Your_Dad_Playing_DbD
Your_Dad_Playing_DbD
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@sirlemonhead said:
Discord is not a forum replacement. The gradual disappearance of searchable information on forums is disappointing in general. Discord posts are just farts in the wind. I won't be moving over there.
It’s pretty obvious why they want to move everyone over to Discord where you very accurately stated ideas appear and disappear like farts in the wind. It has been glaringly apparent for years that BHVR care very little about community input and they’re just going to do whatever TF they want to do. Now there will be no receipts. Blowing up the forum is a great way to make sure nobody remembers what the community have been asking for or what promises BHVR have made and never followed through on.
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All those other platforms are dogs****. That’s why I’m here and not there
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Giving the community’s most dedicated players the middle finger. Seems about right
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Well, bye everyone, I guess. This might as well be my last post here as I’m sure this place is going to empty out pretty quickly.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119480#Comment_4119480
I would prefer a 40% escape rate for myself if it meant that the game was pushed in a more engaging direction. the purpose of what I am saying isn't "I want or need to win more" I don't actually care about my escape rate, I care about whether a match was fun, whether the challenges put forward actually encouraged me to continue to play the game. that is why I am so vocal on the "tunneling is bad" discussions, because BHVR is shooting survivor in the foot by endorsing killer strategies that suck the actually interesting engagement out of the game. I don't care if killer gets buffed to compensate for tunneling becoming impossible because the game would be more fun to play that way. I don't care about Survivor/Killer perk metas, I want perks on both sides to be fun and engaging rather than induce a sense of "dang it, they're running X and Y so I have to do Z even though it sucks to do.
If it takes a total removal of fun and engaging mechanics to truly balance DBD, then I don't want to play balanced DBD. right now Halloween is fantastic because it's just about enjoying the game for most people, I don't care if michael wins or civilians win, I care whether the match was fun. that obviously doesn't mean that the game should be made systematically unfair for one side of the game to enforce that, but it does mean that just because something is balanced in percentages (Survivor Escape Rate) doesn't mean it's well designed or well maintained. that's why the survivor perks being gutted is such a horrible decision in the eyes of so many people on here, because standout things are getting hammered into obscurity to make sure nothing stands out in any way… then you're left with…. kinda nothing interesting, and a lot of reasons to move on to something else.Thanks for replying back - this is the kind of discussion that is constructive and enjoyable. I get what you’re saying now, and I can definitely get on board with that. I’m starting to see the part now that I was missing in prior discussions, about it not being that survivors don’t feel like they aren’t escaping frequently enough, but rather wanting more engaging and entertaining matches even if they aren’t escaping in most of their matches. The hard part is figuring out ways to do this without impacting the killer experience in a significantly negative way, and that’s where previous attempts have gone wrong.
Anyway, I understand more about where you and others are coming from now. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119387#Comment_4119387
Why does it matter how the killer plays if you still get out?
I also want to address this sentence. I have a 30-day ER of 70%. My current 2v8 ER is also 70%. Both of those are out of 100+ matches. I don't abandon so those are completely real numbers. Does this mean I'm happy? No. Because a ton of that is getting hatch in hopeless games. It's not fun creeping about waiting for hatch in a garbage match, it's fun running out the gates after a save. There are so many ways for a survivor match to get that way too. It could be a tunneling killer, it could be bad teammates, but it feels bad either way. I don't regularly feel that way on killer because I always retain a certain level of control, and I can always make a comeback, but I feel that way constantly as survivor. The only comeback is hatch and that's still a team loss.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119447#Comment_4119447
I've been playing a lot of SoloQ recently and i've seen survivors throwing matches in the most diverse aspects, going for save when they shouldn't, greeding a gen in front of a instadown killer, refusing to heal against an Oni or a Wraith, etc etc
See, this is a thing I don't get. Survivors are often blamed for being bad, but why aren't killers? Why can't it be "you lost because you're bad" instead of "poor baby you lost because of those pallets, and their perks, and main, and the comms, and stealth, and gen rushing, and your weak killer, and the techs, and and and". This always seems to be the way. Survivors lose = get good; killers lose = nerf survivor. Even now there are killers in this forum asking for more nerfs.
Also, Henry's nerfs were minor. Like many A tiers, he went from A to A with nerfs. Krasue was just a bad design and doesn't belong as the same sentence as Henry.
So what would an ideally-balanced game look like to you so that both sides are having fun? Just very high level, like your ideal target kill/escape rates and restrictions on how killers are allowed to play?
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119387#Comment_4119387
really bizarre way to word the end of that, maybe I am misunderstanding you but
"Why does it matter how the killer plays if you still get out"
seem to miss the entire point of anyone playing any game which is entertainment… why would people want to queue up for an experience that's just all around bad? I have played probably 80% of my time in DBD on solo queue and over the years it just became significantly more bad experiences than good, I still have an above average escape rate on my most played survivor (54%) but if every game feels like a nightmare to put the effort in to escape why would I keep playing?
