AliceNull
AliceNull
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@random1543 said:
I do think its cringe if the killer is in chase and they break their necks at unhook notification tryna go back to hook, especially if its 4-5 gens.
I find that happening to commonly just because people want the tunnel, will even be left when I'm about to be downed sometimes because unhook notification has played. "PING go back to hook"
That situation is more common then people going back to hook because of no info imo, even in my soloq matches people will be waiting to unhook until killer takes chase and they still come back.I think it really depends on the situation with this, like if someone on a bad gen has run into a dead or unfavourable part of the map for (insert killer here) or are a much stronger looper than the rest of their team, and the hook is close enough by, you can really gain a LOT more map pressure by dropping chase and going after the notification. On the other hand…I've seen killers straight up throw games by world touring back to the hook just because hee hoo unhook noise, so its a pretty mixed bag. Especially people who give up all their map pressure to try and tunnel the DS/Dead Hard user, which is both bizarre and funny to me. Luckily, the upcoming addition of elusive after unhooks is going to be super helpful in at least soft countering the neck snappers!
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102465#Comment_4102465
Because like I said, he JUST got 2 pretty big nerfs and your reasoning for wanting more is "no one likes playing against him". Your not pointing out any particular flaw with the balance, just yelling NERF IT MORE.
Personally I think increasing the M1 recovery time after Kagune leap by a small/medium amount (Half a second to a second) would raise his skill floor and nerf the pallet munchers while letting good ghouls that can tech and cutoff still win the loops they've used their power well at.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102381#Comment_4102381
No, it's cuz of shortage of survivors, the queue times are instant for survivors as there's not enough, not many killers use play while you wait and the bp bonus is given to the side with lack of players (survivors have the bp bonus most of time)
Theres a big difference between "There aren't enough survivors for reasonable matchmaking" and "There are an influx of people playing killer at the moment for whatever reason (Jason)", while they have similar effects on QUEUE times, actual time to matchmake - which includes lobbies, not just queues - would be pretty different if the problem was survivors leaving in droves. At least in the EU servers, I have ZERO problems matchmaking from the survivor POV even though I play solo queue - if there were the kind of absence you were talking about, there would be friction finding people to fill out lobbies, and even with backfill multiple people leaving a lobby would cause things to stall significantly, which is not my experience at all. As it stands, the only thing extending my time to get into game from the moment I hit the queue button is people not readying up, the system just isn't having trouble finding survivor players.
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Realistically its just the consequence of it being an asym with a large and healthy playerbase, for the queues to be even killers need to be around 1/5th of the people matchmaking, ANY higher - even 1/4th - is going to be decently long queues. If you look at survivor queue times, they're instant, but lobby fill itself is instant as well even after players leave, so theres no shortage of survivor players queuing up for matches. A lot more people are willing to join the killer queues with the 'play while you wait' feature added to 1v4 as well, which drives up the times a bit ever since (not that its a bad feature, just that theres more people in the queue at a given moment, especially during daytime.).
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@Flopkween said:
One of the things I don't understand about the perk is that apparently it affected killer powers???? I'm curious when this started happening. Was there a patch or buff on the perk I wasn't aware of. Since when did it do that? And why not just nerf that aspect of the perkm
Its actually been this way basically forever, but after they buffed Vigil last year you just saw it a lot more. It used to be ~30% on an 8 meter radius, and was occasionally used but not nearly as popular. The big thing that caused people to start talking about it is when Clown and Freddy got their reworks. Freddy is genuinely a good killer…unless vigil is in the game, at which point he becomes absolute rubbish, and Clown had their lingering hinder reduced in favour of buffing yellow bottles, so the vigil reduction is a LOT more noticeable on him. It only effects hinders to my knowledge with powers, as the only exposed effect from powers right now is Ghostface, which works on his own timer rather than a recovery timer.
