esarraf
esarraf
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120963#Comment_4120963
so, now flashlights arent completely useless then right? as you just brought up how they would be used.
feel free to flash me at pallets, your just gonna go down quicker because anyone with good headphones and with decent game sense are going to be immediately on you before the blinds even over. out of the last 100 blinds i have had, with no exaggeration, i have lost maybe 1 or 2 chases fue to pallet blinds.
they are just annoying, and survivors arent helping their escape rates by doing them.
So no, thats not what i said. pay more attention to what i actually say and dont invent things that never were said.
So… your saying that flashlights are only usable for flashlight saves. Wow… if only there were wooden object around the map that could be used instead and were more reliable for saves and didn't take an item slot.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120917#Comment_4120917
Gut? They are more usefull than they used to be. Since hatch no longer spawning at 2-0 gens remaining keys had no reason to exist out of "rat solo q win streaks"
Lol, no the aura reading is so much worse now. I know that for lower skilled players that couldn't keep track of feathering the key it could have been hard to use but you could get so much more value out of reading survivors auras and with the decimation of blood amber it just went to sometimes usable to garbage tier. Like it's only value now is for rats and people doing chest builds. So in short it's just for rats and people who are actively throwing the game. Like it could be such a good item if they just made it a secondary item that you didn't have to drop but any time saved from finding a toolbox or medkit is lost because you have to go back for the key. It's just such a mediocre item that again unless you are planning to rat is only better than maps.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4121078#Comment_4121078
Med-kits are not needed as the healing speed with perks is very quick, tool box is only good with gen rushing builds, fog vieals, maps and keys are just bad.
Flashlight is the only one that can safe teammates (toolbox as well but sabotaging is not the best) which wastes a lot of killers time and disorientate the killer during chase which can waste time if the killer is not very good.
I don't struggle to avoid them but they are the strongest compared to other items
Please tell a bad player like me what's the strongest item is.
Medkits, you don't use them for healing others lol you use them to heal yourself. That saves so much time and makes you less vulnerable. Don't tell me you've only been using medkits to heal others. That's actually hilarious.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120947#Comment_4120947
This would only be balanced if the blind itself lasts only 0.5 to 1 second or less charges, like most people are already bad using sound and it's quite a skill full thing to follow a survivor from sound.
Flashlights definitely don't need a buff in form of an add-on, it's the strongest survivor item already.
HA wow you are bad at this game if you think flashlights are the strongest.
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Bro you aren't cooking. All you got is flour, don't even bother with the Trapper.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120908#Comment_4120908
You are treating something rng based, chests, as a sure fire thing. If you manage to get four or five flashy saves those killers were not going to be winning with or without the saves. Better killers don't get flashy saved against that often, especially not in a single match.
You are unlikely to get a map from chests via scout, the key guarantees a rare or greater item and so does the subsequent rummage. That leaves just the singular possibility of the annotated map and I've literally never seen one in a chest to the point I suspect they are bugged to not appear, you are far more likely to get a rare+ medkit, toolbox, flashlight, or key than a map.
Okay and you are treating something rng based (everyone being extremely dumb and not knowing where gens are) as a sure fire thing. Like I know we all love to joke about soloq teammates drinking lead paint or whatever but everyone whose played this game for more than a couple of hours will understand gen layout.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120940#Comment_4120940
Thats not what i said.
It kinda is? You literally said that it's better to not use it at pallets. AKA the only time it's usable besides a flashlight save.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I would not be opposed to buffing flashlights somehow, but I also feel like this would be used primarily for blinding at pallets, which is the most no-skill, low effort way to use them. It might be petty of me, but I don't like the idea of rewarding low-skill plays.
Maybe have an add-on like this but the effect (maybe stronger, even) triggers only after a successful flashlight save.
Okay, so how would you be able to use flashlights skillfully? It takes an extremely long time to blind so the only time a survivor can do it is when the killer is locked in an animation which means windows, pallets, and picking up a survivor. We could bring back insta blinds so flashlights could be used outside of these three scenarios but most killers won't like that.
