AliceNull
AliceNull
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@NotJared said:
These two perks do almost the exact same thing now except one is objectively better with a bonus effect.
(Yes, I know they technically have different requirements for use, but not much enough that they feel like different perks)
The ability to heal yourself faster with medkits/self care/strength in shadows is a fantastic reason to bring botany over EC, and using medkits for self-heals is really common. The difference might be simple but its pretty significant.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116597#Comment_4116597
Are you suggesting remove her second blink?
No, I think that having a second blink attempt is in of itself fine, its the ability to use it to immediately correct your position and get a guaranteed lunge as long as you were close enough with blink 1 that would need to be changed.
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The thing you'd need to do to fix Nurse without at least vaguely changing her identity or adding entirely new mechanics is something that Nurse players would outright riot over. Aura gets talked about a lot, but a lot of better nurse players really do not rely heavily on aura reading, and its never really been integral to why she's the best killer in the game. Blindness would still leave her as top 1 of 1 out of the entire roster.
The problem is the 'booster blink'. (Editing for clarification: Booster blink refers to quickly being able to use B2, not having a second blink in general.) The lack of any kind of significant delay between blink 1 completing and having blink 2 available means that after a certain level of skill, a successful blink attack becomes less an issue of reads or winning the mindgames that make going against low/mid level nurses genuinely fun, its a matter of 'did I wait for my second charge or not'. She blinks forward into a close enough threat range, and immediately micro-blinks after to secure the hit if necessary. No survivor reaction opportunities beyond something like Dead Hard, no ambiguity, just being good enough at tracking, blink mechanics and map/terrain familiarity to secure the hit essentially every time. If you want Nurse out of S tier without a rework, you need to remove these hit confirms. -
They're clearly testing one of Sienna's perks out early, those wings on her costume aren't just going to be for show.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115570#Comment_4115570
I'm not really sure I see that kind of effect meaningfully happening in most matches. Normalising out 1-2-1-0 to 1-1-1-1 by 4 hooks may make survivor two play slightly less cautiously, but that comes at the cost of survivor four now having a whole chase/down/hook removed from them so it doesn't actually add that much to the game overall.
You as the killer still get the full weight of hook value, and you're if anything also closer to threatening the whole team since now everyone is one hook away from death hook - there's not a 'fresh' survivor to take any aggro or go for a riskier save or anything.Not to mention that in this scenario, the only way it works out is if survivor four and only survivor four is the one who actually has StB equipped. It can't be survivor two for obvious reasons, but it being survivor one or survivor three just shuffles around who's closer to death.
If multiple survivors are running it in this scenario, then multiple survivors have dead perk slots, so that's not a much better outcome either.The pressure being lessened on survivor two here only matters if they're actually the one being targeted by the killer next, and the only time that's guaranteed is if they're being tunnelled. Otherwise there's way too many variables outside of the players' control to conclusively say StB is actually helping much- it's a maybe at best.
I strongly disagree both from going against the perk as someone who doesn't hard tunnel when I play killer and as someone who brings the perk into my matches decently often. The pressure being lessened matters a very significant amount on survivor 2 for the simple reason that getting found again at all becomes a removed player otherwise. Many killers run some amount of aura reading, or have information baked into their kit, and can prioritize survivor 2 after their next chase without tunneling them off hook. The killer catching 2 moving around and dropping chase for them is often game losing for me, and is not uncommon at all in solo queue where its difficult to know where to lead chases away from.
Even if they don't have that information - you're now in a situation where two injures and a hook becomes a strong proxy option that is difficult to break through without cutting a lot of gen time, and have a pretty weakened ability to attack important generators with one less valid survivor to rotate to them. And thats before considering potential snowball potential - slugging survivor 4 becomes a much more reasonable tempo option, 2 basically HAS to find another survivor for the heal if a hook trade happens, end game becomes much harder to play, and so on. Having a 4th body on the board for any real amount of time is better than 2-3 survivor perk slots in every single situation, and if players were less allergic to leaving their teammates on hook for longer than 5 seconds after the killer turns around, I would bring Shoulder every single time. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115538#Comment_4115538
What makes you say StB is a balance issue?
It already doesn't do anything of note if the killer isn't tunneling, which seems like a pretty fair restriction to me.
Because it absolutely does do a LOT if the killer isn't tunneling. Forcing hook stages to be normalized across your team is a very, very powerful safety valve for pressure. Unless your definition of tunneling is ridiculous to the point that not 4-hooking arbitrarily is tunneling, it is very common for hook stages to be 1-2-1-0 by 4 hooks without someone being hard targeted, and (while less common) particularly stubborn survivors returning to an important gen the killer is patrolling, or survivors against killers with high map mobility can be put to 1-2-0-0 by 3 hooks even with a full reset just by happenstance.
Having someone on death hook changes a lot about how survivors play, or at least how they should play. In these cases, survivor 2 has to be much, much more careful about everything from what gen they're doing, to whether they go for saves, to even crossing the map. It often draws out altruism from the rest of the team that can lead to pretty heavy snowballing as well. Shoulder just eats all that death hook pressure, and often for free if its done at the right time or if the killer relies on damaging M2s for downs so they can't make use of the exposed. -
I'd say the two perks I hate the most are Dissolution and Blood Favour.
I think that Dissolution is just badly designed and in need of a rework, its definitely not overpowered in a balance sense and can even be outright useless in a lot of matches or situations, but I find that to be part of the problem, personally. And there are killers that make it a more frustrating experience outright like Ghoul or Krasue given how good they are at punishing tile transitions.
Blood Favour is more of an actual problem in my opinion, though the recent nerfs to Thrill have made it less of one. I think it could do with some kind of restriction or limiting factor like an activation condition, as it activating off of M2s leads to it being overly strong on a lot of the high end killers that have good two tap potential without resources, and it being active off the start leads to early snowballing. You might be able to cleanse the totem, but all it really takes is 2 or 3 good activations to get significant value from the perk in my opinion.
On the survivor side, though, I think Shoulder The Burden is an interesting and fun perk to use…that is a genuine balance issue unfortunately. Less with the vigil change, for sure, but its downside isn't enough for its strengths, and the only reason its not being seen more is how common it is for people to unhook badly and not look at their teammates perks. At its core, it needs to either actually lose strength against people who aren't tunneling, or have a more significant downside to using it (importantly, not both at the same time!). I'm not opposed to leaving it as a generally strong perk rather than making it anti-tunnel, but it should really see a similar injured and broken condition to For The People if its going to stay that way. -
10% additional regression over TBTC is plenty of reason for certain killers to value Pop over the convenience of doing it at range, even if we're just comparing the two on their own.