Yeah Tunneling/Hook Camping/Slugging can all be played through but why would I do that? especially camping and slugging just remove interaction from a game built around intense interaction… and there's dozens of very popular games I could play in different genres that are actuallly designed to be competitive in this way if I wanted to have a full comp experience so why would I choose to suffer through a game that is absolutely not balanced and is absolutely not suited to comp, but is being forced into a comp box when I can just play an actual comp game which is designed to be engaging and playable for everyone?So you have >50% escape rate but still not having fun because you have to work hard to escape in most of your matches? What will it take to make you enjoy the game then? Sorry if that’s not what you’re intending to do, but that is what I am reading. What is the solution? Make matches even easier so that you don’t have to work as hard to escape, leading to an even higher escape rate? Let’s apply that expectation to all survivors. Then we get to escape rates well over 50% for everyone and now the killer role is miserable.
I honestly don’t know what it will take to make some of the survivor players here happy, and that’s the entire point I’ve been trying to make here and in many other threads. Even players with high escape rates say they are still not having fun, so what will it take for you to have fun? And how do you implement it without making the other side miserable? -
@BestStateSinceEver said:
The devs have lost the plot. By optimizing and balancing over the years, they have sucked much of the fun out of survivor. Many perks nowadays are very conditional or limited use to be worth taking over a meta perk. If you want variety and pick niche over meta, you will regret not having meta perks as you get tunneled or camped by a tryhard killer. The upcoming perk changes are supposed to fix this on paper, but I don't know how much of that will impact the meta when the live patch happens. Also, just in general, survivor got nerfed too hard while killer became generally easier, that you need 1000s of hours to start "getting good". Doesn't help that there's nothing similar to dbd's looping in other games so you there's basically no transferrable skill from other games.
I think there needs to be a realization that most survivor players are solo queue, and most arent even good enough to take real advantage of a full premade like the comp squads do. In my opinion, they need to make the game easier in some way or another and less punishing for solo queue survivors. It takes one tryhard killer to stomp a lobby with ease and there's absolutely nothing the average team can do against it, they'll just go through the motions until the abandon option appears.
I would be all for making the game easier for solo queue survivor if there was an actual problem with solo queue survivors not escaping often enough. But the numbers tell us there is not. Solo queue survivors are escaping on average 40% of the time. Some are doing better and some are doing worse. But if you are average skill level, it’s probably around 40%. Everyone has their different opinions about what that target number should be, but history tells us that if it goes over 40%, then you start to get a deficit of killer players and the survivor queue times become very long. I remember periods in the game’s history when it was like that.
You also have the problem of SWF getting further getting buffed when I think most agree SWF does not need it. -
@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119169#Comment_4119169
If you're expecting me to make 'tbagging is bad guys :(' posts you're asking the wrong person. It should go without question that bad manners aren't acceptable and I consider such topics to be redundant at best and karma-farming at worst.
Killer has its issues, but none of them are currently egregious and I don't believe that equal attention needs to be given to both roles. If I feel like there is a big issue affecting killer I will say as much. I never claim to speak objectively.
There are more viable killers than ever including both M1 or otherwise except maybe at a level where less than 100 people play in consistently.Up until the coming patch, killers have enjoyed a variety of meta builds including four hex or four slowdowns, that's more than enough variety for competitive mmr's and tons of killers.
Nothing more needs to be said on that front.
You are still failing to grasp why survivor is currently miserable, it has nothing to do with if you can win but how you must win in the current game. However anytime a survivor tries to discuss this (or any complaint really,) the thread is immediately inundated with the same trite responses from the usual crowd.
Not all killer mains but always a killer main.”You are still failing to grasp why survivor is currently miserable, it has nothing to do with if you can win but how you must win in the current game”
Ok, well let’s focus on this then. You say it’s not an issue of how often you escape. What % of your matches do you think you escape? Let’s say you’re escaping at the average 40% of your matches. So in those matches where you’re escaping, you’re still miserable - why? If it’s tunneling/camping or some other objectionable killer strategy that you feel is the problem, but you’re still escaping, then I don’t understand what the issue is. Why does it matter how the killer plays if you still get out?
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@Elan said:
As I said WOO is no skill free aura perk same to nowhere to hide, lethal or celestial + nemesis. I'd argue that while it will massively nerf solo q experience and kill rates will climb high, this will make maps more appealing and overall decrease frustration on killer end, which is good. Killer community should be trated gently now when playerbase is rising. In the end survivors can play swf to have fun, killer is left alone out of 2v8 and their fun matters.
How high do you want kill rates to climb? Average is already at 60%. Any higher and you will start seeing extremely long killer queue times.
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It’s a mindset change that isn’t specific to DbD but to anything competitive. I’m a very competitive person by nature, and in my younger years I would get really bent out of shape whenever I lost at anything or when any sports team that I root for would lose. As I grew up, developed a career and started a family, I began to realize how meaningless competitive games are compared to other things in life that are far more important. That really helped me handle losing far more maturely.
