tjt85
tjt85
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4121116#Comment_4121116
I hope for people that isn't the case. Have some hope, I've seen games split the community into legacy vs current-gen. So we may see the PS4, Xbox, Switch, older hardware remain on the existing version but cannot cross-play with current-gen. Unfortunately some titles, even stop updates and new DLCs. I do know of two major online titles that took this route and one decided to allow cross-play but the older hardware didn't get the engine upgrades and new visuals. I wish they were clear about this so people can prepare.
I could see them freeze updates at a certain point for the older platforms and allow players continued access to the content they already "own". But I think that's very, very unlikely. They don't even want to spend money on supporting a small community forum, so I think there's zero chance of them maintaining server access for the older platforms. From the EULA:
"From time to time, BHVR may provide you with updates or modifications to the Game. You understand that certain updates and modifications may be required in order to continue the use of the Game. You agree that BHVR may stop to support previous versions of the Game upon availability of an updated version."
So yeah, they can pull the plug at any time and there's not really anything anyone can do about it.
But they could, at the very least, give us a bit more information about what their plan for the future is. All I want from them is transparency. Considering how much money and time a lot of players on these platforms have put into the game over the years, I don't think that's asking for too much.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4121251#Comment_4121251
Does plot twist help to disappear Infront of the killer?, you can can see on the hud if the survivor used plot twist and if you use it Infront of the killer then they can just pick you up.
skilful chase (and even perks that help with that aren't safe from nerfs, with what has happened to Sprint Burst and Windows of Opportunity recently).
What's skilful about holding W with Sprint burst, it got nerfed as it's the best exhaustion perk with not activation requirement, I think the new version of WoO is actually more skillful in chase as you can try to use the valuting speed well, running from yellow to yellow was not very skillful as well tho.
You'd be surprised how many Killers don't look at their hud. I used to jump out of a window on Haddonfield and plot twist in the bushes and believe it or not, it actually worked sometimes. If nothing else, you'd still be able to waste a few more seconds while the Killer tried to find you on the ground.
I never bought into the activation requirement argument. After all, there are lots of perks on both sides that don't have real activation requirements. Some involve simple actions that you'd be doing anyway (e.g. gen kick perks) and others give you value for losing pressure (Bitter Murmur, NOED, Tinkerer). I don't think any of these perks need a nerf btw and I don't care if they give players value for doing nothing because I don't see DBD as a well balanced competitive game, nor do I think it should be one.
Anyway, I meant that ability in chase is the only Survivor skill that a lot of Killers will respect and I find it odd that we're nerfing perks that help Survivors out with that. These perks might still be useful to those Survivors who are already experienced in chase, but they're not much use now to the players that aren't. These days I've gone full ninja mode and I play with stealth builds instead of Sprint Burst because I don't have much skill in chase.
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I like the concept and I make similar plays with Plot Twist to disappear right under the Killer's nose.
But from what I've learned, Killer players tend to hate perks that help Survivors evade Killers using any method other than escaping with a skilful chase (and even perks that help with that aren't safe from nerfs, with what has happened to Sprint Burst and Windows of Opportunity recently).
It's still a very fun idea though and I would love to see something like that come to the Scout class in 2V8. There's a bit more room and acceptance for wacky ideas that might not be balanced in that mode.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4121116#Comment_4121116
Yeah I'm wondering about that as well. BHVR also has not kept to their promise of optimizing older generation console versions so it's looking likely that they won't be supported. At the same time, with the overhaul we will very very likely be getting much more in depth graphical settings, in which case you might still be able to run it, the game probably just wouldn't look nearly as good as it could on max settings.
I'm not even looking forward to the overhaul for the graphical update though, that's just a nice bonus to me, and I think to many others. DBD is a very dated looking game for sure and I'm glad that's being addressed, but I care much more about how the terrible coding that has plagued the game is being fixed, and how we most likely will be getting a lot of QoL settings (such as the graphics settings I mentioned) with the overhaul. It means less bugs, less limitations, more customization, and hopefully it means more unique killers and possibly faster updates and reworks. Also, if the code is being redone, the god awful net code should be getting redone as well.
I don't need new content with the overhaul, I just want the overhaul to bring a lot of much needed fixes and hopefully lead to fixes in the future as well. The only new content I'd love to see along with it are a bunch of balance changes and the modding suite, although I'm not sure either will happen (at least on launch day).
Yeah, optimisation could really save this game on lower power platforms. Trouble is, as you say, we've not seen much effort on BHVR's part to try to achieve better performance and it might be that the underlying code is limiting any improvements they could made. Right now, I can't even navigate through the menus without significant lag on my Switch 1.
I think even the OG Switch could possibly just about still run the game with the right optimisation, being home to some impossible ports like Doom and Doom Eternal. It also still runs Fortnite pretty well for such old hardware all things considered (but I know these are different types of games and Fortnite has very cartoony graphics in comparison). I still expect them to retire support for Switch 1 in the next few years anyway as Nintendo's player base slowly move over to the Switch 2.
I'm hoping they at least target the Steam Deck for their minimum system requirements. If they do, I'll still have a decent shot at running the game because my graphics card is a 1050 Ti and roughly equivalent in power, although I know it's not quite as simple as that because the Steam Deck has more modern tech within it. I just want to know what their targets are regarding hardware with the new upgrade. I guess we'll have to see, but what I've seen so far doesn't exactly fill me with hope…
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I won't lie, I'm dreading more news on the graphical update because I think it's going to confirm what I already suspect - That the older platforms like Xbox One, PS4, Switch and my potato PC are not going to be able to run the game any more. I'm not even sure there will be a future on any Nintendo platform for the game, since they keep telling us there's no Switch 2 version in the works (which would be my preferred upgrade path). So I could be in for a pretty lengthy break come the update because I'm not looking to upgrade any time soon, as I've always been little bit behind when it comes to console generations. Oh well, at least I'll be able to make a dent in my backlog of other games when it finally does happen.