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@ForTheEntity said:
Because someone at BHVR who checks certain boxes but only knows how to make minor lobby UI changes needs to justify their continuing employment.
"Checks certain boxes"
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No idea if this would work for you, but if you haven't updated your GPU drivers and you're still suffering from the stuttering give it a shot. I was having these issues and they only seemed to calm down after a driver update/replacement.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114477#Comment_4114477
Okay thanks for at least sending me something. I wanna engage in this not as an argument but to try and show you my perspective and what I mean when i talk about this killer and the judgement. But I have to call out why I think this video doesn't demonstrate what this killer actually does. Also I know this is only one video so I'm not fully judging off that just making assertions off the video.
Sure this killer player plays alot of Henry and he's not Terrible but do you think this guy played really well this game? Or even just pretty decently? And do you think the survivors played well? Just start from there okay.
Watching this video this guy from my Pov made aLOT of silly mistakes that made the game alot closer than it should have been. He took alot of pot shots and missed lots of them, which was unlucky but also mistakes by him because he took alot of unnescasery risks, which he even mentions himself at one point in the video. He also makes alot of terrible macro mistakes involving bad slugs etc that cost him alot of pressure. Not relevant to Henry himself but to the result he gets which is part of the discussion on his power level. Most important I don't think he's always aiming correctly. He also aims a decent chunk of his shots really poorly and impatiently. Take the time stamp 1:35 for example. Over the next minute during this chase starting with his first shot he wildly misses many attacks, where it's quite possible to be slightly more patient and at the very minimum get a shot that's likely going to hit, let alone guaranteed. Infact he ends up just m1 downing this Cheryl because he missed so many. You could say that she "played well" but what did she do that was different or unique from other players? Or what made her so smart in this chase? She kind of just moved around sporadically around that shack, got lucky when he whiffed a significant number of his shots pointlessly and then just died anyway. Despite these things as well, there's alot more I could go into, he still ends up winning regardless, with quite a mediocre build and average macro.
I'm interested to see this knightlight gameplay you are talking about and granted I'll need to look into it, but having some lucky chases or randomly good chases doesn't mean the killer isn't still a 50/50 uninteractive machine. I'd be willing to bet that Knightlight gets 2 tapped in just as many chases as he last a while despite playing the same way with the intentional and smart and decisive movement. T
Regarding your last paragraph I don't think going against Henry or playing against him takes much skill. When you play henry, you'll notice that its the survivors who don't look behind themselves, who aren't aware of their own or the killers movement and don't think intentionally about their movements that are harder to chase than the survivors with deliberate and precise and smart movement.
I might try and record some gameplay of my own to show you some of the things i mean in regards to mechanics and aiming etc, but we should continue this discussion, I think it's important for you to understand what I'm saying and demonstrate it.
Yes, I do actually think she is deliberately baiting out certain called shots and reacting in ways that are hard to read, I think those things are explicitly a skill, and that these players are doing it deliberately and with intent. Some players might execute it better at a given time across games or the like, but its not just random. The fact that Henry isn't super common and there aren't a lot of compilations against him that have taken place is unfortunately roadblock. Like, essentially having to rely on the perspective of the killer makes this a frustrating conversation in ways that are obviously not your fault, unless you've running some kind of secret anti-Henry world programme I don't know about (likely collaborating with the shadowy organization that keeps fog vials undertuned, I'm on to you), and it means I tend to have to pull footage from the Henry players themselves.
I also come from a fighting game background, where there are - across a lot of different games and subgenres - very small interactions and mindgames that might seem random to an outsider that are very much intentionally done with intent. When I see players pre-emptively juking backwards when cutting near a corridor or LOS blocker, I don't see a gamble, I see the same decision making that goes into (just as a random example) a shimmy, or a safe jump against a player or character who likes to DP jump-ins, even if the interactions are much more simple in DBD than in fighting games. A lot of interactions with Henry especially feel the same way from both sides, and while I'm not personally a fantastic player or anything, when I do well against Henry (or on Henry!) when people are even bothering to try and counterplay eachother, its often because I'm baiting out specific reactions on purpose and then taking advantage of them. Going back to an earlier example you gave, I also don't really see the distinction between a good Billy player reading a flare-out and getting the down by cutting wide on purpose vs. a Henry reading a double-back and getting a hit for it, same with the opposite interactions and results from the survivor POV.
Can you give me an example of a Henry player that you would describe as good - even in your position of Henry being a low skill ceiling character - that is not making 'silly mistakes' in your opinion, that is losing chases to people behaving randomly? -
@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114223#Comment_4114223
Okay I'm happy to look just send a link or something.
It's difficult to find from the survivor pov however because its not reliable, you don't see comp players or likewise demonstrating and showing their skills against henry.
Like I said, the titles and thumbnails are always a little (or more than a little) obnoxious but the videos themselves are quite good IMO. I really wish I could find more channels that do the no voice with text commentary thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tohymR42Io4There are a lot of throughlines between survivors in the videos across their channel that are able to take longer chases, and this is a dedicated Henry specialist (though not a complete one trick) who plays on Hong Kong servers.
Also, being real, Henry just isn't that popular. I've gone to the stream of someone I consider a fairly skilled looper in the general playerbase rather than the extreme end with the comp scene (Cope ((the person)), if you're familiar at all) who streams multiple hours of the game frequently, and they almost never SEE Henry in their matches. While I skimmed because I'm not going to spend hours and hours looking or anything, I've genuinely seen more Onryo than Henry during their streams. Across 20+ hours of footage you might find 3~5 matches against the character, and the 1v4 means they're only going to be chased occasionally…not exactly easy to grab footage from that POV.
But, given you're talking comp players, lets talk comp players. Knightlight is known for calling Henry casino gameplay! So, its settled! …Until you actually pay attention to his mechanics instead of the talk on stream. When he's locked in, he's paying attention to the ground and directly reacting to M2s, dodging in specific ways on purpose that WORK, and is outplaying Henry in chase to last long in ways that are DIRECTLY similar to a lot of the successful survivors/strategies you'll see doing well in chases against people like ILoseToWin. If you wanted to go through KnightLight's footage and stitch together his matches against the character, somehow I doubt you're going to see him taking it seriously against average Henry players and just getting dice rolled to death on the regular, or see significantly less skilled players get the same results if you were to put them in these chases just by slapping their keyboards. I mean, you can compare him to his solo queue teammates in these exact matches, even.
