tjt85
tjt85
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110102#Comment_4110102
Always going to be an issue with an asymm game.
How would you propose ensuring there are exactly 4 survivor players for every 1 killer player?I'd just like a system that tries for more than 10 seconds to find me a suitable opponent. I don't want to see crazy long queue times, but I think a system that spends a reasonable amount of time trying to make a decent match up isn't too much to ask for.
Personally, I was in favour of giving the anti-tunnelling and anti-slugging PTB a shot on the live servers because maybe it would have allowed for different skill levels to play and enjoy the game together. It wasn't perfect but it may have allowed weaker players some measure of protection from stronger opponents whenever mismatches occurred. I think that would have been a better direction for the game to go in, instead of yet another MMR update that won't make any difference because keeping queue times lower for one side or the other means it's never given the opportunity to function most of the time. We may as well turn match-making off altogether in that case.
Or we could have a proper split in the queues between casual and competitive play. I've heard the arguments that players will join the casual queue to pub stomp and that splitting the queues never works because we don't have a big enough player base to support that (I definitely agree with this second point). But it might still be better than turning the regular 1V4 queue into a de-facto hidden ranked mode without making it clear to the player base and expecting chill players to go up against sweats, as if they will still enjoy the experience (they won't).
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In theory it might be better than what we have currently, but in practice it won't make any difference at all.
As I write, Killer queues in my region are 5+ minutes long while Survivor queues are 12 seconds or less. You cannot have a functioning match-making system with an imbalance like that. It just isn't possible.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110005#Comment_4110005
I get what you mean. I did an extrapolation to explain why balancing is important.
When you've said "room for some unbalance in DBD" i disagree. This game won't be perfectly balanced ever, but it doesn't mean the devs shouldn't aim to balance the experience as much as they can. Keeping broken stuff will just make everyone experience worse.
There is a current discourse on this community that we should have "imbalance in favor of fun" but i hardly believe that this is said considering only one side. For example, Old Eruption was fun to use as anti-gen since it held the match for longer but it was far too unhealthy to maintain, specially with some killers; Old Undying would made totem builds fun because it turned hexes into a lottery, but it made survivor experience horrible - and Jason wasn't a thing when Undying released; Made For This was far too free and made some specific killers power pointless (Knight, Doctor), etc etc.
All i'm saying is that balance is something done to preserve both sides fun and trying to keep imbalanced things in favor of fun is the wrong move, specially considering the assymetrical nature of this game.
It's all very well saying the game should be balanced, but who exactly are BHVR balancing for? I sure as hell don't feel like they are balancing for casual Survivor players like myself any more. Looking at my escape rates for Sprint Burst (34%) and Vigil (36%), from my point of view these perks are perfectly balanced as they are. They don't need a nerf. I'm not even hitting the intended target of a 40% escape rate with either of these perks. Even MFT only got me to a 38% escape rate (pre-nerf numbers, since I barely use this perk these days).
I do think the game has become a lot more enjoyable (or balanced, if you perfer) for casual Killer players in recent years. With respawning hooks, customisable scratch marks, individual hook counters, multiple Killer buffs and some strong, easy to learn Killers added to the game (among other improvements), Killer is easier and more enjoyable now than it was when I first started playing 3 years ago. But it increasingly feels like improving the Killer experience has come at the expense of making the game quite a lot worse for casual Survivors.
The most frustrating thing about this push to "balance" the game is the fact that the content creators pushing so hard for nerfs to perks like Vigil and Sprint Burst already achieve kill rates in excess of 75%. They're overperfoming even with the current strength of the Vigil/SB combo. I'm convinced that no absurdly high kill rate would satisfy these voices in the community. They'll keep on calling for Survivor nerfs and BHVR, it seems, will keep listening to them.
These days I only play Survivor in events because getting to play around with some overpowered mechanic is the only time I feel I can get one over on the Killer. I'll still die in the majority of my Trails, but at least I'll have a fun moment or two in the match and I won't feel like the completely powerless punching bag that I do in my regular 1V4 games.
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@Skillfulstone said:
I'm honestly a bit bummed about it because I usually don't really play to win and even regularly help Survivors get a few dumb achievements that are nearly impossible to get normally. I usually hooked everyone twice and then turned friendly unless I felt otherwise, am going for an achievement/challenge or the Survivors were a bully squad.
With this change, farming/not sweating & 8-hooking will rocket up the MMR, where I just won't have fun anymore since no one wants to chill at higher MMR and I ain't 8-hooking with 0 kills pros with Nemesis. This applies to every Killer Players that are chill, or at least wanted to be chill.
Side-note. Making it so kills & escape aren't the main components will lock team-slugging Killers (no hooks, absolutely miserable experience) with casual/new players since even if they bleed everyone out every games they won't go up the MMR ladder which means they will never end up against players that will be able to deal with it. Making the new player experience even worse than before.
Hopefully my worries end up being unfounded though, or maybe I'll just have to accept that the days of 8 hooks & 0 kills are over.
