Dispelling Myths Of Killer Gen Perk Nerfs
I've heard several times how gen regression / slowdown perks have been nerfed so hard that they're all basically useless. Yet, from official/unofficial stats and personal experience, they are still incredibly popular. So I decided to list them out and compare their original effects to their current effects to see just how "useless" they are. I also threw in a column for any changes in patch 6.1, as it is largely agreed to be the most consequential balance patch in the game's history. All values were taken from as it seemed to be the most comprehensive as far as perk history and updated to current patches.
Overall, I find the reports of the deaths of gen slowdown perks to be greatly exaggerated, with them only appearing nerfed when compared to a single period of time when for a few months, killers could indefinitely stall matches (gen kick meta).
Note: Some perk changes are omitted as there have of course been many smaller balance patches over the course of the game. This includes some significant perk states such as 200% regression Ruin. I didn't want to create a spreadsheet with 20 columns, and whether its 150 or 200%, the current Ruin remains stronger than its original.
Comments
Old ruin is definitely stronger than the current ruin so overall it's a nerf, needing to hit only great skill checks is insanely strong compared to auto regression at a higher rate.
If youre playing against experienced survivors, old ruin did nothing. Do you need strong regression perks against inexperienced survivors?
Current ruin is absolutely not stronger than old ruin. Old ruin meant you HAD to hit great skill checks, tap gens the entire match, or cleanse the totem, which is significantly better than it is now. Even experienced survivors won't be hitting great skill checks every single time, if they did, every single one would run hyperfocus. Neglecting to include when certain perks were at their strongest (Pop at 25% total progress for 60 seconds or DMS at 50 seconds blocked for example) also makes the list seem disingenuous and cherry-picked.
Still did something uless they hit greats 99% still one miss was 5% regression so the percentage of survivors that made old ruin not so effective perk against them was super small.
Old ruin was probably one of strongest regression perks of all times and majority couldnt counter it by "being that good" meaning hitting almost every great skill check so they made whole strategy against it called gen tapping, may sound simular mainly for stopping regression before it got buffed for the killers meaning any regression makes 5% of progress for survivor to repair to stop it but long before it was mainly used to do gens with old ruin active.
Old ruin was strongest that perks ever was, then when it had 200% regression but after that they nerf it hard to 100% and ruin destroyed itself when someone died even when that survivor killed himself on the hook and the ruin got buffed to be useable again.
The nerfs were mostly to balance it and the biggest had only one purpose and that was to put ruin from meta which almost happened.
Anyone who played against old ruin will tell you how onoxious it was if they remember simular to old ds where you must dribble the obsession to get the hook because it was free escape with htat perk.
Edit: when doing only greats missing sometimes happens and back then the connection to server wasnt that good I would tell, missing skill check is 10% of progress now 9 seconds of time plus some extra since theres animation and short time where no progress builds up on gen which was another huge deal with old ruin now slap there doctor with harder skill checks and you had to either gen tap or go and destroy totem to do gens.
Ok lets bring back old Ruin. Ill happily take that over consistent value from the current version and I hit most greats anyways. Now keep in mind Ruin and Pop were basically the only gen regression perks at that time. We now have 10-12 very usable ones on top of having undying / thrill to make Ruin even more consistent.
Youre welcome to make a 20 column spreadsheet including every single change. While youre at it why dont you throw in maps and survivor perks and you'll get a much clearer picture of overall balance trends for the last 10 years.
You said "mostly" hit greats. With old ruin a single good skill check is -5% and you don't get any extra progress on greats, so you are losing that bonus as well. I hope old ruin never comes back because it was one of, if not the single most overpowered perk in the games history. I genuinely do not see how anyone can claim new ruin is better than old ruin in good faith.
Even if we say you're 100% correct and original Ruin was its strongest form, the current version isn't in any way useless or unusable, which was my entire original point. Same for nearly all of the perks listed. Yet I still see killers saying they have to tunnel because gen regression is too weak. Given the evidence presented, and all available perk usage stats, I find that argument unconvincing.
