Thusly_Boned
Thusly_Boned
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From Mandy's announcement post:
"From the bottom of our hearts, we want to thank you for your support and the passion you have brought to these forums all these years. You have been a foundational, core element of this community and we do not take this change lightly. We know many of you have built bonds and connections with each other, and even directly with our team, because of this platform and we’ll always honour that."
Clearly that's not true at all, unless by "honour" they mean erase. This is really BHVR talking out the side of their mouths if they're just going to scrub the forum from history.
Not only going to put the forum down like a dog but bury it in an unmarked grave.If this is the route they are going, it's hard to see it as anything but disrespect.
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So many over the years, many of them long gone, but @Pulsar, @GoodBoyKaru, @C3Tooth, @GeneralV, and @CountOfTheFog come immediately to mind. I could think of dozens more who have really made this place fun and engaging if I sat here for long.
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I occasionally use Discord and Reddit, but I would never go to either for the sort of discussion that happens here.
So I am probably done with DBD community engagement. -
Well, in the history of inexplicably gigabrain moves by BHVR, this is certainly one of them.
Like many others, I will not be moving to Discord/Reddit, so this will likely be the end of community engagement for me. Yes, the forums aren't what they have been (partially due to killing off some of the most tenured members), but keeping a board like this alive is such a light lift for a company with the resources BHVR has.
I've been trying to justify continuing to invest in DBD generally, and this isn't going to add to that case.
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For context, I've been playing since 2019, started out as a killer main and have slowly shifted to being a 50/50 player (I probably reached fully even split in like 2022) and now to about a 60/40 surv player. I have only played solo queue (well, I have played in SWF like 4-5 times, the last time probably in 2020). I have about 6K hours.
As recently as last year I was a player who would iri 1 both roles every single season. I haven't done that once this year, and more often than not it's bronze/silver. I'm definitely trending toward burnout. I've had phases like this over the years, but they only usually lasted 3-4 weeks. This is like 9 months. I log in, hit my dailies like it's my job, and then log off.There are a few reasons I may quit soon, I think; some of them have been discussed in this thread. But I'll list some of them:
1. Simple burnout. I think a lot of people suffer from this and perhaps don't realize it, especially those of us who have been playing for many years. It's hard to play one game this long.2. Stale gameplay. Related closely to #1; at its core the game hasn't changed much, and the loop is not that deep. Other game modes have helped (some more than others), but so many times I'm sitting there looping or being looped and thinking "why am I doing this again?" I know what my opponent is going to do, and they probably know what I'm going to do.
It's like Groundhog Day.
3. Despite what some people want to believe, it's not particularly skill expressive. It's mechanically simple and imprecise. Being good at DBD is more learning to exploit the game's innumerable bad design elements. I guess that might constitute skill to some people, but not to me. At a certain point it just stops being rewarding. It just becomes doing the thing because it's the thing you do, not because you really want to.
4. DbD is flawed at the genetic level and will never be "fixed". Ever. Those of us that have done this for ages know this, even if we don't want to accept it. It's a house made of spaghetti sitting on a foundation of sand. BHVR would have to start from scratch to make a fair and balanced game (they won't).
5. As futile as it is, the devs seem to either not want the game to be balanced or are too incompetent to know what it even is. We see this in just about everything they touch from perks to maps to powers. They can't make a sensible change without trying to compensate by making an unnecessary counter change. Lots of going too far, too much overtuning, never knowing or caring when they've gone too far.
I mean the current state of killer/surv balance is a testament to this; if you were to go back to 2020 and tell someone that the game would be anything but decidedly survivor sided (and boy, was it) they would have thought you crazy. Yet here we are. They went right past balance to imbalance again, in the opposite reaction. Changes all seem impulsive, hamfisted and poorly thought out.
They can't/won't fix one thing without breaking another; if I didn't think it was incompetence I'd think they were trolling us all.
After 10 years, there's not much reason to hope they'll learn or change (or care to, even).
6. As a veteran player, I'm (we're) never going to be their priority. It'd be bad business. I've spent my money (far too much of it), I'm a well with not as much water in it as a new player. And there are a lot more of them as there of us.
And like many, I'd bet the main reason I didn't quit years ago is sunk cost. Almost seven years and many hundreds of dollars. Feeling like you have to throw time and money after time and money already spent is a profoundly dumb reason to keep doing it, but it's human nature thing.
