Rogue11
Rogue11
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- Rogue11
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"We banned people at the drop of a hat for years and now no one talks here" 😑
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I absolutely despised how busted Blight was for several years, but I'm not entirely sure he needs more nerfs after the 4.4m/s and losing tokens on pallet break changes. Is he still an overpowered monster in his current state? Kind of an open question as I've been playing less DBD and don't see him as often anymore.
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@Xendritch said:
So the doctor thing is already live it only requires 4-5 stacks of STBFL. It's been one of the best things about STBFL since it got introduced.
The clown build is the most egregious but again you can kinda already do this with STBFL + Rapid Brutality + Intoxicating a survivor right before you hit them.
That said 1.2 second cooldown is probably a little egregious even if it takes a bit to achieve it. At the same time I love how much the new basic attack speed perk buffs helps weaker m1 killers so I don't want it just gone.
Maybe something like Dark Arrogance only works on successful hits and pallets stuns up to 50% longer? Cuz yes the effect is strong enough to warrant that and you can always put on enduring. Alternatively BHVR is entirely capable of hard capping how much you can buff something like I'm pretty sure you can't get heal speed past 200% so maybe they could do that where basic attack recovery caps at 45 or 50%?
Its almost like hard caps at problem values for buffs always made more sense than reworking every perk in the game around a contrived diminishing returns system...
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So we're buffing proxy camping AND tunneling? Meet the new meta….same as the old meta…
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117606#Comment_4117606
anti-tunnel- is your only leg to stand on, I agree it could be better especially against the better killers but STB needed a slap on the wrist
Why?
I've seen a couple of people echo the same sentiment, but never explain what is so OP about STB.
Tunneling should never ever have a downside, even after 10+ years of it being a dominant meta wildly overpowered mechanic.
Ahem...your meta shake up, sir..
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@crogers271 said:
I should have waited a day for my anti-tunnel timeline I guess.
Anyway @sizzlingmario4 has a great idea for how the perk would actually be really useful as an anti-tunnel perk.
I suspect though we'll hear people say 'no, it's now actually S Tier. You just need to combine it with adrenaline, get unhooked with the last gen half way done, tank the hit, last out the chase, and boom, heal for the end game.'
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@MoZo said:
their reasoning for the change doesn’t even make sense too. they said because of basekit elusive, they don’t want to add it to BT. Why?? they’re acting like an extra 10 seconds of Elusive off hook will break the game or be insanely overpowered. all it will do is help the unhooked survivor have a better chance at escaping the area to go find someone to heal them (like BT is SUPPOSED TO DO).
It’s a real shame since BT was one of the only perks that punished the killer from sniffing a survivor’s back and counting to 10 after they’ve been unhooked to cheese a quick down.
i know killer players have been vocal about the game not feeling fun for them which is understandable but with the way the devs are trying to address it, it’s going a bad direction. making survivor miserable and not fun will just swing the complaints in the other direction. we can’t just keep nerfing anything and everything on survivor every update.
Idk where you've been hearing feedback but surviors aren't exactly having the time of their lives in the current game state.
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They weren't beginner perks, or they wouldn't have consistently seen the highest usage at all skill levels for years. Weird how Technician and Spine Chill were never up there with the "beginner perk" Windows of Opportunity.
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@bingbongboi90 said:
I dont know why OP is getting down voted for being positive.
They are good changes. Maybe could have given more buffs on the survivor side regarding invocations but none are bad changes.
Most of the survivor changes are trash perks remaining trash perks, or currently useful perks becoming trash perks. I see nothing to get excited about as tunneling gets easier yet again and killers get multiple new strong perks. Chest searching, blessing totems, minor heal buffs. None of these shake up anything on the survivor side. You nerfed every useful survivor item and boon perk, remember?
Nerfing the Google Maps survivor perks (5 Steps, Windows) was long overdue.
