chknTM
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069199#Comment_4069199
Yeah. Basically what they plan to do is to make the cameras more impactful for Survivors to use (since nobody is interacting with them currently) and give him Buffs to compensate. They did not say what those Buffs include.
Personally I would like to see changes to his Doors for Survivors. That being an Instadown if he grabs you in them makes Survivors not use them at all, meaning that it also never happens that he grabs someone. I can probably go for dozen of games on him and still not have the achievement for it. So making it less punishing for Survivor to go through there would allow Springtrap to get more value out of it and maybe make the mechanic in general more interesting.
The Doors are 'risky' but the risk is quite managable, if you have a 3 second gap on Springtrap you can use them for free, and if u get a pallet stun into an exhaustion perk its pretty easy to make that distance, you enter Doors twice as fast as the Killer and teleport a little slower, but its already extremely free to use when u know his Location as he cant always reach a door within 3 Seconds, and takes 2 Seconds to enter a door just from the animation.
And the 'instant down' risk is pretty small if you are already injured, so a free crossmap TP is huge. -
@Emeal said:
I play Springtrap alot and find games quite easy enough already. Once you learn the axe is all over.
Idd hate to see him become easier.Because the problem with Survivors not using his counterplay is not that Springtrap is too weak imo.
its that it does nothing to hinder him at all than reveal him.Therefore I hope hope hope that you will not just buff springtrap to force the counterplay, but buff the counterplay.
The Counterplay is already really strong, if they buff it any further it would just make Springtrap go from B- tier to C or lower.
The best approach is to simply give Springtrap benefits if Survivors ignore his Cameras, and he loses said benefits back to his current state if they do interact with it. -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
Looking at all the various recent perks you have just made and forgotten:
-Apocalyptic Ingenuity (it shouldn't take 2 chests for a awful pallet, there is 3 or 4 chests split between 4 people like hello?)
-Last Stand (90s for one use, when it could have been like 40 seconds or so for an exhaustion perk??? that way it couldn't be used with lithe etc)
-Bada Bada boom (Should blow up near the window so it actually works on killers who avoid vaulting coz of their power like THE FIRST who it RELEASED with)
-Invocations
-Head on (for the love of all that's the entity light the locker up to others when they are in radius so its better in solo Q)
-Moment of Glory (2 chests is way too much, stop with the 2 chests requirement when there is 3 or so chests in a trial)
-Clean Break (it shouldn't require you to be healed by another person to activate it, that's just counter intuitive)
-Better than new (diminishing returns kill this perk)
-Mirrored Illusion (It shouldn't be so obvious its an illusion to the killer, or make it do something more than just do nothing to the killer if they hit it but not if they walk into it)
-Bardic inspiration/one two three four take way too long to set up
Idk the list can go on and on, and you kind of just leave off meta picks to rot.
Also please add more if you can think of more, killer perks are also welcome I didn't make a list of them because I struggle to think of recent ones off the top of my headProbably the same Reason until Stranger Things chapter 2 we hadnt gotten a single good Killer perk in years, and stuff like Haywire released in a useless state after being spawncamped with nerfs, BHVR rarely Buffs bad perks.
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@BongoBoys said:
The two final forms for the deity killer has been revealed and voting will be open tomorrow which one will you be voting for?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3L38MCGLZNZV/20260226-125928.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EUP03N7BMQSA/20260226-125931.jpg
I'm voting for the first one.
Personally dont like either of them, im happy for those who do but the last 3 votes just made them less interesting to me, the face/humanoid shape just make them too human and understandable rather than a otherworldly being, which was the theme.
Its like a mob vote minecraft situation where by design, if a vote wins with 30% that leaves 70% of the community unhappy i guess, i feel the Killer path shouldve had more revotes between the 2 most voted options. -
@CrypticGirl said:
Sure, we've already gotten the tunneling and slugging reduction scrapped, so let's treat the Survivors even worse. That'll make everything better.
^ Sarcasm
Yes cause when i queue up and my teammate disconnects on first hook that improves everyones experience, and in fact is the Killers fault, and not the person on my team who clearly lacks the mental maturity to play the match they queued for.
^ Sarcasm -
@Rogue11 said:
"Your fun isnt my responsibility....why are survivors quitting?"
Some of yall tryna present DCing as a US Vs Them issue, so lame.
When someone decides to DC it screws over the other 3 survivors more than it does the Killer, DCing is sucking the life out of the game, and is clearly one of the biggest issues running rampant right now.
Its really telling when people get defensive when DCing is called out, shows how rotten the playerbase is, people only care for their own experience after queueing for a team game and screwing over their entire team.
The Killer can play perkless, addonless trapper and not slug, 12 hook, and you will still get someone DCing cause they walked into a trap, and then all 4 other players just had their match ruined, its just lame and a real shame BHVR is yet to address it. -
@JesusWept said:
Like buffing Ghostface for example?
I think Ghostface could 100% use major buffs, he is one of the weakest Killers ingame, after the Myers rework he is basically a MUCH weaker Myers in every way.
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@yato said:
Dead Devs, i mean, Spirit has 4.4m/s of movement speed and with her power reach 7.04 m/s and can't see the survivors and got nerfed, while blight has 4.6m/s and with his power reach 9.2 m/s and can see the survivors… you think this is balance? GG
No one knows, BHVR seems adamant to want to keep Blight and Nurse overpowered, even though they then balance around that instead of fixing this issue in the first place, having under 10% of the Killer roster make the experience worse for anyone who just plays average or low tier killers sucks.
I would gladly take Blight and Nurse nerfs cause it means we can have better Killer Perks and stop using them as an excuse for Killers being strong, when only about 10% MAYBE 20% of Killers are truly Strong. -
1 - Uninteractive/Overtuned Survivor Perks/Items/Add-ons. Vigil as a Perk existing screws over all Status Effect Killer Perks, and by itself also Buffs the existing Exhaustion Meta ontop of that, Toolboxes and BNPs existing, Deliverance and Luck-Stacking are unhealthy as they punish spreading hooks, Sabo, Flashlights, and a lot of other perks force you to Slug.
2 - Taking Years for Minimal Improvements to Killers that need it, like Add-on Passes or Minor buffs, bug fixes, i think 90% of the Killer Roster could be massively improved with minimal attention from the Devs.
3 - Toxicity and normalized Bullying in Endgame Chat, with all the statistics BHVR has they should know how much toxicity there exists, but its largely ignored, even Validated or Encouraged by making them feel righteous to mistreat another Player simply cause of how they played the game, especially in the 1v4 environment where 4 people can gang up on the opposite side of 1 person, most of the time even when they win, this adds to the Killer Anxiety a lot of people struggle with.
Killer Anxiety, struggling through a full match to be met with 'Colourful' words is real demotivating, you feel Pressured to Perform well, and regardless of your performance you are likely to face some scrutiny in Endgame chat, 'You Tunneled' (Even if you Didn't) 'You Slugged' (Even if they Forced you to) 'Overpowered, no-skill Killer' (Regardless of what Killer you play), or using your P100 as a way to insult you, like 'Wow you are P100 and lost?' (Cause if you P100 Trapper that means you can now only 4k with him, or face insults, cause u can not be any less than perfect, and you must play by their rules.)
Overall as a Community we need to do better.
4 - Balancing the game around Top 10% Killers, and the other 90% of Killers simply get the Short end of the stick, cause Blight and Nurse are problematic, just nerf them, its stupid to work around the issue instead of solving it, could make Nurse unable to see Aura while hovering/using Power, and make Blight lose Tokens when breaking Pallets, just some ideas.
