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Definitely was needed, there should be more balance changes like this.
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Ghostie is D tier killer, Skull merchant (who can have perma undectable) is D tier, Wraith is B and quite balanced, Myers I think it's the strongest Stealth killer but he is often put in B and sometimes in A, so I would consider him B, Springtrap is pretty balanced.
Insidious might be too strong so it should probably take 2 seconds to stand for perma undetectable and give 4 seconds of it after starting moving and a 10 seconds cooldown after each use.
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Nemesis above Oni and Wesker and next to Henry (The First), twins and Jason is kinda crazy.
You are definitely underestimating Oni who's stronger than Ghoul.
Houndmaster and Nightmare should be at least above nemesis, C tier is definitely too low for them. I can tell you don't play them much.
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I would want more abandon options as well for killer but in the PTB they removed some of the survivor options so it will be more equal and I think that's fine.
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He can still camp basement and it's fun to do so, anti-camp doesn't nerf it much as you can just have some distance and when a survivor goes into the basement you go after them.
Frankil's Demise is kinda good with Weave Attunement so that's at least something.
Knock out is getting buffed in the new patch and that's pretty cool.
Barbeque & Chilli is always a good perk.
Also he got buffed not that long ago, basically a stronger version of his add-on became basekit.
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Not walking in chase for 3 seconds is so easy and worth to do so you get to use the exhaustion perk.
Why are we complaining about it after a very big nerf to it?
mind you- jason is 10x better than huntress
10x is definitely exaggerating, huntress is an old killer and needs buffs or possibly a rework, add-ons need to be reworked especially.
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@rmattamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118991#Comment_4118991
Thanks,
I’ve played killers like Wesker, Houndmaster and Artist before, and while I could use their powers, I never reached a point where they felt completely comfortable on controller. I always felt there was still a mechanical gap compared to mouse, especially when quick corrections or precise movement were needed.
That’s mainly why I’m asking about Dracula. I don’t mind practicing or building muscle memory at all — I’m just hoping that with enough time, his Hellfire, Wolf Pounce in particular and form switching can feel more natural and comfortable on controller than those killers did for me.
Np.
Maybe try changing your sensitivity for the pounces and the hellfire you definitely don't have to worry about, it's not different from PC.
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@Lavoonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118901#Comment_4118901
Is it though? Anti-tunnel is a major use for it sure, but if the killer hooks a survivor, hooks two other people, then hooks them again it'll work just as well. That's why it's more of just an anti hook perk.
Compare it to DS pre 4.6.0. It's useful against tunneling sure,but it could also be used as a shield to work on more dangerous gens in the killer's face. The killer doesn't need to be tunneling for it to provide a direct advantage against them, so was it really an anti-tunnel perk?
As a killer main, I would always rather to see ds + dh (assuming both are successfully used on me) then shoulder the burden being used if I am tunneling, best anti-tunneling perk by far.
I don't tunnel much nowadays cuz of the MMR reset so I often get survivors that shouldn't be queued against me.
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It's works fine on a controller, hellfire does not become any harder on a controller and you can use it well, the pounces can be a bit hard sometimes but you can still use it and get good at using it, Bat form has nothing that makes it harder to use compared to PC and you can use it in chase well.
It's only hard for me to transform into the correct form just because I play more on PC, but it will be easy to remember if you will play a lot of him on controller.
I am a decent Dracula player myself and I play sometimes on a controller.
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pallets are literally one of the only things survivors have to protect themselves in chase. We can’t fight the killer. We run, vault windows and use pallets.
You are kinda implying that survivors can't do anything about the killer and without this one perk is impossible to play the game, like if there's no counter play and survivors can't be skillful at looping.
doesn’t magically make someone good at looping either
It does and I am saying this as a killer main who has used it before, I am really bad at survivor and with windows I chase for quite a while most the time like I chased a decent Dracula for 4 gens just because I had WoO, my teammates went down very quickly against him. Don't say it's low MMR, it happened right after the MMR reset and I have lots of examples like this.
random teammate already dropped a pallet on the other side of the map?
There are 20 pallets on the map, should be enough.
And if simply seeing important objective/resource auras is considered too strong, then why do killers get to see generator auras by default? Should killers need to equip a perk just to see where their gens are too? Survivors being able to see the pallets they need to defend themselves somehow needs a perk AND now that perk apparently gives too much information, but killers knowing exactly where their objectives are from the beginning is fine?
