Ragna_Rock
Ragna_Rock
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062803#Comment_4062803
Couple things-
To the point about the parry, I'm less saying it's a great idea for DBD and more pointing out that it's not just "a health state", which I think is a distinction that does matter quite a bit here.
Additionally, the counterplay for DH is baiting it, not waiting it. Flicking your camera up to fake a swing, starting a power animation but cancelling where applicable, etcetera. Killers with really telegraphed special attacks have a harder time with this, but most have a way of actively baiting a DH.
Finally, being downed and hooked isn't losing or failing inherently, the game is designed around that being inevitable. The point of a chase is to last as long as possible before being downed, not to avoid being downed outright. Dead Hard activating when you're hooked is just it being gated by match progression, not it being a reward for losing.
Your right its not just a health state its complete invincibility for the moment allowing you to even tank instant downs and with some killers it literally unavoidable you cant fake throw an axe. Its even worse.
No this is ridiculous throw your screen up and down? Faking a power animation? (a lot cant do that so it not a good measurement) This is not counter play this is pure cope throwing your screen around is more likely to harm you than the surv. Besides that most people using Dead Hard usually use it when you have to swing and at that point there is nothing that can be done.
The killer invests time while the others do gens (their objective) while you chase someone and down them (they lost the chase) and then you pick them up without getting stunned or blinded and take them over to a hook all to secure one hook state and when they later get rescued they now have an on demand 3rd health state that they got for losing.
And it is losing if getting downed and hooked is not losing than what is full death? That the only time a surv is considered to be losing or have lost? That's ridiculous. It is losing you are failing at your objective by going down and getting hooked, you get Dead Hard by losing allowing you to artificially extend chase its extremely unhealthy and should be completely reworked.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062773#Comment_4062773
I know I'm not the person you're responding to, but I would like to weigh in if you don't mind.
I think saying Dead Hard is an extra health state for losing isn't really accurate, personally. You aren't losing just because you got hooked, for starters, but more pressingly what Dead Hard does is give you a parry.
You aren't guaranteed to actually get to tank that hit, it's completely up to circumstance. Some killers it's very reliable, others it'll work once at most, there are smart and dumb ways of playing around it on both sides, etcetera.You can whiff a Dead Hard and it just gets you downed, ditto for the killer successfully baiting it. On the design front, I think DH is pretty reasonably well designed, at least if you aren't looking at the killers who have a harder time baiting it like Huntress.
This is not an action game, if this was a symmetrical game I would say a parry mechanic in a pvp game can be good BUT that's usually in a symmetrical game where normally its either a normal thing all can do (Like Deadlock) or an ability for a specific character (Like Genji in Overwatch).
The counterplay for this perk is waiting… in a asymmetrical horror game playing as horror icons and monster from other worlds you have to wait before you can swing, why? A perk so impactful you can fake it and still get value, killers still hesitate to swing when a surv runs at them because of it.
Anyway the "skill" component of the perk is not the point you absolutely get it for losing the killer has to down you and hook you while you get a free health state despite the fact your the one getting out played why should you get rewarded for that while the killer is the one who had to sink time into advancing their objective and the one who lost the chase gets a 3rd health state for it? How is that fair?
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062748#Comment_4062748
sure, but how are you supposed to predict when something is a deadzone without having known about its existence to begin with, in order to avoid it effectively?
for example; say you were caught off guard by a stealth killer and chased into one after not having been around the map for a while and you are still injured. what options does the survivor have in this scenario? just dying?
and what about cluttered or LOS-disruptive maps, like indoor maps, that make it hard for you to see what resources are available if it's not static, or you don't have a perk like 'windows of opportunity' to help you make better decisions?
i can also understand a play being well performed by the killer if they deny you a resource or zone you, but it's a 50/50 on whether or not you're capable of making it to something else if you're placed in a bad position in the scenario i described. would it be wrong for a survivor to use a tool (that is only given after a hook state, mind you) that gives them the ability to recover and buy a little more time for their team?
as an analogy: if someone is repeatedly trying to punch you in the face with brass knuckles in a fight—after you already took a nasty hit by them earlier while trying to get away—wouldn't it make sense to try and even the playing field by finding a brick to deal a painful amount of damage to them (to either gain the upper hand or discourage them from continuing the fight), or something that you can use to protect your face with so you have the opportunity to get away?
in my perspective, it's more than just 'getting another health state for losing' as you describe it. DH enables survivors to buy more time to keep pressure on the objective. with the game centering around a tug-of-war and time being the focus, you want to give players a way to tug on the rope. sometimes things like this make the game less prone to getting stale, since now you have things that can shift the dynamic between players.Investigate the map? Go and see what has spawned ahead of time to so you know and I don't even mean like the whole map just the immediate area so you have an idea where to go.
If you get caught off guard by a stealth killer than that's it, he out played you and got the drop on you.
Your analogy does not work here because the killer is supposed to be an unstoppable force you don't 1v1 the killer only buy time.