5 - Disconnects nearly every match, you can disconnect so many times before a penalty, and even if you get the penalty it starts at like 5 minutes, it Screws over both the rest of the Survivors, and the Killer who has to clean up after everyone cause they cant Abandon unless all 4 Survivors DC.
6 - Constant Bugs, Mindbreaker was Bugged, basically did nothing, so you update to 'Fix' Mindbreaker and now it gives infinite Exhaustion and you Killswitch it cause of your own failed Bugfix, and then its been Killswitched for over a month now, and Knight had Bugfixes in the PtB which didn't FIX anything and only made him MORE bugged.
7 - Double Standards on Efficient playstyles. ('Genrushing' is just being Gen-Efficient, which is the Survivor Objective, 'Tunneling' is just being Kill-Efficient, which is the Killer objective, no one is Evil or Toxic for doing either.)
8 - Ignorant and Tone-deaf responses. (The Recent PtBs, Streams and stuff like the 'Streetwise' situation)
9 - Objectively Terrible Surveys recently.
The fact this post got so many downvotes is another example of why this Community is in such a terrible spot, probably due to BHVR validating the Us vs Them stuff lately, i just don't see how someone sees this Post and feels the need to downvote it.
The Recent PtBs and Delays are a massive waste of resources cause nothing has improved cause of it, the PtB is a complete miss, Blight/Nurse will still be Strong, SWFs will be stronger, Solo Queue barely improved, and the other 90% of Killers experience will be terrible.
Its not complicated, Nerf the strongest Killers (Blight / Nurse mainly), improve the Solo Queue experience (Chat-Wheel, Teammate Perks Visible), then balance the game from there, you can then nerf the busted Survivor stuff, and buff Mid Tier and Lower Killers.
As someone who does not play strong Killers and plays Solo Queue on Surv, the future seems very grim, the PtB changes fail on all fronts, i have not uninstalled, but i have already finished the Rift, so for the next couple months i probably wont boot it up, with the current game direction i lack the motivation to actively play. -
@Memesis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028314#Comment_4028314
What I was referring to there is that you want there to be a set of changes that make power outages occur more often (and even occur entirely without survivors using the doors at all) and apply a new effect that is quite negative to the survivors. This would make using the doors worse to interface with. Survivors would probably never interact with the doors, despite the killer gaining undetectable over time. Springtrap already has lengthy undetectable that survivors are used to it by now and he makes loud clanking footstep sounds to balance this out.
There's really no easy solution so I see why his power ended up the way it is. If you implement a system to force survivors to use the doors, they will hate it. Currently the doors are not required to use them, and as a consequence Springtrap can get decent value from his undetectable as he pleases. I think it's a happy medium. The power limit is probably there only as a means to prevent wall hack abuse. I mean, there's a reason everyone loves the guy, his design is just that good. I just wouldn't want something fixed that really isn't broken. Again, aside from some nice qol points you brought up.
They don't really occur more often, its more that they occur, at all, and even if it does, it does nothing, but i reduced all the other drains by a lot, as for the passive drain its at the same rate that Oni gains blood passively, which is also 0.2 charges per second out of 100, but its too slow to matter, but in this sense its slower, but also inevitable, so its more about battery efficiency and not overusing it.
But i wont claim the numbers are well tuned, as its more of a concept or idea, i can't test this in a game setting as its simply something i thought up, and the entire Power Outage mechanic is only involving the doors, as i mostly want it for the thematic/immersive effect rather than making him stronger in anyway outside of buffing the Doors temporarily, if you are in a chase and a Power Outage happens you wouldn't really benefit much, unless you down them within the minute or simply drop chase to try and make a play, it also makes axing Cameras a bit less of a meme, cause currently if u are being revealed in a chase, you never waste your entire power to disable a camera, cause that just gives the person you are chasing so much free distance and time.
Currently 2 Survivors on Cams = Full Drain in 11-12 Seconds. Cause Every Camera is -7c/s, and you regen +5c/s, so 2 Cameras = -9c/s meaning -99c at 11s.
If it was -1c/s per cam + -0.2c/s it would be -2.2c/s with 2 cams active, meaning it would take 45-46 seconds.
Seeing as it could take 4-6s to reveal him, but it could also take a bit longer, every minute and 10-30s you would need to spend maybe 5-15s of Battery, which is -1.2c/s meaning —6c/18c / 30-90s + 60-90s of match time every 30s is -6 Charges/100, so like -36/100 on the higher end of time and like -18/100 on the lower end, there's so many variables and stuff.
Could even make it so it drains a bit when you Reveal Springtrap, instead of the passive drain with Cameras open, even if its a bit less game accurate, just an idea.
The numbers could be anything, it could be half of what i posted, 30s Power Outages, like -0.1 c/s passively, -0.5 c/s per Camera, and -5c when Doors are used to teleport by Survivors, but its just an idea and i cant really fine tune it from concept to gameplay, like you gotta remember there are 4 Survivors, 1 of them taking like 10s to Reveal Springtrap every minute or so, and how long the average time till a Power Outage is, how many Power Outages happen in a match on average, are Power Outages too long, can't really test any of that for an idea that exists only in concept.
Regardless the concept is just an idea to incorporate the Batteries/Cameras into his gameplay a bit more, on top of making it more game accurate.
Overall the mechanics and interactions could synergize and function together in gameplay a lot better, there is so much potential with the Doors.
And as for the 2nd part of your post
I disagree that there is not an easy solution to the Doors, somewhat, maybe not EASY, but there is room for improvement, i mean every other Killer Objective is an example of the Carrot and Stick, add a Stick and people will interact more with them, Cameras are not necessarily a Bad carrot, and they're fun to use, but the average player will pick the Path of Least Resistance and simply sit on gens, maybe use a Door after that Gen to get to the next Gen if a survivor is being chased to gain bonus gen efficiency, and that's the depth of that interactivity, i think the Doors aren't fun just cause they are optional, but because they are the only and first Killer Objective more complicated than Hold Button on Object or Hold Button on Item.
The Battery Limit also currently does not prevent infinite camera revealing, as i stated in last message, cause you will never run out of power when u can just close cams for a few seconds after every reveal and it will regenerate faster than you can drain it.
But genuinely speaking i am not expecting much, nearing 6 months with no changes, i just hope they improve the Grab (M2 grab please) at the very least wish that was consistent, some add-on reworks and changes would be nice as well (Remnant bad) this Post is mostly just me throwing a ton of darts (Ideas) and hoping some land, personally think his Chase is mostly fine but the Doors could use the most changes.
Glad to hear opinions on it though ty. -
@Memesis said:
I wouldn't hate some buffs to afton, but he is the pinnacle of balance. Qol would be nice like the loud reveal sound, but I would leave his power as is, especially not even further reduce incentive to use the camera system.
Its not really about his Strength, i don't really mind niche characters (I like playing Trapper), but Pinnacle of Balance is a bit much, i don't entirely disagree with the notion, but i think rather than is, i think he has the Potential to be, but isn't right now.
His Power has the Groundwork, a well rounded chase power with a astronomical skill ceiling, fun gimmicks, and the most interesting in-depth Killer objective in the game, a Objective that isn't just 'Open Chest' / 'Interact with Item', Xenomorph and Singularity are probably the closest to this, but quite far from it, the Problem is simply the Objective, regardless of cool it is, does not see use.
I am SO glad he didn't release in a strong state, his release is Surrounded by Ghoul and Krasue, who are both S tier on release, having a weaker Killer is such a breath of fresh air, and having a strong release permanently stains a Killers reputation, so him being well liked can be attributed to the fact he isn't that strong.
