Skillfulstone
Skillfulstone
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The change to WoO is just a bad idea overall. It also feels anti-newcomer.
The perk isn't the most used Survivor perk because it's overpowered, it's the most used Survivor perk because it makes the game slightly less miserable and utterly random for newcomers/casuals who don't know the pallet spawns by heart. It makes the game feel like a game and not a gamble for beginners/casuals.
Not everyone has the time or the patience to learn and remember the spawns on every maps, not with how many maps and variants there are, a number that will only grow over time.
Only showing the windows is basically useless outside of indoor maps since there's also very little randomness to most window spawns, they are usually static (shack, main buildings & larger tiles) which makes the perk a waste.
Furthermore, WoO made it so that people could learn the maps so that eventually they could play without it. It was beginner-friendly and, more importantly, it took a single perk slot, so that help still took 25% of your build. If the changes go through, Five Move Ahead will be needed alongside WoO to have the same effect… twice the grind and half the build for beginners to get a basic layout of their surroundings.
Furthermore, WoO gave SoloQ a weaker version of something that SWF have normally: The ability to know when key areas are no longer safe. A SWF can tell each other when key pallets are broken without having to go there while in chase (and likely giving a free hit/down since there's no more pallet). It helped close an information gap to a small degree (as a SWF have no distance limit to that knowledge while WoO is not map-wide) and now BHVR wants to get rid of it. Isn't closing the gap between SWF and SoloQ something that people want? A lot of QOL changes were made in the name of closing that gap, why go two steps back now?
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the change, there's literally no positive outcome from making WoO irrelevant. All it will achieve is making the game (as Survivor) much harder to learn and play for beginners & casuals, and the queue times speak for themselves on what people like to play more already.
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I'll miss most people here too. Apart from a few bad apples, conversations were much more stable and civil here than in other social platforms.
Discord isn't meant for large-scale discussion like that, and it's even harder to moderate, and getting doxxed on Discord over disagreements is already a thing known to happen.
Reddit is a toxic cesspool of trolls and spam, basically no conversations last more than a few replies before veering completely off-topic. Not to mention the fact that relevant topics and feedback get buried by spam and complain-threads in record time.
Steam forums is a nothing-burger that doesn't have a lot of consistent and dedicated users. It's not as toxic as Reddit (it's hard to be) but there won't be known figures and "forum events" that stay remembered for long.
I won't create accounts just to move to platforms that I won't want to use for anything else, I guess that like many others, it's the last place I'll interact with the community outside of the game
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I doubt they are, the Killer queue times wouldn't be so horrible if they were.
Around 30 minutes in 2v8.
Around 10 minutes in 1v4.
With unmarked bots, queue times wouldn't go past 5-7 minutes.
Honestly, as sad as it sounds, BHVR really shouldn't make any 2v8 quests Killer-exclusive, there's already enough Killers without adding the completionists that wouldn't bother with wasting half an hour for a ten-minutes (very generous estimate) match otherwise.
Although, if they don't go back on the WoO destruction, it's not unreasonable to assume a lot of Survivor players, mostly casuals, SoloQ players & newcomers, will play Survivor less. And unmarked bots in the future might not be too far-fetched if the numbers go too far in one direction.
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The change to WoO is just a bad idea overall. It also feels anti-newcomer.
The perk isn't the most used Survivor perk because it's overpowered, it's the most used Survivor perk because it makes the game slightly less miserable and utterly random for newcomers/casuals who don't know the pallet spawns by heart. It makes the game feel like a game and not a gamble for beginners/casuals.
Not everyone has the time or the patience to learn and remember the spawns on every maps, not with how many maps and variants there are, a number that will only grow over time.
Only showing the windows is basically useless outside of indoor maps since there's also very little randomness to most window spawns, they are usually static (shack, main buildings & larger tiles) which makes the perk a waste.
Furthermore, WoO made it so that people could learn the maps so that eventually they could play without it. It was beginner-friendly and, more importantly, it took a single perk slot, so that help still took 25% of your build. If the changes go through, Five Move Ahead will be needed alongside WoO to have the same effect… twice the grind and half the build for beginners to get a basic layout of their surroundings.
