And apparently people are still saying killer is horrible to play
The numbers speak for themselves, not kill rates, not escape rates, actually the ratio of people queueing for killer vs survivor.
Yeah that’s the thing I don’t understand. Who is saying that killer is horrible to play? I play killer about half the time and it seems fine to me most of the time. I don’t play S-tier killers and I will get stomped if I’m facing a coordinated SWF team of skilled survivors, but overall it feels fine.
As you point out, the queue times for killer are horrible right now so clearly there are more than enough people who are very happy to queue up for killer. It’s getting to the point where I have a feeling BHVR may need to make some balance changes to incentivizing more people to play survivor. Unfortunately, when you buff survivors it buffs all of them including coordinated SWF teams that do not need any additional help. Coordinating on comms is a major advantage that I strongly feel needs to be somehow nerfed but I also understand that not every SWF is a sweaty bully squad that is annihilating killers. I don’t know how you only nerf the comp teams without overly punishing the casual teams. I think finding a way to do that is the real key to a golden state of balance in the gamers.
Yeah that’s the thing I don’t understand. Who is saying that killer is horrible to play? I play killer about half the time and it seems fine to me most of the time. I don’t play S-tier killers and I will get stomped if I’m facing a coordinated SWF team of skilled survivors, but overall it feels fine.
As you point out, the queue times for killer are horrible right now so clearly there are more than enough people who are very happy to queue up for killer. It’s getting to the point where I have a feeling BHVR may need to make some balance changes to incentivizing more people to play survivor. Unfortunately, when you buff survivors it buffs all of them including coordinated SWF teams that do not need any additional help. Coordinating on comms is a major advantage that I strongly feel needs to be somehow nerfed but I also understand that not every SWF is a sweaty bully squad that is annihilating killers. I don’t know how you only nerf the comp teams without overly punishing the casual teams. I think finding a way to do that is the real key to a golden state of balance in the gamers.
Mainly the claim comes from people who don't really know how to play killer well. They have used all the most boring tactics to get to the point where those don't work anymore when survivor players are just better. Then when they don't get the win they have been getting before that or getting it does demand some effort they start claiming its horrible to play. Some people want to just win without that much effort another product of the current "everything needs to happen now or got now" mentality. Patience is not a thing for some people anymore.
And apparently people are still saying killer is horrible to play
The numbers speak for themselves, not kill rates, not escape rates, actually the ratio of people queueing for killer vs survivor.
Because killer is horrible to play right out outside of the top 10-12 in the roster. Nothing is more boring than survivors just pre running to yellow and dropping providing as little chase interactivity as possible whenever you play a weaker killer. Pallet density along with slowdown nerfs really makes weaker killers unenjoyable to play.
Just because queue times are longer on killer (understandably so since the whole Jason stink going around) doesn't mean killer ISNT in a bad spot right now. So many powers feel out dated or just bad to use when there's a better version on another killer.
Because killer is horrible to play right out outside of the top 10-12 in the roster. Nothing is more boring than survivors just pre running to yellow and dropping providing as little chase interactivity as possible whenever you play a weaker killer. Pallet density along with slowdown nerfs really makes weaker killers unenjoyable to play.
Just because queue times are longer on killer (understandably so since the whole Jason stink going around) doesn't mean killer ISNT in a bad spot right now. So many powers feel out dated or just bad to use when there's a better version on another killer.
Outdated by what? Did survivors get faster? Maps, perks, items, gen speeds, are all weaker by far over the lifespan of the game. The only way these killers are "outdated" is by comparison to newer overtuned killers. And we can't ever just balance those overperforming killers right? We have to make all the killers just as overtuned as Ghoul and Jason right?
Surely that will make survivors feel like queueing up /s
Outdated by what? Did survivors get faster? Maps, perks, items, gen speeds, are all weaker by far over the lifespan of the game. The only way these killers are "outdated" is by comparison to newer overtuned killers. And we can't ever just balance those overperforming killers right? We have to make all the killers just as overtuned as Ghoul and Jason right?
