What are your most hated perks?
As the title says, what are your most hated perks? Or maybe what perks do you think are the most frustratingly designed?
For me playing as a survivor, my most hated perks are definitely Spirit Fury and Pentimento. Both take established game mechanics and counterplays and turn them into lose-lose scenarios for survivors, and I think that is awful game design.
As killer, it would probably Deliverance and DS. Deliverance is for a similar reason to Spirit Fury and Penti, where it actively punishes killers for hooking and especially for playing nicer and spreading hooks. With DS, I know it's necessary to be in the game but I hate how aggressively it's used and I hate being punished for "tunneling" when I have 6 hooks on other survivors.
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NoEd. It just never feels good and the inconsistent value it gets can make it feel like either a nothing perk or a perk that completely steers the game when you're playing with a grab bag of skill levels in solo queue. One bad game involving this perk and I counterforce the entire map for the rest of my session.
As killer, there aren't many survivor perks that bother me too much. Probably Hyperfocus combos, purely because these are the games that can be lost with one inefficient chase.
NOED. Killers getting free kills in endgame because they couldn’t get kills before gens were done feels super cheap to me. Survivor side doesn’t have anything similar in terms of rewarding players for not playing well.
Shoulder the burden, I would always rather see ds + dead hard instead of it. It's always demoralising seeing that a death hook survivor which is needed for pressure at 1 or 2 gens needs to be tunneled out gets to one hook after a really stressful match when you have only a few hooks (this happens when I get queued against much better players and when playing weak killer).
As survivor I would say it's hex third seal.
for killer, Finesse. I hate the Finesse+Lithe pair more than I did SB+ Vigil. Finesse encourages not engaging with the killer, and pairing it with Lithe can stall ramp up killers like Oni or Nemesis for potentially the entire match if the entire team is running it. Which I have seen consistently for years.
As survivor I can't stand DMS, Deadlock, Lethal Pursuer and Pain Resonance. I'm just gonna go against the grain and say I've never minded Noed I love end game shenanigans
Finesse is such a silly perk it's not necessarily OP or anything just feels bad. A very quick first hit turns into 0.0001m miss because of finesse on my honest 20ms ping. At least it isn't backloaded like old dh resi spinechill people use to use.
Currently, DMS. It's an insanely bad perk against competent teams and gets promoted as a good perk by many content creators.
It's a trap for new killer players essentially.
As survivor: As of late. Celestial + Nemesis. That combo can burn on the stake in my opinion
As killer: Finesse + Lithe. Always hated getting robbed of hits due to that combo.
Killer perks I hate
NOED: weeny hut junior killers want free kill
Hex:TOTH: i LoVe HolDiNg rB
Franklins: yeah dw I totally didn't want that purple item i brought to the trial.
Weave attunement: and great now they can see me all the damn time too.
No way out: did gens, now you've got to hide for an extra minute, better hope you weren't on death hook when you tried to open the gate.
Survivor perks I hate
Head on: hey here's an uncounterable situation. Suck it.
Blast mine: huge hypocrite on this one, love using it, getting hit by it infuriates me more than I can accurately express.
Champion of light: I hope every killer you play against has lightborn.
Flashbang: I hate that sound
Boil over: I will literally tunnel you.
brother what? half the perks reward the surv for goin on hook or losing chases
I don't think there's any killer perks that annoy me. Survivor perks, probably just Boil Over on indoor maps. Hate getting stuck in doorways.
Surprised to see people naming Finesse + Lithe but I guess it makes sense
The part I hate about Head On is how the hitbox lingers. There have been so many times I have known what the survivor is doing, successfully baited them out of the locker, and then swing at them, but then because the hitbox lingers for like an extra second I get stunned anyway even though I outplayed the hell out of them and they did not deserve that stun at all.
Yh i noticed this in a game against a bully squad recently. I baited the guy out of the locker, once he was out I lunged at him and still took the damn stun
I'm right there with you, bud. I feel like such a sneaky prankster using it myself, whereas when I get hit by it I annoyed that someone dared inconvenience me for a few seconds.
boon perks and blast mine
boon perks because you can apply them infinitely and blast mine because you can't counter it without remote gen regresdion perks like surge or turn back the clock
Most of the ones I really hated got changes (Franklin's, Knock Out and Sloppy Butcher), so there aren't really many left in isolation that I hate anymore. Just the ones that are a middle finger to SoloQ like Hex: The Third Seal and No Quarter. I guess the ones that buff SWF would be annoying too if I ever saw them in my Killer games (things like We're Gonna Live Forever, Background Player and Shoulder The Burden), but I don't really.
I don't usually see any of these perks in most of my games, so I can't say if they desperately need changes.