You've perfectly summed up my concerns as well. It's a good direction to make your actions in a trial have greater weight in calculating MMR, but I hope that kills and escapes are still the most important deciding factor when it comes to sorting us all into MMR bands.
I worry that it will be possible to play just about well enough to get trapped into an MMR bracket where you never escape or get any kills, yet your match-making rank never goes down. So you'd be stuck in a bracket that you don't really belong in. And as you point out, it won't accurately place Killers that are slugging the entire team to win their trials.
That said, in practice I don't think the new system will feel any different to the old one. It will still pull in players of all skill levels just to fill a lobby so the queue times stay reasonable (just like it does at the moment).
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Damn… They really did gut Vigil then. I guess that'll be poor old Quentin joining Thalita in the no decent perks whatsoever tier.
Tough times to be a Survivor main.
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I love charms. There are so many good ones that it's hard to pick just 3, so I'll just show the ones I use most commonly on my mains:
These are the charms I usually have on Meg. From left to right: The Necronomicon charm from Evil Dead (still looks good even at a small scale), Susie plush (a collectible from The Casting of Frank Stone, to represent my Killer main) and finally a handheld console.
It may sound silly, but I like the idea that Meg has a little game to play to pass the time at the campfire in-between trials. That's why I like her jorts too, because they also come with a Walkman. After all, she's got to do something with all those batteries from the bloodweb for the beamers that I never use.
On my hooks for The Legion are a little plant in a terrarium (I like plants and terrariums a lot), a Meg figurine (again, to represent my Survivor main) and finally the Necronomicon (I love how it glows and is animated. It really is the goat of all charms to me). The terrarium charm also sees some use on my male Survivors but never on my female Survivors because it looks way too big.
I also like to theme charms around what I think certain characters might pick themselves but like I said, I don't want to be here all day.
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I think Resident Evil gets enough love as it is. I think we're way past saturation point with resi content in the game.
Would love to see an Alien themed rift, though! We've had plenty of expensive legendary skins so far, but it would be nice to see a good value rift with a some Ripley cosmetics, Alien charms, badges and banners and maybe also a Feng cosplay skin (similar to what we got with Castlevania). My favourite rift so far has been the the Evil Dead one (the Necronomicon charm is goated. I pretty much bought the rift just for that).
I'd buy an Alien themed rift in a heartbeat but I think Disney likes money too much to let BHVR do anything with the IP except make more overpriced legendaries.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108618#Comment_4108618
Also the chat wheel itself redundant as it seems like tells nothing else over HUD.
Now if chat wheel could show exact coordinates on the map it COULD be useful but alas this wont happen we stuck with being chased or on gen chat wheel, no point
A ping system to tell your teammates what gen you're on or where you are if you need a heal could be game changing. That really would close the gap between SWF and Solo, but that's not what we're getting here.
I can see some of the commands being handy, though. I'll definitely be telling my 50 hour teammates they need to split up if we get a Legion and the "help!" command will be useful if I'm halfway through my first hook timer and nobody has gotten off their gen across the map to come save me. But yeah, some commands will be more useful that others. I'll have to see what other options there are, but I can't see myself using all 8 spaces on the chat wheel.
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If prioritising short queue times takes precedent over all else, I feel confident in saying that whatever BHVR comes up with, it will feel pretty much the same as it currently does. And I can't see them abandoning escapes and kills altogether as the key metric for match-making, I just think there will be modifiers to how much rank you gain or lose due to whatever else you managed to get done in a trial. I think it'll be a mash up of the current skill based system and the old grading system but I guess we'll see.
If the system has some prevention for lobby shopping to stop mismatches due to back filling, that could make an impact on the quality of games. But otherwise, I don't see there being a big change if the most important thing is keeping the queue times as short as possible.
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What would be the point of a separate queues for Survivors that have the chat wheel turned on or off, anyway?
If the feature is popular, players that hate the chat wheel will still leave it on if it gives them quicker queues. They'll just be completely ignoring it in game instead. It'll be like the ability to turn cross play off, a feature that absolutely nobody uses because they know they'll be waiting forever for a game. I'll be honest, I have might have a quick glance at the perks my teammates are running at the start to see if anyone has Deli and again for Unbreakable if we all get slugged, but most of the time I forget to even bother checking. The chat wheel will be the same. You can't make people use a feature if they don't want to.
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I think the biggest challenge / risk to DBD in the near future is the upcoming graphical update and the rebuild to remove all the spaghetti code. Both might be a bit of a gamble, because assuming that will mean leaving older platforms and weaker PC set ups behind, it could leave a lot of the player base behind with them (at least in the short term, anyway. Given that DBD can currently run on pretty much anything, that could be quite a lot of players). So unless the AI bubble bursts, with the increased cost of hardware it could be a while before a lot of players are able to upgrade. And with all the content that the game has, the re-coded game could be a buggy mess that might take BHVR months to get into shape.
