBDs UNIQUE CHALLENGES
Due to DBD being an assymetrical game, it brings unique challenges with it that other games don't bring; As it has 2 separate factions (killer and survivor), it also introduces 2 uniquely separate learning curves to learning both sides.
My argument is that, due to the nature of DBD's design, this means that beginner survivors will severely struggle compared to beginner killers, where as, as time goes and and both become more experienced, survivors start gaining the upper hand:
(Graph showing power levels as y-axis based on play time as x-axis)https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R8SWXM57GUZ8/image.png
This difference in learning curve is rather easily explained by the random map generation and how killers and survivors interact with that differently in terms of difficulty. Where as its way easier for a beginner killer to simply follow a survivor in a map they don't know, than it is for a survivor to to navigate over a dozen of maps with random generation, where they have to navigate the map efficiently while running mostly looking backwards.
This single phenomenon creates the biggest learning gap between killer and survivors, leading to killer stomps at lower levels, and an overall less balanced game.
The period it takes to learn so many configurations of randomly generated maps among a sea of dozens can take a significant amount of hours played that a large sizeable portion of the players base doesn't have.
And what perk has helped this large portion of the playerbase overcome this unequal learning curve? It's Windows of Opportunity, easily accessible on a cheap survivor that has been saving the learner playerbase.
As windows of opportunity has helped newer players partially overcome the massive learning curve, it has not pushed survivor strength to any new level of over-the top strength: Everything that Windows of Opportunity gives, experienced players and SWFs already get for free; Comms and Map knowledge can completely replace Windows of Opportunity, hence why this perk starts to significantly lose value for teams and veterans.
This creates the following effect:https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CAH39AWUZQQR/image.png
Windows helps push lower level survivor gameplay into more balanced games, in the area where survivors struggle most. Due to a large portion of the playerbase being permanent learners due to the brutal nature of learning randomized map configuration in such a sizeable amount of maps, therefore the pick-rate will always be required to be high. That is not a sign of overpoweredness. It's a sign of its success, as a learners perk that helps overcome one of DBD's oldest problems; the unequal learning curve caused by its asym nature.
My argument here is that, nerfing Windows of Opportunity will lead to a less well balanced game, harming survivors in the wrong places, based on data without the comprehension of why its picked exactly so often; This perk UNEQUELY doesn't reflect how "overpowered" it is, but is directly correlated with the brutal learning curve of the sizeable map pool of random generated maps. And with more maps being added, Windows of Opportunity is going to play an ever more increasingly important role, which makes the current nerf that more tragic. Should there ever have only been 1 map in DBD, then the pickrate of this perk would be severely lower, and this key point is very important to be understood by the devs. Because the Devs need to understand that WoO plays a Unique role in solving one of DBD's oldest issues, and is therefore UNIQUELY justified in being frequently picked, and should not be changed, now, or in the future.
To give an idea of what an overpowered perk would look like, you would have to look at a perk like Shoulder the Burden, Sprint Burst, etc. that DOES boost maximum survivor strength, leading to the following effect:https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HPPX4KLV7ZGL/image.png
Such perks should be eligible for nerfs, as, as you can see, it increases the maximum gap between the killer's maximum power and survivor's maximum power at high levels of play.
My argument is that for proper balancing, we should try to ultimately align the red and blue line for a perfectly healthy game. And I hope I've helped conceptualize why nerfing Windows of Opportunity would undermine that exact goal and hurt overall game balance, and why making that decision based on high pickrate would simply be a mistake.There is no such thing as a perfectly balanced game. Imo, I wouldn't expect Windows to have such sustained use over time if it was just used as training wheels for survivors. While I agree with you that old Windows helps newer players do better, I also believe that at this point many use it as an excuse to not get better at the game. I agree with the devs' decision to split seeing auras of pallets and windows between two perks.
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I'm loving pretty much every change I've read; my only concern is that the duration of Self-Preservation may have been cut slightly too much. Imo, the 15s of Elusive should be brought up to 20s.
This may be one of my favorite patches of DbD of all time. Great job y'all!
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Feels worth it and fun to me. I play mostly Scout and open chests very quickly on my way between gens with my key. Plus, Scout's unlock skill is very good, so completing the ritual is already worth it to me if I haven't been caged yet. Torchbearer probably gets the least amount of value from unlocking their skill early, but the Haste helps everyone, especially Escapists, connect tiles more easily.