But theres a difference between Balance and Power-Design, and his issues arent in Strength but Power Design, many Elements of his Power dont compliment or add to his kit, and lack purpose or have design flaws.
I think his Fire Axe (Chase Power) is mostly fine, its arguably the best designed projectile ingame, thats why its such a small part of my post, and only listed small changes, main issue is the Grab being just buggy, clunky and inconsistent.
Battery Mechanic is redundant, so is Altruistic Axe Removal.
I believe Altruistic Axe Removal is the perfect example of Design Flaws he has, it is technically 'faster' stat-wise (8s to 5s), but infinitely less efficient than doing it normally, 2 Survivors need to meet up, and then stand still for 5s, compared to 1 person taking 8s while moving at full speed, which is better in every scenario, an entire Animation to help a Teammate remove it, that was animated, coded, and put in, but it just has no purpose, simply due to flawed design.
And as for the literal MAIN mechanics, Cameras are too niche if you aren't in a SWF, They aren't bad, i mean Looping Shack, or another strong building with a door, with permanent Aura read on the Killer is fun, if you can tell your Friend ahead of time and get him to reveal Springtrap, forcing Springtrap to Drop Chase or have a game ending chase, it also wont run out of Battery cause u can hop off the Camera for 10s after every reveal and it recharges, the Battery mechanic is THIS flawed.
And Doors are barely used even though they are very strong, cause most Survivors don't understand them, this is also why i barely changed Door Teleports in my post, they're the best designed part of the Security System all-around.
Currently as a Killer Springtrap is at his current Prime, he will never be stronger than he was on Release due to how he is designed.
There are so many coded mechanics that provide no value to his Kit, the Cameras are entirely Ignorable, they're basically entirely 'extra' you can use them for benefit, or ignore them and use that time on Gen time, it feels like the Undetectable when using a Door was put on just so they had a niche 'use'.
It isn't Vecna where the Chests are always used every match cause they have a better balance as a Killer objective, they are appealing and its a bad idea not to with the benefits, with some downsides to Legendary items and the slight mimic risk, its simpler but the balance is there.
If you are against Wesker or Nemesis and u ignore the cures completely, that's a bad idea, as there's the Carrot of getting rid of your Infection, and the Stick of the Infections downsides.
Or Pig which probably has the most severe Stick in the game, of literally you die, so probably best to remove the RBT, dying is bad.
A Good Killer Objective should have both the carrot, and the stick, for the Cameras there is a nice carrot, but no stick exists, and therefor the entire Mechanic can be ignored, and when the Cameras are ignored, it also makes the Battery have even less purpose.
Some Killers that are Similar to Springtrap but lack these issues: Xenomorph (Turrets), or Unknown (Hallucinations), both have Objectives that are not ignored, and if they are, it benefits the Killer in question, if there's no Turrets, Xenomorph is very strong in chase, and if there's Hallucinations, The Unknown has great Map Pressure via them, and having Survivors use time on these Objectives keeps them off Generators, even if its only a few seconds, and these Killers could still use changes even with that, Turret Stacking is rough for Xenomorph, and Unknown is nicknamed The Harmless but also constantly compared to Springtrap both in Strength and Similarities, Unknown isn't a weak Killer, but he is a High Skill Ceiling Projectile Killer with a boatload of Counterplay and could really use some changes to be less punishing.
I HEAVILY disagree with stuff like making him 4.6m/s always, it makes him stronger, but its just a SUPER boring way to buff him that doesn't fix ANY of his issues and makes him more boring, and i am just interested in making him more fun to play, while keeping him as interactive to face, and also the Battery mechanic was such a missed opportunity to be super thematic and interesting in my opinion.
If you could say where i reduced incentives to Cameras in my post that would help, cause i am trying to give incentives to use the Cameras, and even increased the reveal duration from 10s to 15s, to match the Stealth mechanic intervals, i would like to hear your thoughts on it so i can improve it, i try to improve the post when i can. -
@MarylinMonhoe said:
My main problem with Springtrap are the doors spawning right in front of a generator
Especially on Lery's
Changing this would actually buff Springtrap doors, cause if it isnt close you cant hear the door or see the panel, so them being in sight lets u get more pre-run distance.
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@adam1233467 said:
I always wanted Springtrap to be a decent killer with insane power but right now his power feels so punishing, like no matter what you do, you have a cooldown for something, it's kinda frustrating sometimes, but this doesn't prevent me for playing with him, I alywas will have fun with him and no other killer makes me play killer more.
I still cannot stand the fact BHVR nerfed streamers to 15%, in just 2 weeks of his lifetime…
Atleast it didnt get the Knotted Rope treatment, 10% → 2%, but yeah it was a weird change.
But yeah the reason Springtrap feels so punishing is cause his Throw Endlag is 2s, but that 2s only starts after the throw animation is finished, so its Throw → Wait 2s, then you can Attack.
So ALOT of the time its better to just cancel the projectile in close range (Takes 1s) and M1, then u keep your axe aswell. -
Also thinking about other ideas, Incapacitated is a underused status effect that used to be on Loot Bag in the PtB, but i do think it would be pretty strong if it was on the Fire Axe, but i wonder if it would be too much, or unnecessary.
But mostly i wanna talk about Doors and Jumpscares.
There's some issues like passing through each other in Door Teleports, Visual Example:
This happens due to how the Doors/Jumpscares function:
The Jumpscare Happens if both 'Teleport' Durations Overlap on the same Doors.
But Exit/Enter dont have any interactions, so if you enter during their Teleport and they Exit before your Enter finishes you pass through eachother, im unsure if its a 'BUG' persay, but its probably not intended.
This sadly makes the most optimal play when near a door thats being used to just stand infront of it and grab them during the Exit animation from outside, which makes the Office Jumpscare even more gimmicky.
I was also thinking of if it would work if Springtrap could see Doors that are in use highlighted with Yellow within a short range. Visual Example:
Similarly to how Doors show Yellow when used if inside of a door.
Another thing i wonder about the Office Jumpscare being limited to 1 Version for Killer POV but has 6 Versions from Survivor POV, on top of the Glitchtrap skin having a new animation in Surv POV, it definitely feels like a lot of effort was put into it for how Gimmicky and Rare it is.
I didn't go much into the Office Jumpscares or Doors in the main post, but i do think they could use some tuning and fixes. -
@ImperatorHaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026459#Comment_4026459
A lot of people make the argument that he doesn't need a buff because he has one of the best teleports in the game. Be that as it may, when a killer has 0 mobility and the only mobility he is given can be dispelled easily, he becomes pretty useless. 95% of the survivors' teams I am up against I have someone following me, removing my hallucinations while I chase someone else. It is too easy, too quick, and with no indication (unless they mess up somehow), to remove his hallucinations. Then the other side of the argument is "well he has his projectile to close the distance", but when his projectile is inconsistent, easy dodged, and the status effect can be removed quickly, he becomes useless again.
Take any other teleport killer, let's say Demo - Demo's teleports take quite some time to remove for a survivor, he does have a teleport animation which takes time, but the removal of his teleports is still time consuming. How does he close the gaps? He has a lunge that allows him to jump from very far, easily closing the distance and most of the time it is a guaranteed hit. The Unknown has his UVX which bounces, hits objects and other things along the way which can backfire, and he has to hit two shots for it to count as a hit. And that can all be undone with 10 seconds and a good loop.
Take hag, another teleport killer - hag's teleports are easily removed..but under the right conditions. You can either shine your flashlight on them or crouch up to them and wipe them away. Run within radius though, they trigger and she gets notified and can teleport to them. Her teleports are also small and can be easily concealed. And, as opposed to The Unknown, her teleports don't have an aura range which also keeps them hidden.