Furthermore, WoO gave SoloQ a weaker version of something that SWF have normally: The ability to know when key areas are no longer safe. A SWF can tell each other when key pallets are broken without having to go there while in chase (and likely giving a free hit/down since there's no more pallet). It helped close an information gap to a small degree (as a SWF have no distance limit to that knowledge while WoO is not map-wide) and now BHVR wants to get rid of it. Isn't closing the gap between SWF and SoloQ something that people want? A lot of QOL changes were made in the name of closing that gap, why go two steps back now?
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the change, there's literally no positive outcome from making WoO irrelevant. All it will achieve is making the game (as Survivor) much harder to learn and play for beginners & casuals, and the queue times speak for themselves on what people like to play more already.
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Pet peeve...
I'll keep away from things that relate to bugs/game health/balance because otherwise this could be an essay.
One of my biggest pet peeve is that Killer licensed skins (entirely different characters, like Birkin, AoT skins, Rize, Look-See etc.) and most Ascended skins don't have special Mori animations.
Even the Attack Titan skin, which was already on mobile AND had a special Mori back then, has no Mori animation and not even exclusive SFX… it feels cheap for the price.
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@Wezqu said:
Its disconnection it does not matter why it happens as there is noway of knowing on server side why your connection stopped responding. They all get penaltized. Only one that does not is if server goes down as that they know what happened.
Still that message means that host closed the connection because it did not get respond from your connection and so it timed out. Its a problem between you and the server its not Behavior's fault if the connection is lost.
Usually I would agree, even if I think the system has no place in a game as unstable as DBD even in normal times, but there's recently been a massive uptick in crashes due to the Denuvo trial (there's threads about it) and it's causing a lot of people to get hit with undeserved penalties due to how the penalty system works.
Since those issues have popped up and been reported for several days with basically radio silence from BHVR, I can only assume that they are under some kind of contractual obligation to fully go through with the Denuvo trial and can't cancel it. They usually crack down on crashes rather quickly (like the flashlights recently being able to crash the Killer's game when used during a hooking animation, that was fixed in a timely manner).
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Yeah same, honestly the game lost most of its fun to me since the mmr reset.
I'm usually the kind of Killer player that goes for 8 hooks then chill/farm/meme unless I have an achievement/quest that demands kills or if the Survivors were a bully squad... I just can't do that anymore because I can barely touch the Survivors I go against without sweating bullets and using strats that I don't want to use. Most of my games I can barely get 3 hooks, and forget about using funky builds.
The worst part is that 8-hooks no kills will still propel my mmr up now, which means it'll just get worse. I'll keep at it for a couple weeks, but if it doesn't get better then it's gonna be it for me, Sunk-Cost fallacy be damned.
It really saddens me because I've played this game since around when Myers came out, but now I can't have fun. After a day of work, I don't want to keep working. The system we had wasn't perfect, but it was better than now.
And that's when the game doesn't crash since the last update.
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It's not just PC.
I'm mostly play on Series X (I play on my partner's PC for PTB purposes) and since the latest patch I've gotten sudden crashes, more often while playing as Killer for some reason.
I've always hated the change they made to how DC penalties work due to how the game was already more prone to crashes than many games (or cheaters that are literally capable of crashing the server at-will) and just yesterday I got my first unjustified DC penalty after a few crash-to-dashboard. During a Judgement game (going for achievements/quests then no longer dealing with barf-inducing spins again) I just rolled my eyes after the crash and decided to switch to Survivor after a few hours of break... and when I pressed ready after logging back on I got the matchmaking ban notification which doesn't go down until you press ready.
Yeah I'm not touching Killer until that nonsense is fixed somehow. It takes 20 games to go back one "Milestone" of penalty, and after a day of work, I don't have the patience or time to wait for no justifiable reason after a random crash within 20 games that creates increasingly longer bans that don't reset by just not playing.
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Judgement has all the factors which can reduce pickrate.
4.4m/s
Power has an insane skill floor and skill ceiling, which means that Judgement players are essentially divided into "Unstoppable" and "Clip-farmer's dream" with almost nothing in-between.
Power is incredibly difficult to get used to, especially on controller where flicks are harder.
Power requires to constantly do swift 180 degrees turns in order to be used in chase, which makes it downright barf-inducing for people with motion-sickness.
Not a licensed Killer which could mitigate the other factors.
Low perk build diversity since her kit doesn't focus on chases and doesn't really use hooks and Judgement is 4 meters tall and is a walking neon sign which makes stealth near impossible in outdoor maps. Which boils down viable builds to aura and Hex builds.
