JohnNemesisMan
JohnNemesisMan
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Just nerf escapist and think the game mode is fine.
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I'll admit not everyone was wholesome here, myself included, but at the very least everyone who came here did so in order to passionately discuss the game. It wasn't full of trolls, spam or whatever other problems other forums deal with for a shutdown, and specially not a lack of resources to maintain it. There is no reason for this.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118969#Comment_4118969
I don't think that's a bug. If you look at Dead by Queue periodically one random server will often have no queue for a few minutes. Maybe the servers are briefly booting people and restarting with fresh queues, or maybe they're funneling players to other servers to reduce the load briefly, but something is happening with the servers.
It was consistent. I am talking about, 5+ games of barely waiting a minute between them. Before I would get lobbies 5 minutes after, but I am talking about multiple instant 2v8 matches. It was like lobbying for 1v4 when it didn't have a lot of killer activity. If a lobby is freed due someone leaving, the next one should go in its place, which would still cause some wating, but given how fast it was, I don't think that's what's happening.
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The lobbies are bugged, I got a constant stream of instant 2v8 killer lobbies one after the other. I am still getting it since yesterday. Sometimes I wait 50 mins, but then I get a streak of free matches.
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I just got one lobby after 3 minutes of wait time. I thought PTB was affecting it, but something is messing it up causing it to be fast for whatever reason.
Edit: Just got over 5 games with less than a minute of wait time. I don't know what's going on or how is that even possible, but I am not going to complain. I just hope because that this is happening, someone else isn't stuck on the lobby for an hour or so. -
@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118477#Comment_4118477
Nightlight is bad data that doesn't match official data, nor can I go back to even verify what you are claiming and I am not going to pay nightlight or register with them or whatever I would have to do to see that data. Its unofficial, voluntary, and easily manipulated if a single bad actor chose to do so. It isn't trustworthy and never can be because of how the data is sourced.
Otz suggestion was also a basekit mechanic that's usage was hidden from the killer until they hooked the targeted survivor a third time and the hook stage wasn't transferred until that moment. His suggestion would also be to have perks activate as if it was a real hook on the other survivor, which is idiotic. Sure this person isn't tunneled out but the killer was just rewarded for taking the easiest chase they could, that is bad design. The immediate response would have just been, welp I guess it takes four hooks to tunnel someone instead of 3 and continue doing exactly that. Maybe they renamed the coming perk to match but even Otz has outright stated that he had nothing to do with the perk. This is just something that happens sometimes where two places have similar ideas at around the same time, it happens with movies all the time.
Sorry your experience was bad, that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the cast is affected by the pallet density update.
I feel for lower tiers I really do but that doesn't change the fact that I and everyone else have to face the high tiers far more often than the low tiers and the high tiers just don't care. Your platitudes mean nothing if you are going to keep pushing for survivor or pallet nerfs instead of rebalancing killer strengths to a more even level so that pallets can be more balanced for everyone. Identify the real problem and fix that first.
As I said, you are partially correct, a survivor cannot totally avoid looping but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to stealth first and waste the killers time that way before needing to loop, that has skill expression too. The problem is requiring every survivor to solely be good at looping and not accepting that some players simply won't be as good at memorizing map layouts, a perk slot is a fair trade off to let them stand a chance once they are found and doesn't stop them from being great at stealth, they are separate skills. I'm not asking them not to improve, I would love it if they would, but that takes a significant amount of time with the sheer number of maps and killers in the game. Plus some players are casuals that never will be good and that goes for both sides. However, its really only a problem for survivors because of matchmaking placing those casuals on their team. Killers cannot be negatively effected by bad teammates in 1v4. So long as matchmaking prioritizes speed over fair matches this is going to be something the game must account for, again many killers face a team with one bad survivor stomp because of that player and then label the whole team bad. If your goal is to push everyone but four man SWF out of survivor then keep moving in this direction, that is the logical outcome of the continued changes.
Gonna ignore a few things from your post not because I want to but to save us both from another wall of text, so I'll just answer the last paragraph.
Looping is just something you're expected to do, there's no better way of putting it. Unless you just joined the game, survivor should know that, yes, they will have to go around tiles to stall a killer as long as they can. Its not something they'll just be able to avoid always, they may be able to make the killer drop the chase, but its no guaranteed.
Yes, people will go down because of things like not knowing that Nemesis can extend his whip, or that Slinger can shoot through narrow gaps, Pyramid Head's ranged attack isn't cancelled if he's stunned. But there shouldn't be something tipping the scales to the survivor side because a teammate wasn't familiar with a chase. You can't ask to make the game to do something about teammates that could or not be bad other than more proper matching making, or ways for them to better understand the game more.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118451#Comment_4118451
BHVR doesn't provide enough stats to say how used any of these were outside of the top ten. These are claims with no evidence to back them up. You can still combine them, one just gets diminished. DMS was nerfed specifically because of its interaction with pain res, given another patch or two you may see it buffed because of the removal of that interaction. Thrill is a side grade in every situation other than the one where your hexes are instant cleansed but that is a problem with hexes themself, old thrill was problematic because a part of hex balance is them being cleansable and thrill made that near impossible on some killers, if you want to blame something for this its once again the strong killers that can easily defend their totems with thrill. Slowdown is slowdown it doesn't matter what form it takes, its still quad slowdown stacking.
Shoulder is the only significant change to tunneling survivor has gotten in a long time. It wasn't a mistake and was conceived before Otz made the video with the idea because of how long things take to develop in this game (at least it seems that way based on the timeframe for minor changes). Its strong if the killer is tunneling but then its doing exactly what it was designed to do, prevent tunneling. The only other scenario I have heard of it being strong that makes sense is the killer having two hooks on one survivor and them currently on hook, one on two others, and the fourth that shoulders with no hooks before the shoulder. Even then only at low gens where no one is going to fault the killer for taking someone out. If there are high gen count still up it sounds like the killer is rolling to victory shoulder or not. That scenario could easily be solved simply by making shoulder deactivate if the killer has a hook on at least three survivors. So tunneling or a single incredibly niche scenario that I cannot possibly see coming up often and easily resolved with a minor change.