What dynamic does Dead Hard shift? You get a free health state from losing all that does is reward bad play.
But this still does not answer the main question. Should you get an extra health state for losing?
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062621#Comment_4062621
in dead hard's defense, it's at its strongest if the killer manages to put you in a really difficult spot that forces you to go down if you dont have any options left. this is especially helpful if you end up in a zone with zero resources left because your team previously used it all, or if a killer prevents you from taking a window that gives you access to the rest of the map again.
it's not really meant to be a reward, more-so a tool that gives you more options.
If you end up in a dead zone the killer either herded you like a sheep or you misplayed your positioning.
If the killer blocks the window that is a good play on their behalf.
But none of that really matters to the point, why should you get another health state for losing?
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First of all most maps will have a dead zone, if you constantly end up there that is either the killer is herding you like a sheep or you have no spatial awareness.
Two, I want to see what "no good pallets" looks like.
Third, "Casual 4k hour teammates" are you for real? 4k hours is far from casual.
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The only exhaustion perk in the game that's healthy is Smash Hit as its the only perks that requires you do something where as all the others are awful for the game and promote thoughtless gameplay (E.G. Sprint Burst or lithe ) or give you a reward for playing bad (E.G. Dead Hard or Overcome.)
The usual cope to this is but muh Blight/Nurse a few top killers means that the rest of the roster has to suffer is insane.
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The chance of a 3rd RE chapter is quite high I would say as it does well and its a name that a lot of people recognise and love.
But damn no Ethan Winters?
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You cant this is just how people are with PvP games and it does not help that BHVR have encouraged this mentality with SBMM, stat trackers and a heavy influence on streamers.
That and even for a PvP game losing is awful as if often feels like you don't get to do anything while one side stomps you, even a lot of MOBA's aren't this bad.
PvP games like this are just an arms race and if you fall behind the meta will crush you, sorry if this sounds like doom posting but this is DBD in 2026.
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Id say B tier its just exhaustion perks destroy this guy.
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Yes lets add dredge and unknown and call it the The Harmless update.
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Because didn't you know? Killers powers are not allowed to synergise or do well they have to be easy to predict with enough warning sounds and visual effects that even Stevie wonder could dodge it. 2v8 (and really DBD as a whole) is being geared towards the hyper casual.
Killer is too effective —> People Cry —> Killer Removed/Nurfed
Surv class/perk is too strong —> People Complain —> Nothing happens or we have to wait years first
Now they even have yellow vials that remove entire hook states, 2v8 is DBD for babies.
I mean DBD is a team game where most of its player base acts as if working together is a alien concept and when they lose because their teamwork is ass then they say its the killers fault for doing his objective, in any other game this would be a maddening concept that you would get mocked for but in DBD its actively set as the norm.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4056289#Comment_4056289
The problem is the insta down. The free heals don't mean a huge amount against oni because he ends chases just as quickly when he's raging whether surv is injured or not. Even getting healed quick leaves a lot of blood orbs lying around.
Out of all the killers I've played against during 2v8 he's the least fun to go against. Early/midgame he isn't too bad, but the real issue comes at the end game when there's one or two gens left, all the action is focused around a limited number of gens so he gets an absolute glut of blood orbs and is basically constantly raging. So he can easily guard and instadown anyone trying to do gens. Plus the regression in 2v8 is pretty rough. Makes for a very boring, very frustrating end game where you have to play for hatch.
The 20% improvement on turn rate is just the icing on the cake, it's huge for a half way decent oni player.
"The problem is the insta down. The free heals don't mean a huge amount against oni because he ends chases just as quickly when he's raging whether surv is injured or not. Even getting healed quick leaves a lot of blood orbs lying around."
I would say its the average 2v8 players bad sense of macro that makes Oni so strong the amount of times I have played 2v8 and have only seen a few people trying to manage themselves, healing should be done in a corner so that it takes a long time for the Oni to get there, too many people just heal nearby high traffic areas like gens and then act surprised when Oni does not have to go far for his power this is even more important by late game as of there are few gens left go heal in the area where most are already done to make him have to travel for it.
20% is not even the important part I just said that to poke fun at OP's "REDICULOUS" turn rate its the movement speed buff that gives him the extra lunge and even then with how pallet dense 2v8 is its not like you don't have a way to hold him off. Also regression is just equalised in 2v8 its 1 to 1 with how fast a single surv can repair it this can be countered by guide with a blast mine to make up the time lost difference and give a massive head start.
Overall I don't think Oni is the free win machine some say its just in 2v8 people only think about micro play and forget the macro giving the killer free pressure.
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First its legion, now its Oni who is next?
"They also gave Oni a RIDICULOUS turn rate so now he is pretty much an easy stomp if he gets a map he can free-run in, which is most of them."
Its 20% :/
So all the pallets and windows on the map just don't exist I guess.
If free heals from vials, free anti-slug and fast heals from medics are still not enough to deal with him at what point are you finally just going to go "Maybe I or a teammate just messed".