I'm honestly not that excited for the update unless it also comes with some fundamental upgrades to core game play mechanics. I'd like to see new ways to escape and new abilities for Killers. If all it has to offer us is the same experience of looping around a rock but with improved textures under some fancy modern lighting and weather effects, I'll be disappointed and wondering why they even bothered. DBD's better looking competitors always lose out because they can't offer the same variety, being single license games, so they become stale very quickly (despite offering their own unique gameplay mechanics). Graphics aren't everything. But then again, if DBD could do all 3 by looking good, offering a modern game play experience and maintaining the variety it currently offers, it would be unstoppable.
But yeah, they really should have given us some kind of update by now. Even just to acknowledge that they know we're waiting on one but that they have nothing concrete to share with us yet.
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Could be a potential hint for an upcoming Wednesday chapter (because that's also set in a spooky school). Now that BHVR seems to have a better relationship with Netflix, I could see that being a future Survivor only chapter.
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I think this is my favourite rift for a long time (Since Anguish). I don't usually buy the rift but that Vee skin is definitely tempting me. I like that the designs are good for us stealthy gamers, not too ostentatious or colourful for a change. And it looks like lots of them will be good to pair with other cosmetics. But man, they really love giving the Clown skins, don't they? As funny as it is to make him a dinner lady, I wish he didn't get so many…
I think we get longer than usual to complete this one. Normally I would be a little disappointed about that because it usually means long periods when there's nothing for me to play for. I tend to play a lot less when I've finished the rift or have nothing to unlock (another reason why I think retiring the Tomes is a mistake. Unlocking the tome charms gave me a goal to work towards earlier in my DBD career, but soon those won't be there for future players. I'm still trying to get the last 2 charms of Tome 1 unlocked before they go away for good).
I love the community Kate vampire hunter skin, too. Don't forget that will be in the next rift. They've really done the design justice. I don't play much Kate these days but she was a main of mine for a little while, so I might play a few games as her once I get this one unlocked.
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I'm curious to know how many matches we need to play before we should expect to find our level? 10? 20? 100?
I've only played 7 Killer games so far, which I'm sure is not nearly enough, but I can at least give some initial impressions as a more occasional player.
I played 4 Trials with my main Legion (I won 1 but the first 3 were a 3-4 out), 1 Chucky (4 out), 1 Billy (3 out) and finally 1 Trapper match (a pretty easy 4K on RPD). None of my opponents were "baby" survivors. I'd describe them as experienced but pretty average, yet still efficient enough to get the gens done before I was able to get 2 or 3 hooks. Admittedly, I'm still shaking off the rust of a month of not playing any Killer games, but I would have expected much easier Trials for at least a little while until I climbed back up to where I was. Instead, I actually felt like despite there being a "reset", most of my matches were a lot harder than before. It didn't feel like a reset at all to me.
My concern is that including emblems back into the match-making might make for tougher games if you still score quite well. A lot of people pointed out that this might happen. With some Killers (like Legion), you can still do quite well with your emblems even when you don't get any kills:
On the other hand, an Oni that Slugs everyone in the first 5 minutes and wins quickly might not score as highly. Kills kind of do equal skills in some respects and I think (for Killer at least), Kills should be weighted more importantly to the ranking system than your emblem scores.
Anyway, my initial impressions so far are that my Survivor games have been a slightly better experience but broadly the same (with more active teammates making the biggest difference). While my Killer games on the other hand seem much more difficult. The system currently rates me as better at the role than I clearly am. I hope to play more matches over the weekend to see if my loses put me into more suitable lobbies.
As for Survivor, I currently have an escape rate above 50% so the system is clearly still trying to place me (It should not be this high. Previously it was 35%, which is where I'd also expect it to settle under the new system. I didn't suddenly become good at the game).
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I've said many times before that two competent Killers will roll over almost any 2V8 lobby (this is especially true if at least one Killer has a mobility power). That was my typical experience whenever I played 2V8 Killer, anyway. Anytime I would play Survivor in the evening when most of the KWFs were playing, it was an absolute bloodbath for the Survivor side. SBMM in 2V8 is impossible to implement when the queues are already hitting 50 minutes at times.
I don't think there is any way to seriously balance the mode, not should there be, because that was never the point in the first place. For the most part, both sides have ridiculously overpowered toys to play with. I still think they even could put Legion back in (with a few small changes) and the vast majority of 2V8 enjoyers wouldn't care one bit. They're all too busy enjoying the casual chaos to go whinging about this or that thing on social media like the more serious elements of the player base are prone to do. It's totally fine for there to be no balance and no match-making in this mode because I don't believe anybody who enjoys 2V8 cares about seeing either of these things "improved".
For what it's worth, my escape rate was a little lower than usual this time at around 35% (probably because I spent so many trials trying to get those invocation challenges done). But really not that different to previous 2V8s. For all the buffs the Survivor side has supposedly had, nothing they've done so far has made a blind bit of difference to my overall escape rate. For a mode with a reputation for being the most unbalanced, it has ironically given me my most balanced Killer/Survivor stats so far with a perfect 60/40 split. So from my point of view, it's a pretty good job so far despite (or maybe because of) all the wackiness.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120806#Comment_4120806
I think the 'feel' reason for scouts having the key is to use the aura reading property to see the other survivors (which makes sense for a scout having perception). But in gameplay it is certainly far better and more interesting to open chests.
Of all the items I think the map would have been the best one to give Scouts, tbh (even if I don't like them). Obviously fits their theme. Plus, being able to show gen locations to teammates would be pretty useful near end game when gen progress often seems to slow quite a bit.
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@cogsturning said:
I personally loved the item addition. It's what made me play more survivor this time around. Theoretically it should reduce all the time wasted opening chests. Unfortunately they dropped the stupid salts at the same time, so that messed up that possibility. I also hid them from my team. People would chase me around the map when I had them so I just sat on gens with them until they gave up. They were such a horrible menace. I agree the effect should be global. I was shocked when it turned out not to be.