Do you know what else is banned in many tournaments? Human Greed, This is Not Happening, Genetic Limits, Low Profile….. Compies ban things for a variety of reasons, are you going to claim any of those are strong perks because comp bans them? In shoulders case they ban it because they want to push gameplay to focus around a tunnel out. They could easily make other choices. Personally I think its an incredibly boring choice to make and makes some matches incredibly bland to watch.
The killers I see most often could not care in the slightest about a couple extra pallets. Maybe if those killers didn't exist you would have a point but they do and survivor must be balanced around facing them otherwise they become auto-win buttons. Some killer players might have additional issues with them but thats on them not the pallets. I personally have not noticed a significant difference unless I am playing a low tier like ghostface but as I already mentioned this is a ghostface vs blight problem first and a pallet problem second.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118457#Comment_4118457
You are entirely missing the point but partially correct. Looping is not a choice, IF you get found. The basic gameplay loop of survivor is get on a gen, killer approaches, respond in some way, most choose looping as their response because perks that promote any other way of responding have been nerfed to uselessness or have become unviable because of perks/addons on the killer side, particularly aura reading in the case of stealth.
If you are good enough at stealth and actually had perks to assist it could be possible to avoid the killer entirely or have ways of losing the killer and never need to loop based on stealth skill alone. I personally would find that incredibly boring but have friends that left post distortion nerf because it was their preferred playstyle. They enjoyed being in the spooky atmosphere doing gens under the killers nose but every patch solely pushes looping as the only option for survivors and nerfs all other tactics and we never get perks or items that innovate new options, killer gets new options every time a new killer is released. Give a player good at stealth shoulder the burden and they can even contribute a hook state without ever being found while still contributing to gen progress. This situation is what I am directly referring to as having heard people claim is rat behaviour, the most selfless act you can take of giving someone else your hook state while stealthing and doing gens → still a rat according to them.
If BHVR were more creative with perk design we could have even more options than just stealth or loop as the response to the killers approach but we just get the same perks with minor differences every time.
Saves and sabos are usually a waste of time against any killer not playing on auto-pilot and more likely to throw the match than waste the killers time.
"HVR doesn't provide enough stats to say how used any of these were outside of the top ten."
BHVR may not but Nightlight is a good reference for the popularity of perks and killers. Pop specially went from about 25% pick rate to about 5% around the 6.1.0. patch by the time the nerf dropped. Even if Nightlight doesn't account for the whole community, its a good enough indicator. You can also check the same thing happens to all the perks I mentioned. The moment the nerfs came, the usage in them dropped significantly. Unless you want to argue that they're lying about the stats, I don't see how else you can prove that nerfed Pop the Weasel was somehow in top 10 during its nerfed era.
And the perk has the name, and it is the way that it worked literally because of Otz. You know what he also said? That the perk was only meant to be activated once because the whole point of it was to prevent hard tunnelling at 5 gens. The perk can still do that, but now its no longer able to always force a 12 hook game. I never claimed being banned from comp automatically made every banned perk there strong, I just was claimed it wasn't useless you like you said.
"The killers I see most often could not care in the slightest about a couple extra pallets."
Sorry your experience was bad, that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the cast is affected by the pallet density update.
And let me elaborate on that, stealth is a risk. No matter how stealthy you are, there's a chance you get found. You could hide for the whole game, that could work, maybe even be useful for you team, but its not a guaranteed. Some killers are just better at spotting survivors like Doctor, Nemesis, Lich, etc. Or the player may even be used to dealing with hiding survivors by now. You're going to need to learn to loop more than you're going to need stealthing.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118451#Comment_4118451
You're still not understanding. It's the echo effect. Survivors are a group. They fail together. What hurts the many hurts all. I don't use these perks but I will still be touched by these nerfs. And the 5s BT cut was massive. That was already enough to make me drastically reduce my survivor time. This next blow is just making it worse.
Many things have and will hurt me as survivor going forward. All that's personally happened to me as killer over tthe last year is I got a new A tier main and the best perk on him was recently buffed. Again, I have zero incentive in recent months to play survivor.
That still doesn't mean survivors won't be able to perform well in-game. It just sounds like an excuse to pick on every nerf and claim it'll indirectly affect you because it may affect someone else. And when you say you don't use them, does that mean you were damaging your team by not using the meta perks when the others were in order to win? That's what you sound like.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118404#Comment_4118404
The most basic function of the game is sitting on a generator, not looping. Pushing looping as the only thing survivors are allowed to do (as we have begun seeing directly in the dev notes, straight from the mouths of killer content creators btw) dramatically hampers the possible tactics survivors could employ. Stealth hasn't been viable for ages and is becoming even less viable with the nerf to self preservation following in the footsteps of distortion. Why? Because killers demand the game handhold them over to their next chase instead of using game sense to identify likely locations a survivor will be and then use their own eyes to find them if they are hiding.
Some people will not be good at looping or memorizing map layouts, there is nothing wrong with that and they can still contribute to the team in meaningful ways. They can even contribute a hook state via shoulder without ever being in chase (somehow I have seen people claim this action is "rat" behavior which is a great showcase of how few ways these people think survivors should be allowed to interact with the game). If BHVR were more creative with their perk creation and stopped nerfing every other viable strategy to take on a killer we could (and really should) have other options than looping but killers demand that survivors loop and only loop while they themself can play however they damn well please, no matter how unfun it is for the survivor side, problem is BHVR is clearly willing to listen to killers on this and not survivors.
In order to help them with the area of the game they struggle with they are sacrificing one of their perk slots. That is a fair trade off. WoO has never caused me to lose a chase, it just allows someone to actually have one in the first place instead of running to nothing. This has never been a problem for me because I can deal with a real chase and don't need survivors to go down for free.
"Pushing looping as the only thing survivors are allowed to do (as we have begun seeing directly in the dev notes, straight from the mouths of killer content creators btw) dramatically hampers the possible tactics survivors could employ."
What?? Looping is not a choice a survivor can select whether he does or not. Looping is incentivized because it will eventually happen if the Killer finds the survivor, he's not going to drop chase because the survivor didn't feel like looping. A survivor HAS to at the very least be decent at looping because once a killer focuses on them, it'll be the only way they can effectively help the team, is by stalling the killer in the chase for everyone else to do gens. Rat behaviour is when someone constantly hides, taking no risks and doing nothing until they escape or get hatch.
