JohnNemesisMan

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028025#Comment_4028025
Yes, there will always be players who will not be adept enough to practice higher skill playstyles, which begs the question why that would be a killer-specific disqualifier.
Because the killer side issue is viability, and the survivor side issue is enjoyability.
You can be a sufficiently incompetent killer to make any strategy non-viable, but no level of survivor competence is going to make tunnelling engaging.
And before anyone says 'I like taking the killer on a 5-gen chase', the three teammates that get stuck doing gens only don't.

Because the killer side issue is viability, and the survivor side issue is enjoyability.

This type of thinking is the exact reason why the new PTB changes suck. The changes they proposed came from the surveys related to the enjoyability had on the survivor side while killer is treated like some sort of NPC they have to balance around in order to perform for the survivors. The killer side wants viability because they want to have fun too and not get dumpstered for trying something out of the meta.

in What Would "Balancing For Hooks Not Kills" Actually Look Like? Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 14, 2025

@Philscooper said:
Kinda ironic how they neglect the chance to make people with large friend groups play 8 man swf, but they rather spam more into killer when the novelty of killer duo and already existing killer combos isnt enough

What do you mean? An 8 man SWF or just playing with a large group of friends in general was something they advertised and promoted since they ever brought up the first 2v8.

in "if u dont like 2v8 dont play" "2v8 is fine dont be a funpolice" THATS NOT WHY WE ARE COMPLAINING Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 13, 2025

@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028021#Comment_4028021
Its a pipedream because of
No matter what way you chose to modify it the people who die on the us vs them hill will be against it
The likely hood of there being enough to change the meta bring viable is low as many players on both sides have a low faith in the devs atm, steaming from way before recent patches.

The devs are 100% to blame to a lot of problems in the game currently, including the spread of the us vs them mentality caused by the neglect in certain aspects of the game.

But I don't think they're entirely oblivious to critique, since the most recent example of the devs doing something right was Myers' rework having recieved proper buffs after the PTB release when they could have absolutely just ignored him and left Myers with the super weak version Slaughtering Strike.

Chances are low they'll ever listen, but its the best way to promote positive change is to vocal about it in hopes word spread, like the time killer related items were given spawn priority over chests.

in What Would "Balancing For Hooks Not Kills" Actually Look Like? Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 13, 2025

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027989#Comment_4027989
A 15-20% repair speed penalty is just going to mean survivors get 15-20% less gen-work done in the time it takes the killer to tunnel someone out. It's not going to disincentivise tunnelling at all if it just straight up buffs the very self-same tactic.
The best way to get rid of tunneling is to make other playstyles viable.
The problem is that a sufficiently incompetent player can make every single playstyle non-viable, no matter how good it is, so 'making other playstyles viable' is a pipe-dream.

Why is it a pipe-dream? Bad players who refuse to improve shouldn't be accounted for balance changes. Effecient ways to win the game aside 5 gen hard-tunneling could push the game away from the boring meta it created and extend matches matches where everyone gets a chance to do something.

in What Would "Balancing For Hooks Not Kills" Actually Look Like? Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 13, 2025

@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026352#Comment_4026352
Thing is, losing with 0 hooks is virtually the same thing as losing while with every survivor at death hook.
This is the big issue. With kill-oriented stats, these are regarded the same way when they're very clearly not.
Similarly, one hook camped to death in EGC is regarded as higher skill than eight hooks, no kills.
Thematically, it makes no sense either. The killer is supposed to harvest dread and despair, but having three survivors never see hide nor hair of the killer is better regarded by the entity than a killer that drives them all to the edge.
Hook-based MMR might just fix a ton of problems.

I don't think a hook based MMR would do anything, people would still treat a 3-4k as a win and just go for that anyway because hard tunneling a survivor at 5 gens is the most efficient way to win the match. The only time a killer is actually rewarded for winning chases is when he actually gets to eliminate someone from the game, otherwise, he could be buffing survivors by activating their Dead Hard, Decisive or other perks that get buffed from being hooked.

in What Would "Balancing For Hooks Not Kills" Actually Look Like? Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 13, 2025

@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027782#Comment_4027782
Honestly after posting it I was still iffy with it.
Mainly wanted to promote discussion. Because jester had a good topic but you were the only one who responded.
If you'd like tho touch it up!