There has to be give and take and there is only take and not enough give with the Unknown. Has a projectile that can hit through walls and give a status effect - but it bounces on everything, status doesn't do anything and can be removed after 10s, and it take two shots. He has a quick teleport - can easily be removed, survs can see the aura within range, also gives auditory signals to where they are at.
So, I would agree with you about teleports if the Unknown was going up against a survivor team that has never played against him. I do not agree with you when it comes up against SWF teams who have played against him. He is almost completely useless, and you are fighting to get your kills. A range killer with no crosshair and a trajectory projectile already takes a level of skill for players, but requiring two hits and being able to undo the progress you've made makes this killer extremely challenging to play, ESPECIALLY when he has little to no mobility already.
Check out The Harmless video Otzdarva made on YouTube. As a pro DBD player, he has even suggested the Unknown needs a buff of some kind. If you won't take my word, maybe people will take his word for it.
No i agree he needs a buff, i just dont think he is in need of MAJOR buffs, being simply able to look down would make him alot better, cause u can force him to miss if you are too close, that ontop of either weakness taking slightly longer to remove or a slightly shorter UVX CD would make him MUCH better.
But i approve buffing him, the recent Unknown Patch wasnt great, apart from letting him look up (Just let him look down aswell now) -
@Jspect said:
Amazing stuff, glad to see more voices on springtrap. I love him so much, but he's so frustrating at the moment.
He can be pretty punishing when you miss, his hitbox is very precise, and when his axe is on CD he doesnt really have a power, as well as being super weak to pre-running, i dont think he is terribly weak, but hes in a rough spot, and could benefit greatly from minimal changes, like his Grab being fixed and changed to M2, and Restaurant Menu being so required is a good example that his Cooldowns are a bit rough, and should be lowered, it doesnt even lower his longest Cooldown (On Hit being 10s) But just going from 7s to 5.4s on Miss is a big difference.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
I like a lot of what you have suggested for the power I would say that springtrap should gain some kind of buff during the blackout like undetectable in the same vain as dredge or de-buffing the survs in the way of Freddy either of the two.
Also an addition to the power, adding in the phantoms from Fnaf3 would be cool as most of them is already in the game with the Haunted by Daylight ghosts and can either be a strategic mechanic to place down or just random with either a hinder or power draining effect which can be mitigated by staring them down for a few seconds (like 3) something that would not get you if you pay attention but if your distracted would get you.
As for the add-ons I like most of them but I think.
- Access Panel should always have the axe go to the door with the surv next to it as its inconsistent due to do without interacting with the door you have to hope that the doors link up, so it should just always go to the door with a surv on it as right now its more of an info add-on.
- Endo CPU should give your axe back immediately after breaking a pallet under its effect so you can still keep up the pressure.
- Celebrate Poster should just go back to PTB version as the haste for everyone is chaotic and fun but its not as effective as before.
- Chica's Bib is still a bit meh as you still need to land the axe meaning it will not stop most exhaustion perks except Dead Hard so I would change it to be applied on exit of a door in a 6M radius.
- Foxy's Hook should be buffed in either two ways, one make it 10% extra haste as it is just not enough on a lot of loops on its own or keep it as is but make it so only spring trap can gain it as right now its too risky to use on a lot of loops due to this unless you tech it at a window vault.
And that's it for add-ons.
For perk I think Help Wanted should be changed as compromised perks in general are not good as sacrificing a gen for small buff is rarely worth it, so something like when its kicked it gives a buff straight away like Trail of Torment while highlighting the gen so 25% - 30% faster M1 Cooldown while highlighted but when no longer regressing it goes away as it would be far more useful that way (has to be a gen kick tho so no ruin or Pain res).
Other than that I think everything you listed would be great.
I wanted to the Power Outage to be simple in concept as i didnt want it to do TOO much, and as for the Undetectable he would gain it over the 60s as he cant be marked by cameras during the Power Outage, so they would have to reveal him afterwards.
I agree alot of Haunted by Daylight void mechanics are similar to Springtrap ideas, the Portals are similar to Doors aswell as both sides can use them, i would even say theyre stronger than the doors cause the Killer is told when theyre used by Survs, but the Killer uses them completely silently.
1. Access Panel is already solid for the info, and you can link Doors by travelling through them to the door you want, it does take some time, but its extremely cool when you pull off the setups, it also helps to stop anyone using doors if u cant reach the door in time u can just toss the axe through it to hit them.
2. Endo CPU doesnt really need another big buff i think, it got a pretty massive one, it doesnt benefit Survs like foxy's hook, but i would increase its linger slightly by 1 second so it lines up with Foxy's Hook at 6 seconds.
3. Celebrate Poster was very fun in PTB, but i dont think they would revert it to 20%, i think a middle point like Foxy's Hook at like 15-18% is more realistic.
4. Chica's Bib working on hit would stop not only help against Deadhard, but also sometimes Lithe, Dramaturgy, idk about Overcome, depends on how it interacts, but i think more Perks affecting Door Teleports is a good idea, only really have Security Badge, Streamers and Remnant interacts with the teleports right now, and none of them are good.
5. Foxy's Hook is pretty okay after the recent buff, i dont think it needs another as it really isnt that bad at making some loops alot easier to play around via positioning for it and making sure the surv doesnt benefit aswell, but it definitely can punish missed shots.
I agree Help Wanted is pretty bad, his only Good perk is Phantom Fear, but atleast Help Wanted does something unlike Haywire right now, and most of its issues lie with the Compromise perks in general.
Even small changes would be nice, i dont think Springtrap needs a major patch on his chase power, its pretty well rounded, but the Doors could be alot cooler i think. -
@LordLazeris said:
The nerfs they gave her were overkill. Now she is at the top 6 lowest killer pickrate in the game. I am already beginning to miss her terror radius music.
Give me something else than the blight or ghoul in my games bhvr.
She isnt not played because she is bad now, she is still better than 80% of the Killers in the game, buffing her would not make her be played much more.
She was played because
She was new
She was S tier
She was easy
Now she isnt new
Isnt S tier
Isnt as easy -
@jamally093 said:
As the title says what is the killer with the best terror radius and chase music. For me still has to be legion even without the mixtapes it's still hands down best terror radius and chase music in the game.
Also just for fun why not add least favorite note we'll exclude the default one as little cheap to go with it. So I'll say Ghost Face just not a big fan of it.
Springtrap has really good Layer 1-3, i feel the only downside is his Layer 4 (Chase) is a bit lacking in energy, its not bad but SLIGHTLY underwhelming, atleast when compared to Layer 3, but Layer 1-3 really makes you feel like you are in the FNaF 3 Office.
Its overall a really great TR though. -
@ImperatorHaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025860#Comment_4025860
Have you played The Unknown?
I mean its John 'dbdiskillersided' why would he not think Unknown needs no buffs, its in his name- ANYWAYS.
I think Unknown isnt as weak as people say, his Hallucinations are one of the best Teleports in the game, even if theyre removable, i think all he needs is minor tweaks to make the UVX status a little harder to remove, cause Land UVX, Miss, Weaken Removed, Land UVX, Miss, Weaken Removed, Land UVX, M2 Bait, M1, is how alot of his chases go.
Unknown is pretty silent, 4.6ms, normal terror radius, a interesting projectile and one of the best teleports in the game.