And there are still ways of stalling killers aside looping, like going for sabos and saves, which at the same time also helps your team. But those will still require you to loop the killer, if the killer spots you before the save for example. It literally is the basic gameplay loop.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118402#Comment_4118402
Pain Res is the most used perk on killer because it is the strongest perk in a class of strong useful perks, not through some process of elimination or lack of options, those are lies pushed by killer biased content creators. If this class of perks wasn't strong it wouldn't be so common for killers to equip four of them. The last change to every perk you mentioned as nerfed was a buff. You are reaching back to 6.1 for most of these nerfs, four year ago. A patch that saw the introduction of basekit regression on kick and an increase to gen times, the perks were nerfed alongside those changes for obvious reasons.
Pallet density update went through multiple iterations, the final of which saw more pallets but reduction in the length of many and the nerfing of most main buildings. Claiming this was some universal survivor buff is ridiculous. Shoulder the Burden is a useless perk in most situations and one or two where its actually strong. Or we could be honest and just accept that the most complaints about shoulder are coming from tunnelers where shoulder is doing exactly what its supposed to and some people can't stand that. Do No Harm is outclassed by botany in most matches because you are not always healing someone with hook states and it doesn't work on yourself. Anytime we get perk usage stats if a healing perk shows up its always botany. Diminishing wasn't added because of Do No Harm, it was added because of a multitude of perks that stacked.
None of this was a major boost to survivor in any way. Pallet changes are harder on the lower tiers but that is a problem with the existence of the high tier characters, not survivor. Now we get this "meta shakeup" that will change some of the perks we see killers pick but primarily it will be swapping this piece of gen slowdown for an even stronger piece of gen slowdown while they still go for a tunnel out that has been made easier by numerous nerfs to anti-tunnel. Some survivors might change out their medkit for road life but quickly realize that a medkit is more consistent. Vault speed perks will be tried and then dropped as users realize how often they go on cooldown and how often the killers ping means they just don't work. This is why people are quitting, survivor hasn't changed in ages and this patch clearly shows how little thought they are willing to put towards the survivor role.
Nobody used nerfed Pop, nerfed Brine, nerfed Overcharge or nerfed Ruin due how little they did. They've been buffed out of uselessness but still in weaker states that they were compared to before. Overcharge and Call of Brine can no longer be combined due Diminishing Returns, while DMS has had multiple nerfs and now can no longer be combined with Pain Res. Thrill is getting nerfed, which affects Ruin because those two were often combined together. Quad slowdown was mostly had Corrupt and DMS in the mix because the perks that affected gens themselves weren't all that useful. Just because you don't agree with them, that doesn't mean it was creator propaganda.
Shoulder the Burden was a mistake. Otzdarva created every aspect of the perk before its inception, from the name to the yellow hook counters, yet was added with none of the downsides because Behavior didn't have any foresight in the Houndmaster update. If the perk was useless as you claim, it wouldn't have been banned in tournaments. Do No Harm was the straw that broke the camel's back due it being another healing perk when the healing meta going very strong.
Pallet density was absolutely a survivor boost, and I don't know what world you're playing unless the every killer you match against was Nurse, but almost every killer felt pallet density update and became one of the biggest talking points of the game.@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118402#Comment_4118402
Yeah both sides lose things but right now is mostly what we're talking about, and it's not as though people have been talking about how great and blissful survivor has been before this.
But, again, killer changes have smaller effects. Nothing bad has happened to killer in a global way in a very long time. Killer has had new strong killers released one after another. You could argue pallet density but that's another killer-specific issue. Pallet density has never even made me flinch as killer because I'm not playing Ghostface. Most killer issues can be solved by simply picking another of the over 40 killers. Basically nothing effects all killers unless they change 3-vault window blocking or bloodlust. Survivor has no such luxury.
"Most killer issues can be solved by simply picking another of the over 40 killers. Basically nothing effects all killers unless they change 3-vault window blocking or bloodlust. Survivor has no such luxury."
You're going to tell me that out of 150+ survivor perks in the game, you're out of options because Sprint Burst, Vigil and StB got nerfed? Mentioning bloodlust and 3-vault blocking also doesn't work. If these two mechanics were just outright removed, it would only affect the most bottom tier killers who literally cannot press M2 without sacrificing their chase like Trapper, Ghostface or Hag. They would got from bottom tier, to even more bottom. Pallet density was absolutely the most universal killer change of killer as of late and still affects a vast majority of the cast, including affecting Bloodlust too that you just talked about.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118239#Comment_4118239
Putting Sprint Burst Vigil on the weak link isn't going to make the weak link more skilled. If they suck, they suck. If Sprint Burst Vigil made a weak link survivor win the match then it was absolutely a crutch.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F4HHDHXTV7BJ/what.png
Are we for real "If using perks help you win a match they're crutches"
No, the whole deal wasn't that WoO made people win, is that people can't do the most basic function of the game that is looping the killer. Emphasis on HoodedWildKard's post:
"Bad enough I personally rely on windows to run a passable chase. But now I'm going to see a considerably larger portion of any random survivors I get matched with also being unable to run a consistently decent chase."
Literal definition of crutch. Not being able to do a basic gameplay without a perk.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118239#Comment_4118239
WoO was literally number #1 perk among everything else and used by everyone.
And so is Pain Res. Why does popularity get something nerfed? And if Pain Res was so terribly bad and nerfed it wouldn't be the unanimous winner. I run it too and it is good. People just pretend it isn't.
Survivors were eating good for a very long time.
Debatable. Medkit add-on nerfs, fog vials, fast track, cross examination, canceled anti-cheese, constant A tier killers. Survivor gets a lot of whacks. But I was personally eating good in both roles. Both are allowed to have toys. But there's no reason for me to spend time at the table whose plates are being taken away when I can just hang out at the buffet. There's more incentive now to play killer and less to play survivor. There's really no debating that. And no matter how much you may prefer a role I don't see how anyone can view that as good, especially when killer already has the long queues.
I don't pretend Pain Res is bad but I don't think its the perfect gen regression perk either. It was the best through a process of elimination for the longest time because all others sucked. I don't need to write a wall on this, its not the point.