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I'm honestly a bit bummed about it because I usually don't really play to win and even regularly help Survivors get a few dumb achievements that are nearly impossible to get normally. I usually hooked everyone twice and then turned friendly unless I felt otherwise, am going for an achievement/challenge or the Survivors were a bully squad.
With this change, farming/not sweating & 8-hooking will rocket up the MMR, where I just won't have fun anymore since no one wants to chill at higher MMR and I ain't 8-hooking with 0 kills pros with Nemesis. This applies to every Killer Players that are chill, or at least wanted to be chill.
Side-note. Making it so kills & escape aren't the main components will lock team-slugging Killers (no hooks, absolutely miserable experience) with casual/new players since even if they bleed everyone out every games they won't go up the MMR ladder which means they will never end up against players that will be able to deal with it. Making the new player experience even worse than before.
Hopefully my worries end up being unfounded though, or maybe I'll just have to accept that the days of 8 hooks & 0 kills are over.
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Given that IllFonic and GUN Interactive are involved with the Halloween game (both of which were involved, together or separately, in F13th game, TCM game, Predator Hunting Grounds) and that IllFonic has a reputation for making games that are quick licensed cash-grabs with no intention of long-term support, the Halloween game will fail in about a year or two when the devs made their money and the license holders will come crawling back to BHVR.
It's not a matter of if, just a matter of when.
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4.4 m/s
No built-in info.
No map mobility option.
Punishing power on a miss.
Literally needs to do swift 180 degrees spins in order to use the power in loops, otherwise the beam will often not hit due to most loops being a little too small and the beam will not "activate" in time.
Side-note: the above point also makes this Killer an accessibility nightmare for people with motion-sickness, just watching gameplay was uncomfortable for me. Not only is it completely ridiculous, but it is very difficult on M&K, I can only imagine how nearly impossible it will be on controller if not changed.
Exile is a cooler, slightly better and less boring version of Pyramid Head's Cages of Torment with a minigame that is essentially impossible to lose unless the Survivor willingly loses and their teammates never free them. Nice to bypass flashlight/pallet saves and a temporary buff but also voids hook perks.
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No, this Killer is not "op" by any means, at least not in the hands of the average player. In fact, due to the insane skill floor and ridiculousness of having to spin around with pinpoint accuracy to use the power in loops, I'd argue that unless BHVR does some major QOL improvements to make the gameplay not barf-inducing and controller-viable, this Killer will be played for the Adept and the visual design before being forgotten by most due to simply being too complex to use.
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Well...
If every time you get "server error" is when you were winning/carrying/just downed someone as Killer, then it's very possible a hacker crashed the server on purpose (because yes they can do that, happened to me a few times and your post isn't the first of its kind).
Just like hackers are able to give the "suspicious behavior" warning by killing everyone near-instantly as Killer, hackers can force the server to crash.
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The most ridiculous thing is that, even though the perk is already near-useless, whenever you kick a gen while having tokens, it counts as TWO Regression Events (tested in customs with friends). You can't make this up XD.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095924#Comment_4095924
- There is no counterplay that's kinda why people don't like him. Crouching around doing nothing to progress the gamestate is not real counterplay.
- Requiring everyone to be in a swf to have a chance really shows how stupidly broken Jason is.
- Statistically speaking it's improbable for anyone to be consistently winning for this long, if Jason is not broken as ######### then the streak should have ended a long time ago.
Didn't OnePumpWillie do a 200+ winstreak with Trapper of all Killer? Does that mean Trapper needs a nerf? Of course not.
Winstreaks in DBD would be more indicative of a Killer's strength if there weren't strategies that can almost remove skill expression and mitigate the lack of strength on any Killers (tunnelling, camping, slugging for 4k etc). The only difference the Killer's strength does is change how often the Killer will have to rely on those strategies to consistently win against skilled players/a decent SWF.
I'm not saying Jason couldn't use a few tweaks, but he's not broken and nerfing him into the Shadow Realm isn't the way to go.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
With this kind of setup, there are always three food items lined up on the table. Plus, if someone gets injured during a chase, an instant heal and a buff trigger immediately. A standard 4.6 m/s Killer wouldn't stand a chance.
Imagine a 4.4 m/s without a projectile dealing with that XD
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092855#Comment_4092855
Enfury is in my "I short swing every pallet" build specifically because it's so brain off. Do you ever sub FTTE for BBQ is you're relying more on power?
