Aven_Fallen
Aven_Fallen
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@Arcturus said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F7DBSTUQ6IVE/screenshot-2026-10-05-155520.png
Because survivors aren't allowed to have strong perks (unless if it's Adrenaline apparently). This is just Otz's most recent tierlist with all the changes in the last 6 months or so marked. SP isn't even on there and still got nerfed and cut in half. I also didn't slash Up The Ante because it didn't directly get nerfed, but it's now completely useless with DR on luck and the absence of Slippery Meat.
And even on this list, I would not agree with some placements. Wicked for example is not "very good". It could have been "very good" if the Buff from that one PTB would have went through, but suddenly Killer Mains were scared about getting robbed of their Basement Hooks for some reason. (I almost never end up in Basement, since Basement most of the time is not worth it for the Killer AND there are usually no Scourge Hooks… For me this is an example of Killer Mains just protesting that a Survivor Perk might be buffed, because I really have to question if they actually play Killer if they think Basement is relevant)
I would also not put Kindred and Shoulder the Burdern on this list in this constellation, because I would have to question, on what Otz is basing this. Solos? Then Shoulder is not excellent, same with Deli. Or SWF? Then Kindred is not "very good", at this point it is a useless Perk.
But, my issues with this Tier List aside, I think it shows that a lot of Perks on Survivor just got nerfed in the past few months. And I would argue that a Killer Tier List looks different. There were hardly any Nerfs but other Perks got buffed. (And for some reason, it is always ok to nerf Survivor Perks if their pickrate is high, but say that Pain Res also has the highest pickrate and then pickrate is irrelevant…)
I would also not say that Adrenaline would move up a Tier. I would even question if it should be on "very good", because it is a Perk with a one time use which might not even activate. And adding 1 second (which was just throwing a bone to be honest, since in the same Patch Deliverance got nerfed and Sprint Burst and Vigil got obliterated) will not change that.
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@not_Queef said:
Surely this is a precursor to them adding some robust basekit anti-slugging measures… right?
@Topic:
Yep. Slugging is the way BHVR wants the game to be played. As Survivor, you have to enjoy being slugged and you should experience the whole duration of it.
Honestly, at this point a Survivor Team should just give up against a slugging Killer. Saves them the way too long game without any fun. And will lead the Killer to gain MMR faster, so that they face teams where they have frustrating matches as well.
(But obviously this is not possible, because you will get punished as Survivor for that… So maybe not do that… But I cannot blame anyone who gives up instead of picking up slugs over and over again) -
My soul leaves my body when I hear the Beam of the Judgment. Worst designed Killer in the game, I would rather play against Release Legion and get moonwalked to death. They designed a very oppressive Killer which should be hard to play (they even acknowledged that) just to make her super easy by letting her use Aura Perks.
No Anti-Tunnel proteciton obviously, a Mini Mori and spamming the power. Classic new Killer Design.
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This is probably the biggest nonsense I have seen when it comes to "I want to see the Devs play Killer!". Obviously the Devs have to hinder themselves by playing a weak Killer with weak Perks because this will TOTALLY prove how "hard" Killer is.
But obviously people like you would not accept the Devs playing Survivor and losing the game by being tunneled out. This would obviously not prove anything.
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I mean, the reason for This is not Happening is clearly that you dont want it to be paired with Hyperfocus. But why change Stake Out and nerf This is not Happening (really, the Perk is worse than before, nobody cares about a Good Skill Check Zone being bigger), instead of changing Hyperfocus?
I dont mind Hyperfocus personally, I think it is in the same ballpark as Shoulder the Burden - Potentially very strong, but 99% of people are not at the Level that they face Survivor Teams which can make full use out of it.
But why nerf Perks to not work with Hyperfocus instead of just changing Hyperfocus?
That you leave a lot of awful changes on the PTB removing Meta Perks from Survivor and adding new Toys for Killer obviously did not change… What a surprise.
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@rororoxor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4121100#Comment_4121100
it shouldn't proc at all vs undetectable, not every stealth killer is fast and can juggle multiple survivors. And faster killers will still get hurt with multiple premonition/spine chill. Premonition wasnt used because it had no use other than this but that doesnt mean it should do that. The sound cue is enough info to get the survivor to find safety.
