esarraf
esarraf
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Ehh I get where you are coming from. But at the same time I don't want to deal with two blights.
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Plague, legion, oni, ghoul, lich, Dredge, ring girl, and pig would be the ones I see being horrible for the game mode.
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I hope they move it back to 0.3 seconds because they seriously made them super easy to play with these changes.
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They just need to make the classes better I think would be a good start. Like Torchbearer needs to have background player since… well flashlight saves are the only reason why someone would pick it. Guide just needs a total rework as they removed the main reason why anyone would pick it. Blastmine is not a strong effect. Medic is also pretty simple, just give them autodidact to make it more exciting since it's kinda a boring class. Scout could use some form of aura protection, given they are the stealth class. Maybe after they get hooked they gain aura immunity for three minutes and it refreshes on every cage state.
Escapist is fine though. They cooked with that.
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Bro does not know how to play trapper. It's really easy to win as him if you know what you are doing.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115821#Comment_4115821
are they only adding killers they can build a bot for a dc?
Considering all the killers they have added are pretty simple mechanically speaking I'm assuming that's why.
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@Mima said:
alot of them aren't exactly problematic to have on 2v8, just curious why they haven't been added
Bots. Each killer with extremely unique powers are going to require a lot of work to make a semi functional bot. I know so many people make the meme of how new killers are convoluted compared to og killers but it's low key true. Compare how simple alien plays compared to someone like skull merchant. Alien just needs to have the logic of can I hit with tail? If yes then hit. Skull merchant relies on stealth, knowing good drone placement, and a bunch of other stuff that'd be a pain to code to make sure the bot can do it.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115804#Comment_4115804
Exactly right. He's insanely easy to play for how STRONG he is, think of other S tier's like nurse and blight and billy. These killers are THOUSANDS of times harder to play for their respective power level as it should be. This killer is probably better than nurse as it stands if he's allowed access to aura perks. At least nurse has exploitable weaknesses on certain maps that this killer just does not give a fk about.
Yeah like, nurse is at the very least a slow killer. You can outrun her or pre run to get distance. Judgment is just, aura reading go brrr and shoots you and with an even stronger curve so you can't even do anything. Like it's so dumb.
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It is hilarious how they release an incredibly broken killer that is slightly hard to play then just go and make them easy to play. Like honestly maybe a contender for nurse rn with how strong they are.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115201#Comment_4115201
this is what is called an extention fallacy. ill need you to remain within the bounds of logic for me to be able to respond.
That's not what that means.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114933#Comment_4114933
if it works 80% of your games then it has an awfully high chance of working not a high chance of not working.
Okay then it seems I'll need to be a bit hyperbolic to make you understand. Quick question would you play Russian Roulette knowing only one in five chambers was loaded? It's a high chance of not firing after all.
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Oh 100% this would be a lot healthier for the game. Hooking someone to exile them would mean that there is better anti tunnel tools survivors have as right now Judgement is one of the strongest killers in the game for tunneling someone out as they ignore sabo, flashlight saves, and pallet stuns on top of disabling all anti-tunnel perks.
I know a lot of biased killer mains will say being able to instantly kill and tunnel out someone with no possible counterplay is fair and balanced. So don't feel too bad about the downvotes.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114935#Comment_4114935
Nah after the curve buff Zealous is now very worth it as you can use your power in loops much easier.
It's worth it already because it means not having to go all the way to a hook, letting you keep pressure up instead of having a break in the tempo.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114934#Comment_4114934
you realize that thats the dbd notoriously screwed up stat tracker right?
So you have even less hours? If it's screwed up and unreliable why bring it up as evidence in the first place?
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114904#Comment_4114904
Personally, I think its more an unwillingness to see the positive applications of things but very well. I feel the need to point out something though:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WYGJW4LA3KZ2/1000001937.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JGSAZG3BBC0F/1000001938.jpg
I may not be the best, but I've been here a very long time and know what I'm doing. Safe to say I'm out of starter mmr, even with the reset.
