esarraf
esarraf
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Sorry but that'd increase the rating to M. It'd be too indecent.
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Hit validation being killer sided, like gosh dang it we have dedicated servers now? Why are things worse than when it was peer to peer?
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@Skillfulstone said:
The change to WoO is just a bad idea overall. It also feels anti-newcomer.
The perk isn't the most used Survivor perk because it's overpowered, it's the most used Survivor perk because it makes the game slightly less miserable and utterly random for newcomers/casuals who don't know the pallet spawns by heart. It makes the game feel like a game and not a gamble for beginners/casuals.
Not everyone has the time or the patience to learn and remember the spawns on every maps, not with how many maps and variants there are, a number that will only grow over time.
Only showing the windows is basically useless outside of indoor maps since there's also very little randomness to most window spawns, they are usually static (shack, main buildings & larger tiles) which makes the perk a waste.
Furthermore, WoO made it so that people could learn the maps so that eventually they could play without it. It was beginner-friendly and, more importantly, it took a single perk slot, so that help still took 25% of your build. If the changes go through, Five Move Ahead will be needed alongside WoO to have the same effect… twice the grind and half the build for beginners to get a basic layout of their surroundings.
Furthermore, WoO gave SoloQ a weaker version of something that SWF have normally: The ability to know when key areas are no longer safe. A SWF can tell each other when key pallets are broken without having to go there while in chase (and likely giving a free hit/down since there's no more pallet). It helped close an information gap to a small degree (as a SWF have no distance limit to that knowledge while WoO is not map-wide) and now BHVR wants to get rid of it. Isn't closing the gap between SWF and SoloQ something that people want? A lot of QOL changes were made in the name of closing that gap, why go two steps back now?
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the change, there's literally no positive outcome from making WoO irrelevant. All it will achieve is making the game (as Survivor) much harder to learn and play for beginners & casuals, and the queue times speak for themselves on what people like to play more already.
I guess they want to make maps actually usable? It's good because this means survivors can dodge new players easier by seeing that they are bringing a map. Before new players could bring windows but with this change they have managed to increase lobby dodging several folds or make it that any new player will die instantly. Such a great change that anyone with even the smallest amount of thought could see coming.
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To be honest I don't really remember. So many good people just got banned for the tiniest things over the years that were pillars of the community just to be silenced by the mods. It sucks that they power trip so hard but they are better than discord mods I guess.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120010#Comment_4120010
That is not true. Paired with Champion is really decent to hinder killers by forcing them to look down. Also pretty add on dependant. I think 45s isn't enough as if you blind killer and don't go down in those 30-45s it won't do anything. Blindness disable ability to see gens which killer will memorize, hooks that killer can still visually see. So it will be mostly useless unless killer drops a chase.
Yeah this was semi doable before diminishing returns because of fixated but it's not exactly hard for the killer to counter. It's just not usable against a lot of the killers people go against since they crippled flashlights years ago.
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Ehh the issue is that the killers you need to blind the most, Judgement, the First, and of course Nurse all ignore pallets and windows so you can't really blind them with the flashlight. So it's a perk that's mostly unusable against some of the strongest killers in the game.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119409#Comment_4119409
But Scavenger is whole different story because it punishes you for hitting greats. You need 5 to replenish toolbox which is already a lot and for that you get 30s of almost double amount of wretched fate debuff. So for skilled performance you get punished.
Not trying to be rude but you really don't understand how toolboxes and gen builds work. The slower repair speed is a really good thing for survivors because that means you go through it slower which in turn means more skill checks for stuff like hyperfocus and bardic. If you understand how the game works it's actually a really good thing for repair speed. It's still not good because it requires five great skill checks which are rng based and you can simply never get enough until it's really late in the game or the games just over.
Regardless, needing a lot of good luck as well as putting yourself in an extremely vulnerable position for a mid payoff is not a great choice for a perk. Like sitting on the generator when you can easily get one tapped is not a great decision from a survivors perspective outside of dire situations as it can easily cost you the game from being easily downed.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119419#Comment_4119419
It's okay, finishing a generator solo in 45 seconds is totally normal.
Someone dedicating their whole build to generators is good at generators. Next you'll tell me that a killer who dedicates their whole build to gen slowdown is good at slowing down generators.
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My guy, I really like your post and I agree with your idea of "A Killer requiring mechanical skill does not automatically justify unlimited reward once that skill has been mastered."
