esarraf
esarraf
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114580#Comment_4114580
So quick gambit lets others see you coming? Cause that seems like a new one to me. Also sure bond doesn't tell the others where you and the killer are. Both those tell you and you alone no? And when sometimes you might need to go towards others, like say death hook, others can at least either get outta the way or try and help without requiring either or ducking at the first heartbeat. It doesn't mater who the killer is, what matters is the where. Is it a great perk? No, is there a point to run it? Occasionally. But keep thinking everythings "hot garbage", i can at least see usefulness.
They don't need to see you coming since that gives no value. The only thing that matters is making sure you aren't leading the killer to gens simple as that.
But you at the very least came up with theoretical reasons why someone would run it. None of them hold up to any level of scrutiny but it'll be fun to discuss them.
First off, bond lets you lead the killer away from someone who is on death hook, second instead of salvation's cry you can run shoulder the burden to prevent someone from being on death hook. Let's not forget the massive opportunity cost of running salvation's cry over other perks. Third, by the time someone is on death hook unless they are being tunneled out of the game at five gens you should already know where safe areas are. Killer's aren't going to the corner of the map with finished gens lol so you can pretty reasonably tell where the killer is and will be coming from.
Next there's the issue of you saying it doesn't matter who the killer is, because that's just wrong on so many levels. A bunch of killers have undetectable as part of their power so this perk just does not work on like a third of the killer roster or is unreliable at best. Let's not even get into the issue of undetectable perks because there's the even bigger issue of killers like ghoul, blight, and Jason who can go from one end of the map to another in a matter of seconds making any information the perk gave moot. Let's not forget it's minuscule reveal duration after all.
It's a perk that does nothing in let's be generous and say only 90% of games because the killer is straight up immune to it or can render it irrelevant due to high movement speed. It's value only comes from slow basic killers that have no undetectable, can't move fast, and can't teleport. In other words it's usable against like… Trapper, Bubba, and Plague.
Compare this to the previously mentioned bond. A perk that is always active. A perk that makes it so you won't lead the killer to generators being worked on or survivors on death hook, and gives you information that can be acted on in or out of chase. While Salvation's cry is unreliable as it requires a significant number of killers and perks to not be in play, it requires you to be the one in chase, it's information gets worse the longer chase goes on as you move through the maps leading to potential situations where because you gave people info earlier they may not realize where the chase has moved and erroneously think an area is safe, it turns off after only a few seconds so most people can't even get value out of it, and most of the time it will not give any value whatsoever to anyone as people should be focusing on getting gens done not worrying about what side of the map killer is on.
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Boons are still only usable in swf sadly. Otherwise it's just not worth running. They haven't really been usable for a long time and the new boon is not gonna change that fact. Seriously who thought steadfast was a good idea? A boon typically only touches one generator, it just makes no sense with how the perk is designed. And that's not even going into how horrible illumination has been since release.
I think they need to buff a lot of the boons. Exponential and shadow step are actually fine but the others are just so underwhelming for what boons ask in terms of time investment.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114534#Comment_4114534
Actually it gives solos periodic advanced warning about where the killer is and what's probably getting used. Tells me that atleast when ppl run it
Wow, stuff that's check notes better done by running quick gambit and just not leading the killer to the survivors. Or bond, a perk that's on a starting character. Survivors know who the killer is after first chase so you will have to explain to me how survivors who are not in chase get value from knowing where the killer is. Because they should be on generators not just messing around trying to go for sabo or flashlight saves, both of which got heavily crippled by the new killer totally negating them.
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Honestly speaking Salvation's cry is hot garbage so I don't even think flipping it would change anything. There's no real point in running it currently.
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@sadakomura65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113883#Comment_4113883
Im talking about her version after the first rework. That version did NOT hold games hostage for an hour yet got nuked for no reason.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113903#Comment_4113903
Okay, again. While that version could not hold the game hostage for an hour. They could hold it for an incredibly long time which was the issue.
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@MrBuffalo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113829#Comment_4113829
god that sounds awful
Yet also not too far from the truth. Compared to modern killer which is just like. Hook a survivor then look vaguely towards a generator to blow it up.