While regression/stall isn't dead it's definitely in the one of the weakest general states it's been in (excluding things obviously like hex builds on the killers that can defend totems really well). There's just been more inclusions of more viable gen regression perks but only slightly. Oppression buff was nice but 40 second cooldown to only base regress 3 other gens which honestly for its cooldown could be 150% regression speed. Surge cooldown removal was nice. Overcharge got a viability buff but right now Call of Brine is just better. At least Pop is nearly back to its pre-nerf strength with the only thing it's missing now is the 60 second timer to use it.
The strongest regression right now has not much compared to old Overbrine and eruption, DMS and pain res/grim embrace, pop and ruin or ruindying combos. Especially factor in the gen kick limit didn't exist for the previous combos.
Would like to see a buff to Huntress' Lullaby one of these days though.
Here are the perks compared to their peaks. You can see that nearly every single one has been nerfed from when it was at peak strength.
I'm sure if you ask 100 people who tunnel the reason that they tunnel, you will get 100 different answers, because there is no singular reason, but it is undeniable that regression is not as strong as it once was and likely contributes a bit to it.
It seems a lot of people apparently think hitting great skill checks consistently is a difficult thing to do
So you think every killer perk should only be as strong as it has ever been? Now who's cherry picking?? I guess exhaustion perks are unusable because Sprint Burst doesn't recharge while running anymore?
Seriously, I should be running Huntress Lullaby Doctor builds if skill checks are as hard as I've been informed here.
Where did I ever say that? I am providing a counterpoint to your chart that shows that these perks are buffed when it can also be shown that they have been nerfed, because you neglected to include where they were at their strongest. I also never said anything was unusable, simply that most of the perks have been nerfed and are weaker than they were. Given that you are trying to put words in my mouth I can only assume you aren't going to actually engage in good faith.
The problem is that getting even one good was 5% regression, and it removed the bonus progress from them as well. If you can hit great skill checks 95% of the time, you are still getting slowed down due to the fact that you get no bonus progress on top of the lost progress from the occasional good.
Original Ruin slowed the game down at the start without any input. Even if every survivor was hitting only great skill checks every time, they were still getting no extra progression on those great skill checks. It being a hex meant that survivors also spent time not on gens to remove it.
New Ruin does not contribute the same way and it only works if the killer is capable of getting survivors of gens. It's good, but it's not just slap it on every killer and get value.
I would say it's more of a sidegrade now than a straight nerf, but I do understand people who do see it as just nerfed.
The gen perks are garbage and that's why killers have pretty much abandoned them in favor of slugging and tunneling.
They aren't garbage, as evidenced by them still being used nearly every match. And guess what they did when Ruin was at its peak strength? Slugged/tunneled. Guess what they did during OverBrine meta? Slugged/tunneled.
You came in accusing me of cherry picking for choosing the original version of perks and the most impactful balance patch in the game's history for comparison points. Then proceeded to cherry pick (lol) only the strongest version of each perk, to prove what exactly?
Every one of the perks on the list is very much usable in it's current state with the possible exception of Overcharge, and Thana being killer dependent. That's the entire point of the post, as I'm beyond tired of being gaslit about them.
Yea I could see it as a sidegrade, but in the context of the version of game in which original Ruin existed, regression and killer overall is far stronger now. At that time, you really only had Ruin & Pop as strong regression, vs old Dead Hard, old DS, old BNP, fewer gen charges to complete, old medkits, old maps etc. I don't think its remotely close compared to the current game.
That works for good skill checks not great ones, doctor makes them harder to hit due to spawn location being different sometimes with his madness power.
Thing you miss is first og ruin was total noob stomper the biggest one in the entire game history you can do fine (or do gen with 0% progress by hitting greats if you dont make things up) but like the half of the survivor player base would be cooked and had to gen tap especialy with hex builds.