As for team lineup, I like there to be a mix, and I think Guide and Scout are both under appreciated. I played almost all Scout this time and fell in love with the role. I had several 8 stacks where we did 4 Guides and 4 Scouts and that was both hilarious and highly effective. Four Medic doubling up and 2 Escapists was also great. Much like 1v4, the fun is in the SWFing.
I like the fact that we start with an item now too, even if my own favoured class has an item I only use to find something more useful or fun as quickly as possible. I feel like BHVR gave the Scouts keys because they saw in their stats how many chests I used to waste time opening in all the previous 2V8s (surely Escapists should be the ones with a key and Scouts should be given a Fog Vial?). I don't know why, but it was always the Scouts that were raiding chests in 2V8. Maybe because the other classes have abilities that do what items do and the Scouts don't.
Anyway, I'm still opening a lot of chests and ignoring all those maps/toolboxes/keys and salts, but at least I'm not spending half the game doing it anymore.
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To be honest I kinda liked the chaotic, wild west match-making of the first week of MMR reset. But then we went straight into 2V8, so I've not touched 1V4 since. Anyway, I think it made the games feel a bit closer to event match-making to me. That said, I might be in a minority for preferring it that way and I can see such a system being a frustration to the more competitive players out there. I'd personally take no match-making at all over a system that you guys say is in place but barely seems to work at all.
Now that 2V8 is over, I'll guess I'll have to play some games over the next week or so to see what feels different.
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@Gajemt said:
Hey, if anyone interested you can access the archive version of the forum here:
https://forums.deadbyqueue.com/dead-by-daylight/discussions
I did ended up just making it a site, I will still publish the raw archived data after October (No point before the forum actually goes down, because I will be updating the archived data). I am adhering to the same URL structure, so after the forum goes down you can just change bhvr.com to deadbyqueue.com in the link and you will be able to access the post.
Awesome work! Thank you for doing this. I think it's even better as a website, that way it will be much easier for people to access and browse.
I can live with BHVR not wanting to maintain an active forum in the future. Times have changed and the player base is having their discussions elsewhere. But what didn't sit well with me was the decision not to preserve it as a read only archive. To wipe out nearly a decade of discussions like that just felt so disrespectful to everyone who spent the time to share their thoughts here.
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I agree. It's a niche perk that probably doesn't get a lot of use, but to the people that do run it, we appreciate what it currently does pretty well (which is detect stealth). The aura read could be useful to see if the Killer is coming in your direction or not, but at the big cost of a pretty lengthy 60 second cooldown. Since its niche is as a counter to stealth Killers / perks, having it available for use less often seems more like a nerf than a buff to me.
Besides, we already have a similar perk to show the Killer's aura when they come within range with Dark Sense. Players will just run that instead for the extra info it will soon give on pallets and windows. And Premonition will still be a low pick rate perk because it's now competing with a better one.
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Post some Sable if you're able!
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I think it's still too early to tell. I don't think they could have launched the new MMR system at a worse time. We had a new chapter with a niche but still very strong Killer and the Sprint Burst nerf, followed up by nearly a month of 2V8, where most of the more casually inclined Survivors are playing right now (myself included). And pretty soon we're going to have a huge nerf to yet another popular Survivor perk with the gutting of Windows of Opportunity.
So I think it will take at least a couple of months to get to the point where most of us will have played enough regular 1V4 Trials to finally find our proper placing in the new system.
That said, in my very limited experience of the new MMR before 2V8 returned, I'd say my Survivor games are slightly better than they were. For the first 10 or so games it was absolute chaos, but then my games started to feel much more like they used to but with more active and helpful teammates than before. At the end of the day, that's all I really want from my teammates. I still don't think it works all that well (and it never will so long as queue times are the biggest priority), but I'd say it's a slight improvement. I've yet to play any Killer games under the new system, so I can't comment on that.
Funny thing is, the last time they messed around with MMR, all the big streamers were complaining that their games had become way too difficult, but this time around a lot of them are saying now their games are too easy. BHVR just can't win. What is it that the player base wants? More varied Trials where you have the freedom to run goofy off meta builds and still be in with a chance of winning, or a stricter match-making system that gives players a more consistent challenge? We don't seem to be able to decide.
Short of introducing a ranked mode with stricter match-making, I don't think it's possible to satisfy both the pros that play this game for a living (and advertise the game for BHVR) and the casual gamers who make up the majority of the player base.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120338#Comment_4120338
And funnily enough, people are still getting banned, even if it is only a around a month before shutdown. One would think they wouldn't even bother doing so.
So even the spike of activity caused by the announcement still comes with risk for anyone who engages with it.
It's genuinely hilarious to me. I guess the quicker they can ban everyone, the quicker they can get the forums deleted.
I want to stick around now, just to see who makes it to the very end, like I'm watching a low stakes season of Squid Game.
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I don't use Discord, but I think they plan to set up something like this for us over there:
From what I gather, it looks to function a bit like a traditional forum only much worse. Like it will be our own little quarantined zone away from all the usual noisy chatter. I don't know. I'll probably stop by out of curiosity (more than anything else), but I'm pretty much done when it comes to participating in any future discussions after this place is gone. I honestly don't see many of the currently active forum refugees migrating over to Discord, either.
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@Gajemt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120433#Comment_4120433
Hey, thanks, but I am pretty much done already, there is a small (10%) amount of comments that I am still downloading. The discussions have been done since yesterday and just finished downloading all attachment / media (140 GB) that was uploaded directly to the forum.
To avoid confusion I will only upload it online (I will post about it on the official reddit and on www.deadbyqueue.com ) and make it a torrent when the forum is fully down, because I will keep updating the archive with the future comments and discussions from now til the end of October when the site goes dark.