Mostly just needs a little help on the Weaken status removal being a bit too easy, it forces you to go for shots you are likely to miss, and when you do, it resets all your pressure. -
@BongoBoys said:
Matches only last 3 mins in this gamemode Gens fly and it's a massive issue Devs need to look at and Tweak also listening to 2 gens pop every 30 seconds also has a slight insanity effect to it
Simply just how the gamemode is designed, mathmatically if the survivors do gens they just go fast, and its not like Survivors cant hold long chases in 2v8 cause Escapist is one of the strongest things Survivor has ever had, better SB on demand, thats also AOE with less Exhaust/CD, Windows, Better Selfcare.
If im on Escapist i normally dont get downed in under a couple minutes unless both Killers focus me at once, and even then if i have my SB off CD i can likely earn some time.
Medic and Scout are also really good, not as busted but solid.
But yeah, theres 2x the Survs, but not 2x the Gens, so obviously Gens go faster by design, especially if Killers ever group up it basically lets everywhere else on the map grind gens.
Only thing keeping it balanced is the fact most survivors are just messing around in 2v8, so times when your entire team is actually doing the objective are sometimes rare. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024789#Comment_4024789
No idea. I know not everyone in this forum is an upper MMR player which, according to the ancient legends, is a dark and forsaken land of all Blights and Nurses.
Looking at my stats, my last 10 survivor matches were against these:
- Pyramidhead
- Dredge
- Huntress
- Wesker
- Krasue
- Pig
- Gunslinger
- Knight
- Springtrap
- Freddy
Not a single repeat. No Nurses, Blights, or Ghouls. I never play as those three characters either.
Statistically you face Blight and Nurse combined less than Killers face Full SWFs. (Both have around a 3% Pickrate Worldwide vs 4 Man SWFs being 11% of Matches, from the most recent Stat drop from Mid-October)
However this doesnt take into account MMR and is just overall stats, i would assume both numbers are higher in High MMR.
Wish the stats were more public so we had accurate statistics all the time though, would be cool. -
@Colt45m said:
Don't get me wrong I think this is a nice idea to get more variety of colors for scratch marks. The thing is if this update is scrapped again and new scratch mark colors go through I think its going to make it easier for killers to tunnel. Lets say you know a meg has blue scratch marks well just look for the blue and tunnel out the meg.
I am speechless
-
@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025578#Comment_4025578
This too. You could remove his cage power and it wouldn't change anything.
I was expecting him to get more returns cause of that, but he barely got anything, if anything he is weaker than with decent Addons, Dracula a already strong killer got a 3rd Dash.
-
@BorisDDAA said:
Saw PH for a few games then never again. He's mid like Nemesis and gets screwed by people spamming sprint burst.
SB on command is so goofy cause u see a M2 Killer charge their m2 and u can just dip.
-
@tes said:
First time in my life I struggled ON MY OWN MAIN
It’s a huge rant here, but the buff that was provided on him — considering he is slow killer with mid range so insignificant
Few teammates even left the lobby…. Because of my killer choice
Not even mentioning how cages, one of his main mechanics, is basically basekit to 2v8, he really got given the short end of the stick.
-
@Shroompy said:
The last time I made a prediction about Stranger Things... well it didnt go so well.
So heres a cool screenshot I took way back when the chapter was initially being pulled!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B6LU9YA7NF7X/176245844275147634274174166650.jpg
Prediction, cause i was originally expecting Predator for AvP 2v8
But this made me realize they can also go for a Stranger Things 2v8, with Vecna and Demogorgon. -
@BorisDDAA said:
This ######### is so extremely busted and annoying to verse and was clearly put because of legion. Anyone that isn't a dash killer is legit unplayable because of it.
Medic is also really good right now as 2 of them can instaheal everyone in a large radius everytime their ability is off CD, which also was only really countered.. By Deep Wound, which Legion is the only Killer except Deathslinger that can inflict that in 2v8 right now.
-
@jamally093 said:
Why should I be punished because the server crashed? I get DC penalties exist to basically punish those who actually DC but I was playing everything was going well till my game froze and I knew right away the server was about to crash and I was kicked to the main lobby. Yet I'm still punished because the game screwed up and I didn't DC so now I have to wait because of something out of my control.
How much do you DC and Crash for the penalty to apply?
Cause currently you dont get a penalty unless it happens very often, its so forgiving people DC at their mildest inconveniences, so unless theres a bug happening a singular DC shouldnt be giving a penalty. -
@KingOfDoom55 said:
In the ptb notes, furtive chase is completely changed back to its previous iteration without its down sides, and reduces terror radius by 10% every time the obsession is hooked, up 3/4/5 tokens, which doesn't do anything for most killers, the reason why furtive chase is good rn on live servers is bc it provides a good bonus for hooking the obsession that non tunneling should probably look like than having a 5% bloodlust that goes away as soon as entering a chase or using your power or breaking or damaging anything at all, which is useless and enforces m1 tactics which is already pointless due to how powerful Survivors are gonna be by the time this ptb goes live, making the bloodlust, even more useless as a "bonus" for not tunneling, which this just encourages more tunneling bc the benefits don't do anything at all, playing killer won't be fun or worth playing anymore due to how op Survivors are gonna be and how weak killers are with all these changes Survivors are getting, which, lower tier killers (trapper, legion, and SM) is already gonna struggle alot more than they do already.
And before you downvote, no I have NO idea how prb furtive chase is supposed to be useful when now it specifically needs obsession builds to work properly compared to now where it grants 10% haste and undetectable for 18s total, which is a big nerf in my opinion
I like stupid perks so i think its neat, but it should NEVER replace a existing perk so many people like, even if its similar to old furtive, they can always add new general perks to try niche ideas like this one.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024002#Comment_4024002
Yeah I'd generally be in favor of all your ideas if we also add buffing all the low tier killers and balance the game around assuming comms.
Thats basically the idea, after they do that they can bring most low tiers up, and bring the strongest survivor stuff down.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024019#Comment_4024019
Yeah, I agree with all these things.
But outrage does matter, because outrage, particularly from popular voices, is why we can never get meaningful changes. The only way we will get that change is if BHVR stops letting a loud minority dictate their actions.
Yes but outrage is completely irrelevant to this conversation cause neither of us have control over BHVRs decisions in the first place, all of this is just a discussion, so its no reason to constantly bring it up.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024011#Comment_4024011
Again, I want the wheel. I'd love to have a reason to play soloq again. But this is a monkey paw wish.I know there would be crazy outrage and what we'd end up with is, instead of what we have now, with some survivors being potentially stronger than others thanks to Discord/console chat, all would be brought down to a lower level. I'd think we'd see nerfs to gen perks, gen times, exhaustion. Pretty much everything.
If we could just get the wheel without "what do the killers get?? 😭😭😭" sure, but that ain't gonna happen.
I already listed above what i think the game needs
Bring down the top tier killers (Blight/Nurse)
Bring up solo queue (comms example, chat wheel)
Fix Bugs, add QoL
And then after all this, they can actually probably balance the game from here.
Whether people would be outraged or not doesnt matter, cause most people agree that top killers need to be brought down and solo queue needs to be brought up, after that they can refine the game way better.
Blight/Nurse being too strong negatively effects alot of weaker killers due to them balancing killer perks around that
Solo Queue being too weak allows SWFs to have really busted stuff cause it isnt nearly as strong without the coordination to abuse it. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024002#Comment_4024002
No one would complain about Solo Queue being brought closer to SWFs
I would like a chat wheel but I don't believe this statement for a second. You can't give survivors anything without an uproar. There would be so many bad faith arguments about why this is OP from killer-players who rely on uncoordinated soloqers for easier wins. As it is, SWF is constantly used as the scapegoat for most killler problems. Survivors as a whole would see massive nerfs if any form of communication was added in.