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What kind of a nonsense suggestion is this? You seriously want killers without map mobility to have 0 chance to reasonably defend gens late? 3 gens are one of the few ways killers actually have to influence macro play by default, and they still aren't bulletproof if survivors know what they're doing. Azarov's Resting Place aside (nightmare of map design tbh), they aren't even remotely an unbalanced feature of the game. If a killer hard focuses on forcing a 3 gen early, they give up a massive amount of hook pressure to do so unless survivors don't really know what they're doing.
A change like this would make survivors splitting up for gens literally unbeatable for the majority of the cast, and heavily nerf any killer that patrols gens as a primary strategy for defense. Killers with slower starts, that play defensively around gens without on-demand and frequent teleports, or that rely on set-up or deadzone creation get completely screwed over. You'd have to homogenize most of the cast into being much better at chasing/anti-looping and downing to even stand a chance at keeping up.
Making gens slower at the start wouldn't do anything to help this either, because the vast majority of killers aren't quickly lethal enough against competent survivors for that to actually matter, especially when all of the resources (pallets and window loops w/ breakable walls) are still available. Killers are already on a timer ticking down from the word go, they don't need their only solid form of endgame control taken away from them for no reason.
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Either both the killer and the final survivor are both wasting your time, or neither are. Its incredibly hypocritical to be angry at the killer for trying to complete their objective, while simultaneously saying its entirely fine for the final survivor to do everything they can to escape.
Neither of them are actually doing anything wrong.
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Spinning is only a problem when Auto Aim literally forces you to miss.
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She is actually getting nerfs for the project W patch!
Her most problematic addons (blink range addons) are getting nerfed so that the speed is the same as regular blinks. Considering they were her most popular choices by far, and made it much harder to play around her regardless of situation while ALSO giving her way more map traversal, I think its a really solid nerf.
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Another big issue is that a lot of what some people call "Tunnelling" or "Camping" includes things that are entirely normal gameplay that should in no way be punished or discouraged. Sometimes people just get caught multiple times after theres been a chance to reset. Sometimes they straight up heal under hook. People literally get fully healed, sit on a gen, and then complain about tunnelling if they get downed again.
Sometimes survivors either focus gens instead of getting an unhook, or get caught and downed going for a failed rescue attempt, and leave the killer with the option to force a hook stage or force the remaining survivors off gens with the threat.
There are already plenty of situations where overly altruistic survivors will show themselves at two different directions near a hook so that the moment a killer leaves the other gets the unhook and a reset. How do you implement baseline changes without that strategy being basically non-counterable for most of the cast? The killer isn't doing anything wrong by sticking near the hook under those conditions, why are you suggesting they be punished for it?
No basekit change is going to be able to simultaneously punish facecamping a full health state, or hardcore tunnelling the entire match without also overtly punishing killers for normal gameplay or being far too forgiving of mistakes by the survivors.
You !cannot! give survivors overly significant forcefields and "can't touch me" mechanics baseline without also completely changing the format of the entire game, killers are and have always been on a 4v1 clock ticking down the entire match. Harsh anti-"tunneling" features would just mean survivors coming off hook get a free perk slot every unhook and carte blanche to do objectives without threat.
And, we've already seen the massive tantrum people throw when gens get baseline touches, or strong survivor perks get nerfed. You'd see a similar hissy fit if massive changes also came with nerfs to survivor macro.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3137527#Comment_3137527
So says a person afraid of change.
I've seen it suggested that survivors should share hook states, and the killer cannot sacrifice a survivor until they have reached X number of hook states. This would put killers like Onryo and Myers in a unique position where they can bypass the hook counter to kill survivors, and open the door to new killer and/or add-on designs that are centered around pre-mature moris.
One can only speculate what this would mean for the health of the game (i.e. would it really fix tunneling?), but it definitely doesn't break the game--some killers already play with 12 hooks as their win condition.
This is just one suggestion. It of course has a few kinks to work out, but it suggests that something can be done without breaking the game.
