tjt85
tjt85
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- tjt85
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I think I'll miss the phantom down voter most of all.
That one person who would come by every now and then to give everyone in a thread a down vote and then leave, regardless of what was said. It tickles me to no end to think someone would take time out of their day just for that.
I hope you're doing well out there, friend o7.
For real though, anyone who ever stopped by here to write something interesting, insightful, challenging, nuanced or funny - You're my favourite.
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The big ones for me are:
Slugging for the 4K to deny hatch spawning. You already won. Unless you're doing an adept just… Why? It's really not that serious.
Getting unhooked in the Killer's face (I better be about to go to second stage).
If you're gonna 99 the gate, you better be stood by it and be ready to open.
Chain blinding the Killer being a thing. Yes, Ace/Adam/Ada I get it. You're very good at playing Survivor and there's skill expression in being able to do so and all that, but it feels so bad when you're not a headphone gamer. Please just let me see where I'm going so I can play the damn game.
That one person who follows you around all game to trip all your traps when you play Trapper. Please, stop. No more. Playing Trapper is already hard enough.
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That would be crazy strong on an upstairs window with Balanced Landing. It's one of those mechanics that I think could be so busted, there might not be a way to make a balanced perk out of it (a bit like the Killer power to teleport Survivors to hooks).
But maybe it could be something like after fully repairing a generator, the next time you fast vault a window you block it for 2 seconds (or whatever), after which the perk deactivates. I dunno… Might be a fun but limited use meme perk?
I think Apocalyptic Ingenuity will be kinda decent now, with a chest looter build. It's still very much a meme perk but it'll have a place in at least one of my silly builds. So there's space in the game for things like that, I think.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120246#Comment_4120246
I get what you mean entirely, but I don't agree with their reasoning if that were the case. Think about it like this:
You buy a fishing rod, and it will have minor upkeep between bait/lures/line/hooks/etc. In return, the amount of return on investment you get is incomparible by comparison. It may require things like patience or commitment, but the theoretical return on investment is near limitless. Your material cost is a distant second to the pool of opportunity you have opened yourself up to.
This platform has been invaluable to them over the years in a variety of ways. The posters weren't paid for their insights, the theory crafters and design contributiors providing a vast pool of invaluable information that augmented concepts like playtesting without needing to spend a dime, hell, with people literally paying to do it. Nobody provided these things expecting any form of compensation, they were not on any payroll, they were simply fish in the sea. All they wanted was a hook with the bait of a better game on the line, and they gladly provided value in response.
For every penny saved by cutting out what is required to run a platform like this forum, the amount of free amateur labor in many facets, both creative and technical, created a massive RoI. That return diminished because of how things have been handled, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who considered grace to the ground level following the demands of those higher up and more detatched. At this point, even making an announcement like this is a clear sign that it's essentially irreversable: Every decision in this vein has done nothing but scare away more and more fish, reducing the potential gain of the investment.
If they wanted to roll something like this back, it would cost more than whatever they hope to gain by cutting such a cost. They've already told the community we're not wanted for any more than statistics to present to shareholders.
Totally agree. I can't say it any better than that, especially the part about the free labour.
I know the common criticism is that BHVR don't listen to us here but that just isn't true (obviously, they don't listen to everything we say, but they do listen more than they are often given credit for). In the relatively short time that I've been playing, I've seen many of the suggestions people have made here in this very forum put into the game to make it better for everyone.
This is also the only place that a regular, everyday DBD player without a platform can have a shot at actually being heard by the developers. I get the drive to "modernise", but the signal to noise ratio on all their other community platforms is not good. This is such a short-sighted move from them.
I guess the expansion of the content creator program is also another way they're looking at to reach out to the opinions of the wider community, but that's still going to be feedback filtered through one single person. There isn't anything that can replace a dedicated forum like this. Forums have been such a treasure trove of information in my life. Away from here, I've often found posts from 10-15 years ago that have helped me solve problems and repair things and none of that information has been behind a login wall. I know I'll sound dramatic saying so but this act is like setting fire to a library to me.
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It's been brutal for me so far. I don't bother with the Killer side of the mode anymore since my main got binned, but my escape rate is currently sitting at 25% (the lowest it's ever been for me).
I dread playing 2V8 again but I've got to roll up my sleeves and get back into it if I want to unlock those Alien charms. Wish me luck…
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Salt in the wound. More I hear and think about this forum, the angrier I get. It's such a huge ######### you to the community on here.
Some beancounter decides that the pitiful amount of money spent to keep the forum running can be snipped from the budget to save a few pennies. Cutting off the best and most valid portal for well formatted feedback. The forums (despite being somewhat whittled down by nitpicky overenthusiastic ban usage) are full of dedicated and passionate players most of whom, in their own way, are trying to supply feedback and suggestions to improve the game that they love.
And the alternatives? Screaming into the void on discord, watching whatever idea you've just posted get buried under 100 other messages of meaningless drivel in seconds. Or reddit a well documented cesspool of the worst the internet has to offer.
Way for bhvr to show the community how little they care about our opinions. I won't be spending a damn penny on auric cells from now on. And would encourage other players to do the same, probably a drop in the water as far as bhvrs profits are concerned. But it wouldn't take many players doing that to mean bhvr loses more money in sales than they save by killing our forum. And that would provide me with a smidgen of comfort.
@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
Honestly - the forums likely cost AT MOST $15 a month just to keep up. I have noticed that many of the mods here are also mods in the discord, reddit, etc - so its not like BHVR is having to hire anyone exclusively to monitor these forums.
It's not the hosting of the forums but the community managers to run it that is the cost of this place. Hosting the forums probably costs them peanuts. I think the move to these big tech platforms probably has a lot to do with the future because these platforms will be almost completely auto-moderated by AI in the not very distant future and they won't need to hire as many mods or community managers.
The forums barely function as they are, so they're never going to get "upgraded" with big tech AI moderation. You need real people to run this place. But who needs people when big tech has decided the future of the web belongs to the machines?