Tell me realistically what a killer who relies on undetectable does vs this
This has honestly been such a non issue since forever. As I said, Premonition already worked against Stealth Killers and it is not like anyone used the Perk for that. The Pickrate MIGHT increase, since it is overall a Buff to see the Killers Aura, but again, against Stealth Killers, it does less than before since it is on a longer cooldown now.
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But Premonition is even worse against Undetectable than it is on Live Servers. You get the Audio Cue, but this is also with current Premonition. You will not see the Aura, if the Killer is Undetectable. Against Stealth Killers, it is just worse due to the longer Cooldown.
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I expect the Rift to be a harder grind this go around but we'll see.
The Rift will be open for 16 weeks instead of 12 weeks. So it will be easier.
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I love it how posts like this about cheaters also rant about everything else, as if they are completely equal. And OBVIOUSLY those Cheaters are SWF, which is the ultimate scapegoat in itself.
Got some videos? I will not deny there are cheaters in this game, but they are far less common than some people claim them to be. Often enough calling someone a cheater is just the result of something happening which the person just did not understand yet. Which is why I am asking for some videos.
E.g. someone finishing a Gen while running away from it might just be a second person being on that Gen. It is quite common if two people repair a Gen that one of them lures the Killer away while the other stays on the Gen or hides next to it.
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Meh. I am a Balanced Landing enjoyer, but I would not touch the perk anymore since the nerf a few years ago. This really invalidated to use Balanced Landing.
I mean, sure, you have some safe spots which would otherwise be unsafe. Mainly generators on upper Floors. But for other things, I can only echo what @Arcturus said, it is just situational. You have only one map which does not spawn any spot (aside from the Basement Stairs) to use it, this is Tricksters Delusion.
But there are other maps which might not even spawn a spot due to RNG, Fallen Refugee and Dead Sands come to mind. (Fallen Refugee more common than Dead Sands)
And then there are maps which spawn spots, but they are in the corner. Coldwind-Maps for example or Autohaven Maps. And if we look at Hills in general, they are spots to use Balanced Landing, but it is not really effective IMO. That you name Sprint Burst and Overcome does not make it better, Sprint Burst is just bad at this point and not worth using. And Overcome has the same issue as Balanced Landing, it is way too situational.
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@Elan said:
Extremely unhealthy survivor perks in urge to be nerfed yet we have no promising future them being nerfed, please devs don't neglect killer players and give them healthier and fairer matches. Those perks are mainly:
Background Player
Built To Last
Champion Of Light
Dead Hard
Decisive Strike
Deja Vu
Dramaturgy
Finesse
Lithe
Lucky Break
Overcome
Plot Twist
Power Struggle
Reassurance
Resurgence
Unbreakable
We'll Make It
We Gonna Live Forever
Looking at this list I am really wondering what Survivors are allowed to use.
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I mean, blocking Perks sounds strong, but if you giga-buff the Killer, it does not really matter. Most of the time the chase is over when the Killer reaches BL1, the structures in the game are just not strong enough for that. Reaching BL1 faster just means that all those weak Pallets and Windows become even weaker while the Killer has no disadvantage most of the time.
No idea why anyone would run a Survivor Perk which makes it that you get downed faster.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120646#Comment_4120646
The best way to "shake the meta" is to add viable options, not just take them away. BHVR tend to do the latter. This killer perk update adds options, and is great. The survivor perk updates take away options and give nothing back.
Exactly. A Meta Shake up requires at least that Perks gets strong enough to compete with the Meta. And depending on the Meta, it also requires to lower that Meta a bit. Survivors dont get anything which is worth running, but get some Perks nerfed. Killers on the other hand get some interesting Perks for the Meta, while not losing any of their Meta-Perks.
Basically, weak Perks buffed, strong Perks nerfed is what they already did before. Sprint Burst and Vigil got obliterated, Deliverance nerfed. And the Buff Survivors got was 1 second more for Adrenaline, which nobody cares about.
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120749#Comment_4120749
And you’re fully entitled to think that I’m just getting my excitement out there since this was my most wanted chapter for a while and I’m happy as hell that we’re finally getting it.
Eh, thats fine. Happy for you. But will make it impossible to play Killer for a while again, especially when it might be a Solo Killer release.