Even if you want to say 'well, going AGAINST Henry takes skill, its PLAYING the character that has a low skill ceiling' why do we see specialists or highly skilled killer players getting outcomes that the general playerbase aren't? If you're willing to burn out your retinas watching his awful filters, do you think an average Henry is going to see even remotely close to the same kind of results as people like OnePumpWillie over the long term? That if a slightly above decent player tries their best with some practice added on, they're going to end up tossing out winstreak numbers in the triple digits on the character, or that they'll get the same chase results but eat dirt on the macro level exclusively? -
@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114174#Comment_4114174
Look if you can show me a survivor player who can reliably and consistently juke a henry and last decently in chase i'm all ears, but I'm get to see it.
You made some statements there like "survivors need to stay calm and react, don't dodge too obviously" well the first one isn't true because his attack is literally unreactable if he's patient with it, and there's a difference between dodging not obviously and skillfully and dodging sporadically and randomly.
When you say that survivors beating vecna are making intentional movements that get them results can you show me examples of this? Survivors can beat Vecna by running to corners and just wasting time provided they get a good map and get a few lucky shots but i dont see reliable counter play at all.
When you mention breaking line of sight as a counter strategy, that only works against nurse as she's slower than survivors and has to fatigue after every power usage. Vecna does not, and he's 110, not 95.
So, its going to be difficult for me to find this sort of content from the survivor POV, especially from the survivor POV against an average or upper-middle Henry where the skill difference is going to be more pronounced. Those channels (or at least the ones I watch regularly) don't tend to have tagging system or character focuses in their videos, and kind of by nature I'd need to comb through a LOT of stream footage because they face a whole bunch of different killers.
What I CAN do is grab you a video from a dedicated, very skilled Henry player that showcases a couple 30~40 second chases with distinct differences in their movement both between levels of the survivors and the good survivor's own very different chase outcomes, and where the Henry notably adapts over time…as long as you're willing to deal with an admittedly obnoxious clickbait thumbnail and title combination from a creator I enjoy, if you'd like. (They do a specific editing style that I love but can barely find creators for, I've still not found a single survivor channel that does it despite searching for it and even most of the killer ones have stopped or changed styles.) -
@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114132#Comment_4114132
Theres a huge difference between 50/50 style predictions and pattern recognition gameplay and rock paper scissor style gameplay or more advantaged prediction based gameplay. Lets take a good killer like huntress for example. Imma credit someone who neatly explained this to me but let me demonstrate.
Lets start with your example of mind gaming tiles whilst hiding the red stain. Red stain mindgames are not 50/50s, they are many options available for survivors and killers. Survivors can double back, commit or break away, there's many directions of play they can make. Killers can predict this play and subsequently make moves to predict survivor movements or trick them. Survivors can subsequently predict these predictions and the loop goes on. Its a complex series of predictions but also recognising playstyles of different players, adapting to movement etc. Good survivors and cool killers can abuse the red light, movement, check spots, walking techniques etc which introduces a whole range of interesting gameplay interactions.
Lets go to some killer powers that are not 50/50s and i'll explain why. A character like huntress always has a beatable option and a drawback for committing to an option. For example, a huntress drawing up her hatchet is something she needs to commit to, and has drawbacks associated with it. Sure the act of do i or do i not drop the pallet against a huntress is a 50/50, but there's a million other interactions and predictions that can be made before you get into that situation. The gameplay around dropping the pallet on huntress also is not a 50/50, you can run through the pallet, drop the pallet, hesitate at the pallet to bait a windup and then continue running, you can hesitate and then pretend to run and then actually dodge. And just like the m1 mind game example there's limitless interactions and predictions that both the killer and survivor can make regarding each other’s movement and play, rewarding smart and mechanically skilled players.
For Billy, there's many options for both players in chases once again. If you're at a loop, he can flick you tightly, he can go wide with the chainsaw, he can predict you going wide and go wide himself, he can predict a break away, a survivor can predict him going wide and hug the loop regardless or play around corner pockets, they can utilise crouch techs and either side can predict crouch techs and play accordingly. There's a much greater depth to the interactions which can be made between the players.
Even the pig example you can fake dashing around a loop or commit to the loop and react accordingly, you can break to the loop, you could even pretend to play the loop and then drop the pallet, you could utilise a window set up. Many potential outcomes in a chase.
Henry is not entirely luck based but there's a very low and set skill cap to his killers power and interactions with the survivors. Once killers and survivors understand how it works, it comes down to whether the killer can hit the power or not. Survivors don't get much of a say in this interaction, they try to frantically and randomly dodge hoping that the killer misses the power. There's no adapting to the movement and play styles of the other play when playing either this killer or survivor, no drawback to using the power or making predictions, it's simply a waiting game for when the killer is good enough to hit their power consistently. Thus, all his chases end up playing out the exact same way.
I strongly disagree with the idea that characters like Henry or Judgement have low skill ceilings or aren't interactive. While I'm not confident enough to come out with a called shot on whether we'll see some kind of disgusting tech on Judgement specifically or not in the future, Henry doesn't really have 100% setups unless you're animation locked or in an incredibly tight corridor with him body blocking you, and you have a lot of room for skill expression and mindgames even on the micro level on both sides, its just not strongly tied to traditional tiles or how they're usually played. I think you are REALLY oversimplifying these interactions.
The way someone uses line of sight breakers and whether Henry is able to predict their movement, how long the Henry holds after the initial sound indicator and whether a survivor can stay calm and react to when they finally use the M2, how much distance you're getting for each dodge and whether you use that distance effectively, where specifically you are dodging to and why, whether you're making use of open space or putting yourself in a bad position by committing too obviously - these are things each player can get into the other's head about, and can try and condition their opponents with. There are survivors who are skilled at dodging these M2 shots, even against good Henry players, and they're not achieving that on accident or by just haphazardly rolling their hands across their controls and hoping he misses.
Its easier to watch skilled Henry players streaming and focus on the survivors in the matches they lose to get an idea of what I mean - just because survivors aren't really making "VS. HENRY (or judgement)" compilations outside of like, maybe the first week or two of their release, though I'd like to see more of that - but they're not just jittering around randomly and praying, they're making intentional decisions that get them results. Playing vs. Henry (and Judgement) can be particularly difficult partially because its an entirely new skill you have to learn! The survivors in these winning vs. losing (or even winning but much closer) matches aren't just getting gambled on, they're playing in very different ways. -
@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/471927/judgement-is-guess-slop-garbage
Yeah skillful gameplay is slowly being erased in this game for guesswork 50/50 gameplay. People will argue that other killers have 50/50 guess work but that’s precisely the problem, too many killers now and too much of the gameplay is 50/50s.