The only thing that will be missing are the posts and comments from the past PTB feedback and PTB bug reporting categories, because those are not accessible anymore sadly (Currently if you are logged in you can access the 10.2.0 PTB Feedback category, if you are logged out you can access the 10.2.0 PTB Fedback, 9.2.0 PTB Bug Reproting and 8.3.0 Bug PTB Reporting categories). After the shutdown I will backfill whatever PTB posts and comments I can get from archive.org, but the majority will be missing, because they can't be accessed for normal users.
Edit: Til I was typing the comments were also finished.
Oh good! I'm so glad you're stepping up when BHVR have made it very clear they'd rather just chuck it all down the memory hole.
I have a spreadsheet where I've been saving the links to all the stuff that I've uploaded to the Wayback Machine so far. Just by typing keywords into the forum search bar and seeing what comes back. I know it's an inefficient, scattershot approach and would be a tiny drop in the ocean in terms of all the discussions that we've had over the years, but so far I've uploaded things like memorial tributes, representative examples of frequent talking points, the big events that got the community talking, discussions including community managers etc. Maybe I'm only really saving the things that I personally find interesting or worthy, but I felt that was better than absolutely nothing (though to be fair, the world probably doesn't need 100+ nearly identical discussions about camping/tunnelling/slugging to be saved). It was more about trying to preserve the essence of the forums (the good, the bad and the ugly) so that any curious future DBD players could see what it was like.
Anyway, I'll keep doing what I'm doing and I'll upload the spreadsheet to the Internet Archive when the forums are finally gone. Then I'll share the link to it over on the unofficial Fog-Dwellers forum.
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I think I'll miss the phantom down voter most of all.
That one person who would come by every now and then to give everyone in a thread a down vote and then leave, regardless of what was said. It tickles me to no end to think someone would take time out of their day just for that.
I hope you're doing well out there, friend o7.
For real though, anyone who ever stopped by here to write something interesting, insightful, challenging, nuanced or funny - You're my favourite.
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The big ones for me are:
Slugging for the 4K to deny hatch spawning. You already won. Unless you're doing an adept just… Why? It's really not that serious.
Getting unhooked in the Killer's face (I better be about to go to second stage).
If you're gonna 99 the gate, you better be stood by it and be ready to open.
Chain blinding the Killer being a thing. Yes, Ace/Adam/Ada I get it. You're very good at playing Survivor and there's skill expression in being able to do so and all that, but it feels so bad when you're not a headphone gamer. Please just let me see where I'm going so I can play the damn game.
That one person who follows you around all game to trip all your traps when you play Trapper. Please, stop. No more. Playing Trapper is already hard enough.
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That would be crazy strong on an upstairs window with Balanced Landing. It's one of those mechanics that I think could be so busted, there might not be a way to make a balanced perk out of it (a bit like the Killer power to teleport Survivors to hooks).
But maybe it could be something like after fully repairing a generator, the next time you fast vault a window you block it for 2 seconds (or whatever), after which the perk deactivates. I dunno… Might be a fun but limited use meme perk?
I think Apocalyptic Ingenuity will be kinda decent now, with a chest looter build. It's still very much a meme perk but it'll have a place in at least one of my silly builds. So there's space in the game for things like that, I think.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120246#Comment_4120246
I get what you mean entirely, but I don't agree with their reasoning if that were the case. Think about it like this:
You buy a fishing rod, and it will have minor upkeep between bait/lures/line/hooks/etc. In return, the amount of return on investment you get is incomparible by comparison. It may require things like patience or commitment, but the theoretical return on investment is near limitless. Your material cost is a distant second to the pool of opportunity you have opened yourself up to.
This platform has been invaluable to them over the years in a variety of ways. The posters weren't paid for their insights, the theory crafters and design contributiors providing a vast pool of invaluable information that augmented concepts like playtesting without needing to spend a dime, hell, with people literally paying to do it. Nobody provided these things expecting any form of compensation, they were not on any payroll, they were simply fish in the sea. All they wanted was a hook with the bait of a better game on the line, and they gladly provided value in response.
For every penny saved by cutting out what is required to run a platform like this forum, the amount of free amateur labor in many facets, both creative and technical, created a massive RoI. That return diminished because of how things have been handled, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who considered grace to the ground level following the demands of those higher up and more detatched. At this point, even making an announcement like this is a clear sign that it's essentially irreversable: Every decision in this vein has done nothing but scare away more and more fish, reducing the potential gain of the investment.
If they wanted to roll something like this back, it would cost more than whatever they hope to gain by cutting such a cost. They've already told the community we're not wanted for any more than statistics to present to shareholders.
Totally agree. I can't say it any better than that, especially the part about the free labour.
I know the common criticism is that BHVR don't listen to us here but that just isn't true (obviously, they don't listen to everything we say, but they do listen more than they are often given credit for). In the relatively short time that I've been playing, I've seen many of the suggestions people have made here in this very forum put into the game to make it better for everyone.
This is also the only place that a regular, everyday DBD player without a platform can have a shot at actually being heard by the developers. I get the drive to "modernise", but the signal to noise ratio on all their other community platforms is not good. This is such a short-sighted move from them.
I guess the expansion of the content creator program is also another way they're looking at to reach out to the opinions of the wider community, but that's still going to be feedback filtered through one single person. There isn't anything that can replace a dedicated forum like this. Forums have been such a treasure trove of information in my life. Away from here, I've often found posts from 10-15 years ago that have helped me solve problems and repair things and none of that information has been behind a login wall. I know I'll sound dramatic saying so but this act is like setting fire to a library to me.
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It's been brutal for me so far. I don't bother with the Killer side of the mode anymore since my main got binned, but my escape rate is currently sitting at 25% (the lowest it's ever been for me).
I dread playing 2V8 again but I've got to roll up my sleeves and get back into it if I want to unlock those Alien charms. Wish me luck…
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Salt in the wound. More I hear and think about this forum, the angrier I get. It's such a huge ######### you to the community on here.
