CautionaryMary
CautionaryMary
About
- Username
- CautionaryMary
- Joined
- Visits
- 1,439
- Last Active
Comments
-
@NeverSolus said:
There are better perks, there are more effective perks. SB went a long, long time without adjustment and it was a non-trigger speed boost that didn't require positioning or interaction with anything but the shift key to trigger. It should be a weaker haste than lithe, for instance, which requires a vault. It should be meaningfully weaker, and now it is, as it can be done anywhere.
And, frankly speaking, SB just led to people getting tunneled. It's a good thing that it took a back seat. There are other valid options to replace it, so I don't particularly understand people being as heated about the nerf to SB specifically.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113449#Comment_4113449
Your tone was fine. Some people here take things to personal places rather quickly in an emotional plea they employed to garner them some false authority or clout. It's becoming more and more common lately in the forums. Don't let it bother you. Not that you need to be told.
Yeah, I mean it's whatever for me.
I take multi-month breaks for a reason.
I gave the exact same footage to a killer main friend and he literally saw what I described - using SB to gain distance away from her beam. I don't care for validation on the forums, the upvote, or downvote system and most of the time I'm talking to people who just look at the map as if it's some type of plain where objects don't matter, just cooldown math.
It's quite interesting, I always say I'd love to talk to survivor mains and then I come on here to divulge information and get called aggressive - yet I talk to killer mains for the most part, even if a disagreement occurs, I can still walk away from the conversation thinking it was an alright conversation.
I think it's just the vast majority of the survivor playerbase looks at specific things, go to content creators, and regurgitate talking points they see. I'm not saying killer players do not do that either, but even when I can disagree with them - they do not take it personally and have a meltdown - so, it is what it is.
Edit: ah yes, if people choose to downvote the comment here. - you are all participating in a bandwagon fallacy. - regardless, I think this will be my last post on these forums, see you all in the fog.
-
@pidgeon said:
Everybody knows why killers do this, it's moreso it being unfun to play against and because of that people want it removed from the game.
Also note: you shouldn't be tunnelling at 5 gens, if you are tunnelling at 4-5 gens you just are objectively bad at killer.
I mean, MomoSeventh tunneled me at 5 gens on Hawkins - I don't know if you would classify him as a bad killer.
But yes, we all know why killers tunnel, slug, and proxy camp. It gets much more prevalent the higher you get in MMR.
I don't have issues with tunneling, slugging, proxy camping, or whatever else you can think of. The only issue I have had is to just own it, I remember versing a comp/winstreak player (I will not say their name) who just wouldn't own up to them tunneling for Remember Me value and outright claiming they two hooked everyone.
Like nah, you tunneled - own it.
-
@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113392#Comment_4113392
I am happy to concur with you on the largest spectrum here. We don't often agree so I'm going to take this one with a shot of whiskey and celebrate! 😂
Haha, I sincerely think if killer mains came over and talked to me - we would have quite a lot of sensible conversations.
Thank you for the whiskey shot and enjoy your day, fellow traveler.
-
@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113377#Comment_4113377
again, I have no idea why you're being so aggressive… I dont use SB and dodge 95% of beam snipes just by moving… SB is not really being used well when you just have to take two steps to the left or the right, again 40s VS 6s… you can play however you wan't I am just stating a fact, you can physically move in time without SB.
Being so aggressive, ah.
Okay, then do what you wanna do - I'll do what I wanna do, Platinum still died and was struggling due to OOO and frantically panicking over having an S tier snipe at her Eleven model.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you over tone-policing, think whatever you want about "aggression".
Apparently being analytical on the DBD forums is aggression.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113215#Comment_4113215
So, what would me saying their names exactly accomplish? Is it just a random "please say bitcoin" schtick? They play their set of stronger killers because they are enjoyable and strong. Hell, I played blight shortly after his release for a long time because I enjoyed him until collisions started changing every other patch and it got annoying. There's a reason why you don't see them willingly play weaker killers like Clown or Demo often outside of a scrim/comp environment (or in some cases killer requests like Numi) since it's not really fun to play a killer who loses to perks more often than not. Agency is one hell of a drug.
If you could TRULY justify someone like Ghoul being S tier show me comp results where he is consistently on par with Nurse or Blight in terms of hook stages since you want to talk about the peak of a killer's skill ceiling as once again, I take competent players in mind when I talk about tier lists. Other than that, I'll take my stance or him being low A.Alright, I have given you the floor and you didn't even do it.