However I recommend you work on brevity, few people on this forum has the attention span to read through all this. I think you are right that high mobility killers are problematic for a variety of reasons and think they should be reexamined. However this just is not going to happen even if you are right. The devs clearly don't care about balancing as shown by the latest PTB. Next time you make a post about something I'd just keep it brief because it's not worth the energy to scream into the void.
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Dude forgot that it requires five skill checks to appear. The perks bad enough, if you lost to someone running this it's a major skill issue on your end, not the perk.
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@Elan said:
I agree that killer side got new refreshing meta contenders whil survivors got one single perk that might see some use and that's Road Life and it's still not known whether it won't be nerfed to live.
I don't even think Road Life will be that good tbh. Four skill checks is a lot, there's a reason no one really uses Scavanger.
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Survivors got nothing of note and some nerfs. It was a disgrace and just looks like the devs are trying to make the survivor experience even worse as many of the perks they destroyed now can't be used in soloq or were only good in solo q.
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@Countrydoge said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/07LRGMJ0NHCN/image.png
Looks like I can't edit my discussion, so I'll be updating the perk in the comments.
Update 1: Removed the downside where you lose 1 token after you get hooked.Looks good, I think the 16 seconds of haste may also be a bit too strong but eh playing with a dead perk that requires a bunch of effort to get value from should be worth it. Either way I think this is a great perk now.
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Solid work, end game perks should be extremely impactful and this is looking like it could be without being overpowered since it requires you to do a lot of gen progress. However it's incentives are awful as it makes it so whoever runs this perk will avoid chases at all costs due to losing a token on being hooked. I'd remove that downside since getting three whole gens is already a massive task and with the limit of only ever being able to get six tokens this means you'll never see any of the effects for five or six tokens unless it's a curb stomp match which… I don't like the idea of making a perk that is only effective against killers who are really bad at the game.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119145#Comment_4119145
I have teammates that die in 15s. Data mean nothing.
Oh is this like… an ego thing for you? I mean you do you buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119134#Comment_4119134
Killers are not easy. :D They brought a lot of big licenses thus a lot of new killer players and designed new killers more accessible to begginers, so they can play casual and not invest 1000hrs to master one. That's why community has voices on both sides.
Dude we have numerical evidence to show they are easy that's why they get a 60% kill rate.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119127#Comment_4119127
Good. 60+ % is exactly where it should be.
Sure that's not my point. The point is that instead of the devs basing kill rates on the objectively fair 50/50 the game is literally designed to make it so killers win more often than not. I'm not interested in saying it's wrong for the devs to make killer super easy because that's an opinion. I just want to know why so many killers have issue with the fact that their role is extremely easy due to the devs literally rigging the game in their favor.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119044#Comment_4119044
There are too many rng based situations to dictate who's favor is the game in.
Uh… hate to break it to you but we have literal numbers from the devs showing that the game is heavily biased towards killers and it's not even close. The average kill rate is above 60% and like sure the devs intentionally balance this way but let's not pretend that killer is not easy.
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Yikes, I did not realize how much they destroyed this perk. 24 meters is incredibly small, you'll be lucky to get more than two tokens a game for a perk that really does not give all that much and could easily nuke a gen.
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@Nazzzak said:
One thing I've noticed is that the killer perk updates are rightfully based on killer feedback, such as helping M1s catch up to a degree with more recent map traversing killers. And I think that's great, it's what should be done. But then I look at the survivor perk updates and it doesn't feel like it's based on survivor feedback, but rather based on addressing killer pain points with regards to survivor gameplay. I don't see survivor voices in any of this. It feels like there is a whole missing subset of feedback. I'm frankly not surprised at the ridiculous queue times anymore. I'm not sure where the feedback to the devs is being filtered through but a lot seems to be getting left out.
I think this perfectly summarizes how I feel too. None of the major issues survivors have are being addressed and many of them are only getting worse. It's like the devs are intentionally ignoring survivor issues since if they did things randomly then sometimes it'd benefit survivors. Right now none of the perk reworks are particularly interesting or all that usable outside of extremely niche builds. Many of the changes don't fix the issues with the perk design or just make them totally unusable. It's like there's not a single survivor on the dev team and at this point I can only assume it's because ignoring the survivor playerbase is somehow making them more money.
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@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
I may be one of the few people who believe this - but STBFL + Dark arrogance is actually a non-broken combo. Yes it does offer a 52.5% faster recovery - but that is ONLY a single second. Honestly - I'd be in favor or buffing/reworking STBFL to go from 5% for 6/7/8 tokens to 5/6/7% for 8 tokens.