Some beancounter decides that the pitiful amount of money spent to keep the forum running can be snipped from the budget to save a few pennies. Cutting off the best and most valid portal for well formatted feedback. The forums (despite being somewhat whittled down by nitpicky overenthusiastic ban usage) are full of dedicated and passionate players most of whom, in their own way, are trying to supply feedback and suggestions to improve the game that they love.
And the alternatives? Screaming into the void on discord, watching whatever idea you've just posted get buried under 100 other messages of meaningless drivel in seconds. Or reddit a well documented cesspool of the worst the internet has to offer.
Way for bhvr to show the community how little they care about our opinions. I won't be spending a damn penny on auric cells from now on. And would encourage other players to do the same, probably a drop in the water as far as bhvrs profits are concerned. But it wouldn't take many players doing that to mean bhvr loses more money in sales than they save by killing our forum. And that would provide me with a smidgen of comfort.
@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
Honestly - the forums likely cost AT MOST $15 a month just to keep up. I have noticed that many of the mods here are also mods in the discord, reddit, etc - so its not like BHVR is having to hire anyone exclusively to monitor these forums.
It's not the hosting of the forums but the community managers to run it that is the cost of this place. Hosting the forums probably costs them peanuts. I think the move to these big tech platforms probably has a lot to do with the future because these platforms will be almost completely auto-moderated by AI in the not very distant future and they won't need to hire as many mods or community managers.
The forums barely function as they are, so they're never going to get "upgraded" with big tech AI moderation. You need real people to run this place. But who needs people when big tech has decided the future of the web belongs to the machines?
I remember them putting out a request for mods to join up not that long ago. I'd offer to volunteer if I felt it might save this place, even though I don't have a spotless record and I know I'd really hate being one. There was one forum member who put in an application to be a mod and they promptly got banned for something shortly afterwards. 🤣
I recently chose not to spent another penny on this game as well. Even before all this, so many of the recent changes stopped me wanting to play and there's also the worry that I won't even be able to pretty soon with the upcoming graphical update. I don't feel like supporting BHVR at the moment.
As for the forums not being archived, I think that's a huge loss to the community. And if I do happen to join up to one of their future official community platforms, I won't be posting nearly as much as I have done in the past, knowing how little our contributions on the forum mean to BHVR.
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Good work so far! I was actually able to use the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine to preserve some threads I wanted to keep for posterity (I'm on desktop PC). Somebody has already saved the official announcement of the closure of the forums over there:
Wayback Machine link to forums closure announcement
It only saved the first page, though. So multiple pages will have to be saved individually if anyone wants to back up the entire discussion. I think it would be very ironic and funny if that was all that we had left preserved of the forums on the web when they're finally gone.
I've also saved a couple of lore build threads that I posted in and wanted to bookmark for myself (because I'm forgetful and I might want to be reminded of them some day). I like making builds a lot in this game:
I would like to hear your Lore-based Builds (Survivor OR Killer)
Anyone have some fun Legion builds?
^As you see, some images didn't properly save, so if there are lots of large images on the page they sadly won't all be saved. Only one snapshot of a page can be made per hour.
You can also use urlclean.com to clean the URL slugs of anything unnecessary in the address to make for a better archived page. And this is the link you need to save a page to the wayback machine:
Anyone can do this, but it is very time consuming and it would obviously be an impossibly huge undertaking to preserve absolutely everything. And it will only be preserved for as long as the Internet Archive still exists. But still better than nothing, I guess?
Anyway, if you guys have any sentimental discussion threads that you want to save for future generations of DBD players to read, this is how you can do it.
It's so annoying that we're going to be losing so much social history of the game in this way, but there's not much that can be done about it tbh. At times like this I'm reminded of how ephemeral the web really is. Nothing lasts forever, not even the legendary original Space Jam website made it past 2021.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120068#Comment_4120068
it felt like a lot of the moderation was vibes based which makes it hard for consistency in regulation. you gotta hope you get the "right" mod. I got hit for literally just saying the new Zanshin was "lazy and half baked". I'm sorry but that kind of moderation guarantees there will be no longer term community. Shame because things seemed less stifling lately, as new additions like Balrog were pretty chill.
They probably don't want to have to play whack-a-mole across every community platform that they run, which I guess is fair enough. I bet the moderation team have their hands full over on Discord, even though I think we're probably the least unruly bunch.
Getting a warning or a ban seemed like bad luck most of the time, anyway. I probably deserved a couple more warnings than the one that I got.
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Given that the original announcement has 106 down votes so far, I think they already know how most of us feel about the forums closing. But have my up vote, anyway ☝️
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120014#Comment_4120014
Ill admit after myers/freddy/ghostface/leatherface/pig all not having much for voiceacting, chuck/tiffany having their original voice actors to come and do all the lines was mind blowing and brought so much more life to the characters in the game 👌
I've also played a decent amount of legion being a fan of the silent hill Lost Mascot suits. I just tend to avoid playing too much of the killers that players tend to openly dislike, otherwise I would be playing a ton of Rize being shes my favorite character from tokyo ghoul lol
Honestly, I don't worry too much about being hated for my choice of Killer. There's almost always going to be somebody in your lobby that isn't a fan whoever you choose to play. And anyway, I did ready up to play the bad guy after all!
So go play some Rize games. As long as you're not going out of your way to give anyone a bad time, I think it's all good.
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@Ryuhi said:
For any of the old heads who see this, regardless of how we may have gotten along over the years, your dedication is appreciated. If not by BHVR, than it should be by each other. Regardless of blatant or unintentional biases, there have been a multitude of perspectives that provided a wide range of insights, criticisms, over/under sights, and legitimately valuable feedback. Everyone knows that individual communities get swarmed with biases to the point of becoming echo chambers, but having a forum that worked in the most literal interpretation of the word for so long is something that this game sorely needed and benefited from.