I prefer FTTE over BBQ because, with a bit of luck, the Obsession will be close-by and it'll be a very streamlined hook-chase transition even with a Killer like Nemesis that has 0 traversal. BBQ's reliance on Survivors being far away makes it less straightforward.
BBQ is a perk I'll use with mobility Killers and if I feel like having to choose between multiple Survivors after a hook.
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Nemesis (Depleted Ink Ribbon, Zombie Eye or Marvin's Blood) or Wesker (Lab Photo, Unicorn Medallion or Video Conference Device)
Enfury, NTW, Bamboozle or FTTE.
Not very optimal builds, but versatile and easy to use during normal gameplay, not to win.
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I hope you come back to us in the fog soon @CountOfTheFog !
Wishing you a speedy and smooth recovery!
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@pidgeon said:
Would be hilarious if you got punished for being unable to kill the opposing team.
I mean, if you come across a hacker that hooks everyone instantly, face a basement Bubba or just have trolling teammates that unhook in the Killer's face and you get re-hooked on the spot, you can get an actual temp ban from the game for "suspicious behavior".
So technically, yeah, it won't be for farming/being friendly, but BHVR implemented an actual automated system to punish victims of hackers or just unlucky people.
We were lucky enough that BHVR didn't implement a system that would ban Killers for not killing the Survivors, which would remove any kind of casual play and take away both teams memeing/farming together. So you're safe.
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@cammoking123 said:
Why are people freaking out over the PTB? The point of the PTB is to test thing.
They announced that, for the LIVE release, the anti-camp teleport slowdown was significantly increased.
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So…
Jason is now further punished for canceling his projectile, despite the PTB delay on cancel being about the same as Huntress if I recall correctly, for zoning reasons. Yet he is also 4.4m/s and, unlike Huntress, only has one projectile which requires a hook or scrap pile (neither of which is guaranteed to spawn at whatever tile you're currently chasing in) to reload, which could mean dropping chase entirely depending on the tile since sone tiles are just miserable as a 4.4m/s Killer without a strong chase power. He really should be 4.6m/s without his projectile since missing the throw is so punishing.
I get the change to Silent Shadow, even if the other two perks needed changes much more in my opinion.
The add-ons changes are mostly fine, it's a shame that Coroner's Coffee was nerfed but it was expected.
Overall, nothing too surprising, disappointed that missing a throw still cripples you if RNG doesn't spawn a hook/pile in the looping path. Nice to see Silent Shadow being adjusted a bit.
Hopefully further changes are made later, but I hope the live release produces more feedback.
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Yeah, I don't think that's happening, not in pub games at least, especially not after the insta-blind debacle all those years ago.
I honestly can't recall the last time the devs did a stream in pub games since then, if there even was one, maybe I missed it.
Furthermore, the toxicity is a known aspect of DBD, in fact one of the things DBD is known for in other gaming communities is how toxic the DBD community can be. There's content creators making entire series based on that.
The devs are well aware of the toxicity, many of them that actually play the game outside of work hours have certainly had to deal with said toxicity directly on both sides, but it's extremely difficult to police it outside of extreme cases like when slurs/threats and stuff is thrown around.
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Willpower of the Broken
"You've been discarded and replaced so many times, but you keep going, even if only for the few ones that still wait for you.“
- While hooked, if every other Survivors leave the trial through the Gates, you can unhook yourself after a skillcheck instead of being instantly Sacrificed.
- Unhooking yourself in this manner automatically puts on the the 2nd hookstate, if you weren't already.
Well of Useless Knowledge"Your abnormal amount of knowledge on fictional franchises was useless for the entirety of your life… until now."
- Whenever you face a licensed Killer, see their aura for the first 3/6/9 seconds of the Trial.
- Whenever you would see the aura of a licensed Killer, the duration is increased by 2/4/6 seconds.
- Whenever you face an original Killer, you are afflicted with Oblivious for the first 30/25/20 seconds of the Trial.
- Even while afflicted with Blindness, you can see the aura of licensed Killers.
ADHD"You have absolutely no ability to go from one task to the next without losing focus… but with enough time on a single task, your focus makes you more efficient than most."
- When starting to repair a generator, healing another survivor, or opening a gate, you perform those actions 15% slower.
- Every second after starting, increase action speed by 1/2/3%, to a maximum of 20% faster.