My guy, you don't even have over a thousand hours in survivor. I feel heavily vindicated in what I said. Thank you for your post I don't think I could have come up with a better argument for why no one is realistically getting value out of salvation's cry.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114916#Comment_4114916
the midset that if you shouldnt use a perk if you dont get 100% value in it every single match is why people use 5 perks every game and find it boring.
l;iterally every single build can be countered in some way or another or at least mitigated, its just some perks are not used often. you can make anti exhaustion builds and greatly weaken those builds but people dont bring them, so you think it works 100% of the time.
in a game about tactic/perk vs other counters and such its poor game design to build perks that have nothing to potentially encounter it. gen rushing perks have counters called gen regression that mitigates what those do.
]your playstyle wasnt nerfed, it stille xists, but killers all have different ways of plays and things they are good or poor against.
yea you dont get to prevent hooking if your against the judgment, you have to do so something else. thats prioper game design instead of 1 power set that can be agaisnt it. thats why there are anti heal killers, anti loop kills, zoning killers, mobility killers, ect because there are different playstyles and they excel at some things and worse at others.
there are also perks that make saboing harder btw, counters to your build already exists but people dont tend to run them. so your issue is more that you actually encountered a killer that makes you play differently. thats not a bad thing. adapt.
My guy, I get that. But there's a cutoff point. If a perk has insane value in one out of every hundred games it does not matter how good it is, no one's running it. Likewise, because sabo as a build kinda sucks and requires 3~4 perks to pull off I don't want to dedicate my whole build to it if there's a high chance of it just not mattering at all next match when it was never that good to start with.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114901#Comment_4114901
so a build that works 80% of the time isnt worth bringing? can you not see how i struggle to take this seriously? they are absolutely not being played ANYWHERE near 20% of games on NA servers anyways.
genrushing isnt a thing i recognise. thats the survivors job is to do gens and excluding a few killers that create sub objectives, there is nothing else for them to do.
I mean there is still build diversity when you dont think a build that doesnt have 100% viability every match means its worthless and not to be brought.
My man, no a build is not worth bringing if you can't reasonably rely on it. Sabo was already barely worth bringing because of how strong slugging already is. Meanwhile Gen builds works in 100% of games. I understand your mindset if you are a casual player in low mmr but like, this is just basic common sense for anyone whose skilled at the game. Nerfing alternatively playstyles will directly lead to less people playing them. That's why you don't see killers or survivors running stuff like haste builds after diminishing returns got implemented. Making niche builds worse means less people playing them, it's just common sense.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114711#Comment_4114711
Okay I'll try to explain again.
Mate. Lets assume im already on a gen like a sensible survivor and i hear the heartbeat coming. Salvation shows where they are so tells me "Hey don't go that way, thats where they're probably coming from". Thats what im getting at. Im NOT running around aimlessly as soon as i hear the beat, but knowing where they are with the beat can help me decide where NOT to go when needed. Additionally since I am show where the chase started and ended i know atleast 2 areas heavily likely to have less. Short procs don't really mean as much as you think. Im always looking around when working on gens, cause lets face it thats dull to simply stare at the gen waiting for skill checks.
Even a bot does not have this issue.
You'd be surprised what bots do. But anyway its because A: people lead the killer to me so damn often (solo for the win), B: this whole conversation is me pointing out that salvation isn't complete "hot garbage" like you claim, C: Indoor maps and stealth killers exist, D: People play differently so everyone doesn't always do the same thing (Ex: the killer always going to gen A from path 4). So yes, I can see value in salvations cry even if its a meh perk. Tell me, as a injured survivor on deathhook would you go to that area with a gen being worked on (lets say 50ish progress for arguments sake) knowing theres pallets and such there? I sure would. Now if they have bond then yes, they can move themselves, but If you have bond then they have to either have to hope and pray, hide nearby (itself its own gamble on if the killer stops and searches or not) or skedaddle and hope they don't go the wrong way. Salvation can remove the "wrong way" part.
Then who cares?
You obviously didnt read the whole "The runner was leading them " bit. Though i see where phone auto correct screwed up so fairs fair:
This:
Just for fun, what if the killer comes from the corner of the map with completed gens because the runner was making sure they're not leading them to finished gens?
is supposed to be this:
Just for fun, what if the killer comes from the corner of the map with completed gens because the runner was making sure they're not leading them to finishing gens?
I appreciate that you conceded on this at the very least.