As for the nerfs you mentioned, that was during BHVR's health update where they threw spaghetti on floor and begin slipping on it everyday. Shoulder the Burden was added, pallet density was added during time, Syringes got removed instead of rebalanced, Healing was its strongest due Do No Harm's released which later caused diminishing returns, Myers got turned into dashslop, Krasue was a balance nightmare, the game was in its buggiest state ever. That was just a bad time for everyone.
Regardless, yes, survivor was more affected than killer in this update, but that wasn't always the case for previous ones, and the update tackled perks that were unhealthy for the game. Saying only survivor ever lost stuff as the game continued updated is just ignorance, specially since you just constantly said the stuff killer did lose wasn't a big deal because you didn't feel like it was, then you call me selective.@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118227#Comment_4118227
Mentioning soloq and teammates in the same argument is a bit contradictory.
But this change will make soloq even less tolerable than it already is. Bad enough I personally rely on windows to run a passable chase. But now I'm going to see a considerably larger portion of any random survivors I get matched with also being unable to run a consistently decent chase. One weak survivor player can ruin a game. Hamstringing a large number of survivor players fron running chase isn't going to do anything good for gane balance.
You can't expect every player in the game to know tiles by heart.
He said he wouldn't want to play SoloQ due the recent perk nerfs, not me. Regardless, WoO isn't removed, just divided into two perks. Five Moves Ahead is still pretty good given it will show the closest five pallets with no distance limit until you drop the first one. By no means the perk is unusable, if you're having that much trouble, equip those two.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118227#Comment_4118227
Your argument is nonsensical. This is not a game you can carry a team in, having a single bad link is all it takes to tank the entire survivor team. Matchmaking doesn't work well enough for a match to consistently have everyone at the same skill level. Killers just win and then claim the entire team was bad and go on to claim there is rampant survivor skill issue, which is equally nonsensical to anyone that knows what a normal distribution is.
The moment matchmaking turns on killers and gives them a team better than them its instant "survivor sided" "crutches" and the rest of the crying comes out. The only question is which "crutch" you're going to complain about the next time you're not winning as many matches as you feel entitled to or which one "forces" you to tunnel.
Putting Sprint Burst Vigil on the weak link isn't going to make the weak link more skilled. If they suck, they suck. If Sprint Burst Vigil made a weak link survivor win the match then it was absolutely a crutch.
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118227#Comment_4118227
You're missing the point entirely. If I play with randoms who crutch then I pay for their lacking. That's how soloq works. I can be an amazing survivor but if I get matched with people who can't function without these perks I just get to be the one who dies last. And why should survivors have to "handle the meta shift" while the killer meta goes untouched. Make the bias make sense. Killers are crutching too. I crutch hard on my killer meta perks.
And it's not just the perks. It's the imbalanced nature of the changes, it's the 5s basekit nerf that buffs tunneling, and it's the endless stream of horribly designed killers with overstuffed kits. It's mostly bad things for survivor and mostly good things for killer. So why should I play survivor? I'm begging you to give me a good reason to play nerfed survivor against Jasons and Judgments over playing an A tier killer with a fully intact meta build.
I'll give you that, Jason and Judgement are bad design. Jason can at least be fixed with some nerfs to his Omnipresent Evil, but Judgement was a mistake from the get-go ever since they began shifting what people voted about her. Yes, I agree going against them currently suck.
But goddamn, StB and Vigil had to go. WoO was literally number #1 perk among everything else and used by everyone. But the game is in a comfortable position to do without those perks no matter how much into account you wanna put the bad teammates into the mix, because those will always exist.
And don't know how else I can put this point across because I have stated it many times already but killer did have negative meta shifts. Pain Res was popular for the longest time because due a lack of options. Pop was nerfed, Ruin got nerfed, Overbrine was nerfed, gen kick limit were still affecting all those other perks while hook protections were extended for a while. And that's not counting the 'Quality of Life' update of pallets that still affects multiple maps to this day. Survivors were eating good for a very long time. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118072#Comment_4118072
You literally just mentioned the perk that does the thing after saying it can't be done.
SB, Vigil, Deli last update. WoO, Five Moves, StB, and Stake Out plus the basekit BT nerf. That is a massive amount of nerfs, and every survivor is affected by the basekit. Not so for killers. I'm completely unaffected by anything on the killer side aside from one of my favorite perks getting needlessly buffed, yet I'll benefit from all these survivor nerfs with no downside for me as killer. On the flip side, NtH and DMS are getting relatively minor nerfs and that's it. Nurse's is meta and that was buffed. Coul is not meta and was nerfed but so was SP. Thrill is a rework and it remains to be seen how it goes. Totems being repeatedly blocked from being cleansed isn't neccessarily going to be a nerf.
The problem is how unbalanced this is because of the game being assym. Survivors are effected by their teammates, not just themsleves, so if I solo (which I may never do again) I now have to deal with 3 other people with a nerf to basekit, plus them probably being meta perk enjoyers who will likely be worsened by the loss. Survivor nerfs have an echo effect; killers are solitary. If your killers and your perks weren't touched then you're completely fine, but every survivor will be touched. That's the biggest problem with the sledge hammer method.
If you're thinking about never touching soloq again because the biggest crutches got nerfed and your teammates cannot handle the meta shift, it just makes it sound like you relied more on those perks than the people who actually used them.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118054#Comment_4118054
Bamboozle because this isn't about perk strength, it's about this person saying all the popular killer perks have received multiple nerfs which is simply not a true statement.
Okay you want to go back in time? There was a time you couldn't kick gens at all and could only damage through perks. Would you like to go back to that instead? Also, at the same time as the kick limit, regress through kicks went up from 2.5% to 5% and gen tapping was removed. Hook timers went up by 10s, yes, and so did gen times. The killer main memory is so very selective.
it would just throw balance back into the gutter once more
How? Killers are still going to run meta while survivor meta is getting dumpstered. It's not a shake up if it's just survivor getting nerfed in both perks and basekit while the killer meta remains almost fully intact plus gets cute new little updated perks to play with. But you know what I'll be running as killer on my A tier mains after this update? The same meta build I already do. You know what I'll be running as survivor if this goes through as is? Nothing, because I won't be playing it. More and more 50/50s are leaning towards killer because of how survivor just gets worse and worse. That is unhealthy for the game.