This is a really bad comparison, the killers objective is to defend gens and to kill, there's 4 survivors that can find the gens and only 1 killer that needs to find the gens, there are many survivors that loop perfectly fine without the WoO and if you need to see the pallets so much then use Five moves ahead.
Let's say that killer shouldn't see gens, then survivors shouldn't see hooked or downed survivors, how is that any different?
Survivor already feels heavily killer-sided to a lot of us
Killer feels heavily survivor-sided (B tier killers and lower) to a lot of us, there's many players that fell killer anxiety, I am not saying that survivor side can't feel miserable but killer side is miserable as well.
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I personally think the haste is enough and I genuinely think it might be stronger than batteries included, making so it doesn't track a hooked survivor would be a good change honestly.
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New killers, new perks is probably everything you need to know.
Also you should know about diminishing returns.
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Despite being able to serve as one, it's not an anti-tunnel perk
It's literally is a anti-tunneling, that's the purpose of it.
I am pretty sure your version is literally just a stronger version of shoulder the burden.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118661#Comment_4118661
Reading the aura's of players is not at all the same thing as reading the auras of static objects.
being able to run directly at a survivor instead of having to find them first is absolutely making the game easier, how would it not?
Elusive is a response to the extreme excess of aura reading perks in the game, because killers are very rarely using anything but aura reading to find people anymore. that is why it's handholding, and the problem with that kind of handholding is that I agree, Elusive IS unhealthy, but it's become necessary, which is denying average killer players the ability to track survivors even if they aren't running aura reading. Elusive is also more prevalent because perks that solely deny aura reads are extremely bad. Distortion got obliterated, and there was nothing like it to take it's place.Reading the aura's of players is not at all the same thing as reading the auras of static objects.
Double standards...
being able to run directly at a survivor instead of having to find them first is absolutely making the game easier, how would it not?
being able to run to yellow aura and pressing space instead of having to use your brain and think where is the material is absolutely making the game easier, how would it not?
It does make the game easier but you still need to chase the survivor, seeing pallets and windows does actually help in chase which is the a much more important interaction than just finding the survivor, the killer still needs to chase.
If you think one is hand holding than don't tell me the other is not hand holding, it is just double standards at this point. Personally I don't care much about elusive.
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get the first regression for free
Not really for free, they still need to find the survivor, chase them and hook them (safely, flashlight saves or sabotaging can still happen) and the scourge hook RNG can be really bad sometimes.
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@cammoking123 said:
Also gotta love how they're indirectly admitting aura reading has become a vital crutch for many killer players. Now who's getting their hand held?
How is seeing survivors aura is getting handheld?, the game doesn't become easier in any way (less map knowledge is the only thing which is barely anything compared to some other things). Elusive doesn't remove just aura, basically everything that killer can track the survivors with like the breathing sound or the scratch marks, it does make it harder to find survivors and if the killer didn't find anyone then they are kinda forced to comeback to hook as they know there's 2 survivors there they can start chasing and interrupt healing instead of wasting time looking for someone they don't even know is close.
If you think that seeing survivors aura is "hand holding" then please tell me you think the same way about seeing aura of pallets and windows (WoO and Five moves ahead).
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You have learnt 0 counterplay, learn a few and then say your opinion.
There are survivors who enjoy playing against judgement, probably because they know how to play against it.
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@Mortimer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117898#Comment_4117898
"Seems alright to me".
Man you can't even unhook a teammate without getting double-tapped right in front of the hook, what are you talking about?Anti-camp exists, it probably will get nerfed by a bit anyway, but the just the vaulting speed is not a good enough bonus for the longer stun duration, it definitely needed a buff.
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That 5% haste is useless outside of chase
It's perma map mobility for killers who lacks it.
detect survivors
It's easy if you are good at the game, whispers still does that and even better with 24 meters radius, you know survivors are closer and 32 was too much honestly, 24 meters is still quite big.
Pls tell me how this buff makes your life "harder".
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For me, play while you wait worked in 2v8
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I don't think it does cuz it would just power creep batteries, I think it's already stronger than batteries included.
Combining them is not the best idea as diminishing returns exist.
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117482#Comment_4117482
I am also confused so it works like STBFL?
Ye, it makes the cooldown of basic attacks shorter
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I used it and I think yes, the wording is very confusing to other perks like save the best for last, they should totally change the wording.