How would you even implement this in a way that is remotely good for the game? How would killers with weaker starts or that rely on snowballing pressure by hooks instead of slugging even function when you have to bypass x amount of hooks to progress the gamestate against any given survivor?
The threat of being on death hook makes players have to be a lot more cautious. If anything, this change would !encourage! tunneling, because there would be literally zero real reward for actually taking chases against stronger loopers. It would also just outright be a massive nerf to a significant portion of the roster that don't have strong anti-loop because they need to make the most out of every down, or rely more on macro play.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3137449#Comment_3137449
This isn't a 'healthy way to implement any kind of meaningful change.'
Healthy would be redesigning the core mechanics that make camping & tunneling viable strategies in the first place.
First and foremost, DBD is a game that people play for their own entertainment.
It should be the goal of the developer to make the game entertaining for as long, and for as many people, as possible.
The game's entertainment currently hinges too much on goodwill, of which there is simply not enough to go around in the gaming community.
There is no way to make camping and tunneling "Not viable strategies" baseline without fundamentally changing every single aspect of the game, unless you want to break it in half.
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I don't understand why people are phrasing this as a 'band-aid fix' when the solution taking up a part of a survivors power budget is not only reasonable, but the only healthy way to implement any kind of meaningful changes to camping without severe abuse potential or needing additional buffs to killers to compensate.
It being a perk isn't some kind of lame half-measure, it being a perk is literally the POINT. Otherwise, the hook timer becomes ostensibly meaningless, and basic hook pressure loses most of its power (Not facecamping from full, but following scratchmarks or hooking someone in a solid position like a hill or 3 gen) because survivors would be able to run all of their normal perks !and! not have to fully commit to unhooks without risk of a hook-state loss.
I love Reassurance, and while it might need some very small tweaks to prevent weird SWF hostage taking, I think it should hit live otherwise mostly untouched. Its already very strong as a one or two of pick out of 4, taking up a perk slot. It would be far too strong as a basekit option for all 4.
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Im very glad they were changed, old keys were atrocious game design, but quite honestly I think they need some kind of baseline aura reading to compensate. Getting a green key out of a chest is entirely useless without any kind of addons, and I feel like where they are with a little bit of extra base function would be fairly healthy for the game.
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I think its kind of silly to say that the killer or the last survivor are doing anything wrong or underhanded in this situation. The killers job is to kill as many people as possible, the survivors job is to escape. The killer in this situation is trying to make sure the last survivor cannot escape, the last survivor is trying to hide long enough for a shot at hatch.
Either both players are doing something wrong/wasting time, or neither of them are. You aren't owed the killer giving the survivor more chance to escape, and you aren't owed the survivor just walking up and letting you hook them either.
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You are not supposed to go for solo unhooks when the killer is right there, period. This change means that any healthy survivor with deadhard can solo bomb a hook at any time against a killer without a very fast down/instadown, and get the rescue without the killer being able to recover any pressure.
Camaraderie needs a UI change to notify other survivors when someone is running it.
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Matchmaking incentives aren't particularly unusual for games with different roles, even ones where you're on the same team as eachother. Its not really a band-aid so much as it is a quality of life feature that aims to help queue times.
DBD has pretty much always had some form of imbalance in time to find a match depending on time of day, region, and role you were going for, so to me this is a very welcome quality of life feature. Besides, this literally doesn't prevent the devs from making any kind of balancing decisions in any way, it just gets people into matches faster.
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@Grum said:
Old Dead Hard wasn't overpowered, it was a lot of fun mindgaming back and forth how people were going to use it. I would rather go against a full team running old Dead Hard, than go against a team all running Sprint Burst, Lithe, and Balanced Landing. It's so utterly miserable having people zoom away at the start of every single chase.
I think it speaks to the state of how boring every other exhaustion perk is that I would rather continue bringing DH in its current barely functional state, than use any of them.