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@HexSlugged said:
if flashlights were made even more annoying than they ar then ill just use lightborn. you know what would help survs more? not wasting time at every pallet blinding a killer who is using the majority of the blind period on a breaking animation so by the time the blind is over your 2 feet in front of me. youd be 5 feet ahead otherwise
So… you acknowledge that flashlights are useless and aren't really usable at pallets but don't want them buffed for some reason?
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Still hate that they gutted keys.
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@ThatRyanB said:
I think one of the important things to remember here is that when it comes to a given perk's perception, the situation is rarely binary. Not only are Killer and Survivor perspectives equally valuable, but different experience levels, different preferred playstyles, and many other factors can impact feedback. So just to be clear, I appreciate the different POVs here. It's not lost on me that there's a lot of debate about WoO, so just know that we've been noting it down and sharing with the team.
Is there any reason why for the killer meta shakeup they got new strong perks that are worth being in the meta while survivors got nothing of note and only had meta perks removed?
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120843#Comment_4120843
I have managed to do the double heal with a random other medic multiple times, all it takes is two players that know it's possible and paying attention to who the other medics are. Obviously it is easier on comms and a major reason my duo and I were usually both running medic.
@topic
I found the items to be fine but definately the most boring thing they could have done. I do really dislike the salts and how they and the items made chests so much less useful. My personal desire for a survivor class is something that interacts with protection hits.
On team setup I would go 2 guide, 3 medic, 3 scout, with maybe dropping a medic for a fourth scout. Medics I don't feel need a major explanation, faster heals, aoe heal, no scratches, all just good.
I think guides are good for two things. The first is finding and bringing other survivors to the important gens to complete, early these will usually be around the middle and later it's finding out of the way gens. The second is using blastmine on these important generators to allow survivors to get away and not chase around them, better to give the killer aura and have them commit to a chase in a bad area. Two seems like it's enough to accomplish this and the rest of their powers don't feel strong enough to warrant more.
Lots of scouts because pallets get broken quite quickly and not every map actually has a ton of them. RPD in particular has a decent number of god pallets but not a ton of pallets overall and only a couple good windows. This map feels killer sided in 2v8 unless the survivor team is regularly rebuilding pallets, RPD with a lot of scouts becomes survivor sided in my opinion. The regular aura read also means you have a better idea how safe it is to stick a gen. On top of all that, the fixated and iron will can be excellent in chase especially alongside the lingering aura read
I think escapist is simultaneous frustrating to face but wildly overrated. A decent number of killer powers can fairly easily outplay the SB and as has already been mentioned the killer can ignore these survivors. The best use for escapist is saves but that usually means they need to trade a flashlight with a torchbearer (at which point you have arguably the worst class on your team) or you need to find one in a chest. I can still see one being useful for the occasional SB chase intervention.
Escapists can also just go to one of the many chests that scouts open. In my duo they easily get me a flashlight most matches and I can reliably get 4~5 saves a match because of it. Normally ends up with the killers sticking together like glue but that again just means we win.
Also you kinda glossed over the fact that the maps scouts will get from chests negates the main strength of guide.
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Lol and risk making flashlights usable? Never gonna happen.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120778#Comment_4120778
The short answer on Guides is process of elimination. The medium length answer is that the other classes tend to take away from each other in a way the Guide doesn't. The long answer follows by working through the classes:
Medics - I think medics are the most important class, not having any is very bad for the team. 2 is the minimum, 3 is ideal as it gives a good map spread and makes the double burst insta heal more realistic to pull of. I think 4 is unnecessary and now medics are just running into each other doing heals instead of other important objectives.
So for medics I think there should be 2 to 3, with 3 being ideal.
Escapists - I really don't think they are that good, though two points on how I play.
1: I've never been a windows player, so I don't find it particularly changes much.
2: As killer, I don't chase the escapists. I just ignore them and focus on the classes that can actually do things. So the 'waste killer time' point only works if the killer falls for it.
The more general point is that sprint burst can't stack. If you have multiple escapists in the same area they aren't helping each other. One is plenty, two is possible but I don't think worthwhile, and the games I played were no one was escapist was some of the stronger survivor teams.
Additionally, because I believe in a lot of medics, this really tunes down the value of the self-heal that they get. If you have few medics the value of being the escapist jumps.