I also kinda hate Hex perks in general, just because of their inconsistency and the play styles and perk combos that revolve around defending them. And also because I feel like I have the worst luck with them since they tend to stay up all game if I'm playing Survivor or get cleansed immediately whenever I'm playing Killer. I wonder if Killer players would trade being able to see their hex totems for much better hidden spawn locations.
If you didn't know this, while your being pushed left or right by Boil Over you can just turn your screen in the opposite direction so it pushes you forward instead of into doorways.
Killer perks I hate: Enduring, it feels really bad to get the stun then proceed to get zero value. Or anything that grants free hits in bad spots such as Blood Favor.
Survivor perks I hate: anything that rewards survivors for dying It's incredibly annoying trying to split hooks and you have the unhooked survivor following directly behind the other with OTR, DS, DH, ect. Then proceed have no way of punishing it without losing a generator.
Lightborn counters it and gives you aura of who placed it.
I can relate with blast mine so much
I've said it before but killer perk that annoys me is Friends Til the End, mostly because I've been caught out by it a few times.
Survivor perk that annoys me the most is probably Finesse because it's always the most cocky ones using it
Friends is luckily super easy to counter, if you hide in a locker you can completely counter Friends you won't scream so it won't transfer to you, and if you're in there for 10s your aura will not be shown. Fun fact: if all survivors are hiding in a locker when the obsession is killed it won't tranfer.
lightborn doesn't counter the stun and it arguably makes it worse since you see the stun and are stuck in the animation anyway
I'm aware but I mean before you know the killer has it, you can be very unlucky like I have in the past and be around the first time it's activated.
Killer: Enduring/Spirit Fury
Survivor: Boil Over, and Vigil until recently
Stb because it's useless 90% if the times when a duo or solo queue person uses it . However it buffs only the most coordinated swfs who know how to use it well . This perks going against the entire idea of bringing solo queue closer to swf , instead it brings it further apart.
Hates a heavy word for my choices. But I dislike four perks more then the others and one is on both sides.
Survivor- hyper focus+stake out. I dislike these for two big reasons. Can't tell if someone is subtle cheating. It's a combo that always makes a match go by quick.
Both sides- DS for many reasons. One is. When I'm survivor the teammates I mostly have that try to force it are so annoying because most times 5 seconds later they are on the floor. And as killer I can some how get hit by it while spreading hooks? Like darn it is so agrivating
Killer- Blood favor. I dislike it because damn when I'm the first survivor found that pallet would have been real useful
This is basically how I was going to answer the question. So I'm just going to go with what tjt85 said.
Deadlock and lethal pursuer are the worst killer perks designed.
Deja Vu is the worst survivor perk designed.
Hmm for me I'd say
Killer-Lethal Pursuer and Friends till the end.
Survivor- Windows and Finesse
Both of my most disliked perks are in a different state these days. Still:
Blood Pact, and Road Life. They are both so situationally worthless and i hope they are part of the big perk overhaul coming up.
I'd say the two perks I hate the most are Dissolution and Blood Favour.
I think that Dissolution is just badly designed and in need of a rework, its definitely not overpowered in a balance sense and can even be outright useless in a lot of matches or situations, but I find that to be part of the problem, personally. And there are killers that make it a more frustrating experience outright like Ghoul or Krasue given how good they are at punishing tile transitions.
Blood Favour is more of an actual problem in my opinion, though the recent nerfs to Thrill have made it less of one. I think it could do with some kind of restriction or limiting factor like an activation condition, as it activating off of M2s leads to it being overly strong on a lot of the high end killers that have good two tap potential without resources, and it being active off the start leads to early snowballing. You might be able to cleanse the totem, but all it really takes is 2 or 3 good activations to get significant value from the perk in my opinion.
On the survivor side, though, I think Shoulder The Burden is an interesting and fun perk to use…that is a genuine balance issue unfortunately. Less with the vigil change, for sure, but its downside isn't enough for its strengths, and the only reason its not being seen more is how common it is for people to unhook badly and not look at their teammates perks. At its core, it needs to either actually lose strength against people who aren't tunneling, or have a more significant downside to using it (importantly, not both at the same time!). I'm not opposed to leaving it as a generally strong perk rather than making it anti-tunnel, but it should really see a similar injured and broken condition to For The People if its going to stay that way.
What makes you say StB is a balance issue?
It already doesn't do anything of note if the killer isn't tunneling, which seems like a pretty fair restriction to me.