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@Mentally_Mechanical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113883#Comment_4113883
That hour long game was one instance, not something she could do every game. Also, did you forget that that was her original version, not the first rework that she received? The first rework had none of these issues, yet that wasn't enough to appease the loud voices.
Okay, again it's the whole even if she could no longer hold a game hostage she could still stall it for a stupidly long time.
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@sadakomura65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/471885/vigil-absolutely-massacred
Skull Merchant also got massacred and still is to this day yet no one cares
Skull Merchant got killed because she was literally holding games hostage for over an hour and even with the gen regression limit could easily make a game last more than a half hour. If they can make her power stronger without making it so it's the most tedious thing to play against by all means buff her.
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@TheWeakestKnightMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113618#Comment_4113618
Knight already had so much counter play. Why does he need more?
Because the counterplay was do nothing for a long time.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113589#Comment_4113589
If you hook person a and then person b it’s no tunneling. Tunneling means hooking only the same survivor multiple times in a row wich isn’t the case there and it has nothing to do with the post
Don't think you understand basics of how the game works but you do you.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113387#Comment_4113387
still impossible to tunnel with bbq since you hook person a then hook person b to find person a again and it isn’t tunneling because you hooked someone else. But thats not the topic of this post.
Nah, just proxy camp, hook whever came to trade and then go after the person who was just unhooked. It's extremely easy to tunnel someone even if you hook someone in between.
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Yeah, I get what you mean. I wish scavenger was usable but it's just not since getting five great skill checks typically takes so long the game is over by that point. However I don't think their rarity has changed.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113398#Comment_4113398
Why are you commenting like that attitude?
It is okay to agree to disagree. You have no idea how experienced I am with her. But if you mean in general. Yeah ofc you gotta train using her power, adjust the sensetivity in the power charging and find the spot you are good with her Divine of light.
I agree she is very good where she is now! There could just be small changes. Have you ever noticed after charging the power, before the M1 is ready to use, her Animation is done the M1 is ready? This is why players drop pallets in a close chase. Because it looks like the judgement is ready to M1 you.
The M1 cooldown after charging power could be decreased 1.5 or 2 seconds.
All the other add-on ideas is just ideas to make her stronger and even more interesting. Most killers have power cooldown recovery faster for their add-on. She dosen't
Having one of the add-on basekit where the pillar get aimed back to you. And injuring Heresy survivors, should be a basekit. Also heard other players say that.
But yeah we'll see how she is for people in the future. And I know BHVR will changd her up in the upcoming patch like the rest of the killers have been. I am just suggesting small stuff if they even like my ideas after playing hours with her. And hoping they don't nerf her in any way.
There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Okay, first off the Devs have gone on record saying that the Judgment is going to require more skill to be good at. And given that you are asking for major buffs on a killer that has been out for less than a month leads me to believe that you don't really want to get good at them or understand how to play them and just want another easy to play killer. It's why it was just an honest recommendation not 'attitude' to play one of the other forty something killers if you'd like to play something easy.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113322#Comment_4113322
Did you read it all before commenting?
I am just saying a few things could change to make this killer more playable/picked.
The cooldown to M1 after charging or using power could be shorter.
The Zealous mode could be more valued.
Using the Divine of light could be changed up a bit. So not everyone do the same playstyle.
Yes she has her difficulties that is great! We have to learn how to adapt to each killer to learn their potential. I am still learning her, and using different way to charge the power to land hits in chases.
I am not saying I want her to become much more easier. But some stuff could be basekit for a more creative complex playstyle.
Dude, they are already playable they are just harder to play. Once again they are a perfectly good killer who is strong you just need to be good at the game. They aren't Jason or Ghoul you need to actually try to play the game if you want to win.
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Bro if you want to play an easy killer just go play ghoul, let people that actually want a minor level of difficulty have a good killer.
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@cammoking123 said:
I read diminishing returns doesn't work on four slowdowns. Like what? Isn't that what diminishing returns is for?