I remember them putting out a request for mods to join up not that long ago. I'd offer to volunteer if I felt it might save this place, even though I don't have a spotless record and I know I'd really hate being one. There was one forum member who put in an application to be a mod and they promptly got banned for something shortly afterwards. 🤣
I recently chose not to spent another penny on this game as well. Even before all this, so many of the recent changes stopped me wanting to play and there's also the worry that I won't even be able to pretty soon with the upcoming graphical update. I don't feel like supporting BHVR at the moment.
As for the forums not being archived, I think that's a huge loss to the community. And if I do happen to join up to one of their future official community platforms, I won't be posting nearly as much as I have done in the past, knowing how little our contributions on the forum mean to BHVR.
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Good work so far! I was actually able to use the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine to preserve some threads I wanted to keep for posterity (I'm on desktop PC). Somebody has already saved the official announcement of the closure of the forums over there:
Wayback Machine link to forums closure announcement
It only saved the first page, though. So multiple pages will have to be saved individually if anyone wants to back up the entire discussion. I think it would be very ironic and funny if that was all that we had left preserved of the forums on the web when they're finally gone.
I've also saved a couple of lore build threads that I posted in and wanted to bookmark for myself (because I'm forgetful and I might want to be reminded of them some day). I like making builds a lot in this game:
I would like to hear your Lore-based Builds (Survivor OR Killer)
Anyone have some fun Legion builds?
^As you see, some images didn't properly save, so if there are lots of large images on the page they sadly won't all be saved. Only one snapshot of a page can be made per hour.
You can also use urlclean.com to clean the URL slugs of anything unnecessary in the address to make for a better archived page. And this is the link you need to save a page to the wayback machine:
Anyone can do this, but it is very time consuming and it would obviously be an impossibly huge undertaking to preserve absolutely everything. And it will only be preserved for as long as the Internet Archive still exists. But still better than nothing, I guess?
Anyway, if you guys have any sentimental discussion threads that you want to save for future generations of DBD players to read, this is how you can do it.
It's so annoying that we're going to be losing so much social history of the game in this way, but there's not much that can be done about it tbh. At times like this I'm reminded of how ephemeral the web really is. Nothing lasts forever, not even the legendary original Space Jam website made it past 2021.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120068#Comment_4120068
it felt like a lot of the moderation was vibes based which makes it hard for consistency in regulation. you gotta hope you get the "right" mod. I got hit for literally just saying the new Zanshin was "lazy and half baked". I'm sorry but that kind of moderation guarantees there will be no longer term community. Shame because things seemed less stifling lately, as new additions like Balrog were pretty chill.
They probably don't want to have to play whack-a-mole across every community platform that they run, which I guess is fair enough. I bet the moderation team have their hands full over on Discord, even though I think we're probably the least unruly bunch.
Getting a warning or a ban seemed like bad luck most of the time, anyway. I probably deserved a couple more warnings than the one that I got.
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Given that the original announcement has 106 down votes so far, I think they already know how most of us feel about the forums closing. But have my up vote, anyway ☝️
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120014#Comment_4120014
Ill admit after myers/freddy/ghostface/leatherface/pig all not having much for voiceacting, chuck/tiffany having their original voice actors to come and do all the lines was mind blowing and brought so much more life to the characters in the game 👌
I've also played a decent amount of legion being a fan of the silent hill Lost Mascot suits. I just tend to avoid playing too much of the killers that players tend to openly dislike, otherwise I would be playing a ton of Rize being shes my favorite character from tokyo ghoul lol
Honestly, I don't worry too much about being hated for my choice of Killer. There's almost always going to be somebody in your lobby that isn't a fan whoever you choose to play. And anyway, I did ready up to play the bad guy after all!
So go play some Rize games. As long as you're not going out of your way to give anyone a bad time, I think it's all good.
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@Ryuhi said:
For any of the old heads who see this, regardless of how we may have gotten along over the years, your dedication is appreciated. If not by BHVR, than it should be by each other. Regardless of blatant or unintentional biases, there have been a multitude of perspectives that provided a wide range of insights, criticisms, over/under sights, and legitimately valuable feedback. Everyone knows that individual communities get swarmed with biases to the point of becoming echo chambers, but having a forum that worked in the most literal interpretation of the word for so long is something that this game sorely needed and benefited from.
For anyone who put more thought into their perspectives than emotion, more intention than reaction, more care than frustration, regardless of right or wrong, your input to the forums was a positive contribution. When you think about the fact that this post doesn't necessary address the people who wear their insights on their sleeves, keep in mind that will be the future of feedback for the game going forward. For all the "X platform is Y biased," that will be their only avenues of feedback going forward. Whether that means they'll be able to better disseminate feedback or get lost in a contradictory sea of warring factions, only time will tell. But the names that have been here for the majority of the game's lifespan, genuinely wanting the game to be a better experience despite personal gain, you're all appreciated. If not by the developers, than by the people who shared the same goal. If I can't speak for everyone in that camp, I can at least speak for myself.
Thanks for the discussion, and the exchange of ideas.
I second all of this. I don't look forward to the game being balanced by the loudest voices on all of those other platforms, where engagement farming seems to be the primary motivation for most of the users over there. We all have our biases, but the forums still felt like the best place to come for a reasoned, nuanced debate and the place to read the most considered takes on the game. That kind of discussion just doesn't exist elsewhere on the web. Discord is a gated community and (from what this old timer understands) more like an ephemeral chat room than a public discussion forum and reddit is just 90% memes and videos, with the other 10% being players gloating/commiserating over whatever it was BHVR nerfed this week. Neither platform will be a good substitute for what the forums currently offer. I really hope they reconsider but the decision is probably final 😔
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As my only P100, Legion is obviously up there. The most fun I ever had playing DBD was the handful of trials I got to play as 2V8 Legion, especially in their first iteration. Send a few down votes my way for old times sake for saying so, but they were the ultimate adrenaline rush in that mode and nothing else really comes close. I'll never forgive BHVR for removing them.