This is complete nonsense on almost every level. Predictions, pattern recognition/playstyle adaptation and reaction baiting are all skills, and have been integral to what skill even looks like in DBD for the games ENTIRE lifespan, down to the fundamentals of playing an M1 killer in the first place. What even defines '50/50s' here from the two of you? You have a pig avatar, so I'll start with that. Are vibe checks to bait people to leave tiles 'guesswork 50/50s'? What about mindgaming tiles while hiding your red stain for M1 plays? Are ambush reversals 'guess slop' because they rely on predicting whether or not your opponent is going to react a certain way and can be countered?
There are skilled Henry players who are hitting the majority of their shots in the majority of their matches, including ones behind cover without aura reading. There are skilled survivors who are able to run average Henry players for pretty extensive lengths of time and reliably dodge their M2s. Are you or OP going to sit there and say these players are just rolling dice all game and HAPPEN to get lucky constantly, across dozens or even hundreds of matches? If you're going to say yes to those, but not to Pig, where do you draw the line between them? Frankly this all seems to be 'fighting games are just button mashing!' levels of cope. -
@SkeletalElite said:
The classic BHVR double tap. Give a perk a small nerf that would have been fair but fine and then a 2nd nerf on top of it that completely puts the perk in the dirt. I don't understand why BHVR always does this?
If vigil is going to only affect exhausted, it needs to be as high as it was before the nerf at 66%. 40% was fair affecting every status.
BHVR completely dropped the ball on interpreting the feedback here. People had 1 problem with vigil in terms of the statuses it affected and it was that killer powers which were reliant on status effects like clown and freddy were affected.
No one cares that Forced Hesitation and Knock out are getting soft countered by this perk. They care that entire killers become significantly weaker. All they had to do to fix that was give these killers unique status effects similar to how ghost face doesn't apply exposed, he applies his mark, which then in turn applies exposed for its duration.Honestly I actually strongly agree with the direction of wanting to avoid some of the more problematic interactions with other perks on both sides. It means they can more cleanly balance the strength of perks like Make Your Choice, Ravenous, Scared To Death etc. for killers, and avoid Vigil coming into play when discussing the balance of survivor perks with downsides like Shoulder, FTP, Deliverance etc., I just also think it should be a strong exhaustion option after that change.
Realistically the move from 1.40/s recovery to 1.30/s isn't even going to be that much of a difference on a practical level, only changing it by 2~3 seconds on a 40 second timer baseline if my maths are correct, but its adding on to its earlier numbers adjustment in a way that feels…poorly timed and unnecessary, even if its hardly the end of the world.
I just wish we had more of an understanding of what exactly the balance target for vigil is meant to be. Just focusing on exhaustion, there don't seem to be any immediately noticeable break points they'd need to hit (the way the Thrill nerfs did very competently by making it so a single token loss stopped Face The Darkness from auto defending, for an example) so its all a bit nebulous what this particular numbers adjustment is for exactly, though theres always the chance I'm being dim and missing something obvious. -
@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113626#Comment_4113626
didn't they say they weren't actually changing it until a later patch?
Its listed under the survivor perk changes in the hotfix that rolled out today, alongside a followup buff to Repressed Alliance that takes 15 seconds off its time to charge, which is quite nice and welcome.
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@Balrog said:
Calling them buffs and nerfs can oversimplify the intention behind today's changes. For example, the curve allows for more skill expression without it being a dramatic change.
The Knight change allows for the Guards to phase through a pallet whilst dropped on them, or return the Guard power to the Knight if the pathing around a pallet is greater than 48m. This is a compromise between the phasing and how the power previously would leave the Knight without a power whilst a Guard followed a long path around a dropped pallet.Thank you for stepping in to give some explicit reasoning behind the changes.
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@pidgeon said:
The guards always behaved like this to my knowledge I might be schizophrenic though who knows.
My bad if thats the normal interaction (I don't see many knights being quite honest with you) but if its all well and normal why is it in the update section alongside another killer getting a straight buff? Not doubting you, its just weird they'd put it there.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113111#Comment_4113111
I think also there's the fact that the Judgment completely negates anti-tunnel perks, but I guess if you think that's alright as well we just wholeheartedly disagree with each other
I think its fine because Judgement is really bad at tunneling if you're playing around her power and shrines well. She's bad at guarding traditional hooks because her power has built in anti-camp and she's 4.4 (and traditional hooks would activate those perks anyways), she doesn't know which exile shrines are active by default, and even if she figures it out through visuals or knowing where the closest two shrines are beforehand she really can't guard both, especially not both AND objectives at the same time. Even once you get rescued, she doesn't get a notification, so she doesn't know from where unless she has direct line of sight, and you'll have 13~15 seconds of endurance, elusive, and the unhook speed boost that makes you the same speed as her if you've collected souls.
The times I've seen Judgement ACTUALLY straight up tunneling someone instead of just finding them later it has always been because people rescue too quickly, usually with her still around, and frequently followed by trying to heal inside her terror radius instead of making any kind of distance. Even in the worst case scenario, where she knows which shrines are active and is trying to guard them (and you aren't able to force her to commit to anything for some reason), stealthing until she charges her power at an objective and then rescuing from a shrine she's not on top of is hard counterplay to that strategy, and allows the rescued survivor to prerun her for filth if she makes the mistake of committing. -
@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112944#Comment_4112944
Boons can be kinda rough with thrill hex builds going around. If all the good spots are hex totem spawns or you get interrupted 90% to blessing a dull it really sucks.
I mean, sure, but this person was specifically struggling with aura reading, which is what I was suggesting answers to. If someones running the hex build and you're on boons its largely fine to just not boon hex totems specifically until you cleanse Thrill, and Thrill got a pretty heavy nerf that makes those builds a lot more tolerable anyways.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112905#Comment_4112905
I dont think you can compare those to. From my experience, it is very rare that Pyramid Head can sent people to Cages. And most just keep it for the Mini Mori.
For Judgment, except for one time, I have seen all Survivors been sent to the Exile. It is far more consistent for this Killer to do this.
That the Killer can also not use certain Perks is also not really relevant. There are still enough Perks to be used AND the Killer always knows what Killer will be in the game. So they just dont bring Hook-Perks. Survivors dont have that luxury, depending on your Build, you end up with a bunch of useless Perks against Judgment.