Except hook timers cannot be lowered unlike time gen time with multiple perks and toolboxes, the only perk that could do that was an unpopular Scourge Hook perk, and now that's gone too. Gen damage upon kicking were increased because gen regression time is still incredibly slow, and during that time, perks like Overcharge, Call of Brine and Ruin were all nerfed to being bottom of the barrel, and despite these three perks getting buffs, only Ruin ended up being used recently because Jason and Judgement could abuse Thrill of the Hunt along with it, which Thrill is thankfully getting nerfed too.
And what survivor meta got damaged with this update? Sprint Burst Vigil Shoulder no longer being viable to stack on SWFs? Yeah, that was totally healthy for the game. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117815#Comment_4117815
If you want to use previous nerfs of popular perks as an example, Iron Will used to have nothing to do with Exhaustion. DH and We'll Make It have been repeatedly nerfed. DS as well and is straight trash against strong killers. And the last thing to happen to Pop, Ruin, and Nurse's were buffs and those are meta.
while every single killer meta perk got nerfed several times
Bamboozle and Eruption have yet to ever be nerfed and Lethal has only ever been buffed.
Idk why it's so hard for people to say killers are eating good right now and survivors aren't. It's been nerf after nerf after nerf, with a dash of broken promises thrown in, in tandem with the release of an endless stream of strong killers. Fog vials, medkit add-ons, OtR, Babysitter, anti-tunnel, basekit BT nerf. Even new and reworked perks get immediately trashed. Fast Track, Cross Examination, and now Self-Preservation too. The vote for Aurora's perk was "a boon that grants permit gen progress" and they just went ahead and quietly overrode that. Even when survivors vote for something they don't get it.Eruption was indirectly nerfed thanks to the gen kick limit, its no longer infinite like it was before. I don't even know why throw Bamboozle into the crossfire, its one of the easiest perks to counterplay against unless you willingly vaulted into a deadzone. Pop goes the Weasel and Ruin were nerfed and useless for the longest time and only recently they were buffed but still in weaker states when compared to before.
Killer has had various direct and indirect nerfs overtime from basekit things like the gen kick limit, increased hook timers or anti-camp. Now that some survivor stuff got hit, with most of those being perks that should have never been added to begin with, like Shoulder, begging to have Pain Res thrown into oblivion when that perk already has a chance to not even get value in some matches isn't going to help the state of the game, it would just throw balance back into the gutter once more. Even right now, some killer perks are being affected due the whole 'basic' and 'special' interactions for no reason.
And Aurora wasn't the only one who had their stuff rewritten. Judgement's beam, exile and even Mori were not what everyone voted for, the beam became a sky beam, the exile can no longer be affected by the Judgement, and the Mori is wrong, not having the target torn in half after being burnt. -
@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117746#Comment_4117746
This has never happened to me
Happens consistently to me, priority queue is just broken and has the risk of never getting you to a game.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117637#Comment_4117637
I'm talking about recent perks but three of the killers you listed are still the top 10 if not top 5 strongest killers in the game. And the last thing to happen to Dracula was Warg's Fang becoming outrageously strong. Good Trickster players who hit their shots don't seem to consider the Trickster changes a nerf and the decay takes forever now.
Don't know if I would call Dissolution meta. Blood Favor is debatable too. DMS just lost a synergy. It still does the same thing. Nowhere to Hide is probably the only meta one to get a proper nerf. SB, Vigil, Deli, Windows, Five Moves were all hard meta. Vigil is dead and SB has almost disappeared from my matches. Windows is cooked. Killers also haven't lost anything basekit, unlike survivors.
Thrill doesn't look like a nerf to me at all. The rework will block totems from being cleansed repeatedly. It's a side grade if anything. It just isn't free value anymore. It's also technically a niche build perk. Did Pain Res, Pop, Grim, TBtC, Corrupt, Lethal or BBQ get nerfed? Nope. Nurse's is meta ans it got buffed for some reason.
What would you want those nerfs to do? Throw Blight from S to C tier? He became 4.4m/s, loses tokens on breaking pallets, two hugely requested changes that greatly reduce his power have been added. Drac still got nerfs to not only wolf form, but moving slowly when having his pillar ready which was never given a proper explanation on why it was nerfed. And it literally doesn't matter if someone still likes the Trickster or not? He went from being 4.6m/s and being able to get main event in 6-10 hits to being 4.4m/s and needing to work more for main event, that's just an objective nerf, no one's opinion is going to change that.
Dissolution was infamous for the killers that worked and a consistent pick on them, Ghoul and Krasue specifically who were at their strongest at the time. And this wasn't DMS's only nerf, it was reworked, nerfed, and now nerfed again. And Thrill is definitely a big change compared to before, totem cleansing with Thrill took too long and plenty of killers could abuse the extra time it took, now if a survivor is looping a killer correctly, the teammate cleansing no longer needs to spend such a long time doing it.
There were nerfs, but not every killer perk got nerfed just like every other survivor perk didn't get nerf. Lithe, Deja Vu, DS and DH are still very popular and untouched. Shoulder was the biggest case of gutting because the very existence of that perk was a mistake. Some employee in BHVR saw Otzdarva's video about tunneling suggestions, added into the game without any of the downsides and called it a day because they were too creatively bankrupt to think of a third perk for Taurie. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117603#Comment_4117603
So for the first time they decided to study the data on this old perk? It's just suddenly a problem now? You know what they did before when they found a perk was used by everyone? They made BT basekit. Now? They nerf.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117605#Comment_4117605
Funny how lopsided it is. Killer gets mostly buffs, survivor meta and basekit nerfed, and it's in a long line of recent nerfs like medkit add-ons, Fast Track, and Cross Examination. Surviviors get some gimmick reworks, but where are the killer meta nerfs in the quantity of the recent survivor ones?
"where are the killer meta nerfs in quantity of the recent survivor ones?"
You mean recently? Dracula got nerfed. Trickster got nerfed. Ghoul got nerfed. Blight got nerfed. If you mean Killer perks, DMS no longer combines with Pain Res. Dissolution now no longer synergies with killers who can damage survivors with an M2, no longer allowing combos like Ghoul or Krasue getting easy hits. Thrill of the Hunt is reworked, no longer allowing for the infamous totem builds that caused cleansing to take forever. -
I knooooooow it would be a balancing nightmare, buuuuuuut… Can you imagine 2 Slingers playing tug of war with a survivor? That would be REALLY funny if it was possible.