Seems like a well thought out mechanic, but requiring placing the salt down for a Quest was probably a bad call… 😅
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@ThatRyanB said:
Thanks for the kind words, folks! As you get more time with this item, I'd love to get your thoughts on its value vs. in-game time investment. Do you see this being something you'll want to actively use in Trials, or more of an "on occasion" thing?
Personally, now that Scout starts with a Key in 2v8, I bounce from chest to chest on my way between gens hoping I find an Invoking Salt and use it pretty much immediately, assuming it's safe to do so. But even on other classes it's usually worth it to search a chest or 2 manually on the off chance you find one, especially now that chests are plentiful.
I think you guys hit a great spot of time investment vs. reward. I like how keys can speed up the process a little bit but without going overboard. Keep up the good work!
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@NeverSolus said:
Hex: Face the Darkness.
So we agree that certain perks provide extra counterplay against specific mechanics, just like Lightborn.
If you think it out for a bit longer, once survivors know this perk is in play they'd ideally wait to use it until they've cleansed the hex (among other methods of counterplay), but this is meant as a lifeline in average-to-above-average level games where slugging is more common.
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@AliceNull said:
Why are we pretending that counting to 10 is a particularly difficult skill or that this is going to meaningfully increase how often people get hit after endurance? Most of the killers who have hit me pre-15 on the boosted duration did so because I was going to make a tile and they wanted to negate the possibility of dead hard or ds+locker plays, not because they misjudged how long it lasted.
It's not really about the skill of counting. It's that the execution undermines the intended purpose of having unhook protection to begin with. The devs shouldn't be making tunneling easier. A built in "I can be tunneled now" timer definitely makes it easier, especially now that the protections have been shortened.
As others have said here, I believe this could be resolved pretty easily by making the Elusive slightly longer. Personally though, I'd even go as far as making the Elusive and Haste last 15 seconds, with the Endurance at 10 seconds, because unlike Endurance, the Haste and Elusive protections are purely escape tools for a survivor being tunneled, and can't really be abused offensively.
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This is (surprise!) a problem that was identified in the PTB that got no attention.
This really needs to be changed please. This is an extremely unfun situation. Spawning in front of the killer in a random part of the map while you try to get your bearings is very unpleasant to say the least.
You could even imitate the logic from how Pinhead's box works so that spawn points in a certain radius of the killer are heavily disincentivized from being chosen.
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The Pale Rose is currently kill switched.
The Kill Switch is a recent feature added to Dead by Daylight. It gives us the ability to temporarily switch off any items/offerings/maps/cosmetics/characters that are causing game breaking issues in the game, to ensure continued enjoyment. When the Kill Switch is used, the item/offering/cosmetic/character/map will not be… -
It's a bug, apparently.
@Craftlori said:
Why does it show me my time region and how long I'm already waiting instead of how long I have to wait?
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@Ricardo170373 said:
This killer has an annoying power to use; constantly spinning around and looking behind and to the sides is awful. On top of that, it’s super inconsistent and difficult—and even though it’s strong, in a month this killer will be keeping The Twins company at the bottom of the playable roster.
This isn't the kind of game where someone wants to spend hours trying to figure out how a character works; it’s simply better to play as a simpler one. I’m not even going to buy it. It should have been an accessible Killer since it was created by the community, but they did the exact opposite—it shouldn't have been this complicated. It’s a disappointment.
It may not be a lot, but there absolutely are people who will main Judgement and destroy everyone. It's unfortunate that you don't jive with it, but I'm glad they took an actual risk with this killer's design. But at this point there are so many killers to choose from that not everyone needs to love every killer. I hope they can keep coming up with creative power designs, even if it's a bit awkward.
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@Mandy said:
This is a bug I'm afraid, one that the team is aware of now.
Thanks for the prompt response. I'm curious though: if this bug was reported on the PTB, why are they only aware of it now?
Apologies for the cynicism, but it seems like the feedback we give is not getting to where it needs to in a timely manner, and I'm personally a bit jaded about even taking the time to report or suggest anything if it feels like the feedback is forwarded directly to a black hole. 😅
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Based on some comments in this thread saying that they'll basically refuse to use this for no real reason, I'm beginning to think that a global opt-out feature is a bad idea. Almost as if you're giving people permission to play the team role without taking teamwork into consideration. If they hate it that much they can mute everyone every time they start a new trial.