I agree as far as PHead being a poor comparison. Would you say that Plague and Sadako (at least current Sadako 3.0 with her condemned focus playstyle) are better points of reference? They're a lot closer in my opinion as far as being characters that completely shift the paradigm of a trial in ways that might interfere with certain builds, with that variant of Sadako even largely avoiding hooking in general outside of tape destruction. Personally, I think that kind of design is actually an overall positive as long as it doesn't become an overly frequent choice for killer releases.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112926#Comment_4112926
As a survivor one has no defense against aura reading builds. Tried Distortion it was gone instantly also interesting enough it doesn't even register the chases unless the killer right behind you. I suppose the play to wait for teammates to die and survive with sole survivor as the aura deny quite good. Thanks to mmr reset soloq is miserable
Shadow Step and A Place For Us are both very good against Judgement on aura reading, if you're looking for perks to try out to counter those builds specifically. Inner Strength is also quite good against both the aura build and as a solid payoff against her more totem focused playstyle. While not necessarily a counter in the traditional sense, Object of Obsession also lets you very quickly figure out what aura reading she's on and hit her with an "I'm getting my aura revealed? No, WE'RE getting our aura revealed" playstyle that is surprisingly strong against her given how slow she is to actually traverse the map. We See You can also be decent payoff, but can really backfire if she's on Deerstalker, so be careful on that one.
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I think he's still firmly part of the top 5~6 of the roster, but not an S tier monster the way Blight (still) and Nurse are. I think there is still solid room for him to be toned down into a healthier state given his crater of a skill floor, but its clear that BHVR haven't given Ghoul the bizarre mandate of heaven they've given the perpetual top two, and he doesn't even have something like the apology letter for overheat slapped to Billy's back as a similarly A+ killer.
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I cannot think of a faster way to get me to go from playing mostly solo survivor to becoming a 100% killer main than adding voice chat to this game. Even as an opt-in thing, because every game that tries going 'oh, its just opt in, its fine' always ends up having it become The Done Thing™️ to the point where not using it will cause players to crash out. Immediate death of any remaining or future horror vibes, toxicity cranked up to eleven, and matches on the UK or EU servers would now average 4 different slurs in 6 different languages per trial on a good day.
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111874#Comment_4111874
It's not really about the skill of counting. It's that the execution undermines the intended purpose of having unhook protection to begin with. The devs shouldn't be making tunneling easier. A built in "I can be tunneled now" timer definitely makes it easier, especially now that the protections have been shortened.
As others have said here, I believe this could be resolved pretty easily by making the Elusive slightly longer. Personally though, I'd even go as far as making the Elusive and Haste last 15 seconds, with the Endurance at 10 seconds, because unlike Endurance, the Haste and Elusive protections are purely escape tools for a survivor being tunneled, and can't really be abused offensively.
While I don't disagree 15 seconds of haste and elusive would be a decent enough compromise that wouldn't deal with the same issues, I just can't see where the current state actively makes tunneling meaningfully easier, even if we completely disregard the benefits of LoS breaking against people returning to hook without having direct visuals. While technically yes, how it exists IS an indicator, that only ever matters if killers weren't pretty much always waiting that timer out accurately anyways, which - in my experience, at least - just isn't the case, especially in situations where someone is tunneling and not just dealing with the endurance in endgame.
People just weren't making that mistake almost ever back during 15 seconds endurance, or the 10 seconds without elusive before that, at least as far as the people I went against. If I got hit early, it was because I was about to hit a window or pallet I could drop, and the killer wanted to concede the time loss by just taking the deep wounds. The amount of times I got hit early out in the open, or during a loop where waiting a second or two would have downed me were EXTREMELY rare. -
Why are we pretending that counting to 10 is a particularly difficult skill or that this is going to meaningfully increase how often people get hit after endurance? Most of the killers who have hit me pre-15 on the boosted duration did so because I was going to make a tile and they wanted to negate the possibility of dead hard or ds+locker plays, not because they misjudged how long it lasted.
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I strongly disagree that 10 seconds of elusive makes babysitter even noticeably weaker as an option. You still get strong information to make decisions on your end from the aura read, it still functions well as anti-tunnel if the killer is returning to hook and manages to spot them with the intent to take that chase, and the base duration of the scratch mark/pools of blood hiding is 3 times longer than the new basekit effect.
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111066#Comment_4111066
Its not really that different from Dead Sands or the secondary Borgo map.
Furthermore people have been pushing for tinier/worse maps for awhile, we still get complaints about pallet density despite most of the pallets being 80/20s. So I'm not convinced.Dead sands is so funny to me because it basically only exists as a landmine. Quite literally a bad, killer sided map created exclusively so people couldn't just burn crow's eyes to force an equally terrible survivor sided map back when SWFs could just hard dictate the realm choice.
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I think what would make the most sense is removing the movement speed penalty while removing a spear that is currently basekit and make that Deputy Badge's effect, with the numbers adjusted to make it reasonable as a purple addon.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111017#Comment_4111017
IK what you mean but unfortunately DBD doesn't provide proper stat breakdowns like it should, I made this point somewhere else earlier today: DBD has (unfortunately) become a Comp game in spirit in a lot of ways but BHVR has not provided almost any of the basic functions required of a Comp game, one of which is fully broken down stats per MMR Bracket so all we can use is what we have.
I am of the belief that a perk having "too common" of a high impact is a very bad grounds for a nerf. I will agree Vigil helps fortify an already solid Exhaustion perk meta but the only reasons to bring it apart from with exhaustion builds just got entirely nuked from it. I think perks across the board should guarantee an impact if we want to go that route, that's why losing Vigil is such a bad thing. If I am bringing a perk into a game with so many elements of RNG (what killer, what map, what build, what tile layout, what teammates, etc) I want it to be generally good. that is whats enforcing the meta more than anything, it is that Exhaustion perks ALWAYS have an impact, the line of perks related to chests do not, the luck perks do not, the totem perks do not, so on down the line.
And as I said already in this thread: We are going to have to clarify what is unhealthy for design reasons in this game because apparently it is beyond me… Vigil is too unhealthy but Plague isn't, and Tunneling isn't, and that the likes of even the new killer, The Judgement isn't… its an entire killer designed to win by slinging beams of light at people on gens from across the map… i think that's unhealthy, Voiding the point of loops and pallets is unhealthy… the game is absolutely full of unhealthy mechanics and ideas and that is because it doesn't have the framework for a comp game but people are pushing it to be one.
(and to clarify, I am not trying to justify the removal or change of any of those things except for Tunneling as I think its the most unhealthy thing in the game currently and has been for a long time, I am just saying that if we're going to start deciding things are "Unhealthy" rather than OP for kind of non-solid reasons "ehhh just does a little too much" then we better start fixing the glaring issues that are way bigger.)For me, in this case, I think the reason I think Vigil in its live state is a problem from a non-strength position is that it doesn't really add much particularly interesting or new while actively preventing players from branching out on the killer side. Like, even avoiding the meta discussion (which is still a little relevant as it makes Vigil more likely to show up). Like, I'll talk exclusively about non-meta perks on the survivor side that will be particularly sad to see the additionals on Vigil go. The only one that really cares all that much is For The People (a perk I love!), the other perks that inflict Broken that aren't Deli are all timer based if I'm remembering right, so it doesn't help at all for them, and the only perks that self-inflict Exposed are both good perks that either don't need the help or are explicitly overtuned as-is respectively. The exhaustion is sticking around, albeit weaker (which I think is a bit of a mistake and they should reconsider doing both nerfs at once) which is the main draw for picking Vigil, and ensures its going to show up often enough to matter as a consideration.