I kinda resent myself for it some days. Most days when I boot up DBD I think to myself "I'm not even going to have fun; why am I not trying something new instead?"
One of these days I'll move on, and I feel like it's getting closer. -
@HexSlugged said:
the ellen ripley in dbd isnt technically Sigourney weaver due to licensing issues from my understanding
Yeah, temu Ripley was one of the biggest disappointments I've experienced in DbD, and I'm still salty about it lol. If we had actual Ripley, she'd be my 1a surv main.
That aside, maybe they used a shorter model to further distance her visually from Weaver apprearance wise?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115734#Comment_4115734
I had 150k xD
I spent a lot recently with judgement. I am REALLY particular about my shards and where I spend them.
Yeah, if I didn't spend my shards on a new outfit pretty much every time I hit 21K (not to mention all the original characters I've bought with shards), god knows how many I have after all these years. If you play DBD like you have no life, 115K is pocket change.
Most people have earned more than that, they just spend them and never see it all at once.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
but seriously always moving all 4 together to rush gens and spam the flashlight from every angles while im carrying a survivor or trying to get a looper is really TOXIC
I mean, are they rushing Gens or are they running around with a Flashlight? You cannot have both, Survivors who want to play a lot with Flashlights are not doing Gens.
And well, how often does this actually happen? Like, how many games have you experienced with this before you wrote this Thread? It cannot be more than one. I almost never see 4 Survivors bringing Flashlights, most of the time it maybe 1 and at most 2. Especially if they are a SWF, they dont all bring Flashlights, as long as they are not an actual Bully Squad with Head On and what not.
If you see 4 Flashlights in the Lobby, equip Lightborn. But then you should not be surprised if they finish the Gens quickly to get into the next game where they actually can use their item.
Yeah, this sort of thing is not common. I mean it does happen, but I can't believe more than a handful of times a month will anyone get bully teams who who just mob you with flashlights all match with no attempt to actually win. These matches just stick out in your memory. Hell, I still vividly remember a few of these from like 2019 before I knew what I was doing and flashlights were the bane of my existence.
Usually a SWF will have one or two flashlight users who harass you while the others do gens. Which if they are good, is much more annoying than four goobers with flashlights trying to bully you.
Which brings me to the next point, which is that most of the time this fails to even succeed in tormenting the killer if they are any good. Flashlights kinda suck, tbh, and when I see four of them in a lobby, I know I'm gonna win, even if it's not much fun for anyone. If you go into a match knowing that's what you're up against, it's not that hard to shut it down (even without Lightborn) unless they are super coordinated. If they are, you slug.
The one thing a person must not do in these situations is get tilted. If you are chill and know your counterplay, it's nbd.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109877#Comment_4109877
I just don't understand that kind of perk design, at that point just make it a non exhaustion, exhaustion is the limit? tune the exhaustion timer?
crazy especially with the vigil nerf.The hit negating effect is still powerful (much more so than the haste you get from SB/Lithe/BL), so it should be somewhat limited by exhaustion.
I think the only buff to DH I could get behind would be starting with it, so you get up to three uses.
The OG version where you could get essentially unlimited uses was just stupidly unhealthy. -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109568#Comment_4109568
Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like it’s pretty universally accepted that a win is escaping as survivor (with all gens done and gate open) or 3-4K as killer.The first part is not universally accepted as all. Plenty of players would happily take a 3e where they died over a 1e where they were the only one to escape.
Now keep in mind that “win” doesn’t necessarily translate to “skill”, which BHVR still doesn’t seem to understand.This is a common misunderstanding of BHVR's argument.
In the long run, which is what MMR cares about, the exceptions wash out. Across a 100 or a 1000 games will people escape matches they shouldn't and die in ones they should? Absolutely. It's just not statistically relevant and generally applies equally to all players.
Yeah, a "win" as a surv is much more subjective. I for one would feel much better about making great plays that allowed 2-3 of my teammates to escape than putzing around and slinking out while my teammates died. It's not at all uncommon for the worst surv on a team to be the only one who gets out.
But other people have different ideas about this, and that's the point. Too hard to settle on one surv wincon.
Which is why I think that while not perfect, emblems/scoring is the best way to settle surv MMR. You can be bad but escape consistently if you play a certain way. It's not so easy to be bad and consistently rack up high scores. -
@Reinami said:
As a fan of Eva, my favorite anime of all time actually. This would totally happen because they collab with literally everyone. Want a razor? They got you covered. Want a waffle maker? You got it! Canned bread. Buckets, you name it, they literally collab with anything and everyone.