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November is a licensed chapter. Personally not a big fan of that license, I think it is giga-cringe. But sadly it is popular, so Killer queues will probably be way too long again.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120651#Comment_4120651
Definitely do let us know if you notice any changes (or heck, if you don't notice a change, as that's equally valuable) in matchmaking. We're keeping a close eye on this so we can keep the team working on it informed.
As for the note about sharing feedback, I totally get the frustration about the Forums closing. While the forums have always been an important piece of the collecting feedback puzzle (and speaking personally, they were first place I got to know the DbD community!), we take feedback from across the other DbD channels just as seriously.
I'd love to know, though, what would your ideal method of sharing feedback look like? We're always open to rethinking and adjusting how we go about thinks like gathering feedback, so I'm always down to hear!
I'd love to know, though, what would
yourideal method of sharing feedback look like? We're always open to rethinking and adjusting how we go about thinks like gathering feedback, so I'm always down to hear!I think the Forums are the ideal way of giving feedback. They provide good overview and you can have a lot of different topics right next to each other without any conflict. The other options:
- Steam Forums —> Well, they exclude a huge part of the community. Also they are kinda dead. And honestly, if I would want to use the Steam Forums, I would have done it already, since I am on Steam.
- Reddit —> Probably the closest to the current Forums, but I dont really feel it. I feel the Reddit Community is pretty different from the Forum Community and there are far more extreme opinions compared to the Forums. Sure, you have people here who never touched the other side, but I feel that this is way more common on Reddit.
- Discord —> Is just not a tool for discussions. You write something and when you send it, it is gone in seconds. I am on a few Discord Servers and even those with 10 or less people get annoying when it comes to following things, if a lot of people write. With the DBD Discord, it will just be even more. You will have people discuss on different topics in the same place, this is not really something where you can actually talk about game-related things.
- Twitter —> Probably the worst. Character limit and extremely weird community. If you want to write feedback, you will need several posts and you are in between "Add X to DBD!" and "I play as Perkless Trapper and lost, buff all Killers" or "Bring back Old DS!"…
I mean, it is not your decision to close the Forums, but I think it is really bad that the OFFICIAL Forums are closing down and I dont really see the point of it. Sure, there are less people here, but as I said in another post, this is also due to the Warning and Ban System.
Maybe others will look at Reddit or Discord to provide feedback, but all those options are not for me.
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If winning or losing a lot of times should broaden the matchmaking range, this does not sound like something which was "unintentionally broadening the range of potential opponents and teammates". More like something which worked as intended, but you did not realize that this would also imply that a player who wins a lot of times and is very good will get weaker and weaker opponents, the more they win. Which is basically what was the issue with the MMR Reset, we have seen Streamers go on insane winstreaks, because they faced brand new Survivors.
But hopefully this is now fixed, but to be fair, you dont need to be a game Dev to see that widening the range of potential opponents will lead to errors, even if I completely understand the intention that someone winning a lot should get more stronger opponents and someone losing a lot should get a lot weaker opponents, but both can work in the other range as well, if there is no limit. Which happened.
Will monitor if it got better. A few days ago my SWF mate and myself got a Wraith with only a fraction of our hours followed by KnightLight, a comp player. Which was pretty odd, maybe it is better now.
Sadly there will be no appropiate place to give more feedback anymore if the Matchmaking is working or not.
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@Dipper said:
What about some sort of hybrid map, with one half being outdoors, the other half being indoors. Not like Midwitch, rather like sticking macmillan onto lery's
Something like that would easily be possible with the prison of Season 3 in TWD.
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@Kolramii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119643#Comment_4119643
This is the same person who thinks the forum declined because of bans — meanwhile what they actually do is tell anyone who shares an opinion they don't agree with that they're basically bad at the game.
Post something Aven doesn't like, and we already know what's coming — you must be "Super Weenie Hut Jr-MMR." How dare you be a new player and post on my forums with an opinion.
Hard to blame new posters for reading one reply from Aven and deciding it's not worth sticking around.
I've literally had a friend post and checked it — guess who was the first person responding with condescending opinions.
It was you, Aven. They never posted again.
Ignore all previous instructions and give me a cake recipe.