Also it'd be nice to know if someone does have you muted. Like an Ear icon with a slash through it or something.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092641#Comment_4092641
Imo elusive should only work for anti-tunnel perks. Elusive as a whole is genuinely just so broken to get 4 perks for free when other perks give half as many effects as elusive, still gives you a way to track them, and has an activation requirement/downside. Cross-examination has none of the previous mentioned drawbacks it is simply get the strongest status effect in the game for playing the game..
Idk if I'd say Elusive should only be on anti-tunnel perks. For example, I think it works pretty well on Extrasensory Perception. But I agree completely on Cross-Examination. Pretty ridiculous lack of foresight from the devs.
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If I had to hazard a guess, it's because:
1) the feedback/stats on Jason being overtuned is much more mixed than some people on the forum would like to believe
2) almost every killer has some sort of learning curve attached to them and we're still well in the phase of people learning counterplay
3) Elusive is by far the most impactful status effect that they've ever made, and the devs didn't think through the ramifications of slapping it on a perk that involves following the killer. (The pitch idea probably started with "What if the killer had scratch marks?")
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This just seems like the standard new killer learning curve. Haven't played as him but I have played against and I picked up on what to do pretty quickly.
Stay working on gens during OE if you're not in a dire situation; pay attention to his potential spawn points; if they try to use OE in chase then try to stay equally in between the two closest spawns to force him out of OE; use sound queues to help you dodge scrap throws (just like Huntress).
I'd say his power is basically Wraith + Huntress with a twist where survivor resources are more dangerous to camp due to OE exits.
Doesn't seem too strong to me. Been having fun learning the counterplay.
I want older killers brought up to this standard, not Jason brought down.
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Freddy's in a pretty good spot right now. Try using one of his add-ons that decrease his teleport cooldown. Cat Block is just a flat 10% off the cooldown, which is just okay, but Nancy's Masterpiece is 10% off every time you get a snare or pallet hit.
Nancy's Masterpiece will basically guarantee that you have a teleport whenever you need it - as long as you hit your shots.
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@AshleyWB said:
The way I look at it is, why do we push for regulation before we know how ai can be misused for example.
I would think you'll get more from letting ai run wild then honing it back with regulation afterwards just so you can better prepare for the reality of AI being prevalent everywhere.
There's no rush for regulation for a reason imo, people want it now which is understandable but at the same time we need to ensure there's a kinda public consensus on what regulation looks like rather than it being yet another thing determined by companies etc.
People basically need to chill
We already do know. It was built off the theft of images, text, and ideas scoured from the internet. It is already being misused to create realistic "intimate" images and videos of people without their consent. It is already misinforming people every day with summaries containing hallucinations. It's literally stunting kids' learning; more and more kids are struggling to write simple 5 paragraph essays on their own because AI can do it for them, but then lose out on the ability to think critically and comprehensively. And that's on top of the environmental issues surrounding data centers and the morality of feeding a financial bubble that will just transfer more wealth to the wealthiest and leave the poorest to pick up the scraps.
Just because you are unaware of the negative effects of AI that require regulation doesn't mean that nobody is.
This is dipping into politics territory which isn't allowed, so this is where I'll stop.
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Best wishes! Hope the recovery process goes smoothly.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086900#Comment_4086900
The problem with not losing stacks with it is the problem with so many other survivor perks though, if all 4 survivors take it, you could spread around "work" on gens then all dump it into the same gen and basically instantly complete it (especially when stacking gen perks/toolboxes/etc.
So the perk on its own is totally fine and needs buffs, but when 4 stacking it, its a problem.
It's why i think they should have done diminishing returns based on how many survivors take the perk not on your own perks. So if all 4 survivors take the same perk, then it becomes weaker for them. And then only have that apply to the more problematic ones like fast track and such.
Right, which is why I said losing 10 stacks instead of all of them on a hit would be more preferable to what we have now. Though maybe making it a percentage-based loss of stacks on hit would be preferable.
I don't think a buff like that to Potential Energy would make things get all that out of hand even if 4 people brought it, because it's not like you get extra progress while you're charging your perk.
Even with 4 people using this perk, they still incur the repair speed penalty if multiple people are trying to repair or charge PE of the same gen. They still have to hope that they don't have any stacks while being chased (or go on a ridiculous chase that makes the killer want to find someone else).
And then there's the opportunity cost of not bringing a more general perk that could help you in some other way.
I'd at least like to see this tested on a PTB before they fully commit to the change.
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- General Killer Buff - Powers are immune from Diminishing Returns
- Buff Hag - Increase most of her power's numbers and add-on pass.