I doubt we'd ever be able to get a chapter out of it. At most MAYBE as a skin for the judgement (angel and such?) and maybe like Feng doing a cosplay or something.
Yeah, I love NGE, and have been a fan going all the way back to the 90's when I paid too much to import the VHS's. But I don't see it as chapter material for a variety of reasons.
But an AoT style collab with skins?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109849#Comment_4109849
Yeah but it's not really casual friendly anymore is it, now it's just as strong but is latency dependant and it can only be used one way, boring
I prefer'd old Dead Hard any day over current. At least it was unique and had lots of ways to use it for skill expression/interaction.Of course, any survivor would prefer OG DH, it was grossly overpowered. Like beyond busted. A joke of a perk.
The difference now is that it actually takes some skill/though to use it effectively. While it'll never be as powerful as it was, there is actually some element of surprise to it now, because not everyone and their cousin runs it anymore.
Honestly there have been so many other surv perks egregiously and unjustifiably nerfed in recent months/years that it just feels silly (and disingenuous to anyone with any objectivity) to include OG DH in these discussions.
What was done to OG DH was totally called for and at the time was long overdue. -
@Man_of_triangles said:
It's not the worst state for killer ever, it's the worst balance between killers ever. Nearly every killer added in the last couple years has been A tier and does just fine in the current meta, and if your killer isn't A tier, well, too bad, it's the worst it's been since the 2010s. This is why, when you play survivor, you have to play about 30-50 matches to get matched against a mere B tier killer.
Yeah, I think genrally speaking about the killer role and how easy it is to win (or feel comeptitive at the very least), killer is in the best shape it's ever been…if you pick the right killers.
The balance within the killer roster is abysmal, the worst it has been (at least since I started playing like seven years ago). Which is, as you say, the reason you see the same killers over and over as survivor, especially as you climb in MMR.
Which is why over the years I have shifted from a killer main to mostly killer, to 50/50, and now towards mostly surv. Not because killer has generally gotten harder or more grueling (it has not), but because the killers I prefer to play get less viable by the day.
As someone else said here, many people don't like to think they are winning more because balance is tilted in their favor, which is why I generally avoid using the S/A tier killers (rather than do a bunch of mental gymnastics to convince myself that the balance isn't what it is).
It's really unfortunate as balancing killers against each other would allow BHVR to more effectively balance the game as a whole, but they seem as content as ever to keep feeding the already well-fed. It's like survs and cosmetics, if they're popular, they lean into them, if not, well, you get forgotten. Good for business, bad for game health. -
@AliceNull said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107921#Comment_4107921
It is absolutely not the dev's fault that a loud enough group of stupid, entitled players started just making things up about how her power worked in order to get mad at the things they invented. Again, most of the people who DCd against skull merchant could not even get the most basic elements of her kit correctly! Of course a killer is going to be frustrating to go against if you don't even bother to understand what they even do! It'd be like deciding we need to nerf Xenomorph because a group of players crossed their arms, pouted, and said "I'm not putting down flame turrets though", or removing head traps from pig because those players suddenly just refused to try and take them off and died for it. People hated her for things a kit that no longer existed did over a year after it was reworked out of the game!
Yeah, this is like half the community lol. To be clear, I really didn't/don't like SM (even in her 2.0 form) and would cheer for a total overhaul, but refusing to play against a killer just because you don't like them and can't be bothered to learn counterplay isn't making anything better, it just leads to general brain rot.
They fixed the worst parts of her, but a lot of people just couldn't let it go, and here we are with an effectively dead killer. I'm sure that feels validating to those who hate her, but it's a bad precedent to set.
And just DC'ing against anything you don't like is not acceptable behavior. No one is going to love everything in the game, if a person doesn't want to accept that they might have to play through some miserable matches here and there, they shouldn't queue up. -
@100PercentBPMain said:
dbd used to be bad but I don't see how it is when there's nothing you "MUST HAVE". These days you can pick which way you swing and be off to the races in a jiffy. There is no "I went a whole prestige and didn't get BBQ" anymore.
The initial grind has been deepening, but our gains are Exponential now. 1 prestige gives you lifetime access across everybody old dbd players would kill for that.
I get where you're coming from logically, but just because something used to be abysmal doesn't mean people should cheerfully accept it now being simply awful.