Meanwhile from the perspective of balancing and perk variety on the killer side, Vigil is just kind of a massive wet blanket for no particular reason? Very, very few recovery based status options are in the meta, and the majority of perks and addons that Vigil effects aren't strong enough to be worth picking even from just the fun perspective if it shows up regularly at all. The devs also have to either balance every new perk/addon they add or buff thats relevant to it on either side around 'well, what if one or two people bring vigil', or shrug their shoulders and let a fairly common perk just kind of shove these choices right out the window, often making those options an actively frustrating downside to try and use. And, like you said, its a passive - it doesn't really do anything particularly interesting on its own merits to justify any of it. -
@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110968#Comment_4110968
okay and I think its pretty easy to argue that a single killer totally negating an entire avenue of survivor gameplay just because that's their power is WAY more unhealthy than Vigil providing a faster recovery against negative status effects. I think you can argue that One survivor being sacrificed before the other three survivors get hooked is WAY more unhealthy than Vigil, its a problem of picking out the wrong things to balance. Vigil, as has been mentioned in this thread, is already below the 40% winrate target for escape rate as a perk and therefore is not unreasonably powerful. it can be measured this way because it is a perk that works as a passive and not an active, you have to look at perks like DH and DS differently because they provide an active skill component and might be better than direct winrate actually reports and people who are dying with those might just be losing more because they can't use them well. Vigil is a status cleanser and its fine… or was fine… now its pretty bad.
Are you using nightlight stats to determine pick/escape rate and overall strength? Those stats are notoriously unreliable, both because of reporting bias and the fact that a lot of perks or even some incredibly strong killers aren't really problems until a certain level of play, and you're not going to see those levels particularly represented in nightlight stats. Like, if we were to base our interpretations off of the stats right this very second, Pig would be the strongest killer in the game, even above the current Power 5, having a higher kill rate than even the lowest skill floor killer of the lot (Ghoul). I think its safe to say thats not the case in reality. Not to mention there isn't a single killer even vaguely meeting BHVR's 60% goals according to these stats.
Even if we were to account the fact that Vigil a passive, its also a passive gets its power by enabling the strongest meta perks that the more casual playerbase aren't using well or even bringing very often. The exhaustion perk its most effectively used with, Sprint Burst, is pretty well known as a perk that takes a fair bit of awareness and effort to use super effectively without wasting it, to the point a lot of people bringing in new players will warn people off the perk entirely, even though it seems the simplest on paper. Then you look at other strong perks that Vigil is a problem with, namely Deliverance and Shoulder The Burden. Both of these are perks that have a high skill floor and are DIRECTLY countered or outright prevented by common mistakes in solo queue, especially at the lower levels most represented by that site in the first place.
Besides, a perk can still be unhealthy for design reasons, not just direct strength that translates into kill or escape rates. Vigil in its live state acts as a pretty heavy enforcer of the current meta without really enabling any interesting side strategies on survivor. It makes the best perks better while also having a pretty heavy chilling effect on a wide variety of perks and add-ons on the killer side (many of which are already middling in strength, and would likely be unhealthy if they were buffed enough to compensate for Vigil's existence) just because invisibly wiping off almost half of any given status (in a LINGERING AOE no less, meaning you can't even tell who has it) just removes the fun or viability of the majority of recovery based status options. -
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110918#Comment_4110918
I agree for your final point there, players will still blame MMR - that's an unfortunate fact that happens in pretty much all games. There's no system that's perfect and its especially hard in an asymetrical game.
Kills and Escapes will still matter, its just that now they're not the only thing - it should address other things in a match, and I think that's been a lot of what players have said over the last few years. There are definitely big parts of that which do make sense - kills and escapes are one of the main constants in the game - so I don't think we're disagreeing here.
The game has changed a lot from what it was a few years ago, as have the players. We recognised that we could improve the system on how we calculate players MMR and we've worked to do that. Its been running in the background for a while as a kind of test (not impacting games, not used for matchmaking etc) and the data is looking good on it so far. It might need tweaking when its Live, we'll be keeping a close eye on it and making any adjustments as necessary.
Does the team have any intent to modify the stat tracker page to include team escape rate or any information from the new 'tally' MMR system, now that performance is team based rather than individual on the survivor side? Assuming I've even understood that correctly, I may have gotten that wrong.
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It is baffling to me how often this perk in particular just stops working every so often. At what point do the devs just throw up their hands and recode it to work like a DStrike that just happens to drop the pallet instead of relying on the pallet stun itself?
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110391#Comment_4110391
bro don't talk to me like i'm an Idiot, I absolutely can be serious about this. Videos have been going around showing the problem before nerf, in some situations you would have about 0.5 seconds to react to a beam if you were on a gen. if you happen to be checking what your team is doing that matters a lot, actually. I am not trying to say that I need 3 business days to read the simple UI on the side of the screen, what I am saying is that it's already enough that you can snipe someone through a wall, it doesn't need to be near immediate. when you are dealing with those situations where you get 0.5 seconds to react, and you happen to be looking at UI, or you happen to be hitting a skill check, or any number of other things that require you to briefly divert some of your attention, you might get hit and not have reasonable time to see it coming. it doesn't have the benefit of skill like the huntress hatchet does at that range its just a straight line once people get it down that voids terrain.
Why are people angry that a killer with a much more potent power than… bear trap guy or half invisible man, is made hard to play. that's the point of killer variation. if anything too many killers changed or added in recent history are getting too much for too little (or are entirely broken in an unplayable way, shout out houndmaster) there is nothing wrong with a stronger killer that is equally hard to play. We all know why the Nurse has sat at the top for so long, lets just wait and see how Judgement does in regular gameplay and then nerf or buff it accordingly after public release.
Acting like Ping doesn't insanely affect every killer damage interaction is ridiculous by the way, its always relevant, everyone sees a fair bit of it in their games, to pretend like it isn't relevant in an issue where they're making a snipe style ranged attack more detectable is dishonest.Honestly the increase in distance on the aura read is actually at least understandable, I actually tend agree with it from what I've seen of judgement on the PTB, and it should be an easy enough number to adjust in future patches if it doesn't work out…but I think a 'DODGE NOW' overlay like you're doing a QTE in an action game is more than a little embarrassing, and combined with how blatantly stupid their justification was, I don't think many people are going to think about the ins and outs of the range increase on its own merits separated from everything else, even if theres a real discussion to be had.