Surely that will make survivors feel like queueing up /s
"Maps are weaker" ok go play clown vs pallet density. Pallet density is so mind numbingly boring to the point you can honestly get away with tide teching (throwing shack) at 5 gens against a lot of killers and you would honestly be fine. Maybe if resources felt like resources sure but currently no. Some killers just weren't baked with map pressure and chase power at the same time which you kind of need in modern dbd due to a lot of the slowdown being nerfed and or earned (unlike a lot of survivor perks). And the point was saying killer in general is in a bad spot. Do we really want people to play the same killers because of the current state of the game?
"Maps are weaker" ok go play clown vs pallet density. Pallet density is so mind numbingly boring to the point you can honestly get away with tide teching (throwing shack) at 5 gens against a lot of killers and you would honestly be fine. Maybe if resources felt like resources sure but currently no. Some killers just weren't baked with map pressure and chase power at the same time which you kind of need in modern dbd due to a lot of the slowdown being nerfed and or earned (unlike a lot of survivor perks). And the point was saying killer in general is in a bad spot. Do we really want people to play the same killers because of the current state of the game?
So like I said, killer queues are longer than ever and your solution is to buff more killers?
So like I said, killer queues are longer than ever and your solution is to buff more killers?
More killer diversity = more players willing to play survivor. I get that people don't like facing a small pool of killers and increasing that in general would be a help yes. The problem is getting people to WANT to play those killers. And you can't deny a LOT of killers need work even if "the queues" say otherwise.
More killer diversity = more players willing to play survivor. I get that people don't like facing a small pool of killers and increasing that in general would be a help yes. The problem is getting people to WANT to play those killers. And you can't deny a LOT of killers need work even if "the queues" say otherwise.
I don't think buffing every killer to Jason/Ghoul/Drac levels is going to raise survivor morale the way you think it will. I very much don't think it will.
I don't think buffing every killer to Jason/Ghoul/Drac levels is going to raise survivor morale the way you think it will. I very much don't think it will.
Who said we have to buff them to Jason or Ghoul levels? How about addon passes and small tweaks to make their kits feel more smooth. Like Hag could honestly be 115 after the removal of hook grabs and introduction of anti-camp. That's just one small change you could do to her. How about giving survivors a very small hinder just enough to where S tech doesn't guarantee you won't get hit out of trap lunge range. A killer feeling better to play would do wonders compared to it just being super strong.
I don't think buffing every killer to Jason/Ghoul/Drac levels is going to raise survivor morale the way you think it will. I very much don't think it will.
One quote from Otz is a good one to apply here: S tiers like Nurse should not be the template for killer balance because you will have no way to give someone like Trapper a Dash or Teleport and justify it not killing their identity. Slaughtering Strike is a prime example of this.
If any killer imo should be the template for killer balance, let it be Wesker. He is a perfect mix of strong and fun.
I do wanna add to this saying I really hope my girl Pig can get a buff to her RBTs. It genuinely seems like every time they buff her it's always towards her Ambush special attack when her main source of pressure is her RBTs which get progressively weaker with each change.
And apparently people are still saying killer is horrible to play
The numbers speak for themselves, not kill rates, not escape rates, actually the ratio of people queueing for killer vs survivor.
im not of the opinion that killer is horrible to play but a novelty mode that is very different from the regualr experience can be popular even if the role wasnt in great shape for the regular mode. an unbalanced casual heavily modified mode being popular has no bearing on whether the very different mode and experience of killer is in a good state.
this argument is not a good one and im suprised even biased people would try and use this one.
That server has whole east, north, southeast and south europe on it. So its not a surprise.
Worst thing is that every other 2v8 its worse and worse, when the first one came I remember queue time to be 15 minutes or around 15, then it get to 20, then to 30 and now its 41-50 minutes.
Atleast at night time at 1v4 when theres no 2v8 I have instant queue time from few seconds to 1 minute.
One quote from Otz is a good one to apply here: S tiers like Nurse should not be the template for killer balance because you will have no way to give someone like Trapper a Dash or Teleport and justify it not killing their identity. Slaughtering Strike is a prime example of this.
If any killer imo should be the template for killer balance, let it be Wesker. He is a perfect mix of strong and fun.
I do wanna add to this saying I really hope my girl Pig can get a buff to her RBTs. It genuinely seems like every time they buff her it's always towards her Ambush special attack when her main source of pressure is her RBTs which get progressively weaker with each change.