Other than Legion, I've got soft spots for Dwight (who was my first main), pre-rework Myers (RIP) and of course Meg, who has been my main for nearly half the total hours that I've put into playing this game.
Other honorable mentions: Chucky/Tiffany (for favourite voice acting), Feng (for favourite cosmetic with her bunny hoodie), Xeno (favourite to verse because I love the Alien films and enjoy the turret mechanic), Trickster (favourite overall sound design) and Clown (for favourite horror design. He's truly disgusting and makes my skin crawl).
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My sentiments exactly. I too have enjoyed discussing the game and reading everyone's opinions over the past 3 years that I've been here - even the ones that I vehemently disagreed with.
It was just nice to have somewhere to come and talk about this silly little horror game that had become an obsession to me. You guys don't know me from Adam and I'm just a name on a screen, but I've still felt a kind of weird kinship with everyone here over our shared love of the game. It doesn't matter that it's all coming to an end, not really. It's just a forum for a video game at the end of the day and life will go on.
But visiting the fog will feel just a little bit lonelier in the future knowing I won't have somewhere to come and shoot the breeze, share stories of the fog or discuss the latest happenings in the Entity's realm. I feel ridiculous getting a bit sentimental over this, but here we are…
To all you UK & Europe servants of the Entity, perhaps I'll see some of you in the fog one day. To everyone else, I hope you have many 5 gen chases and 4Ks ahead of you 🖖
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Damn, BHVR are really putting in the hard yards to make the 10th anniversary year one for me to forget!
But I can't say I didn't see this coming. Between bringing the ban hammer down on half of the most active forum members and adding the down vote button so that any discussions voicing unpopular opinions sink like a lead balloon, is it really any wonder why nobody bothers coming here these days?
Taking the forums out back less than a month on from the big 10th anniversary love-in is certainly… A choice. Just in time for Halloween as well, which is basically like Christmas day to horror fans. Honestly, I can't think of a more BHVR way for them to have Killed off the forums.
Not a great look, is it? It doesn't show much in the way of appreciation for some of your most passionate players.
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Hell. No.
The Steam forums are almost as dead as this place and they're a shadow of the official forums at the best of times. As for Discord, I'm sure the kids love it but I joined up some time last year for a giveaway and the experience made me feel about a 1000 years old.
https://youtu.be/NChPewIs0js?si=2qWUpLsNhyx-svAt^Genuine footage of me ageing in real time on the DBD Discord server.
I did try to join reddit, but there's no way I was gonna wait for my account to be 3 months old before I would even be allowed to post in the subreddit. Vestiges of the old web like this forum are where I belong and nowhere else. I just want the Internet to die at this point. I honestly can't wait for it to be overrun by AI bots chatting to each other for eternity.
I might try to join the Discord again if I remember to follow the link, but once this place is gone, the only place you'll probably find me is the Fog✌️
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@Dkiddeh said:
How great it would be if a Dev could notify us switch 2 (and switch 1) users, if the game will remain playable for the forseeable future.. or if they are planning to abandon the switch category all together -.- But they rather keep people in the dark for over a year.. Sure, they mentioned it's not in the planning, to make a switch 2 friendly update, but knowing if the game will be playable alltogether would be great, before people spend money for just 4 months worth for example.. Very Very bad, by the Dev's end of this game.
After the Anniversary love-in stream, BHVR said there would be a follow up community stream with more details on the future of the game but so far we've had nothing. If the game won't be supported on older hardware in the near future, the right thing to do would be to let players know that well in advance. Doing so would obviously have a knock on impact on revenues as players stop spending on a game they won't be able to play soon, but it would still be the right thing to do. DBD is currently one of the most undemanding multiplayer games out there able to run on Switch 1 and almost any potato PC. I have it running just fine on a 2013 office PC I put together with salvaged parts and a 2017 workstation graphics card. I doubt that will still be true when the big update comes along in 2027.
When Star Wars: Hunters got the chop, I uninstalled the game straight away because I didn't see the point in investing my time in a soon to be dead game. Obviously, it's a little different with DBD as it will continue on and players will at least keep some of their old content on a new platform (though anything bought in Nintendo's eShop doesn't transfer over, unfortunately). But still, there are some very dedicated Switch gamers with thousands of hours in this game and they all deserve to know what the future holds for them.
Maybe they could at least let us play a version of the game that's been put into maintenance mode, like how Illfonic have done with Ghostbusters: Spirits Unleashed. But I'm not sure how that could be done with cross-progression being a thing now.
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Yeah, Nintendo stopped making 3DS consoles in 2020 but they still supported the system with online features and an eShop for another 3-4 years after that. Switch 1 support from Nintendo isn't going anywhere for a while just yet.
The real question is whether or not the game has a future on Nintendo platforms at all beyond the upcoming graphical upgrade next year. I can't imagine they'd want to walk away from an installed player base of millions but then again BHVR also say they're not making a Switch 2 version, so who knows? We've been left in the dark. The Switch 2 has the power to run some impressive titles, but I do feel like Switch 1 support will probably be dropped within a year (not a problem for you if you already own a Switch 2).
I think you would still get some enjoyment out of the game if you bought it on sale and only got a year or so of play out of the game. But I've personally decided against spending any more money until I'm sure I'll still be able to play DBD in the long term past 2027.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118630#Comment_4118630
I believe that even if the killer is Undetectable, you will still receive the notification, you just won't get aura reading. It's almost better info that way, as you can deduce that they are Undetectable nearby and possibly coming at you. I do believe that the cooldown could afford to be much lower though.
I maybe didn't explain it well before but yeah, that's what I was getting at. It would have pretty much the same functionality as the current version against stealth Killers, except now with double the cooldown time (so that's a nerf, imo).