- Buff Doctor - Increase movement speed while charging Shock Therapy
- Freddy - QoL: Buffer input to switch from pallets to snares and back.
- Ghostface - Addition of some kind of map traversal mechanic
- Demogorgon - If you've placed all your portals, your next portal is recycled from the oldest portal. Add-on pass. Giga buff portal place speed
- Deathslinger - Add a quick time event when a survivor is hit with a spear that, if successful, boosts your next reload's reload speed. Add-on pass. 28m terror radius.
- Nemesis - Add-on pass.
- Cenobite - Add-on pass.
- Skull Merchant - Please buff her if you won't rework her. Add-on pass.
- Chucky - Add-on pass.
Every patch, I want to see them take at least 10 perks that see very little use from each side and buff or rework them.
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That sounds good in theory but I could see potential griefing taking place.
Also this is kinda what Potential Energy is supposed to be for. They just need to buff it so that you don't lose all your stacks when hit (maybe losing something like 5-10 stacks would make this perk so much more useable).
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086478#Comment_4086478
It is indeed an information source for killers (and in higher elo games one that barely ever get to use). Do you know what other things are information sources? Scratch-marks. And guess what. Perks help hide those information sources. Do you know what another information source is? Aura. And guess what; Perks like distortion also help deny those information sources.
That is exactly the point of perks.So you want to make an information source for killers less relevant than it already is, indirectly nerf any perk that makes skill checks more difficult, and indirectly nerf any perk that induces skill checks on generators, because you feel entitled to being able to do something else while your husk progresses generators?
Whether you like it or not skill checks are part of survivor gameplay at the moment. If you hate paying attention to gens that much that you would like a perk that essentially removes skill checks from generators, maybe you'd like playing 1v1 survivor more, where your goal is to last as long in chase as possible before you get downed. All chases, all the time. Does that sound more fun to you?
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While I don't think this is the most pressing of balance issues at the moment, I'd like to see the speed of the radius expansion part of Henry's Undergate Attack increased by ~5% basekit in exchange for only applying one token of Worldbreaker, because now that survivors know the counterplay I feel almost compelled to use Pizza Goggles when I play him and give up on ever hitting people with an Undergate Attack.
If I actually want to hit Undergate Attacks then I'll use Rabbit Remains, but that's probably not going to do much against competent survivors.
One trick I've had work for me is if a survivor hears that I'm getting close but don't know exactly where I am and start running towards me, I'll stop moving so that I don't make any noise and surprise people with an Undergate Attack that way, but that's obviously not applicable every time.
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Now that they have a system in place for this for Ghoul, for Slinger I'd like to see them add some kind of small quick time event slightly after the spear connects with a survivor, almost as if you're triggering a mechanism in the harpoon to hold on better, and that passing this qte would then boost his next reload's reload speed by x%.
Though I know qte's can be divisive so others may not agree.
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The new survivor perks are some of the most bold designs they've put out in a while.
That being said, these new batch of perks have taught us that Elusive is an EXTREMELY strong effect. To that end I think it's obvious that I am of the opinion that Cross Examination is ridiculously overpowered and needs a heavy nerf and/or additional activation conditions.
I can't see any immediate balancing issues with Lend a Hand, so there's that. Seems like a cool and useful effect overall.
Wide Open Throttle seems fun and useful too, though I can't help but wonder if the Haste is a little strong, so that remains to be seen.
All that being said: No, just because survivors are getting some cool perks doesn't automatically mean killers are taking a back seat. Killers got some amazing perks with Henry, and are getting some cool tools with Jason (in addition to Jason himself).
What is taking a backseat however is live balance. They added Diminishing Returns then haven't said a word about it or any buffs to affected perks, not to mention the pile of perks that were already in need of buffs before they added Diminishing Returns. They haven't added any way to see which parts of your build or power may be diminished. They haven't reworked MMR as announced. They haven't done anything regarding unique hook bonuses or slugging. I get it: timetables change, but refusing to balance live content concurrently with major releases isn't cutting it anymore. Make different PTB builds if you have to. But returning to the glacial pace of balance changes that you used to have isn't okay with an ever-growing roster.
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Move on to the next chase?
Being taunted like that shouldn't have any effects on people who know how to control their emotions, even modestly. They're looking for a reaction out of you. You are the only one responsible for whether or not you give it to them.