So 1 escapist, with zero or two being okay.
Scouts - These are a strong role, but the pallet rebuild has two issues.
1: Its strength is subjective to the killer duo that is faced on how much pallets work against them
2: Time commitment
Usually the ideal pallet(s) to rebuild are a little out of the way, meaning the Scout has to take time from doing the other tasks (gens/rescues/heals) to go rebuild.
Then you have the issues of the starting keys. Scouts should be opening all the chests they find, basically for toolboxes so other survivors can speed through gens (though a backup medkit or something else isn't a bad thing either). Anymore than two scouts though and this just becomes unnecessary as the Scouts will likely find more keys while opening chests.
In my experience I think the strongest part of Scout is being the time waster in chases. They are less obvious to killers, and the lingering aura read makes them strong loopers.
Thus I think at least one Scout is necessary, two is better, three is okay but not as strong. It is pretty funny though to be in a game with a lot of Scouts and just having infinite pallets.
Guides - So by process of elimination, we've now used up somewhere between 4 and 6 of the possible 8 slots we have, leaving Guides as the remaining. However, even beyond process of elimination, I think Guides are a strong role that stacks really well.
First, on its own, giving how much harder it is tracking gens, it can be useful to spot a gen near the end game that others might be overlooking. This can literally be the difference between an easy trial and the survivors throwing themselves against a pair of defending killers.
Second, the aura read it provides to other survivors is really important as in 2v8 vs 1v4 pairing up on gens is the better tactic given how strong gen regression can be.
Third, I think Blast Mine is pretty great for a few reasons. One, it provides the time waster/get away from gens in much the same way as an Escapist. Two, it breaks up the flow of killers who are working together as one gets stunned. Three, if you have a lot of Guides, killers have to start thinking over whether they want to kick a gen or not. This can be useful as it now allows survivors to stealth near a gen instead of just running away and might keep gens that aren't even blast mined safe. Fourth, it provides the Guide info, if they go do something else (likely a save) and the blast mine goes off, they now have info on a killer's location.
Fourth overall reason, they get their power from doing what they are supposed to be doing. The escapist is reliant upon the killer chasing them, the Scout has to trade off other objective time for rebuild, the Guide recovers their power while doing the thing they are meant to do (kind of like the medic).
Fifth, the toolboxes they have now are not a huge change, but can make the difference between popping an early critical gen and finishing the last gen of the game.
Counterpoint, healing is far less important from medics thanks to blue tonics and with the addition of survivors starting with items creating a plethora of medkits from chests. Also there's the simple fact that you aren't going to be able to get a double heal burst off with no communication, I'm sorry but that just is not happening with no communication in the game. So while yes in a vacuum three medics are good, in solo q reality they simply aren't that vital compared to escapist and scout.
Escapists are good for the reason you've stated. You don't chase them meaning you aren't pressuring vital gens because you instantly give up chase or need the other killer to support your lack of chase ability. This means that survivors are able to get free gens done with no risk. Having three people that are cranking out gens because the killers won't touch them means that gens will be flying and since scouts are the stealthy class who can more easily avoid chases you are forced between trying to find a bunch of hidden people or waste time with escapists and commit to them. You also are vitally forgetting their unlock ability. Self heal at 70% is extremely fast and importantly does not need another survivor to waste time on you. In fact it's more efficient to not have another person healing you.
Scouts meanwhile like you said is bad to run across the map to reset a pallet but if you have three then odds are one of them will be in the area and can easily reset a pallet. Furthermore a lot of killers can and will eat through pallets, but also survivors who don't greed pallets and just use them all will burn through a lot but also stay up forever unless chased by both killers. I can count on one hand the number of times I get downed by a killer solo in this game mode. (Excluding nurse because nurse ######### sucks) Scouts let survivors play like this the whole match.
Now lets break down some of your reasons for guide.
Finding gens is not important due to scout. They open up chests a lot and you'll find a few maps that can cover that easily so that's a moot point. The aura reading is nice but also requires the gen to not be regressing which if you've played this game you know killers will just kick first then chase due to how fast regression is.