I get the audio cue many times in a trial. Most of the time it's a false alert and the Killer isn't actually coming my way at all, so it kind of needs to have a shortish cooldown (or slightly shorter range) or else it won't be able to warn me when they actually do come my way.
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Premonition is a perk I've been using a fair amount recently and I was quite excited to read about the buff. But the 60 second cooldown does seem a bit long for how often it currently triggers in a trial, which risks making it less useful than the current version (even with the extra aura reading) because it may be in cooldown for when you really need it. And if it doesn't reveal the aura of undetectable Killers (I assume it doesn't), it's actually a nerf to the perk because it will now trigger less often.
So I'm not sure how I feel about the "improved" version. I would prefer it to stay as it was or for the cooldown to be 45 seconds (which seems like a fair compromise, as aura reading is a more powerful effect against most of the Killer roster).
Or if we could keep the 30 second cooldown for the audio cue and have the secondary aura read effect remain at 60 seconds, that would be fine too (perhaps the aura element could be token based so that players know which part of the perk is active. That said, maybe that would complicate what's meant to be a simple perk with a simple effect too much).
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I used this perk a lot in my early days to crawl my way out of the deepest depths of SoloQ hell (this was before I came to the conclusion that the MMR system does next to nothing, anyway). I haven't used it for a very long time now, but it finished with a 50% escape rate for me, so I can see why it's getting some changes.
But you are right, this perk will not be worth running after the nerfs unless you are playing with friends and you make the end game often. I don't know why we're reworking a perk that was mostly beneficial to SoloQ players to buff SWF instead, when SWF is the source of a lot of the balance issues in DBD. But then I don't understand a lot of the choices that BHVR are making at the moment.
I get that they want to encourage teamwork and move away from SoloQ players playing mostly for themselves, but I've said this before and I'll say it again, you don't need any perks in order to play selfishly. And until it feels more rewarding to play for the team, I don't see "selfish" players changing the way they play all that much.
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@Massquwatt said:
Looking over the arguments being made here and I don't know about you guys but if the nerfing of WoO means that the looping ability of survivor players goes down collectively because of it…I think it's time we look at other ways at trying to improve the looping skill of players rather than letting everyone's skill be dictated by a singular perk. cough improved tutorials cough.
I think if BHVR consider looping to be a fundamental Survivor skill, then they absolutely will have to put the resources towards making a proper in-depth looping tutorial soon. I personally don't see looping that way, it's more an intermediate to advanced Survivor skill to me. And as a former Sprint Burst away and hope for the best type Survivor (now a stay under the radar and evade the Killer type Survivor), I think there are still ways to play the role that don't involve being able to loop effectively. I've wasted a ton of Killer time by sending them to investigate my pebbles or by walking away from a gen after an early warning from Premonition. It's just that these play styles are much less effective at "high MMR" where Killers are more likely to be running aura spam builds and targeting the weak links for an early 3V1.
Any perk build can be considered a crutch, I guess, if it helps you to win games you wouldn't have won otherwise (in which case, almost every decent perk in the game is a crutch perk). But then if we're nerfing things because we're worried players are reaching a match-making rank they don't belong in by hitting strong perks like WoO, why are we doing all this after we've just had a rank reset? Surely you would nerf these "crutch" perks before pulling the trigger on resetting everyone's MMR, so we can all reach our proper level? That makes no sense to me.
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I hate to see another popular and decent Survivor perk gutted so soon after SB and Vigil (even if I didn't actually use this one for being so immersion breaking). It's especially annoying to see some auto pilot aura Killer perks get buffs in the very same patch but whatever… That's just another classic BHVR decision for you.
But I don't hear many people talking about the Dark Sense buffs. They're giving it a mini WoO effect, but this time as a totally free general perk! It'll still have the problem of being accidentally triggered before you really need it, but will still be a pretty good beginner alternative to the current WoO, imo.
I'm nearly 2000 hours deep in the weeds of this game but I'll probably be using some of the reworked "beginner" focused perks myself to finally learn the game. Because with these perks I can actually learn by playing and not by watching some boring YouTube tutorial and hoping some of it stay in the memory. I think that's kind of huge.
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I was confused by this as well. What is the difference and why does it matter?
All I know is, it's not going to make any difference to me if "Surrender" or "Abandon" pops up in the corner of my screen. I'm still getting out of there if the game is obviously lost or I'm not having a good time. So I'm not sure why the distinction between the two situations really matters. In a situation like that, I just want to be in my next game as quickly as possible.
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For me it's mainly a lack of variety that's a core problem. But it's kind of a catch 22 situation as well. A lack of variety exacerbates the problem of putting in Killers that are not universally loved (like Legion), but then also having to play it safe and drip feed new Killers that would be acceptable to a majority means variety never really improves and so the mode quickly begins to feel stale. I've personally had at least one Killer in the mode that I don't enjoy facing since iteration 2 (The Spirit) and 3 (Wesker) and it does suck a bit having much increased odds of facing a Killer you don't like more often than you normally would in 1V4. I guarantee whatever Killer BHVR add to 2V8 next, they will be hated by at least some of the players and their addition will make less players want to queue up for Survivor.
That said, I think the vast majority of players still playing 2V8 are newer players who aren't jaded by the experience of playing against 5 shadow Weskers in a row. So this might not really be a problem for mode's popularity.
On a personal note, I've had less desire to play since they took my main away from the mode (Killer is where the real fun is to be had in 2V8).
@Madjura said:
They are doing it again. There's a quest to use 10 tonics. Survivors you unhook don't let you heal them and instead run off in an attempt to find a heal tonic so they can progress the FOMO battlepass. Why would you be interested in playing a game mode where your teammates are actively rewarded by the developers to not help your team at all?
^Also, This! I want those Alien charms, but I'm not willing to grind out 10-20 Survivor trials just to complete a tedious fetch quest. I haven't played since the last quest involving Invoking Salts made me walk away from the game and I'm not feeling encouraged to go back to suffer through more of the same. I want to play the mode because I feel like playing it, not because I feel I have to to unlock a FOMO reward.