This is my last response to you, also enjoy this Clown footage.
https://youtu.be/oRL6hXm8I7U?is=nVUaVyV4IdHgQ0V2Before you're like, people only play Clown in comp/scrims, I've faced a comp Clown in pubs. They do exist, odd that you think killers can only play in comp/scrims, but how are they practicing? In pubs.
-
@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113372#Comment_4113372
I guess my point hinges on the fact that I just treat close range as not existing, much the way that say, Slinger doesn't engage at 40m. No one says slinger is 'weak' at that range, he just doesn't engage there at all. Not to argue the point mind you, as I think you're still correct. She's just a better artist. I also agree most killers are more similar than not.
I just struggle to say she's weak at something that, in my opinion and playstyle, she just shouldn't be doing at all.For sure, I think for Deathslinger - a lot of people love to clip farm with ranged killers, lol. I still to this day get surprised when someone who is ranged wants to go for a clippy moment like Huntress with a hatchet when I'm literally in their face or Deathslinger when shooting point blank when they can hit the M1.
But yes, I would argue for the average killer community that Deathslinger is stronger than Judgment in a 1v1, but that's because Deathslinger is more simplistic. If you miss your beam, you will be penalized a little by the fact that you move slowly and will have to now track the survivor and try again with your beam.
Deathslinger on the other hand can immediately zone the survivor and shoot through obstacles, while triggering the mending bar, which acts as a pressure point for the survivor in question regarding the chase.
I will agree that not dealing with someone in your face, sure - but at some point, you have to do what Negoose does and close down the loop by either zoning the survivor completely, pelting them through the object, or curving around it.
Otherwise, you will be at a massive disadvantage if the survivor knows how to loop and you're in a close range 1v1 area.
-
@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113361#Comment_4113361
I think the reasons why Blight and Nurse are considered S tier is simply because their counterplay is "Don't let them see you." Along with the fact that they have some the best two tap potential in the game, map pressure, ect.
Daily reminder that 90% of the player base does not know how to play the game on a skilled level, so for the most part tier list are arbitrary for them however I do think it helps skilled players who want to get better at the game and get a better view of the meta.
Oh yes, for sure - I completely agree with your ending statement.
It's why I do not try to put down other survivor mains who do not operate on my level. I mean, I am a full time student and play DBD in my off time when I feel like doing it + single player stuff (4k hours is not the norm nor am I saying that it should be). I honestly think if I had to guess the average survivor most definitely has less than 2k hours, I would think most DBD veterans that played around the time I came in 2021/2022 probably have moved onto other games (such as TCM or just didn't like the direction that DBD was going - look at Distortion as a prime example of that).
I would completely disagree with the idea that you shouldn't let them see you, lol. You can utilize line of sight blockers and predictions, you can predict what a Nurse and Blight will do - it's not like you can't mechanically out-counterplay them. I vehemently disagree that to win against Nurse, just don't let them see you. - again video footage.
Nurse:
https://youtu.be/PX3oxC8dO3U?is=RW-d3getehFJOzT_Blight:
https://youtu.be/lBRUCghWZ4E?is=vKngdo0Y2O4BiyjVI will agree with your last sentiment, but you lose me in the prior text - but sure, for the average playerbase, sure - if you don't know how to loop or read tiles, sure, just avoid being found but that is not good advice if you want to climb to high MMR.
-
@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113363#Comment_4113363
you can move after the beam starts coming and still dodge it, that's literally all I am saying… SB doesn't really add anything to the equation.
If that is the case, why did my teammates in the video not do that? I went down once that whole trial, yet look at the randoms? Hm.
Also quit moving the goalposts, literally Platinum had a full meta slave build + OOO due to Naymeti touting it, yet she went down multiple times.
Dead Hard didn't do anything for her, Adrenaline obviously didn't do anything for her, Resilience only helped with gen speeds.
Literally in the video, you see Platinum struggling and running behind me begging to reset - amazing.
I rest my case.
-
@NeverSolus said:
I don't find her weak in close range. Just ignore close range survs, and you're fine. If someone comes within five to ten meters of you, ignore their existence and go back to sniping. Easy as. Eventually the 5m surv will slip up and put themselves in a position to feed you an M1, or they'll go away. If they just stand there, well, then they aren't doing gens now are they? Easy enough. Ignore anyone close and keep hitting the distance shots. Rinse, lather, repeat.