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DS on its own doesn't always get great value because of inconsistency in player behaviour and game situation, unless you're forcing the DS, which often takes another perk slot or potentially two depending on your preferred combination of plot twist and dead hard to pair with it. UB suffers from the same issue, with fewer ways to 'force' it outside of coordinated play, and while I think there might be a bit too much aversion to taking these insurance perks its also understandable that people tend to value consistency over big swings once every few games, even if those swings also address common pain points.
You actually see something similar on the killer side, not just survivors. Plenty of killers are a little averse to taking Languid Touch, Mindbreaker* (*You'll see this the most often as a soft counter to Sprint Burst and to throw off Five Moves/Windows for a bit, but its still not incredibly common) or Genetic Limits, even though exhaustion perks can be a major pain point for some people on that side of things.
…As a side note, UB hasn't been the big answer to slugging for a while now in general. Like its hardly a bad perk and the recovery speed is great on it, but I know a lot of people who much prefer Expo for the team value or Conviction for its reusability + more use cases outside of intentional slugging. -
@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110320#Comment_4110320
I think it's more of a matter of how the game feels to play. I play both as well and have about a 70% kill rate and a 55% escape rate but the survivor experience is ultimately reliant on more factors. you experience way more problems caused by other people, if you load into a game and you have a teammate crouch walking around the map its just an immediate sign this game is probably going to suck, if you load into a game and someone is getting hard tunneled while another teammate or even both teammates are trying to disrupt and save them and just getting beat down in the process the game is probably going to suck and so on down the line. a lot of killer powers that lean on the obnoxious side of things like Legion and Plague feel gratifying to play as but absolutely not against… so its a ton of things built on top of eachother to make you feel like you have no recourse in a lot of games other than to wait out hatch.
The experience just isn't the same as killer… and I am not trying to imply killer can't have bad games but there is less that can happen which isn't your own fault that can directly lose to your loss. if a survivor is trying way too hard to get a save or a sabo you just down them and move on but thats like a game defining failure for the other survivor players they had no part in…
I think the competitive nature which DBD has slowly eased further and further into feels way worse to play survivor in as opposed to playing killer in. It is much easier to pick up a killer and learn to play them than it is to learn to play survivor effectively against all killers. it's like a lot of the negatives that are naturally brought about by this game are piled on survivor disproportionately when compared to killer.Theres also just a lot more informative content for killer, I've noticed. Even as far as whats out there for survivor as far as community made content - and BHVR has a notoriously terrible tutorial, so thats a complete non-starter (props for the upcoming killer explanation changes that are a good start though, if an extremely late one) - it kind of begins and ends at looping, maaaybe a few map tutorials, and specific killer counterplay.
The ways in which survivor is/can be strong on the macro level just don't really get touched on and doesn't make for good content compared to the 300th 'lets hole the killer' clip video, and trying to learn that stuff by trial by fire can feel terrible. Heck, you don't even really see specialist content when it comes to builds or playstyles the way you get for killers. -
Its just not going to be a real Terrifier chapter to me unless we get Sienna running about pallet stunning killers in her valkyrie costume, especially given BHVR have had enough 'out there' accessories to do the wings justice on this one.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110084#Comment_4110084
Cool, and that means you can never progress on anything ever because ruin + this means that you are constantly loosing 5% gen progress every time they attack whether they were aiming at you or not and totem progress is constantly reset. Wow such a fun and interactive game. Constantly loosing because you literally can't win.
You don't lose 5% gen progress for letting go on a gen with ruin. Are you talking about the minimum progress bar? That shows for the same value any time a gen starts regressing in order to prevent gen tapping, it doesn't show how much a gen has regressed.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110032#Comment_4110032
But a single perk should not completely counter an entire killer, that is my point.
Which perk does this, exactly?
Niche interaction and you're unlikely to see it happen very often, but Fixated does kind of just downgrade Pinhead's M2 to the power level of a fly buzzing about your head annoying you.
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@Skillfulstone said:
I'm honestly a bit bummed about it because I usually don't really play to win and even regularly help Survivors get a few dumb achievements that are nearly impossible to get normally. I usually hooked everyone twice and then turned friendly unless I felt otherwise, am going for an achievement/challenge or the Survivors were a bully squad.
With this change, farming/not sweating & 8-hooking will rocket up the MMR, where I just won't have fun anymore since no one wants to chill at higher MMR and I ain't 8-hooking with 0 kills pros with Nemesis. This applies to every Killer Players that are chill, or at least wanted to be chill.
Side-note. Making it so kills & escape aren't the main components will lock team-slugging Killers (no hooks, absolutely miserable experience) with casual/new players since even if they bleed everyone out every games they won't go up the MMR ladder which means they will never end up against players that will be able to deal with it. Making the new player experience even worse than before.
Hopefully my worries end up being unfounded though, or maybe I'll just have to accept that the days of 8 hooks & 0 kills are over.
Completely reasonable worries on the slugging end, I'd rather good twins players or snowball heavy killers with Infectious Fright like Plague, Oni etc. not get put into seal clubber territory. As far as what they've said though, it will be comparative on the 'scoring' end to determine who gains MMR between the end tallies for each side, so if its a genuinely one sided match the slugging killer should still get MMR if I'm understanding correctly? I really wish they'd give us more details, because my perceptions are coloured pretty heavily by how other games work, and they could have a wildly different system than what I expect based on the little info slides they've put out.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
The pre-8.5 version was NOT 30% duration reduction, it was 30% increased recover rate. So the "effective duration reduction" back then was only around 23%.
Anyway, the recover rate increase is the more accurate way to put it and that's how they should keep it. If you list it in terms of a duration reduction, it makes the effect more confusing and harder to calculate when applied to other survivors in range since they aren't necessarily affected by Vigil for the entire duration of the status effect. I think this is more of an issue with the game not explaining well how dbd math works, not just for this perk but also for action speeds
I'll eat crow on that, my memory was wrong on the description from way back then, thank you for the correction.
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As a long time player, I think gens are kind of perfect, and the knock on effects of side objectives would be bad for the game overall. For one - and its kind of hard to talk about this without coming across as mean, so I'll preface this with I don't mean this in a sneering or disrespectful way, its a complicated game and no shame to these players - the more casual playerbase, not just the beginners, just outright struggle very hard with sidequests or the macro strategy elements of the existing objectives to begin with, to the point where killers that have them or who are countered more on that end have pretty inflated kill rates because of it. Adding yet another mandatory thing players have to learn on top of everything else seems like a bad idea.