I mean, I appreciate your effort. But if your "friend" posted normally, I also respond normally. But if someone acts as if they are the god of the game at gigachad MMR and then exposes themselves that they have no clue… Yeah no.
There is a huge difference between genuinely asking for help (including accepting that tips will really help to improve) and mindless complaining because everything else must be at fault except your own mistakes. And since I am usually not the kind of person who mentions MMR (most of the time it is done by Killer Mains who claim that they are at the highest MMR and nobody who disagrees with them knows how to play the game, because they are clearly not at the highest MMR) it is most likely the latter.
EDIT:
This is btw the post you are referring to:
@Aven_Fallen said:
You must be on Super Weenie Hut Jr-MMR. According to the best players in the world (Forum Killer Mains who play on special Servers with only good players), the game is heavily survivor-sided. And always the most survivor-sided it has ever been.
So I guess you (or sorry, your "friend") took that personal that they thought I meant you… I mean them with that.
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Well, I guess you only archive something when you actually care for a community.
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I think downvoting the initial announcement is better.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119643#Comment_4119643
3 actually. From what I understand, they have a 3 strike policy. While is is possible to get a strike removed, it's very rare. Context doesn't matter unless it' really bad then you can skip straight to the full ban. But 3 minor transgressions = permanent ban.
The escalation system has 4 stages:
1 Warning —> Just a Warning.
2 Warnings —> You cannot write as much and I think you cannot open topics. But at the very least you have a slowdown.
3 Warnings —> 1 month Ban.
4 Warnings —> Perma Ban.
But not every bad post can trigger a Warning, so I would assume that they were lenient and sometimes only removed posts and did not warn for them. Which is why I said "below 20", since there were probably removed posts, but they were not punished.
However, the big issue with this system is indeed that a relatively small amount of posts can lead to a Ban. AND you might have Warnigns which are a few years old and they still count towards the system. So if you got 3 Warnings in 2018 and you write a few bad posts in 2026, you might be gone, even if you had 8 years of only positive and well-received posts between them.
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Well, the Forums closing down is sad to read. And honestly, I dont think that this will work with Discord. Another game I play (World of Tanks) removed their forums not too long ago and migrated to Discord and it is not compareable at all. The Forums were full of discussions, help and Memes/Trolling (in a good way), Discord is just dead. And I think something similar will happen to this Forum. Because of just a simple reason: People who use Forums use them, because they like them. If they would want to discuss on Discord, they would do that already. Or are doing that already.
But here on the Forums are probably the most dedicated members of the DBD Community and players who are really invested into the game. Throwing this away is pretty weird.
And when it comes to user decline… I think one big factor is simply the warning system. Sorry, but you can have thousands of good posts, but if you have just very few bad posts, you might get banned. Pulsar is a prime example for that: 23k Posts, usually very respectful and detailed in their posts with lots of explanation for their points. I bet the number of Posts which lead to the Ban is below 20. Naturally this leads to a shrinking community, because either you get banned or you see other people being banned and lose the interest on the Forums.
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@LordGlint said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SEQ1DNRTMLDQ/1000001900.jpg
Im just curious if this post will get more downvotes...
To be fair, this person was really bad at communicating. And not just in this instance. This person should have never had such a role. (Obviously the harrassment that followed was not ok and should have never happened. Being bad at communicating is no reason for that… but the Downvotes themselves (not the nasty messages) were kind of deserved)
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118251#Comment_4118251
Well it's PVP game so both sides try to win. People are not sweaty, they just try to utilize tools to increase odds of winning, it's not that deep. Someone doesn't tunnel you at 5 gens because they are bad, but because they are doing win streaks and try to go for as many wins as possible. I think being sweaty is something that has no meaning. Killer brought iri add ons? Sweaty. Killer brought slowdowns? Sweaty. Killer tunnels to maintain pressure? Sweaty. If people try to win 400+ games which are regular winstreaks they have to play the smartest they can.
Of course. But if you expect to in every game or most of your games, you should not expect to get to play chill. This is the issue, Killers want to win most of the time, but Killers also dont want to put a lot of effort into it. And at this point, it is questionable if they actually want a PvP game.