Im perfectly capable of be reasonable (bar 1 thing) even when i don't think if every scenario. Idk about your games but since the reset im getting alot more veriety of killers. Ghouls and blights, to bubbas and pigs. Even a hag and Krause (sadly not build variety though). And again, its not a great perk, but its still a potentially useful one to the team, and since im not a rat and get value if someone runs it, i think that last sentence is false.
Okay then how about this.
Thats a better comparison than bond. They both however have advantages over one another. We see you requires either the killer to be using aura (which admittedly isn't anywhere near a problem atm) or for you to use something to reveal yourself to the killer costing half your build with both. Salvation requires a "chase" to start and thats it. We see you is unarguably more useful but you have to make it work or rely on the killers build, salvation just does its thing as long as you can last 5 seconds.
Again, sometimes you gotta go where you need to to survive and eating a down isn't a good idea. Lets put a scenario like the above. A gen has alot of progress so you obviously wana avoid it, but your also injured and death hook and that gen is where resources are. Lets say you avoid it, you go down, get hooked and hear a scream as you die. Turns out the killer hasn't hooked you with pain res yet. Now that gen is regressed enough that when the killer comes its still not done and KICK it down again with pop (as i said, i got variety of killers, not builds sadly). Now its regressed and your dead, a worthless down. Sometimes your thoughts on that would be sound, other times it will backfire.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the point of contention just comes from different mmr levels. Since you are facing actual variety of killers instead of just the typical ones of ghouls and blights it's clear to me that to you, you are right. At minimal mmr where nobody knows what they are doing and you face a wider range of killers the perk is probably more usable. It's just at anything above starter mmr it's value becomes practically nonexistent.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114713#Comment_4114713
so if the every once in a while game you have you cant sabo on means you cant sabo the other 95% of games? am i understanding you right?
not all playstyles will be viable every match. thats not anywhere near new to the judgement.
No? This is the first killer besides sorta pyramid head who totally ignores sabo and flashlight saves. And I feel like I should point out that because Judgment is easily an S tier/top of A tier killer and they are new it's gonna be like 20% for the next couple of months. Which yeah I'm not going to bring a build if it just does nothing in a fifth of my games. Especially since, it's not even that strong of a build.
Look at the end of the day it's fine, it's just a game but you need to understand that Judgment's existence in their current state will directly lead to more genrushing and less build diversity. It's not healthy for the game and should be looked at. -
Apocalyptic Ingenuity needs to rebuild real pallets if it wants to not be a trash tier perk and considering the massive time investment needed I think it'd be fine.
Moment of glory though I think is in an okay spot with the recent buff.
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I hate the tunneling part too especially since I love to run sabo to prevent tunneling but I just can't play that way anymore since Judgment just totally ignores my build. It's so much fun being forced to genrush or risk bringing a build that does absolutely nothing. Really great move on the developers side removing playstyles from survivors… so much fun just having to genrush.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114622#Comment_4114622
They don't need to see you coming since that gives no value. The only thing that matters is making sure you aren't leading the killer to gens simple as that.
I mean, I like to know which way NOT to go to run into the killer. I like knowing where you came from to know whats probably been used. There are defiantly more things that mater than that.
First off, bond lets you lead the killer away from someone who is on death hook
But it does not let the other guy run the sure fire direction away, you have to steer yourself and probably eat that hook quicker than if you could pass by. I have been on death hook before and tried to go away as someone leads them to me, whether intentional or not, only to pick the wrong direction to go. This helps others with the finer details. If you run shoulder you have to take that hook state instead of possibly preemptively preventing one. Im not going to know where everyones been if im solo just because someones on death hook, tunnel or no. I can roughly guess but unless i go through myself I only know where chases end, and not even what happened durring said chases. Some greed pallets, some drop at a hat.
Just for fun, what if the killer comes from the corner of the map with completed gens because the runner was making sure they're not leading them to finished gens? Will they go to mine dead strait? Will they go to another then mine from there? This is no bearing on the perk, but it does show that knowing where the killer comes from isn't cut and dry.