Im sorry but that line was obviously hyperbole and wasnt meant to be taken extremely literally, of course SOMEONE will always complain but when i say 'No one would complain' its compared to this, its an idea more people can get behind, Solo Queue isnt strong, most people can agree on this, therefor they can also agree that buffing solo queue in a way that doesnt affect SWFs is agreeable, it wouldnt be like this where nearly everyone can agree this patch is cheeks, not to mention the positives from closing that gap for future balancing is immeasurable, cause they could balance survivor as a whole instead of having to consider how it impacts SWF / Solo Queue.
-
@Blueberry said:
Yeah a lot of these changes just buff swf more.
Instead of buffing solo queue with some form of comms like a chatwheel, they buff survivors overall which buffs SWFs much more cause they can use all these basekit perks much more effectively.
Very few would complain about Solo Queue being brought closer to SWFs, the problem is theyre buffing survivors overall, and ALOT at that, OTR, Babysitter, Wicked all going basekit, ontop of some of their reworks being even better. (Babysitter and Wicked are insane now) and the AntiSlug is just hypertargetted at Twins/Oni while anti-camp screws Trapper over.
Its so simple what the game needs
Nerf Blight, Nurse
Add communications to Solo Queue
Fix Bugs
Add QoL
And after all that, check the state of the game and see what needs changes from here. -
@IrisLP said:
Am I the only one who feels like all these changes are only helping swf and that solo queue continues to be crippled?
Many would think the syringe is a big change, but honestly, only swf will think that. In solo queue, I use the medkit on my teammates, and the pixel I save for the syringe I use for two things:
- If someone is being tunneled, I give it to them so they can quickly regain health (we all know perfectly well that anti-tunneling isn't going to work).
- For myself, because many times randoms don't want to stop to heal you even if it's your last hook.
I still don't understand why they give swf so many tools and solo queue just has to be "the easy mode, so the killers can have fun."
They're nerfing the few strong survivor addons in the game, but buffing the many killer addons to make them faster and allow them to gain power almost effortlessly (Myers, for example).
Since this game is clearly becoming a game for killers and swf, there's no room for solo players.
I guess I'll have to play killer and start tunneling. Eventually, we'll only be playing against swf, and tunneling will be the only way to try and win a killer match. My advice is to play killer or stop playing survivor unless it's on a swf.
Adding Comms or a Chat-Wheel to bring Solo Queue closer to SWFs in coordination would be better at buffing survivors, without making SWFs stronger in any way, coordination and communication is super valuable.
Instead they are just slapping OTR, Babysitter, Wicked into basekit, and come on BHVR, 15s of worse T1 Bloodlust and some BP, did you really think you were cooking with those 'rewards' for not tunneling.
Theres millions of ways they could buff Survivor without buffing SWFs, this patch isnt one of them.
The Syringe rework also sucks for so many reasons.. First of all its not weaker, its a side grade at worst, its stronger in chase, its worse designed due to having nearly no counterplay now, and it also requires you to run Exhaustion perks, or else its useless, meaning Syringe now doesnt do anything if u dont wanna run exhaustion perks.
PTB 9.2.0 was already bad, and this time theres no new chapter that distracts from how bad the changes are. -
@Zombieville said:
The only thing that's good is the scratchmark colors but that's about it.
No one is surprised, they said what we were gonna get in the livestream, fork found in kitchen, id say its somehow even worse than i expected with how broken some of the reworked perks are (Wicked + Resurgence is an example)
-
@Raccoon said:
Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe:- Removed the heal over time effect.
- Removes Exhaustion on use.
(Rework) - Consumes the med-kit on Secondary Action use.
This will be spicy.
Unironically probably even better, now its basically guaranteed chase time with no risk of value loss, now you can SB to a strong tile, and if u get into a bad situation you activate your second SB.
-
@SoGo said:
While yes, these sound scary, these assume the first survivor can last 90 seconds in a chase.
Which is rare.
Another thing that can happen and does happen, is 3-genning. It got nerfed, but it still works really well.
A tight 3-gen as the final one is a death sentence against any stronger killer.
Not that this is completely invalid. It shows why tunneling and perks like Pain Res are popular, and why everyone complaints about gen times.
Theres alot more factors than just the chase time, positioning / where you bring the killer are equally important, its why sometimes the optimal play when chased is literally running into a corner on the opposite side of the map, farthest away from a hook cause that forces the killer to waste 10-15 seconds just walking to a hook, and cause they are also in the farthest corner away from a gen, thats even more time to walk back, which can make even a 30 second chase give 60 seconds of time or more.
3 Gens are strong, almost necessary sometimes, but its mostly up to the Survivors where the last 3 Gens are, as long as you fix even 1 of the gens in that position early, it will end up split across the map, and if the Killer only sits around that position it allows you to just run far away if they initiate a chase, and you can infinitely reset if they don't commit, so either you slowly whittle the gens down, or they commit for the hook and lose their 3 gen.
(Not Counting Outlier 3 Gens like currently that TWD Map with 3 within like 10 meters, they need to fix that, its goofy)
And this is just speaking basekit, with Perks you can force alot of lose-lose situations for the Killer, theres a reason Survivor perks are VERY Limited in Comp, cause if not 90% of Killers would have 0 viability in that space, the only thing keeping this 'balanced' is the fact people dont commonly face these calliber of teams in normal games.
Most of this doesnt really matter against Solo Queue uncoordinated squads, they will 3 gen themselves or get chased near important gens, i think Solo Queue really needs Coordination to close the gap slightly, a Chat-Wheel would be sick, cause BHVR doesnt wanna do VOIP. -
@AetherBytes said:
Match starts.
Survivors split and work on 4 gens. One gets found and gets chased.
At this point, from my observations, 3 gens almost always pop at the same time or very soon after the down
Here, 1 survivor on hook, 3 free.
If they just decide to crank a gen, and the next chased survivor can survive 90 seconds (or less depending on perks and time to travel) the other 2 gens can be popped and it's already end game. Even if the chased survivor now goes down, the other gets saved by one survivor and the last one opens a gate as the unhooked one gets healed, all at the cost of the stalled survivor going to death hook instead of just one hook. Even if killer abandons chase and hassles another gen, nothing stops the previously chased survivor just taking over the gen. If the previous chase went long enough, even if the new chase is shorter it wont be enough.
Suddenly, it's 3 healthy survivors, endgame with gates 99'ed/opened, and killer only has 2 hooks. 3 healthy survivors is enough to force an unhook (barring very specific killers, bubba being the only one who can guarantee there will be a price to pay for the unhook), take hits and block, and leave the game. Or just leave the first as a sacrifice and leave, and it's still considered a survivor win.
Now I understand that perks and powers can change this, but so can survivor items. Most forms of regression in the game are often not enough to save a gen if the survivors want it done, and while I understand not every squad is capable of doing this, the fact it's possible even with the killer making no mistakes (and even if the survivors make a few minor ones) makes me realize the balance is an absolute joke.
Yes, I know it doesn't happen every game, and in fact is rare that it would even play out like that, but a team dedicated to this, with at least 2 good chasers, can totally pull this off if they tried or get so close that they're still ahead by a mile. It also explains why gen regression is king, despite how pitiful it is, because no matter how bad it is, other perks cannot save even near that amount of time, with many of them even having penalties that make their bonuses pointless. Camping is a thing because killers simply cannot pressure gens in many cases in any effective manner, meaning their hook is currently the most important defence as it's the only time they can force other survivors into shorter chases. Tunneling stems from this too; every killer knows just how much the pressure they need to make drops the moment it becomes a 1v3, and in itself is the most effective form of gen regression; the complete elimination of a survivor's presence for the remainder of a match can save more than any regression perk when done early enough.
