Agree or disagree: Those who demand nerfs should show their gameplay.
Ok, for a long time I've seen people DEMANDING nerfs and never show their gameplay on why. Just cry and wants to get their hand held. It's where the majority of the frustration has come from on both sides but I whole heartily agree if someone is going to demand nerfs they must show THEIR footage on why. This is because I don't believe that 99% of the nerfs in DbD in the last few years were even needed and do believe that these cries for nerfs are from user error on those that cry. Agree or disagree on this?
Comments
Ideally showing gameplay would be great, but that’s pretty burdensome. For me personally, to take opinions about balance seriously, I like to see evidence that the person has a good amount of experience playing both sides. I can at least respect an opinion that I disagree with if I know that the person understands how their proposed changes would impact the other side. There are a lot of demands for buffs or nerfs from people who clearly only play one side and usually they just ignore you if you ask if they play both sides. IMO you can’t have a fair/objective opinion about balance if you have no perspective about how your proposed changes would negatively impact the other side.
If we did that, we would just be demoralized by how many cheaters we're all facing that make the match unwinnable
Still waiting for all the OP fog vial usage people complained about that it had to be nerfed so fast
add a replay system and sure but with out one no.
I'd actually rather see people's hours/# of matches played because there are two trends I've seen:
Many of the regular whiners are people with very good stats and high hours. They just want it to be even easier. They want to win all their matches instead of just most.
The other side of regular nerf whiners seems to be newer players who probably just stepped out of bottom MMR and don't yet have the skills or know-how to deal with the real game. I've seen people in this forum who literally do nothing but complain for months or more about how unfair everything is and then you find out they have less than 1k hours. Being new is 100% great and fine but you need to take some time to play and understand the game properly before you talk like an expert.
Agreed. I often also ask for gameplay footage if I see some really outrageous takes. Simply because it does not match at all with my own experience. Especially those people who claim they go against only the best of the best players while this is not even true for Content Creators who play the game for a living and win almost all of their games.
I really wish that DBD implements a Replay system at some point, maybe with the Code Overhaul. This would make many things easier like spotting your own mistakes, just curious interactions or reporting cheaters.
Honestly, I'd instead want those asking for nerfs and even buffs "Why?"
In my experience, not a lot of people in this community like to explain their answer, or if they do, it's either the most lukewarm, nondescript answer you've ever read, or a series of whataboutisms where they attempt to deflect.
There's a lot more of whining/complaining than there is feedback as well, where instead of trying to come up with solutions and going from there, people just wanna yell into the void for no real reason.
It's not realistic. But i do agree with your sentiment. I think too many people look for stuff to blame when they dont get the outcome they wanted, because it's easier than accepting they played badly or their opponent/s were just the better player. It's why even when whatever nerf they want goes through they always suddenly find something else they want nerfed.
Unfortunately recording gameplay isn't easy for everyone to do. On my PS5, I can save footage from the match I just finished if it had something notable. I cant really do that on my Switch...
^ This right here. I would love this a lot. Truly. It would be beneficial. I also would like to go back and watch my matches. To see from different angles. HOW I messed up. Did I flick too hard? Was it a bug? What went wrong to better my own gameplay.
I find that fun. I was in a custom last night on the PTB with some friends. I was playing as The Judgement. I kept asking "How close was I? Did I miss by a long shot? TELL ME!" LOL. Cough Cough @cogsturning @Skittlesthehusky
Yes and no.
On the no side - we've had people take the challenge before and it rarely does anything. It doesn't change any opinions and you just get responses of - 'That game's just an outlier', 'you were playing/against [certain killer]/[certain perks] and that's an exception', 'you cherry picked that game' or, the classic 'that's clearly not high MMR'.
On the yes side - on the truly absurd takes, I'd like to see it. Like 'I went five straight games without getting more than two hooks', okay, I want to see what is going on.
Great idea. If I share footage of myself Sprint Bursting into a dead zone, can we all agree that the proposed nerfs to SB don't need to go ahead?
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a little tired of content creators making videos with click bait titles all about getting insane value out of whatever "OP" perk, build or Killer that 99% of the player base could never dream of even getting close to. BHVR ought to know that making decisions based on what a tiny percentage of players can achieve is a great way to suck all the fun out of the video game for the rest of us.
Don't M1 me!
Disagree because what would that really acomplish? On both sides the gameplay would be nitpicked to hell and back just to deny the person's point;
"Omg these survivors are garbage, no wonder you think killer is OP".
"2 of the 4 survivors weren't running exhaustion perks..no wonder you think X is overpowered",
"uh yeah, a stacked team with 4 toolboxes with bnp + hyperfocus & stakeout will crush a bad ghostface, is that really your point?"