For anyone who put more thought into their perspectives than emotion, more intention than reaction, more care than frustration, regardless of right or wrong, your input to the forums was a positive contribution. When you think about the fact that this post doesn't necessary address the people who wear their insights on their sleeves, keep in mind that will be the future of feedback for the game going forward. For all the "X platform is Y biased," that will be their only avenues of feedback going forward. Whether that means they'll be able to better disseminate feedback or get lost in a contradictory sea of warring factions, only time will tell. But the names that have been here for the majority of the game's lifespan, genuinely wanting the game to be a better experience despite personal gain, you're all appreciated. If not by the developers, than by the people who shared the same goal. If I can't speak for everyone in that camp, I can at least speak for myself.
Thanks for the discussion, and the exchange of ideas.
I second all of this. I don't look forward to the game being balanced by the loudest voices on all of those other platforms, where engagement farming seems to be the primary motivation for most of the users over there. We all have our biases, but the forums still felt like the best place to come for a reasoned, nuanced debate and the place to read the most considered takes on the game. That kind of discussion just doesn't exist elsewhere on the web. Discord is a gated community and (from what this old timer understands) more like an ephemeral chat room than a public discussion forum and reddit is just 90% memes and videos, with the other 10% being players gloating/commiserating over whatever it was BHVR nerfed this week. Neither platform will be a good substitute for what the forums currently offer. I really hope they reconsider but the decision is probably final 😔
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As my only P100, Legion is obviously up there. The most fun I ever had playing DBD was the handful of trials I got to play as 2V8 Legion, especially in their first iteration. Send a few down votes my way for old times sake for saying so, but they were the ultimate adrenaline rush in that mode and nothing else really comes close. I'll never forgive BHVR for removing them.
Other than Legion, I've got soft spots for Dwight (who was my first main), pre-rework Myers (RIP) and of course Meg, who has been my main for nearly half the total hours that I've put into playing this game.
Other honorable mentions: Chucky/Tiffany (for favourite voice acting), Feng (for favourite cosmetic with her bunny hoodie), Xeno (favourite to verse because I love the Alien films and enjoy the turret mechanic), Trickster (favourite overall sound design) and Clown (for favourite horror design. He's truly disgusting and makes my skin crawl).
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My sentiments exactly. I too have enjoyed discussing the game and reading everyone's opinions over the past 3 years that I've been here - even the ones that I vehemently disagreed with.
It was just nice to have somewhere to come and talk about this silly little horror game that had become an obsession to me. You guys don't know me from Adam and I'm just a name on a screen, but I've still felt a kind of weird kinship with everyone here over our shared love of the game. It doesn't matter that it's all coming to an end, not really. It's just a forum for a video game at the end of the day and life will go on.
But visiting the fog will feel just a little bit lonelier in the future knowing I won't have somewhere to come and shoot the breeze, share stories of the fog or discuss the latest happenings in the Entity's realm. I feel ridiculous getting a bit sentimental over this, but here we are…
To all you UK & Europe servants of the Entity, perhaps I'll see some of you in the fog one day. To everyone else, I hope you have many 5 gen chases and 4Ks ahead of you 🖖
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Damn, BHVR are really putting in the hard yards to make the 10th anniversary year one for me to forget!
But I can't say I didn't see this coming. Between bringing the ban hammer down on half of the most active forum members and adding the down vote button so that any discussions voicing unpopular opinions sink like a lead balloon, is it really any wonder why nobody bothers coming here these days?
Taking the forums out back less than a month on from the big 10th anniversary love-in is certainly… A choice. Just in time for Halloween as well, which is basically like Christmas day to horror fans. Honestly, I can't think of a more BHVR way for them to have Killed off the forums.
Not a great look, is it? It doesn't show much in the way of appreciation for some of your most passionate players.
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Hell. No.
The Steam forums are almost as dead as this place and they're a shadow of the official forums at the best of times. As for Discord, I'm sure the kids love it but I joined up some time last year for a giveaway and the experience made me feel about a 1000 years old.
https://youtu.be/NChPewIs0js?si=2qWUpLsNhyx-svAt^Genuine footage of me ageing in real time on the DBD Discord server.
I did try to join reddit, but there's no way I was gonna wait for my account to be 3 months old before I would even be allowed to post in the subreddit. Vestiges of the old web like this forum are where I belong and nowhere else. I just want the Internet to die at this point. I honestly can't wait for it to be overrun by AI bots chatting to each other for eternity.
I might try to join the Discord again if I remember to follow the link, but once this place is gone, the only place you'll probably find me is the Fog✌️
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@Dkiddeh said:
How great it would be if a Dev could notify us switch 2 (and switch 1) users, if the game will remain playable for the forseeable future.. or if they are planning to abandon the switch category all together -.- But they rather keep people in the dark for over a year.. Sure, they mentioned it's not in the planning, to make a switch 2 friendly update, but knowing if the game will be playable alltogether would be great, before people spend money for just 4 months worth for example.. Very Very bad, by the Dev's end of this game.
After the Anniversary love-in stream, BHVR said there would be a follow up community stream with more details on the future of the game but so far we've had nothing. If the game won't be supported on older hardware in the near future, the right thing to do would be to let players know that well in advance. Doing so would obviously have a knock on impact on revenues as players stop spending on a game they won't be able to play soon, but it would still be the right thing to do. DBD is currently one of the most undemanding multiplayer games out there able to run on Switch 1 and almost any potato PC. I have it running just fine on a 2013 office PC I put together with salvaged parts and a 2017 workstation graphics card. I doubt that will still be true when the big update comes along in 2027.
When Star Wars: Hunters got the chop, I uninstalled the game straight away because I didn't see the point in investing my time in a soon to be dead game. Obviously, it's a little different with DBD as it will continue on and players will at least keep some of their old content on a new platform (though anything bought in Nintendo's eShop doesn't transfer over, unfortunately). But still, there are some very dedicated Switch gamers with thousands of hours in this game and they all deserve to know what the future holds for them.