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Even when they leave out the parts when they lose these people play the game as their job, they get paid for it so they invest an ungodly amount of time in the game having experience and knowledge 99% just don't.
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2v8 plus this with a new killer with crippling weaknesses, now is a terrible time to play killer.
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How do you play the game? Do you
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Nope too late people figured out the hard-counter play and now he is unfun to play.
Pre-running/Shift W is too strong against him and can cause games against competent players feel really bad.
People who are not good at the game DC against him so its a lose/lose for Henry Players.
So back to ol'reliable The Blight! y a y
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Because the power of a killer seems to be judged by how the top level people play him.
People say blight is S tier and he is but I would say that most people do not play him at that level, the most the average blight player would be is at A tier as you need a lot of time to play him at his full potential as an S tier.
Like how many blights do you think can actually understand bump logic on the fly?
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Another point towards why the Hook and Gen system needs to be replaced.
A killer being blocked from using their own power to defend an objective is horrendous design.
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@Shroompy said:
Ive always thought of this as a few tweaks:
- Rush tokens reduced from 5 to 4
- Rush token recharge time increased from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds
- When stunned during a rush, tokens only recharge after the stun rather than during it
- Breaking a pallet consumes 2 tokens
- Increase movement speed for each consecutive rush by 3% (Base kit Blighted Crow)
- Add on pass
Honestly this is probably the best take on a blight nurf as taking anymore tokens would destroy his bump logic playstyle and does not ruin the speed people like about him.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4054178#Comment_4054178
Maybe in a comp tournament the average chase is 40-60 seconds (also you keep ignoring that I mentioned its synergy with dead man's switch, which is 45 seconds, because your argument falls apart if you actually acknowledge it), but in an average game, a sable/mikaela/renato/vittorio are going down within 25 seconds, and the snowball begins for the killer.
Trapper and Hag do not need to camp. I have played both at red ranks back before they were given buffs and the MMR system was overhauled. Also cherry picking the worst of the worst killers in the game right now as some sort of valid counterargument 😂
You realize the survivor can only make 16 meters of distance in 4 seconds right? That's the size of ONE tile, the one they were already looping. And with all the awful tiles that exist now… the math ain't mathing on your "gotcha."
You didn't invalidate anything. You know that a gen regresses during the time it's blocked? And also a survivor isn't perfectly rotating back to a blocked gen after 45 seconds, meaning it regressed even further. But you're right, having to spend another 15-30 seconds finding another generator to start from zero, while letting your hard work on the gen you got to 70% go back to zero is somehow more efficient… what?
If you required built to last in the build, why didn't you say it? This is your argument not mine, I'm not going to fill in the blanks for you. I also assume you think survivors won't be healing each other during that time because stake out and hyperfocus also proc on healing, so we're back to square one…
You are giving me random records without any context, with the only person who posted a video being hens after attempting the challenge upwards of 100 times, same with the other records. I too can also wait 100 games until I get an afk doctor or an awful ghostface player with no perks or slowdown to clock a time under 3 minutes… you really aren't proving anything with these stats. Also, I've seen games against a blight end in under 2 minutes so I'm not really sure what to tell you.
"Maybe in a comp tournament the average chase is 40-60 seconds (also you keep ignoring that I mentioned its synergy with dead man's switch, which is 45 seconds, because your argument falls apart if you actually acknowledge it), but in an average game, a sable/mikaela/renato/vittorio are going down within 25 seconds, and the snowball begins for the killer."
"DMS fights with Grimm it does not complement it" Conveniently skips this then says I ignored them, hilarious. Proof
25 second chases!? Ok thanks for just saying out loud that you are bad at the game.
No trapper and hag were chosen because they are heavily territorial I can also say knight, skull merchant as well all heavily territorial.
Gens regress at -0.25c/s so unless you just twiddling your thumbs there should be no point where you cant do anything except for Grimms 40sec burst that happens ONCE if all get hooked when the game could be over by then.
"Trapper and Hag do not need to camp" You don't play them properly then got it.
"You realize the survivor can only make 16 meters of distance in 4 seconds right? That's the size of ONE tile, the one they were already looping. And with all the awful tiles that exist now… the math ain't mathing on your "gotcha.""
Ok so you don't know how to run most map got it, also " all the awful tiles that exist now" I wish I could see your gameplay.
"You are giving me random records without any context, with the only person who posted a video being hens after attempting the challenge upwards of 100 times, same with the other records."
So you don't even have the effort to type fast gens on YT says a lot. Those records are people escaping in insane times proving this is something that is repeatable and in the vid you can even see he does so consistently and its not even he first time he has does this.
"I too can also wait 100 games until I get an afk doctor or an awful ghostface player with no perks or slowdown to clock a time under 3 minutes… you really aren't proving anything with these stats. Also, I've seen games against a blight end in under 2 minutes so I'm not really sure what to tell you."
Ok so the killer has to be AFK for you to do well?