"Are you seriously running pebble and complaining about killers camping and tunneling?"
"Kate was throwing when she tried to mind game the kaneki like a dummy and went down in 5 seconds, game was over after that"
"This has to be a low MMR game because X did Y lol, do you really think something needs to be nerfed because your games are like this?"
There's no world where the gameplay will actually be acknowledged as "ok yeah you have a point", it will just be "anecdotal!! And the people/you are bad and so therefore your point deserves zero thought".
It would be this exactly. I always assume anyone asking for gameplay is attempting a set up.
I mean it's kinda hard to see if someone is having fun based on their gameplay. I can show you a compilation of me dcing against crayon muncher and logging off for the night, but that's not very interesting gameplay.
I mean, I get what you’re saying, but at the same time, there’s going go be some elitism that comes with it.
If someone posts a clip, and makes even 1 deviation from what’s seen as ‘the optimal play’, they’re going to get ridiculed, and the whole conversation is pretty much dead.
I don’t really like the idea of a #matches played indicator either. It makes the people with the highest numbers king, when they don’t necessarily have to be the most knowledgeable (or even just a pleasant person).
We’d essentially be putting the players most likely to be jaded on a pedestal. Idk if we necesarily want that.
Dodge This
https://youtu.be/HppVjahqC0cWhile i agree that most discussions are pointless without knowing the dbd experience, gameplay wouldnt really matter.
From my experience almost nobody here wants to take input which could change their opinion.
But gameplay could help with improving. If someone nitpicks your gameplay to show why a nerf is not needed, you could use that info to get better. But most people dont want that, they just want to complain.
And yh some would be rude, but there are also many people who would give genuine advice.
That said what about starting every discussion with a clocktower 1vs1.
pretty much what I was gonna say about the elitism.
and also… let people complain and vent a bit on the forums, i had plenty of interactions with people here that seemed very upset and ‚demanded nerfs‘ who After some comment exchanges cooled down and admitted they overreacted.
In other cases, some Nerfs might seem unneeded from ‚our‘ more hardcore/experienced perspective - but we have to acknowledge that the game cant and shouldnt be balanced around just for the few 6K+ hour players. Its still just a game and while it may not be just a party game its also far from a competitive esport - hopefully those people will be more satisfied with the 1v1 Mode though,
This. Or just even more silly stuff like "you're playing in a noob region", "you're not even playing at 3:32am on a weekday with a full moon out" and so on.
It's very easy to forgive even genuine massive misplays if the footage is supposed to support your claim, and dissect it like anything short of playing it as perfect as a dbd match converted to a spreadsheet of timers "doesn't count" otherwise. People already do it WHEN people post gameplay or refer to content creators for examples of stuff.
I am more likely to disagree. Why? Its not about how good or bad a player himself can play. Its about how good or bad a player can objectively analyze gameplay. Its like saying, a trainer should show first how good he once played before giving advice as trainer (and the best trainers mostly never played on high level). You just dont need the mechanical confirmation. Most people either lack objectivity or the ability to proper analyze situations, and those things cannot be shown, you just know that those people are wrong. And it mostly doesnt make sense to discuss with those people as they woulkd never accept their wrongdoing.
As someone who has already posted their gameplay when someone tried to do a "gotcha" moment, it doesnt make a difference. Someone who "wants to be proven wrong" dont expect you to actually do it and when you do, they still dont back down.
The thing is, elitism already exists. You can see it with MMR. People claim that they are at the highest MMR and if your experience does not match their experience, you are at low MMR. And it already happened years ago that people demanded proof that you are at Rank 1.
I think it is more the way how people who want to complain or ask for Nerfs approach this. E.g. I see people complain about Pallet Density and then see a video of them breaking every single Pallet, even the most useless ones. If such a video would be posted here, you would get completely different reactions depending on how the overall post is structured.
"OMG THE DEVS ARE SO SURVIVOR SIDED DBD DEAD GAME SOON" with a video of poor Killer gameplay will most likely not be positive for the OP.
But if the same video gets posted with something like "Hey, I am really struggling on Map X, there are just too many Pallets and the Gens get done too quickly. Am I doing something wrong or is this Map survivor-sided?", you would get way different responses because people would be more willing to help.
For example OhTofu did a series years ago where you could submit bad games and he would review them and tell you what to improve. Those were things like giving up in chases too quickly or being too stubborn in a chase, taking chases into Deadzones or kicking low progress Gens before starting a Chase and similar things. And I feel you can get feedback like this on the Forums as well, if you are not just complaining or ranting.
LOL
I didn't know he used to do that. It'd be great to have a How Can I Improve sort of space for newcomers. I feel like CCs are so caught up in ragebaiting that it's a niche that's not being explored