- Upon reaching maximum increase, gain the Elusive status effect while performing the current task.
- This Action Speed increase is lost upon interrupting an action and starting a different one, but is not lost if the same task is resumed without starting a different one within 10/20/30 seconds.
I had way too much fun making those, even if I know they are completely ridiculous.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/467720/ghouls-screams
its worse with the Rize skin too…
Nah.
A pessimistic and cynical part of me believes that Kaneki was made beyond insufferable to constantly hear scream for the specific purpose of selling a near-silent skin that's more expensive than the actual character.
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I honestly think that the only reason she's not 4.6 is because she's already among the strongest basement defenders/campers/tunnelers in the game despite her slow speed, and making her faster would make those playstyle even stronger. Lets be honest, we rarely see team-wipes from Hags by chases, it's mostly done by SoloQ Survivors after failed attempts at basement rescues resulting in a snowball, not unlike Trapper.
If they give a radius around hooked Survivors where traps can't be placed, then sure. But having a 4.6 Killer that can warp back to hooks from half the map away if a Survivor triggers a trap (or even without that with the right add-on) could feel pretty bad from the Survivor's POV.
That, and also because I think BHVR revealed stats and Hag's stats were hovering around the 60% mark despite her abysmal pickrate, which is their goal no matter the manner or how miserable it feels to play to get those results.
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I mean, apparently he's 4.4m/s so if you miss the throw in a chase, he's gonna be miserable to play as if the chase is in the middle of a half-decent tile without a hook or scrap pile in it since he can't just spawn his spear repeatedly like Springtrap and he doesn't carry multiple at once like Huntress.
He's gonna be a high pickrate Killer just because of being Jason, but he doesn't seem like he'll be particularily fun to play after the initial novelty of 3 different Mori animations has worn off.
The power itself seems cool and his mobility is decent, but being 4.4 kinda ruins the Killer for me.
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I don't get it...
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Yeah... honestly, this was a massive missed opportunity to port something from DBD mobile but better so that people would stop saying that DBD mobile skins were better and other not-so-nice things.
It honestly feels a bit cheap. Sure, the Art team cooked (as they often do) but beyond visual design (and I don't get why a stick as a weapon... a diamond stick or diamond anti-titan blade would have at least been on theme) then the skin offers effectively nothing and is too expensive for the little it offers.
There's no mori, no unique intro, no unique sounds/voice/roar... nothing special except the animation in the lobby.
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What I don't get is why, since BHVR historically likes simple solutions, they didn't simply slap a hard cap on certain effects (there was already a cap on healing iirc) to prevent stacking beyond a certain threshold (which could have been tweaked upon feedback afterwards).
This would have achieved exactly what BHVR claimed they want to accomplish (making future perks easier to balance/design & making weak perks stronger later on due to limited potential) without killing niche/fun and non-meta builds.
Like, Botany + Empathic Connection + We'll Make It + WGLF was not a bad build per-say, it was good at its job, but you had nothing else. And now it's pretty "meh" at its job compared to before.
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Not only would that be nice…
But making Killer DCs into bots like Survivors (no need for anything complex, literally just an M1 bot would be sufficient) instead of just ending the match would be the cherry on top.
People get to train in customs as Survivor without needing a friend, people also get to no longer get their achievements/challenges/adepts denied out of spite at the last second.
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Given that they specify the buffs are "small tweaks", I'm fairly sure that none of the changes will be game-changing.
My guess is that they will get various minor cooldown reductions or trigger reductions (shorter cooldown and faster activation when applicable) and that the biggest change will be them giving back some of the stuff they took from Wesker recently (as a mod said they were working on).
Small tweaks usually aren't game-changing power adjustments, no new animation or anything like that.
They gotta be careful when messing with Bubba, we don't need changes accidentally making him even better at camping.
Unknown really does need some love, or at least some QOL changes.
Doctor could use some help... but leave the skillchecks part alone, he needs chase help.
Demo puppy needs some help. He's a decent Killer, arguably among the most "average" in the game, but it's a bit easy to neutralize half of his power.
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Dedicated Medic;
Empathic Connection + Botany Knowledge + We'll Make It.
Those 3 perks together, while not benefiting YOU all that much, makes you extremely valuable to the rest of your team. Especially if the other Survivors are able to make the Killer drop chase while injured. Your injured teammates will see you most of the time and you'll heal them nearly twice as fast even if they haven't been hooked.