But then again, perhaps the update will give DBD a new lease of life and bring in players that were turned off by the dated graphics. It could go either way. Maybe they've planned for a potential drop in players and have money in the bank saved up to keep them going. In any case, if it can get through that update OK, I can see DBD lasting indefinitely.
But I do think we're pretty close to DBD's peak popularity already. There's not much left that could be added to push up the player numbers beyond what we already have (besides adding polarising content that isn't horror like a Star Wars chapter). I doubt it will ever be as popular as Fortnite or Marvel Rivals, horror games are a niche genre and don't have the same potential to grow.
That said, so long as BHVR can attract new players, I can't see it ever coming to an end. Even if BHVR were to put DBD into maintenance mode and just focused on selling new skins, there are probably enough hardcore players to sustain it for a long time yet.
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Pyramid head is still in 2V8? Could have fooled me, because I've not seen him once in any of my games this time around.
I don't know what, but something has to be done to make him more appealing, because there isn't enough variety in 2V8 as it is.
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I think it's fine if it's just an optional thing. If anyone really wants to communicate with their teammates, they've always had the option to party up on discord. As for myself, I'll probably keep it on unless players use it to be annoying or if it ends up causing confusion.
I don't know why anyone would be surprised not everyone would be totally on board with this. I can see how it would break immersion for a lot of players and it is (potentially) a big departure from the way the game has been played for the last 10 years. Not having a complete picture of the game state is something that some players find interesting and actually enjoy. It's a big part of what makes each trial feel different and the game scary and surprising.
If you already SWF, then it's just a worse version of something you already have and it's no big deal, but for us Solos it'll be a completely new experience to be able to communicate with other Survivors. Whether that will end up being a good thing or a bad thing for the health of the game, we'll have to see. But I personally think pushing towards balancing around SWF or a pseudo-SWF SoloQ might turn out to be a monkey's paw in the long run.
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@briguy7 said:
I think this is great! I would like to see the communication pop up/out once activated (like an animation that makes the message larger and then shrink down to normal size). This will bring a little more attention to it. The hud is useful bit it’s easy to miss things if your not constantly looking at it. If there was a slight animation to the word(s) popping up then this would help bring attention to it. I like that it won’t pop up in the middle of the screen and block gameplay.
I was thinking this as well. Like, why put call outs on the HUD where (some of) my teammates are unlikely to see it anyway? Some of my teammates are clearly not using the current info on the HUD as it is. Could lead to even more frustration if your messages aren't getting through to the team.
I'm also a little bit concerned about the potential for information overload, especially among newer players. 8 commands on the wheel seems a bit much to me, but I guess we'll see. I'm also not looking forward to bossy players telling everyone else how they think we should be playing the game. That will get old pretty quickly.
I don't see the point of a "chasing me" call out. I'm gonna be way too busy trying my best not to die to be able to use it in chase and we already have the entity claws so yeah, it seems pointless to me.
I still have misgivings about the efforts to close the gap between SWF and Solo and balancing the game in that direction, because that road will probably lead to sweatier games. If Killers start to feel like every game they play is against a SWF, then I expect to see stronger builds and more camping, tunnelling and slugging on average. But then again, perhaps we're already there and this is just making things more even. I also think some Killers may need some huge buffs if Survivors become a lot more efficient. All of this is "good" if you want the game to become sweatier and more competitive. Maybe that's what the community wants, I dunno…
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Personally, I'd love to see them in 2V8 because I think they would be fun. I'd also find it pretty entertaining to see the player base throw a massive wobbly and have a complete meltdown over their addition.
But we all know it would be a waste of development resources to add them. They'd last 2 iterations (if that) before BHVR caved in to demands to remove them.
So I'd rather BHVR left 2V8 as it is and focused on developing new modes. The community have killed 2V8's future development by stamping their feet over the Legion and setting the precedent that characters can be removed (and now Oni is on shaky ground, too).
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I can only speak for myself, but I tend to only play the events and ignore the regular mode whenever one is live.
I have less reason than ever to play 2V8 since my Killer was removed (since playing Killer with a partner is the main draw of that mode for me). This particular event will also be returning in a few months, so I don't feel in any hurry to jump on to 2V8 because I know it will return very soon. I've also already earned the event banners by playing the other two modes (not that I am motivated by them anyway, as disappointing as they are). I'm sure there are probably other players who feel the same way or have already unlocked the event stuff. I'll still play a bit, but not as much as I might have.
There's also a possibility that more Killer players are playing 2V8 than normal and pushing up queues that way, since it will only be here for a week and not the usual month that it typically lasts for.
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107628#Comment_4107628
I honestly forgot about legion can lose his power but honestly a legion losing his feral frenzy from a pallet stun is way less punishing then a Plague losing her corrupt purge from a pallet stun it's like if for some reason a Oni or Myers could lose their blood fury or evil incarnate from a pallet stun it's just weird
I'd agree with you in 1V4. But in 2V8 it felt pretty punishing to be knocked out of power as Legion because it denied an opportunity to generate pressure for your teammate. And pressure is all they had in that mode. They were half a Killer otherwise. Their power didn't allow them to get the downs necessary to send a steady number of Survivors to cages, they had to rely on their teammate doing all the heavy lifting in that respect. Some of the other Killers are strong enough to carry the team alone, but not Legion.