Pig is lost case since they nerfed her hardest in 2018, let me tell you they wont buff head traps because survivors hate it its unfun for majority I believe (especialy the lower part that have no clue what to do against killers that are barely played). So they aim with ambust to be like demos or pinheads main powers and head traps to be secondary power but thing is her dash is garbage only works on loops that are super unsafe and can be easily mindgamed. She screams before she dashes or makes loud sound so everyone can avoid it.
He new change what I heard will be new chase music because thats what she needs the most.
Personaly I droped her asap after I got her achives because she is terrible just pure m1 with m2 that is worst m2 special attack in the entire game probably, her stealth is bad unless gen yo ucoming for is cowered by some walls, only thing she stands for her is slowdown from traps but becuase her chase is terrible you wont get that much of a value from them when you would need against survivors that can loop and arent bad. With pig you dont have anything unique except her traps but thats for survivors you are just m1 killer that can crouch and its bad.
I don't think buffing every killer to Jason/Ghoul/Drac levels is going to raise survivor morale the way you think it will. I very much don't think it will.
Have to agree. I'm only one person, but i quit survivor completely for several months after Ghoul's release. When i started playing it again, it was only for quests because i realized in that several month break that the easiest way to counter the power creep was just to avoid playing against it lol I can't give advice on what I think would draw me back to the role because honestly I'm too apathetic at this point. It is what it is.
One quote from Otz is a good one to apply here: S tiers like Nurse should not be the template for killer balance because you will have no way to give someone like Trapper a Dash or Teleport and justify it not killing their identity. Slaughtering Strike is a prime example of this.
If any killer imo should be the template for killer balance, let it be Wesker. He is a perfect mix of strong and fun.
I do wanna add to this saying I really hope my girl Pig can get a buff to her RBTs. It genuinely seems like every time they buff her it's always towards her Ambush special attack when her main source of pressure is her RBTs which get progressively weaker with each change.
Yeah Myers was one of my most played killers until his rework. IMO they ruined what made him unique.
Disagree re Pig though (another of my mains). I prefer they improve her chase and leave her RBTs passive
Have to agree. I'm only one person, but i quit survivor completely for several months after Ghoul's release. When i started playing it again, it was only for quests because i realized in that several month break that the easiest way to counter the power creep was just to avoid playing against it lol I can't give advice on what I think would draw me back to the role because honestly I'm too apathetic at this point. It is what it is.
can you explain what exactly is overpowered about ghoul compared to any of the actual top tiers?
he has a free injure and a decent mobility power, but otherwise he's basically pure m1. theres like a dozen insanely good ghoul players who can fairly reliably chain power into m1 but they are not the ghoul you are meeting regularly in soloq
most games i play against ghoul i see soloq players who simply do not revault, do not predrop against him, heal constantly, and try run for distance instead of employing any of his counterplay. i'm not even sure what you can do to nerf the guy without totally reworking him, he simply doesn't have much going for him
can you explain what exactly is overpowered about ghoul compared to any of the actual top tiers?
he has a free injure and a decent mobility power, but otherwise he's basically pure m1. theres like a dozen insanely good ghoul players who can fairly reliably chain power into m1 but they are not the ghoul you are meeting regularly in soloq
most games i play against ghoul i see soloq players who simply do not revault, do not predrop against him, heal constantly, and try run for distance instead of employing any of his counterplay. i'm not even sure what you can do to nerf the guy without totally reworking him, he simply doesn't have much going for him
Never said anything about overpowered, i said power creep. And re Ghoul - getting hit constantly through walls every game was enough for me to put my controller down. I've heard this has been fixed but my interest in survivor is gone, so I don't need Ghoul advice.
Yeah Myers was one of my most played killers until his rework. IMO they ruined what made him unique.
Disagree re Pig though (another of my mains). I prefer they improve her chase and leave her RBTs passive
I'll at least give Myers a pass since even though I hate Slaughtering Strike since its just a power crept Hillbilly power, Tuft of Hair restores his old kit and I do prefer the stance system over the old stalking mechanic since you get to toggle stealth on and off instead of lose it quickly.
In regard to Pig, her RBTs are her built-in slowdown which is what made her decent in defense since it forces people away from gens and buys her time. You can prefer Ambush over the RBTs, but they have stripped away a lot of their power to the point where she can't even see her boxes anymore to patrol them, and we almost had their duration increased to 3 minutes from 2 1/2.