Even then - the cooldown would not honestly change that much (about a 1/4 of a second). If paired Dark Arrogance then that would then be about a 1 second cooldown, but at that point, you are dedicating 2 perks for M1 recovery that could otherwise be used for gen defense or for zoning (IE bamboozle, pain res, pop goes weasel, light borne, etc)
Yeah that single second actually makes a massive difference for some killers.
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@Arcturus said:
A lot of people on the forums, including me, have been asking for 5 chests in every trial for these niche perks and builds. I think it would be a great change for them, and simultaneously BHVR could get rid of all coin addons to remove bloodweb clutter.
Coins should 100% stay. Like, even if everyone brings a purple coin you aren't going to get more value from a chest build than you are from just bringing a normal build.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118960#Comment_4118960
That's difference. Undetectable is not op, elusive is. Killer is one player, survivors are group of 4. They should have perks with minor effects and killer should have the big gamechanging ones.
Hahaha no. Undetectable is extremely powerful on certain killers who don't have loud footsteps. As someone else mentioned, bubba being able to chainsaw you instantly with no way to know they are coming is a very powerful move. Free damage you otherwise would not get is very powerful.
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@Artimenius1307 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118928#Comment_4118928
Partially, you are correct. Last gen is the highest stakes state of the game and thus feels much more important in terms of defending.
However, you are wrong in thinking this is related to current discussion of pain res. The 18s of regression pain res provides are absolutely equal whether used at 5 gens or 1 gen. The 18s at 5 gens might as well be "18 seconds before survivors move to the crucial last gen".
And the bigger factor, is that it's not last gen that gives pain res bigger value. It's the 1v3 condition which gives it bigger value. But even still, ANY regression perk gets much bigger value in 1v3 scenario, this is not pain res exclusive. So it's not the design of the perk, it's the wide gap of 1v4 and 1v3.
As I said before, don't nerf the perk because it helps unhealthiest strategy, nerf the strategy itself or buff the healthiest one, spreading hooks.
Again no that's just not how the game works. It's much harder for survivors to get progress on the last gen because it's the last gen. The killer only has three places to protect and thus it's much easier to interrupt and stop survivors on gens. Likewise resources are going to be depleted and make it much harder for survivors to do the final gen safely. Finally if you do tunnel it requires almost perfect teamwork from the survivors to do. The last generator matters far more because of this and any gen regression or slowdown matters far more.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118885#Comment_4118885
Well, if you say then I guess that nothing is issue on killer side either. :)
Tell you what. When the devs add in the ability to see who the killer is and add perks that totally negate their powers I'll agree with you Elan. Until then just use lightborn or learn how to deal with flashlights.
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@Artimenius1307 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118886#Comment_4118886
Yeah no. Current design neither encourages nor discourages tunneling/not tunneling. It's a simple gen regression perk. Disabling it after someone dies simply will, as I said before, make people replace it with another perk. This is not a solution to the tunneling, this is a suggestion to nerf perk instead of addressing the core issue. Do you really think nerfing pain res this way will affect tunneling in the slightest?
What really doesn't encourage not tunneling, is the game itself like lmao can we start suggesting actual benefits for spreading hooks? Right now there are none of them, spreading hooks, the healthiest strategy for the game, is also the worst one for killers to use
… No, regression on the last generators matter far more than the first few. The only generator that matters is the last one and by making the last one or few harder to get through that provides far more value than slowing down the first few generators. I am sorry if this sounds patronizing but this is rudimentary gameplay flow that you should understand if you want to look knowledgeable.
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@Artimenius1307 said:
There is a more elegant way to do this, instead of disabling it completely, which I feel is a bad design choice for any of the perk to do to deny their full potential.
Just make it "When you hook a survivor on Scourge Hook first time, for every survivor alive generator with highest progress loses 3/4/5% of total progress". This way pain resonances will be 20% while all survivors are alive, but 15% if one got killed. 15% of a generator is 13,5s, instead of 18, which is a big difference already.
Straight up disabling it after kill will just make people replace it with another perk, and what then? Make them disable after kill too? Repeat until all of them are disabled?
The point is to discourage tunneling one survivor until they are dead. Which the perk in it's current state does nothing to actually encourage and since it gets stronger the longer the game goes on it's incentivizing people to hard tunnel.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118766#Comment_4118766
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118776#Comment_4118776
Champion of Light is survivor version of Knockout. Perk that so many people complain about "the buff". + It gives haste on top of that so it creates even more distance. Low tiers get nuked by it, high tiers don't care. Finesse is the same issue. While killers with high pings (most of my games) will hit you anyway, killers with good pings are robbed once evey 30s.