Slingshot if you think you're good, but frankly speaking the survs that come within 5m are normally there because they feel confident they can dodge your slings, so in my experience you're better off ignoring them entirely.If you're ignoring a survivor close range, you cannot argue that she isn't weak in a 1v1 close range encounter.
She inevitably is a long range sniper, it is why I say that survivors should fundamentally break the habit of healing at hook or doubling on gens when versing her.
She in my eyes is just a more lethal Artist with the cooldown speed of Henry (I don't know the exact numbers because I am not sitting here doing DBD math when I load into a trial and go based on visual cues for the most part).
She is good if being piloted by someone who knows how to predict and curve their beam (Negoose) but in the average killer hands? They will struggle, just like average survivor mains will struggle against certain killers. It's why I don't really engage with nerf said killer or whatever because the person writing whatever it is is just upset that due to whatever happened in the trial occurred, scapegoat it elsewhere, and just demand nerfs.
In my eyes, I don't really see any issue with any killer as long as you know their limitations. I do strongly believe that it truly depends on the skill and hours played, I mean I didn't play the PTB at all. I never watch PTBs, I just go based off hands-on experience as I am a hands-on learner and would prefer to make my own opinions instead of parroting what a YouTuber says about something.
So, ultimately speaking she struggles in 1v1s unless you take the time to fundamentally master her along with similar people that phase through objects. - a lot of the killers in this game believe it or not are sorta similar to one another in some capacity, it's why I compare her to Artist and Henry.
I could honestly if I wanted to draw parallels with every single killer if I wanted to, but that'd be boring so yes.
-
@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113197#Comment_4113197
I Honestly think it's great against Judgement, I like to see the beam coming and I just SB away from the gen.
The Judgements Beam is on a 6 second cooldown, SB has a 40 second cooldown… how is that a great use of SB?
Would you like video footage? Okay.
Here you go.
-
https://youtu.be/YqBlsGRGcLU?is=31E19I01xAzaF0CD
I will edit and add that I to this day do not understand that people think a Judgment is going to spam and hit you eventually with a 6 second cooldown. Just because you have a short cooldown doesn't necessarily mean you will hit me if I know how to read tile geometry, abandon loops that I know will not work for me against said killer, and just you know - as shown in the video, you can sit on a generator, see the beam coming, and literally SB away from being hit.
If you don't have SB, guess what? You have to prerun to not be hit so much, look at Platinum with Object of Obsession (which I would argue is terrible against Judgment) and her getting sniped multiple times due to not having SB.
-
@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113215#Comment_4113215
I'm pretty sure Tier Lists have criteria for this exact reason, most of the time its based around the average playerbase. Obviously every killer played at the top level WILL stomp survivors, I mean look at Quiet kills Epidemy ect. They play "bottom tiers" and still stomp every single lobby.
The reason why A tiers exist is because for the average player it COULD be S tier, the only thing holding Hillbilly back would be Indoor Maps or hard to maneuver areas.
The only thing that holds killers like Singularity & Twins from being S tier is the fact that communication & antislugging perks literally gut these killers.
I suppose, but you can make the same argument for Kaneki.
I told my friend who was struggling on Trickster's Delusion as Kaneki (even though technically it's a hybrid map: indoor portions with long street stretches being outdoors) along with the clutter, I told him directly as he is a Wesker and Kaneki main (he plays others but those are the main two he plays and enjoys) that those killers also have issues with bump collision and clutter around the map (that map is well known for all the clutter it has).
There is a give and take with all killers, same for Nurse and Blight - you can literally loop a Blight back and forth against a rock as shown with DOCDBD here in his video:
https://youtu.be/JDeDaDflXz0?is=0XIGSgWLorMoF3gnAt the 2:32 mark, you can clearly see DOCDBD and I have done it in my own videos that you can routinely cause the Blight to lose its rushes if you capitalize on line of sight blockers - the same for Nurse as well, so the whole point is that every single killer as I said in another comment has a give and take to it.
Sure, not many people are as skilled as I or Doc, but the point still stands that if we are talking about counterplay - all killers in the game has fundamental counterplay, just entertainment DBD doesn't show it to the masses that is the survivor community sadly (which leads to arbitrary tier lists in the first place.)