Nerfing anti-tunnel perks (BT, Shoulder) is a huge slap in the face (again) after being strung along for years that the devs would address tunneling itself.
Nerfing the only decent aura reveal counter (Self Preservation) while buffing even more tracking perks for killers. As if aura spam hasn't already been massively powercrept in recent years. Really makes me want to come back to the game vs Judgement. /s
Removing unhook chances from Slippery Meat takes all the fun factor out of the perk. Yes we know it was only useful in luck builds. That was the point of the perk. Now its just trash.
Hex builds for killers getting hit like 5 different ways this update seems like overkill and I doubt they will see much use going forward.
Dissolution nerf will be nice vs a couple of braindead builds (Ghoul, Legion)
Outside of a slight nerf to DMS, none of the meta killer slowdowns were touched. Quad slowdown remains as strong as ever.
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Nerfing the Google Maps perks is great and long overdue. They aren't just "training wheels" perks when they're extremely common even with experienced players.
Shoulder was already difficult to get value from and now its borderline useless. Sad to see the net total of the promised anti-tunnel changes from the "year of health" has been 10 seconds of Elusive, nerfing AFC, and nukes to Off the Record and Shoulder the Burden. Why are we buffing tunneling AGAIN if this is supposed to "shake up the meta"?
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Any idea when these tests will be finished?
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Haven't the personal stats been broken in the way they count abandons as escapes/kills since they were introduced?
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115702#Comment_4115702
This is literally probably her last buff, also Henry, springtrap and Jason didn't get buffed much.
And I don't even think it's that strong, curves require a lot of skill and this lets people to be skillful and makes the power better at close range and still survivors can literally see where the killer is aiming so survivors can still dodge it, Henry is more 50/50 than her, she depends on skill of both players.
Its not skill of both players if the survivor makes the correct move and the killer says "lol curve nyoom". Powers that are dependent on both players to predict each other shouldn't be buffed to where the killer gets to just react to whatever the survivor does and get a hit anyway. Particularly when these types of powers ignore every map resource/obstacle.
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He's not quite as awful to face since Sauna Rock got nerfed.
I still think its pretty stupid that he gets basically perma haste when he already gets to start every chase directly behind a survivor.
And Deputy badge is still overpowered.
The spear ranged attack is pretty well balanced and the reload mechanic is fair enough imo.
Hopefully the Thrill nerf will tone down the effectiveness of hex builds.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Tried launching the game and Windows Defender blocked the DbD executable as part of "Smart App Control". Never had this issue before.
DbD has now been uninstalled. I'll be back when the test is over as I do not agree with being forced to trial third-party software, especially if it's going to cause issues with my antivirus. Tests like this should be opt-in.
If you dont have Denuvo installed already to run other games, you might want to look up how to fully remove it from your system. Uninstalling DBD alone might not fully remove Denuvo. I believe a dev posted instructions for this somewhere...
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113931#Comment_4113931
the update was yesterday.
I know, im just stating that not everyone has their game set to auto update.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113926#Comment_4113926
unless you uninstalled before today it is already on your machine. I woke mine out of sleep and the files were there
You can set steam to update DBD only when launched instead of automatically. I did because I'd rather not have who knows how many 3rd partys software installed on my pc without approval. I also wanted to see if anyone has issues with custom perk/character portraits so Ill sit these tests out.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113024#Comment_4113024
So people forget Hag exist..?
When they remember, most people quickly recall why they're happy she's rarely played
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@MiseryandCompany said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112755#Comment_4112755
they did, what do you think the basekit elusive on unhooks is for? They tried a slugging change approach which would have been really bad for the game, so instead they settled with solving the unfun part of bleeding to death by introducing abandoning a game, which works very well.
The unhook protections changes are a massive net nerf to survivor/buff to tunneling.
Abandon didnt fix slugging either lmao. If we bring back locker flashlight saves but let the killer abandon after they're used would that "solve the unfun part" too?