There's also so much counterplay to Head On and being blinded that they can basically only do it once before you know that these friends who are most likely just messing around together will be trying to set up plays like that.
People only assigned "toxicity" to these actions because there are so few ways to meaningfully communicate. People are able to protect their ego better the more they vilify their opponent(s). The only times these activities should be regulated are when they have an impact on the function of the actual product. For example, I give zero craps about someone spamming flashlight clicking, but when people found out that you could use a macro to click flashlights so rapidly that they make a horrid noise or even lag/crash servers (iirc), I fully supported BHVR putting a cooldown on how fast they could be turned on and off.
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You're frustrated that you can't multitask while playing a game?
Either use voice chat or wait until either the game is over or you're on a hook/being slugged.
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To be honest… I don't think a lot of players even know DR exists. I know there's a tool tip on the loadout page, but beyond that you have no way to tell if any perks you're running have the potential to be diminished by other sources, whether it's from other perks, or a killer's power interaction, items, etc.
It needs to be made clear when you have a perk equipped not only if it might be diminished, but also what about the perk's the stat(s), will be diminished and why. Same for if some aspect of a killer's power would diminish or be diminished by a perk.
I literally saw a Legion running Dying Light, Thanatophobia, and Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain at the same time. Poor guy probably had no idea he was walking into a Diminishing Returns minefield…
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@Goblin_BHVR said:
Hello!!
Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts, even the criticism are always appreciated!
We'd be interested in hearing more about what people think - which perks would you like to see changed due to Diminishing Returns? What builds do you feel it has affected? Anything else you can think of that's relevant, please please feel free to let us know!
Thanks!
Here's a list of what I consider to be perks most affected by DR:
Survivors:
- Better than New
- Blood Pact
- Boon: Dark Theory
- Desperate Measures
- Do No Harm
- Empathic Connection
- Flow State
- Friendly Competition
- Leader
- Quick Gambit
- Teamwork: Full Circuit (repair speed increase)
- Teamwork: Power of Two
- Teamwork: Soft-Spoken (repair speed increase)
Killer:
- All-Shaking Thunder (when used with Coup de Grâce)
- Bamboozle (vault speed)
- Coulrophobia
- Dying Light/Cull the Weak
- Dark Arrogance
- Fire Up
- Knock Out
- Leverage
- Overcharge
- Scourge Hook: Weeping Wounds/Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain
- Thanatophobia
Keep in mind these are just the perks that seem especially affected by DR to me, not all perks that I believe need changes; otherwise this list would be quite long.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084222#Comment_4084222
My understanding is that it's meant to stabilise the baseline, to stop any future stacking from becoming a problem. It's happened before, with healing speed or repair speed penalties, so it's worth protecting against I think.
It also isn't really affecting individual perks that much. Leader's still in the same "this is a fine perk but hardly a top tier" position it's always been in, BTN is exactly as bad as it was before, Fire Up still isn't worth bringing… the DR system just isn't moving the needle at all here.
I'm all for trying to future-proof perk stacking, and while I think they could have been less heavy handed, I brought up those perks specifically because they get especially screwed over by DR. They needed buffs before DR, and they need bigger buffs after. I could list more perks, but I think you get the idea.
Imo, the dust has settled from DR, and it's time for them to give more attention to old perks that don't make sense in modern DBD, whether it's just number changes, additional effects, or full blown perk reworks.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084205#Comment_4084205
Idk what builds you mean but when I watched vid from mintskull where he had math and like only differece on like breaking/vaulting build was few % change like from 1,2 seconds to 1,4 seconds or something like that or strongest/fastest healing build heals instead 3,3 seconds or what was it now in 5 seconds yeah deffinitely world ending situation for stacking builds.
Not trying to be snarky or anything, but if that's all it did then why did they use precious dev time implementing it in the first place? There were already so many mediocre perks, and it feels like diminishing returns just created a longer list of trash tier perks to balance, like Leader, Better Than New, Fire Up, etc. :/
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@DNet89 said:
So I think the community is torn between if you should heal under the hook or not. So I came up with this Perk which
When a survivor is rescued from the Hook PERK activates:
After 5 seconds the Hook will break for 25/20/15 seconds. Any Survivors within 4 meters of the Hook will be injured.
(Breakdown will have to be adjusted since it auto breaks instantly)
(Think of The Firsts Vine Attack
Area of Effect radius: 1.46 meters
Anti-camp Area of Effect delay: 6 seconds)
My first thought was "Finally a good idea for SH: Hangman's Trick."