Third blast mine while annoying is just a few seconds and you need to pray that the killers will kick the gen at the right time, something you have no control over and likewise does nothing at the very end of the game where escapists, scouts, and medics all have abilities that can result in otherwise impossible saves happening. In the event both killers are together like you said then the survivors already won. Killers who stay together the whole match will lose assuming the survivors aren't throwing simply because they can't apply pressure properly and in such a scenario the escapist class gets even more powerful due to being able to juke both killers easily.
Fourth… I guess that's valid? I can't argue against the fact you need to do gens to escape but I'll counter with escapists and scouts are well suited for playing for hatch in the event things go south where as medics and guides are in a much tougher spot relying far more on luck.
Fifth, I'd argue it's more of a detriment popping an early gen faster. It's better having people work on a wider amount of gens at the same time simply because it means the slowdown does not proc until the gens done. A lot of people like you said waste their toolboxes mindlessly on the first gen applying a harsher slowdown that will slow the game down.
In short guide is not good for a variety of reasons and I would argue that it's on par with lightbringer in the value they bring.
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Gotta ask, why would Guides be worthwhile at all? They do literally nothing besides lol blastmine. Ideally you'd have 3 escapists, 3 scouts, and 2 medics. Escapists are extremely good at wasting killers time and getting saves. Scouts are needed for pallets in the late game and having 3 is plenty, while medics can theoretically be broken from their aoe heal in a chase this would require a swf to be realistically strong since you just aren't going to have that level of coordination in soloq. Still their increased healing speed makes them great for saves.
Also yeah Torchbearers need massive buffs if I see more than one in the lobby I'll typically dodge just because of how awful they are.
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Wow, can't believe it. No I literally can't believe it, did you buy a new copy just to do this? Lol that's hilarious.
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Yikes, current up the ante is more useful than that. No offense but you fundamentally misunderstand the game so badly if you think that perk is worth running that it's debatable on whether or not you are even physically capable of coming up with a good idea.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114534#Comment_4114534
I ran it every game since it's out. Those all 300 games that make it not the least picked perk was just me.
Lol try lying better man, no one is running that trash.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120701#Comment_4120701
You can't be serious. Even a juiced toolbox can't make up for the time wasted traveling to and opening chests and it's a 1/6 gamble that you'll even get a toolbox.
I remember when Streetwise was bugged and I charged some absolutely juiced toolboxes and other items but it didn't increase my or my team's survivability due to the time wasted searching for and charging up items. It sure was fun though.
Better to bring a Commodious Toolbox with charge addons and recharge it with Built to Last.
If chest builds are to be made viable they need to give survivors buffs for opening chests.
Then pair it with scavanger. The point is that having a really good toolbox and being able to apply pressure rapidly to a vital gen is extremely valuable. Don't get me wrong, you do have a point and I think they should remove like 75% of the junk items from the game because of how much their existence ruins chest builds. But being able to get a commodious toolbox with potentially over a hundred charges would be insane value.
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@ForTheEntity said:
It'd be a crap perk even without that 5% hinder. With the hinder it's just a throw the match perk.
No this is actually a really good perk that'd make chest builds viable. Pair it with streetwise for an extra 40% then throw on ace in the hole and you would have an absolutely juiced toolbox.
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@BruceCampbell said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119661#Comment_4119661
Nops.
Stake Out made it incredibly easy to get and keep 6 tokens of Hyperfocus.
Sometimes I do bring Hyperfocus on trials BY ITSELF just for the challenge of getting 6 tokens.Lol hyperfocus was a great perk that encouraged better diversity. It was extra strong against the most powerful killers in the game while weaker against stealth killers. It sucks that the devs yet again bend over backwards to help blight and ghoul players.
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Yeah sole survivor kinda had it's niche destroyed. TBH all this will do is make rat teammates more useless. It's kinda laughable that people still have not learned from how they changed distortion. You can't force people to take chase, people who were going to rat but were at least doing stuff are now just gonna hide in lockers more lol. Making sole survivor useless won't fix that, it only makes the situation worse.
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That'd might make it barely usable. So not gonna happen, only game throwing perks allowed.
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It'd be a good start but still the two perks need massive buffs to be viable.