You responded in 15 mins when the vid is 22 mins long so its impossible for you to have watched it. If you actually look at the vid you can see player like a blight who are not bad but still getting 0k in under 2.26 seconds.
A blight doing very well against all players is different to using perks to speed gens up with little to no input or skill. But hey one killer out of 42 so guess that means killer OP
look a lot of what you post reads like you don't have much knowledge of what your talking about and are just going off personal experience so I'm going to end it here as I don't want to have an all day back and forth.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4054168#Comment_4054168
10 second block for each survivor that pairs well into the pain res proc for each survivor, that then blocks for 40 seconds and can force a dead man's switch... yeah that's powerful 😀
Before gens were 80, they used to be 60. Besides if you care that much about 10 seconds on a hook state, you are a proxy camper, plain and simple.
I think you are overestimating how long 15 seconds is. Also throwing yourself at the killer to take a hit is a risky play, especially after you've just been hooked.
Blight, nurse, spirit, huntress, singularity, wesker, Krause, kaneki, Billy, chucky, etc all have abilities that make DS useless. Disabling the power for that time is something people have been begging for, at least for dash killers.
In your on paper calculation, is the survivor just standing at the generator while dead man's is active for 45 seconds? I'd rather pain res be 50% max progress than having my teammate stand on a blocked gen for half the duration of fixing a new one...
So you have to spend an entire minute hiding for 4 stacks of stake out, waste another 15 seconds on bardic to have a 50% chance to have a useless roll, all so you can do a gen in 40 seconds... when you could've just spent 90 seconds doing the gen instead of 75 seconds getting your build ready and another 40 for your build to work, and it only works once because it requires a loaded toolbox... yep you got it.
So for every chase that can be on average is about 40-60 seconds a 10 sec stop is powerful? that can only happen three times and a 40 on the fourth that can only happen once, also DMS fights with Grimm it does not complement it, its weak the game could be over before you even get to use it. Saying Grimm is good is a self-report if anything.
"Before gens were 80, they used to be 60. Besides if you care that much about 10 seconds on a hook state, you are a proxy camper, plain and simple."
You say that as if its a slur, some killer NEED to camp like trapper and hag so it means the world to them with all the basekit additions given to survs.
"Blight, nurse, spirit, huntress, singularity, wesker, Krause, kaneki, Billy, chucky, etc all have abilities that make DS useless. Disabling the power for that time is something people have been begging for, at least for dash killers."
If you cannot find a place to loop in 4 seconds that is on you a killer should not have their power shut off because they did what they are supposed to do that is crazy.
"In your on paper calculation, is the survivor just standing at the generator while dead man's is active for 45 seconds? I'd rather pain res be 50% max progress than having my teammate stand on a blocked gen for half the duration of fixing a new one..."
The calculation was a response to YOUR TAKE "70% gets blasted by pain res, grim, dead man's switch, another pain res, grim again, and all of a sudden your hard work was for nothing because the gen has regressed all the way down to 0." I gave the calculation to prove you don.t lose no where near as much as you claimed.
So you just invalidated your own point in the original post, you just said that you just go to another gen and lose little progress for it meaning its not a big deal and that the main problem your having it team mates just standing there that is a massive skill issue not on the killer if people don't want to move gen.
"So you have to spend an entire minute hiding for 4 stacks of stake out, waste another 15 seconds on bardic to have a 50% chance to have a useless roll, all so you can do a gen in 40 seconds... when you could've just spent 90 seconds doing the gen instead of 75 seconds getting your build ready and another 40 for your build to work, and it only works once because it requires a loaded toolbox... yep you got it."
No you do gens and get the value form stake out passively you don't have to follow the killer around most killer having a 32-40m terror radius is big enough that you can get value a lot just for existing. Don't pretend like you can only bring one toolbox and there isn't a perk to recharge it, people like Hens have been able to win in as little as 2min 26 seconds using perks like Bardic and 1234 (count in) so yeah its a big deal. If you don't believe me have a look for yourself.
And here are some more examples in case you say "but its just hens".
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Something eldritch or deep ocean inspired would be amazing.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4054029#Comment_4054029
Gen Regression Perks have been nerfed, yet they are still powerful, especially when paired with gen blocking perks like grim embrace.
Hook Timers are 70 seconds instead of 60. Meanwhile gens used to be 60 seconds, now they are 90 (and you have to complete 5 of them!)
Almost everyone already owned the Halloween chapter. It being free is not changing anything.
Are you running a full healing build?
Out of the past 100 matches, 100 of them I have spawned next to the other 3 survivors.
Basekit BT working as intended against tunneling and camping killers. The only people dissatisfied with this are people that do either of those two things.
I mean no offense by this, but reading this comes off as a "three glasses" moment for a killer main pretending to be a survivor player, because I don't think any survivor player would say DS being free means anything when more than half the roster has a ranged or a dash ability, making DS absolutely useless; or saying gen regression got nerfed with a straight face after your gen at 70% gets blasted by pain res, grim, dead man's switch, another pain res, grim again, and all of a sudden your hard work was for nothing because the gen has regressed all the way down to 0.