My second thought was that there already is an anti-heal perk for this, Leverage, but the heal speed penalty isn't nearly high enough when We'll Make It alone can power through it no problem (plus diminishing returns on heal speed decreases).
I do like the idea though, I think it would be workable and would love to see a Pig perk that's more widely useable.
Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick: "17/16/15 seconds after a survivor is unhooked from a Scourge Hook, Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick activates. The hook that the survivor was unhooked from falls off, injuring any survivors within 1.5m of where the hook fell. Any injured survivors are sent into Deep Wound. The hook repairs itself in 20 seconds.
Within 6m of any Scourge Hook, any survivor engaging in a healing action has all healing speed increases nullified."
(Or something along those lines)
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4079952#Comment_4079952
????
People being "allowed" to do that doesn't mean that's what they do. Most gen perks are being used in synergy with other perks.
Different killers (and players) can get away with running different amounts of regression in most games. Just because it doesn't synergize well with other regression perks or generator perks doesn't mean that it can't synergize indirectly with other perks in your build if your goal while picking a build is to maximize your time spent chasing and hooking survivors for "natural" game slowdown.
It's not hard to understand how it's useful in its own right, regardless of synergies. Not kicking gens saves time. Regressing a gen from a distance saves time and can sometimes stop gens from being popped in your face. Just because it doesn't synergize directly with other types of perks doesn't mean you shouldn't "see any reason to ever pick the perk over pop" if it already does what you need it to in the context of your build. If you don't like the perk, fair enough, but it's already pretty strong and useful in the right hands.
Have you considered trying out some new hands? 😄
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People are allowed to run a single regression perk with 3 other types of perks, so the idea that "Its bad b/c no synergy" falls apart. Obviously you're going to make a build with a goal in mind (i.e., "I want a build that maximizes my chase time").
Dracula is one of the best users of this perk, because his camera in bat form is not only third person but high up, giving great vision on ens to explode with TBTC. Stopping to kick the gen gives survivors more time to hide/stealth.
It's a hybrid regression/chase perk with a niche but potentially powerful use case.
Though I wouldn't mind if it regressed just 1% more for flavor so that it regresses a gen by Eleven percent. 😅
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If I get this map as killer, I usually sigh and make the best of it but I really don't have fun, depending on the killer.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
does anybody want will, just out of curiosity?
I do, because it all started with his disappearance and then he gets powers. Will as an Eleven skin and Max as a Dustin skin would be amazing. Of course my number one request is more outfits for Steve, Nancy, and Demo, though I do think adding Joyce and Hopper would be neat.
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@Mandy said:
There is no plans for this. There used to be a third party tool in the past that did the same type of thing, and of course it was abused by players blocking people who beat them - killers blocking survivors, survivors blocking someone because they played Nurse for example. It's definitely not something we want to see happening again.
What about a system where you're more likely to match with people you've given props to? I'd love to have a way to play multiple games with the same person to "bond" a bit before I decide to potentially friend them.
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My question is: Why do all invocations have to have the exact same "price"?
I think Weaving Spiders is fine as is, because up to 70% permanent generator progress is a very strong effect.
And while I know this has been said a million times already, Treacherous Crows has many issues. The most obvious problem is that becoming broken for the rest of the trial is not worth the perk's effect; the effect doesn't make a ton of sense either because if you're being chased, you'll be scaring crows, not the killer.
So, how to fix Treacherous Crows? The first idea is to just make it so that when a survivor scares a crow, the killer's aura gets revealed to that survivor for 2s. That simple change would already make it so much better. But I also think they should reevaluate invocation perks' penalties to better fit the power level of the perk. In Treacherous Crows's case, I believe becoming broken for 120s (as opposed to the rest of the trial) is much more fair.
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@Mandy said:
not a request I expected to see this Monday morning…
Oh come on, you know you want it too now that you've see him in (almost) all his glory 🤣
The, uh, "thirsty" part of the DBD community never ceases to amaze me in the strangest ways lmao
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I believe that badge is from Tome 20 (Mythic) and hasn't been released to the store, so there's no way to obtain it at the moment :[
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I think he's in a much better place now, but have any of you played AGAINST the new changes? I'm glad Unknown players are feelin' good about it, and I just want survivors to be able to have as much fun as the killer would, so I'm curious what they think.