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"gun slinger with his gun but the plague isn’t allowed to be one of the killer options.. to say she’s OP.. when the ones above I’ve mentioned are OP.."
Are you seriously saying Slinger is just as bad as a hypothetical 2v8 Plague? Are you insane?
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Is it me or the priority queue isn't working either. I go play a few survivor matches as I'm waiting as killer, the estimated time lowers but the wait time still goes beyond it, not only that, it even sometimes goes over the original estimated time before I entered the priority queue.
Sometimes unreadying and readying fixes that and finds a match straight away after doing that, other times it resets the queue. Its been all over the place. -
Escapist is still not nerfed, so yes, they do want the mode ruined.
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I would like to see the Lich now that they reworked the chest system to work with multiple killers who use chest spawns, I think it would be fun for all sides. Survivors getting the Lich chest and items, having a duo Lich using his spells to help the other killer, and Lich players being able to enjoy the mode.
If they don't add him in the next 2v8 after they managing to rework the chest system, I don't know what they're doing.
My other picks I don't think other people wouldn't enjoy are Bubba, Knight, Trickster and Singularity. I'd say Unknown, but like Ghostface, the 2v8 environment would demolish him. More survivors means more of them would be able to disable his clones or use Sprintburst Escapist/Medic Instaheal to stall and wear out the UVX. -
@Arcturus said:
As the title says, what are your most hated perks? Or maybe what perks do you think are the most frustratingly designed?
For me playing as a survivor, my most hated perks are definitely Spirit Fury and Pentimento. Both take established game mechanics and counterplays and turn them into lose-lose scenarios for survivors, and I think that is awful game design.
As killer, it would probably Deliverance and DS. Deliverance is for a similar reason to Spirit Fury and Penti, where it actively punishes killers for hooking and especially for playing nicer and spreading hooks. With DS, I know it's necessary to be in the game but I hate how aggressively it's used and I hate being punished for "tunneling" when I have 6 hooks on other survivors.
Spirit Fury and Enduring are the lose-lose. Its so hard to get value out of Spirit Fury alone (except on maybe Myers), you HAVE to add Enduring if you want to be rewarded for using it. I would rather have the perk do something else entirely over it being so co-dependant on Enduring.
My least favourite killer perks to deal with is Weave Attunement. Franklin's Demise or not, survivors shouldn't be punished for deciding to mess around with items or chests.
Most hated survivor perk? Easily Boil Over. Survivors just run to the top of a main building and wait to go down there instead risking a chase and the killer is forced to leave them there. -
@Royval said:
ghoul should not count as he has to M1 you to down you 100% of the time.
I feel M1 killers should be separated in the fact whether the M2 can not only down a survivor, but also immediately assist in getting a hit during a chase. Which would mean killers like Ghoul, Singularity or Clown aren't treated in the same vein as Ghostface, Trapper or Hag.
Ghoul has to M1, yes, but he can also use his M2 to jump in front of a survivor and down them. If trapper were to ever press M2 during a chase, it will do nothing for him most of the time other than make the survivor drop that tile. -
@Brimp said:
Am I the only one who thinks this is just another nurse situation? People say "oh the killer is so hard" but in reality its one of those once you get the hang of it, it's quite easy. It's just the enjoyment that I have a problem with. Getting hits with the power is so convoluted that it doesn't feel good to play.
Every killer in DBD was designed to be dangerous upclose, hence the heartbeat. Judgement so far is the only killer who is less threatening because her power just doesn't work right if someone is near her. This would be solved if her ability to recall the beam into her direction thanks to her addon was basekit though.
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@Wyndsor said:
What was changed?
There's a desync between client side and server side, sometimes messing hug techs, delaying survivor grabs, but also causing a bug where Wesker's dash ends on the first bound, despite having a token left to use. Its like the bug where he drops a survivor when he successfully bounds them, but this time, without applying ouroboros. That's what I gathered from some Wesker players explaining it at least.
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We do not need more 4.4m/s killers.
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NetEase saw how much money Marvel Rivals making them and abandoned DBD Mobile faster than Krasue was abandoned by the players.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
Yet somehow we still have all-time high killer queue times. So there are more than enough people who seem to think the killer experience is fine in 2v8. The queue times say that we need to buff survivor side in 2v8 even more, not the other way around. Honestly we need to make the killer side less appealing than it is now to help address the insanely long queue times.
I don't think anything they ever do is going to change killer queue times anymore. There have been many experiments to lowering it like adding bots or making more survivor classes. Nothing worked. Right now Behavior knows there's a chance that no matter how much work they do in an attempt to lower lobby wait times, it may just not do anything.
At that point its just best to use the effort in improving the mode overall than going for something that has the possibility of backfiring like the bots. -
@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109010#Comment_4109010
So you can't actually come up with any logical reason as to why PWYW wouldn't have an effect on match quality or queue times. 👋
No argument award. Just don't go around blaming people who have nothing to do with the bad actors who actually damage the game or antagonizing QoL features.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109000#Comment_4109000
Okay. I get it. You like the PWYW feature. But that doesn't mean it's a good feature.
You've posted several times in this thread railing against people who are saying PWYW might be having negative effects but you haven't posted any valid defense of PWYW. Are you sure you're not arguing in bad faith?
Aside from keeping players occupied while they are stuck in a queue, is there any other benefit to PWYW?
Do you have any logical reason to believe PWYW is having no effect on match quality or killer queue times?
I am against going around saying that pwyw is bad because killer players are salty and use it to ruin survivor experience. That's just misleading and crossfires an argument into people who are just using it to play both roles as intended. I am not some pwyw defender, I just don't think people should reach and share the wrong conclusions antagonizes a group of people who just want to play the game.
"Aside from keeping players occupied while they are stuck in a queue, is there any other benefit to PWYW?"
You just answered yourself. pwyw was created to do exactly that, keep people busy as they wait their queue. It wasn't designed to do anything else more than that and neither it should.
"Do you have any logical reason to believe PWYW is having no effect on match quality or killer queue times?"