"Gen Regression Perks have been nerfed, yet they are still powerful, especially when paired with gen blocking perks like grim embrace."
Grim Embrace? Powerful? 🤣10 seconds for a hook (once) is nothing you must be trolling.
Gens used to be 80 now its 90 (10sec difference)
"Basekit BT working as intended against tunneling and camping killers. The only people dissatisfied with this are people that do either of those two things."
Oh yes BT only for tunnelers and camping killers (even though some killers need to camp like hag and trapper) because players would never use their BT to take protection hits and then speed off with the 15 sec of haste! No that could n e v e r happen…
DS is useless because of dash killers!? A 4 second stun is not enough?! What do you want their power to turn off as well!? Far from useless.
70% of a gen or 70c (charges) getting hit with a PR + DMS will regress 27c it wont even reduce the gen below half and if you add grim to the mix its 29c for a 10 sec block and 37c for a 40 fully charged one.
Meanwhile a single surv with a gen build can do a gen in less than half the time on their own and do not need to do well to achieve that either thanks to perks like Hyperfocus + Stake Out and Bardic + Full duration commodious.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053985#Comment_4053985
There's an awful lot of people who seem to think they know exactly why everyone DCs. BHVR can send out surveys on it and get real info and try to address it if they think it's truly an issue. But just upping punishments against people who are already unhappy isn't going to solve a single problem. It's just going to make people quit completely. And I know that's something people also like to say they want, but if people who play regularly are burnt out and aggravated to the extent they regularly DC it would be smarter from a business perspective to find out the actual whys and try to address them if they're consistent.
That is, if this really is a big issue. We seem to need one of these posts evey 3-7 days here but I personally see little to no DCs in my matches, and when I do, I don't really care. As killer, I couldn't care less if the whole team becomes bots. It's just one match out of however many with no DCs. As survivor, bots are more efficient than half the people in soloq.
It also doesn't help that every attempt to address survivor complaints has been shot down, creating even more resentment and discontent.
ngl when this kinda thing happens to a game I think its more of a sign of its coming end.
I have noticed that people DC a ton more lately used to mainly be survs but now it also happens with killers a lot too and I don't think any shiny new toy is going to fix it.
Its like the level of burnout is reaching its peak with the community and coming of the worst year this game had I can see why.
I think a DBD2 with a whole new overhaul is the only chance to fix everything.
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@TheGoon224 said:
honestly I’m just curious because my games have just been terrible recently
"Bing Bing Bing Bing Bing HOOORRRRRRRNNNNN" is like most games with a slow killer just cannot get a chance with killers like trapper or Ghostface anymore the game is just over before it began ):
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053522#Comment_4053522
yo The Great Father is sick, is he in the mainline SMT games too?
Nyarlathotep has multiple forms based on who has him but he is in SMT2 and Persona 2 in both the versions. (There is like 7 versions of him)
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Nyarlathotep and his power holder would make a sick killer.
Also if your a SMT/Persona fan please just post stuff out of context to confuse people.
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Decisive Strike, Unbreakable/Breakdown (Breakdown is iffiy due to maps go with UB for most cases), Dead Hard/Sprint Burst/ Lithe and We're Gonna Live Forever (WIGLF)/ Reassurance (30 sec extra hook time, can stack) / Shoulder the Bruden (Only if confident) / Resilience (Faster vault speed, will always be useful no matter what)
This will set you up to either Help yourself or someone else depending on the situation.
For a maximum value in all situations variation of the Build DS (Decisive Strike) + UB (Unbreakable) + Lithe (If you can use Dead Hard instead if your confident) + Resilience
Other than build the next most important thing is map knowledge, like running to a main build in most maps will give you a lot of value for lower effort making chases long for the killer or making them give up and go somewhere else.
If you want a person to learn maps from Mr TatorHead on YT is really good.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463526/i-just-want-more-blight-and-nurse-posts
This is so biased its would be quite impressive if it wouldnt be just so sad. The same people reasonably giving Feedback on The First are the same people that have giving reasonable feedback on Nurse and Blight for years. The cooldown is by far too low and just makes this killer super easy to play and super annoying to face cause the killer itself doesnt get punished at all for missing his attacks.
Also the only counterplay is guessing. And as survivor its not a 50-50 guess, its way worse. Thats also why hold-W is not a bit of an counter caused this is 100% predictable. LoS isnt much of an counter. Its the same as against Nurse. Good players already know how to deal with this. Counterplay is again just hoping that the killer will make a mistake, but it just doesnt matter if he does. Thats why playing against the First isnt fun at all. Its just another illusion.
But for people like you any killer that is super easy and strong is fine. Strawhat arguments at best.
"The same people reasonably giving Feedback on The First are the same people that have giving reasonable feedback on Nurse and Blight for years." And you know this how? Just Because? Also what does this add to the discussion about The First?
"The cooldown is by far too low and just makes this killer super easy to play and super annoying to face cause the killer itself doesn't get punished at all for missing his attacks."
