The new Dark Arrogance + STBFL combo feels like cheating, but somehow Vigil and WoO were a problem

https://x.com/Cinnastrophe/status/2099949902394519866

https://x.com/MintSkullYT/status/2099973797264634253

https://x.com/Procyondbd/status/2099915010143035477

https://x.com/snakez04/status/2099912101691052527

Even with diminishing returns, this combo is lethal and leaves survivors with zero counterplay in chase, making double-taps insanely effective, never mind the survivors' imperfect pathing in these clips—the speed boost is completely negligible compared to the weapon cooldown anyway, so the point still stands.

Honorable mention: check out that Doctor clip where you literally can't unhook a survivor—pretty good job, I'd say.

Comments

  • @Mortimer said:

    https://x.com/Cinnastrophe/status/2099949902394519866

    https://x.com/MintSkullYT/status/2099973797264634253

    https://x.com/Procyondbd/status/2099915010143035477

    Even with diminishing returns, this combo is lethal and leaves survivors with zero counterplay in chase, making double-taps insanely effective, never mind the survivors' imperfect pathing in these clips—the speed boost is completely negligible compared to the weapon cooldown anyway, so the point still stands.

    Honorable mention: check out that Doctor clip where you literally can't unhook a survivor—pretty good job, I'd say.

    Good combo for killers in chase, fine on my part. 2 less slowdowns.

  • Yeah, it is 52% basic attack recovery instead of 40% from stbfl, saves around 0,2 seconds

  • @Mortimer said:

    https://x.com/Cinnastrophe/status/2099949902394519866

    https://x.com/MintSkullYT/status/2099973797264634253

    https://x.com/Procyondbd/status/2099915010143035477

    Even with diminishing returns, this combo is lethal and leaves survivors with zero counterplay in chase, making double-taps insanely effective, never mind the survivors' imperfect pathing in these clips—the speed boost is completely negligible compared to the weapon cooldown anyway, so the point still stands.

    Honorable mention: check out that Doctor clip where you literally can't unhook a survivor—pretty good job, I'd say.

    the first two clips looked like they were against fresh installs the third is a better showing of it (even though you have to dedicate a build for the final one) and there is no doctor clip also i expect it to be nerfed but to answer your question yes vigil and woo needed to be nerfed vigil countered everything and stacked and woo was run to yellow pre drop extend chase till the killer outplayed you

  • @terumisan said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472392/the-new-dark-arrogance-stbfl-combo-feels-like-cheating-but-somehow-vigil-and-woo-were-a-problem

    the first two clips looked like they were against fresh installs the third is a better showing of it (even though you have to dedicate a build for the final one) and there is no doctor clip also i expect it to be nerfed but to answer your question yes vigil and woo needed to be nerfed vigil countered everything and stacked and woo was run to yellow pre drop extend chase till the killer outplayed you

    The last one.

  • Still seems allright to me. You lower your attack cooldown from 2.7s to 1.3s for price of 2-3 perk slots if you wanna manage keeping stacks by celestial witness.

  • @Elan said:

    Still seems allright to me. You lower your attack cooldown from 2.7s to 1.3s for price of 2-3 perk slots if you wanna manage keeping stacks by celestial witness.

    "Seems alright to me".

    Man you can't even unhook a teammate without getting double-tapped right in front of the hook, what are you talking about?

  • @Mortimer said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117898#Comment_4117898

    "Seems alright to me".

    Man you can't even unhook a teammate without getting double-tapped right in front of the hook, what are you talking about?

    Anti-camp exists, it probably will get nerfed by a bit anyway, but the just the vaulting speed is not a good enough bonus for the longer stun duration, it definitely needed a buff.

  • @Mortimer said:

    https://x.com/Cinnastrophe/status/2099949902394519866

    https://x.com/MintSkullYT/status/2099973797264634253

    https://x.com/Procyondbd/status/2099915010143035477

    https://x.com/snakez04/status/2099912101691052527

    Even with diminishing returns, this combo is lethal and leaves survivors with zero counterplay in chase, making double-taps insanely effective, never mind the survivors' imperfect pathing in these clips—the speed boost is completely negligible compared to the weapon cooldown anyway, so the point still stands.

    Honorable mention: check out that Doctor clip where you literally can't unhook a survivor—pretty good job, I'd say.

    Ive been able to counter it with overcome. Its been really helpful!

  • @SpyUA said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118029#Comment_4118029

    Anti-camp exists, it probably will get nerfed by a bit anyway, but the just the vaulting speed is not a good enough bonus for the longer stun duration, it definitely needed a buff.

    it's extremely common for killers to proxy camp, and especially prevalent for them to return to a hook when they know the stage timer is low, at that point anticamp doesn't matter, you are getting double tapped trying to unhook. a killer running this build would be aware they could do that too.

  • @SpyUA said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118029#Comment_4118029

    Anti-camp exists, it probably will get nerfed by a bit anyway, but the just the vaulting speed is not a good enough bonus for the longer stun duration, it definitely needed a buff.

    Anti-Camp is extremely generous, the Killer can be very close to the Hook and the Survivor will gain no Anti-Camp. It is guaranteed to interrupt the Unhook.

    Anti-Camp is slowed down dramatically with a Survivor nearby, so if the Killer starts chasing the Survivor who wants to go for the Unhook, no Anti-Camp is gained.