Never said anything about overpowered, i said power creep. And re Ghoul - getting hit constantly through walls every game was enough for me to put my controller down. I've heard this has been fixed but my interest in survivor is gone, so I don't need Ghoul advice.
As someone whose been on the receiving end of getting Kagune'd through stuff, I will put this on the fact that Ghoul is the only killer in the game rn with a hitscan power.
They could easily solve this issue by just putting survivor groups against randomized AI killers.
That won't solve anything, plus the game's AI has built-in wallhacks to compensate for not being a human meaning it'll just B-line to each person's location. Not to mention it'll either be too easy to loop by people who've dealt with survivor bots, or too hard since the built-in wallhacks make hiding completely useless.
That won't solve anything, plus the game's AI has built-in wallhacks to compensate for not being a human meaning it'll just B-line to each person's location. Not to mention it'll either be too easy to loop by people who've dealt with survivor bots, or too hard since the built-in wallhacks make hiding completely useless.
It would with AI survivors also. The idea is to blend AI with human teams to break the bottlenecks. But also, we already have wallhacks aka aura reads in the game. The only difference between the AI and a human player is the AI has better pathing.
I'll at least give Myers a pass since even though I hate Slaughtering Strike since its just a power crept Hillbilly power, Tuft of Hair restores his old kit and I do prefer the stance system over the old stalking mechanic since you get to toggle stealth on and off instead of lose it quickly.
In regard to Pig, her RBTs are her built-in slowdown which is what made her decent in defense since it forces people away from gens and buys her time. You can prefer Ambush over the RBTs, but they have stripped away a lot of their power to the point where she can't even see her boxes anymore to patrol them, and we almost had their duration increased to 3 minutes from 2 1/2.
As someone whose been on the receiving end of getting Kagune'd through stuff, I will put this on the fact that Ghoul is the only killer in the game rn with a hitscan power.
It's not that I prefer Ambush, it's that I prefer RBTs working passively in the background as slowdown. Head pops are simply a nice bonus when they happen (i do like to encourage them though, my preferred add ons are Tampered Timer and Rule Set No 2). When it comes to Pig, I doubt that future changes will involve both Ambush and RBTs. It'll be one or the other imo. I feel like them removing her being able to see boxes was intentionally done because the devs want people to focus on untrapped survivors, in which case I'd hope any buffs revolve around improving chase so she can more efficiently focus on the untrapped.
It would with AI survivors also. The idea is to blend AI with human teams to break the bottlenecks. But also, we already have wallhacks aka aura reads in the game. The only difference between the AI and a human player is the AI has better pathing.
Players didn't sign up to play with/against bots.
This was tried in 2v8 despite backlash and resulted in almost no impact on queue times. As bots were added, fewer real survivor players were willing to queue. And I don't blame them because reasons #1 & #3.
The bots are terrible. Surprise, AI coded by developers who largely don't play their own game ends up not being very helpful. The vast majority of matches where a survivor DC's immediately are going to be a loss because the bots get stunlocked by the slightest terror radius, don't understand complex plays like body blocking, hook trading, or coordinating end game saves, and are easily manipulated into uselessness by things like proxy camping. The only thing they really excel at is drawing out a match the killer has already won by farming survivor players off hook. Despite all these obvious weaknesses, they were also PURPOSELY made significantly worse in chase (it was included in patch notes).
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Comments
Looks about right for when 2v8 is live, unfortunately.
Except for Germany, goddamn! That's pretty rough even for 2v8.
And apparently people are still saying killer is horrible to play
The numbers speak for themselves, not kill rates, not escape rates, actually the ratio of people queueing for killer vs survivor.
It was still 3+ minutes on killer before 2v8, but this is not even worth playing with 2v8 on.
I mean this is why the queue while you wait method was added right? Does alleviate this slightly.
Yeah that’s the thing I don’t understand. Who is saying that killer is horrible to play? I play killer about half the time and it seems fine to me most of the time. I don’t play S-tier killers and I will get stomped if I’m facing a coordinated SWF team of skilled survivors, but overall it feels fine.