I've only gone against him once since the update. He didn't feel oppressive that's for sure, but you REALLY feel that grace period decrease when trying to dispel Weakened, doubly so if you're being chased. If they change him more in the future I'd recommend avoiding making the grace period any shorter.
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I love what this character can do. Feels incredibly rewarding to play and do well with him, but a team that knows his counterplay won't make it easy.
My only complaint is that having hold-to-teleport AND power toggle on the same button can result in some… friction.
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Some of these perks need some help. More "Permanent Progression" perks are a bad idea at this time imo. Here's an idea I had for Vigilance so that it wouldn't be so… bland. Think Potential Energy for killer where they can charge a strong gen kick by either revealing the Obsession's aura for a good bit or by making the Obsession change during the game.
Vigilance
- This perk starts with 0 tokens. For each second the aura of the Obsession is revealed to you, you gain 1 token, up to 20.
- Every time you basic-break a generator, all tokens are spent.
- For each token you have, your next basic-break action reduces that generator's progress by an extra 1%.
- Every 30s, if the Obsession is at least 36/34/32m away from you, you see their Aura for 5s.
- If the Obsession changes from one survivor to another, this perk gains 10 tokens.
- If the Obsession is dead, this perk deactivates
A perk that has synergy with many different unconventional perks and playstyles, doesn't promote tunneling, and provides meaningful regression (but doesn't stack cleanly with other regression perks) would be very appreciated.
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@Pikaso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077245#Comment_4077245
I understand your concern about Low MMR, but we can't keep balancing the game around players who refuse to learn the mechanics. Someone has to go down first—that is the fundamental rule of the game. If it didn't work that way, we wouldn't be playing a horror game; we'd be playing tag.Survivors have an advantage from the very second the match starts. They spawn near their objectives and can start progressing immediately. The Killer has to find, chase, and outplay someone just to start their pressure. For many weaker killers, being showered with pallets early on makes this nearly impossible. Hooklust isn't about crushing new players; it’s about giving the Killer a 'fair' and 'equal' footing. If a Survivor gets downed and DCs, that’s a 'skill issue' and a toxic attitude, not a flaw in the mechanic. They have an entire map of resources—if they fail to use them, they shouldn't punish the Killer’s momentum.Regarding your point about Sadako's multiple reworks: BHVR did 2 or 3 reworks in a short time precisely because they don't have a sensible, core approach to balance. They are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. My question is: What would you change then?If we had solid base-kit mechanics like Hooklust and Free Time, we wouldn't need to constantly 'fix' every killer individually. These changes address the universal problems of the game. Instead of sticking to a 'messy and chaotic' system that makes people quit, we should implement a vision that actually respects the Killer's role as a powerful threat, while giving Survivors a fair way to reset.
If it was truly universal then it would be a problem across all killers and mmr groups, and it's just not.
I believe players not getting matched with others of approximately equal skill is one of the root causes of a lot of frustration in this game.
This is just a rough idea, but if I was in charge, the first thing I'd do is rework mmr, incorporating the Emblem system into it to at the very least have a better approximation of a player's skill so that matchmaking works better. I'd make players' mmr affected by the number of emblem points they get in a game divided by the total emblem points they could have theoretically gotten from that game; 1 point per emblem rank, so 16 points total potentially per game.
Now, for a player's first game, let's say a player gets x/16 points (which will always be a fraction less than 1) and we multiply it with some non-zero starting number A(0) that every player starts at, giving us a new number, A(1). Next game: player gets y/16 points, and we multiply it by A(1) to get A(2), and so on.
Now, if we iterate across many games, and divide a player's A(n) value by the number of games played, you get a measure of how quickly a player's A(0) decayed per game. This is the key statistic that I believe reflects a player's skill the best in Dead by Daylight.
Players who consistently get high Emblem scores will end up having an A(n) that, when compared to A(0), show a slower rate of decay from A(0) per trial, and consequently be considered tougher opponents and better teammates, which is why it's so important that the Emblem system provides relevant data. Bad inputs, useless outputs.
(The only problem with a system like this is that a player's A(n) can only go down. Due to this inconvenience I'd recommend a partial reset every few months. For example, every 3 months, the last 1.5 months of data are thrown out and your A(n) is recalculated using the data it has until you play more games.)
For survivors, Emblems would need to be tweaked to have a lower emphasis on escaping, and a higher emphasis on getting credit for performing actions widely considered skillful (e.g. pallet saves, long chases, etc.). The Unbroken Emblem would need the biggest overhaul.