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Windows is literally buffed technically as it gives 10% vaulting speed.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
If you haven’t noticed since last year the whiniest of voices (killer content creators) have gotten everything they wanted an more, despite the fact bhvr acknowledged survivors have received the short end of the stick and now here bhvr is again continuing to give in to these entitled streamers who want 4k’s handed to them on a silver platter.
These same killer content creators always talk about the things survivor had given to them as if the small pittance they receive isn’t compensation for the stuff killers get.
Bhvr its time to revert the syringe and styptic changes since we didn’t get any of the anti tunnel or anti slug stuff that promised. Why did killers get everything they were promised while everything survivors were promised got scrapped.
We are completely ignoring the killer nerfs ig and survivor buffs like pallet density.
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This is a absurd change, you have giga nerfed the perk for no reason.
Best survivor perk, it's so good that it's banned in comp dbd.
And what's so fun about it?
look at que times
There are multiple reasons for queue times to be long on killer side and they were always long.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117191#Comment_4117191
a balanced perk wouldn't be the most used perk in the game as there would be better perks to use.
There's two aspects to survivor perk balance:
1: How it stacks up against other survivor perks
2: How it stacks up against the killer
The second version should be the primary concern, but it seems that we're going by the first now.
Which means any survivor perk with a pickrate gets marched straight to the guillotine.
I think you are misunderstanding the point of my statement, I don't those aspects are what affects perk balance the most.
survivor perk with a pickrate gets marched straight to the guillotine.
High pick rate = strong perk, windows if opportunity has the highest pick rate and it's used in high MMR (so it's not just a perk for survivors to learn location of pallets and windows). Lithe will definitely won't get nerfed as it was literally a worst version of Sprint burst.
Bhvr is trying to shake up the meta and that's instantly a problem, strong killer perks are getting nerfed as well. Bhvr only recently started nerfing best survivor perks and people are already complaining (5 perks of bets survivor perks got changed) and there will be buffs to other perks.
Pain res has the highest pick rate on killer side as it's the strongest perk on the killer side and it did get nerfed multiple times but it's still used as it's the only remote slowdown basically, personally I think it's very overrated, you can fully counter it with repressed alliance now as well.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117188#Comment_4117188
The name Windows of opportunity is not meant to be literal. It’s a phrase.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5KC4V5M9KO93/img-5494.jpeg
Still can be taken literally.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117145#Comment_4117145
The WoO and Five moves ahead change is to make them have separate identity and not windows overpowering five moves ahead, now it will actually be better as pallets are more useful than windows. Both are meta perks (windows is the most used perk in the game) and if you are good enough you will not need to use those perks and know the locations of pallets and windows.
I am neither using WoO or Five Moves ahead. But nerfing them just shows that BHVR once again listens to the loud people. Because the Perks are no issue at all. A bad Survivor with WoO will still be bad, you can tell the difference between an actual capable Survivor and a yellow aura gamer pretty easy.
Yet Killers act as if WoO is making them lose games.
I will wait for the full list of Perks, but I sure hope there are some Aura and Slowdown Perks on that list.
A bad Survivor with WoO will still be bad
I am a bad survivor as I am a killer main and with windows of opportunity I can literally loop a lot of killers for 1 or 2 gens, sometimes even 3 (most of the time) and without it I am much worse, don't say it's low MMR, I literally looped for gens after the MMR reset and I played a decent amount of matches against decent killers with windows of opportunity. I have looped a Dracula for 4 gens while he does understand the power (I can tell that I am a better Dracula player but they are decently good), he is a very strong killer so I would say that WoO is a pretty strong perk.
WoO is just kinda brain-dead to use and quite strong, if it was bad then it wouldn't be most used perk and used in high MMR.
You can just learn the locations of the materials and not need to use the perk so I don't understand why you are complaining about it's nerf, it will still help to learn windows and FMA will help learn pallets for new players, seems fair to me.
Yet Killers act as if WoO is making them lose games.
I wouldn't say it's making me lose but it is brain-dead to use, kinda like you would say it's brain-dead to use lightborn, it makes the survivor better than they actually are and they should learn to be better (good for you that you don't use those perks).