All of this is academic, anyway. Legion are gone from 2V8 and they're not coming back anytime soon.
@Balrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107665#Comment_4107665
Feedback sharing is an incredibly nuanced practice, it's part of the process to review a lot of information and opinions when sharing with the team!
Please don't forget that there are lots of DBD players out there that you'll never hear from because they're just enjoying the mode for what it is. They're not here on the forums or on reddit complaining about every little thing.
It's good that feedback sharing is a nuanced practice and that we get to hear from you all in the community streams, but I feel like we don't always get clear reasoning from BHVR as to why decisions are made on the back of that feedback. I never did feel like we got a detailed explanation for why Legion got removed from 2V8. Was it simply because lots of Survivor players complained about them being in the mode? Or did you guys have solid numbers to prove they were actually driving players away from 2V8 (with a high DC rate)? Maybe their group Kill rate was a little too strong combined with certain Killers? On those last two points, I didn't see any differences in my Killer queue times when they were in 2V8 and they actually under performed compared to the other Killers that I play (Chucky & Billy). So that leads me to believe that it was the first reason (player complaints). If so, there's no nuance being taken on board to make a decision like that. I take that to read BHVR considers 2V8 to be a Survivor side favoured mode and if enough Survivor players want a Killer gone, then they're gone.
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107535#Comment_4107535
Its kinda funny how the only killer that can lose power from getting hit with a pallet is plague
Ditto for Legion. Knocking them out of power with a stun before they got up to speed was a huge part of their counter play in 2V8. There are endless pallets across the map in that mode but it still didn't matter to their haters and they were removed anyway.
I'm just so, so tired of calls to remove this thing or that thing from 2V8, when it's clear that absolutely everything in the mode is broken and overpowered. Oni isn't balanced in 2V8 but that's also true of pretty much everything else. That's the entire point of it. I've argued this since before Legion were removed but the community disagreed and here we are again asking for yet another Killer to be nerfed to the point that they'll be useless or boring to play as (or else removed entirely).
It's stale and lacking in variety as it is, we don't need to remove yet another Killer from the roster.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
Please always do special modes like chaos shuffle, lights out and 2v8 like this. One week of a certain special mode does not push normal queue times that hard. Four weeks of 2v8 does make the game borderline unplayable. This is a nice middle ground.
I second this idea. I've enjoyed it much more this way because it helps keep all the modes fresh (though I did want to see a bit more Chaos Shuffle).
I barely touch the Killer side at all for the month when 2V8 is live because all my usual Survivors are in 2V8 and BHVR banished my Killer of choice to the void. 2V8 overstays its welcome every time but the player numbers and money it makes BHVR mean that we're probably gonna be stuck with the way things are.
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I think it's fine to come back every now and then but only for a week and no more. It's good for a few jump scares but I feel like there's not much else to it.
I did enjoy this version as Survivor a little bit more than previous iterations but I do think maybe the balance has swung a little too far in the Survivor's favour with the lanterns. It's a hard mode to balance, though (probably harder than any other mode). Only Killers with some kind of tracking or instadown ability have a good time on the Killer side and SWFs have the most fun on the Survivor side (for obvious reasons). That said, I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously at all.
I've enjoyed yoinking Survivors off gens like I used to be able to do with old Myers as a beginner player, so it's scratched that itch for me at least. I still don't think the mode is really for me, though. One afternoon of games was enough and I usually play the heck out of an event if I really enjoy it.
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Anything is better than the two easily misunderstood gestures we currently have (or 3 if you want to count crouching).
I wouldn't get too excited about this being massively game changing, though. It's going to be incredibly simple stuff along the lines of "Killer is near" or "Going for the save". It will still take situational awareness from your teammates to realise if someone who said they were going for the save gets intercepted, then it will be up to somebody else to get off their gen to go rescue instead.
I feel like there's a decent amount of info available to SoloQ Survivors just from the HUD but it isn't being used all that well. Hopefully a chat wheel will at the very least help those Survivors who are more switched on to co-ordinate a little better.
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Justice for Baermar!
Are we gonna get prestige portraits for the rest of the Legion gang, too? Or maybe even just a portrait for unlocking at least one of their skins?
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The only thing I really want to know is will the big graphical overhaul kill off the game for low end PCs, Nintendo Switch and the other older consoles. My guess is that it will, but it would be nice for them to let us know well in advance. They must have an idea if the game will still run on these platforms by now, the only reason why they wouldn't tell us is to keep players spending money on the game.
I'd also like to know if the game even has a future on Nintendo (given that a Switch 2 version is apparently not in the works, afaik). But I don't think we will get an answer to either of these questions.