I want to clarify here that I am not excusing camping or tunneling, but once you realize just how little power a killer has you start to realize why many resort to it
It's also why killers like Nurse and Blight are the best. They cut out the most time consuming part of any trial; mobility and chase power.. The survivors can no longer reach that guaranteed "first hooked survivor will be fine" threshold and have to rescue now, slowing them down a lot and is the start of a snowball with a good killer.
Weaker killers, like Trapper or Hag (basekit) for example, just cannot compete with an ability that forces them to sacrifice time to setup, for the potential of no payoff or worse.
I wish I could end this post with suggestions or answers to fix this, but I'm truly stumped. Sure, turning up gen times would work, but then that means normal SWFs or solo queue become unable to win as well. Decreasing hook times back to 60 seconds per stage could maybe work, as that lost 20 seconds leaves only 0~10 seconds to save instead of 20-30, which is nigh impossible unless the killer is incompetent (in which case, it's overkill anyway)
And before someone comments it, yes, again, I know. This is not common place, but it's methematically possible especially against weaker chase/mobility killers, and with how bad the MMR system is, completely feasible to execute in a live match
What do you guys think?
If all 4 Survivors have brought ways to speed up gens you can lose the 3 gens at the start even with a 30 second chase, if u cut off the time it takes u to start the chase and bring them to a hook.
Obviously some coordination is required, but its somewhat consistently possible to power gates by like 2-3 Mins. -
@Xray said:
The friday the 13th license is a mess but it seems like the gears are turning for Jason Voorhees content to put out again. Most likely Jason will be arriving later rather then sooner but if so i hope its just not his new look cause honestly im not a fan of it. Would be pretty based if we had Jason's look from Jason Takes Manhattan as that look has always been a personal favorite of mine.
I think the best we can hope for is that the Jason Universe holders allow some original skins down the line, otherwise it might be similar to freddy and myers with very few cosmetics.
Not saying Movie skins wouldnt be cool, but im not sure how much hold the Jason Universe has on older content. -
@VibranToucan said:
In the recent livestream BHVR said they have 3 definitions of tunneling.
- Only going for one Survivor.
- 2. Hooking the same Survivor twice in a row.
- ????? (They blanked out in it.)
This has lead me to have a series of questions and concerns regarding the term.
- What is the third definition? Some people told me 1 kill before 6 hooks, but it's not official and if that was the case I'd have done more questions and concerns.
- What exactly is the difference between 1 and 2? It honestly feels like it's pretty hard to only go for one Survivor without hooking them at least twice I feel like 1 should be covered by 2.
- Now, the answer to this might answer my previous question. How do special early kills fit in the list? Things like Pigs Head trap, Sadako Condemn, Rancor, Basekit Mori allow you to kill a Survivor before they reached the second hookstage. If the killer has no hooks/only one hook on the affected Survivor and they die due to one of theses, does that count as tunneling under the first definition? I honestly feel it shouldn't.
- How do Moris fit into this system in general? Let's take Myers or Pyramid Head who can basekit kill Survivors who have 2 hook stages. If Myers hooks Meg for the second time, and before he hooks anyone else, she gets unhooked and Myers kills her using Evil Incarnate, would that count as tunneling under the second definition? He technically didn't hook her twice in a row.
- Additionally, let's take the reverse. Let's say Myers hooks Nea, then kills Dwight (who is dead on hook) using Evil Incarnate, and then hooks Nea again. Would that count as tunneling under the second definition? He technically got a kill between hooks, not a different hook so it was two hooks in a row on Nea (This is how it worked on last PTB btw).
- How does player number affect this? If only two Survivors are left, is going for the same person twice in a row still tunneling, even tho your pool of options is vastly reduced?
I hope I can find an answer to my question. Thanks.
According to the recent Anti-Tunnel PTB, their Anti-Tunnel triggered and punished the killer in 2 scenarios.
1: Death before 6 hooks.
2: Death from 2 hooks in a row.
Both of these scenarios dont really equal tunneling.
1: Could happen even if you split hooks, meaning you could get punished for tunneling even without focusing anyone.
2: Could happen if u hooked the same person twice in a row after getting everyone to 2 hook stages. Meaning you could get punished for 'Tunneling' at 8 Hooks and 1 Gen..
In short i dont really think BHVRs stats on Tunneling only include actual Tunneling, it probably includes any match with early deaths or the same person being hooked twice in a row, there is no way they are reviewing every match manually and getting context, so theyre probably just reading statistics, which doesnt tell a full story. -
@Xord said:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW??????????????????
We are witnessing developpers, ONCE AGAIN, siding with hard tunneling killers by REMOVING ALL PENALTIES FOR TUNNELING and yet you complain because, as a hard tunneler, you won't benefit from the very small advantages killers will get for playing normally as intended?
This is absolutely insane.
Learn to play the game or uninstall, tunneling is disgustingly toxic behavior.Insane US VS THEM energy.
You claim a Patch that entirely benefits survivor is BHVR siding with Killer? I mean come on be serious.
You tell others to 'Learn to play' but how come you've never followed that advice yourself? You come off as very toxic while claiming others to be for playing the game in a way you disprove of.
This community has so many toxicity problems, cant even discuss balancing or play the game normally without people getting toxic. -
@Leonardo1ita said:
BHVR, I'm sorry to say, but the most recent Dev stream was the most "one sided" stream I've seen in a REALLY long time, for real. I cannot express my frustration more.
Subject: tunneling (also slugging).
If the previous PTB at least had a compensation to killers not tunneling. It was small, but it was there. Now, in this PTB, it's "mask off", completely. Insane measures against tunneling, with almost NO COMPENSATION for not tunneling.
No mention whatsoever of the reason why killers are doing it and why sometimes it's necessary, no mention about reducing "gen rushing" perks or Medkits, nothing at all. No deactivation at 1 gen left even.
If this goes live, this is gonna be the most one sided thing I've seen in a VERY long time. For real.
Tunneling is gonna be killed for good, and good luck if you're ever forced to tunnel in an indoor map, because survivors will 100% lose any killer.
Slugging, also, is gonna be made impossible, in those scenarios where survivors just die under pallets, sabotage, Flip Flop power struggle, etc etc. Essentially a free gift to insane teams with insane builds.
Also, the anti camp might be quite bad vertically on some maps like Midwich.
Almo2001 already told you: this might actually "kill" the game, like VHS, no joke. And this time, for real. Lack of agency indeed.
To fix this, a lot of killer compensation buffs when NOT tunneling are needed.
I mean anyone with a working pair of eyes can read the PtB changes and see its completely lopsided.
Surv gets basekit OTR, Babysitter, Wicked, Elusive every unhook, anti camp, anti tunnel.
Killer gets bp and a worse bloodlust that ends if u start a chase.
If we Switch the roles it would be the equivalent of giving Killers basekit BBQ, Pain Res, Agitation, some Undetectable every Hook, and 2 Systems against Survivor Strategies, and giving Survivors 5% haste for 15s when they unhook someone, but it ends if Killer enters a chase with them, and a BP Bonus when you Unhook someone.Obviously that is a HORRIBLE idea if you read it, Blight and Nurse being buffed alongside Trapper and Pig is like SWFs being buffed alongside Solo Queue.. oh wait.
In short, i believe carpet buffing survivors massively instead of fixing Solo Queues main issue is stupid, the issue isnt that survivor is weak, but the fact that solo queue is sometimes just 4 headless chickens running in circles sabotaging eachother, cause they cant communicate at even 1% of the efficiency a simple SWF can via Voice Chat.
