Should they consider removing Oni from 2v8?
I don't really like 2v8, but I played a couple games because my duo thinks it's fun (plus higher bloodpoint bonus). But every game was Oni. I'm not even exaggerating. You play 2v8 there's a really good chance you're gonna face Oni. He is just so good in 2v8 that players refuse to try someone else. This really contributes to the staleness of what used to be a fun mode.
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Yeah idk, I don't think they should just straight up remove him because the more killers the better, but they definitely need to nerf him. Most my games have been against Oni as well, and he essentially is always in power, which is crazy strong when you consider he's able to one shot even though Billy is not. I think they reduced the amount of blood orbs that spawn, but considering how many survivors are injured at any one time in 2v1, the amount of blood orbs really needs to be reduced more
The problem is that 2v8 removes onis entire weakness being the fact that he cannot get injuries easily, and you can't really fix that problems without making his orb gain basically nothing or outright removing him.
You could possibly make it so orbs only spawn in chase but that could be too severe.
Billy can 1 shot.
Although I don't have any specific information, I am happy to take this to the team as feedback. We consistently monitor the Killer side in 2v8, and that includes pick rates and kill rates. Is there anything additional you'd like me to share regarding facing the Oni that has not been enjoyable in games, such as with a certain Killer Class or partner?
I don’t think he should be completely removed but his curving ability while in his power definitely needs to be nerfed. He should not have infinite turn radius around all obstacles like he does now. Survivors need to at least have some counterplay using obstacles to try to counter his power.
Removed, no. Nerfed, yes. If Oni wasn't in power so often they would be fine. If Oni didn't have the buffed turning and movement speed they would be fine. As it stands they just lack realistic counterplay outside of SB on button press which is itself a problem in almost all other situations.
This will be the first time I do not take part in 2v8 and Oni is the main reason. Guy was in every damn match the last few times. The Nemesis zombies are obnoxious but Oni is just insufferable in this mode.
Oni is easy mode no skill which necessitates easy mode no skill tools like sprint burst in order to have a chance. Oni was always the problem in 2v8
Agree with the others on him needing additional changes to fit in 2v8. In power he's superior to Billy and the downside he'd normally have, the amount of time out of power, is almost non-existent.
All the time
They took away the teammate that gave blood charges. Nerfed the ability to fewer downs per window and we still get post like this.
Once a killer is marked as a pariah there is nothing you can do to satisfy the complainers.
Billy can't flick and get awful reading hits and then slugs.
For me it's just how easy he hits in power now, if they removed that control to how it used to be I don't think he'd be an issue.
Oni in 1v4 is balanced out by the fact you can coordinate and prevent him from getting his power early. in 2v8 its essentially inevitable he will hit multiple people dispositioned since coordination is near impossible with that quantity. ontop of that the 2nd killer gets hits causing survivors to just bleed orbs absolutely EVERYWHERE which in turn just gives him his power wayyy more than in 1v4. oni (specifically in his demon form, not m1 form of course) is one of the strongest powers to be in. being in it almost all game with a 2nd killer makes for a really difficulty scaled game.
Nemesis having 4 zombies is also probably something that should be re-evaluated but thats a whole new topic
Im pretty sure there's a max amount of blood orbs even in normal 1v4 meaning orbs despawn.
correct, however in 1v4 he will almost never reach the cap, in 2v8 he will basically always have the cap amount of points on the map at all times.
even in 1v4 the cap is enough to get his power 2.5x, im not sure if the cap is bigger in 2v8 but even if its not having 2 and a half powers on the map at all times is too much since it doesnt even factor in getting 45% per hit on a full health person- and theres twice as many people to hit
How is the map getting constantly filled with orbs if hes always in power though? Orbs dont spawn when hes in power.
I think the main reasons Oni is so oppressive in 2v8 is becaus
1. Survivors are constantly getting injured, whether from Oni or the other killer, and so Oni constantly has tons of blood orbs for his power and is in power 90% of the game
2. Oni is already difficult to play against in power in 1v4, however in 2v8 it's even harder. Not even necessarily because another killer could be around, even disregarding that he is much easier to play with the buffs to his power, and in addition I often see him using Shadow so he can barrel across the map, downing multiple survivors for free while his teammate mops up the kills.