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Great idea. If I share footage of myself Sprint Bursting into a dead zone, can we all agree that the proposed nerfs to SB don't need to go ahead?
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a little tired of content creators making videos with click bait titles all about getting insane value out of whatever "OP" perk, build or Killer that 99% of the player base could never dream of even getting close to. BHVR ought to know that making decisions based on what a tiny percentage of players can achieve is a great way to suck all the fun out of the video game for the rest of us.
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I've had a good time overall but today, not so much. Half my matches were abandons when the Killer slugged the team or for the 4K and I only escaped 1 game in 10 (a lucky hatch spawn. The Entity must have felt sorry for me).
Shame I had to finish on such a low because I'll miss it going away so soon. Ah well, nevermind.
I didn't play much Killer this time around because I like to be able to see where I'm going. Chaos Shuffle as it currently stands is a beamer squad's dream. So thanks but no thanks to that, BHVR. I'm good.
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I think it's one of the unhealthiest perks in the game too. In general, I dislike perks that are a middle finger to Solo Q players.
Sometimes I'll get this perk in Chaos Shuffle as Killer and wonder why the team is letting their teammates go second or die on hook, only to realise it's because of this perk.
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I'm loving Chaos Shuffle at the moment and having a ton of fun with it (for the most part, anyway. I don't love having no way to deal with beamers on the Killer side). Even when the games go badly I can still mess around trying to get value out of whatever perks the Entity's given me, no matter how useless they might be.
Playing the mode again has rekindled my love for this game. I'm just sad that we only get one week of it, followed up by a week of the worst modifier BHVR have ever created and then 2V8, which has lost most of its appeal for me and comes back way too often to still feel fresh.
So I'm getting my fill of Chaos while I can and then it will be back to being an occasional / events player again. The game needs a shake up, imo. Who knows, maybe we'll get that in the upcoming perk update patch.
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They will probably take action on abuse in the end game chat because the evidence is right there in the chat logs (They've banned players I've reported before).
I don't like the fact Survivors get to pick their items either. I got a little tired of facing beamers so I decided to just play Survivor for the rest of the event. I can't be bothered dealing with those.
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Xeno, just because I'm an Alien fan and I hardly ever get to see one.
And for BHVR to bring back Legion :(
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I think they thematically want to keep things ambiguous when it comes to "winning" and "losing" in the Entity's realm. There are no "winners" in the fog. Both the Killers and the Survivors are doomed to repeat a never ending cycle of trials until they are ultimately discarded into the void when they inevitably become emotional and mental husks.
Plus, back in the real world there are times when a loss might feel more like a win to some players. Let's say you sacrifice yourself to get a teammate out the gate in the end game. You lost because you died but you also won because you still achieved your goal. Or let's say you got 8 hooks but no Kills in a tough match. You lost but at the same time, it's not the same as a trial where you got zero hooks all game, even though the result is exactly the same on paper.
Plus, is it not kind of redundant to tell players they lost? Like, if I didn't escape / kill most of the Survivors, I know I didn't exactly win. Why rub salt in the wound?
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@TWiXT said:
Legions Killer Instinct notifications only activate for survivors within their Terror Radius. In Lights Out Mode, they have no Terror Radius, or Perks to grant them a temporary TR, In fact, the only thing Legion will have access to that can give them KI notifications is Susie's Mix Tape, which increases the KI Detection radius by 20m beyond their TR, without a TR however, it just gives them a small 20 m Detection range. Basically, as long as the team aren't all bunched up together against a Legion with a Susie's mix tape, they're gonna waste a hell of a lot of time frenzy stumbling around in the dark searching for a KI notification.
I don't think they're gonna be as broken as OP is thinking.
Honestly, the killer that scares me more for this mode has gotta be Unknown! Unknown is the quietest when it comes to their movement and breathing noises + They can teleport without giving everyone a global noise notification, and Weakened survivors Glow pink so they're easier to spot in the dark. Other than that there's Myers and GF who can highlight survivors in white with their Stalking powers, or certain add-ons that give them aura vision. TBH, there's a lot more killers on the roster who have more potential to "break" the mode than legion.
I don't know if you played it last time but their power works exactly like it normally does. As far as I understand it, the terror radius is still there in the code but Survivors just can't hear it. Without a terror radius and KI, Legion's power is useless so it has to be there in the background in some way or else they just stop functioning completely as a Killer.
https://youtu.be/ac06LvU-Mgo?si=XxSwfG1fmY9Vgj7O -
Once upon a time I would have agreed with you. The one Legion game I played in Lights Out felt like cheating and I never played them again after that.
But I can't take my main getting banished to the void yet again for being "too good" in another silly time limited mode. That would see us Legion enjoyers sitting on the naughty step for two thirds of the Summer Screams event.
Please can we just stop taking these modes so seriously? Really any Killers with KI as a part of their kit should be banned if you want to go down this road. Honestly, there are probably quite a few other Killers that could be considered "unfair" and eligible for a ban. Bubba is one that springs to mind. He's surprisingly one of the best Killers for sneaking up on Survivors because of how quietly he walks and with his instadown power, you ain't reaching that nearest pallet.