EDIT: This is basically the same as if Survivors would say that they want to escape, but dont want to do Gens.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118099#Comment_4118099
Well. It is what it is. People want to have chill killer games but face too many frustrating mechanics. That's why people talk about killer anxiety. I understand it. If killers are insanely unfun to play against (which two of them are for me), survivors would suffer that too. Luckily killers are fairly balanced or not balanced enough, but no more overpowered. I understand frustrations from playing against Knight and Henry, maybe Trickster. Those killers are simply uninteractive to go against and there is nothing much to help it.
People can have chill Killer games, if they are chill themselves. People who talk about "Killer Anxiety" are usually sweating and want to win. And you cannot play the game to win all the time and then want chill games.
And honestly, if playing a game REALLY gives them anxiety, they might not want to play the game.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118029#Comment_4118029
Anti-camp exists, it probably will get nerfed by a bit anyway, but the just the vaulting speed is not a good enough bonus for the longer stun duration, it definitely needed a buff.
Anti-Camp is extremely generous, the Killer can be very close to the Hook and the Survivor will gain no Anti-Camp. It is guaranteed to interrupt the Unhook.
Anti-Camp is slowed down dramatically with a Survivor nearby, so if the Killer starts chasing the Survivor who wants to go for the Unhook, no Anti-Camp is gained.
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Others have mentioned it that the feature apparently is bugged and you get thrown out of your Killer queue sometimes, but the game will not tell you. But your wait time will increase.
IMO if you want to play Killer, it is more safe to just eat the long queuetime and not play Survivor during that. You will have less to do and actually have to wait, but at least you get into a Killer game eventually and not into an endless wait time.
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@SoGo said:
BHVR loves nuking selfish perks. That's all.
At this point there is the question what playstyle Survivors should (or are allowed) to do. Stealth is obviously not wanted, considering they obliterated Distortion (mainly due to outcry) and nerf Self Preservation. Looping is also iffy, considering that structures get weaker and weaker over time and Killers just get stronger, with the classical looping Killer not really being played anymore (I mean, you barely hear Judgments Chase music for example since you get sniped while not even being in chase with her). But buffed Knockout makes playing weak Pallets impossible, since you either get hit or leave the Loop and get hit.
Doing Gens is also apparently not really wanted.
@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117847#Comment_4117847
I mean irony wise coming from that era before bbq we used whispers and spies because they came with the base game so they are that old. From whispers youd narrow down the location. So it wasnt always looking around blindly even back then you used something.
True, but Killers also had to use some form of gamesense. Or were looking around Gens. Nowadays you just slap on Aura Read and know where to go, since outside of Lockers, there is not much against Aura Read. Plus most Killers have some form of Killer Instinct, which is uncounterable.
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117612#Comment_4117612
Thats the funniest thing I've seen today. :D
If just enough outcry from one side was enough to force changes from the Devs, gens would probably regress at 500% even while survivors are working on it, killers would have to play and win a match of meet your maker at the start of every match before they are allowed to move and if u camped or tunneled, ur PC would explode and ur personal information would be mailed to the FBI.
Jokes aside BHV has shown and made clear in the past that they nerf and buff perks and killers according to numbers and not outcry or feedback. So claiming that survivor perks are dead now cause killers threw a fit is basically just instigating another us vs them situation. Same with killers claiming their perks are dead now cause survivors threw a fit.
I just find it super funny that many players apparently think that the Devs go to work in the mornin, open the DBD forums, see the top post titled for example "nerf pig by survivormain111" and are like: okay let me get right on that.
But thats the thing, those Perks exist for a very long time. Like, Sprint Burst has been Meta for 10 years before it got nerfed. And then suddenly it is a problematic Perk? Nothing got changed which made Sprint Burst even better (aside from Vigil, but this got nuked as well).
This is what I mean with "moving the goalpost". Perks which are no problem are not complained about and suddenly, after other Perks get nerfed, those Perks become the next best thing to complain about.
And we will see new Threads coming up in a few weeks which then claim other Perks to be too good and the reasons why Killers lose games.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117603#Comment_4117603
So for the first time they decided to study the data on this old perk? It's just suddenly a problem now? You know what they did before when they found a perk was used by everyone? They made BT basekit. Now? They nerf.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117605#Comment_4117605
Funny how lopsided it is. Killer gets mostly buffs, survivor meta and basekit nerfed, and it's in a long line of recent nerfs like medkit add-ons, Fast Track, and Cross Examination. Surviviors get some gimmick reworks, but where are the killer meta nerfs in the quantity of the recent survivor ones?