Okay but the killers can just go around the pallet if it's that strong or just… ya know equip lightborn if they are that scared?
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118657#Comment_4118657
To be fair if killer sacrifice two perks to get mid game quicker chases it's already hindering them with lack of gen pressure. I don't think those changes are problematic at all. Dark Arrogance should just be restricted in small area around hooked survivor so it's not such a counter to trading hooks. But perks like STBFL or Forced Hesitation are already perks allowing similiar issues and not trully causing them in reality out of endgame hook to defend hook. Which is fine. EGC should be heavily survivor sided and saves should be insanely difficult 1) it wouůd massively increase escape rate as a lot of scenarios where survivors would have 3 out end in 4K 2) Killers that don't do well at performance should have some reward for staying in the match.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding that a lot of killers have. The best gen pressure comes from having survivors dying or on hook. If you can end a chase faster then that's going to result in better gen slowdown than most gen perks.
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I think this would actually be pretty good exhaustion perk.
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@T1MEXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118746#Comment_4118746
No not team only yourself.
Then change the wording, as is that states it's for any survivor. Still I can't see this as anything other than a worse badda badda boom and it does not even work as a combo due to diminishing returns. I'd change it so that each plank increases a survivor vault speed by twenty percent. That way the killer has the choice of vaulting to take the hit to get rid of the extra vault speed and it pairs extremely well with Bada Bada Boom. And seriously remove the injury thing, that's just such a horrible downside for a perk.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472433/background-player-rework
Champion of Light, Background Player, Power Struggle, Finesse and many more unhealthy perks will hopefully be touched too. I agree that Background player is very oppressive and should receive complete rework, but elusive isn't it. Make it oppossite of OG version. When you unhook survivor, they gain 150 % haste for 3s. They can choose whether to get away or heal under hook. Of course must be deactivated in EGC.
How is Champion of Light and fineness unhealthy? I mean I can at least see some arguments for power struggle but I really do not understand the other two.
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This would be so good and a much needed change given that the stealth class is hard countered by the sheer level of aura reading. I do however think the elusive should be unlocked after being caged once since otherwise you'd have people who literally do nothing but hide all game.
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It'd be better than the nothing it is now.
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Possibly one of the worst perk suggestions I've seen this year. No offense but any perk that can literally kill my team is not a perk that should exist in any way shape or form.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118726#Comment_4118726
if they are bringing an anti boon perk it should be good.
This is no justification for revealing the boon totem's aura; there is nothing the survivor can do about it, absolutely nothing.
The survivor cannot benefit from Boon perks at all, because once the totem blessing is complete, the killer will immediately see the boon totem aura.
The killer does nothing to see the aura of the Boon totem; it is simply a golden platter given to the killer only because the survivor completed the totem blessing.
I get where you are coming from and I don't like the devs releasing perks to counter niche playstyles especially since boons are still pretty weak (the illumination changed nothing). However I do think killer perks should generally be on the better side since dedicating 25% of your build to something that may not be in the game is kinda a big risk.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I used to like BT this is such a travesty. Bill would NOT want this! Bill helps others at his own cost.
Taking hits with endurance is just so bad to encourage. I find it so irritating because it promotes old dbd philosophy. You don't take hits off hook!
Hey now, it actually works in line with Bill. The perk is now extremely good for people who want to be tunneled out and take protection hits for people with endurance no matter how bad of an idea this is.
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TBH certain killers just should not have access to certain perks especially if they are going to be as egregious as this.
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Look I'm a survivor main since killer is too easy but like, if they are bringing an anti boon perk it should be good.
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@Wyndsor said:
Camping and tunneling are both acceptable and encouraged by the devs, probably best to just accept it.
Yeah it'd be a lot easier to accept if they weren't constantly making both playstyles stronger and removing mechanics from survivors to counter it.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118615#Comment_4118615
Their contributions added nothing to the discussion and put words in my mouth and uses nearly worthless analogies.
Where did I call for chests to be made worse? Nowhere, that's where.
I am just calling for a chest-centered perk that is getting buffed to have its buff slightly tempered, that's all. It would still result in a significant indirect net buff to chests.
@esarraf comes in here and many threads I post in and gaslights trying to make me look like I'm being unreasonable when I have never seen him actually be reasonable himself. No, I am not insulting him like you or others may try to accuse me of. I am just objectively stating my observed experience about this particular forum member.
Whatever. At this point I rescind my own suggestion. As long as Pharmacy has a less than 1% pick rate who cares?