His cool down is low because he has to hit 4 times to get a down. No punishment for missing? Have you even played against him? Holding W would not be as strong against him if missing was "not punishing" missing slows you down a lot on a 110 killer if you do not take advantage of his mistakes that's on you.
"Also the only counterplay is guessing. And as survivor its not a 50-50 guess, its way worse. Thats also why hold-W is not a bit of an counter caused this is 100% predictable. LoS isn't much of an counter. Its the same as against Nurse."
Yes its EDUCATED guessing his power should not be 100% predictable or counterable as he would just be like ghostface or trapper at the bottom where the survs have control of YOUR power.
Los is a great way to counter him as he has to guess even more it also tends to work better when people path differently and NOT predictably. This is why game sense is important you need to be able to read your opponent basic PVP fundamentals.
"Counterplay is again just hoping that the killer will make a mistake, but it just doesnt matter if he does. That's why playing against the First isnt fun at all. Its just another illusion."
No its not just hoping they suck its about good positioning and understanding game sense on both sides as well as a lot of shift W.
No the only illusion here is the one you have put on yourself leading yourself into thinking that there is not way to play against him when clearly its just you don't seem to want to engage with the game.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051861#Comment_4051861
still, his cycle isnt just "3 counterplays the killer can also counter with luck, experince or perks"
the only real thing that survivors will dislike but overall no one will consistently do is orbital hatchets,
meanwhile every the first is either using meta gen slop, aura reading or hex build. same old ######### we have 500 times before with other s-tiers.Gen-regression , Aura Reading and Hex Builds are the only good perks left what else are they supposed to use? Anti-loop? people cry about that, Haste? People cry about that as well so what are killers supposed to run that's fun?
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100% We cant have anything new without people screaming "OP plz nurf"
Like I swear most of the people who still "play" this game are just toxic burnouts that log on just to get angry but dont want to fully stop due to time/cost investment.
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@ralecgos said:
Guys. Stop only reading the title…
The stagger feels bugged out. It's like it's 0.05 seconds longer than it's meant to be. Ever since BL was bugged and you could still hear falling grunts. It feels OFF.
Also, you'd still be exhausted. I didn't say remove the exhaustion.
Ok lets read the literal next sentence you make.
"Remove the stagger delay completely or give it another second of haste from 3 to 4 seconds" hmmm wonder why people reacted negatively🤔
If the perk is bugged you should post evidence in the bug reporting section of the forums and ask for a fix, not ask for a compensation buff in exchange.
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The reason for why killer has felt so miserable is due to the balance of power being slowly shifted over the years.
Gen regression used to be viable now most gen regression perks are bad/incompatible. On the flip side Gen progression perks have become more available with new good progression perks which far out weigh Gen regression in terms of value.
Chase perks have also had a boost and are extremely powerful against slow killers with perks like vigil or ghost notes with Sprint burst, dramaturgy, lithe … and so on with low down times making slow killers so painful to play leading to perks like bamboozle become pretty much mandatory for a lot of M1 killers.
Healing has shifted so much over the years killer anti-heal has been reduced heavily while surv healing has been massively boosted with so many options for whatever your fancy be it a soloq build or a communicated team one with the only killers being able to deal with the builds are either built around it like plague and legion or just strong enough they can force through it like blight or nurse.
Base kit additions over the years have also made things worse as before surv had to think and take care about things like macro v micro play while today macro play is completely hated slugging is seen as evil, tunnelling is also bad and playing a killer that leans into a more macro playstyle like knight is also hated resulting in nurfs to killers like knight, base kit additions like 15sec hook protection, insanely fast anti camp bars (also giving free info), extra HUD info, 8 gen event limit, hook grabs being removed and a lot of maps being extremely dense with resources like windows and pallets being a bit too abundant/powerful.
Leading to current day DBD where in order to keep up people resort to using strong killers like blight in order to have a chance at winning.
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yh ngl I do feel that way the only thing that goes wrong as surv for me these days are bad teammates and cheaters.
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The problem with this is that is all assuming that BHVR even properly listens to their consultants in the first place as they have been on record shown to disregard the opinions or voices of people that are pretty close to them (Case in point the Chandler Riggs disaster) Otz and Chandler were both ignored and BHVR just stubbornly insisted they knew better.
Then there was the more recent stream where a dev was visibly confused why a map like The Game would have more slugging incidents and when the chat said "pallets" he had no clue how to process that.
If they had been talking to consultants at all you would think they would have a faint idea what "pallet saves" are but they don't even have this knowledge of the game let alone any higher forms needed to balance it in a much larger scale beyond that.
And the general direction for balancing overall has been pretty strange.
Fog vials come out die and gets abandoned with the same happening with the Krause.
We have nurfs constantly to gen-regression perks while gen-progression perks are fine despite the massive imbalance between the two, we have an exhaustion meta that has not changed since forever and they add more perks to tack on to them like ghost notes and vigil.