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Now do all the streams from the last 2 years where they said they wanted to reduce the effectiveness of tunneling and slugging
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Already seeing more killers hard tunnel with this change, and Elusive isn't doing anything to help.
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Yet things like Wraith with Turn Back The Clock and Serpant Soot add on is deemed intended. Its always in the same direction.
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@Danoobiel said:
Elusive power creep is a mistake and should not happen.
The level of hand holding has become obscene.
Ok ill happily trade it for the extra 5 seconds of endurance back
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110966#Comment_4110966
I agree that tunneling at 2 or 3 gens is not a huge deal, at that point it's really nothing personal, the killer just needs someone out of the game to have a chance to win. But tunneling at 5 has become more and more common, and it's the easiest and cheesiest way to win almost every game unless you're up against a decently equipped SWF. Also, I do play with friends sometimes which is honestly the only reason I play survivor at all anymore, but most people don't have friends available to play 24/7, and the majority of the playerbase is solo queue
This is basically the objectives of the anti-tunnel system PTB but it got immediately canceled over temper tantrums. Pretty sad we could have had a much better game state by now.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Should it be "The Entity gives you a cookie"?
I mean, it used to be "Entity Displeased"; but Killers complained about that, now it is "The Entity Hungers" which is more neutral. I think this is fine.As opposed to "Match Result: DEAD" 8/10 solo queue matches 😄
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110711#Comment_4110711
Y'all don't get tired of saying this?
People tunneled and camped even when slowdowns were at their strongest.
People still tunneled when anti-tunneling was at its strongest too.
Why? Because tunneling is very low effort for a high reward, and it takes far more skill to outplay tunneling than it does to tunnel.
For the 90000th time, tunneling will only be solved with a scorched earth approach. No amount of carrots will solve the problem.
A carrots approach to tunneling would essentially be "make killer so absurdly overpowered that I never lose and I'll stop tunneling". And tbh a lot of killers would still tunnel even in that case...
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109946#Comment_4109946
but we have nothing of the sort rn and that's what I'm guessing is coming next with perk designs/item designs.
Watch 'em drop the laziest surv ever with his three perks all giving 30% recovery speed on one status effect each.
Anything resembling something useful will get the usual channels proclaiming the end of DBD and it will be nerfed into irrelevance on release or in the first bug patch after release.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109842#Comment_4109842
vigil and sprint burst are two peas in a pod. both have needed addressing for a while now.
we need to not be encouraging mobility creep because it's Vigil, SB and Finesse which makes m1 killers resort to playing the likes of Ghoul
I know I know, just nerf
Circle of Healing, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Medkits, Gen Times, Maps, Keys, Made For This, Flashbang, Fog Vials,Sprint Burst and all those closet non-tunneling, perkless Trapper mains will surely flood the queues any day now. This time will definitely be the one. -
@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109842#Comment_4109842
nope content creators will complain about that
Will they add survivor bots into normal queues once they start complaining about killer queue times?
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So are we cancelling the sprint burst nerf now that Vigil is dead? Or just piling it next to the other dead survivor perks, fog vials, and medkit add ons?
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Not without massively buffing the guards and I'd rather play against a human opponent than AI. There are far worse killers to save your energy for complaints imo.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108892#Comment_4108892
I’m just going by my own tracking of matches and the stats that BHVR have reported in the past that show a 40% average escape rate (or much better if you are playing high MMR SWF). People here can choose to not believe that and downvote if they want. I don’t know what else to tell you other than if you’re not having fun as survivor or feel like you should be escaping way more often, then work to improve (I found survivor much more enjoyable once I learned how to loop consistently) or just don’t play if you’re practicing a lot and still not having fun.
Seems a lot of survivor players took your advice to not play. Hope killers enjoy the long queue times while continuing to say everything is fine and balanced.