It'd be better if gen slowdown perks reduced the gen regression limit given how they all tend to work at different times. Sure you can still run four slowdown perks but you can only damage a gen twice.
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@abusterz said:
Just to clarify
I just want to clear up one thing about my original post.
It's not trying to make these situations worse for Killer players, and I'm definitely not saying Survivors should just get extra advantages whenever they're losing.
What I'm really trying to do is improve the late-game experience for both sides.
If a Killer creates a strong 3-gen, wins their chases, manages their resources well, and eventually wins the match, that's completely fair. I have no problem with that.
What I'm questioning is whether it's really a good experience for the Killer either to spend another 20–30 minutes patrolling the same three generators over and over, or standing over a downed Survivor while waiting for the last Survivor to show up.The Killer might be winning during that time, but winning doesn't necessarily mean the gameplay is fun or engaging.
So I'm not really suggesting we should buff Survivors or nerf Killers.
I'm suggesting that there could be some kind of late-game system that kicks in when a match gets stuck in an extreme stalemate, and helps both sides get back to actually playing the game.
Game should be something we enjoy playing, not something we feel like we're being forced to endure.
Just to clarify, killers don't need to make a 3 gen. Like, you can just camp three gens at the start of a match.
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@T1MEXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113055#Comment_4113055
I'm not so sure, we have never been able to run 5 perks so the combinations will be even bigger. 8 perks would be unplayable for both sides. Killers would run 8 gen perks and make it impossible to win. Survivors would run 8 meta perks and make it impossible to win. I know what you mean but I believe this will be great for both sides, now you can run 4 perks + Windows of Oppotunity.
So what? Did you think my little oni was balanced as well? Who cares if it's a mess what's important is it's fun.
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@T1MEXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112601#Comment_4112601
Wow I thought you meant survivors not perks. Playing it safe is a good start though, that might be a bit much 😂
Uhh… sorry but no. If it's a wacky crazy event that's super chaotic you'll get a lot of people super interested in it and seeing it come back. If it's just like… oooh one extra perk you'll get a few people to play it and no one will care to see it back since it's almost essentially the same as the regular game mode.
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@hermitkermit said:
Hmm.. I think two things can be true at once here. On one hand , having a killer like the Judgment is refreshing compared to some of the more recent styles we’ve gotten. Certainly new and brings a different way to engage entirely for both as and against, which is something I think the game needed. A very cool killer.
On the other hand, I can agree that simply by how she works it does further limit perk choices, and does so in a very stale meta that has gotten quite a few major perks nerfed recently which tightens the perk choices even more.
It’s true that Judgment is not the first to do this, as there are plenty of instances where you may bring a perk that is not useful because of the killer or even the map. It’s part of the RNG. But I do also agree that I don’t think it’d be a particularly healthy step forward in the game if this happened more frequently. There’s certainly a difference between a perk that won’t get you a lot of value because of RNG and a perk that can’t even be activated because of RNG, and because survivors can’t see which killer they are facing it does significantly impact them in a different way.
I can understand how something like SB was overtuned and deemed unhealthy for the game because it tended to shut down interactions with many m1 killers. But in the same way, the Judgment does the same thing with many survivor perks, but I don’t the answer is nerfing them, I think their strength should be strong because of the skill it takes to use it.
Perhaps this is more of a Nurse situation where it probably wouldn’t be healthy to use either Nurse or Judgment as a benchmark of balance and strive to create more killers like them because they change the game and shutdown interactions in such a distinctive way, but the skill expression required to do well with them kind of gives them a pass.
A bit rambly here but I just don’t think there’s an easy answer. I think the Judgment is really cool, I love the change of pace they bring to the game, and I don’t think they need to be nerfed. Frankly a small buff may be in order for help with close range. But I can’t just ignore that they do shut down many perks, and I’ve never really been a fan of that because survivor perks are the survivors “power” and in the same way it isn’t enjoyable for a m1 killer power to struggle because of certain perks, it isn’t enjoyable for a quarter or so of your “power” to be dead on arrival through no fault of your own.