Next there's the issue of you saying it doesn't matter who the killer is
In the context for the perk it indeed doesn't really mater. The benefit is showing you and the killer's aura to others when a chase starts. If the killer is undetectable the others still see you. As the killer is now spoiled when met with a survivor (dont exactly know what triggers the info in the pause menu) the survivors can know who it is even if not seen. As it also procs each "chase" which can be broken up repeatedly against most it gives irregular, but not that hard to follow, pings. I will concede it IS practically useless on extreme mobility/lethality and snipers as your probably going down fast or theres no "chase" to proc.
Compare this to the previously mentioned bond.
I have. To put blunt and simple Bond is a perk specifically for you while salvation is for everyone else. Bond will tell you where you shouldn't go, but if you need to the others are practically forced in the corssfire. Salvation doesn't tell you where not to go but allows the others to potentially avoid said crossfire. Bond is a limited range (about average tr size if im right) but always on, salvation needs a proc but is relatively simple (not easy, but "chases" often break and go, break and go) to get a few procs and is unlimited. The chase may move but that initial ping still helps regardless of the previous sentence. And if people cant work on a gen and look around no wonder people think judgement is broken.
I mean, I like to know which way NOT to go to run into the killer. I like knowing where you came from to know whats probably been used. There are defiantly more things that mater than that.
Okay I'll try to explain again. You should not be worried about which way to go since you should be on gens not running around in a circle like a chicken with it's head cut off. You are actively throwing if you are playing in a way that salvation's cry is giving you value. Also again, salvation's cry is very short and does not give you useful information. You don't know how many pallets have been used and in what area since chase moves over time and it does not show you what pallets are gone.
But it does not let the other guy run the sure fire direction away, you have to steer yourself and probably eat that hook quicker than if you could pass by.
Even a bot does not have this issue. Seriously I cannot understand how you run into the issue of heading into the killer this often. Like the scenario you are proposing requires that a survivor be both blind and deaf, on death hook, not on a generator, right next to the killer, and that the killer would switch to you. The scenario you proposed is so convoluted that I think I can safely say that your teammate was leading the killer to you because anyone who plays like that is sandbagging the whole team. Also again it does not help with the finer details since in case you forgot it only last a few seconds.
Just for fun, what if the killer comes from the corner of the map with completed gens because the runner was making sure they're not leading them to finished gens?
Then who cares? Why are you also hiding in a corner of the map with completed gens like some kind of rat? Ever scenario you are proposing so far requires that any survivor who gets value out of this is actively trying to kill their team.
I will concede it IS practically useless on extreme mobility/lethality and snipers as your probably going down fast or theres no "chase" to proc.
I appreciate that you conceded on this at the very least. And for the sake of argument you are right that even with an undetectable killer they would still be able to see the survivor in chase. However like 80% of matches now are hyper mobility/judgment. A perk that does nothing in the vast majority of games needs should at least have a strong effect but this does not. It's a highly situational perk that only really gives value to rats actively trying to kill you.
I have. To put blunt and simple Bond is a perk specifically for you while salvation is for everyone else.
Okay then how about this. Why not just run We see you? It's far less situational than Salvation's cry, helps the whole team, and if players are good will realize that this means the killer has an aura build and can play around that.
Also again, everyone else does not need to know where the killer is (for five seconds) if you just don't lead the killer to vulnerable survivors in the first place. Even if this means you need to eat a down.
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@MrBuffalo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114642#Comment_4114642
No no I agree with you. sorry if I worded it weirdly.
Oh my bad, I thought you were the other dude.
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@MrBuffalo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114580#Comment_4114580
Bro these are the same people who cant get info from the little symbol by the character portraits.
Players these days have no idea whats going on have the time and just auto pilot.
Are you making my point for me right now? Because I totally forgot the basic fact that yeah new players who run into the issue of having no game sense and could possibly get the most value out of it are also the least likely people to have access to this perk or be in lobbies with people who have the new survivor.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114580#Comment_4114580
So quick gambit lets others see you coming? Cause that seems like a new one to me. Also sure bond doesn't tell the others where you and the killer are. Both those tell you and you alone no? And when sometimes you might need to go towards others, like say death hook, others can at least either get outta the way or try and help without requiring either or ducking at the first heartbeat. It doesn't mater who the killer is, what matters is the where. Is it a great perk? No, is there a point to run it? Occasionally. But keep thinking everythings "hot garbage", i can at least see usefulness.