Solidarity is a solid 4th perk that complements your altruistic healing if you are injured.
Bite The Bullet is a decent addition if you want to make healing a bit safer.
Do No Harm is also a good 4th perk that synergizes well with the other 3.
Absolute Annoyance (requires good chase skill and some gen time);
Blast Mine + Chemical Trap + Bada Bada Boom.
Those three perks together will make you able to effectively turn almost everything into a potential time-waster for the Killer. However, this will also tilt the Killer into focusing on you if they see you apply a trap.
Déjà Vu and Visionary are great 4th perk since it shows you the location of some gens at all times which makes charging your perks easier.
Come And Get Me and Object Of Obsession can both be good 4th perks due to drawing the Killer to you, which increases the opportunities to use your perks.
I tried to stay away from meta gen-speed builds XD
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062211#Comment_4062211
You're entitled to your opinion. I just don't personally see what sets her apart from any other side characters we've had over the years other than her having inflated significance in one title. Jake had a very similar role in 6 and also came out of nowhere but was easily forgotten. Again, get back to me in a year or two and tell me if you still care about her as much as you care about the main cast.
I think that what sets Grace a bit apart from the rest of the main cast is that, for once, she has almost zero true training (she's FBI, but not a field agent) and she's little more than a traumatized girl trying to survive at first. Literally every other RE protags were either trained to some degree or special in some way (Ethan might not have had official training before RE7, but he wasn't just a normal dude either for 99% of RE7 and got training from Chris between RE7 and 8. Claire wasn't as trained as her brother before RE2 but Chris taught her a little.)
Grace literally stumbles when running and shakes her hands when using the Requiem (aka the wrist-breaker 3000), her "melee" against zombies is just pushing them. Her gameplay is much different than most RE characters in the past.
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Resident Evil Requiem's success alone basically guarantees that, at the very least, we'll see some RE9 cosmetics eventually.
If I had to guess, Grace will either be a Survivor or a legendary skin, Leon's RE9 look will likely be added.
A "Commander" skin for Legion is very possible, although it would be a bit redundant since we already have H.U.N.K.
I really hope we never get Zemo as a Killer or skin for Wesker. He's a cheap knockoff of Wesker already and the laziest possible villain design for Capcom (the game is great though, easily in my top 3 RE games, but come on, dumb as he was, even Simmons was at least his own character and not just a Temu version of another character).
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I mean, with how successful RE9 was, it's pretty likely that RE9 content/cosmetics will show up.
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I'd like it if, at some point, we got a Killer who could affect the map directly.
Not like Dredge or Freddy or Vecna 2, I mean literally able to switch map mid-match, or re-roll the pallet/gen/tiles rng of the current map.
They would need to have a teleport of some kind so that their own power don't screw them over if they suddenly end up in a huge map.
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Even disregarding the various gameplay arguments, Killers cannot abandon when the exits are powered/opened for a simple reason: the game instantly ends when a Killer DCs/Abandons.
Some achievements, and any quests demanding escaping through the gates, would become nigh-impossible since gate escapes would become a lot more rare.
Think about it, before bots were a thing and the recent Myers rework allowed him to Mori Survivors on the ground if on 2nd hook, Survivors would go in lockers and stay there forever out of spite to deny the "Evil Incarnate" achievement (since they could still get pulled from the locker and sacrificed, but it would void the achievement).
Now imagine trying to go for "Outbreak Breakout" or "Hand-Eye Coordination", or hell, any map-specific achievement requiring escape if the Killer could instantly decide to end the game the moment the gates are powered/opened? Achievements that are already obnoxious and utterly dependant on chance to even try to get would become borderline impossible.
However, if BHVR implements functional Killer bots that would not void any achievements, then that aspect would be covered.
But unless the game doesn't end when a Killer DCs or Abandons, there's no way that opening/powering the gates can enable a Killer to just dip. Even if the achievements didn't exist, gates escapes would become rare and nearly every games where the Killer lost (and/or doesn't have an endgame build) would end the moment the gates are powered/open and barely any matches would actually be played to the end.
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There's about a dozen ways to help bridge the gap between SWF and SoloQ... basekit voice chat is not the one.
As many people above already said, the community is very toxic as is, just look at how people use the post-game chat, and people just wouldn't listen to each other anyway.