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I don't mind the mechanic itself, though I probably wouldn't usually bother with it.
But what really gets my goat is BHVR tying it to completing a stupidly long fetch quest that you need to finish to unlock the fomo rewards. I've just spent an hour playing against the sweatiest KWFs imaginable failing to get more than one of those stupid salt circles placed down. I've spent nearly entire trials opening 6-10 chests and not found a single Invoking Salt. It doesn't help that some games I'm spawning next to the killer and have no time to go looking for chests, only to be rescued and find myself immediately in chase again because Killers have learned the cage spawn locations.
I've never been so frustrated playing this game and if there are any more quests involving these stupid things, I'm going to forget about unlocking those charms because it's just not worth my sanity (being an Alien fan, I was really looking forward to this 2V8 too).
It's been a miserable experience altogether so far.
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For me, it would be Pig, Knight and Dredge. Having another Killer able to chase you off Jigsaw boxes would get old fast. I personally like Neme's zombies, but most players don't enjoyed being chased by NPCs and the Knight's guards would just be that but even more annoying. Dredge's nightfall would charge too fast and turn a trial into Lights Out but with an extra Killer on the map (and most players hated Lights Out).
All that said, it's really not that serious. And I'm all for chaos, so I would add pretty much any Killer that could be made to function. I disagree with gate keeping the mode to only a very limited set of survivor approved Killers. It was the worst decision BHVR made for 2V8, imo. They've basically killed its potential in the long term to be a permanent game mode someday.
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I think BHVR are just adding licensed Killers or "safe" original Killers that the Survivor player base at least tolerates going up against. They don't want a repeat of the Legion incident.
Outside of a few remaining Killers (and maybe some future Killers not yet in the game), I think we've seen every Killer they could reasonably add without getting push back from the section of the player base that likes to complain about every little thing.
If you look at the pattern so far, licensed killers (or Killers with licensed skins that they can theme an event around) have more chance than unlicensed ones, because they make BHVR and their partners more money. So we'll probably see Stranger Things and D&D at some point, I would think. Maybe Jason and Springtrap, too. Unknown will probably be added as well. Not sure if Artist is popular enough but I think there's a chance. But I don't see any others they could add without complaints.
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They could try adding MMR to 1V4, too. If it barely works in the regular queue, I don't see why anyone should expect it to work for a mode that needs twice as many players. What you're asking for just isn't possible.
2V8 is basically the SoloQ experience on steroids. You have to go into it focusing on your own fun and just expecting to die in every game. You've got to embrace the chaos and leave your competitive side at the door. I've played about 10 games so far and only got 2 hatch escapes and 1 gate escape. I don't care what anyone says, it's not a Survivor-sided mode in my experience (maybe on paper, but definitely not in practice).
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If not today, then I think that's probably right. We usually get our update after the second hotfix patch drops, after which we can join back in with the rest of the player base.
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Killers won't suddenly be playing more Trapper grade characters now that SB has been nuked, just like Survivors won't be running crappy perks Cut Loose or Visionary. Players that want to win will always gravitate to the strongest stuff in the game. Now that SB is in the gutter, that's probably Lithe or Balanced Landing.
All the SB nerf did imo, was to make the perk substantially worse for most Survivors for no benefit to Killer at all. Most M1 Killers are still gonna be stuck in low MMR where their baby Meg will use SB to run into a dead zone and die immediately, anyway.
Oh well, at least we've still got on demand old school SB in 2V8. I'll be playing less Scout and more Escapist this time around just to get that old SB experience again.
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Most of the ones I really hated got changes (Franklin's, Knock Out and Sloppy Butcher), so there aren't really many left in isolation that I hate anymore. Just the ones that are a middle finger to SoloQ like Hex: The Third Seal and No Quarter. I guess the ones that buff SWF would be annoying too if I ever saw them in my Killer games (things like We're Gonna Live Forever, Background Player and Shoulder The Burden), but I don't really.
I don't usually see any of these perks in most of my games, so I can't say if they desperately need changes.
I also kinda hate Hex perks in general, just because of their inconsistency and the play styles and perk combos that revolve around defending them. And also because I feel like I have the worst luck with them since they tend to stay up all game if I'm playing Survivor or get cleansed immediately whenever I'm playing Killer. I wonder if Killer players would trade being able to see their hex totems for much better hidden spawn locations.
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One of the better recent original chapters imo, but that's mostly down to the unique and fun to verse Killer. Judgement can be a little tedious to face if they have Ruin/Undying and excessive aura reading, but at least they are a bit different and I enjoy going up against them. But I don't care for the new Survivor or her perks (only seen her twice and I've never seen her perks, so I don't think I'm alone in this).
I'm not sold on the idea of getting the community involved in the design, tbh. That aspect felt like kind of a fake gimmick to me, as if the chapter would have turned out pretty much the same way even if we'd had nothing to do with it. So I'm content for BHVR to do whatever they want in future and to leave us out of it. All it did was cause division in the player base.
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I've only played Survivor for the most part and I'd say it's been a mixed bag so far. I think the system is still trying to place everyone. It feels a bit more wild because you can go from a competent Killer that destroys your entire team to a Killer in the next game that doesn't seem to know what they're doing. That said, I'm enjoying playing at the moment and my games have felt not dissimilar to event match-making. It's not the same experience I had when I first started playing and it felt a real struggle to progress because my teammates were less active. With the new system, it's not taken long at all to get decent, active teammates.
I was most excited for the MMR reset because it would mean I could play on the Switch again as I have more content on the platform (my biggest regret to linking cross progression was not being able to compete over there at my PC MMR with the Switch's technical shortcomings). I've been able to mess about with goofy builds and still be in with a chance of escaping and doing well without being instantly tunnelled out. It helps that we're in our own little soft play area with cross play being off at the moment as well.