I guess my best advice would be to find other more meaningful things in life outside of DbD or video games in general that you can pour your passion into. That doesn’t mean stop playing (I certainly haven’t stopped, although I don’t play nearly as much as I used to), but I really think it will help you handle losing far better. It certainly did for me. -
@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119113#Comment_4119113
The problem with your line of thinking is that you have a clear bias for killer that for some reason you pretend doesnt exist because you play both sides.
You also seem to fundamentally miss that survivor isnt unfun because its underpowered but because agency and skill expression keep getting neutered while killer gets the opposite every patch.
This leads to predictable boring games that lead to the feeling of being helpless.
There is no fun in getting kneecapped then constantly going against swiss army knife killer design philosophy of recent.
I also feel like it comes across as victim blaming to say survivors are their own worst enemy. The killer definitely plays a large role in survivor games being unfun.
If we’re going to play the “well you’re just biased” game, then I will point out that I have never once seen you post anything positive or anything even remotely favorable or in defense of the killer side. You can look back at my post history and see that there are plenty of times where I have stuck up for the survivor side or pointed out when certain killers or killer perks have been broken. So your bias is ok, but my alleged bias is not?
I am being sincere when I say that I really am trying to understand where you and others with similar opinions are coming from. But you tend to take an “us vs them” approach which tells me that you are not trying to understand the view of the other side but rather demonize the other side as always being the bad guy and “killer mains” not wanting you or other survivor players to have any fun. Yeah, there are probably some killer-only players that are like that, but I think a majority of killer players play both sides and thus want the game to be well-balanced for both sides. I certainly don’t want a consistently miserable survivor experience either.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472534/i-hate-hatch
Well they are changing sole survivor so that it's a less selfish perk which is good.
plus as long as you have hatch offerings/left behind and keys, people will still indulge in that kind of rat behaviour. Irritating as it is, I don't see it often enough to consider it a real problem. And as killer if you particularly want the 4k (usually I'm not fussed but if I have an adept of 4k tome challenge I'll do this) you can just slug for the 4k to prevent hatch spawning, or even bring a hatch offering as killer so you can instantly close it.
Hatch is kind of necessary. Without it, survivors have basically no reason to stay in losing games. You'd see a lot more DCs or people just giving up and throwing, which would be much worse than the very rare bush camper waiting out hatch.
I agree with keeping hatch in the game to give remaining survivors something to play for in a losing match. The real problem here isn’t the hatch, but the useless teammates who rat for hatch even in matches that aren’t lost yet. If we had an MMR and matchmaking system that wasn’t completely useless, these kinds of players would be relegated to the lowest skill matches (because they’re probably never escaping through the gates) and if you’re a decent survivor player that actually tries, you would never run into these players in your lobbies. Yet another example of how the game’s biggest problems all boil down to the non-functional matchmaking system.
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The only elements of Bubba that got nerfed are the ones that were extremely miserable for survivor and made it easy for Bubba to get zero skill cheap wins, like basement camping and slugging with Knockout. I played Bubba for a long time and I never wanted to win using those cheap playstyles, so I was fine with those nerfs. I don’t play him much anymore because he’s super easy for experienced survivors to loop for long chases. He’s actually my favorite killer to go against on the survivor side.
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119022#Comment_4119022
Its because some people here dont care about winning on survivor and would never put in the hard work to sweat on it.
Of course you think survivor is fun if you run a meme build and laugh as you die at four gens.
Whats annoying is that some of the same people will constantly push the killer underdog narrative because thats the role they actually try on and constantly beg for nerfs and parrot CC opinions to the T.
It makes a lot of discussion pointless off the rip, especially if you try to voice any survivor related complaint at all. And totally why I find 'both sides' players here largely disingenuous.
I’ll speak for myself and say that I absolutely care about winning on the survivor side. I just feel like survivor isn’t overly difficult or underpowered because I’ve had plenty of fun matches in solo queue, so I know it’s very possible to have fun and win (sometimes win very easily) when you have decent teammates who know how to play the game. As I’ve said many times before, most of my miserable matches have been due to bad teammates and not overly oppressive killers.
This is what has led me to the conclusion that there is not a fundamental imbalance between the strength of the killer and survivors roles, and why I voice my disagreement when others say that there is. I also play a lot of killer and I also don’t feel like that role is overly oppressive, at least based on my experience. I’ve posted my stats and shown that I’m a little over the average 60% kill rate (overall total “lifetime” across all killers). Many of my killer matches feel plenty challenging, thus my opposition to further survivor buffs/killer nerfs.