However, there are many ways to help bridge the gap. Here are some examples;
Ping system.
Perk effects to help coordinate (Head On would highlight the locker in yellow for teammates when ready to use, Wicked & Deli would show an icon or would make the hook icon shiny for the other Survivors to indicate they can unhook and there's no need to get off gens, same for perks making self-pickup possible, I could go on).
Basic chatwheel on a cooldown ("Killer is near the hook", "Come unhook me!", "Don't heal", "Heal up", "focus on gens", etc.). This chatwheel could also be used to "command" bots a bit better to reduce them wasting time emoting instead of repairing or healing.
There's other ways to expand on those, but those are a start. The best and least abuseable one would be the perk adjustments, since trolls could potentially spam the chatwheel and ping system.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049915#Comment_4049915
I understand not wanting to make knee-jerk changes. But I also dont want to wait a year for sensible adjustments like we just had to for Ghoul.
I'd also like to hear what the actual counterplay is supposed to be, other than run around like a headless chicken until you inevitably die.
Pallets? No. Windows? No. Pre-run? Well he literally pops up underneath you to start chase so no. Dodge and gain distance? His cooldowns aren't long enough to make any while actively attempting to dodge. Use the clocks? His power lasts a long time regardless, takes time away from gens/healing to complete, and he gets it back nearly instantly anyway. So we're left with the aforementioned turn off your brain and press random buttons, with maybe a sprinkle of everyone's favorite strategy; choose which corner to die in!
Well, after a lot of games against and as The First, I'd say that as far as counterplay goes, mindgame is the name of the game.
If he manages to center a vine attack perfectly on the Survivor, they'll get hit unless they have some method of Haste (holding Sprint Burst saved me a couple times). However perfectly aiming it is easier said than done and it's usually much more reliable to "place" your attack where you think the Survivor will be.
There lies the Survivor's counterplay. Not unlike most ranged Killers or Pyramid Head & Nurse, keeping an eye on them can tell you where they want to cut you off (more often than not during animation locks, so feints next to pallets and vaults are good bets).
While The First has a longer range and verticality options unlike PH, if the Survivor is good at predicting his vine attacks and moves erraticaly enough... he's done for because he is 4.4 (and a vine attack basically locks him in place for a second, long enough to continue the chase without the Killer gaining much ground) and as such if he can't get hits with his power he can't fall back on normal M1 chases to see him through.
The Undergate attack... if the Survivors don't stay there, it's ridiculously easy to evade if nothing slows them down. It takes so long to gain control back that even if the Survivor dodges the actual attack by a hair, the Survivor still has good distance, especially since the Killer is 4.4 and the mobility option has a massive cooldown.
One of my first pub matches vs The First (they were going for Adept on day 1) was a complete stomp because we kept predicting (and sometimes guessing) correctly and it took 2 gens for him to trigger Worldbreaker for the first time.
Funnily enough, I've rarely seen close games with The First, it is almost always a stomp on either side. But it makes sense due to how slow his start can be if he goes against good Survivors that can read him well.
I do agree that the clocks are a bit useless and should be more of a factor in some way (maybe increase the time reduction if more than one Survivor are using clocks at once, more time off gens in return for less Wordlbreaker time) but I honestly don't see how we could nerf his vine attack in any meaningful way without sending the Killer in the Shadow Realm in the process.
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Please, let's not have a repeat of the Fog Vials, and let's wait a few weeks to a month for people to adjust to the counterplay (and for content creators to make tutorials) before sending something to the Shadow Realm within days because it's not obvious and easy to play around something.
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@Balrog said:
I wonder if this is moreso a mechanic some Survivor players aren't aware of. Do you feel like it's intentional that players are hiding in the anti-camp area?
I don't think it's a matter of knowledge of the mechanic itself (it does show up in a tooltip if I recall correctly) but rather a lack of in-game indicator for distance.
For example, making it so the anti-camp circle glows white and/or blinks while stopping to demonstrate it is stopped would go a long way to inform players of the situation.
Even seasoned players sometimes misjudge the distance, especially in map with elevation.
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While the limit on kicks is unfortunately something that couldn't be avoided due to old "Chess Merchant" and (previously) powerful perks, the mechanic now (since most regression perks are shadows of their former selves and Merchant can't hold zones like before) could use some small tweaks.