They don't need to see you coming since that gives no value. The only thing that matters is making sure you aren't leading the killer to gens simple as that.
But you at the very least came up with theoretical reasons why someone would run it. None of them hold up to any level of scrutiny but it'll be fun to discuss them.
First off, bond lets you lead the killer away from someone who is on death hook, second instead of salvation's cry you can run shoulder the burden to prevent someone from being on death hook. Let's not forget the massive opportunity cost of running salvation's cry over other perks. Third, by the time someone is on death hook unless they are being tunneled out of the game at five gens you should already know where safe areas are. Killer's aren't going to the corner of the map with finished gens lol so you can pretty reasonably tell where the killer is and will be coming from.
Next there's the issue of you saying it doesn't matter who the killer is, because that's just wrong on so many levels. A bunch of killers have undetectable as part of their power so this perk just does not work on like a third of the killer roster or is unreliable at best. Let's not even get into the issue of undetectable perks because there's the even bigger issue of killers like ghoul, blight, and Jason who can go from one end of the map to another in a matter of seconds making any information the perk gave moot. Let's not forget it's minuscule reveal duration after all.
It's a perk that does nothing in let's be generous and say only 90% of games because the killer is straight up immune to it or can render it irrelevant due to high movement speed. It's value only comes from slow basic killers that have no undetectable, can't move fast, and can't teleport. In other words it's usable against like… Trapper, Bubba, and Plague.
Compare this to the previously mentioned bond. A perk that is always active. A perk that makes it so you won't lead the killer to generators being worked on or survivors on death hook, and gives you information that can be acted on in or out of chase. While Salvation's cry is unreliable as it requires a significant number of killers and perks to not be in play, it requires you to be the one in chase, it's information gets worse the longer chase goes on as you move through the maps leading to potential situations where because you gave people info earlier they may not realize where the chase has moved and erroneously think an area is safe, it turns off after only a few seconds so most people can't even get value out of it, and most of the time it will not give any value whatsoever to anyone as people should be focusing on getting gens done not worrying about what side of the map killer is on.
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Boons are still only usable in swf sadly. Otherwise it's just not worth running. They haven't really been usable for a long time and the new boon is not gonna change that fact. Seriously who thought steadfast was a good idea? A boon typically only touches one generator, it just makes no sense with how the perk is designed. And that's not even going into how horrible illumination has been since release.
I think they need to buff a lot of the boons. Exponential and shadow step are actually fine but the others are just so underwhelming for what boons ask in terms of time investment.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114534#Comment_4114534
Actually it gives solos periodic advanced warning about where the killer is and what's probably getting used. Tells me that atleast when ppl run it
Wow, stuff that's check notes better done by running quick gambit and just not leading the killer to the survivors. Or bond, a perk that's on a starting character. Survivors know who the killer is after first chase so you will have to explain to me how survivors who are not in chase get value from knowing where the killer is. Because they should be on generators not just messing around trying to go for sabo or flashlight saves, both of which got heavily crippled by the new killer totally negating them.
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Honestly speaking Salvation's cry is hot garbage so I don't even think flipping it would change anything. There's no real point in running it currently.
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@sadakomura65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113883#Comment_4113883
Im talking about her version after the first rework. That version did NOT hold games hostage for an hour yet got nuked for no reason.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113903#Comment_4113903
Okay, again. While that version could not hold the game hostage for an hour. They could hold it for an incredibly long time which was the issue.
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@MrBuffalo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113829#Comment_4113829
god that sounds awful
Yet also not too far from the truth. Compared to modern killer which is just like. Hook a survivor then look vaguely towards a generator to blow it up.
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@Mentally_Mechanical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113883#Comment_4113883
That hour long game was one instance, not something she could do every game. Also, did you forget that that was her original version, not the first rework that she received? The first rework had none of these issues, yet that wasn't enough to appease the loud voices.
Okay, again it's the whole even if she could no longer hold a game hostage she could still stall it for a stupidly long time.
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@sadakomura65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/471885/vigil-absolutely-massacred
Skull Merchant also got massacred and still is to this day yet no one cares
Skull Merchant got killed because she was literally holding games hostage for over an hour and even with the gen regression limit could easily make a game last more than a half hour. If they can make her power stronger without making it so it's the most tedious thing to play against by all means buff her.