Ideally there would be some way to address the blood orb spawns, as him being in power so often is the core of the issue. However, if there isn't a good way to change that, then nerfing some of his stats in power would be the next best thing
If hes in power 90% of the game, that means orbs arnt even spawning for 90% of the game. Is the game bugged in 2v8 or something?
Oni is the only killer I enjoy playing in that mode…
he immediately gets 45% of his power on a hit and has twice as many people on the map to hit. getting power off hist contributes as much as collecting blood off map.
so he doesnt need THAT many orbs to get his power, just a hit then suck up a few from someone the other killer already injured.
once he has his power he can just prock it, down the next and pick up saving most his power. then he can just suck up a a couple orbs sitting on the map and immediately have it again. its not just a factor of orbs on the map, theres multiple aspects in 2v8 that is causing him to power creep beyond expectation
As others have said he doesn't need to be removed but he should get some adjustments to his movement and how quickly he is able to get back his power.
So if hes getting most of his power constantly from HITS and not ORBS, why is the thread centered around the orbs then?
Players can't fathom the idea of an Oni player not only playing well but getting hits in and out of power. People will claim they don't want him removed, but will suggest nerfs that make him nigh unusable in a 2v8 enviroment.
I at least want complaints that make sense. People were saying before that Legion was feeding Oni orbs. They got rid of Legion, so now its somehow a mix between his teammate giving him orbs in the small period that orbs CAN spawn and the Oni landing normal M1 hits. Im not sure the people complaining about the orbs know the requirements on orbs and just assumed the place mustve been swimming in them. If the Oni is getting power because theres so many survivors out of place… Thats not really an Oni issue anymore.
I feel like that would just turn him into 1v4 Oni which would make him terrible in 2v8 since everyone will just pre drop the pallets that are 10 feet away from each other.
How much help is his teammate giving him when bloodorbs do not spawn at all while hes in power?
Orbs dont spawn while in power though so it sounds like your just getting your power mostly from those M1s. People are saying Oni is in power 90% of the time, meaning for 90% of the time...bleeding survivors arnt dropping orbs.
If hes in power, the orbs dont spawn. If hes in power 90% of the time like people are claiming, your teammate injuring ppl isn't helping supply orbs.
Old orbs meaning any orbs that were spawned in the 10% of the time hes not using his power. How much do you think hes filling his gauge from said old orbs vs from getting M1s on random ppl running around while healthy?
Im not saying you haven't, im just wondering how much of that is from sucking down orbs rather than the 45% gain you get from M1ing a healthy survivor. Hyperfocusing on orbs that arnt spawning for 90% of the game wouldn't help balance anything if hes getting his power from M1ing survivors who were looking at the wrong killer.
I feel like if you have a teammate reliably keeping half the team injured for you no matter WHO you play, thats gonna set you up for success. Thats not even unique to oni at that point.
But how many orbs are remaining on the map when he gains his power? Don't the orbs remain until he powers down, and then he can collect them all over again and go right back into power?
Yes, assuming he didnt use the orbs to go into his power then those orbs will still be present after hes done. Thats kind of the point though that new orbs can only spawn during that time frame when hes NOT in power. How much of his guage is getting filled from orbs that arnt spawning 90% of the time vs from the 45% gain he gets from M1ing a healthy survivor who might have been watching the other killer?
When ever I play oni in base 1v4, I can reliably be in power a good part of the match and still have a lot of orbs around. The reason for this is my M1 meeting the survivor not the orbs.
At this point I am going to be honest Oni and his orbs is not the problem in this scenario in my eyes, the problem is specifically the pool of survivors is so many that you will have a few survivors that feed him every match
The mode in general is hectic, so I can imagine people are getting plenty of hits either from survivors watching the other killer or from getting pincered while running from his teammate.