Add VOIP, or a Chat-Wheel, any remotely viable way to give my teammates the simplest of information and it would make solo queue feel better than any countless amount of Basekit perks being taped on will.
Until the Devs finally bridge the gap between Solo Queue and SWF even slightly, the game can never be remotely balanced. -
Okay lets see according to the upcoming PtB changes:
Survivor Gets 30s of 10% Haste, Endurance, Elusive, 10s of Aura Reading within 32m of the Killer, that ignores undetectable, every unhook, and also Anti Slug/Anti Camp.Compared to Killer getting 15s of 4.8% speed through T1 Bloodlust that gets removed if they enter a chase, or use their powers, so if Ghostface breathes or Trapper places a trap they lose that negligible buff, and a BP bonus on unique hooks.
Surv Gets 3 Basekit Perks (OTR, Babysitter, Wicked but ignores Undetectable), and Elusive (Every Unhook), and Anti Slug/Anti Camp.
VS
15s of a Worse Bloodlust (doesnt even work in chase) and BP. (Only on Unique Hooks)
I mean you can compare the two quite clearly.
This upcoming PTB entirely benefits Survivor and gives nothing to Killer except a BP bonus for unique hooks.
Its a bit entitled to be demanding the Killer also get punished for… Killing? ontop of all this. -
@Xord said:
Help Wanted on the Animatronic would be an actually good perk if they ever fixed the Compromised bug.
I think Compromise perks need a Rework, the playstyle they require makes very little sense, and the stuff that has to line up to get value feels very forced, its like you play around getting VALUE of the perks instead of just trying to play the game, maybe just me though.
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@UndeddJester said:
It feels like a negative feedback loop to me.
- Killers have obnoxiously overpowered killer powers in the roster that, when combined with perks, makes the killer ridiculous, so killer perks have to be nerfed constantly around this fact.
- Survivors in soloQ get smoked constantly because Survivors have obnoxiously overpowered SWF strats to make perks ridiculous, so survivor perks have to be restrained constantly around this fact.
- Because SoloQ gets merced at every turn, survivors keep getting more effects basekit and the odd yolo buffs to older perks that then become abusable by SWF.
- Lower tier killers become ever more increasingly difficult to play, so everyone switches to killers with obnoxiously strong powers and continues to stomp soloQ games, the cycle repeats.
No one is willing to take a nerf or any restrictions for SWF, because "that's punishing you for playing with friends"; because apparently the obvious problem of coordinated SWFs spamming powerful perks is not an issue enough to be worth using your brain for 20s to come up with an alternative combo before you ready up.
Similarly, no one is willing to nerf the strongest killers in the game in a meaningful way, because if you aren't at least as strong as Ghoul, the community largely deems you as trash and not worth playing... which to be fair is quite true, as m1 gameplay gets punished more and more by the ever increasing threats for all aspects of the game, to the point the only way to keep up is to have an obnoxious power.... set to be even more an issue following the incoming anti killer update.
So basically, perks have to suck because killer powers have to sit in the Singularity kind of tier to not get run over by strong survivors teams and builds... which makes any non A tier killer a ballache to play, so people only play A tier killers, and thus killer perks "overperform" and get nerfed.
Agreed with the feedback loop thing on most of this, Strong Killers have basically put a chokehold on Perks forcing them to be undertuned in fear of being too good on 1-2 of the strongest killers, even if it was balanced on 90% of the Killer roster.
For Killers, i would make these changes:
Nurse should not see Aura when using her Power.
Blight should not be able to break a pallet and immediately rush, when Ghoul had the ability to do that taken away within like the first weeks, give him the same change that makes him lose Tokens and put his power on cooldown when he breaks a pallet.
As for SWFs, id rather they dont nerf SWFs, but give SoloQ bare minimum comms, if they bridge the gap between the 2, the Solo Q experience will be better overall, and if there no longer is as vast a canyon between the two, maybe they can balance Survivor in general, instead of tip-toeing around SWF/SoloQueue, cause currently most of their changes just make lower tier killers worse, and SWFs stronger, cause they dont wanna address the elephant in the room, which is COMMUNICATIONS, there is nothing stronger than Communication in DbD.
But i will say Survivors are still getting really good perks, and Gen-speed Stacks stupidly well, especially when coordinated.
As of recent perks they got One-Two-Three-Four, Ghost Notes, Conviction, One-Two-Three-Four made Genspeed-Builds even faster, Ghost Notes is more anti-exhaust, but also, it allows some insane scratchmark removal, allowing you to nearly have no scratchmarks, and Conviction is Conviction. -
@Vess said:
I do agree that the survey should be improved, especially that many of those options are just empty points without any obvious solutions. However I am surprised that some people think (in this topic and the one before with the suggestion of survey improvements - I did read both) the point choice system is better than the empty space where you can freely describe your issues to the people that want to resolve them. For me that should be the most important part of the survey, because how can someone make your problems go away, when you won't share them in full way?
Some examples would be:
Perks are unbalanced. Someone tick it and what now? There are so many perks in the game, do they mean we should re-balance them all or some? Should we guess what perks? This lead to no problem resolving, but if you describe what perks and why are behaving this way. Also there is a large number of people doing the same - now we are getting somewhere.
Changes to existing features. Again! What features? Should we guess here? Or do you mean all? No solution without describing your issue.
Killer powers or addons are unbalanced. The same story like with the perks.
And yes those are all the original survey examples, there are even more there and the point of my post is to show it don't matter what side you prefer and feel is mistreat here. It also don't matter if you have 100 options for every side if they are just empty slogans and you don't want to share what you feel was your true problem. People that tick options that say nothing really just make themself still suffer from their problems.
Well thought out, i really agree with alot here, what really sucks is how blanket alot of the boxes are like 'I quit because of character perks being unbalanced' by itself doesnt really describe anything, and how being absent of any Killer-sided options is strange, cause its not like they used the freespace as a way to put any specific side issue as theres plenty of Survivor-side boxes.
The Killer experience can vary due to the various Killers and their powers all differing alot, so the least it should do is try to include as wide a net for Killers to complain in the survey as possible, and any further details could go into the freespace, but its rather like it completely avoids approaching the subject.
Bare minimum it should split up the 'Character perks are unbalanced' Option into 'Killer perks are unbalanced' and 'Survivor perks are unbalanced', as for 'Killer Powers/Addons are unbalanced' You could do 'Survivor Items/Addons are unbalanced'.
And as for other ones it could be 'My Killer is buggy/broken' and then you can use the freespace to write which killer and what bugs, how long they havent been fixed for, whatever you want, among other gripes.
Free space typing boxes are nice, but there isnt really a guarantee that your response will ever be heard with those, due to the manual review nature of them, while any boxes checked goes into the overall data.
This Survey shows up for people who Uninstall, so when a Killer player Uninstalls and they see not a singular box that can describe any of their problems, and only see the multiple ones about tunneling, killer powers, ect, that is not gonna leave a good impression, i feel, the absolute least a survey like this should do is atleast make your problems feel noticed. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020946#Comment_4020946
Ok man. The team hates killers and loves survivors. That makes perfect business sense.
Brother what are you on about? Thats a whole nother sentence you just shoved in his mouth.
DbD gotta be the only place where you can ask for better Surveys and itll somehow devolve into US VS THEM nonsense
Why is this even an argument there is ZERO downside to having the survey have Killer issues as options aswell, unless someone call tell me why Killers being able to list why they uninstall is problematic. -
Krasue once again follows this trend of having mostly niche perks being generous, Ravenous i find pretty interesting, but its countered by Vigil as any other Exposed perk and statuses in general are, and a one time proc.