  • No, you see, we had to first eradicate any and all perks that would work at the expense of your useless survivor solo q team.

  • I really think they should revert STBFL back to 5% per hit and just make the perk not stack with others at all. It’s fine by itself but anytime another perk can stack with it, it becomes a problem.

  • Lets make killer queues longer and longer and longer ah energy

  • @Mortimer said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117898#Comment_4117898

    "Seems alright to me".

    Man you can't even unhook a teammate without getting double-tapped right in front of the hook, what are you talking about?

    This is something you could do with three different perks already.

  • So we're buffing proxy camping AND tunneling? Meet the new meta….same as the old meta…

  • yeah this needs to go and shouldn’t be a thing. Machine gunning was removed in the past because it was deemed problematic why on earth bhvr would bring it back now is beyond me.

    This is more busted than either sb + vigil or ftp + buckle up.

  • WHY DO KILLERS ONLY USE SLOWDOWN PERKS

    Oh.

  • Exactly the point. You will have to play safer but if killers dedicate their build towards two tapping you won't be facing same 5 slowdown perks over and over again.

  • >only applies to already weak M1 killers

    >the said weak killers cannot realistically afford to slot 2 chase perks over slowdown

    imagine not being able to hold a chase against a trapper, doctor, ghostface etc in 2026, you genuinely have to be terrible at this game.

  • Been down this road before, wasn't healthy for the game. Yet here we go again.

  • So the doctor thing is already live it only requires 4-5 stacks of STBFL. It's been one of the best things about STBFL since it got introduced.

    The clown build is the most egregious but again you can kinda already do this with STBFL + Rapid Brutality + Intoxicating a survivor right before you hit them.

    That said 1.2 second cooldown is probably a little egregious even if it takes a bit to achieve it. At the same time I love how much the new basic attack speed perk buffs helps weaker m1 killers so I don't want it just gone.

    Maybe something like Dark Arrogance only works on successful hits and pallets stuns up to 50% longer? Cuz yes the effect is strong enough to warrant that and you can always put on enduring. Alternatively BHVR is entirely capable of hard capping how much you can buff something like I'm pretty sure you can't get heal speed past 200% so maybe they could do that where basic attack recovery caps at 45 or 50%?

  • @Xendritch said:

    So the doctor thing is already live it only requires 4-5 stacks of STBFL. It's been one of the best things about STBFL since it got introduced.

    The clown build is the most egregious but again you can kinda already do this with STBFL + Rapid Brutality + Intoxicating a survivor right before you hit them.

    That said 1.2 second cooldown is probably a little egregious even if it takes a bit to achieve it. At the same time I love how much the new basic attack speed perk buffs helps weaker m1 killers so I don't want it just gone.

    Maybe something like Dark Arrogance only works on successful hits and pallets stuns up to 50% longer? Cuz yes the effect is strong enough to warrant that and you can always put on enduring. Alternatively BHVR is entirely capable of hard capping how much you can buff something like I'm pretty sure you can't get heal speed past 200% so maybe they could do that where basic attack recovery caps at 45 or 50%?

    Its almost like hard caps at problem values for buffs always made more sense than reworking every perk in the game around a contrived diminishing returns system...

  • Diminishing returns already reduces the value by 50%, so you probably end up with one perk and a half to achieve these results. Also you will lose stacks if you chase the obsession, so will need to win a 1v4 with one person having "immunity" against your build or you else you will be thrown half of your perks in the trash been.

    This feels the same as people claiming you can do a gen in 30s with the right perks, even though it requires so much setups that its almost impossible do to it in a match.

    Edit: the only concerning part is about denying any form of unhooking. This is something to be looked at with caution.

  • Probably sill a worse combo than either perk with rapid brutality.

  • Like others have pointed out, the first two clips is survivors playing badly and the fourth clip is literally just doctor with any form of attack recovery speed. Like sure in maybe the odd 1% of scenarios where this is better than just STBFL it can seem problematic but this is only really viable on the M1 killers which already are struggling.

  • @SpyUA said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118029#Comment_4118029

    Anti-camp exists, it probably will get nerfed by a bit anyway, but the just the vaulting speed is not a good enough bonus for the longer stun duration, it definitely needed a buff.

    so what youre saying is in the end game if dude gets a hook and he brought this perk combo he just gets a kill. no counterplay for us to get our guy off the hook cause its perma trading. right typical killer balance brain i can see.

  • @Mortimer said:

    https://x.com/Cinnastrophe/status/2099949902394519866

    https://x.com/MintSkullYT/status/2099973797264634253

    https://x.com/Procyondbd/status/2099915010143035477

    https://x.com/snakez04/status/2099912101691052527

    Even with diminishing returns, this combo is lethal and leaves survivors with zero counterplay in chase, making double-taps insanely effective, never mind the survivors' imperfect pathing in these clips—the speed boost is completely negligible compared to the weapon cooldown anyway, so the point still stands.

    Honorable mention: check out that Doctor clip where you literally can't unhook a survivor—pretty good job, I'd say.

    That first clip shows the survivor running around wasting their entire speed boost, and the second shows something that clown can do without it. What the hell are you on about?

  • slippery meats here to save the day

  • I think this is a good time to remind us all we could have had capped %'s instead of diminishing returns, but people wanted to stack haste.

    Would have prevented this, too. And still let the devs buff everything.