The easy answer is to just let survivors see who the killer is in the lobby. Gonna get flak for this but it's stupid that killers main power just fully removes multiple builds that were never that strong to begin with. All this does is force a gen rush meta even more which is boring and the Judgement as a killer is actually super fun to go against for the most part. Will this change the meta? Yes. Will this make killers pick something other than nurse and blight? Also yes because yeah I know people will dodge lobbies. Will this almost instantly solve the issue of people dcing and giving up instantly? Also yes since people will know what they are getting into before they ready up. But it does mean we'll probably have to buff several killers and rework old outdated perks which people will complain about.
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All they needed to do was change it so it recharges while working on generators. People who complained about people only ratting with it are happy since they are now progressing the game and people who like to be stealthy are happy since they no longer need to be in chase. And like you said new players are able to stay alive a bit better.
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Let's be honest. Even if the numbers were permanent would anyone actually run it over quick gambit? Seriously there's no reason to run salvation's cry over it.
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@Elan said:
You can play around auras, rather go against aura than full slowdown.
Unless it's nurse.
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Like 90% of people just went to lithe which is kinda funny. Who could have guessed that completely killing the perk would result in this?
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It's
@jesterkind said:
Oh hey, this thread's back lol
I'll update my thoughts about Steadfast, then. I think the devs made the right call in moving away from specifically permanent progress and towards a different method of protecting gen progress, I think that's the smartest way to still fulfill the broad brief without clinging to the one specific word that made this perk really difficult to balance.
And, in fact, this new version of the perk seems pretty decent. 10% repair speed is nothing to sneeze at for yourself, plus it buffs your teammates, plus it slows regression. Not bad for a boon, and it pairs nicely with other boons for different reasons, so plenty to like. Not amazing, but far from terrible.
That said, I had the same opinion during the PTB that I have now, which is that I wish it leaned further into reducing killer slowdown. Instead of slowing the rate of regression, I'd love to see this perk halve generator explosion percentages and generator blocking durations for gens in its radius, as a more direct counter to the current meta.
Killers got a similar tool in Under Your Thumb that could, hopefully, put some pressure on perk choices to diversify the meta. Steadfast doing the same for slowdown would be a really nice pair to that, without requiring perk nerfs or sweeping mechanical changes to broaden perk variety in the meta.I think you suggested a great idea, regression slowdown is pretty meaningless. If it protected generators from blocking and explosions it'd be slightly more viable but it'd still run into the issue that 9/10 times if you just spent the time blessing on the generator you could just have finished it. Because simply put the range on boons is far too small so the majority of the time you'll only be affecting one generator which kinda makes it a bit awful. I think if it increased the range slightly it could be usable but it's just mechanically a bad perk due to how map generation works to the point that I think the only way this boon could be viable is if it made it so any generators in it's range (aka 1) cannot be regressed under any circumstance until the boon is snuffed.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112656#Comment_4112656
I agree with a lot of these, however a lot of these change how the perk works and as my post says I restricted myself to only changing numbers and perhaps removing functions, not adding or changing them. If the change to the perk includes some kind of functionality change or addition, then it's something new that needs to be coded and it's no longer a quick and easy change. As I said in the post, these are not ideal changes for these perks, a lot of them are just temporary before they can properly be given the time needed to put them in their ideal state.
As for the other suggestions:
I did not propose removing the injured requirement of Deadline (if that is even an easy change) because that means it's permanently active, which could be concerning with Hyperfocus + Stake Out builds. As Deadline is now, it is mainly used in conjunction with Autodidact so I elected to just buff the numbers. Honestly don't know what the ideal state of this perk is even supposed to be, maybe removing the injured requirement would be fine if they fixed the Hyperfocus issue.
There are actually a fair amount of high skill players that swear Rapid Response is a decent perk, as it gives you aura on the killer on demand if you run it with something like Lithe or Dramaturgy along with Eyes of Belmont. However, I think even taking Eyes of Belmont into account, this perk definitely could be 6s or so which is a nice middle ground.
For Specialist, I agree that it could be a little bit higher, although I would be scared about putting it as high as 8% even if it's only powerful in a goofy chest build, especially when there is the possibility of making a generator permanently 48% done with one skill check. I think I'll put it up to 7% which already almost doubles the value, while reducing the max Tokens to 3 so that only 21% can be deposited at a time, which is similar to the current 24%.