And I really don't think those of us who have been playing this game since the beginning or near the beginning and pretty much own everything already really should be the most vocal on this, either. This is really something disproportionately affecting newer players who are seeing this from a perspective we can only imagine.
But even so, it's not hard to step back and see the issue, and BHVR seeming to get stingier with the BP isn't helping. Yes, they've done a lot to functionally reduce the grind, but the scale of the game is just so much bigger than it was.
And I don't think it would be so aggravating if there weren't so many commonsense things they could easily do to alleviate the issues. -
@Angy_Quentin said:
No idea. A 3k and a 4k is exactly the same for me and i enjoy the thrill of searching for the hatch with the last survivor. Most times i let them go.
I feel the same. At 3K I've won. If the fourth is right there then I down the third I'll go for them, but I'm not gonna waste my own time to spend minutes scouring the map while the third is just lying there. I'll still try to kill the fourth in the hatch search, but I'm unbothered if they end up getting out.
Honestly, it's just crazy tde when people slug for the 4K, I think. Like the need to keep anyone from leaving the map not on their terms is just kinda sad, imo. Just take the W and go next.
I suppose the one exception here for me used to be if the fourth surv played like a total rat the whole game, then I might have tracked them down and let the third one go. But now they'll just both abandon 90% of the time in that scenario, so I don't bother. -
@Reinami said:
Personally, i only do it when i'm trying to do a quest or something that requires me to blind. It is usually at least a single guaranteed blind, maybe even 2 if i get a pallet stun. Otherwise it is legitimately a waste of time as you'd be better off just gaining distance instead. Any decent killer will hear where you go anyway.
Yeah, I just assume people do it for one of two reasons:
1. They're going for some sort of blind challenge2. They are inexperienced and think it will actually help them win the chase (which is pretty much only true against potato killers)
I almost never use flashlights myself, but I have only done this when trying to complete a blind challenge because it is the most easy/reliable way to get them.
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I don't think an MMR wipe would be necessary, but the ensuing chaos would sure be fun (for a while, anyway).
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@Xendritch said:
It's hard to take a post that defends original Dead Hard one of the most obviously unhealthy perks the game of all time seriously. Not to mention completely ignoring the fact that plenty of killer perks have also been nerfed Undying, Ruin, NOED, Call of Brine, Pop, STBFL, Ultimate Weapon, etc so acting like only one side gets what it wants is revisionist history.
Yeah, there are a lot of good points being made here, but anyone trying to argue this case would do well to just omit any mention of the DH nerf, since that was arguably the most busted single item/perk the game has ever seen, and the fact that it was allowed to exist as it did for so long was a travesty. Really, the whole surv meta immediately pre-6.1.0 was a joke.
And yeah, a lot of recency bias and revisionist history; people quickly forget how survivor sided this game was, and it was like that for years. While mostly true, many of the things being said here about killer players crying and getting what they want has been equally true of survs in the past.
But I suppose that's illustrative of the bigger issue I see with these balancing changes - BHVR just can't seem to leave well enough alone in a lot of cases. Like post 6.1.0 things seemed to be moving towards balance (at least as balanced as this game can get), but now the pendulum has swung too far in a lot of cases. Like you can balance things without punishing the other side for having been in the advantaged position previously by over balancing.
They either don't go far enough, or they go way too far.But I will say that I don't think there is a general practice to favor killers here, because that would be stupid, as most DBD players are surv players and it would cost them long term. I just think they can't (or won't) see the forest for the trees on balancing.
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For sure, it's beyond time some of the OG's get new moris. Some of them a so basic and out of place that it's jarring, and not in a good way.
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I'd definitely like to see less Ghoul/Blight, who I seem to face in like half of my surv matches. And like others, I wouldn't be sad if I never faced a Legion again.
A few years ago I wouldn't have imagined saying this, but I don't see nearly enough Huntress, who I really enjoy facing (especially the really good ones). I also wouldn't mind seeing more of Henry/Vecna. Demo, too.
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I've learned a lot of things, but one stands above the rest: don't take the game seriously. Like, at all.
It's not serious game, and taking it that way will only lead to torment
As far as in game stuff, there's simply too much to name. Like the game is constantly changing, so the learning curve will last for as long as the game does.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094983#Comment_4094983
The thing is, the poison is not even bad. It guarantees a Hit, there is no way the Survivor can avoid being hit after being slowed down so much. It is just boring. But then again, Remote Pallet Breaks or Exposed were also not really exciting, but at this point Survivors got garbage, so Killer Mains did not care for their abilities being boring.