I very much respect the opinions of those who disagree when they base their disagreement on actual experience in both roles. I know some of them are way better killer players than I am and have extremely high kill rates, so I can understand why they believe killer side needs to be nerfed. But I will always challenge opinions from players who demand nerfs for one side without any regard for the experience of the other side that they don’t play, especially when they claim that a certain role is extremely easy while they actually don’t have any experience to back it up. Those are the most “disingenuous” opinions that I see here.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118805#Comment_4118805
I'm curious why you don't seem to ask this of the killer hardliners of the form though. There are people here I could name that constantly do nothing but complain about the killer side and how strong survivor side. Why aren't they under equal scrutiny? I see a lot of people ask the "do you even play killer??" I get hit with it constantly, along with accusations that I pretend to play the role. But the opposite question seems rarely asked. Why does killer experience seem to out weigh survivor experience?
Has someone here recently claimed that survivor is super easy to play with minimal experience? If they have, I haven’t seen it. If you want to point me to some recent comments like this I’ll be happy to ask.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118817#Comment_4118817
I don't think you understand. Lets say a match is going south for the survivors, but no one has DC'd. After being slugged for the 4k (not enough to abandon) and out of sheer frustration with that situation, the slug DCs. That is a 4k match but the match result gets totally thrown out and isn't included in the official stats. That inflates the official escape rates. It doesn't have to happen late in the match either, any match with an early DC is also not included in official stats, the ones that show us the 40% escape rate. If you also think matches with an abandon are not being included in the official escape rate then things become truly dire, most matches the killer wins include at least one abandon right now.
I agree 100% with the impact of the scenario example you provided, but DCs are far less common than abandons so I don’t believe they have a huge impact on the official escape rate stats. Of course I could be wrong because BHVR refuses to share data that would help us clear up the debate. But it would take a huge number of matches with DCs to significantly skew the official stats (I’m not talking about the stats tracker page - that’s a whole separate discussion) and as much as I think DCs are still too common, they aren’t common enough to have that kind of impact.
If we had any official stats showing that average escape rate is truly lower than 40%, I would be fully on board the “we need to buff survivors” train. But I haven’t seen anything to indicate that the 40% average still isn’t true for the overall player population. I’d love to see contradicting data if anyone has that to share. -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118805#Comment_4118805
The end goal for me is trying to distinguish between who is here to have a good faith discussion about balance vs who is saying things that obviously aren’t true just to poke at the side they don’t like.This sounds like the opposite of good faith. You're demanding people provide something and, if they do, it doesn't have any meaning.
You're also only asking this of people who disagree with you.
But I can respect the opinions of those like the ones you mention above because,But its not an opinion, its a factual statement. You're denying that a thing exists, and then when some people provide their evidence that it does, you just move on. 'Respect' is not a discussion.
Also I don't think the stats posted correctly, though given the stat page really only kinda works for one side of the game it creates its own issue.
You also don't lay out your definitions. What's consistently? How often does someone need to face 'good' survivors for it to count? What exactly do survivors have to do to qualify as good?
You’re asking me things that are inherently subjective. I’m not asking that of anybody - I’m simply asking them “do you actually play killer?” and “how many hours?” which isn’t something subjective that can be debated. I honestly don’t even care what their kill rates are because the fact that most don’t even answer the first question tells me everything I need to know. For the players that share their stats, like the ones you mentioned above, I respect their opinions even when I disagree because I at least know that they are taking into account how buffs to one side will negatively impact the other.
I’m not trying to deny that anyone has a bad experience playing survivor. Many of my solo queue games are miserable, though it’s far more often due to bad teammates than the killer being too oppressive. A lot of people come here and claim that their side is too weak and other side too strong and demand buffs for their side/nerfs for the other (it happens with “killer mains” too, although not as often). I’m trying to understand who is actually considering the negative impacts to the other side and who is not. It’s not any more complicated than that. -
@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118806#Comment_4118806
Matches with a DC are not included in stats. While I would certainly agree that those stats should not be included for balance reasons they are very much part of what you experience when playing survivor. Unless matchmaking is going to stop placing those players in the same lobby as you its part of what you experience.
We also have zero confirmation of how BHVR treats abandons internally. I would hope BHVR isn't treating them as escapes or ignoring them but we do know that the stats page ignores them and they have had issues sending out stats to players in the past so it wouldn't be a total surprise if they get thrown into the "DC" bucket.
2 or 3 average but that isn't the same as most common match outcome. Personally 2k matches are the least common outcome with 4e and 4k being the most common.
Even if 4e and 4k are most common, the average survivor is still escaping 40% of the time - there’s no way around that fact. DCs and abandons don’t impact that number. This boils down to players’ expectations about the game. Some survivor players feel like the game is unfair because they’re not escaping often enough. Some survivor players are escaping at below the average rate because they’re just not that good at the game. After all, every game has a skill curve and a good portion of players will be below average. The same goes for expectations and skill curve on the killer side. We see plenty of complaints here from killer players who feel like the game is too survivor-sided. They are just less frequent because the game has far more regular survivor players than killer players.