For deadline, I'm gonna be honest with you, it does not matter. Thanks to diminishing returns the increased skill check bonus is not going to be that much. It's just make other perks like autodidact or scavanger more viable since honestly I can't imagine most people will even be able to hit deadline hyperfocus skillchecks.
Rapid Response is bad, I'm sorry but if you want info on the killer scene partner or alert outclasses it so much. Like listen to what your saying. For it to be viable you need to run eyes of belmont, when you can just… run two different perks to get a good effect instead of two perks to get one good effect.
And Specialist would be fine. Spending like two minutes to open every chest around the map to get a lot of progress on one generator is fine. There should be alternate playstyles that are actually viable. Like, think about if there was a killer perk that reduced the amount of progress needed on a gen by half but it took a survivor out of the game for the first two minutes of the match. I promise you that would be meta instantly.
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Yeah they nerfed maps a long time ago. I really hate the fact they nerfed maps, and keys, and fog vials. And with the new killer flashlights are even more useless than previously before and sabo toolboxes. It's like they want everyone to only use medkits and genrush.
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Reading some of these over and there's still a few issues I can see from survivor side.
Deadline's problem comes from the injury requirement, remove that and the perk will be perfectly fine.
Rapid Response just needs an entirely new effect or to make the aura reveal much longer. Like 3 seconds of killers aura is almost nothing considering you'll typically get exhaustion in chase and can literally see where the killer is most of the time. Maybe upping it to ten seconds would make it more viable.
Treacherous crows needs to give everyone the calm spirit effect at minimum, the duration is not the issue but the fact the perk literally cannot be used in chase ever which is also the only time it can really be used due to the tr requirement.
Low Profile also needs a different activation requirement as it's only useful if you are planning to rat and in that case sole survivor is already so much better in every way. I'd change it to when all other survivors are dying, on hook, or injured. That way it's actually possible to use as everyone is being injured is at least semi plausible rather than the circumstances of everyone being dead or dying especially given how weak the actual effect is.
Specialist could probably be increased to 7~8%, chest builds are horrible and in dire need of buffs. An extra 1% is not going to make this perk usable since it still requires you to be in a 4 man swf with everyone bringing coins and seriously there are far worse things a coordinated 4man can do besides a chest build.
Teamwork soft spoken has the same issue as technician where it does nothing to reduce the sound of the generator itself which makes it fundamentally useless as any killer with a brain is going to hear the gen with a ton of progress and kick it. Changing it so it just makes the repair sound and generator quieter would be the only way to make this viable.
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How about this? If you are hard of hearing then everything is muted since you don't need audio anyway and instead there are vague markers that show up if you are currently hearing an injured survivor.
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Bro that's just a hacker.
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Honestly? I think it's fine. It's the one detection perk that trumps undetectable and I think it fills that niche fairly well while not being too strong.
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Actually I find it a lot more fun. It's far more interactive than a lot of other killers with ranged abilities since it's a bit more telegraphed so the killer having horrible ping is not as impactful since they can only curve it so much.
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Ehh neat idea but if it's going to be a whole game mode I'd double it to 8 for some insane builds. Five just seems too safe.
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@Yamalive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112515#Comment_4112515
Funny thing to say when this is actually standard game sense for decent killers.
Bro is actually trolling. No killer is going to edgemap to look for survivors unless they had aura reading telling them where to go for the tunnel.
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@MiseryandCompany said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112517#Comment_4112517
Ah yes, make her a worse Artist in every way. Truly a unique and well thought out idea. /sarcasm
Well yeah, the attack is telegraphed because it does damage instantly. If you don't want that then you need to nerf it. Also low key hilarious thinking that she's a worse Artist since her attack can handle different elevations.
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I mean if you want to remove her ability to injure with the beam on first hit then sure, I guess it'd be fine to remove the warning.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112144#Comment_4112144
Elusive makes it 100% easier to hide like that though. Even jumping in lockers has it's risks. If you're injured killers can still hear you, elusive removes any risk at all of being heard and even lets you run without scratch marks and avoid aura read.