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@TheWeakestKnightMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113618#Comment_4113618
Knight already had so much counter play. Why does he need more?
Because the counterplay was do nothing for a long time.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113589#Comment_4113589
If you hook person a and then person b it’s no tunneling. Tunneling means hooking only the same survivor multiple times in a row wich isn’t the case there and it has nothing to do with the post
Don't think you understand basics of how the game works but you do you.
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@HexFelix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113387#Comment_4113387
still impossible to tunnel with bbq since you hook person a then hook person b to find person a again and it isn’t tunneling because you hooked someone else. But thats not the topic of this post.
Nah, just proxy camp, hook whever came to trade and then go after the person who was just unhooked. It's extremely easy to tunnel someone even if you hook someone in between.
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Yeah, I get what you mean. I wish scavenger was usable but it's just not since getting five great skill checks typically takes so long the game is over by that point. However I don't think their rarity has changed.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113398#Comment_4113398
Why are you commenting like that attitude?
It is okay to agree to disagree. You have no idea how experienced I am with her. But if you mean in general. Yeah ofc you gotta train using her power, adjust the sensetivity in the power charging and find the spot you are good with her Divine of light.
I agree she is very good where she is now! There could just be small changes. Have you ever noticed after charging the power, before the M1 is ready to use, her Animation is done the M1 is ready? This is why players drop pallets in a close chase. Because it looks like the judgement is ready to M1 you.
The M1 cooldown after charging power could be decreased 1.5 or 2 seconds.
All the other add-on ideas is just ideas to make her stronger and even more interesting. Most killers have power cooldown recovery faster for their add-on. She dosen't
Having one of the add-on basekit where the pillar get aimed back to you. And injuring Heresy survivors, should be a basekit. Also heard other players say that.
But yeah we'll see how she is for people in the future. And I know BHVR will changd her up in the upcoming patch like the rest of the killers have been. I am just suggesting small stuff if they even like my ideas after playing hours with her. And hoping they don't nerf her in any way.
There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Okay, first off the Devs have gone on record saying that the Judgment is going to require more skill to be good at. And given that you are asking for major buffs on a killer that has been out for less than a month leads me to believe that you don't really want to get good at them or understand how to play them and just want another easy to play killer. It's why it was just an honest recommendation not 'attitude' to play one of the other forty something killers if you'd like to play something easy.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113322#Comment_4113322
Did you read it all before commenting?
I am just saying a few things could change to make this killer more playable/picked.
The cooldown to M1 after charging or using power could be shorter.
The Zealous mode could be more valued.
Using the Divine of light could be changed up a bit. So not everyone do the same playstyle.
Yes she has her difficulties that is great! We have to learn how to adapt to each killer to learn their potential. I am still learning her, and using different way to charge the power to land hits in chases.
I am not saying I want her to become much more easier. But some stuff could be basekit for a more creative complex playstyle.
Dude, they are already playable they are just harder to play. Once again they are a perfectly good killer who is strong you just need to be good at the game. They aren't Jason or Ghoul you need to actually try to play the game if you want to win.
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Bro if you want to play an easy killer just go play ghoul, let people that actually want a minor level of difficulty have a good killer.
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@cammoking123 said:
I read diminishing returns doesn't work on four slowdowns. Like what? Isn't that what diminishing returns is for?
It'd be better if gen slowdown perks reduced the gen regression limit given how they all tend to work at different times. Sure you can still run four slowdown perks but you can only damage a gen twice.
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@abusterz said:
Just to clarify
I just want to clear up one thing about my original post.
It's not trying to make these situations worse for Killer players, and I'm definitely not saying Survivors should just get extra advantages whenever they're losing.
What I'm really trying to do is improve the late-game experience for both sides.
If a Killer creates a strong 3-gen, wins their chases, manages their resources well, and eventually wins the match, that's completely fair. I have no problem with that.
What I'm questioning is whether it's really a good experience for the Killer either to spend another 20–30 minutes patrolling the same three generators over and over, or standing over a downed Survivor while waiting for the last Survivor to show up.The Killer might be winning during that time, but winning doesn't necessarily mean the gameplay is fun or engaging.