BHVR has to balance the game around the entire population of players, not just players on the low end of the skill curve who feel like the game isn’t fair for the side they prefer to play because they’re not performing as well as they think they should. -
@mecca said:
It's ok for the survivor experience to be horrible, as long as the killer had fun. He was only trying to win after all.
Windows of Opportunity was obviously unfair for killers. It's not ok for survivors to try to win. Maybe we need to nerf some more anti-tunneling perks. 🙄
Survivors are escaping 40% of the time. It has been that way for a long time, unless someone has brand new data to share that proves otherwise. What does the escape rate need to be for the survivor experience not be considered “horrible?” Killers are getting on average between 2 and 3 kills per game, which at least to me feels about right for a horror game where escaping isn’t supposed to be guaranteed. If the experience is really so bad, then why is the player count still at historically high levels? Obviously it can’t be all killer players, so plenty of survivor players are still here having fun.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118745#Comment_4118745
How are you coming to this conclusion? Are you dominating as killer yourself? I’d be curious to see your hours played as killer and kill rate stats if you’re willing to share.What's the end goal of the questions?
@cogsturning and @vol4r posted their stats above. This is one of the classic forum dodges of one sided demands for proof. And when people actually step up with proof, it usually leads to either goal post moving or other side steps to avoid it.
What's your definition of consistently face? What's your kill rate on various killers being you're asking others?
The end goal for me is trying to distinguish between who is here to have a good faith discussion about balance vs who is saying things that obviously aren’t true just to poke at the side they don’t like. People can decide if they want to share their stats to show how much they play both sides - I really don’t care. But I can respect the opinions of those like the ones you mention above because, even if I disagree with them, if I know they’re being sincere and they can back up what they say.
blob:https://forums.bhvr.com/b3d3af8c-f57b-43ba-bb90-71f1e023baf6 There was an error displaying this embed.
And I’m happy to share my stats any time. Just a casual player who hovers around the average on both sides. I’m certainly not consistently stomping survivor teams like some claim is so easy to do for anyone with just a few hours experience: -
@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118563#Comment_4118563
I really dont think the game sustainable as it is now.
Who would want to play as a survivor, especially as a new player when with most killer you can dominate after few hours investment while as survivor even with 1000+ hours you are considered to be baby. And to be "good" you are required over 10k hours constant learning , not just playing because that itself means nothing. So obviously people will gravitate towards killers, at most they click on play as survivor while waiting and throw the match since they dont care about the role. The only source of income when new license acquired and some new players come to play but quickly realize that the survivor role really bad and leaves or play killer instead.
So the solution here is the adding of subtle bots presented as bad survivor, and seems like the MM rework was just to remove skillbased matchmaking altogether it doesn't matter how much you win or lose, seemingly you get new players to kill as killer and new players to lose with as survivor.
Even the play while you wait added as to avoid total collapse of matchmaking.
I really start to see that yeah killers will get power feel against hordes of bots while thinking how good they are against other players
Nobody is “dominating” as killer after a few hours of play. I’ve been playing killer for a long time and I consistently face good survivors that provide plenty of challenge.
How are you coming to this conclusion? Are you dominating as killer yourself? I’d be curious to see your hours played as killer and kill rate stats if you’re willing to share. -
@Wyndsor said:
Camping and tunneling are both acceptable and encouraged by the devs, probably best to just accept it.
Please reference one single example of the devs “encouraging” camping or tunneling
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472465/anticamp-range-needs-an-increase
They tried it and nobody like it.
That’s not true. Players who don’t play killer loved it
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BHVR creating new lobbies with all bots? 🤔
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They already have like 5 times. Time to spend resources on updating some of the other weak killers that have been ignored for years.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
I've been encountering a lot of salt in 2v8 recently when it comes to both killers ganging up on the same survivor in chase.
Just today I had some extremely salty and explicit hatemail after a 2v8 where I'd been rather nicely synced up with my rando killer teammate and helped them end a lot of chases very quickly (stealth nemesis on lery's is pretty lethal) In the past I've had nasty messages for similar reasons and even been cussed out by a streamer on stream and threatened with being reported for it since it's apparently "against the rules" which is of course absolutely nonsense.
I find it weird that people get so mad at this since the shadow class seems tailor made as a support class to jump in on chases.
I'd be interested to hear the forum's opinions on this.
Many players in this game just can’t handle losing like adults. I get double-teamed all the time in 2v8 and I just chuckle when it happens. I think it’s fun to see how long I can last with both killers chasing me. Of course, because teammates in 2v8 are so often completely useless, usually not much gen progress gets done when I’m getting double-teamed, but that is a separate issue 😂
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@GroovieAshes said:
The constant Killer hand holding and power creep has made it so brain dead.
It's constant aura reveal and teleport / traverse., now just beam spam with no looping.
Killing the interactive loop skill or any ability to make good plays.
I've been off Survivor for about a month and play a couple Killer's still.