My guy, no one's going to be checking lockers on the outskirts of the map unless it's to tunnel someone out.
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@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112241#Comment_4112241
As someone who thinks me contradicting myself (I didn't lol, "definitely strong and a powercrept Huntress" is factually accurate and by no stretch of your feverish and delulu imagination the same as PTW, nice try tho, pookie), I do have to say, hilarious that you avoided the fact that Nurse is free and the very first DLC killer. Yeah, aura perks are great on her. Is she PTW? She's the best killer in the game by a country mile, so tell me, is she PTW? She's effectively skill-less according to you, but tell me, is she PTW?
"Like get out of here man or at the very least be intellectually honest with yourself." Lol, lmao, ecks dee
Please re-read what I wrote. Like I thought making it two separate paragraphs would have made it clear I was not talking about Nurse in the second one but I guess you somehow thought I was still talking about her lol.
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@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112181#Comment_4112181
So what does that make Nurse in your eyes? Free, first DLC killer, and has been the undisputed Queen of DBD for over 10 years now. Ghoul has fallen off in the last 6 months at the highest levels because he's still forced to M1 you to down you and can be punished hard at loops by smart survivors (P100 Ken here, I've seen it plenty of times by comp Survs with bedazzled Steam Profiles) and Jason is definitely strong and a powercrept Huntress/Afton, but the idea that he's PTW is comical. Go play him perkless for 10 games and see how many of those games you 4k5Gens.
Given how many aura perks are in the game nurse is just an easy killer to play with the right loadout that does not require any kind of skill or thought. Sorry to break this to you but it's just a simple fact that nurses only counterplay is breaking los and since there's so many aura perks that's not really an option anymore so that eliminates the only skill nurse players needed and the only counterplay survivors had.
Seconds I do find it hilarious how you contradict yourself by saying Jason is a super strong powercrept killer but also somehow not PTW. Like seriously? Also the added requirement of needing to be perkless? Like get out of here man or at the very least be intellectually honest with yourself.
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TLDR the killer is hard to play despite being extremely powerful in the right hands. It's the opposite of pay to win killers like Jason or Ghoul so you actually need to be good at the game to win. You can't just press button to win with them which is a nice change of pace from how they have been handling killers for the last couple of years.
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@Ergzelgath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112143#Comment_4112143
Yeah but nowaday every map has ######### ton of pallets chain together if map have some real dead zone he would without a doubt s tier but i just played on campell and theres a safe pallets literally 2 meters away from the long wall gym and 3 more pallets nearby thus making his mobility useless i know that the free hit is nice and can caught people off guard very good but man theres pallet everywhere i also once played the suffocatong pit and i decided to only played 1 side which is the main building since the loop is long and i saw that shack side has ton of pallets and debris which hinder my power i have brutal strength and kick every pallets survivors drop and funny enough they still have pallets to play late game the amount of pallets is so absurb theres the pallets that has to kick to avoid the infinite in main some rock pallets and the chokehold middle map and like 3 pallets and 4 windows into more filler pallets
Except most of those pallets are extremely unsafe and with even a minor amount of lag due to how hit validation works the killer can ignore most of them making your argument only really work if the killer has below 20 ping.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112024#Comment_4112024
Bit much. Towards the end of the game people would exploit his to string the game out or play for hatch. I think 30 secs would make more sense, and give the player a good chance to shake the killer if they chase off of hook.
So… people just do this already by hiding in lockers on edge map so you need to come up with a new argument. By making them elusive all you are doing in reality is empowering people who have no reason to do risky plays like go for saves or anything to potentially be useful. Also 30 seconds is nothing in terms of a chase especially since killers can just proxy camp.