So I'm not really suggesting we should buff Survivors or nerf Killers.
I'm suggesting that there could be some kind of late-game system that kicks in when a match gets stuck in an extreme stalemate, and helps both sides get back to actually playing the game.
Game should be something we enjoy playing, not something we feel like we're being forced to endure.
Just to clarify, killers don't need to make a 3 gen. Like, you can just camp three gens at the start of a match.
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@T1MEXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113055#Comment_4113055
I'm not so sure, we have never been able to run 5 perks so the combinations will be even bigger. 8 perks would be unplayable for both sides. Killers would run 8 gen perks and make it impossible to win. Survivors would run 8 meta perks and make it impossible to win. I know what you mean but I believe this will be great for both sides, now you can run 4 perks + Windows of Oppotunity.
So what? Did you think my little oni was balanced as well? Who cares if it's a mess what's important is it's fun.
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@T1MEXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112601#Comment_4112601
Wow I thought you meant survivors not perks. Playing it safe is a good start though, that might be a bit much 😂
Uhh… sorry but no. If it's a wacky crazy event that's super chaotic you'll get a lot of people super interested in it and seeing it come back. If it's just like… oooh one extra perk you'll get a few people to play it and no one will care to see it back since it's almost essentially the same as the regular game mode.
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@hermitkermit said:
Hmm.. I think two things can be true at once here. On one hand , having a killer like the Judgment is refreshing compared to some of the more recent styles we’ve gotten. Certainly new and brings a different way to engage entirely for both as and against, which is something I think the game needed. A very cool killer.
On the other hand, I can agree that simply by how she works it does further limit perk choices, and does so in a very stale meta that has gotten quite a few major perks nerfed recently which tightens the perk choices even more.
It’s true that Judgment is not the first to do this, as there are plenty of instances where you may bring a perk that is not useful because of the killer or even the map. It’s part of the RNG. But I do also agree that I don’t think it’d be a particularly healthy step forward in the game if this happened more frequently. There’s certainly a difference between a perk that won’t get you a lot of value because of RNG and a perk that can’t even be activated because of RNG, and because survivors can’t see which killer they are facing it does significantly impact them in a different way.
I can understand how something like SB was overtuned and deemed unhealthy for the game because it tended to shut down interactions with many m1 killers. But in the same way, the Judgment does the same thing with many survivor perks, but I don’t the answer is nerfing them, I think their strength should be strong because of the skill it takes to use it.
Perhaps this is more of a Nurse situation where it probably wouldn’t be healthy to use either Nurse or Judgment as a benchmark of balance and strive to create more killers like them because they change the game and shutdown interactions in such a distinctive way, but the skill expression required to do well with them kind of gives them a pass.
A bit rambly here but I just don’t think there’s an easy answer. I think the Judgment is really cool, I love the change of pace they bring to the game, and I don’t think they need to be nerfed. Frankly a small buff may be in order for help with close range. But I can’t just ignore that they do shut down many perks, and I’ve never really been a fan of that because survivor perks are the survivors “power” and in the same way it isn’t enjoyable for a m1 killer power to struggle because of certain perks, it isn’t enjoyable for a quarter or so of your “power” to be dead on arrival through no fault of your own.
The easy answer is to just let survivors see who the killer is in the lobby. Gonna get flak for this but it's stupid that killers main power just fully removes multiple builds that were never that strong to begin with. All this does is force a gen rush meta even more which is boring and the Judgement as a killer is actually super fun to go against for the most part. Will this change the meta? Yes. Will this make killers pick something other than nurse and blight? Also yes because yeah I know people will dodge lobbies. Will this almost instantly solve the issue of people dcing and giving up instantly? Also yes since people will know what they are getting into before they ready up. But it does mean we'll probably have to buff several killers and rework old outdated perks which people will complain about.
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All they needed to do was change it so it recharges while working on generators. People who complained about people only ratting with it are happy since they are now progressing the game and people who like to be stealthy are happy since they no longer need to be in chase. And like you said new players are able to stay alive a bit better.
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Let's be honest. Even if the numbers were permanent would anyone actually run it over quick gambit? Seriously there's no reason to run salvation's cry over it.