It is indeed hectic, but at the same time the amount of times I some how sneak up on people in 2v8 while my partner is way across the map just is wild
I know the classes can provide undetectable sometimes. You mightve gotten lucky.
remove him after adding any new killers.
Maybe I am repeating myself, but I suggesteded at the time Oni was added to 2v8 that if his teammate injures a Survivor that no blood orbs spawn from the injured survivor.
I got heavyly downvoted because 99% of players assured me that Oni was fine and Legion was the "only" reason why Oni is to strong and if we remove Legion, Oni would dissapear because he is useless.
Oni in 2v8 is an issue and he does need changes but I would make a real attempt at nerfing him first rather than taking him out. They did already increase the power consumption penalty when downing a survivor but that was pretty minor. I think the frequency at which he can get his power needs to be addressed, unlike in 1v4 you can't really deny his ability by not getting injured and that needs to be taken into account. I think his turning is problematic as well but that's not a 2v8 exclusive issue.
If, after he receives some additional changes he is still problematic, then it might be time to consider removing him, but I think it'd be premature at this stage without at least trying a round of meaningful nerfs.
I think he's fine, personally. Lots of people seem to feel he gets his power too consistently, so worst case they might decrease the orb frequency or something, but remove him? Not necessary imo
For this mode, stunning him should knock him out of blood fury, then it'd have more counterplay
We shouldnt forget how incredible weak he is out of power. If you reduce his time in power, he is useless. 2vs8 loops are so strong, that there is no chance that an Oni gets a hit alone.
So you could reduce his buffs for blood fury, but you shouldnt make him play a lot of m1.
He still needs to walk up to the orbs and colletc them and only sees them in 2v8 likke 12 meters away.
Also depends how fast he can down that makes difference in how much sauce he used from his power and also effects how fast he will charge it again.
People here are trying to play detective, wondering where the orbs are coming from. As if that changes anything.
Regardless, he's ALWAYS in power in 2v8, so maybe it's a bug or some other thing the devs did. It is problematic.
Where are you finding that they don’t spawn? Iirc, he just can’t see them, but they still spawn.
I at least want complaints that make sense. People were saying before that Legion was feeding Oni orbs.So this is an incorrect start on the history. Legion was a problem with multiple other killers, not just Oni. The issue was that his 'weakness', having to play M1 against injured survivors just disappeared. Legion could injure survivors very easily, and whoever the other killer was they could do the downs.
Legion was a problem with or without Oni in the game. This is likely going to be an ongoing issue in 2v8 that some killer designs likely synergize too well with having a teammate.
That takes us to Oni and the issues:
1: Having a partner, empowers him too easily. His weakness, like Legion's before, is his time as an M1 killer, but now he can have a partner who doesn't have to be an M1 killer.
2: 2v8 maps are crowded in comparison to 1v4. While there are a gazillion pallets, there's also survivors all over the place. Survivors can't just shift-W to pull Oni away because they are frequently going to run into other survivors or the other killer.
3: Survivors can't wait out his power like they can in 1v4. Even if we're talking an 8 man team on comms, rare enough as that would be, 2v8 is much more constant action than 1v4. There's always going to be at least one or two (and likely more) survivors in chase with the other killer, on hook, or downed.
Ditto for Legion. Knocking them out of power with a stun before they got up to speed was a huge part of their counter play in 2V8. There are endless pallets across the map in that mode but it still didn't matter to their haters and they were removed anyway.
I'm just so, so tired of calls to remove this thing or that thing from 2V8, when it's clear that absolutely everything in the mode is broken and overpowered. Oni isn't balanced in 2V8 but that's also true of pretty much everything else. That's the entire point of it. I've argued this since before Legion were removed but the community disagreed and here we are again asking for yet another Killer to be nerfed to the point that they'll be useless or boring to play as (or else removed entirely).
It's stale and lacking in variety as it is, we don't need to remove yet another Killer from the roster.
Mate they have already started on trying to get Nemesis gutted, won't be long before the only killers you can choose will be Trapper and Wraith.
They shouldnt spawn. But im confused that its not mentioned in the wiki.