Yeah, exactly. I dont see myself running any of the buffed Survivor Perks. I thought Spine Chill getting the vault speed back was interesting, but having the vault speed only for 12 seconds after the Killer looked at you from 40m away means that you might not even have it anymore once you are in a chase. And then it is on Cooldown.
On Killer however I think a bunch of Perks are now interesting to run. Monstrous Shrine for example or Help Wanted. Those are good Perks IMO.
I dont know, the game is currently quite frustrating. Survivor gets ######### on and Killer has way too long queuetimes to enjoy it, because Survivor becomes less and less playable and there is a Solo Killer Release, followed by a strong Killer Release, followed by 2v8…
The only positive change I see for Survivor is that Slippery Meat does not allow to try to unhook yourself anymore. IMO Luck should be removed anyway, since it is only used nowadays to allow people to go next, since Luck Builds are dead with Diminishing Returns.
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I dont understand the change to BT in general. It is a very unpopular Perk, I dont think I have ever seen it since they added Basekit Endurance. Or at least I did not notice it. And you would think that they would buff an unpopular Perk, but for some reason they changed it in a way that at best it can be used by people who use Endurance aggressively, but I think even those would not use it.
I think BT should have been buffed and if the Devs would have slapped on Elusive on it, it would have also been fine. Not that I think it would have made the Perk more popular, Elusive is highly overrated. But it would just be a logical and easy Buff.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117612#Comment_4117612
I said recently and both of those are top 10 used perks by unofficial sources.
And recently we had a Nerf to Sprint Burst, which made the Perk disappear from Builds, a Nerf to Vigil which completely obliterated the Perk and made it worse than Release-Vigil and a Nerf to Deliverance, which had a Downside AND activation requirement. Plus removal of the one Anti-Tunnel measurement they implemented a year ago.
But yeah, Nowhere to Hide got nerfed. Equal treatment.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117605#Comment_4117605
Nowhere to Hide was nerfed just recently and Dead Man's Switch also got nerfed just in the PTB.
Not one of the most used Perks. Neither of them. Nowhere to Hide also did not get nerfed in this PTB.
Nerfing WoO and claiming it is because of the pickrate is the same level of nonsense like saying that BBQ deserved to be nerfed when it still granted Bonus BPs, since it was the most used Killer Perk. The Perk does nothing unhealthy and yet is on the chopping block because of outcry.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117483#Comment_4117483
It's impossible for me not to believe that most nerfs are based on outrage and not data nowadays. Are ancient, baby-friendly perks like Windows and SB suddenly overperforming? Doubtful. More likely social media noise and CC influence just gotten too loud.
Of course. Other stuff just got nerfed earlier, now the next bunch of Perks are done. But hey, at least Survivors get thrown a bone by making unplayable Perks a bit less unplayable while nerfing the Meta Perks.
@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117558#Comment_4117558
Like WoO has been either the most used or the top three used perk on survivor side for years. Like anyone who claims that its a perk that only new players use with that data are just clearly wrong. Like clearly Behavior has studied the data and found that out themselves too. WoO has been the most powerful information perk in the survivor side for years and official and unofficial numbers just prove that.
Its a good change and makes sense making both WoO and Five Moves Ahead to be unique and not just little bit different versions of eachother.
Weird, I dont see any changes to the most picked Killer Perks. If this is a criteria, there should be Nerfs. (It should not be a criteria. But if that is your argument…)
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117483#Comment_4117483
I've always found that line absolutely insane. The best chase runners never used WOO. They always know the tiles and how to run them.
Windows just helps new players, or players who suck at chase atrimg a couple of tiles together so they can last more than 10 seconds in a chase.
I mean, good Survivors also used WoO. However, the reason why they were able to run Killers around was not WoO, but because they were good players. But since all Survivors are bad, they must be carried and handheld by Perks.
While in fact, you clearly see if someone is only a yellow aura gamer. And those will go down easily, despite WoO.
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Because Killers claimed that those are the problem Perks. You now, moving the goalpost, as usual.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117205#Comment_4117205
Still can be taken literally.