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@Readyplayerone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108498#Comment_4108498
It would with AI survivors also. The idea is to blend AI with human teams to break the bottlenecks. But also, we already have wallhacks aka aura reads in the game. The only difference between the AI and a human player is the AI has better pathing.
- Players didn't sign up to play with/against bots.
- This was tried in 2v8 despite backlash and resulted in almost no impact on queue times. As bots were added, fewer real survivor players were willing to queue. And I don't blame them because reasons #1 & #3.
- The bots are terrible. Surprise, AI coded by developers who largely don't play their own game ends up not being very helpful. The vast majority of matches where a survivor DC's immediately are going to be a loss because the bots get stunlocked by the slightest terror radius, don't understand complex plays like body blocking, hook trading, or coordinating end game saves, and are easily manipulated into uselessness by things like proxy camping. The only thing they really excel at is drawing out a match the killer has already won by farming survivor players off hook. Despite all these obvious weaknesses, they were also PURPOSELY made significantly worse in chase (it was included in patch notes).
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They dont generally buy more time than another single pallet tile if the killer just forces one of the pallets down asap. But they count for 2 pallets toward the map total. So overall they weaken the total map resources which kind of sucks.
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Another intrusive system that ruins immersion and still fails to address the real problem in solo queue (matchmaking). No thanks, I'll take the toggle please.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108190#Comment_4108190
More killer diversity = more players willing to play survivor. I get that people don't like facing a small pool of killers and increasing that in general would be a help yes. The problem is getting people to WANT to play those killers. And you can't deny a LOT of killers need work even if "the queues" say otherwise.
I don't think buffing every killer to Jason/Ghoul/Drac levels is going to raise survivor morale the way you think it will. I very much don't think it will.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108185#Comment_4108185
"Maps are weaker" ok go play clown vs pallet density. Pallet density is so mind numbingly boring to the point you can honestly get away with tide teching (throwing shack) at 5 gens against a lot of killers and you would honestly be fine. Maybe if resources felt like resources sure but currently no. Some killers just weren't baked with map pressure and chase power at the same time which you kind of need in modern dbd due to a lot of the slowdown being nerfed and or earned (unlike a lot of survivor perks). And the point was saying killer in general is in a bad spot. Do we really want people to play the same killers because of the current state of the game?
So like I said, killer queues are longer than ever and your solution is to buff more killers?
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108096#Comment_4108096
Because killer is horrible to play right out outside of the top 10-12 in the roster. Nothing is more boring than survivors just pre running to yellow and dropping providing as little chase interactivity as possible whenever you play a weaker killer. Pallet density along with slowdown nerfs really makes weaker killers unenjoyable to play.
Just because queue times are longer on killer (understandably so since the whole Jason stink going around) doesn't mean killer ISNT in a bad spot right now. So many powers feel out dated or just bad to use when there's a better version on another killer.Outdated by what? Did survivors get faster? Maps, perks, items, gen speeds, are all weaker by far over the lifespan of the game. The only way these killers are "outdated" is by comparison to newer overtuned killers. And we can't ever just balance those overperforming killers right? We have to make all the killers just as overtuned as Ghoul and Jason right?
Surely that will make survivors feel like queueing up /s
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I thought we learned the lesson that this mode should have never come back after the first time
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I'm surprised to see all the justifications for Drac having Weskers entire power + free tracking + haste + third person fov. On top of 2 other abilities and normal movement speed. Well...not that surprised.
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I look forward to seeing her about as often as Jonathan players after the first couple weeks. People are way more excited about voters not getting the attractive character than to actually play as the winner.
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@JaccKults said:
We can all make up stats. Yours, truly, is an academic levels of patheticness.