I feel the idea of a death hook mechanic is to help extend the game and encourage spreading hooks, so it shouldn't buff survivor's efficiency. Buffing survivors to make them stronger would do the opposite of extending the game, as having a death hooked survivor on the team would mean someone without death hook could take chase and the people with the bonus could speed gens, which in turn, would just make the killer want to get rid of the buffed survivor.

The only type of buffs a death hooked survivor should get are ones related to escaping the killer, similar to the unhook bonuses they did on the PTB.

As for killer bonuses for having a death hooked survivor on the team? It has to be something worth it as opposed to just eliminating the death hooked survivor, so something that could benefit every killer. Like getting faster bloodlust gain, an extended M1 lunge or even a minor 2-5% haste during chases like the Enforcer in 2v8.

I honestly don't know what killer could get without being crazy busted, but maybe there's an incentive to getting people to death hook. Devour Hope sort of toys with that idea by giving buffs with each stack, something like that could work without the instant kill, of course.

in What Would "Balancing For Hooks Not Kills" Actually Look Like? Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 13, 2025

@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/460232/what-would-balancing-for-hooks-not-kills-actually-look-like
Okay I have one answer following the restriction, and another that explains on the mmr side this first one is following the restriction.
So how would we balance the game itself?
Hook states having unique modifiers for survivors
Example 1)
Survivors first hook, you gain lets say Resolve 1
Resolve 1, gaves a buff to interaction speed, up to end game., this interaction speed focuses on healing, chests, Totem cleansing, and unhooks(to promote altruism a little)
Survivor second hook- Resolve 2, minor Gen speed bonus, your grunts of pain, or liller interactive powers are muffled extremely slightly
1 survivor dead, "Determined to survive " kicks in
Each survivor gains a third of what would a survivor helping you with an interaction from another survivor.
All of this last to endgame, or Hatch opens
Killer side Blood thirst
For each unique hook you gain a token, this token is 5% of basically brutal strength. So if every one is one hooked, 20% brutal, and it stays here.
For each fresh hook, they gain Entity's Delight, which is ether Pop, Pain Res, or Eruption (trying to figure out which is more healthy) for one time.
When a killer has hooked a survivor twice(Feng min on death hook) they can more them, but This will remove every effects you get from the benifits
Again these are ideas
Now lets talk about the why the current state balances off kills rather then hooks.
Survivors gain NOTHING from a death hook, so if a killer gets a survivor out its evident the kill is more important to the over all game then the hook states

The survivor bonuses you listed really don't make up for a basekit brutal or temporary bonuses. Giving death hook survivors more gen speed or make them overall more efficient would encourage tunnelling because its the exact type of thing killers don't want to deal with.

in What Would "Balancing For Hooks Not Kills" Actually Look Like? Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 12, 2025

@Skeleton23 said:
Please give ur Killer feedback on why would you uninstall the game and fill free to give experiences and Opinions.
This is a Judge free Zone and will be reported if a fight on Opinions begin. Please be respectful

I didn't uninstall the game but I have three general frustrations with the killer role. Killers can be over stimulating, or very high risk low reward. The recent pallet density changes made this very clear. Some of them have visual or gameplay bugs that haven't been fixed until this day.

Toxicity in general. Even if you disable endgame chat or leave immidiatly, they'll still try to contact you anyway to talk crap about your performance, I had to private my steam profile to stop getting hate comments after most matches.

And finally, the way the devs that handle the balance of this game often say very unprofessional things in most of their streams. I won't list names or go into details, but it has been very bad to see this game this terribly mismanaged and given multiple empty promises.

in Killer Feedback Q&A on Why Killers Uninstall the game Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 12, 2025

My biggest gripe is that they said they were doing multiple version of 2v8 in order to develop it for a full release, but since v2 they've changed almost nothing about it. Right now, v6 only added Pyramid Head and Dracula who is bugged. If it just continues like that, might as well add the mode permanently with the occasional addition of new killers every now or then instead of forcing a 2-3 month wait to bring nothing to the table.

"The best version of 2v8 yet" -October Community stream just before 2v8 v6's release

in 2v8... Should be a permanent game mode Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 12, 2025

@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027411#Comment_4027411
Yes, but you also forgot one half of the game, optimal killers. Two killers on discord mops the floor and survivors can't do their objectives.