Yeah, the poison is highly effective, really (on certain of killers, anyway). For example, Bubbas and killers with insta-downs are wrecking people in this event. But like you said, it's just boring AF; I have no real desire to play killer this time at all even though I know I could win. I'd rather lose having fun than win a snoozefest.
Heck, I don't even mind dying as much as a surv in this event because there are a bunch of new mechanics to just goof around with.
I do disagree that no creators talked about past event's being imbalanced, though. A lot of people talked about how imbalanced the remote hooks/pallet breaks were, at least among the creators I follow. -
@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096063#Comment_4096063
I have yet to lose to a basement trapper. Just stop going in all at once and do generators. Altruism is the number one survivor killer. The amount of game I have lost because my other teammates go in to save while thd killer is breaking a pallet bear hook or hasn't even had the chance to leave yet is inane. And as killer the amount of times I have won slugging all 4 people because they all true yo pallet or flashlight save. Survivors need to learn how to use the hook timer to there advantage.
Give it enough time and it'll happen. Granted it will probably because you step in a trap near shack before you know you're facing a Trapper, but it happens to even the best players sometimes.
Of course, once you know you're facing a Trapper and where the basement spawned, there's no excuse for it.
But yeah, people are ignorant about it; I've had teammates throw themselves into the trapped basement when the killer is right there even when the person on hook has kindred. Same with basement Bubbas. It is pretty wild watching people be lemmings. It's even more wild when you're on hook, holding on to try to give your team uninterrupted time on gens, and they keep coming.
You really gotta love SBMM. -
@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095352#Comment_4095352
all praise PlayStation for its privacy settings, truly.
Yeah, I play primarily on PSN and I have my messaging set to friends only, and as a rule I never accept friend requests form people I don't know (so anyone runs into me and tries and gets no response, don't take it personally).
I play in a pretty benign way, but sometimes I will get absolutely spammed by friend requests after a match. The idea of some unhinged person actively crashing out because they know that I will never hear/see what they have to say amuses me; they're just left malding into the void lol
A person can really insulate themselves pretty well if they want.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095504#Comment_4095504
Some of these people also seem to think that this is an effective way of demonstrating/illustrating issues with the game to the devs (spoiler - it isn't)
It would be pretty stupid for them not to take note of these trends. If something is despised in the game by a large number of people in a trackable way it should be looked at and adjusted to be less detestable.
There is only one way to effectively send a message about the game state, and that is no not log in.
How do they know what to fix if people just stop playing? There are zillion potential issues.
Beyond actual game rules, operating in online game communities entails something of a social contract, though many don't seem to agree, so they just say screw the rest of you, I'm gonna make you sit in my poopy diapers with me.
Thr problem is everyone has a different idea of what's in that contract.
The problem is also that people DC for a million different reasons, any reason you can imagine; I'd wager far more reasons than people will stop playing for. People have always DC'ed and will always DC, and will do so in trends that are predictable even when the reasons aren't good (like pretty much after every killer release or meta shakeup, good or bad).
DCs are just a constant, annoying statistical noise, there's not really ever a reliable signal in it.Hitting them in the player count is what really sends a message, but like we're seeing now with this garbage tier event and the great cake fiasco, there is no meaningful action because people are signing on in record numbers. It's why the ghoul is largely unchanged, and why Nurse is still a thing. DCs don't hurt BHVR so long as you DC and keep playing.
A huge dip in player count after a change is a much more reliable indicator of community wide displeasure because people always DC, people stopping playing en masse is a much less frequent occurrence and easier to directly correlate to.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/469456/are-disconnect-penalties-really-necessary
If you’re not enjoying the game, then don’t play it. Allowing people to ruin others’ matches consequence free is not the solution here. Plenty of people are having fun with the game, evidenced by the all-time high player count. People who are not enjoying it are either burned out (which is fine, I get it) or just have unrealistic expectation relative to their skill level.
Yes, this.
There seems to be this notion among some people that because they aren't having as much fun as they would like, they're entitled to express their displeasure by DC'ing. Some of these people also seem to think that this is an effective way of demonstrating/illustrating issues with the game to the devs (spoiler - it isn't). Or that it will stop other players from using the killer or perks they don't like (it won't).The only people getting punished are their teammates. As long as you're logging in, BHVR is getting what they want - engagement with their product.