I think the main improvement for Survivor is psychological. I don't feel so bad about being the only Survivor to die in a trial, since I have the knowledge that it doesn't automatically mean I'm going to go down in MMR. And (I hope) there's now more of a point to play on in obviously lost games than before.
But I still don't think the system does all that much. I'm not sure it was worth bothering with all this, as trials feel more or less like before to the point that I'm not entirely convinced there even was a full MMR reset. Perhaps we need to give it a month before we see any real differences.
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@MDRSan said:
I personally only ever play solo queue so that's where my feedback is coming from. I play about half and half killer and survivor but lately have been leaning survivor because of queue times.
The sort of commands and callouts that exist on a chat wheel are really not going to tilt game balance in any sort of direction. This isn't going to be bridging any sort of SWF - Solo Queue gap if that's what people are thinking.
SWFs with comms can call out where the killer is chasing them, not just THAT the killer is chasing them (something the HUD already says anyway).
Asking for a heal doesn't mean anything if I don't know where you are and asking for a heal right in front of me can already be accomplished by being wounded and tbagging at me a couple of times. Want to thank me? Tbag. Apologize for blowing a skill check? Tbag. It's a multi-functional, universal emote.
I'm not even sure what to do with things like 'Help!'. Help with what? Where are you?
Things like 'Split Up!' or 'Repair' are going to have me rolling my eyes and wondering why some random I'm never going to see again thinks they're the boss of me.
'Going for Unhook' might be handy if someone isn't running kindred.
Personally, the only things I wish I could communicate to teammates that I can't already that are simple(ish) enough for a chat wheel are things like 'Killer is camping and I won't be upset if you don't bother trying to unhook me'.
This sums up a lot of my feelings as well. If they really want to close the gap between SoloQ and SWF, a system like this ideally needs a way to help you find teammates (or for you to tell your teammates exactly where you are). SoloQ players have some means of doing this already with various aura perks but they have to use at least 1 perk slot on a fraction of the communication power that a SWFs has, since they essentially get every teammate/info Survivor aura perk for free. That's the real power of a SWF and unless that is addressed, SoloQ will keep losing out due to lack of info on where their team is. I think maybe giving SoloQ an extra 5th perk slot solely for aura perks might be a way to close the information gap at least a little (and not totally ruin the game in the effort).
I've said many times, I don't think this is a healthy direction for the game but if we're gonna be heading this way, we should at least go all in on it. This feels more like throwing SoloQ a bone than genuinely bringing us up to par with SWFs. Though it could just be a first step of many that BHVR have planned, too.
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@HexPectoPatronum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113012#Comment_4113012
You're confusing the map showcase with 2v8, Chaos Shuffle etc. Queuing into the map showcase is like playing with crossplay off. There is hardly someone playing.
Are you so sure about that? I guess it's possible that not many people would play it, but if that's the case, then why bother with it anyway? Suggests there's not much call for map show cases among the wider player base.
The only time I've jumped into a map show case is when there's been a new map and I don't recall having to wait a long time to get into a game, so there must be a decent number of players over there. Might be different for new maps, though. But even with that, I still rather they just boosted the new map for the regular queue like they used to do.
I'm not an achievement hunter, but I've still managed to get most of the map related ones just through normal play (including recently getting the main building gen on the Walking Dead map completed and escaping). The only one I haven't completed yet is the RPD one, but I've got decent progress on it so I'll get that eventually. It's pure luck with what map you get, so I do sympathise a little, but I also think achievements are not meant to be easy to get and some should take a while to complete.
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I have to be honest, I fully expected this chapter to be a total dud but I really like versing this Killer. And I say that as someone who hasn't enjoyed going up against a lot of the more recent Killers.
I'm not going to save up my well earned shards on getting them for myself though, because I just know their power isn't gonna be for me and that's OK. I'm glad to hear enough people are enjoying them that they (hopefully) won't become extinct when the chapter isn't so fresh.
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Personally, I really dislike the map showcases. They're not a good enough reason to split the queues and they make the match-making for the regular mode much, much worse imo.
I would honestly rather they brought back the old map offerings than see regular map showcases become a thing (and I hated map offerings with a passion).
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As a former Sprint Burst enjoyer, I've completely given up the perk in most of my builds. It's still in my stealthy Ghost Notes / Lightweight build, but it's mostly there just to get the build activated. Might be useful to the better loopers out there but it's a dead perk slot to me now.
It was my only fun Meta perk and since don't like any of the other exhaustion perks (aside from Head On), I've moved onto running my goofy sub optimal builds instead. Been having fun with my 2V8 themed build (Alert + Any Means Necessary + Urban Evasion + Iron Will) and my Alien: Isolation build (Urban Evasion + Diversion + Premonition + Chem Trap or some other crafting perk).
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They're kind of like Nurse in the respect that you end up playing a totally different game when versing them. I don't mind that, tbh. A bit more variety is a good thing and I enjoyed my one game against them so far.
That said, I imagine it might get a bit tiresome to face if they have their ruin up all game and you have to keep jumping off your gen every 15 seconds. Cleansing totems is not easy against this killer either and I have regular SoloQ games where a hex will stay up the entire game because nobody brought a perk to help find totems. I know the power is useful in chase, but long range sniping at gens is definitely going to be the main play style for most players.
They're tricky to master and not free with the base game like the Nurse, so I don't expect to face them very often after this week in the low MMR kiddie pool that I usually end up in.
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@cogsturning said:
Best they can do is cut 5s off the basekit BT.
Don't forget the nerf to Off The Record.
I don't think a meaningful anti-tunnel update will ever be coming to the game, OP. Content creators said no, so you'll just have to accept it's a core part of the game or go and play something else more enjoyable to you.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111731#Comment_4111731
BHVR isn't really interested in balancing certain perks as much as nuking them. They've done it in the past and will almost certainly do it again in the future. That was the fate of SB.
I feel like that's the aim behind a lot of nerfs, tbh. It's not about keeping a perk useful, BHVR just want players to stop using it altogether.