Maybe they could at least let us play a version of the game that's been put into maintenance mode, like how Illfonic have done with Ghostbusters: Spirits Unleashed. But I'm not sure how that could be done with cross-progression being a thing now.
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Yeah, Nintendo stopped making 3DS consoles in 2020 but they still supported the system with online features and an eShop for another 3-4 years after that. Switch 1 support from Nintendo isn't going anywhere for a while just yet.
The real question is whether or not the game has a future on Nintendo platforms at all beyond the upcoming graphical upgrade next year. I can't imagine they'd want to walk away from an installed player base of millions but then again BHVR also say they're not making a Switch 2 version, so who knows? We've been left in the dark. The Switch 2 has the power to run some impressive titles, but I do feel like Switch 1 support will probably be dropped within a year (not a problem for you if you already own a Switch 2).
I think you would still get some enjoyment out of the game if you bought it on sale and only got a year or so of play out of the game. But I've personally decided against spending any more money until I'm sure I'll still be able to play DBD in the long term past 2027.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118630#Comment_4118630
I believe that even if the killer is Undetectable, you will still receive the notification, you just won't get aura reading. It's almost better info that way, as you can deduce that they are Undetectable nearby and possibly coming at you. I do believe that the cooldown could afford to be much lower though.
I maybe didn't explain it well before but yeah, that's what I was getting at. It would have pretty much the same functionality as the current version against stealth Killers, except now with double the cooldown time (so that's a nerf, imo).
I get the audio cue many times in a trial. Most of the time it's a false alert and the Killer isn't actually coming my way at all, so it kind of needs to have a shortish cooldown (or slightly shorter range) or else it won't be able to warn me when they actually do come my way.
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Premonition is a perk I've been using a fair amount recently and I was quite excited to read about the buff. But the 60 second cooldown does seem a bit long for how often it currently triggers in a trial, which risks making it less useful than the current version (even with the extra aura reading) because it may be in cooldown for when you really need it. And if it doesn't reveal the aura of undetectable Killers (I assume it doesn't), it's actually a nerf to the perk because it will now trigger less often.
So I'm not sure how I feel about the "improved" version. I would prefer it to stay as it was or for the cooldown to be 45 seconds (which seems like a fair compromise, as aura reading is a more powerful effect against most of the Killer roster).
Or if we could keep the 30 second cooldown for the audio cue and have the secondary aura read effect remain at 60 seconds, that would be fine too (perhaps the aura element could be token based so that players know which part of the perk is active. That said, maybe that would complicate what's meant to be a simple perk with a simple effect too much).
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I used this perk a lot in my early days to crawl my way out of the deepest depths of SoloQ hell (this was before I came to the conclusion that the MMR system does next to nothing, anyway). I haven't used it for a very long time now, but it finished with a 50% escape rate for me, so I can see why it's getting some changes.
But you are right, this perk will not be worth running after the nerfs unless you are playing with friends and you make the end game often. I don't know why we're reworking a perk that was mostly beneficial to SoloQ players to buff SWF instead, when SWF is the source of a lot of the balance issues in DBD. But then I don't understand a lot of the choices that BHVR are making at the moment.
I get that they want to encourage teamwork and move away from SoloQ players playing mostly for themselves, but I've said this before and I'll say it again, you don't need any perks in order to play selfishly. And until it feels more rewarding to play for the team, I don't see "selfish" players changing the way they play all that much.
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@Massquwatt said:
Looking over the arguments being made here and I don't know about you guys but if the nerfing of WoO means that the looping ability of survivor players goes down collectively because of it…I think it's time we look at other ways at trying to improve the looping skill of players rather than letting everyone's skill be dictated by a singular perk. cough improved tutorials cough.
I think if BHVR consider looping to be a fundamental Survivor skill, then they absolutely will have to put the resources towards making a proper in-depth looping tutorial soon. I personally don't see looping that way, it's more an intermediate to advanced Survivor skill to me. And as a former Sprint Burst away and hope for the best type Survivor (now a stay under the radar and evade the Killer type Survivor), I think there are still ways to play the role that don't involve being able to loop effectively. I've wasted a ton of Killer time by sending them to investigate my pebbles or by walking away from a gen after an early warning from Premonition. It's just that these play styles are much less effective at "high MMR" where Killers are more likely to be running aura spam builds and targeting the weak links for an early 3V1.
Any perk build can be considered a crutch, I guess, if it helps you to win games you wouldn't have won otherwise (in which case, almost every decent perk in the game is a crutch perk). But then if we're nerfing things because we're worried players are reaching a match-making rank they don't belong in by hitting strong perks like WoO, why are we doing all this after we've just had a rank reset? Surely you would nerf these "crutch" perks before pulling the trigger on resetting everyone's MMR, so we can all reach our proper level? That makes no sense to me.
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I hate to see another popular and decent Survivor perk gutted so soon after SB and Vigil (even if I didn't actually use this one for being so immersion breaking). It's especially annoying to see some auto pilot aura Killer perks get buffs in the very same patch but whatever… That's just another classic BHVR decision for you.
But I don't hear many people talking about the Dark Sense buffs. They're giving it a mini WoO effect, but this time as a totally free general perk! It'll still have the problem of being accidentally triggered before you really need it, but will still be a pretty good beginner alternative to the current WoO, imo.
I'm nearly 2000 hours deep in the weeds of this game but I'll probably be using some of the reworked "beginner" focused perks myself to finally learn the game. Because with these perks I can actually learn by playing and not by watching some boring YouTube tutorial and hoping some of it stay in the memory. I think that's kind of huge.
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I was confused by this as well. What is the difference and why does it matter?
All I know is, it's not going to make any difference to me if "Surrender" or "Abandon" pops up in the corner of my screen. I'm still getting out of there if the game is obviously lost or I'm not having a good time. So I'm not sure why the distinction between the two situations really matters. In a situation like that, I just want to be in my next game as quickly as possible.