Listening to loud people
There's no loud people, bhvr listens to both sides and does necessary changes to both sides (they can be bad sometimes but if they are doing it then there's probably a good reason for it). If you want to talk about the "loud people" then with common sense it's the survivors as there's literally more survivors then killers, it's literally impossible for killer mains to be louder. I think you are ignoring a lot of changes that nerf the killer side and buff survivors…
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StB is one of the strongest perks in the game especially in swf and very strong in comp, it's even banned.
It's Windows of opportunity, not pallets of opportunity. Like FMA and WoO need to have a separate identity and they are definitely not "balanced", a balanced perk wouldn't be the most used perk in the game as there would be better perks to use.
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It's Windows of opportunity, not pallets of opportunity
Still it needs to be separate from five moves ahead.
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117146#Comment_4117146
Decrease vault speed? Well that's surprising.
It's probably to not make rapid brutality + save the best for last + nothing but misery strong, so that's why it will remain 5%.
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117140#Comment_4117140
Fr that perk is just bad especially for a hex I hope they reduce the required number of hits from 8 to 4 and buff the hinder to 10%
They did reduce it to 4 hits, it was revealed in Japanese dbd, it will still be 5% but it will now also decrease the vault speed.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117138#Comment_4117138
Oh my sweet summer child… Do you really think that? Survivor Meta Perks will get a bunch of Nerfs with some bones thrown at them. Similar to nerfing SB, Vigil and Deli while buffing Adrenaline a bit (which you might not even activate).
WoO will also be nerfed by only showing Windows while Five Moves ahead will be nerfed by only showing Pallets. So if you want the old effect you have to dedicate half your Perk Build for that. And both Perks are completely fine.
But I guess since we are nerfing the most popular Survivor Perk (WoO), we will also nerf the most popular Killer Perk… right? right?? /s
There's probably till a lot of buffs on survivor side that we don't know yet and nerfs on killer side.
The WoO and Five moves ahead change is to make them have separate identity and not windows overpowering five moves ahead, now it will actually be better as pallets are more useful than windows. Both are meta perks (windows is the most used perk in the game) and if you are good enough you will not need to use those perks and know the locations of pallets and windows.
Also it's Windows of opportunity, not pallets of opportunity.
But I guess since we are nerfing the most popular Survivor Perk (WoO), we will also nerf the most popular Killer Perk… right? right?? /s
As I said, there will be more buffs for survivor perks and maybe they haven't revealed important nerfs for killer perks, you can fully counter pain res with repressed alliance btw and it's very overrated imo.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117113#Comment_4117113
I hope they change dissolution in this ptb otherwise this combo will be discusting and boring to go against.
I am pretty sure that dissolution does count as a pallet break so knock out would deactivate
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Surely unknown will get added at some point... He is beloved by the community, I am genuinely surprised why bhvr is not adding original killers to 2v8, there were 2 iterations with no new content, at least they could have added 1 simple original killer.
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I was playing with my friend and for me everything was fine but he had basically the same issue as you, it's so annoying.
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I personally want Unknown and houndmaster
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472207/2v8-2-killers-vs-1-survivor
Only fun for the killers but they risk losing gens quickly.
It can be fun for survivors if they just loop well (I have looped 2 killers before for like 20 seconds which should be a chase against 1 killer so that was quite fun).
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So in a game mode about 2 killers and 8 survivors, killers can't team up?, like you can still loop them for some time, from my experience I had looped 2 killers for 20 seconds and that's a lot of time for the team to do gens, if 2 killers are together that does mean less pressure around the map.
My main question is in a game mode where 2 killers work together to kill 8 survivors, they can't team up?
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She is nothing like nurse or blight, not even stronger than hillbilly or Dracula.
The bypassing hook perks goes both ways so she gets can't use the best killer perks like pain res or pop and bhvr added a system that makes the survivor spawn at least 32 meters away from the exile so the judgement can't tunnel them instantly so anti-tunneling perks are not needed as much.
She is also very hard to use and struggles a lot in chase.
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116113#Comment_4116113
You are a pure killer main I wont fall for your ragebait anymore man bypassing hook perks benefits survivor more than killer lmao
Ok, you are a pure survivor main and what?, like you are always complaining about killers...
Survivors have 16 perks in total and there's probably going to be only 1 or 2 hook related perks and others are meta perks as well which are not hook related, that's at least 8 perks being active.
Killer meta perks are slowdown and most of them require hooks so the killer that bypasses hook perks has no specifically meta slowdown perks like pop goes the weasel or pain res or turn back the clock.