There is only one way to effectively send a message about the game state, and that is no not log in.
And you say that if people aren't having fun, they shouldn't play; and that's the rational, obvious best course of action. It's what I do when I am really turned off by this game or any game.But I'm increasingly convinced some people would rather be miserable so long as they can make other people miserable as well than to just do something else and actually have fun.
Beyond actual game rules, operating in online game communities entails something of a social contract, though many don't seem to agree, so they just say screw the rest of you, I'm gonna make you sit in my poopy diapers with me.
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@Senaxu said:
without DC penalties the game would turn into PvE pretty fast. Wrong killer, wrong map, fast first down, fast first gen.
in fact DC penalties should be harsher if anything. 1st First DC 5min, 2nd DC 15 min, 3rd DC 1 hour, 4hours and so on.Yeah, I would say make the first DC penalty really light, and maybe the second (in case a person is having network issues), but escalate dramatically beyond that. Basically, make it so habitual offenders end up with the entire day(s) off if they can't control themselves.
Like 60 seconds for the first, 2-5 minutes for the second, an hour for the third, four hours for the third, 12 hours for the fourth, etc.If people consistently hit the daily cap, hit them with like a 48-72 hour penalty.
If people are just chronically DC'ing, they don't need to be allowed in to public lobbies.
Or axe the penalty and make a "quitters queue", where people who DC too much can ruin each other's matches and not the rest of ours until they knock it off. -
The event sucks out loud, even from a surv perspective for me (I wouldn't play the killer side in this one), and the reduced cake rate really kills any desire for me to play/endure it. I'm still playing some after they "fixed" (lol) the cake rate, but barely.
Which is sad because I am usually fully locked in for the anniversary events, even when they're not great. -
@Jay_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095078#Comment_4095078
Im not saying my reason to play is more important at all you have just read far to much into what i have said. End of the day the cake issue isn't a big deal for majority of the player base as everyone still continues to play the game despite complaining.
I think that the assumption that the mjority of the player base doesn't care about the cake/progression issue is a bold and probably erroneous one.
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095081#Comment_4095081
I think they know exactly what they're doing. They are tuned in. They know this is a playerbase that whines and cries and moans while simultaneously punching in their credit card numbers. The two things they need are profit and engagement and they're getting lots of both right now. There's zero reason to act. I expect will have some final act of empty pandering like that 5mil, but I'd be shocked if anything significant was done. There's simply no reason to, unless things take a sharper downturn.
The problem is, as you said, the long term. How many of these new and returning players are going to stay? And how embittered will everyone else be when the dust settles?
Yeah, they're tuned in all right, but I question whether they are able to interpret what they're seeing; like a toddler watching a physics TED Talk.
Like so many businesses nowadays, they can't see past the quarterly numbers. If their goal is long term engagement, this play is almost comically misguided, imo -
@Jay_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095068#Comment_4095068
The reason they don't want to give as many cakes is because they want players to slow down with progression. I personally don't see the big thrill in progression and i play because i like the game its self. I think players need to assess why they play this game. If they play to get p100 and thats it then why not play something other than DBD that has rewarding progression. If you don't play for prestige then you don't need cakes.
All this cake issue is doing is drawing attention away from other parts of the game that needs addressing and instead focusing on something that in the grand scheme of the game is insignifficant.The issue is that I think progression is a huge part of why a lot of people play the game, at least consistently. But cause let's be fair, a lot of the time the game is kinda miserable and boring. There are definitely stretches of time where it's only thing that gets me to log in.
And that's not just DbD; a lot of people's motivation to game (or a great many things in life, tbh) comes down to chasing progression in its various forms. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095047#Comment_4095047
But to what end? What's the feedback needed for? Is it a surprise to BHVR that people are mad the cake acquiring is at an all time low for the 10th anniversary, of all times? Feedback loops have "action" as one of their elements. Is anything going to be done?
Yeah, if they stand by this, it might be the most obstinate and out of touch thing they've done yet, and that's saying a lot
I mean in a vacuum it's not all that consequential, but it really speaks to how tuned in they are (or aren't) to the community and what motivates players to play long term -
@Revivi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095029#Comment_4095029
Just sharing my thoughts here in terms of /why/ this feels so frustrating. Being able to make a stockpile of cakes to bring throughout the year makes us play MORE, rather than less.