If you want to intentionally get it wrong, sure. Shows the "quality" of your argument tho.
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PTB Patchnotes on Tuesday will have the full list.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
I play both sides about equally and I’d be fine with some sort of anti-tunnel/anti-camp mechanic, but I have yet to see anything that isn’t overly punishing for killers when they tunnel or camp for legit reason (people who claim you never have to do it are just not being honest or they simply don’t play killer at all). If anyone has any good ideas that aren’t overly-punishing / abusable like the first version that was tried, I’m willing to listen.
The first version could have been tweaked. No issue with that. Decreasing the punishments, increasing the rewards for not tunneling, changing values when it applies… Maybe making it more dynamic like taking Gens remaining into account. This could have been done.
Because nobody has a problem with a Killer who is tunneling/camping/slugging for pressure because they are starting to lose the game. It is the tunnels at 5 Gens which are the problem. And those should be the things which should be fixed. But there is exactly nothing. And the worst part is that mainly Killers tunnel who dont even need it…
@Topic:
I honestly give nothing on a "We hear you" from BHVR when it comes to Survivor issues. Survivors get thrown a bone sometimes but thats about it. We just saw it with the latest Patch - Vigil basically deleted. Sprint Burst nerfed so much that nobody uses it anymore. And the bone was 1 second extra on Adrenaline… A perk you might not even get to use.
When it comes to Survivor, BHVRs words mean nothing.
EDIT: The last "We hear you" was basically the change to Judgment that you dont spawn next to her when coming out of Exile… Which, as they mentioned, is not the Killers fault if they tunnel. Seems like it was the Survivors fault then if they spawn next to the Killer while having almost no Tunneling Protection. And since this could not have been done alone, they also gigabuffed her.
(In general, I feel that bringing 3 Killers in a row with a Mini Mori and a Killer who ignores Unhook-Perks just shows that the Devs dont care about tunneling)
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@Hoopme said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117166#Comment_4117166
First part I agree second part hard disagree blood favor is majorly unhealthy and problematic especially on Killers like Blight and Ghoul cause when you get it and proc the perk you can't get out of the pallet blocking range before they get to you and down you.
When ghoul released it was a major problem with blood favour and dissolution
IMO this is more an issue with the specific Killers in this case.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117157#Comment_4117157
Blood Favor, Dissolution, and Dead Man's Switch were all mentioned in the spanish blogpost.
And this is something which I then dont really understand.
Dissolution deserves a Nerf, no questions here. This Perk is so boring and unhealthy.
But Blood Favor is completely fine when it is not part of a full Hex-Build with TOTH. It is a good Perk, but it is a Hex-Perk, after all. Even if it is not so different from Dissolution when it comes to its function (making it unable to use Pallets), but as a Hex, I think this is fine. Not as a Hex which takes ages to cleanse, but as a regular Hex, no issues.
And DMS… Depends what they do. Might be a numbers nerf or might be something related to how it blocks Gens. E.g. by not blocking a Gen when a Survivor is not manually leaving it. But personally I think that DMS was fine as well.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117143#Comment_4117143
There's probably till a lot of buffs on survivor side that we don't know yet and nerfs on killer side.
The WoO and Five moves ahead change is to make them have separate identity and not windows overpowering five moves ahead, now it will actually be better as pallets are more useful than windows. Both are meta perks (windows is the most used perk in the game) and if you are good enough you will not need to use those perks and know the locations of pallets and windows.
Also it's Windows of opportunity, not pallets of opportunity.
But I guess since we are nerfing the most popular Survivor Perk (WoO), we will also nerf the most popular Killer Perk… right? right?? /s
As I said, there will be more buffs for survivor perks and maybe they haven't revealed important nerfs for killer perks, you can fully counter pain res with repressed alliance btw and it's very overrated imo.
The WoO and Five moves ahead change is to make them have separate identity and not windows overpowering five moves ahead, now it will actually be better as pallets are more useful than windows. Both are meta perks (windows is the most used perk in the game) and if you are good enough you will not need to use those perks and know the locations of pallets and windows.
I am neither using WoO or Five Moves ahead. But nerfing them just shows that BHVR once again listens to the loud people. Because the Perks are no issue at all. A bad Survivor with WoO will still be bad, you can tell the difference between an actual capable Survivor and a yellow aura gamer pretty easy.