Perk rework was more trash for Survivor. Who could have seen that coming?
I am always skeptical when I see comments like this because a lot of other people come here and claim that killer side is way too easy, but then when I ask them to show any evidence that they actually play killer or to share recent stats, they never reply, which tells me that many of these people don’t actually play the killer side. I play killer and I certainly don’t feel like it’s “brain dead”. Many of my matches have good to excellent survivor players and are quite challenging. Can you share some of your recent killer stats? I’m curious what killers you play and what your kill rate is.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117879#Comment_4117879
But you go against a thousand copycats.
That's one of the long running problems between general survivor gameplay intentions and general killer gameplay intentions.
Killers tend to be playing to win however possible, Survivors tend to be playing for fun
when you are new to DBD it's much easier to pick up killer than survivor, however when you start running into survivors that have game knowledge then you have trouble as Killer… so tons of killers go to Killer main CCs where people who have tens of thousands of hours on DBD put out builds that are utterly abysmal for survivors to deal with on a regular basis. on the flipside survivor content creators are usually straight up clowning around and oftentimes losing while doing so. JRM is probably the biggest and most consistent example, and one of the first names you'll see if you look up survivor videos, maybe Skerms and Ayrun, Slate, even lesser known clip based survivor creators like Wheelman or Socks and 9/10 times you're tuning in to straight up nonsense like a bubba getting dropped in a hole with a toilet flush sound… I mean in most of those videos I watch the survivor players are dying more than they're living… and they're undeniably very good at the game.
So at "middle MMR" the survivors in games look like a mix of people playing casually, people who just aren't that good but are still trying "meta" builds, and people who are copycatting clown behavior… these are contributing factors to why it feels like people are constantly going against "tryhard" or "sweaty" killers..”Killers tend to be playing to win however possible, Survivors tend to be playing for fun”
This seems like a very biased comment. You have no way of objectively measuring this across the entire player base. Anyone could say the opposite (killers tend to be playing for fun and survivors tend to be playing to win however possible) without any evidence to back it up, and that would be equally valid to your argument because both arguments are subjective and based on no actual data.
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@wingomali said:
i've really cut back the time i've spent playing. solo queue is just so boring because i feel like my skill and performance rarely matter anymore. and by that i mean most matches are just way too easy or not winnable. very few matches feel hard-fought anymore. it's just easy win, or forced loss. the matchmaking system spends literally 10 seconds to throw you and 3 other random solo queue players into a match against a killer on a 500+ winstreak. i mean of course he's going to win. in order for that killer to get a balanced match he'd realistically be stuck in queue for an hour at least.
You’re not regularly getting matched against killers on 500+ winstreaks. This is the same as the myth that killers go up against 4-man SWF comp squads every match.
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@ladybirds said:
Remove Oni and it will be better or make his stupid instadown power way shorter. Instadowns are incredibly boring and take no skill.
I agree Oni is still too strong in 2v8, but I’ve been seeing him way less frequently compared to previous events. Did he finally get nerfed for this one?
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@Wylesong said:
Has anyone noticed the play while you wait que fun bug? If you que as killer and play survivor you lose your spot as killer. The wait time as killer goes from around normally 25ish minutes to in my experience 45 minutes and this has happened everytime. If i want to play killer I cant play survivor and have to wait the long que time as killer so that may be why survivors are hard to find because you cant play as you wait.
This has never happened to me
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2v8 is already very survivor-sided, and Nemesis with only 2 zombies was downright useless. I’ve escaped vs Nemesis plenty of times and I don’t feel like the zombies are overly oppressive. He seems like he’s in a good spot to me.
Have you tried playing as Nemesis in 2v8? I have, and I actually struggled quite a bit. I think you’ll find that he really needs the slowdown of the extra zombies to be viable given how fast gens can fly in 2v8.
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@Mr_Ghostface_ said:
It's no surprise that the majority of the killer updates are buffs and the few ones survivors have are for perks I hardly ever see anyone use. And then they take one of the most popular and beginner friendly perks and absolutely destroy it. Also what the hell is the abandon/ surrender thing because they never explained how it affects points etc
Can you explain how? It’s very easy to make that blanket statement without any explanation of each of the changes and how it they favor killer more than survivor. Without explanation, this seems like a knee-jerk reaction from a survivor-sided point of view.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117611#Comment_4117611
Not one of the most used Perks. Neither of them. Nowhere to Hide also did not get nerfed in this PTB.
Nerfing WoO and claiming it is because of the pickrate is the same level of nonsense like saying that BBQ deserved to be nerfed when it still granted Bonus BPs, since it was the most used Killer Perk. The Perk does nothing unhealthy and yet is on the chopping block because of outcry.
WoO is not “unhealthy” but is it extremely strong and useful, even more so for experienced survivors. I have almost 3,000 and I still use it most of the time. Experienced streamers also use it frequently. It is very much a meta perk, and if we’re trying to shake up the meta, then it deserves a nerf.