If there is a patch or event that feels unbalanced (which is often), tensions get high, players get sweaty. Being able to bring a cake when things get like that is a way of saying "I might get tunneled out, or chain flashlight blinded and t-bagged, but I at least got some BP". Sometimes bringing cakes even signals to the other side that you aren't there to ruin their time, but to just try to get some points and play a game. It relieves tension.
When the cakes are scarce, players wont use them as often. And instead of playing more games when things get stressful, players will just shut the game down and find something else to do.
No need to reply, I just wanted to give you a why to take back to the team, at least something more than "players want more cakes".100% this. I saw a video from Scott where he conjectured that the reason for the cake reduction is to encourage people to play more outside of the anniversary event, and it had never occurred to me because it doesn't make any sense, or at least the idea falls apart under even light scrutiny.
I mean I am more likely to play when I feel my time is being maximized the extent that it can be. If I feel like I'm not going to be able to get even a decent amount of BP for my investment of time, I'm not going to play more in service of chasing a total number, I'm simply going to be less likely to play.
Of course, there's the notion that once a player has all the things they'll stop playing, so you want to make that process take as long as possible, and while that might be true in theory, in practice it just isn't going to happen because maxing out everything in this game would take more time than anyone has.
But giving people more BP so they don't feel as much like that pursuit is as hopeless as it is would be a much better approach to keep people engaged than making every match feel like even more of a drop in the proverbial bucket (like half a drop?).
Making the grind less efficient is a really myopic way of trying to keep people engaged. Having cakes to use makes people feel like their time spent in game is more worthwhile. -
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
They did this last year actually. They were Visceral rarity (Ultra Rare) at 8k which made4 them even more sparse than they are now especially when bulk spending. It was changed halfway through the event due to outrage.
As for the reason, they outright said it was because they don't think we should still have cakes in 5 years. They want the cakes to be be for the event but not for us to have hundreds or thousands left.Yeah BHVR, well I don't want my inventory cluttered up with hundreds/thousands of useless, antiquated items and offerings that have accumulated over the years (and continue to accumulate) that I'll never have any occasion or desire to use, but here we are lol
Give us our damned cakes
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Not to beat a dead horse here (okay, it's totally to beat a dead horse), but anniversary events are often weird/annoying and even more imbalanced than usual affairs compounded by a ton of dormant casuals showing back up.
Why do I tolerate it? The cakes. Without that incentive… -
I don't really ever sweat, but my full-on chill-out killer is Huntress. Just chuckin' hatchets across the map and not really giving af.
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My kid was watching me browse the PSN store back in 2019 and DBD was on sale and he wanted me to buy it so he could play it. I did, and he played it for a while, but not long. It just sat unplayed for a few months but then I heard Ash was playable and I love Evil Dead, so I thought I'd give it a shot, even though I typically actively avoid online multiplayer games.
6K+ hours later and here we are lol
And of course, my Ash is still under P10 (I now have 5 P100 survs) and I spent 99% of my first full year as a killer/Spirit main…it did not play out like I thought lol -
Yeah, you can't just do things one way for 8-9 year sand then switch things up this drastically. Farming cakes is pretty much half the reason people show up for the anniversary event. If intentional (and how could it not be), this just feels like overt disrespect.
I'm not touching the anniversary unless this is rectified. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093232#Comment_4093232
I think at this point once you figure it out a sticky or some kind of announcement would be worth doing to know if its intended, or if it is going to be changed, or whats going on.
This; I was going to jump on after work but now am not going to play a single match until we get some clarity and/or the rarity gets fixed. Accruing cakes is a huge part of the anniversary appeal.
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Well sure, generally speaking, solo queue surv is the clearly the hardest role to play in DBD, but "playing soloq survivor is infinitely harder than Killer ever could be"? That's too much hyperbolic generalization.
I mean I've only played surv solo since 2020, but I'm here to tell you that playing a D-tier killer on a bad map against strong survs is worse. It's the most helpless I've felt in DbD, and I've played this game from just about any angle possible.
But that's the thing; playing killer isn't as consistent an experience as playing surv is. How hard it is varies wildly based on the killer you're using and the maps you get. Playing Blight on Fallen Refuge or Nurse on Midwich? Cakewalk, a trained monkey can win.