How dare I "make up" stats by stating the exact time frames and game versions I compared and listing my source used in the original post.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104420#Comment_4104420
if your running surge in a small map or if survivors start running and get downed in a specific area in the range of surge not to mention if you kick the gen beforehand then down a survivor in that area with surge can happen in a game and you can quickly run through the stacks but i don't even like to slug that often either
I run Surge pretty often and I have occasionally hit the limit. Usually though its on a map like RPD where the chases cluster around the middle chokepoint. And by the time I hit the limit I've usually already won.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/470628/dispelling-myths-of-killer-gen-perk-nerfs
you forgot that in the background all these perks besides ruin are affected by the 8 kick limit so surge and eruption are worse by default gen regression as a whole is nerfed
unless you're slugging and activating these perks repeatedly, you shouldn't be hitting that limit until you have 6-8 hooks, right? I would expect the game to be nearly over by that point, or at least down to a 3v1.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104377#Comment_4104377
Original Ruin slowed the game down at the start without any input. Even if every survivor was hitting only great skill checks every time, they were still getting no extra progression on those great skill checks. It being a hex meant that survivors also spent time not on gens to remove it.
New Ruin does not contribute the same way and it only works if the killer is capable of getting survivors of gens. It's good, but it's not just slap it on every killer and get value.
I would say it's more of a sidegrade now than a straight nerf, but I do understand people who do see it as just nerfed.
Yea I could see it as a sidegrade, but in the context of the version of game in which original Ruin existed, regression and killer overall is far stronger now. At that time, you really only had Ruin & Pop as strong regression, vs old Dead Hard, old DS, old BNP, fewer gen charges to complete, old medkits, old maps etc. I don't think its remotely close compared to the current game.
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104381#Comment_4104381
Where did I ever say that? I am providing a counterpoint to your chart that shows that these perks are buffed when it can also be shown that they have been nerfed, because you neglected to include where they were at their strongest. I also never said anything was unusable, simply that most of the perks have been nerfed and are weaker than they were. Given that you are trying to put words in my mouth I can only assume you aren't going to actually engage in good faith.
You came in accusing me of cherry picking for choosing the original version of perks and the most impactful balance patch in the game's history for comparison points. Then proceeded to cherry pick (lol) only the strongest version of each perk, to prove what exactly?
Every one of the perks on the list is very much usable in it's current state with the possible exception of Overcharge, and Thana being killer dependent. That's the entire point of the post, as I'm beyond tired of being gaslit about them.
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@Readyplayerone said:
The gen perks are garbage and that's why killers have pretty much abandoned them in favor of slugging and tunneling.
They aren't garbage, as evidenced by them still being used nearly every match. And guess what they did when Ruin was at its peak strength? Slugged/tunneled. Guess what they did during OverBrine meta? Slugged/tunneled.
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@indieeden7 said:
It seems a lot of people apparently think hitting great skill checks consistently is a difficult thing to do
Seriously, I should be running Huntress Lullaby Doctor builds if skill checks are as hard as I've been informed here.
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104349#Comment_4104349
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8IGF4LER0P3K/regression.png
Here are the perks compared to their peaks. You can see that nearly every single one has been nerfed from when it was at peak strength.
I'm sure if you ask 100 people who tunnel the reason that they tunnel, you will get 100 different answers, because there is no singular reason, but it is undeniable that regression is not as strong as it once was and likely contributes a bit to it.So you think every killer perk should only be as strong as it has ever been? Now who's cherry picking?? I guess exhaustion perks are unusable because Sprint Burst doesn't recharge while running anymore?
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104348#Comment_4104348
You said "mostly" hit greats. With old ruin a single good skill check is -5% and you don't get any extra progress on greats, so you are losing that bonus as well. I hope old ruin never comes back because it was one of, if not the single most overpowered perk in the games history. I genuinely do not see how anyone can claim new ruin is better than old ruin in good faith.
Even if we say you're 100% correct and original Ruin was its strongest form, the current version isn't in any way useless or unusable, which was my entire original point. Same for nearly all of the perks listed. Yet I still see killers saying they have to tunnel because gen regression is too weak. Given the evidence presented, and all available perk usage stats, I find that argument unconvincing.