Not that any of this really matters. Nothing can save this mode, imo. Most people hated it the last time it returned and most people will hate it this time around too.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103725#Comment_4103725
I had once Chaos Shuffle match in earlier iterations where we had two No Mither players and still I think most of us escaped so its not even a death sentence people seem to relate it to.
I don't think I've ever got No Mither value in Chaos Shuffle. Most Killers won't leave you on the ground because it's so obvious when a Survivor loads in broken that they've got it. I don't think I've seen anyone else get value out of the perk either. That said, if I'm doing well on Killer I'll sometimes let the No Mither player get at least one self pick up with it just because I pity them for being so unlucky.
Genuinely one of the worst Survivor perks in the game. It's well overdue a rework.
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The only reason why Ghoul isn't making it into 2V8 is because there are enough players out there who will endlessly complain about him if he does. That's all there is to it. It's nothing to do with whether or not they would be suitable for the mode. Wesker has an equally janky power yet he gets a free pass for reasons that I'll never be able to understand. I hate the guy but for much of the community he is a favourite Killer to go up against.
Freddy might be a bit tricky to implement with his dreamworld mechanic, so I doubt we will ever see him. Besides, his license holders seem to have forgotten he exists and BHVR can't flog more cosmetics for him with a themed 2V8 as there aren't any to sell (Ghoul has the same issue).
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I've had some incredibly wild games tonight and it made for some pretty rough experiences for one side or the other. I'm sure it's down to the splitting of the queues, which is also the reason why the MMR changes BHVR are cooking up don't have a prayer of working properly when they go live.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103407#Comment_4103407
That sounds more like an issue with the add-ons themselves. If there are add-ons that are never or hardly ever run at all they should look into that, regardless of the game mode.
Agreed, but then I also enjoyed some of the meme add-on that they got rid of (like the Clown one that switched bottle colours). I think they help remind players that DBD's not meant to be taken super seriously. I guess it depends on what the player base want the game to be. But I will say this, beamer squads are loving this mode because Killers can't bring anything to combat them.
I'm still surprised that wanting both sides to have equally random load outs would be such a hot take. I thought that was the whole point of the mode, but I guess I was wrong about that...
I really don't get this community sometimes.
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@Zoap said:
What on earth do you think the mode Chaos Shuffle is for? If you want to pick what parts you want then the normal mode is right there. Unusable is extreme and wanting the Killer to have an advantage in a mode with random items and perks on the survivor side is ludicrous.
It's not about the Killer having an advantage, it's about the lack of fairness. If Survivors can pick their item then Killers should be able to pick their add-ons. A Med-kit / Beamer / Toolkit is still a useful item regardless of the add-ons it comes with but some Killer add-ons are actively detrimental.
It should be fully random for both sides or you preserve some choice and Survivors get to choose their items and Killers get to choose their add-ons, but it shouldn't be that Survivors get some choice in their build but Killers don't.
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I think Survivor items should be random to make the mode fairer.
As much as I'd hate to get a useless map or a key and although I can only blind Killers at pallets 50% of the time (with only two beamer saves to my name, both of which I'm pretty sure were flukes), I still think Survivors should have totally randomised items. Randomising the Killer is a step too far, though.
I think Lights Out is unsalvageable but if you're wondering why Survivors are getting help in that mode, I have something like a 6% escape rate in Lights Out. I kinda hated it and will probably give it miss when it returns next week even with the base-kit Windows.
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Chaos Shuffle has always been my favourite of all the modifiers but I get why some players might not like it. I like the slot machine aspect and the endless variations of the mode, I guess.
I don't think tunnelling is more common in Chaos Shuffle tbh, rather it's more common than it used to be overall. I think there's possibly also a little bit of a feeling of unfairness from the Killer side because Survivors still get to choose their items whereas Killers have to play with a fully randomised load out.
I used to run add-ons on my Legion that could combat the bully squads and guarantee a little bit of slowdown (Stolen Sketch Book and Fuming Mix-Tape). It would probably be pretty annoying to go up against a beamer / sabo / gen rush squad. I don't get to do that any more. That said, not all Killers have such luxuries with their add-ons, so it's the same old same old for them anyway.
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I was gonna come here to complain about this but you beat me to it!
I know you guys have been stingy with the BP of late, but now we're not giving out rift fragments for the event quests either? What gives?
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I think Insidious would be my choice.
It will never be popular with the play to win crowd, but if you want to go for jump scares and like goofing around with meme play styles, this perk is A-Tier. It has a permanent place in my Chucky Build for that reason.
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@Elan said:
I actually love premonition being the only perk that works against every stealth mechanic. It's bad perk but against Jason it's insane. And the theme of the perk isn't that outdated so I hope that they don't ruin it.