Because it absolutely does do a LOT if the killer isn't tunneling. Forcing hook stages to be normalized across your team is a very, very powerful safety valve for pressure. Unless your definition of tunneling is ridiculous to the point that not 4-hooking arbitrarily is tunneling, it is very common for hook stages to be 1-2-1-0 by 4 hooks without someone being hard targeted, and (while less common) particularly stubborn survivors returning to an important gen the killer is patrolling, or survivors against killers with high map mobility can be put to 1-2-0-0 by 3 hooks even with a full reset just by happenstance.
Having someone on death hook changes a lot about how survivors play, or at least how they should play. In these cases, survivor 2 has to be much, much more careful about everything from what gen they're doing, to whether they go for saves, to even crossing the map. It often draws out altruism from the rest of the team that can lead to pretty heavy snowballing as well. Shoulder just eats all that death hook pressure, and often for free if its done at the right time or if the killer relies on damaging M2s for downs so they can't make use of the exposed.
Spirit Fury and Enduring are the lose-lose. Its so hard to get value out of Spirit Fury alone (except on maybe Myers), you HAVE to add Enduring if you want to be rewarded for using it. I would rather have the perk do something else entirely over it being so co-dependant on Enduring.
My least favourite killer perks to deal with is Weave Attunement. Franklin's Demise or not, survivors shouldn't be punished for deciding to mess around with items or chests.
Most hated survivor perk? Easily Boil Over. Survivors just run to the top of a main building and wait to go down there instead risking a chase and the killer is forced to leave them there.
I'm not really sure I see that kind of effect meaningfully happening in most matches. Normalising out 1-2-1-0 to 1-1-1-1 by 4 hooks may make survivor two play slightly less cautiously, but that comes at the cost of survivor four now having a whole chase/down/hook removed from them so it doesn't actually add that much to the game overall.
You as the killer still get the full weight of hook value, and you're if anything also closer to threatening the whole team since now everyone is one hook away from death hook - there's not a 'fresh' survivor to take any aggro or go for a riskier save or anything.
Not to mention that in this scenario, the only way it works out is if survivor four and only survivor four is the one who actually has StB equipped. It can't be survivor two for obvious reasons, but it being survivor one or survivor three just shuffles around who's closer to death.
If multiple survivors are running it in this scenario, then multiple survivors have dead perk slots, so that's not a much better outcome either.
The pressure being lessened on survivor two here only matters if they're actually the one being targeted by the killer next, and the only time that's guaranteed is if they're being tunnelled. Otherwise there's way too many variables outside of the players' control to conclusively say StB is actually helping much- it's a maybe at best.
I strongly disagree both from going against the perk as someone who doesn't hard tunnel when I play killer and as someone who brings the perk into my matches decently often. The pressure being lessened matters a very significant amount on survivor 2 for the simple reason that getting found again at all becomes a removed player otherwise. Many killers run some amount of aura reading, or have information baked into their kit, and can prioritize survivor 2 after their next chase without tunneling them off hook. The killer catching 2 moving around and dropping chase for them is often game losing for me, and is not uncommon at all in solo queue where its difficult to know where to lead chases away from.
Even if they don't have that information - you're now in a situation where two injures and a hook becomes a strong proxy option that is difficult to break through without cutting a lot of gen time, and have a pretty weakened ability to attack important generators with one less valid survivor to rotate to them. And thats before considering potential snowball potential - slugging survivor 4 becomes a much more reasonable tempo option, 2 basically HAS to find another survivor for the heal if a hook trade happens, end game becomes much harder to play, and so on. Having a 4th body on the board for any real amount of time is better than 2-3 survivor perk slots in every single situation, and if players were less allergic to leaving their teammates on hook for longer than 5 seconds after the killer turns around, I would bring Shoulder every single time.
Lightborn
Its just bad design
Easily most exhaustion perks (excluding perks like Head On, Smash Hit, and Rapid Response). The problem isn't necessarily that their effects are too strong, the problem is that they're too strong for the complete lack of effort it takes to activate them.
Thrill of the Hunt also pisses me off. Completely removes the "risk" part from hex perks' "risk and reward" design.
Shoulder the burden + anti-tunnel (combo), Blast mine bleugh. And Gen perks for the survivor side but likely not for the reason you think. For the killer side I would say penti on a good player in soloq.
I mean yeah that's what I mean by Spirit Fury, Enduring is always ran with it but I have no beef with Enduring, just Spirit Fury as it's the core of the issue. Although I will say I think you can get away with playing Myers Spirit Fury without Enduring since in T3 he gets I think 30% fast stuns.
potential energy.
even this is not happening outsells.
if i see 1 (one) more person charging this shi I SWEAR TO GOD
But your not thinking of the potential!
The potential to get yourself snowballed that is. I used to use Potential energy, it's a trap(but it's funny to watch a team mate jump at the sudden noise)