However, I do think that nerfing it overly punishes new players who rely heavily on it while they are learning. I would propose giving new players free WoO effect without using a perk slot for the first xx hours of game play. Maybe 500 hours or so? Then the nerf doesn’t punish new players while they are learning, and the perks isn’t too strong for experienced players like it has been for years. I think that’s a very fair trade. -
@Madjura said:
They are doing it again. There's a quest to use 10 tonics. Survivors you unhook don't let you heal them and instead run off in an attempt to find a heal tonic so they can progress the FOMO battlepass. Why would you be interested in playing a game mode where your teammates are actively rewarded by the developers to not help your team at all?
Agree that this is a problem too, but a pretty minor one compared to the others, in my experience
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@bm33 said:
As crogers271 pointed out, you asked last 2v8 about the killer queues being so long, people gave you 2 pages of answers why players were choosing killer over survivor or not playing survivor at all. Since then nothing has changed to improve the survivor experience and encourage players to play the survivor role. Instead of survivor improving its gotten worse. If people didn't just switch roles there's a good chance they left for the new Halloween game or some other game (I've been seeing alot more DBD theme names in my Outlast Trials sleep room). Now when 2v8 comes around we have the same issue as previous 2v8s but an even smaller survivor queue - 1v4 killers go to 2v8 killer while the 1v4 survivors split between 2v8 killer and survivor.
If just looking at 2v8 the invoking salts haven't improved the survivor experience. Yes it's nice survivors got something new but it's a time sink searching chests and placing it only for it to apply to the players in the circle. If anything it's hurting the survivors more than helping. They need to be tweaked so they help the entire team and don't feel like such a selfish time sink.
Killers got a new killer to play with, that is going to draw more people to the killer side than the invoking salts will draw players to the survivor side. You place invoking salts down once, you see in the current state they really aren't that great and need tweaks. Only reason people are continuing to do them is the quests. Killer side if you want to try Xenomorph with every killer thats 14 matches of something new.
Matchmaking prioritizes time, with the huge lack of survivors in 2v8 there is no way the time priority would ever get disabled for a proper matchmaking. BHVR need to find other ways to make survivor more enjoyable so they can atleast have fun before they die. Get more players to play survivor because its fun to play, once there are more playing the survivor role there is a better chance at effectively fixing match making without the time priority ruining it.
New killers to 2v8 don't encourage players to go play survivor, they encourage players to go play killer. Instead of focusing on giving killers more killer options put the focus for a bit instead on more things for the survivors to play with. More classes, more items, tweak the salts to be more useful for entire team. Survivors have been begging for new classes every iteration, in the time they added a handful of killers survivors received 1 new class. There's so many classes they could add: head on class, chem trap class, pebble class, illusion class, boon class, etc. The appeal of playing with a teammate on killer side will continue to make killers have the longer queue even if survivors are the only ones receiving the new stuff for a couple iterations, it would hopefully just make it drop below the 30 minutes its currently sitting at.
I realize that I asked this same question last time we had 2v8, but I’m asking it again because the killer queue times have continued to get worse rather than better. Trying to understand, through consensus opinion in the discussion, why survivor side is so unattractive to play. Based on my own experience and what I’ve read in the comments for this thread, seems like the main core problems are 1) skill mismatch between survivor teammates and survivors vs killer; and 2) not enough new elements added to the survivor side to make it interesting.
#2 is easy enough to address, in theory - devs just need to put resources into it. Not sure how #1 can be solved without any functional matchmaking system. -
@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117296#Comment_4117296
This is 100% why I stopped playing 2v8. In theory this mode should be massively survivor sided. In my experience I escaped more matches in 1v4 compared to the last few iterations that I played of 2v8. I don't think the devs realize how much bad players bring something down in this game. It's not just the whacky casual mode. It's the mode that is awful to play on the survivor side.
The general match quality of 2v8 has gotten lower and lower with each version they have released. I have witnessed personally how the quality of players on the survivor side has declined dramatically. You basically have nothing left but casuals on the survivor side and sweats on the killer side. It's just not worth playing anymore IMO.
I kind of feel the same way. It’s gotten to the point where I think survivor players with at least a little bit of competence are constantly seeing teammates get downed instantly in chase, cleansing totems for no reason, not paying attention and getting grabbed off gens, spending most of the game hiding, etc and deciding that it’s not worth the frustration. It feels to me like a no-win situation because if you add SBMM to 2v8, it’s going to make killer queue times even worse, and if you keep it as-is with no matchmaking, then this problem continues and probably gets worse as we have seen over the past iterations of 2v8 mode. Even if there was some way to add SBMM to 2v8 without negatively affecting queue times, I don’t even trust that to work because it has never worked in 1v4 mode.