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Sorry but that'd increase the rating to M. It'd be too indecent.
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Hit validation being killer sided, like gosh dang it we have dedicated servers now? Why are things worse than when it was peer to peer?
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@Skillfulstone said:
The change to WoO is just a bad idea overall. It also feels anti-newcomer.
The perk isn't the most used Survivor perk because it's overpowered, it's the most used Survivor perk because it makes the game slightly less miserable and utterly random for newcomers/casuals who don't know the pallet spawns by heart. It makes the game feel like a game and not a gamble for beginners/casuals.
Not everyone has the time or the patience to learn and remember the spawns on every maps, not with how many maps and variants there are, a number that will only grow over time.
Only showing the windows is basically useless outside of indoor maps since there's also very little randomness to most window spawns, they are usually static (shack, main buildings & larger tiles) which makes the perk a waste.
Furthermore, WoO made it so that people could learn the maps so that eventually they could play without it. It was beginner-friendly and, more importantly, it took a single perk slot, so that help still took 25% of your build. If the changes go through, Five Move Ahead will be needed alongside WoO to have the same effect… twice the grind and half the build for beginners to get a basic layout of their surroundings.
Furthermore, WoO gave SoloQ a weaker version of something that SWF have normally: The ability to know when key areas are no longer safe. A SWF can tell each other when key pallets are broken without having to go there while in chase (and likely giving a free hit/down since there's no more pallet). It helped close an information gap to a small degree (as a SWF have no distance limit to that knowledge while WoO is not map-wide) and now BHVR wants to get rid of it. Isn't closing the gap between SWF and SoloQ something that people want? A lot of QOL changes were made in the name of closing that gap, why go two steps back now?
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the change, there's literally no positive outcome from making WoO irrelevant. All it will achieve is making the game (as Survivor) much harder to learn and play for beginners & casuals, and the queue times speak for themselves on what people like to play more already.
I guess they want to make maps actually usable? It's good because this means survivors can dodge new players easier by seeing that they are bringing a map. Before new players could bring windows but with this change they have managed to increase lobby dodging several folds or make it that any new player will die instantly. Such a great change that anyone with even the smallest amount of thought could see coming.
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To be honest I don't really remember. So many good people just got banned for the tiniest things over the years that were pillars of the community just to be silenced by the mods. It sucks that they power trip so hard but they are better than discord mods I guess.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120010#Comment_4120010
That is not true. Paired with Champion is really decent to hinder killers by forcing them to look down. Also pretty add on dependant. I think 45s isn't enough as if you blind killer and don't go down in those 30-45s it won't do anything. Blindness disable ability to see gens which killer will memorize, hooks that killer can still visually see. So it will be mostly useless unless killer drops a chase.
Yeah this was semi doable before diminishing returns because of fixated but it's not exactly hard for the killer to counter. It's just not usable against a lot of the killers people go against since they crippled flashlights years ago.
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Ehh the issue is that the killers you need to blind the most, Judgement, the First, and of course Nurse all ignore pallets and windows so you can't really blind them with the flashlight. So it's a perk that's mostly unusable against some of the strongest killers in the game.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119409#Comment_4119409
But Scavenger is whole different story because it punishes you for hitting greats. You need 5 to replenish toolbox which is already a lot and for that you get 30s of almost double amount of wretched fate debuff. So for skilled performance you get punished.
Not trying to be rude but you really don't understand how toolboxes and gen builds work. The slower repair speed is a really good thing for survivors because that means you go through it slower which in turn means more skill checks for stuff like hyperfocus and bardic. If you understand how the game works it's actually a really good thing for repair speed. It's still not good because it requires five great skill checks which are rng based and you can simply never get enough until it's really late in the game or the games just over.
Regardless, needing a lot of good luck as well as putting yourself in an extremely vulnerable position for a mid payoff is not a great choice for a perk. Like sitting on the generator when you can easily get one tapped is not a great decision from a survivors perspective outside of dire situations as it can easily cost you the game from being easily downed.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119419#Comment_4119419
It's okay, finishing a generator solo in 45 seconds is totally normal.
Someone dedicating their whole build to generators is good at generators. Next you'll tell me that a killer who dedicates their whole build to gen slowdown is good at slowing down generators.