I have a soft spot for this perk as well. The only problem with it is that I think the range is perhaps a little bit too far, so it can go off even when the Killer isn't really anywhere near you. So maybe I might make the range slightly shorter (say 24 meters) or add some kind of range indicator to it (maybe it could make a different sound if the Killer is near or far).
But if they were going to change the effect of the perk entirely I'd rather they'd leave it alone.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102867#Comment_4102867
I wanted a Vigil change as well. I wouldn't have minded a SB activation condition as a change, but this isn't what I wanted to see.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102835#Comment_4102835
Stealth is what I currently use and it goes very well for me. I live in fear those perks will get nerfed too.
One of my favourite stealth builds of recent times is the SB + Vigil + Lightweight + Ghost Notes one, because it lets you zoom about the map without leaving a trace. Funny thing is, the nerfs to SB and Vigil don't even affect this build at all. Lightweight + Ghost notes is good to combo with any exhaustion perk, tbh. I'm kinda surprised it's survived for as long as it has because as soon as I saw a certain content creator / player consultant had the same idea that I did, I worried the days were numbered for this perk combo. That said, it's not very common so it might continue to fly under the radar for a little longer.
I don't worry too much unless there's a noisy and sustained string of complaints about something. After all, it's taken BHVR 9 years to nerf SB but it was only really in the last 6 months or so that the complaining actually became loud enough for BHVR to feel like they had do something about it. They might claim to be data lead when it comes to nerfing things, but I definitely feel like they listen to the noisiest player feedback above all else.
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It's gonna hurt to see this one go onto the scrap heap. Especially so for me, since I don't really like any of the other exhaustion perks. Ironically, I only switched over to SB when MFT got nerfed into the ground. So whatever perks Survivors move on to after this will get nerfed before very long, I'm sure of it.
Besides Head On for my locker Dwight build, I might just give up on them all together and lean more heavily into stealth builds. It might still find a place in my anti-tunnel build, which has become a bit of a museum of eviscerated Survivor perks these days (Made for This + Off The Record + Sprint Burst + Wicked), but I can't see myself ever running it alone.
I'm not going to pretend it wasn't one of the best Survivor perks (it was), but it did come with a pretty big downside in the fact that you couldn't save it for the ideal moment (not unless you wanted to walk around the map all game, which would only be good for the Killer).
Now that it will be one of the weaker exhaustion perks, I think there's a solid argument to make it activate with a button press. But I'm pretty sure Killers that hate SB would riot if BHVR did such a thing, so I don't expect that to happen.
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@Nazzzak said:
I play during the day and the current killer queue times are abnormal. Several months ago I'd wait max of 1-2 minutes, now it's anywhere from 4-6 minutes. Sometimes longer. In the evenings it was instant but now it's around 1-2 minutes. The cause of it is up for debate, whether there's less people queuing up for survivor these days or maybe they're messing with matchmaking again like they have in the past (which notoriously messes with queue times), who knows. But it's definitely not normal for killer queues in all the years I've played.
This has been my experience, too. It's a complete flip on what it used to be when I started. On average, we had much shorter Killer wait times just a few years ago.
I have a theory that Survivors who've played a lot eventually reach a breaking point and crash out entirely or they convert into Killer mains, accounting for the potential shortage of Survivor players. It's only a theory, I don't actually know if there's a lack of Survivors, it's just what happened to me and I think I'm probably not the only one. Survivor is just for Killing time between Killer matches for me these days because I can't hack it otherwise.
The overwhelming strength of every new Killer vs the average lobby and things like the upcoming Sprint Burst nerf probably won't be improving the Survivor experience anytime soon. I can only see this getting worse. The SB nerf alone would be something that would tip my over the edge if I hadn't already thrown in the towel on Survivor.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102299#Comment_4102299
I remember ppl getting very aggravated that the old lady won the vote, even claiming it was rigged in the name of inclusion 🤣
To be fair, they did a vote, the attractive lady won with the old lady second and then they did another vote between just those two. This was kinda odd tbh.
Not saying it is rigged, but it is quite obvious that more people did not want the attractive female Survivor and since they could not vote for their actual favourites anymore, they went for the old lady.
But as I said before, as long as she is played, this is fine. If nobody play her, then I will question why people voted for her in the first place.
Yeah, let's not rewrite history here. It wasn't "rigged", but at the same time I don't remember getting a second vote on any other aspect of the chapter's design.
I lost interest in the entire process because that gave me the impression we were subtly being guided towards what BHVR probably would have made themselves, anyway (like mixing in some obviously silly designs like the Big Head one for the Killer alongside the more conventional ones). The illusion of being invited to "help" BHVR build the chapter was broken for me after that.
I just hope I see plenty of Auroras in my lobbies and she's not going to be relegated to Jonah levels of unpopular within a week.
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I'm interested to see what they've come up with but to be honest, I think whatever they decide to go with is going to be a bit of a fudge. There will never be an accurate MMR system that works the way players expect it to.