Same goes for coordinated survivors. Even something minor like medic SWF duo running to injured survivors and healing mid chases can completely disrupt a killer's flow and deny much needed pressure.

in 2v8 Gen Speed is a Massive Problem Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 11, 2025

@Gibberish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027007#Comment_4027007
There will always be more demand for Survivors than Killers in 2v8 no matter how you balance it, simply because its the only game mode where Killers can play with another Killer, while in 2v8 survivor your basically just playing the game the same as you always do. Killer massively sucks in 2v8 but people still flock to it solely because there is no other way to play 2 killers.
You could literally make 2v8 Survivor twice as powerful as they already are and give them a 1000% Bloodpoint bonus, and the Killer queue would still be over-packed.

Exactly, specially with the play while you wait feature, there's more incentive to everyone try to both sides. There is no need to make one side stronger in hopes to deminish the queues of the other. Might as well give proper balance and content to both sides to make matches overall more fun.

in So are we removing sprint burst on command from 2v8 too? Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 10, 2025

@BlackRabies said:
Huge killer buffs for each survivor that is still alive AND on death hook after all gens are repaired.
1 survivor on death hook and alive killer gets %5 haste
2, survivors are exhausted for rest of game
3, survivors have their aura revealed to the killer for rest of game
4, survivors that are downed are immediately killed and sacrificed by the Entity. Same animation as if EGC time expired.
However if 2 survivors are already dead by then. Then nothing happens no bonuses for killer.
Everyone gets to play out the full match and it fits the lore of DBD. Entity wants drawn out matches not games that end in like 3 minutes. Killer becomes most dangerous during end game, survivors will panic the most and still have that bit of hope escaping. Though perks that work during the end game will have to have number changes or be reworked.

Making survivors exhausted forever or revealing their auras is far too strong, but I can get behind permanent Death Hook bonuses without needing endgame to trigger it. Maybe replace it with something more passive to the killer role like faster Bloodlust gain or quicker pallet breaking speed, even a minor haste boost like 2-3% too.

At the very least, the bonuses should be disabled if the death hooked survivor is downed to not encourage slugging.

in Solve the tunneling problem in one sentence Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 10, 2025

@100PercentBPMain said:
after so many iterations, it's time to rip off the bandaid and open the floodgates for a round; unlock all possible killers, and allow each side to take perks and addons. all in the name of science and research, of course.
I think we deserve it at this point. not because it'd be fun, I just wanna see the chaos for once. maybe 8 survivors with 4 perks would get people taking the survivor role more seriously. maybe I wanna see crowds of people burst into flames from Alucards Shield.
I'm sure that would give bhvr invaluable 2v8 data

As much we would want that, the biggest problem with adding that stuff to 2v8 is not that it would be difficult to balance, but it could quite literally break the game. Its possible a killer existing alongside another could cause an unintended bug, or even worse problems that makes the trial unplayable. This is basically what happened to Wesker when he was first added, in 2v8 v3 and v4 where he would softlock the game if his killer duo was stunned during his bound, causing him to never drop the survivor and force a DC.

So don't ever expect 2v8 to come with a huge update that adds more than 3 or 4 killers at a time, because with each version, they have to check what breaks the game or not. And its also why we will never see perks added into the gamemode.

in 2v8 needs more classes Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 10, 2025

@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026777#Comment_4026777
i mean if you gonna bring up things they removed or gutted,

herbs from the resident evil 2v8, fog-crystals or the fog-vials and guide class.
(or the older classes back in v1)

meanwhile killers new addition every new iteration while survivors get temporary things that wont even last long,
we get lucky if survivors get a class change which they love to do for some reason.

nobody asked from anyone for them to change and remove these things from survivor, besides legion

i kinda dont see how this even conflicts or make the good arguement of "survivors shouldnt get new classes"
or defending the "survivors qol is new content".

survivors are miserable to play since its just mostly a 1v4 copy with increased numbers, atleast killers get new stuff within just their kit, classes or being able to duo with a killer, liecensed killers aswell for free.

Herbs could be used by both Killer and Survivor, while Fog Crystals were replaced by Fog Vials. And while Guide class was nerfed compared to its first apperance, its still very good as it encourages teamplay between survivors to come to your gen to speed the process up.