As you point out, the queue times for killer are horrible right now so clearly there are more than enough people who are very happy to queue up for killer. It’s getting to the point where I have a feeling BHVR may need to make some balance changes to incentivizing more people to play survivor. Unfortunately, when you buff survivors it buffs all of them including coordinated SWF teams that do not need any additional help. Coordinating on comms is a major advantage that I strongly feel needs to be somehow nerfed but I also understand that not every SWF is a sweaty bully squad that is annihilating killers. I don’t know how you only nerf the comp teams without overly punishing the casual teams. I think finding a way to do that is the real key to a golden state of balance in the gamers.
Mainly the claim comes from people who don't really know how to play killer well. They have used all the most boring tactics to get to the point where those don't work anymore when survivor players are just better. Then when they don't get the win they have been getting before that or getting it does demand some effort they start claiming its horrible to play. Some people want to just win without that much effort another product of the current "everything needs to happen now or got now" mentality. Patience is not a thing for some people anymore.
The only sad thing is that there are this less servers and BHVR thinks this game is AAA.
Because killer is horrible to play right out outside of the top 10-12 in the roster. Nothing is more boring than survivors just pre running to yellow and dropping providing as little chase interactivity as possible whenever you play a weaker killer. Pallet density along with slowdown nerfs really makes weaker killers unenjoyable to play.
Just because queue times are longer on killer (understandably so since the whole Jason stink going around) doesn't mean killer ISNT in a bad spot right now. So many powers feel out dated or just bad to use when there's a better version on another killer.
Outdated by what? Did survivors get faster? Maps, perks, items, gen speeds, are all weaker by far over the lifespan of the game. The only way these killers are "outdated" is by comparison to newer overtuned killers. And we can't ever just balance those overperforming killers right? We have to make all the killers just as overtuned as Ghoul and Jason right?
Surely that will make survivors feel like queueing up /s
"Maps are weaker" ok go play clown vs pallet density. Pallet density is so mind numbingly boring to the point you can honestly get away with tide teching (throwing shack) at 5 gens against a lot of killers and you would honestly be fine. Maybe if resources felt like resources sure but currently no. Some killers just weren't baked with map pressure and chase power at the same time which you kind of need in modern dbd due to a lot of the slowdown being nerfed and or earned (unlike a lot of survivor perks). And the point was saying killer in general is in a bad spot. Do we really want people to play the same killers because of the current state of the game?
So like I said, killer queues are longer than ever and your solution is to buff more killers?
More killer diversity = more players willing to play survivor. I get that people don't like facing a small pool of killers and increasing that in general would be a help yes. The problem is getting people to WANT to play those killers. And you can't deny a LOT of killers need work even if "the queues" say otherwise.
I don't think buffing every killer to Jason/Ghoul/Drac levels is going to raise survivor morale the way you think it will. I very much don't think it will.
Its 2v8..What do you expect?
Who said we have to buff them to Jason or Ghoul levels? How about addon passes and small tweaks to make their kits feel more smooth. Like Hag could honestly be 115 after the removal of hook grabs and introduction of anti-camp. That's just one small change you could do to her. How about giving survivors a very small hinder just enough to where S tech doesn't guarantee you won't get hit out of trap lunge range. A killer feeling better to play would do wonders compared to it just being super strong.
Nothing makes evening more special then 50 minutes queue time.
That server has whole east, north, southeast and south europe on it. So its not a surprise.
One quote from Otz is a good one to apply here: S tiers like Nurse should not be the template for killer balance because you will have no way to give someone like Trapper a Dash or Teleport and justify it not killing their identity. Slaughtering Strike is a prime example of this.
If any killer imo should be the template for killer balance, let it be Wesker. He is a perfect mix of strong and fun.
I do wanna add to this saying I really hope my girl Pig can get a buff to her RBTs. It genuinely seems like every time they buff her it's always towards her Ambush special attack when her main source of pressure is her RBTs which get progressively weaker with each change.
im not of the opinion that killer is horrible to play but a novelty mode that is very different from the regualr experience can be popular even if the role wasnt in great shape for the regular mode. an unbalanced casual heavily modified mode being popular has no bearing on whether the very different mode and experience of killer is in a good state.
this argument is not a good one and im suprised even biased people would try and use this one.