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@Ergzelgath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112029#Comment_4112029
Yeah but the knowledge require to counter ghoul is not hard to learn kinda like the double flameturrets for xeno or dont play with shorts loop when wraith have the pallet control and if you can m2 to catch survivors that mean u have to play him pure m1 throughtout the whole chase which is bad anyways jason use spike for chase fog or catch up so he can use both power but my boy ghoul if he use power to chase he cant catch up if he want to use power to catch up then hes m1 while blight can do both but with 5 tokens for tye free health state yeah its free and better than legion for sure since you can catch up better and have somewhat better anti loop (which is bad but at leatst he have something) but legion is very consistant i guess sometimes if they have rock nearby they can hind behind rock then you m2 to the other side and if they dont react fast enough you can free injure but theres a lot of times where you just missed (yeah its possible) the game hate you and put some debris now youre enraged, on cooldown, and not any injury or deep wound and sometimes it just dont work it wont grab hes very buggy and once missed its so punishing
Don't get me wrong, Jason and Blight are both above Ghoul and are stupidly powerful but ghoul just ignores the healthy state for survivors which is something that both Jason and Blight have to at least go through first. Like sure some loops there's counterplay for ghoul but also there's plenty of loops where even if you play it perfectly, get the stun, and do everything right you are still screwed since ghoul instantly gets you before you can reach another loop and you just have to accept the fact you were beaten not because of any skill but just because the killer pressed button to win chase.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112031#Comment_4112031
I agree. This is the same reason why I always say that the Distortion-Nerf did nothing against Rat Behavior and only removed variety from the game.
I also stand by it that Rat Behavior is more rare than people claim it to be. But: I have the feeling that a change like this might encourage more selfish plays regardless. If the game is already lost (e.g. someone tunneled out early), the remaining Survivors at least try. Obviously it is in vain, but this is another issue.
But I feel that if there might be the chance that someone gets unhooked and uses unlimited Elusive to just hide around, people might just not unhook at all. If you dont unhook someone, you have a higher chance of being the last one alive, but if you unhook someone, you might end up on the hook with nobody coming to the rescue. This can already happen, but I feel that if Survivors are scared of Rat Behavior they would rather be the rat themselves.
Yeah rat behavior stems from the simple fact that there's no catch up mechanics for survivors so once a game starts to go badly it's next to impossible to recover so if you only care about surviving the only logical play is to go for hatch and do nothing but rat. This can be easily solved by removing hatch and balancing it that for each dead survivor generators require dramatically less progress to finish to make it so there's still hope if someone gets tunneled out early or if the killer is just stomping while also encouraging spreading hooks and eliminating the reason for ratting which is the hatch.
And yeah like you said if people are going to rat they are going to rat anyway. Changing perks like distortion or anything really cannot change the fact that you can't force people to not rat. Honestly that's one of the main reasons I hated the distortion change since it meant that rat players are even less useful since they are just hiding in lockers more often rather than being on generators or being useful.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112031#Comment_4112031
Why would you need it for two minutes though? And why would you be doing nothing for two minutes? 20s would be soild, especially since it lasts even through a hit. It's meant to be a protection, not for you to be unfindable until you decide to be so.
Nah man, tunneling needs to be nerfed. Ideally it'd be permanent. But to explain by making it last an actually decent time you are protecting the tunneled survivor from a lot of nonsense aura readings killers can use to find you and if the killer is proxy camping giving them an actual possibility of loosing the killer in chase rather than just having to accept the fact you aren't going to be able to play the game. Keep in mind elusive literally cannot be used offensively and is purely defensive, there's no reason to not make it last a long time as it can only be used to protect a survivor from being tunneled out.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112024#Comment_4112024
This will lead to do-nothing rats with permastealth.
Anyone who plays like that are already doing nothing in lockers so that's already a moot point. But sure, how about like two minutes then.
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Prettymuch yeah but at the bottom of it, being able to ignore any mistakes you make by instantly catching up to survivors, fastest killer there is besides Jason, and being able to instantly delete a healthstate with less counterplay than legion is stupidly strong.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
This is a really good point. The elusive should last longer than the endurance. It's also kind of negated if the unhooker follows you to try and heal since they end up leading the killer after you.
Hot take but elusive should just last until you preform a conspicuous action.
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@coldflame said:
this is not a sided issue, survivors also do this
Literally impossible since hits are validated by the killer.