I wont fall for your ragebait
I should honestly just stop falling for your ragebait.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116038#Comment_4116038
Nurse was a mistake as a whole. She had her place when the game launched because she was the bandaid fix for the broken infinites survivors had, as she could just ignore them altogether. However, she has been S tier since her launch and has never been less than 1st place. Even now, although she is not as incredibly broken as before, she is still much too powerful.
Just because a killer has only received nerfs does not mean they are no longer too strong, just like how just because Trapper or Ghost Face have received buff after buff does not mean they are no longer too weak.
Judgement will definitely not have the same "mistake'" as her
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@lovlor said:
Agreed.
The only killer bypass hook perk is Executioner. While getting caged can 100% be avoided if wanted by just not walk on the thing. Getting exiled takes no skill for the killer and is not avoidable.
Total nonsense for not receiving blind when charging, killer just shoot at some auras in the middle of the map because this beam is wall penetrable and has a 60 metres radius which basically covers the whole map. How about we let spirit not receive blind when phase walking?
Bypassing hook perks benefits survivor more than killer...
receiving blind when charging
How is the killer supposed to hit the survivor then, this would be actually pure rng. Genuinely what's so hard to understand about the power being really hard to use and that you can literally see where the killer is aiming as survivor.
basically covers the whole map.
It literally doesn't, you are just saying nonsense at this point.
How about we let spirit not receive blind when phase walking?
So you want to make her actually S tier where survivor can't see her but the killer can see the survivor, this would be more broken than blight or nurse.
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Dracula is quite fun for me.
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Judgment is peak gambleslop like pyramid head and henry, and is unfun to play against. It often feels like we're both guessing
I am a Henry main and you are just wrong, I am really good at predicting survivors and it's more skill than guessing and I have played against good survivors and bad survivors which a have a massive gap between their skill against Henry. Pyramid head has a warning as well as Henry so you can dodge after the M2 and you know when is the killer is using M2 and unable to M2.
This is also quite similar with judgement BUT you can literally see where the killer is aiming at so you literally just watch where to dodge.
Hook perks work on Exile - perk diversity
She does not need any nerfs and that perks don't work with exile goes both ways, most killer meta perks are hooking perks so this would buff judgement significantly... More than survivors.
she's almost full speed.
She is 4.4 and it's a big difference from 4.6 and she has 0 mobility.
Blind while charging M2 - make her predict, and make keeping distance/breaking LOS more effective
I hope I don't have to explain why this is a horrible change... Probably worst idea ever, her chasing power is bad mid range and requires a lot of skill.
LOS breaking isn't even effective because of aura perks
Most aura perks only show aura of survivors far away, I'm all ears is the only perk that gives aura during the chase (I think) and undying can occasionally help, you can still dodge without breaking LOS (with skill).
Judgment can instead apply mapwide pressure mid chase
It's so easy to dodge the snipes if you just pay attention (which you should while playing), an easy way to always dodge is whenever you hear the map wide sounds you can just run away a bit from the gen and then you will see the bean and you can continue doing the objective. Also, trying to hit a snipe during the chase just makes the chase longer.
Reduced range on power OR beam narrows at long range - make her map presence less oppressive
Definitely not needed.
Play as her and then say all of your issues (play her enough like 20 matches maybe and at least against some decent survivors).
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There's a lot of signs, @NeverSolus said a lot of them.
There's quite a lot of signs during the match as well like if there's constantly someone trying to get a flashlight safe (sometimes it's not a swf but normally it's obvious if they are in swf) or when you play ghostface or any stealth killer and survivors just know to run when they had no signs (someone in swf said the killer is going somewhere).
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Ig judgement is power creeping Pyramid head but she requires a decent amount of skill to hit the long ranged shots.
She is 4.4 while Pyramid head is 4.6 and her power is much worse in chase then the M2 of pyramid head, which is also much easier to use as well.
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A lot of people complain about it being 0.8 seconds (I personally think it's reasonable), so probably don't expect any more buffs (she doesn't need any buffs nor nerfs, idk why they buffed her curve but it's quite a skill related buff so I don't mind it but that's enough buffs imo)
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I really want to love Judgement but recent killer releases have been hella overtuned it feels like. She is really close to being a fun killer to face, but they are making the same mistakes they made with Nurse and are still making.
What's the mistake with nurse?, she had 5+ blinks at one point and only gets nerfed (her best add-on got recently nerfed thankfully).