Old Dead Hard was absolutely overpowered. The "When are they going to use it" mindgame only actually exists !now!, because the function of denying an M1 can still be a pretty significant thing to have on your side, but using it without proper timing is actually dangerous now, where (barring DH into a wall) it was a free extension either way before.
The problem was the fact that the majority of the time, old DH was used to either cover serious mistakes in looping just by pressing E, or using it for distance when the killer had already committed a significant amount of time to the chase, leaving little to no room for actual mindgames or counterplay for the majority of killers in either situation. "I can't swing because they'll dead hard it and make it to the pallet/window, but if I don't swing right away they press E and make it to the pallet/window anyways because I can't lunge that far without coup" was the most common outcome of trying to bait it.
With Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced, and modern Dead Hard (as well as the others), theres actually counterplay to be had, because you can take stock of the situation and react differently. Killers can actually use their powers to deal with it depending on the circumstances, and each of these perks actually play pretty differently depending on the tile, requiring a lot more awareness to get use out of them properly.
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Don't tap gens mid chase if you need the health state, and look around the area a bit instead of hopping right on a gen against a stealth killer if you don't know where they are and haven't healed up yet. If you have time to reset, you aren't being tunneled, you don't get a "Nuh-uh you can't touch me" forcefield so you can do gens with impunity just for being unhooked.
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Saying that survivors got absolutely nothing is asinine when killing the Pain Res+Deadmans combo on its own was such a massively positive (And, in my opinion, necessary) change for survivors that its hard to overstate it. Ruin is effectively dead, which frequently caused more slowdown in the early game than even a fully stacked thana does now (and ruin didn't require multiple injures to get value out of it), and while ruin could be discovered early, it could just as easily be in some tucked away corner of the map, be recovered by undying, or be instantly replaced by pentimento.
The small endurance effect on unhook was not meant to be a replacement for actually running unhook perks, it was meant to provide a small window of protection that lets you get to nearby loops with a small speed boost, and most people are combining it with exhaustion perks to pretty good effect. As far as significant protection goes, being able to decide for yourself to have a longer term endurance effect with Off The Record is huge, because I don't need to care about my team having the right perks necessarily during unhooking outside of the endgame.
There were bad changes this patch (DS stun time nerf was outright a poor decision, as one example), and I would like to have more base kit information in solo queue, but calling it a disaster/some kind of irreparable failure that needs to be reverted immediately is completely ridiculous.
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I think the issue with DC penalties overall is that theres no nuance to the punishment. While it might work as a stopgap to solve the problem, it also unfairly punishes people who go against hackers (who very much do hold the game hostage) and people who have technical issues (something that unfortunately happens quite frequently.)
Instead of a blanket punishment, BHVR should implement a similar system to what plenty of online games do and either outright ban or queue together players who frequently DC or give up maliciously, for example if they have a pattern of DCing or throwing on first hook etc. as a consistent behaviour rather than people who might lose connection even partway through very successful matches.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097169#Comment_3097169
When did I say that I was one of those people who DC or suicide on first hook? I only do that when I don't have a choice.
I meant 'You' in a general sense, my bad for the misunderstanding; To clarify, 'you' refers to people who do that as a group, not accusing you specifically.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3096983#Comment_3096983
Right?? So much trash talk towards the people who DC or suicide on hook without even considering that they're people who have feelings as well. Does anyone even consider that they DC because they're just as frustrated with the game as you are, if not more so?
If you're so frustrated with the game that you're going to stop playing (DC or suicide on first hook, dying for hatch is another story) the moment something goes wrong, straight up stop queueing. Don't make your tilt other peoples problem. I have zero empathy for people who are going to babyrage and ruin their own teams game because they just don't want to bother.
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The difference between the two is .18 seconds. While that isn't insignificant, I don't feel like its such a major buff that they need to reduce the value if im being honest, if anything the bigger buff in my opinion is just having more endurance effects through mini BT and off the record allowing people to stack it faster.