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113209#Comment_4113209
Do you not understand what borderline means? He's still on one side (A tier) but one change could easily make him B tier. For someone that doesn't like tier lists you seem to engage with them a lot more than I think someone should. As for skill ceiling yes it can make a killer better when played at absolute peaks. But due to survivors' current strength and when playing well to those strengths that's where he can fall short whereas Nurse and Blight can have a significantly easier time. A LOT of people relegate S tier to the absolute broken tier and many, MANY don't consider Ghoul to be broken anymore. When you ask "is this killer S tier?" You really ask are they the same strength as Nurse or Blight. Billy fit that roll when they first added overdrive but after some tuning down to multiple parts of his kit he sits comfortable near the top of A tier and can teeter into S tier depending on the current state of balance in the game and a lot of people would agree with that. Ghoul was S tier when he first released as he COULD brute force literally everything but once again after tuning down he's dropped a good margin.
Ad-hominem, try again.
I am engaging with you because I am challenging you on how fundamentally broken and disconnected they are from the average game.
I will ask once more and if you dodge it again, this is my last time of talking to you: What is Finesse, Remylea, Numia, BleakBTW, and Negoose in your eyes? You think they just picked up those characters, found broken playstyles or (in your eyes Nurse and Blight are the only broken characters (???)) to justify S tier.
You do know the game is a constant back and forth? I have no clue why people think people who play killer are some true deity Gods that unlocked 100% efficiency and cannot lose if they're playing Blight/Nurse but then when a survivor loops said S tier, that player is just a bb killer.
Makes no sense, by that logic anytime a killer player gets a kill they're facing bb survivors who don't know how to loop, faceplant a wall, and run in straight pathways, and therefore killer is not that strong.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound? I give you one more chance to talk and actually say their names and if not, this conversation is an utter waste of my time.
-
@KorghanisAgain said:
Doctor does not make me scream inside a locker, why would Jason?
My feedback is that that is highly inconsistent and lowers the amount of counterplay, which Jason encounters could really use for a more healthy balance.
Don't even get me started on the crouch and you still scream mechanic.
Inb4 someone tells me you should crouch and be completely sitting still to prevent it, nah - I am not doing all of that and I will still to this day say that Behavior promotes anti-macro when they released Jason on the survivor end. I just run around at this point, you crouch - you still scream, so just come 1v1 me Jason.
-
@100PercentBPMain said:
its a fair trade for never needing to catch up to survivors even as a 110 killer. if I want to hit people close I'll play any other killer in the game
Yeah, there are drawbacks to every single killer in the game (yes, I'm talking to you Nurse and Blight) - fundamentally, every single killer in this game has counterplay to them.
Judgment is weak when in a 1v1 situation unless of course you're playing with someone with wild prediction-based trajectory and knowing how to curve around a rock as the survivor is going around it or clipping them through it.
-
@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113207#Comment_4113207
At very least it should be basekit to shown when your aura red by killer.
Yeah, I said that when they announced Distortion being nerfed and then we get Eleven with We See You.
Behavior essentially said, "Hey, you want to know when the killer aura reads you? Buy Eleven and equip We See You."
People forget that Behavior is a company at the end of the day, they release perks to make you buy the character for more money in their pocket. They will never implement a tracker to let you know when your aura is read and any killer main will respond to just equip We See You.
Behavior dug the grave they did when they nerfed Distortion and release Predator and Zanshin Tactics to become aura reading, they know what they're doing.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113200#Comment_4113200
I would because when ghoul requires super oppressive perks like Blood Favor or multiple gen regressions to pull off what he does it doesn't scream S tier to me especially when probably one less mistake on the survivors' end would have left at least a 2 out with both sides bringing the sweatiest stuff when Nurse and Blight would have probably had a 4k at 1 gen left vs that same squad. As for demolish the average player base… the average player is surprisingly bad at dbd but people don't tend to notice cause perks play a huge part in games so the results in the end usually doesn't make them look as bad. All it takes is ONE weak link and the match against any of the A-B tiers is a decent boost in their chance to 3-4k. Like I said I take tiers with competent players into account and not the average. That's the whole point of 99% of tier lists.
I just don't see current Ghoul being anywhere near S tier unless you consider stomping matches of the average player base a testament to the power of a killer.Answer what I said prior.
You cannot logically tell me that the players that I mentioned prior cannot unlock the highest level of tier possible of skill ceiling and you tell me that Finesse (Kaneki) is B tier.