I also don't think the game should be made any faster or have the strategy elements reduced, and it would be hard to justify any side objective that DOESN'T end up doing that because it would either have to account for the difference between efficient players and ones who aren't, even more than gens as average chase time would be more of a factor (a mess to balance)…or be an indirect nerf by forcing us to traverse the map more often with no difference in total objective time, making stealth a lot less reliable or fun as an option. Even if BHVR reworked the entire base game and perk options to account for this, theres nothing saying players wouldn't just get bored of theoretical side objectives anyways, or end up disliking them heavily for the above reasons. -
They've said thats actually what they'll be doing for the live release of CoS, after similar feedback.
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Might get yelled at for this, but in solo queue I will basically always dodge any lobby that either has 3 flashlights, or 2+ people not bringing any items at all. There might be a few exceptions now and then, but I basically always regret giving these lobbies a chance when I make the mistake of doing so.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109288#Comment_4109288
Yeah, but that's not it.
We didnt get meta shake ups for more than 4 years now, that's the problem.
Also devs said they are not gonna be changing things anymore, at least not often.
What are we supposed to do if there is nothing new to try? People don't care about p100 grinds anymore.They really do need to start changing perks much more often. While I agree with the philosophy about not doing major base mechanic changes during a character release, I have no idea why they've been so timid about doing even just small numbers adjustments over the years. Its not even consistent! They'll do things like the initial Fast Track rework or the completely unnecessary Thrill buffs a while back despite both being obviously really bad ideas, but they'll leave a whole slate of perks - even the ones with good ideas that just need some number tweaks - in the gutter for seemingly no reason.
Perk philosophy as a whole seems really inconsistent. I mean, as an obvious example for hex perks: Nothing But Misery needs SEVERAL full chases to even activate, and is locked to M1s for a bit of hinder against healthy survivors every now and then. Blood Favour is a significantly stronger effect, is active from the start allowing the killer to maintain the pressure they've gotten from it even after its cleansed, and doesn't care about what causes the damage, leading to being really overbearing with the stronger end of the roster. -
@Arcturus said:
Even though I hate hag she does need some kind of buff, but I think just slapping 4.6 on her probably isn't it. Even with her being 4.4, a hag that has her teleport bound to scroll wheel will teleport instantaneously, sometimes so fast that it's impossible to not get hit. As of now her only effective counterplay is to trigger her traps, not to manually wipe them away because it takes way too long unless you need to be stealthy. Personally I saw a suggestion before that Hag should be able to place down two different types of traps: her collision traps from her addon, and regular teleport traps. I think that would make Hag a bit more versatile. You could also increase her trap setting speed and her teleport range.
I hate to do this to all the hag players out there, but unless she's running Rusty Shackles you can actually counter her shockingly consistently by just running backwards into her traps and holding S. Unless she has coup or something, I'm fairly certain she still just straight up can't hit you with an instant lunge even with mousewheel bindings.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109226#Comment_4109226
Yeah, game changed a lot over the years.
Hiding used to be viable thing and the fun bringer actually, you would be so happy if killer was near you and your hiding spot worked out.
I don't blame your kids tho, because there is nothing to do in DBD but making prestiges, no ranked system or anything.
Different games offer you that - ranking systems actually give people reasons to grind.
I've got 22 p100 now and I don't care about getting more, that will just happen automatically.There is not much happening anymore aswell, because after krasue ptb devs decided not to change much anymore.
No perk shake ups, only new content every 3 months.Grimoire chapter might be the first one that I won't be purchasing for money, because it doesn't feel impactful or entertaining.
I just play different games more now - only about 40% of my gaming time is spent on DBD.Luckily we'll be getting a pretty big perk shakeup in the midchapter, over 40 perk changes most of which will be either reworks or straight buffs, and a fair few of them finally addressing diminishing returns. They said the only (very, very few) nerfs are going to be for overperforming perks that ignore the intent of DR, and I'm going to be honest I can't think of a single one besides Resurgence that fits that description? Like, there really aren't a lot of options for that on either side, but they made it sound like theres going to be more than just the one, so I'm left a bit baffled honestly. Still, mostly buffs and reworks to underperforming perks, which is pretty nice. Big hopes for Empathic Connection specifically, what the perk does is very appealing but the numbers just aren't quite there.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108908#Comment_4108908
See that's the issue, Lightborn needs a single perk to be useful, Vigil generally to most people requires an exhaustion also. Vigil didn't outright DENY killer debuffs, it just shortened them. I don't think arguing it's unhealthy is a reach at all. If you removed the Exhaustion component no one would use it.
The comparison is the line has been made, let's follow that logic instead of cherrypicking, we want more survivors playing right? Playing more altruistically, lightborn reverted could help with that, much like how people wanted vigil tuned down to make status effect builds more enticing.
Also this isn't me saying Lightborn is OP, I think it's just had it's time in the sun, it being nerfed would make Lightborn and rampage more enticing. It could even have synergy with them coz of the shorter blind.
Also just because you say Nurse and Blight aren't okay doesn't speak for others, I've seen it a few times on here where people defend them.I mean, I won't disbelieve you, its just kind of wild anyone would go out of their way to defend Mr. and Mrs. Perpetual S Tier given how long they've sat well above even the rest of the powerful end of the roster. Thank god BHVR at least had the sense to knock spirit down a peg from back when she was in the running as well, and haven't had any other candidates (looking at you, release ghoul) last longer than a month.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I'm gonna say the people saying it's okay are conditioned to think something like this is fine, similliar to how "Nurse is fine", or "blight was fine" etc.
It's not incredibly overpowered but it's really unhealthy for the game, if Vigil has that slapped on it for denying killers their mechanics, then Lightborn should be looked at also.
And for those parroting "I hate being blinded" add a dark mode which makes the screen go darker, problem solved. Lightborn will still be effective it just needs reverted to slowing it downThe difference is that Vigil isn't JUST an insurance perk, its also incredibly good on its own due to enabling some of the stronger survivor perks we have available. Lightborn relies on survivors bringing flashlights/bangs to get any value, which can be annoying yes, but it doesn't also enable regression perks on top of it or something. There aren't a slate of strong killer perks that blind the killer as a downside.
Also, who the heck is saying nurse or blight are fine? Blight is STILL overpowered even after the nerfs, and even a lot of killer-focused players are annoyed at BHVR just giving those two the mandate of heaven for their entire lifespan (excepting PTB blight).