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For me it's mainly a lack of variety that's a core problem. But it's kind of a catch 22 situation as well. A lack of variety exacerbates the problem of putting in Killers that are not universally loved (like Legion), but then also having to play it safe and drip feed new Killers that would be acceptable to a majority means variety never really improves and so the mode quickly begins to feel stale. I've personally had at least one Killer in the mode that I don't enjoy facing since iteration 2 (The Spirit) and 3 (Wesker) and it does suck a bit having much increased odds of facing a Killer you don't like more often than you normally would in 1V4. I guarantee whatever Killer BHVR add to 2V8 next, they will be hated by at least some of the players and their addition will make less players want to queue up for Survivor.
That said, I think the vast majority of players still playing 2V8 are newer players who aren't jaded by the experience of playing against 5 shadow Weskers in a row. So this might not really be a problem for mode's popularity.
On a personal note, I've had less desire to play since they took my main away from the mode (Killer is where the real fun is to be had in 2V8).
@Madjura said:
They are doing it again. There's a quest to use 10 tonics. Survivors you unhook don't let you heal them and instead run off in an attempt to find a heal tonic so they can progress the FOMO battlepass. Why would you be interested in playing a game mode where your teammates are actively rewarded by the developers to not help your team at all?
^Also, This! I want those Alien charms, but I'm not willing to grind out 10-20 Survivor trials just to complete a tedious fetch quest. I haven't played since the last quest involving Invoking Salts made me walk away from the game and I'm not feeling encouraged to go back to suffer through more of the same. I want to play the mode because I feel like playing it, not because I feel I have to to unlock a FOMO reward.
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I don't mind the mechanic itself, though I probably wouldn't usually bother with it.
But what really gets my goat is BHVR tying it to completing a stupidly long fetch quest that you need to finish to unlock the fomo rewards. I've just spent an hour playing against the sweatiest KWFs imaginable failing to get more than one of those stupid salt circles placed down. I've spent nearly entire trials opening 6-10 chests and not found a single Invoking Salt. It doesn't help that some games I'm spawning next to the killer and have no time to go looking for chests, only to be rescued and find myself immediately in chase again because Killers have learned the cage spawn locations.
I've never been so frustrated playing this game and if there are any more quests involving these stupid things, I'm going to forget about unlocking those charms because it's just not worth my sanity (being an Alien fan, I was really looking forward to this 2V8 too).
It's been a miserable experience altogether so far.
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For me, it would be Pig, Knight and Dredge. Having another Killer able to chase you off Jigsaw boxes would get old fast. I personally like Neme's zombies, but most players don't enjoyed being chased by NPCs and the Knight's guards would just be that but even more annoying. Dredge's nightfall would charge too fast and turn a trial into Lights Out but with an extra Killer on the map (and most players hated Lights Out).
All that said, it's really not that serious. And I'm all for chaos, so I would add pretty much any Killer that could be made to function. I disagree with gate keeping the mode to only a very limited set of survivor approved Killers. It was the worst decision BHVR made for 2V8, imo. They've basically killed its potential in the long term to be a permanent game mode someday.
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I think BHVR are just adding licensed Killers or "safe" original Killers that the Survivor player base at least tolerates going up against. They don't want a repeat of the Legion incident.
Outside of a few remaining Killers (and maybe some future Killers not yet in the game), I think we've seen every Killer they could reasonably add without getting push back from the section of the player base that likes to complain about every little thing.
If you look at the pattern so far, licensed killers (or Killers with licensed skins that they can theme an event around) have more chance than unlicensed ones, because they make BHVR and their partners more money. So we'll probably see Stranger Things and D&D at some point, I would think. Maybe Jason and Springtrap, too. Unknown will probably be added as well. Not sure if Artist is popular enough but I think there's a chance. But I don't see any others they could add without complaints.
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They could try adding MMR to 1V4, too. If it barely works in the regular queue, I don't see why anyone should expect it to work for a mode that needs twice as many players. What you're asking for just isn't possible.
2V8 is basically the SoloQ experience on steroids. You have to go into it focusing on your own fun and just expecting to die in every game. You've got to embrace the chaos and leave your competitive side at the door. I've played about 10 games so far and only got 2 hatch escapes and 1 gate escape. I don't care what anyone says, it's not a Survivor-sided mode in my experience (maybe on paper, but definitely not in practice).
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If not today, then I think that's probably right. We usually get our update after the second hotfix patch drops, after which we can join back in with the rest of the player base.
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Killers won't suddenly be playing more Trapper grade characters now that SB has been nuked, just like Survivors won't be running crappy perks Cut Loose or Visionary. Players that want to win will always gravitate to the strongest stuff in the game. Now that SB is in the gutter, that's probably Lithe or Balanced Landing.
All the SB nerf did imo, was to make the perk substantially worse for most Survivors for no benefit to Killer at all. Most M1 Killers are still gonna be stuck in low MMR where their baby Meg will use SB to run into a dead zone and die immediately, anyway.
Oh well, at least we've still got on demand old school SB in 2V8. I'll be playing less Scout and more Escapist this time around just to get that old SB experience again.
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Most of the ones I really hated got changes (Franklin's, Knock Out and Sloppy Butcher), so there aren't really many left in isolation that I hate anymore. Just the ones that are a middle finger to SoloQ like Hex: The Third Seal and No Quarter. I guess the ones that buff SWF would be annoying too if I ever saw them in my Killer games (things like We're Gonna Live Forever, Background Player and Shoulder The Burden), but I don't really.
I don't usually see any of these perks in most of my games, so I can't say if they desperately need changes.
I also kinda hate Hex perks in general, just because of their inconsistency and the play styles and perk combos that revolve around defending them. And also because I feel like I have the worst luck with them since they tend to stay up all game if I'm playing Survivor or get cleansed immediately whenever I'm playing Killer. I wonder if Killer players would trade being able to see their hex totems for much better hidden spawn locations.