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My guy, I really like your post and I agree with your idea of "A Killer requiring mechanical skill does not automatically justify unlimited reward once that skill has been mastered."
However I recommend you work on brevity, few people on this forum has the attention span to read through all this. I think you are right that high mobility killers are problematic for a variety of reasons and think they should be reexamined. However this just is not going to happen even if you are right. The devs clearly don't care about balancing as shown by the latest PTB. Next time you make a post about something I'd just keep it brief because it's not worth the energy to scream into the void.
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Dude forgot that it requires five skill checks to appear. The perks bad enough, if you lost to someone running this it's a major skill issue on your end, not the perk.
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@Elan said:
I agree that killer side got new refreshing meta contenders whil survivors got one single perk that might see some use and that's Road Life and it's still not known whether it won't be nerfed to live.
I don't even think Road Life will be that good tbh. Four skill checks is a lot, there's a reason no one really uses Scavanger.
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Survivors got nothing of note and some nerfs. It was a disgrace and just looks like the devs are trying to make the survivor experience even worse as many of the perks they destroyed now can't be used in soloq or were only good in solo q.
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@Countrydoge said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/07LRGMJ0NHCN/image.png
Looks like I can't edit my discussion, so I'll be updating the perk in the comments.
Update 1: Removed the downside where you lose 1 token after you get hooked.Looks good, I think the 16 seconds of haste may also be a bit too strong but eh playing with a dead perk that requires a bunch of effort to get value from should be worth it. Either way I think this is a great perk now.
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Solid work, end game perks should be extremely impactful and this is looking like it could be without being overpowered since it requires you to do a lot of gen progress. However it's incentives are awful as it makes it so whoever runs this perk will avoid chases at all costs due to losing a token on being hooked. I'd remove that downside since getting three whole gens is already a massive task and with the limit of only ever being able to get six tokens this means you'll never see any of the effects for five or six tokens unless it's a curb stomp match which… I don't like the idea of making a perk that is only effective against killers who are really bad at the game.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119145#Comment_4119145
I have teammates that die in 15s. Data mean nothing.
Oh is this like… an ego thing for you? I mean you do you buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119134#Comment_4119134
Killers are not easy. :D They brought a lot of big licenses thus a lot of new killer players and designed new killers more accessible to begginers, so they can play casual and not invest 1000hrs to master one. That's why community has voices on both sides.
Dude we have numerical evidence to show they are easy that's why they get a 60% kill rate.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119127#Comment_4119127
Good. 60+ % is exactly where it should be.
Sure that's not my point. The point is that instead of the devs basing kill rates on the objectively fair 50/50 the game is literally designed to make it so killers win more often than not. I'm not interested in saying it's wrong for the devs to make killer super easy because that's an opinion. I just want to know why so many killers have issue with the fact that their role is extremely easy due to the devs literally rigging the game in their favor.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119044#Comment_4119044
There are too many rng based situations to dictate who's favor is the game in.
Uh… hate to break it to you but we have literal numbers from the devs showing that the game is heavily biased towards killers and it's not even close. The average kill rate is above 60% and like sure the devs intentionally balance this way but let's not pretend that killer is not easy.
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Yikes, I did not realize how much they destroyed this perk. 24 meters is incredibly small, you'll be lucky to get more than two tokens a game for a perk that really does not give all that much and could easily nuke a gen.
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@Nazzzak said:
One thing I've noticed is that the killer perk updates are rightfully based on killer feedback, such as helping M1s catch up to a degree with more recent map traversing killers. And I think that's great, it's what should be done. But then I look at the survivor perk updates and it doesn't feel like it's based on survivor feedback, but rather based on addressing killer pain points with regards to survivor gameplay. I don't see survivor voices in any of this. It feels like there is a whole missing subset of feedback. I'm frankly not surprised at the ridiculous queue times anymore. I'm not sure where the feedback to the devs is being filtered through but a lot seems to be getting left out.