There are too many variables to account for, whether that be down to the hundreds of perks and add-ons, 40+ Killer powers, map RNG or the asymmetrical nature of the game. That's not to mention the need to keep queue times low. It's just impossible to build a system that could take all of that into account and make an accurate match up. Assuming that kills / escapes will still be taken into account in the new system, there's also the differing ways that Survivors tend to lose. SoloQ can often lose trials they should have won because of poor understanding between teammates or a single bad decision at a crucial moment, while a SWF might lose more often to altruism turning a guaranteed 3 out into a 4K. What new system could possibly take all that into account?
I never know what MMR bracket I'm meant to be in because the abilities of my opponents or teammates vary so dramatically depending on when I'm playing the game. Killer games played in the middle of the day tend to be easier while games played in the evening can be total sweat fests (and vice versa for Survivor), all because the system prioritises wait times above all else.
That said, I think it will probably take more weighting from the old ranking / grading system. So Survivors that are more active in trials will tend to be rewarded with more active teammates in future trials. And Killers that don't have a high kill rate might nevertheless get tougher matches if they're still able to get a decent amount of hooks in a trial (not sure how much I'd personally like this, since it would probably make my games harder). I think they might also make it so that MMR decays over time after a break.
Those are my best guesses, anyway. Assuming the new system survives contact with the live servers and content creators, whatever system they go with won't feel all that different in practice to what we currently have now.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101639#Comment_4101639
and they will nerf lithe once the content creators start complaining
You are probably right. Lithe is actually a slightly stronger perk for me, but I think it's fair to say BHVR won't be nerfing any exhaustion perks because of SoloQ players like me. All it's doing is taking away yet another perk that I like to play with.
@Slurp_Ramen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101670#Comment_4101670
again I agree with the sentiment. Vigil really is the problem child here.
but sprint burst isn’t exactly innocent, it’s current strength most definitely played a part in why Jason was made so strong, if hold w wasn’t so strong I guarantee Jason’s OE would have a much longer cooldown and he wouldn’t get haste after a jumpscare.
sprint burst is balanced, technically. But when against non-mobility killers its value skyrockets. It’s just a feedback loop, something’s gotta give eventually.Low mobility Killers have other things in their toolkit meant to offset a lack of mobility and to help them cut down chase time, though. That might be a ranged attack like Huntress. Or it might be stealth that allows you to sneak up on Survivors + a dash attack like Chucky / Pig or stalking ability like Myers / Ghostie to shorten the chase. Trapper and Skull Merchant want to push Survivors into their set ups and don't care too much about exhaustion while Sadako can use her TVs to catch up or cut off escape routes. There's also Mindbreaker, which is a pretty solid anti-exhaustion perk. I know it feels bad to have to run a perk to counter this or that in the game, but that's how DBD currently works and how we've told the devs we want the game to continue to work.
Lots of these Killers can struggle at high MMR but I think that's more to do with the higher percentage of SWFs playing at that level, who can negate a lot of these tools and strategies while generally playing more efficiently. But Entity forbid we ever do anything to nerf SWFs, BHVR would rather continue to ignore that elephant in the room.
I'm just tired of balance changes that make my experience worse while never really touching what I think is probably the biggest obstacle to actually balancing the game (e.g. BHVR continually fighting fires trying to balance around the strongest possible SWF using outside tools to communicate with + whatever their current meta load out happens to be).
Players just want to get decent value from their perks. I feel like that's not too much to ask for. It's not like anyone is suddenly going to start using Thalita's perks now that SB is getting a nerf. The same goes for any other terrible low pick perk in the game. I think it would be a better idea to buff more perks to give players viable alternatives and play styles, so we see certain perks a little less often.
(I do understand some of the other nerfs, however. Vigil probably needed a nerf. Thrill mitigated the gamble of running a hex build a little too much and while Coulrophobia was maybe fine on its own, it's promoting a slug heavy play style that they don't want to encourage).
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Massively disappointed by the Sprint Burst nerf but I can't say I didn't expect this coming. Anything that the community constantly whinges about is on borrowed time. I dunno why it's taken them nearly 10 years to nerf this perk if it was really such a problem, but OK I guess…
I'll be swapping my beloved SB out for Lithe whenever this update goes live.
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@sp1nu_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100960#Comment_4100960
A dinosaur in DbD would not be scary, it would just be goofy… and DbD would no longer be a horror asym. I'm afraid if Jurassic Park was to come to DbD, DbD would no longer be able to call themselves are horror game and would lose its identity. I don't know if i'd continue to play if they went that far off course… Vecna, Lara Croft… i can handle but dinosaurs? Nah.
A dinosaur is a weird place to draw the line when we already have a possessed Chuck E Cheese robot from a children's video game and a wizard that summons a big purple hand for a power. That's not to mention the surreal fact that we also have Nic Cage playing himself in the game. DBD has been a little bit goofy for a while now.
If I put you in a time machine and send you back to the cretaceous era, you honestly wouldn't be afraid of all the giant birds with teeth trying you make you their next meal? I think you might be.