But try Myers on Badham, Onryo on Mother's Dwelling or Trapper on Eyrie against survs who aren't braindead and you will know pain. -
He's tough right now, but it this is a predictable pattern: new strong killer releases, everyone on their cousin plays them, survs have no patience for learning the counterplay and scream "OP!" and/or DQ/go next out of protest, mild nerfs eventually come, but after their pick rate dropped and people largely chilled tf out.
I think the only killer I can recall where this hate didn't blow over has been Ghoul. (I would still much rather face Jason than Ghoul)
They're not gonna emergency nerf Jason, nor should they. More data needs to be collected after some time has been given for people to adjust before they have a clear picture of what needs to be done.
FWIW I have only played surv since Jason dropped and will until the deluge subsides a bit, and I have been dying significantly more against him than others, but that's as much due to people just not knowing that to do or not trying than his actual power. I have also escaped against him more than a few times, and don't find him unfair or OP. -
@Mandy said:
That's a really good video regarding the counterplay tbh
I'm seeing more survivors crouching now as well when he's in power - this is purely annecdotal from my own matches.
I pretty much saw everyone crouching from the outset in my matches (I didn't participate in PTB). I feel like the word was largely out by the time he hit live.
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Abusive post-game chat, otherwise harassing people outside of the match.
Anything in game can be varying degrees of BM, but can't rise to "toxicity", imo. Though that would change if the devs ever made the mistake of adding in game voice comms.
Of course, a lot of this is down to semantics and how we define things. -
It's not even the internet necessarily. I have fiber with an ethernet run to all my gaming devices and it still happens on occasion.
If it happens more than once in a day I just walk away lol -
I'm sitting on the code until the anniversary event starts so I don't have to worry about the cap in the interim.
Then it's gonna be time to be neck deep in cake -
@CautionaryMary said:
As I've said multiple times on the forums, I typically enjoy my solo-queue on my end.
However, if they were to change the MMR system - I believe there needs to be more nuance when it comes to how someone falls into higher MMR.
Taking body protection hits, safe unhooking, how many gens have you done, how long you are in chase - I mean, we have all of these stats that can easily be documented to help others find proper matches that people on the forums seems to consistently struggle to find.
There is no reason why a Claudette who uses selfish perks and escaping solo should be placed with someone who does gens, takes chases, and actively pushes the game forward.
Going based off of win condition flattens the skill expression down - so, if they're going to fix MMR, the best thing that they can do is broaden the requirements. This goes for people who DC a lot, but people who normally DC so much will be low/mid MMR regardless.
<insert hockey joke here>
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@Agt_Scully said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076297#Comment_4076297
I second the X-Files!! 👽️ The Truth is Out There
Yeah, adding Mulder and Scully was what I was going to say; it would be amazing. But only if they can get the likeness rights for Duchovny and Anderson. I watch so much X-Files still that it annoys my wife lol
Dean and Sam Winchester would also be cool, but I feel like they are often requested already
Both of those IPs would be perfect fits for DbD.
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A pretty ridiculous comparison. You can simply ignore a teabagging surv. You can't ignore being left helpless on the floor. One has zero tangible effect on anything but your ego, the other keeps you from doing anything but crawling and bleeding.
@Xendritch said:
I'm gonna be so for real if tbagging actually gets in a killers head they have the mental fortitude of a wet paper plate. Any experienced killer is just gonna eye roll and move on so I find claims of tbagging being a "strategy" extremely dubious.
Yeah, this. I'll sometimes teabag to try to bait the killer into chasing me to break them out of tunneling a teammate, but that only works on bad killers, tbh. As a killer, I just ignore teabagging.
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@pidgeon said:
I'm assuming they'll make Mikaela Velma for more moola.
It would be the money move, but it doesn't fit character-wise at all. Plus as was mentioned earlier, the Hex Girls would be a much better fit for Sable, Mikaela, etc., provided they go that deep into the Scooby-Doo roster beyond the core crew.
I mean Haddie would be a better fit for Velma in terms of character and appearance (hair, build, lore, etc.) other than skin color, which is what I feel some people's issue with it would really be.
Felix is an obvious choice for Fred not just because of the build/hair, but because he may be the only make surv outside of Ace/Nic I could see rocking an ascot lol. Kate is probably the best fit for Daphne, imo.For Shaggy I would have said Dwight, but it seems like they have given him his skin already. Ace probably. Or Renato.
And all of this reminds me how much I'd like to see an old school diver killer like the one on SD that creeped me out as a kid