I think this perfectly summarizes how I feel too. None of the major issues survivors have are being addressed and many of them are only getting worse. It's like the devs are intentionally ignoring survivor issues since if they did things randomly then sometimes it'd benefit survivors. Right now none of the perk reworks are particularly interesting or all that usable outside of extremely niche builds. Many of the changes don't fix the issues with the perk design or just make them totally unusable. It's like there's not a single survivor on the dev team and at this point I can only assume it's because ignoring the survivor playerbase is somehow making them more money.
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@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
I may be one of the few people who believe this - but STBFL + Dark arrogance is actually a non-broken combo. Yes it does offer a 52.5% faster recovery - but that is ONLY a single second. Honestly - I'd be in favor or buffing/reworking STBFL to go from 5% for 6/7/8 tokens to 5/6/7% for 8 tokens.
Even then - the cooldown would not honestly change that much (about a 1/4 of a second). If paired Dark Arrogance then that would then be about a 1 second cooldown, but at that point, you are dedicating 2 perks for M1 recovery that could otherwise be used for gen defense or for zoning (IE bamboozle, pain res, pop goes weasel, light borne, etc)
Yeah that single second actually makes a massive difference for some killers.
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@Arcturus said:
A lot of people on the forums, including me, have been asking for 5 chests in every trial for these niche perks and builds. I think it would be a great change for them, and simultaneously BHVR could get rid of all coin addons to remove bloodweb clutter.
Coins should 100% stay. Like, even if everyone brings a purple coin you aren't going to get more value from a chest build than you are from just bringing a normal build.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118960#Comment_4118960
That's difference. Undetectable is not op, elusive is. Killer is one player, survivors are group of 4. They should have perks with minor effects and killer should have the big gamechanging ones.
Hahaha no. Undetectable is extremely powerful on certain killers who don't have loud footsteps. As someone else mentioned, bubba being able to chainsaw you instantly with no way to know they are coming is a very powerful move. Free damage you otherwise would not get is very powerful.
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@Artimenius1307 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118928#Comment_4118928
Partially, you are correct. Last gen is the highest stakes state of the game and thus feels much more important in terms of defending.
However, you are wrong in thinking this is related to current discussion of pain res. The 18s of regression pain res provides are absolutely equal whether used at 5 gens or 1 gen. The 18s at 5 gens might as well be "18 seconds before survivors move to the crucial last gen".
And the bigger factor, is that it's not last gen that gives pain res bigger value. It's the 1v3 condition which gives it bigger value. But even still, ANY regression perk gets much bigger value in 1v3 scenario, this is not pain res exclusive. So it's not the design of the perk, it's the wide gap of 1v4 and 1v3.
As I said before, don't nerf the perk because it helps unhealthiest strategy, nerf the strategy itself or buff the healthiest one, spreading hooks.
Again no that's just not how the game works. It's much harder for survivors to get progress on the last gen because it's the last gen. The killer only has three places to protect and thus it's much easier to interrupt and stop survivors on gens. Likewise resources are going to be depleted and make it much harder for survivors to do the final gen safely. Finally if you do tunnel it requires almost perfect teamwork from the survivors to do. The last generator matters far more because of this and any gen regression or slowdown matters far more.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118885#Comment_4118885
Well, if you say then I guess that nothing is issue on killer side either. :)
Tell you what. When the devs add in the ability to see who the killer is and add perks that totally negate their powers I'll agree with you Elan. Until then just use lightborn or learn how to deal with flashlights.
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@Artimenius1307 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118886#Comment_4118886
Yeah no. Current design neither encourages nor discourages tunneling/not tunneling. It's a simple gen regression perk. Disabling it after someone dies simply will, as I said before, make people replace it with another perk. This is not a solution to the tunneling, this is a suggestion to nerf perk instead of addressing the core issue. Do you really think nerfing pain res this way will affect tunneling in the slightest?
What really doesn't encourage not tunneling, is the game itself like lmao can we start suggesting actual benefits for spreading hooks? Right now there are none of them, spreading hooks, the healthiest strategy for the game, is also the worst one for killers to use
… No, regression on the last generators matter far more than the first few. The only generator that matters is the last one and by making the last one or few harder to get through that provides far more value than slowing down the first few generators. I am sorry if this sounds patronizing but this is rudimentary gameplay flow that you should understand if you want to look knowledgeable.