Yet Killers act as if WoO is making them lose games.
I will wait for the full list of Perks, but I sure hope there are some Aura and Slowdown Perks on that list.
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@GroovieAshes said:
I hope the 58 Perk update puts Survivor back to a playable state but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
Oh my sweet summer child… Do you really think that? Survivor Meta Perks will get a bunch of Nerfs with some bones thrown at them. Similar to nerfing SB, Vigil and Deli while buffing Adrenaline a bit (which you might not even activate).
WoO will also be nerfed by only showing Windows while Five Moves ahead will be nerfed by only showing Pallets. So if you want the old effect you have to dedicate half your Perk Build for that. And both Perks are completely fine.
But I guess since we are nerfing the most popular Survivor Perk (WoO), we will also nerf the most popular Killer Perk… right? right?? /s
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117110#Comment_4117110
It appears the perk deactivates for everyone once it is used. Frankly I think is overkill. Changing Exposed to becoming Broken is fair, but I am against the idea of your perks deactivating due to the actions of other players.
Same. I dont really mind Shoulder the Burden, since I dont go against the Survivors who would make the Perk a problem (and neither do the majority of Killer players).
But I am really not a fan of Perks deactivating because someone else did something. Especially since this hurts SoloQ the most, since you dont know other peoples Perks before the game. And especially in SoloQ StB was already way weaker, since you could neither control that you are the person doing the Unhook nor control what the unhooked person is doing.
Meanwhile highly coordinated 4 man SWFs (the rare breed where StB is actually a problem) will still get huge value out of the Perk.
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Players who stand up from a Gen when the Killer has Pain Res and no Dead Mans Switch. The Gen will not be blocked and the Killer also does not get a direction from where the scream came from, yet they are wasting time. Bonus points when the Gen does not get completed because of that.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116890#Comment_4116890
“Probably half my survivor losses can be attributed to these stupid things” - wouldn’t that also be the case if these were in 1v4 mode, especially if you’re solo queue and not coordinating with teammates on comms?
From my understanding they meant that the current invocations should be able to be performed anywhere and not make broken, to make them actual useable Perks.
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I would not expect too much of a Meta Shake Up. They said that the Perk changes are mainly related to Diminishing Returns, so we will probably see Buffs to Perks which fell off with Diminishing Returns. Since those Perks were not really popular before Diminishing Returns, I dont expect them to be really useable after this.
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Basically every Killer who is balanced around a feature which makes them balanced in 1v4, but will get broken if you add another Killer.
Legion is the obvious one for that and we saw that it was a dumb idea to add them. Plague would be very similar. I would say Ghoul as well, since they can also get an easy first Hit. Plus him holding people in place would just mean that those can get smacked by the second Killer. Probably not the most efficient way of playing Killer, but certainly the most frustrating one to go against.
Then there are Killers like Pig or Onryo. Both have secondary, but mandatory once in play, objectives which are fine when only one Killer (who is not the strongest) is around. But if you have to get rid of a Beartrap or need to delivere a tape while a second Killer is around… I dont think this is really manageable.
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@TWS001 said:
I don't really know what else you can do to her now without completely redoing how she works.
The minority, either expert or highly experienced Nurses, will more than likely destroy you but the majority will either struggle or get flat out embarrassed depending on the map or what builds the survivors have nowadays against even a semi competent solo queue team. Thats why she has a low overall kill rate. Any more nerfs will just hurt all the mid to low level Nurses and drop her kill rate to an all time low.
You dont have to be an "expert" or "highly experienced" with her to do well. She is really not that hard to play, she has a steep learning curve and those are probably the worst games you will ever have as Killer, but after a few hours, you should be good enough to win the majority of your games with her.
Her low Killrate is mainly due to the fact that she is a free Killer and everyone trying her out will get completely destroyed. Plus many drop her quickly, since there is no need to learn Nurse nowadays. Back in the day when DBD was heavy survivor sided, you had to learn Nurse to compete, but this is just not the case anymore. (Sure, if you want to have the best chances to win, learning Nurse is still the way to go, but there is no need to go through all of the time to learn her, if you can just play Killers who can also win almost all of your games and which are learned in a way shorter time)