Massively popular perks that are quite common to see but nothing has happened to any of them, meanwhile we have perks like battery included and unbound getting hit with nurfs for no reason makes the balancing feel like its mostly just a guy blindfolded taking shots at a dart board on what gets hit next.
And then that not even to mention when they add nurfs/buffs in and call it "Quality of life". It seems they respond more to shock and vibes than anything else and this approach has made the meta miserable as its always the same.
It is possible to get their act together if they wanted games like Helldivers have show that even after a balance disaster there is a chance to fix it but that all depends if BHVR wants to seriously take time to understand their own game.
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Feng with the rat build.
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Theatre Mode
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Okay then bring your strong swf against a low tier killer and surprise you get more blights.
Blight is the best killer in the game that is why people use him likewise when people run perks like sprint burst, lithe, dead hard, vigil, windows just hard META surv perks and a low tier killer goes against that they probably go "hmm this is not fun" yet we are at a point that in order to beat a good META swf you need to play a strong killer like blight also running the META.
So if you want killers with a power level comprable to blight getting tuned down you would have to accept a reduction of power on the other side a perks like Sprint Burst dont have a justification for being as strong as they are without S tiers being around.
As for bm there is nothing that can be done about that, overly toxic comp player will always exist from bming blights to tea-bagging aces is just the nature of a PVP game.
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1 - Singularity
2 - Springtap
3- Knight
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The reason why killers only use the same perks (Gen Regression and Aura) is because most other killer perks are just ineffective by either being too weak or hard countered by the surv meta.
As stated by Mech above a lot of killer aura perks have a cooldown or have a specific requirement to activate which can determined in game with game sense or will outright be told to you like with Weave Attunement.
Also I think the argument for Nurse is unfair, yes its powerful on nurse but the other 40 killers in the game should not have to suffer just due to one, the only thing for nurse to change would be that she cannot see auras while using her power.
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Considering the hyper casualification of the game they will try to put something in to appease casual players some kind of new system/item/broken perk.
I just hope this update the killer actually has a unique power that isn't recycled so its at least interesting long term.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037948#Comment_4037948
Where did I say that killers were a monolith?
I never said your POV did not matter, but again - Deliverance is not in the top ten and for a good reason. You cannot coordinate with others without popping your Deliverance early. There is no indicator of when Deliverance is in play, so if you're using it in SoloQ, you're opting to pop it before someone comes up to you or allowing the unhook to prevent the broken status effect.
Dead Hard is an anti-tunneling perk, you get unhooked, and if a killer is still on you - you can Dead Hard and tank the hit. Arguably all exhaustions perks like Lithe and Sprint Burst technically are anti-tunneling as they're able to get you out of a situation to prevent being tunneled outright. If you're arguing that Decisive Strike is not anti-tunnel and complaining that it's used with Unbreakable, that is a you problem when you're taking the risk. Should DS users not use UB if a killer decides to wait out their DS?
If you're gonna tunnel me or any other survivor out of the game, you're going to have to work for the hook itself. I'm not (nor other survivors) will give you free pressure and allow you to continually hook to cause a 1v3.
Also, Clean Break is a situational and conditional perk - with the Syringe changes, it should be looked at for what it is. Clean Break will not have as much utility, especially in SoloQ due to information and the fact that you have to cause yourself to be broken while being specifically healed by another survivor + the 60 seconds to actually trigger the full healing state.
The rest of your comment I will not touch on as I do not have issues with PR myself.
Look at the thread your in its complaining about killers only using two perks you may not have said it but we are in a thread with the pretext that killers only use two perks.
Yes but you only spoke about from your perspective, you said "Even when I play, you do not see every survivor use Deliverance, lol." Which is completely anecdotal but then you go on to say "Deliverance is not in the top ten and for a good reason." Top 10 of what? Im going to assume nightlights stats and yes it not top 10 its currently in 35 higher than other perks that have been spoken about before such as OTR and Conviction. Point being that just because that its pick rate is not high does not mean its a fair perk (remember it only needs to be one one out of the four) with perk like this being more common against more sweaty teams so people who would be in a higher bracket would encounter this more than a mid player would.
Dead Hard is not anti-tunnel as you can save its use for anytime after a first unhook so if you get hooked first in the match then the killer goes on to hook everyone else you will still have access to Dead Hard and are we really going to say SB and lithe are anti-tunnel perks? that would mean anything that gives you a burst of power in the moment is anti-tunnel which is demonstrably false tunnelling is just returning to the same hook to go after the unhooker immediately so an anti-tunnel perk should prevent just that like Decisive strike, OTR and Borrowed Time does to say a few.
Dead Hard is just a pocket 3rd health state that you get for losing, not what I would call healthy perk design a better example of a fair endurance perk is Metal of Man as you need to go out of your way to get it with some risk involved. Which is why clean break should function as it is because having an automatic heal while you do something else is huge its why needles used to be such a problem ass they were too useful in and out of chase for a free health state allowing survs to be insanely efficient.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037895#Comment_4037895
Even when I play, you do not see every survivor use Deliverance, lol.