That's not what gaslighting is. I'm pointing out that notion that having a lot of items will be too strong is completely ridiculous as proven by the simple fact Dramaturgy is not an S tier perk despite the fact it can theoretically create hundreds of items. Also that it's silly to think that chest builds could ever be strong because spending minutes running around the map to collect and unlock chests is always going to be worse than just doing gens or getting saves.
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Don't worry, soon enough it'll be 30 minutes all on it's own with how the devs have decided to balance things.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118486#Comment_4118486
Bro actually doesn't see a problem with practically infinite items or someone spending all match opening/rummaging chests. Might as well have left the infinite Streetwise bug in the game as it's close to the same thing.
Thanks for your excellent contribution to this thread. You never fail to disappoint.
Dude, your complaint is on the same level as saying draumaturgy is broken because it can be used to farm items. No one could possibly take this seriously.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118485#Comment_4118485
I'm doubting this was your intention, to be totally honest. Because you could have listed a character this perk is actually good on like Artist.
So either you actually thought it's good on Ghoul or you don't even know a killer it is good on.
Lmao, bro can't read and actually trying to play it off.
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Bro is actually asking for chests to be worse. I can't even make this stuff up. Someone in 2026 is asking for a chest perk to be nerfed.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118316#Comment_4118316
What point? Your point was that it's broken on Ghoul and therefore it must be nerfed. It's pointless on Ghoul.
Please try reading my comment before replying. This is just embarrassing. The point was that if it's too strong on any killer that means that the perk is too strong and needs to be nerfed. It's why I said killers like ghoul, key word being like.
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The main issue with it came from certain killers
Krasuewho force survivors into an auto lose situation with little to no effort or skill needed on part of the killer. -
It does feel like a lot of the changes were only so they could say they changed a bunch of perks but not actually have to put in the work of making perks usable or something people would want.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118219#Comment_4118219
How is this perk broken on Ghoul? This perk is borderline useless for Ghoul. He can use it to occasionally jump over a god pallet of which I can think of like 2 in the entire game where he can use this.
Ghoul's specialty is countering people trying to hold W. This is an anti-hold W perk. The counter to Ghoul is to play pallets and tiles and avoid playing for distance.
This is a perk for someone like Artist, Chucky, Xenomorph who actually does struggle with survivors pre-dropping and trying to play for distance. These killers are the total opposite of Ghoul, where they are very strong in a tile but don't have a meaningful way of closing the distance on people.
Also Spookyloopz released a video testing all the new killer perk changes today and trying to see which ones are strong, and he couldn't get Knock Out to get value at all. It's a pretty great video to display how limited this perk is in a realistic context despite how good it looks on paper.
Man I can hear the point going over your head right now.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118026#Comment_4118026
- For Bubba: If you vault the window and begin pre-revving your chainsaw, the survivor is going to vault back into shack and keep moving. Even with Bubba's fast pallet break I think the survivor gets enough distance to reach something else due to the density of pallets these days. Also I don't think the perk is very good on him in general (despite it being his perk) as he is so good at sawing through pallets that taking it specifically to try to outplay one specific tile which may not be in the map just isn't a good idea.
- For Myers: You're dead after dropping shack pallet in most circumstances anyway. A lot of shacks are pushed up against the corners of the map with the pallet side facing towards the edge map. If you reach the pallet Myers will try to charge Slaughtering Strike, break it, and then run you down and kill you, all of these shenanigans with Bamboozle and Knock Out are pointless. Myers is a 1v1 beast and it's why playing against him is so unpleasant these days.
- For Blight and Ghoul: If you're trying to play for distance versus these two then you're playing wrong anyway. Even without Knock Out you have to stay at whatever pallet you just dropped until the killer breaks it because you will not make it to a different tile without the killer breaking the pallet to put their power on cooldown. Even then there has to be something else within a few feet or they'll catch up with power and hit you. I do not see Blight especially ever running this perk.
- You don't play pallets versus Nurse except out of desperation, you try to break LoS and confuse her. If you ever drop a pallet versus Nurse it's because you have literally no other option and you're trying to stun her to buy a couple more seconds. Once she recovers from the stun she hits you regardless. No Nurse is ever going to run a perk which triggers off of survivors dropping pallets because it's completely pointless.
Out of all of the killers you just mentioned, the only one who is likely to run it is Ghoul, as they can use their vaulting power to outplay god pallets like the one in Garden of Joy's house, for example.
The issue being that even one killer like ghoul who can use this automatically means the perk needs a total rework or massive nerf. Since all perks are available to all killers it being broken on one killer means the perk is broken and needs to be changed.