Meanwhile the new killers that are added for the mode are not even all that strong for the context of 2v8, Dracula is actually bugged and doesn't work properly. The first two times Wesker was added into the game mode, he would softlock the game, forcing both killer and survivor to have to disconnect.

I am not saying survivors shouldn't get new classes, but Escapist having on demand sprint burst or Medic healing mid chase is WAY past a QoL.

in 2v8 Gen Speed is a Massive Problem Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 10, 2025

I am not sure about adding boons because it could have a weird snowball effect. A 4 -man boon team could essentially cover the entire map and easily replace boons whenever necessary, it would be specially powerful in RPD. This could lead to an entire team basically having every a mix of every single class in the game all at once.

I feel it would only be fair if killers could actually destroy survivor totems since they're not making any use out of it themselves.

in 2v8 needs more classes Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 10, 2025

@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026098#Comment_4026098
tbf old Dead Hard is nowhere near on the level as on sprint burst activation, I still think the distance gained from dead hard was way overblown and comparable to Dramaturgy more than anything.

It was the invuln that was the issue, and with the map nerfs (when the pallet changes are reverted), I feel it really wouldn't be a huge issue anymore. with current pallet counts, not so much.

Compared to Dead Hard's history in 1v4, sure. But in the context of 2v8, its Dead Hard 2.0 that will just deny a killer from getting a proper hit.

It will save you 90% of the situations, specially when the 2 killers are nearby. The only killers who can mindgame and punish a survivor for using the Sprint Burst is Blight or Nurse, while everyone else gets absolutely ######### by pressing the funny button once you notice the killer is about to get the hit.

in So are we removing sprint burst on command from 2v8 too? Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 10, 2025

@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026777#Comment_4026777
Agreed. Well written.
It's pretty insulting imo, the fact devs are now removing killers from the mode after constant nerfs. Probably because they are operating without an actual plan for balance, which is even more egregious. It's the equivalent of them shooting wildly in the dark, hoping to hit anything that will help reduce queue times. It's not working; it's time for a new approach. Even when the balance is tilted in surv favor for 2v8, the classes give them super powers, and it still isn't enough to bring the wait times down. And yet again its still somehow the killer's fault so they get punished and their fun stuff taken away.
Here's an anecdote. My buddy and I were playing a round of PH and Neme yesterday, and even with the best start it still came down to the last gen. Felt like we had to sprint the entire game and always be in chase, try to keep chases as short as possible, and immediately start new ones after hooking, and there was absolutely no room to miss your power it felt like. It felt like we had to be near perfect in so many different areas and even with that strong performance, it came down to every second counting. Who likes waiting 20-30 minutes in queue for a match that lasts 5 to 7 minutes?

I don't mind the game mode being in the survivor's favor, but they have been treating killer like trash. The most insulting part was them nerfing Shadow and removing Legion in the same update, while giga buffing Escapist and keeping the ability for Medics heal mid chase. Not only that, Withered Isle is still bugged with fog, making it much easier for survivors to hide. This bug was in the prior 2v8 and it still is in the mode.

And even then, ALL of this wouldn't matter if it wasn't for the fact of an absolute lack of mechanics for the Killer side. The classes offer absolutely nothing for most killers.

in 2v8 Gen Speed is a Massive Problem Comment by JohnNemesisMan November 10, 2025

@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026651#Comment_4026651
"The first 2v8 didn't have the overpowered survivor classes AND there was no way to save a downed survivor, yet queue times then were as long as it is right now."
You forgot the 2nd iteration where its the only time we got actual new content and not just a quirky side objective nobody cared,
it decreased queue times and made survivor mains actually bother playing survivor to try out the new classes.
Now all we got was qol, which wont make anyone play the game, legion shouldnt have been added in the first place and instead make more classes unique to 2v8.
If they bug-fixed killers, you wouldnt say "oh they got new content" its just made killers playable. Thats not the same thing.

It still doesn't change the fact that the killer role has only lost content. First they lost the unique killer coop powers from the first 2v8. Then out of the 4 classes, Shadow was the most fun one and it got nerfed. And finally they removed a killer from the roster. All this while giving survivor the strongest tools they ever got in any game mode like mid chase healing or rebuilding pallets.

And as all of that was happening, queue times never got better. Its been a whole year since 2v8 v2. Making killer miserable won't help queue times as clearly shown from the lackluster updates.