While a kick limit (emphasis on kick) should stay, I think perks-triggered regression shouldn't count toward the limit anymore, or at least simultaneous regression events should count as only one, as it limits perk combinations (and the perks are much weaker now than when the limit should have been there) and easily backfires even when not purposefully trying to create a 3-gen.
For example, a Killer using Surge & Eruption will effectively have 3 kicks on a gen if they down close enough (easily achieved on high-priority/center gens like R.P.D. main gens or Ormond main gen), such gens are important since Survivors (to avoid a 3-gen later) will often try to get them early and gravitate around them, which means more kicks if the Survivors are good enough at pressuring those gens without going down too fast. It isn't unheard of (although extremely rare) for skilled SWF teams to purposefully make a Killer kick a specific gen multiple times by keeping it at high progress without finishing it in order to forcefully make this gen almost free in endgame by reducing the Killer's ability to stop progression.
A limit should exist to prevent ridiculous stalemates but, at least, simultaneous perk-triggered regression should only count as one regression event.
Side-note: the perk "Undone", a perk that already near-useless due to being entirely dependant on Survivors failing skillchecks often, actually uses two regression events if tokens are used when kicking (tested with a friend in customs), even if the perk activates upon kicking and not separately which makes it even more of a joke.
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@Philscooper said:
If ONLY we could've gotten a wizard survivor but noooooo.
I mean, Vittorio isn't that far, one of his perks is literally using some sort of magic glyph to store energy.
I'm sure a more "classic" wizard is gonna happen at some point.
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ST Vecna;
+faster cooldown
+better mobility
+less noise means less predictable when going for hits through walls/loops.
–needs ramp up until M2 damages, doesn't damage on 1st hit, potentially slowing early-game (arguably the most important part of any trial).
–teleport attack is very telegraphed and can't be canceled into a quick M1.
–the mori is arguably more complex to set up than PH Mori unless you specifically go for it, unlike PH mori that is often done without really planning for it.
–has no way to avoid saves unlike PH cages that can make him able to avoid any kind of saves and is fast enough to be done mid-chase.
–Far less effective at trading and tunnelling off-hook. (a positive from a design perspective).
Both have their advantages over the other, ST Vecna will likely get a bunch of changes between PTB and Live. Among those changes will likely be some sort of way to remove stacks since it's among the most common complaints.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with Nemesis now having 4 zombies.
For years, BHVR said that more than 2 was impossible due to engine limitations as a reason why additional zombies weren't implemented. I guess that, just in case it made the game collapse on itself, they put it in a PTB first.
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Unfortunately, it's just not really doable, especially since Killer DCing instantly ends the game (which is, incidentally, why having the gates opened/powered can't allow the Killer to Abandon: basically no matches would ever get played to the very end as most Killers won't bother pushing Survivors out and would just abandon, making several achievements and quests borderline impossible).
Every time in the past when it was disabled, there would be at least one DC every match, often at the very beginning.
It's really annoying to get a DC penalty because of technical issues or hackers (because yes, cheaters can forcibly DC other people by crashing the server. Happened to me a few times when I managed to catch them even through their speedhacks) but unfortunately the amount of valid DC against petty DC would be minuscule.
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I've noticed that cheaters in DBD is kinda like the flu.
Every year there's a period of time, usually a few weeks to around a month but never more than two, where there's a big rise in cheater. This usually means that hackers found a new way to bypass DBD anti-cheat.
After a while, BHVR upgrades their security silently and the cheating epidemic goes away and we return to status quo, rinse and repeat. It's always been like this.
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After what Gun and Illfonic did to F13th, TCM and Predator Hunting Grounds, no one has any faith in any game those companies touch.
The Halloween game will last about a year before it flops, then the license holders will come crawling back to BHVR.
Best case scenario is the Halloween game is miraculously a great game and doesn't get abandoned nor becomes a cashgrab, which pulls some players away from DBD. In response, BHVR first switches up their roadmap and starts prioritizing licensed content, if that doesn't work, they pull a Blizzard and "suddenly" a bunch of stuff and QOL that have been requested for years get released rapid-fire to bring back the players initially lost to the Halloween game. Returning the status quo when player numbers return to BHVR's liking.
Unfortunately, being limited to a single license, the Halloween game cannot offer the same variety long-term that DBD offers with its constantly growing number of licenses. Even if the people behind the game didn't have a horrible track record, it would take a lot for DBD to be truly threatened.