I just posted two times that all issues you pointed out pwyw was causing were things that already happened without the feature, and it wasn't anything new. Bad actors existed before pwyw was a thing, if anything, making the F2P for a limited amount of time allowed cheaters to go rabid. This is not a situation like that, its just a simple feature that lets someone who enjoys both roles play them seamlessly.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108987#Comment_4108987
I disagree. I believe both match quality and killer queue times are affected by this and I have presented evidence as to why. Yes, this stuff happened before but it was very rare and now it's more often because someone who is a killer main who wants to kill 7 minutes until their killer queue time is up is less likely to take the survivor match as seriously as they should.
You haven't said anything to prove why it wouldn't have an effect.
Whatever. You're clearly close-minded on this topic and think PWYW is an innocent little angel so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
"I disagree. I believe both match quality and killer queue times are affected by this and I have presented evidence as to why."
Your "evidence" is just pointing out things that happened way before the pwyw feature. It has no real correlation other than you pointing out possible bad actors who could be killer players because 'trust me bro'.
"Yes, this stuff happened before but it was very rare and now it's more often because someone who is a killer main who wants to kill 7 minutes until their killer queue time is up is less likely to take the survivor match as seriously as they should."
Rare? If it really were rare, the devs themselves wouldn't have to address the go-next problems by removing the option to die on hook. I don't know what to say other than don't think pwyw will bring about killer boogieman to ruin your matches disguised as survivors.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108731#Comment_4108731
If there's one thing I have seen in DbD, it's that if something is possible in DbD it happens in DbD. And if it is incentivized it happens a LOT.
I think the benefits of PWYW are questionable at best because completing matches quickly without escaping or helping your team is incentivized by "Complete Trials" quests and having a queue time of <10 minutes (worse if it's even shorter) also happen. Those are 2 incentives for a player to want a quick survivor match of DbD where they may decide to throw. So if you have a selfish player who doesn't care about anyone else's enjoyment of the match who decides to bring Slippery Meat or a luck offering and/or let the killer catch them without much resistance it's already bad for the match. It gets worse when malicious players do even worse things and we know malicious players exist in DbD, especially if their last killer match was them getting their behind handed to them by a SWF that they couldn't dodge because queue times are so long. It's not like there's any real punishment for this sort of thing.
Honestly I like the idea of the PWYW feature but the way it's currently implemented I can see how it makes matches worse and killer queue times longer at the same time.
But go ahead and call my argument bad faith too.
"I think the benefits of PWYW are questionable at best because completing matches quickly without escaping or helping your team is incentivized by "Complete Trials" quests and having a queue time of <10 minutes (worse if it's even shorter) also happen. […] So if you have a selfish player who doesn't care about anyone else's enjoyment of the match who decides to bring Slipp
ery Meat or a luck offering and/or let the killer catch them without much resistance it's already bad for the match."That has nothing to do with the pwyw feature, neither is it being enhanced by it. This sort of thing happened WAY before the system was ever in place. Its why the option to unhook the first state for free was removed to begin with, survivors using any means to throw away the match has been happening for years now and has nothing to do with the pwyw.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108871#Comment_4108871
Mine has never gone below 30, usually 31-40. Today I saw it reach 43 for the first time. And well said, I guess some want to wait 60 minutes to be in a Trial for 10-20 min.
I find it weird, because although the queue timer says 30+ minutes for me, I end up entering in less than that when I don't enter the pwyw feature and keep track of time. It was accurate before but I don't know what happened after that. This 2v8 has been the fastest killer queue for me since the first version for some reason, I don't know why though.
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Escapist buff was mistake. It was completely fine the way it worked before, now it pretty much demolishes any weaker killer in the mode with the press of a button. It is the strongest survivor tool in any game mode in history of this game.
At least Medic actually requires some coordination from another player and has a long cooldown. If the killer drops chase against the Escapist, in the next chase is already charged again. No, increasing the cooldown won't help, it needs to remove the on-demand aspect completely.
I just hope Behavior actually listens to the complains of Escapist instead of paying attention to the people begging about wanting Oni removed. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108720#Comment_4108720
Maybe look up what bad faith means.
How does that comparsion make sense? Who would they be ruining it for by being bad? If they're a duo they're the only ones suffering. Do survivors hate easy wins?
Its bad faith because what you're saying is deceptive and pushing the narrative that killer players are damaging the survivor experience even though there's absolutely no proof of this other than saying that matches felt worse after the pwyw feature came around. Just because some salty people post on this forum, that doesn't mean a majority of players are going to put on the sheep's clothing and try to ruin survivor experience as survivor.
And forgive me to not adding more context, I was specifically talking about killer duos in 2v8 since the mode is currently live and I forgot to mention it. There's no better comparison I can add to the team related problems on the killer side. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108639#Comment_4108639
Not sure how a theory can be in bad faith, nor do I know what my bad faith goal would be in this case, but there are mains just in this forum alone that vehemently hate the role they don't like. They treat the two sides like warring religions. We've even had some killer mains say they actively try to get their teammates killed when they play survivor and that they think it's funny. I see it in my killer matches too, people who are intentionally causing problems for no obvious reason, often resulting in whole teams giving up. Do I know they're killer mains? No. But I've simply seen more of it since the system came to 1v4. My last session had two of these people in different matches. If the killer queue is only five minutes you can easily troll for 10k blood points and be in your killer lobby faster. Free points and spreading some chaos is probably better to some than waiting. Acting like this community is full of angels who would never cause problems is just unrealistic.
"Do I know they're killer mains? No. But I've simply seen more of it since the system came to 1v4"
That literally is bad faith. Assuming that actions that happened after play while you wait are happening because of salty killer players when survivors sandbagging each other has existed for ages. That's like saying the horrible killer duos who don't know how to play are survivor mains in disguise trying to ruin the 2v8 killer experience, that's just not true.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108597#Comment_4108597
Am I seeing this right? Have you only ever played 7 hours of survivor across all 2v8 iterations? That is surprisingly low.
I have about the same ER as you for this iteration. Still having a bad time, and it's also lower than my norm of 50-60%.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108607#Comment_4108607
I think pwyw has done a lot of harm. I believe a lot of the bs I've seen in my matches can be attributed to farming killer mains who don't care about the survivor experience. It would explain the absolute uselessness of many of my 2v8 teammates, as well as the bizarre instances of immediate throwing and trolling I've had an increasing amount of in 1v4 since they added the feature. It's necessary for 2v8, I guess, but I'd like to see it gone from 1v4.