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@Elan said:
You can play around auras, rather go against aura than full slowdown.
Unless it's nurse.
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Like 90% of people just went to lithe which is kinda funny. Who could have guessed that completely killing the perk would result in this?
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It's
@jesterkind said:
Oh hey, this thread's back lol
I'll update my thoughts about Steadfast, then. I think the devs made the right call in moving away from specifically permanent progress and towards a different method of protecting gen progress, I think that's the smartest way to still fulfill the broad brief without clinging to the one specific word that made this perk really difficult to balance.
And, in fact, this new version of the perk seems pretty decent. 10% repair speed is nothing to sneeze at for yourself, plus it buffs your teammates, plus it slows regression. Not bad for a boon, and it pairs nicely with other boons for different reasons, so plenty to like. Not amazing, but far from terrible.
That said, I had the same opinion during the PTB that I have now, which is that I wish it leaned further into reducing killer slowdown. Instead of slowing the rate of regression, I'd love to see this perk halve generator explosion percentages and generator blocking durations for gens in its radius, as a more direct counter to the current meta.
Killers got a similar tool in Under Your Thumb that could, hopefully, put some pressure on perk choices to diversify the meta. Steadfast doing the same for slowdown would be a really nice pair to that, without requiring perk nerfs or sweeping mechanical changes to broaden perk variety in the meta.I think you suggested a great idea, regression slowdown is pretty meaningless. If it protected generators from blocking and explosions it'd be slightly more viable but it'd still run into the issue that 9/10 times if you just spent the time blessing on the generator you could just have finished it. Because simply put the range on boons is far too small so the majority of the time you'll only be affecting one generator which kinda makes it a bit awful. I think if it increased the range slightly it could be usable but it's just mechanically a bad perk due to how map generation works to the point that I think the only way this boon could be viable is if it made it so any generators in it's range (aka 1) cannot be regressed under any circumstance until the boon is snuffed.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112656#Comment_4112656
I agree with a lot of these, however a lot of these change how the perk works and as my post says I restricted myself to only changing numbers and perhaps removing functions, not adding or changing them. If the change to the perk includes some kind of functionality change or addition, then it's something new that needs to be coded and it's no longer a quick and easy change. As I said in the post, these are not ideal changes for these perks, a lot of them are just temporary before they can properly be given the time needed to put them in their ideal state.
As for the other suggestions:
I did not propose removing the injured requirement of Deadline (if that is even an easy change) because that means it's permanently active, which could be concerning with Hyperfocus + Stake Out builds. As Deadline is now, it is mainly used in conjunction with Autodidact so I elected to just buff the numbers. Honestly don't know what the ideal state of this perk is even supposed to be, maybe removing the injured requirement would be fine if they fixed the Hyperfocus issue.
There are actually a fair amount of high skill players that swear Rapid Response is a decent perk, as it gives you aura on the killer on demand if you run it with something like Lithe or Dramaturgy along with Eyes of Belmont. However, I think even taking Eyes of Belmont into account, this perk definitely could be 6s or so which is a nice middle ground.
For Specialist, I agree that it could be a little bit higher, although I would be scared about putting it as high as 8% even if it's only powerful in a goofy chest build, especially when there is the possibility of making a generator permanently 48% done with one skill check. I think I'll put it up to 7% which already almost doubles the value, while reducing the max Tokens to 3 so that only 21% can be deposited at a time, which is similar to the current 24%.
For deadline, I'm gonna be honest with you, it does not matter. Thanks to diminishing returns the increased skill check bonus is not going to be that much. It's just make other perks like autodidact or scavanger more viable since honestly I can't imagine most people will even be able to hit deadline hyperfocus skillchecks.
Rapid Response is bad, I'm sorry but if you want info on the killer scene partner or alert outclasses it so much. Like listen to what your saying. For it to be viable you need to run eyes of belmont, when you can just… run two different perks to get a good effect instead of two perks to get one good effect.
And Specialist would be fine. Spending like two minutes to open every chest around the map to get a lot of progress on one generator is fine. There should be alternate playstyles that are actually viable. Like, think about if there was a killer perk that reduced the amount of progress needed on a gen by half but it took a survivor out of the game for the first two minutes of the match. I promise you that would be meta instantly.