Now ruin slowly regresses gen but it did in stronger numbers before you made these complaints and better. Old ruin the og one means one good -5% of progress and missing great -10% or you had to gen tap which was very comfortable to do not to mention stoping regression now is harder (thank god) so you dont do it with gen tapping so bringing og ruin would destroy bigger half of the survivors you may think otherwise but I believe it would.
You doing well on skill checks is good for you but that doesnt mean all survivors do, old ruin was disgusting perk to go against and I hope perks like this so strong and passive wont be released in near future.
No, I said not including the strongest versions of the perks makes the list SEEM cherry-picked, not that you were intentionally doing that. I simply provided an additional data point since you said people are welcome to do that.
Every perk is "usable", but most are not good because they have been nerfed significantly from where they were actually powerful, like CoB and Overcharge for example.
Because killer needs what? ……time and theres only few ways how to get it either by building preasure which is getting fast downs, hooks, sluggs or tunneling someone out to reduce effectiveness of survivors and build more preasure.
Or killer can get time by regressing/blocking gens and this is why these perks after many nerfs and some being just half of what they used to be still being meta because killer has no other perks to buy time then this option or some endgame perks but these are few and are riskier then regression perks.
Killer needs time to get survivors and pop or pain res,ruin,deadlock are perks that give you more time for getting survivors out of the game and keep preasure then aura,chase perks thats why they are still meta and are almost on every build even in comp part killers run them a lot even the ones like eruption which is perk that is mere shadow of what it used to be and still is used.
Thats why, simular as why survivors run antihook perks and exhaustion just to buy time for their team and last longer theres nothing complicated to think about here.
you forgot that in the background all these perks besides ruin are affected by the 8 kick limit so surge and eruption are worse by default gen regression as a whole is nerfed
unless you're slugging and activating these perks repeatedly, you shouldn't be hitting that limit until you have 6-8 hooks, right? I would expect the game to be nearly over by that point, or at least down to a 3v1.
Guess what Behavior has been trying to prevent? Slugging and tunneling. Why? Because it's the go-to strategy, not gen slowdowns.
if your running surge in a small map or if survivors start running and get downed in a specific area in the range of surge not to mention if you kick the gen beforehand then down a survivor in that area with surge can happen in a game and you can quickly run through the stacks but i don't even like to slug that often either
I run Surge pretty often and I have occasionally hit the limit. Usually though its on a map like RPD where the chases cluster around the middle chokepoint. And by the time I hit the limit I've usually already won.
Eruption is the biggest offender (moreso than surge) because you need to do the initial kick to activate it and then the followup also eats a regression event. Its not USUALLY a problem, but if you're playing a killer/strategy that tends to stick to a strong area like a 3 gen its not that uncommon to see it hit the limit. To clarify, thats not me complaining about regression limits as a mechanic, but eruption is a bit of an outlier by a little bit and I wouldn't be too upset to see it buffed by not counting the followup towards the limit.
That’s because there are no other Perks that can serve as substitutes. Perks that assist with chases are, of course, valid options, but relying on them alone would cause the gate to open in five minutes, so you’re inevitably forced to bring Ruin & Undying—which is inherently unstable—or PoP, where you can’t be sure you’ll have time to kick.
How dare I "make up" stats by stating the exact time frames and game versions I compared and listing my source used in the original post.
He is here clearly just to cause arguments. All of his post so far has been just trying to insult others.
The problem your seeing, is even if you want to being old ruin back because you can hit mostly greats, the reason why it was changed probably because of casual players. I personally liked old ruin when I played survivor it felt like it was helping me improve
Pop was a definite buff in 9.5.0, it now always applies 18 charges of damage (on a normal gen with no BNP etc).
So on a generator with 89 charges that is 20% regression, but on a generator with 18 charges it's 100% regression and the gen is back to zero.
This argument appears to be built to downplay the severity of gen perk nerfs to create a narrative that the nerfs weren't really all that bad and that they should be nerfed more. I guess the game will never be easy enough for some people.