I think that's why BHVR went kind of crazy with the abandon options as a way to try and make that less awful without having to address core issues in the game.
Which is why I hate the feature. It's a get out of jail free card for BHVR. Why deal with issues when you can just let people leave for damn near anything?
I just thought that with the up coming survivor commands it would be funny if one of them was 'please don't give up, we still have a chance.'
God, this would be so bleak.
I think pwyw has done a lot of harm. I believe a lot of the bs I've seen in my matches can be attributed to farming killer mains who don't care about the survivor experience.
This just feels like bad faith argument. Killer players can't even try playing survivor without being accused that they're actively damaging the experience of other people. The whole priority queue doesn't even do anything, if someone were to enter a survivor match in the play while you wait, get themselves killed and move back to the lobby they still have to wait the same amount of time. If someone really only cares for playing killer, they'll just wait.
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They should just give the weaker killers their irie addons. Wesker gets the hydrogen bomb of a buff that is the third dash while Slinger's number buffs don't go above the 0.9 in amount. Pyramid Head recently got an addon that breaks pallets with his power, yet they're actively refusing giving that to him for a mode with infinite pallets.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107478#Comment_4107478
So if hes getting most of his power constantly from HITS and not ORBS, why is the thread centered around the orbs then?
Players can't fathom the idea of an Oni player not only playing well but getting hits in and out of power. People will claim they don't want him removed, but will suggest nerfs that make him nigh unusable in a 2v8 enviroment.
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For survivor, I only use Dwight, I grew used to his current voice, I never found any interest in using anyone else. BHVR said they would give him new voice lines, but I hope they don't change his current grunts and screams as they're perfect as it is.
For killer, I mess around with a bunch. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104846#Comment_4104846
I feel confident that if there's a killer that people can find a busted combo with they will quickly do so. Out of my 10 most played killers only 2 are in 2v8, so I already feel super limited in the mode. I'd be happy just having my favorite killers be present. I'd hate to have one I like added and then removed.
If Wesker and Oni are still in the mode, I doubt Clown would get banned, he's not impossible to nerf. Legion got removed because Behavior was too creatively bankrupt to think of a proper compromise for the killer, they would rather milk the mode by making the stupid cosmetics as the important part of the event instead new additions beyond killers they shove in there.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104843#Comment_4104843
I'd play him because I play him a bit anyway and most of my prefered killers are absent. Even when I duo killer I can't say we ever try to mesh our abilities. It ain't that serious. We're just playing the solo role together and that's fun enough. Killers are mostly buffed anyway.
I've never really found Escapist to be such a big issue, nor do I find it great to use myself. Most killers in 2v8 can catch up quick. It's more the comical amount of pallets that make it work. Clown would be another quick catcher uppper.
2v8 is the only time you ever get to play with other killers, no other game mode will ever offer that so I do take it a bit more seriously than all other game modes aside the main game. Playing it with my friends or even randos is some of the most fun I had in DBD, and understand its limited nature. Clown is one of the few killers with a power potential for synergy that doesn't destroy the mode (like Legion), and it just not doing anything to another killer would be a huge missed opportunity.
And Escapist sucks for some killers. You'll waste good chunk of time from a Wraith, Ghostface or about half the killer roster if they try to focus a chase on you. And if they drop the chase, Escapist recovers silent rush stupidly fast. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104828#Comment_4104828
I don't know if you remember when they made a tiny change to Clown's bottles and the community was in shambles. He quickly became one of the most braindead and hated killers in the game for a period. Haste and Hindered are powerful effects that walk a delicate line and the last thing we need is some CC figuring out what pairing would create another Legion/Oni situation. As it is getting hit with hindered and then double tapped would already be pretty unfun, so they'd have to be somewhat cautious with adding him, and that's probably why they haven't.
I remember because they made the haste instant from the moment Clown threw the bottle, that's why he was braindead. Even at its peak, Clown would nowhere close to how Legion was in 2v8.
Killer synergy is something this mode desperately needs, I don't know why anyone would want Clown in this mode if he wasn't able to share his effects with the other killers like how Ghostface can. Double teaming already leads to quick down anyway, at the very least it would even help weaker killers move around the giant maps more easily.
Let's not forget Escapist and Medic still exist and can basically deny hits regardless, Escapist would just press E and ignore the hindered or avoid a haste hit. While those classes exist and remain like they are now, I don't see any problem at Clown being to buff other killers. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104411#Comment_4104411
Clown is the one I really don't get why they haven't added. He's simple and doesn't even need much changed, just give him like two more bottles and make his haste clouds not affect the other killer.
Haste clouds not affecting the other killer would be the most 'no fun allowed' type of change. That'd be like making the other killer not able to down someone from Ghostface's expose.
What would be the problem even be? -
I would love to see Bubba, he's the killer I most looking forward to being in the mode. I know he has licensing issues, but I am sure BHVR could whip out something.
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@DanielPaint1 said:
You can't argue with survivors, they will always find a way to talk you down. "You can choose which Killer you want to play" wow how generous 🙏
Unironically this. Everyone who is saying addons should be random despite the fact the addon pool for killers is nowhere near as big as the perk poll. Not only that, some while some addons deliberately designed to make the game more difficult than if you were to be playing without any addons at all.
Its an unfair comparison because, aside No Mither A SINGLE PERK, no survivor perk is going make it worse than playing perkless survivor. Meanwhile the killer has much higher chances of getting something negative because the addon poll is smaller, and could either land on a meme perk, or a perk that by bad design, makes it more difficult than if you were to have NO perks at all.
I would rather pick a killer and be forced to play perkless than having the chance of rolling a perk that just ruins the power entirely. -
@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102635#Comment_4102635
Ghoul is technically a M1 killer btw
Erm, ackually, no. Ghoul's power can be used during a chase in order to secure a down. M1 killers are killers who whose M2 does not benefit them at all when chasing a survivor, like Trapper, Hag, Ghostface or Plague without the vomit boost. If you mean he's a killer who has to press M1 to get a down, then Singularity and Spirit are M1 killers.