It's probably not so much about addressing a balance issue as it is about making the community's loudest complainers shut up for a few weeks. I don't blame them, tbh. We do complain A LOT.
Balance is weird in DBD, anyway. We have Killers like Nurse, Blight (and now The Judgement) that are only really "balanced" by their incredibly high skill floors. But for any player that can clear that barrier and get good, pretty much every lobby they'll go up against will fold like a deckchair and we see very good players go on some massive win steaks. And yet on the other end of the scale we have Trapper, a guy that can step in his own traps and has to walk around the map to collect his power. There's nothing remotely balanced about that. I feel that as long as very powerful Killers exist, then Survivors need to have access to equally strong perks to have much of a chance of surviving against them.
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Since Sprint Burst is the only exhaustion perk that you have to waste unless you want to walk around all game, I'm inclined to agree.
But if I had to guess, I think BHVR eventually intend for all exhaustion perks to give haste for only 2 seconds. Sprint Burst is just the first casualty. I think they are possibly just testing the waters to see how people react to the SB nerf, before going ahead with nerfing the rest in upcoming patches.
I've already switched over to Lithe (despite not liking it) because SB is now one of the worst exhaustion perks imo. But if they do go ahead and nerf the others, I'd probably go back to SB.
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I think your friend either needs to be a big horror fan, enjoy the feeling of fear (I know people say DBD isn't scary anymore but it definitely is to a lot of new players, believe me), or be a masochist who enjoys playing very difficult games. If none of those things are there for your friend, I doubt they will be able to stick around long enough to get over the initial steep learning curve. DBD has to be offering you something else that goes beyond the basic gameplay loop to get you hooked, imo. I don't think the beginner experience is all that bad if your enjoyment isn't just coming from the usual dopamine hit of winning some games.
I'm not sure playing with an experienced 3 man is a good thing, tbh. You'll be pulling them out of the baby MMR that they should be in. It might be better for them to just play alone. I don't think it's a great idea for them to be seeking out guides from content creators or trying to teach them everything just yet, either. You'll just overwhelm them and there is joy in discovering things for yourself that they'll be missing out on if you try to teach them everything to quickly. If you do want to play with them, I'd suggest only playing with them as a duo so that you've got more chance of getting chill / less experienced Killers in your lobbies.
I personally think the looping play style that content creators go in for is not a good one to follow for complete beginners. They are almost always better off staying below the radar and playing stealthy.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110986#Comment_4110986
it really is unfortunate that the exhausted portion ate so much of the perks power budget because being a passive auramancer is something we are sorely lacking as we have like, Vigil and Leader since Streetwise got reworked. I don't like to see perks being made useless, tbh I'd have just washed my hands with the exhausted portion and just make Vigil the ultimate status effect related perk.
I think I would have preferred that we lost the exhausted part of the perk but kept the rest. For what little it does, Vigil's outshined by Ghost Notes now imo.
But then I really like Swiss army knife perks that do a lot (like Resilience and Fire Up). If this is the start of a trend, I'm a little bit worried Resilience is gonna be next 💀
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109499#Comment_4109499
We have not danced around anything, we have said we currently have no plans for a Switch 2 version. There's nothing more that we can tell you, its not in the plans right now.
If there are no plans for a dedicated Switch 2 version, are we to understand that the Switch 1 version of DBD will continue to get updates beyond the upcoming rebuilt / graphically enhanced version of the game? If all goes to plan, that update could be less than a year from now.
Given what we've seen of the impressive weather effects, it's hard to believe the upgraded game could ever run on original Switch hardware and would likely need the extra power of the Switch 2 to be able to run well (if at all). So unless a Switch 2 port is being worked on, that suggests to me that maybe the game isn't going to be available on Nintendo platforms in the near future. Do you guys have news to share with us on whether or not the new version of the game will be able to run on all current platforms?
I think the Switch player base would really appreciate some clarity on what the future holds for the game on Nintendo. I'm sure gamers still on the older Xbox and PS platforms would like some clarity on this as well.
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I think that's a fair assessment of how the MMR update will go, given what we know about how it works. I think a lot of players have similar concerns. But I do think it will be an improvement for somewhat experienced SoloQ players who find themselves in matches with relatively inexperienced teammates. I'm sure we've all had matches when we've done 2 or 3 gens, saved everyone from hook and had at least one decent chase but died in the end because nobody else was pulling their weight. So it might give players who find themselves in low MMR hell an opportunity to get better future teammates simply by progressing the game.
I feel like the direction of travel for the game has been towards making it a more competitive experience overall. It's not what I personally think is good for the game, but it does seem like that's were the majority of the player base is heading these days (which I think is a generational shift as much as anything else. Kids these days don't have the history that older gamers have of having to sit next to the guys you're playing multiplayer games with. I think that's given them a stronger competitive drive on average than past generations because in the old days if you stomped your opponent too hard, you'd quickly run out of people willing to play with you (especially so if you opted for the cheesiest strategies. Anyway, I digress…).
Nothing so strange about that, most multiplayer games are inherently competitive. But what I do find strange is BHVR's continued insistence that we still shouldn't know what our relative skill level is. It's still completely hidden from us in the new system, making it difficult to really know if it's working as intended or not. I don't think they will ever do a deep dive on how the system really works. They seem to prefer that players don't know an MMR system even exists at all.
That doesn't say much for BHVR's confidence in quality of the updated system.
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@TheMruczek said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110588#Comment_4110588
I agree, it's not just about streamers in particular but overall adding that "little" warning to ensure that the most clueless survivors don't get bodied by getting sniped on a totem or a gen. I am not sure about accessability thing.
Maybe they thought about this as well but at the same time I didn't see anyone really complain about it and after rewatching some PtB clips, you have clear noise and visual cues. I kinda can't think of any subtle way to potentially improve that aspect without going Bhvr's route of making it extremely predictable. So idk, maybe the devs will issue a statement or something to explain it better.