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Honestly, even if 100 people all came to this thread and said they have stopped playing and gave their reasons why, it wouldn’t make any difference. The only “voice” that really matters to the devs is player count. As long as that remains historically high, which it still is now, they’re going to keep doing their own thing for the most part. This is why we keep getting changes that nobody asked for while updating older content and frequently requested changes from the community get ignored for years. Devs know they can do basically whatever they want and the players will keep playing and spending money on the game.
blob:https://forums.bhvr.com/13489dd7-ee19-469d-96c7-319342cadcc5 There was an error displaying this embed. -
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117288#Comment_4117288
How about just making people who are unhooked 'ethereal' for fifteen seconds. They can't be seen or interact with the killer during this time or until they preform a conspicuous action. Can't bodyblock but also a guaranteed protection from tunneling.
That’s an interesting idea and I think it’s worth a try
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I play both sides about equally and I’d be fine with some sort of anti-tunnel/anti-camp mechanic, but I have yet to see anything that isn’t overly punishing for killers when they tunnel or camp for legit reason (people who claim you never have to do it are just not being honest or they simply don’t play killer at all). If anyone has any good ideas that aren’t overly-punishing / abusable like the first version that was tried, I’m willing to listen.
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@cammoking123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117222#Comment_4117222
I don’t want the meta shaken up by means of nerfing the top perks into irrelevance. That’s lazy. I want them to buff existing perks and introduce new perks that are actually good.
Ok that’s an option too, but will you apply that to both killer and survivor side then?
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People keep asking for the meta to be shaken up and then we get complaints when it finally gets shaken up. I will say that if some of the top killer perks don’t also get nerfed then you have a valid reason to complain.
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@Lucy_Ford92 said:
I probably am going to get heaps of hate or push back on this subject but I don’t understand how the wraith is allowed to be on 2v8, countless times he has body blocked me up against a gen or cornered me while being “invisible” then hooked me.. or how nemesis has his little zombies running around.. gun slinger with his gun but the plague isn’t allowed to be one of the killer options.. to say she’s OP.. when the ones above I’ve mentioned are OP.. not to mention Weskers being OP. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Uh yeah that’s how Wraith works. He really doesn’t have anything else other than what you just described. Use windows and pallets to counter him.
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@cogsturning said:
I like the idea of being able to place an Invocation where you want. I like that it has no Broken. I think these things should be considered for 1v4 to make these not the worst perks in the game. I also like the visual more.
But in 2v8, I hate them. Probably half my survivor loses can be attributed to these stupid things, with some people doing them repeatedly during the match. It's gotten to where if I find them I dump them in a bush so they can't be seen.
“Probably half my survivor losses can be attributed to these stupid things” - wouldn’t that also be the case if these were in 1v4 mode, especially if you’re solo queue and not coordinating with teammates on comms?
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116746#Comment_4116746
I do wonder if this is for the same reason that they don't make their MMR public or do anything real to combat the most toxic practices in this game, which is that it's so overwhelmingly prevalent that if they crack down on it for real, a very large chunk of the player base will get banned/stop playing… I think the new MMR is no less suspicious than the old MMR for backfilling players into lobbies regardless of their MMR… its suspected they do this because of queue times, likewise they don't take nearly any action for toxicity, I wonder if it's for queue times…
I think it’s more about money. They don’t want to ban players who are spending $ on the game
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@Brimstoneslinger said:
Report the filth
People do report, all the time. The problem is that BHVR rarely does anything with the reports
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The biggest reason that this happens is that BHVR doesn’t take this kind of harassment seriously. People say stuff like that because they know they won’t get banned for it. I’ve reported many people for similar hateful stuff and most of my reports never get responses.
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@wingomali said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116284#Comment_4116284
the typical killer is winning around 60% of their matches. the typical killer is also horrible at the game to the point that camping and tunneling mean very little. the typical killer regularly misses basic attacks. the typical killer is easily mind gamed at every loop in the game. the typical killer uses very little strategy. and yet they're winning 60% of their games.
where am i getting 70% kill rate from is.. well.. if you could read i phrased it as "if you're any good at the game." i didn't say "if you're a typical killer." why did i use 70%? because i don't camp or tunnel (not intentionally) and have above a 75% kill rate on every killer in the game. i also don't consider myself a good killer and thus view this performance as reasonably obtainable by any experienced player.
and again the point is that camping and tunneling, when used by good killers, isn't about breaking even. it's not about winning only 60% or 70% or 80% of your matches. but it's about winning almost all of your matches.
Ok well, I’m not sure how you’re objectively gathering all this data about how the typical killer plays, but if most killers play the way your are describing, then the average survivor player is also equally bad at the game if they are failing to escape in most of their matches against killers who play like this. If “camping and tunneling mean very little” against the average killer, who is horrible at the game and easily mind-games at every loop, then what are you complaining about here? If you’re any good at survivor, then you should be running the killer for multiple gens in every match.
Can you share your total killer playtime and recent kill rate stats? I’d like to know how you are doing compared to your own standard for how a “good” killer player should perform. -
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