Worst thing is that every other 2v8 its worse and worse, when the first one came I remember queue time to be 15 minutes or around 15, then it get to 20, then to 30 and now its 41-50 minutes.
Atleast at night time at 1v4 when theres no 2v8 I have instant queue time from few seconds to 1 minute.
Pig is lost case since they nerfed her hardest in 2018, let me tell you they wont buff head traps because survivors hate it its unfun for majority I believe (especialy the lower part that have no clue what to do against killers that are barely played). So they aim with ambust to be like demos or pinheads main powers and head traps to be secondary power but thing is her dash is garbage only works on loops that are super unsafe and can be easily mindgamed. She screams before she dashes or makes loud sound so everyone can avoid it.
He new change what I heard will be new chase music because thats what she needs the most.
Personaly I droped her asap after I got her achives because she is terrible just pure m1 with m2 that is worst m2 special attack in the entire game probably, her stealth is bad unless gen yo ucoming for is cowered by some walls, only thing she stands for her is slowdown from traps but becuase her chase is terrible you wont get that much of a value from them when you would need against survivors that can loop and arent bad. With pig you dont have anything unique except her traps but thats for survivors you are just m1 killer that can crouch and its bad.
If 2v8 is survivor-sided, why are killer queues so long? Needs more survivor buffs if you ask me. Like, alot more.
Have to agree. I'm only one person, but i quit survivor completely for several months after Ghoul's release. When i started playing it again, it was only for quests because i realized in that several month break that the easiest way to counter the power creep was just to avoid playing against it lol I can't give advice on what I think would draw me back to the role because honestly I'm too apathetic at this point. It is what it is.
Yeah Myers was one of my most played killers until his rework. IMO they ruined what made him unique.
Disagree re Pig though (another of my mains). I prefer they improve her chase and leave her RBTs passive
can you explain what exactly is overpowered about ghoul compared to any of the actual top tiers?
he has a free injure and a decent mobility power, but otherwise he's basically pure m1. theres like a dozen insanely good ghoul players who can fairly reliably chain power into m1 but they are not the ghoul you are meeting regularly in soloq
most games i play against ghoul i see soloq players who simply do not revault, do not predrop against him, heal constantly, and try run for distance instead of employing any of his counterplay. i'm not even sure what you can do to nerf the guy without totally reworking him, he simply doesn't have much going for him
Never said anything about overpowered, i said power creep. And re Ghoul - getting hit constantly through walls every game was enough for me to put my controller down. I've heard this has been fixed but my interest in survivor is gone, so I don't need Ghoul advice.
I'll at least give Myers a pass since even though I hate Slaughtering Strike since its just a power crept Hillbilly power, Tuft of Hair restores his old kit and I do prefer the stance system over the old stalking mechanic since you get to toggle stealth on and off instead of lose it quickly.
In regard to Pig, her RBTs are her built-in slowdown which is what made her decent in defense since it forces people away from gens and buys her time. You can prefer Ambush over the RBTs, but they have stripped away a lot of their power to the point where she can't even see her boxes anymore to patrol them, and we almost had their duration increased to 3 minutes from 2 1/2.
As someone whose been on the receiving end of getting Kagune'd through stuff, I will put this on the fact that Ghoul is the only killer in the game rn with a hitscan power.
They could easily solve this issue by just putting survivor groups against randomized AI killers.
That won't solve anything, plus the game's AI has built-in wallhacks to compensate for not being a human meaning it'll just B-line to each person's location. Not to mention it'll either be too easy to loop by people who've dealt with survivor bots, or too hard since the built-in wallhacks make hiding completely useless.
It would with AI survivors also. The idea is to blend AI with human teams to break the bottlenecks. But also, we already have wallhacks aka aura reads in the game. The only difference between the AI and a human player is the AI has better pathing.
It's not that I prefer Ambush, it's that I prefer RBTs working passively in the background as slowdown. Head pops are simply a nice bonus when they happen (i do like to encourage them though, my preferred add ons are Tampered Timer and Rule Set No 2). When it comes to Pig, I doubt that future changes will involve both Ambush and RBTs. It'll be one or the other imo. I feel like them removing her being able to see boxes was intentionally done because the devs want people to focus on untrapped survivors, in which case I'd hope any buffs revolve around improving chase so she can more efficiently focus on the untrapped.