Sure, you have a point on DH or DS (anti-tunneling, by the way!). Other survivor use Lithe, Sprint Burst, Deja Vu, Windows of Opportunity, Made For This, etc. Survivors are not a monolith and typically you will see variation.
If we're complaining about survivors using specific perks, I'd like to point you at the fact that a lot of survivors perks, along with killer perks are conditional. I tried playing with Clean Break yesterday and even that's conditional because I have to heal someone (Botany Knowledge) and be healed and then hit the button. It would have been much better if I could just retain the ability to pop my Clean Break whenever without relying on someone to heal me first of all.
Typically, this is why Behavior should focus more in line on perks or rework perks instead of leaving a lot of them to be conditional. No reason for Road Life to be as conditional as it is, along with Michonne and Rick perks. Same for the Invocations, too restricting but that's on par for Behavior.
So you never see it so its not prevalent enough to be a problem? Only your pov matters? I see Deli quite often maybe I just go against a higher calibre.
Dead Hard is not an anti-tunnel perk it does not expire after time all it take it to be hooked once (Losing to the killer, by the way!) Decisive strike can be used aggressively often paired with Unbreakable so they can get away no matter how bad the mistake on them or the team or even just fake a gen to try and force value out of it (wow such anti-tunnel!).
Survivors are a not a monolith but killers are? Seems one sided.
Clean break should not just be available to pop on your own, the whole point of the perk is you take a risk for an automatic heal that lets you be extra efficient for it like healing while doing a gen.
I would say that a huge problem with a lot of the best surv perks its that they give too much for doing nothing or just losing take Botany for example I would say that its old version when it decreased efficiency with med kits was it most fair as you had to give up something for the strong passive boost, now its just free and this kind of perk design reduced the overall skill of the game as there is no risk to using these perks.
Meanwhile I would like to point out that all gen regression perks require the killer to be winning to work, Pain Res is a scourge perk that of the bat has an RNG problem of scourge hook spawns, then a killer has to down a surv near enough to a hook, then it only works once per person and on top of all that its a -20% not a flat number a percentage meaning this perks effect is essentially wasted if it hits a gen with little progression.
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I wish I would stop going against DS+DH+UB+DELI+ every second chance perk under the sun, but one can dream.
Are all suvs cats or something? They all have 9 lives.
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It was an awful system that made aggressive use of "anti-tunnel" too easy to do as you could easily body block with the 30 seconds of BT then run away with the haste and elusive that made getting away super easy.
Then you had the "anti-slug" that just gave you base kit UB for the rest of the match which was busted as it meant the killer could get no pressure from slugging as there was no reason to get off a gen when you could let your teammate pick themselves up, which in a TEAM game to do so much on your own is insane.
Couple that with the fact they did nothing about gen speeds or gen perks in the update meant that if it went live there would be no point in trying to play killer as there would be no way to create pressure so anyone wanting to play to win would be shafted.
And even by the end of it they still gave the extra 15 secs of BT making end game escapes pretty much guaranteed as well as making it so the anti-camp sky rockets in progress after 20 secs meaning killers that are more territorial like trapper and cannibal are even worse than before.
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You cant get rid of tunnelling as its caused by a core game design feature if you took it out killer be dead same for gen rushing but both exists due to the core gameplay loop.
The only way this can ever be changed is to change the core design, so realistically the only option is for DBD2 to be a thing where they get the chance to change up the core gameplay loop with something else.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034772#Comment_4034772
I fail to see what machine I play the game on has any affect on what happend and my account of the event.
It didnt get recorded, but it still happened and the match details can be pointed out to BHVR if they were skeptical about this.
But BHVR isnt skeptical about this, by random chance this is completely possible and they are fine with that over making changes that eventually got shouted down by the community.
The question this poses is: If a Killer can kill a Survivor all three hookstates within 1.5min is that acceptable and fair game to you?
To me, that is preposterous and it speak either of gross imbalance, ease at which a Killer can do that or that their MMR system needs to be WAY better. And my answer was they should make changes to how easy it is for the Killer to do this, like asking why does the Killer get notified when a Survivor is unhooked. Like a Dinner bell being rung, to me that is only something that helps tunnelers.
My point about that is that tunneling should not get extra help.
I mentioned platform as they have ways of background recording for future reference.
And I said this as even if you feel like is the most unfair thing to ever happen, no one can really validate that without seeing what happened as there are just too many variables to know without.
A vid of the match would help miles as its not the first time people die so quickly but small mistakes or events from any player can lead to such an event. (Wish theatre mode was a thing)
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034604#Comment_4034604
From the people posting here, Clearly the problem is I didnt start running when I was not in a chase and the Killer wasnt near me and I was half healed. Who cares if you are being healed, the Blight is across the map I have to assume he will be back any second even if hes chasing someone else.
ngl with posts like this we really need to see gameplay as there are just too many variables to consider.
Do you play on steam or a console like ps5?