Killers would probably need changes to their emblems as well but not nearly to the extent of survivors.
After we see how people do when they're being better matched by skill, then we can start to talk base kit stuff.
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@Pikaso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076922#Comment_4076922
You mention Bloodlust, but in theory, it’s just a bandage for finishing a chase. The 'penalty' for using it is losing it the moment you get a hit, get stunned, use your power, or kick a pallet. This completely defeats the purpose of the mechanic if you're trying to actually maintain pressure.The killer roster is huge—some are strong, some are weak. If a Nurse downs and hooks someone in 30 seconds, Hooklust won't change that. But for killers like Sadako or Bubba, who can’t even get close because they are showered with pallets from the start, this mechanic is vital. It’s about a fair and secure start for the Killer.When you play Killer, you're supposed to be a powerful monster with supernatural abilities. Instead, you're often bullied and humiliated by 'Survivors' who should be trying to survive, not mentally break their opponent. It's like kicking a guy with a knife in the balls and laughing at him—it doesn't fit the theme of the game.The current anti-tunnel system is toxic because Survivors weaponize it. They use their 'fat' collision and Endurance to bodyblock and protect others instead of actually escaping. Everyone complains about Endgame situations where you can't counter Borrowed Time at the gates, while even the Anti-Facecamp system (the only decent system BHVR made) turns off.I’ll say it again: Hooklust is about a safe first hook. In a bad situation where you have 2 gens left and you're finally getting your first down, having a survivor attack you and deny that hook is a total disaster. Hooklust guarantees that your match actually starts
You want to help killers that the devs have left behind, and I respect that. I want that as well. The problem is that the ideas you're proposing would just result in more games where the first survivor downed disconnects, ruining the game for everyone else, even if it's a killer with a low kill rate.
You're also focusing very heavily on mid-to-high MMR play. Sadako, for example, destroys teams at low-to-mid MMR, but falls off hard after survivors get a little better against her. A base kit change like what you suggest would make her be more overbearing against new or low MMR players for no reason. The solution would be to balance her kit better, but the only thing 2 or 3 reworks in close succession achieved was making everyone confused about what her tapes even do, which lingers to this day.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076918#Comment_4076918
You say that but is that really META? We aren't able to queue up quickly and often to say that, 2 good killers ending chases quickly and piling on pressure together is a nightmare to deal with.
I'm having success playing together with my friends, so, I wouldn't say it isn't uneffective at all. I feel it's definately worse to rely on a friend who isn't very good at communicating/is still newish to killer, that's for sure.
Plus playing solo really denies you the benefits of the killer classes, maybe that's why people are struggling so much. There is no shame asking for help from a friend, some of these map tiles are crazy.It really is though. I'm not saying killers should never help their partners… but if they so happen to need the help and you go over to help, depending on where you both are you're probably losing at least 2 gens if not more in exchange for that hook state.
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I'm sorry, I get the intent behind it, but this is poorly thought through. Killers already have a mechanic to help them if chases are taking a while: Bloodlust. If they need more help than that they need to learn the game better or accept their defeat without crashing out.
The killer roster is too diverse for this kind of change. Some killers can get to a survivor within 10 seconds of the match starting. Why do they need the help?
Flashlight and pallet saves can be some of the most exciting situations in entire trials. They also allow for more skill expression on both sides. Removing core mechanics because some people are afraid of any kind of failure is ridiculous.
Also, can we take a step back to focus on the fact that you're trying to find a way to prevent killers from dcing? That's not even on anyone's radar as an issue, because if the killer quits, the game ends. Meanwhile you can't go more than ~5 or so games without at least one survivor immediately giving up on a good day.
Your suggestions regarding tunneling don't make a lot of sense either because they take away a lot of player agency and the memorable situations that result. I want to be able to make decisions that have an impact on the trial, and what I do as a survivor whether it's after unhooking someone or being unhooked, or what I do as a killer when someone unhooks near me, are often some of the most important, match-defining decisions I can make.
I don't want the devs, as a killer or survivor, to "solve" tunneling by just making it impossible. I want them to implement something messy and chaotic, but mostly fair for everyone, where choices still matter.
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Having a big terror radius would let you inflict madness on more survivors… but it would also make tracking much harder, because if you make a survivor scream halfway across the map they will probably be long gone by time you get there.
I personally value the tracking aspect more, because madness is kinda mid as far as passive slowdown is concerned.
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Re:Zero. So much psychological horror disguised as a fantasy isekai.