In my Legion games before they improved the visibility of the deep wound timer bar, I would frequently get newer Survivors not realise that they needed to mend and then they would bleed out sitting on a gen. Since they fixed that issue, it hardly happens these days. So I think this is kind of a similar thing, to avoid something like that happening. I personally don't think we'll see much of The Judgement in low and beginner MMR, but they still have to consider the possibility that less experienced Survivors will potentially get caught out by long range snipes like this. If I understand their power correctly, you won't always have line of sight on a beam when it's heading towards you (say on an indoor map). So they have to make Killers feel fair to players at all levels of the game, especially as there is already so much to learn in DBD.
Perhaps they also saw players doing this and it wasn't their vision for how the Killer was intended to be played. Just like how some players would stall a Trial defending a 3 gen to such a degree with Singu that the server would eventually kick everybody out and give a "win" to the Killer.
Plus, it's a live stream with people who are probably quite nervous and lacking in media training. I often forget what I'm meant to say when I'm nervous and might make a joke instead to get through an awkward moment. Maybe this dev is the same. I don't really know their rationale, just putting some ideas / possibilities out there. But as you say, maybe BHVR will tell us more soon.
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I think the dev in question just had a clumsy way of articulating why they felt they needed to give Survivors a little extra warning that a beam was heading their way. Could also be an accessibility consideration (and they don't want to repeat the mistakes they made with The Spirit having nothing like that in her counter-play). I don't think it goes any deeper than that.
I'm not going to pretend I know if that's a good or bad thing for the viability of the Killer because I've not been the slightest bit interested in this upcoming community chapter. I haven't followed it. But I think it's silly to jump on one little thing that a dev said as if it represents BHVR's entire balancing philosophy for the game.
That said, I do feel like popular content creators have an outsized influence on the game sometimes. I'll see a video come out and feel like I've just seen a preview of some future patch notes, because quite often what they suggest (for better or worse) comes to pass a few months down the line.
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For me, the last couple years have been both the best and the worst of times to be playing DBD. For every positive change they've made that made me jump for joy, they've done something equally terrible to make me want to uninstall the game forever and drop kick my graphics card into the sun.
So… Pretty much the same as usual, I guess. With the upcoming graphical update, I'm not even sure I'll be able to play the game in the not so distant future. So whatever the future holds for DBD, I'm not sure I'll be coming along for the ride. If it comes to that, it's hard to be too optimistic about that.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110100#Comment_4110100
achieve kill rates in excess of 75%.
Average kill rates are around 60% and often lower than 60%, my kill rates are around 60%.
They'll keep on calling for Survivor nerfs and BHVR, it seems, will keep listening to them.
What's different on survivor side?, survivor constantly ask for nerfs like killers do like blight got nerfed, clouraphobia got nerfed and nowhere to hide got nerfed.
Survivors got massive buffs like the pallet density update and bhvr still adds pallets each update, vigil is insanely unhealthy for the game and sprintburst was a meta perk for 10 years and insanely strong against 4.4 killers so they needed the nerfs, you can use lithe instead of sprintburst and I personally think as a killer main that lithe is a fine perk not needing to get nerfed. Vigil now only affects exhaustion by only 30% but bhvr said it's a "nightmare to balance" and they are planning to buff it later.
Hyperfocus + stakeout + de ja vu or resilience is insanely strong currently so try using those if it's so hard for you.
If average Kill rates are at 60% (or there abouts), that suggest we've already reached a pretty healthy balance already. Sadly, BHVR are not very forthcoming with breakdowns of individual Killer performances, so we're left guessing if every Killer is close to hitting that 60% target. Still, it seems like Killer is doing OK to me.
I didn't agree with The Blight 4.4 nerf. I didn't it make any difference to his most skilled players, it only harmed his pick rate with players who are more casual or still learning the power and I don't think that's the way to go. I'm not saying Killers never get nerfs, obviously they do. But I am saying that the direction of travel has been to buff Killer and improve the Killer experience overall. It's hard to think of a Killer that didn't get any recent buffs. Heck, even Pig got buffs. In contrast, we saw the first new Survivor item for years get nerfed right out of the gate. Strong Survivor perks don't stay strong for long enough to allow new ways of play to develop or challenge the current meta. That's what's different. Ironically, I only moved onto Sprint Burst after MFT got nerfed and now that in turn is being nerfed as well.
I think the pallet density update is not as much of a buff as some people make it out to be. Yeah, it is a buff because there are more pallets but lots of them are filler pallets or pallets that can be played as Killer. I'd argue it's only really made SWFs much stronger, who tend to co-ordinate for pallet saves more often (this almost never happens in my SoloQ games). Besides, in exchange for more pallets on the map we've had some main buildings and formerly strong set ups turned into death traps (e.g. Gas Heaven). So it's not all in the Survivor side's favour.
As for Vigil, it's been gutted so badly that it won't see much use in the future. Killing a perk entirely isn't healthy for the game either. I don't like Lithe but I think that will be on the chopping block next anyway. You might think Lithe is fine now, but I remember people saying the same about Sprint Burst not too long ago and look where we are now. Besides, SB isn't a magic bullet against 4.4 Killers, most have a ranged attack that can close the gap. I liked SB because I enjoyed the tension of working on a gen until the last moment. It made it feel safer to work on riskier gens, but it wasn't so strong that it could always get me out of trouble. Post-nerf, it won't be worth the perk slot imo and I'll just have to adjust my play style to pre-run anytime I see a Killer head in my direction. All very dull, but playing more cautiously is something I'll have to do in future without an exhaustion perk to fall back on.
I can't believe you'd suggest Hyper Focus + DeJa Vu + Stake Out + Resi as an alternative. What Killer wants to see more gen rush builds? Isn't that just swapping out one commonly complained about build for another? Gen rushing is such a boring way to play and I can't exactly do every gen by myself, anyway. That doesn't work in SoloQ.