This is why I don't like tierlists at all.
And what are you ranking Judgment? What about Negoose? Lmao.
-
@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113051#Comment_4113051
This would honestly be so much better. Not even good players get much distortion value simply because you have to be in chase and forcing chase is objectively a bad play.
I mean, regardless - as I am aware this thread occurred due to Judgment, I don't think Distortion is the play for this type of killer. You're barely in chase and even if we go back to being in the killer's terror radius, do you really want to roam around the map trying to collect your tokens against a Judgment?
I think ultimately speaking due to how prevalent aura reading has become and the general overlap that aura reading has, We See You is just objectively better. I'm not against putting it back at 3 tokens, but the perk in my humble opinion, has just been powercreeped by the massive amounts of aura and We See You. I am honestly rethinking my build on Eleven and probably will outright toss Distortion off of my builds, as We See You is just vastly superior but this is coming from someone who isn't afraid of taking chase and can go from tile to tile and chain loops to extend my chase, but I understand why people want Distortion to actively avoid chase, I didn't use it that way - more-so popping a generator and the killer not seeing me with BBQ and Chili but the game has just way too much aura for me to justify it being a good perk anymore.
It's been handicapped so much and just outright binned for me, I just cannot see the value of it after using We See You so much when facing Judgment.
I'll even add that We See You gives a map wide benefit to your team, meanwhile what does Distortion do? Just hide your aura to prevent chase. I am honestly of the opinion again, it's a dated perk since Behavior has doubled down on aura reading.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113189#Comment_4113189
Blight and Nurse as the true S tiers. Both can down with power with ease and have way less counterplay than there is to Ghoul in a loop. The chase plan against them is purely win 50/50s meanwhile Ghoul you can actually play against a double back. Also I say borderline meaning he's basically on the verge to dropping down to B tier from even a small nerf. Thats what I mean by "hes the new Wesker". Weskers strength dropped considerably when the infection off hook was set to 1 and the full infection only gave 4% hindered instead of 8%.
Meanwhile Ghoul is high mobility and free first hit. Everything else is playing cut offs (which require leap addons to do consistently) or M1s which those aren't great. You can vault right through Ghoul whenever he vaults with power because they removed the hitbox for it as a nerf, so kidnap tech is just gone against people who are competent. That's the whole thing with tiers you place things higher depending on how well they fare against at the very least COMPETENT players and not the lower denominators. Ghoul quickly falls short but not completely out whenever the survivors actually know how to play against a Ghoul.So, Nurse and Blight are the only true S tiers you can think of?
Where is Spirit aka Remylea, Hillbilly aka Numia, Jason, Henry, etc? This is why I find tier lists massively disconnected from actual gameplay.
I have faced extremely great players of all killer sets, such as Numia, BleakBTW (Dracula), Remylea, and Finesse (Kaneki).
To only have those two up there when a Remylea and Numia can absolutely demolish the average playerbase here unless we are talking about baseline, but regardless it's still massively underselling someone like Finesse who plays Kaneki.
Like, you wouldn't watch Finesse and call him a borderline B to A tier killer, lmfao.
I'll even go a step further, would you say Negoose's Judgment is lower than S tier?
-
@tjt85 said:
As a former Sprint Burst enjoyer, I've completely given up the perk in most of my builds. It's still in my stealthy Ghost Notes / Lightweight build, but it's mostly there just to get the build activated. Might be useful to the better loopers out there but it's a dead perk slot to me now.
It was my only fun Meta perk and since don't like any of the other exhaustion perks (aside from Head On), I've moved onto running my goofy sub optimal builds instead. Been having fun with my 2V8 themed build (Alert + Any Means Necessary + Urban Evasion + Iron Will) and my Alien: Isolation build (Urban Evasion + Diversion + Premonition + Chem Trap or some other crafting perk).
Interesting, as a player who loved Sprint Burst and actively used it years ago I'll still use the perk.
I honestly think it's great against Judgment, I like to see the beam coming and I just SB away from the gen. I still probably will use the perk predominantly due to the fact that it just has the on-demand function of getting distance, along with me enjoying the high skill ceiling of 99ing your SB.
If I was to replace SB, I probably would just do double exhaustion. The thing with Lithe is most people typically use Lithe in chase builds, so it's more micro gameplay based while I prefer to play more macro centered, so like I enjoy Smash Hit/Lithe but the issue mainly for me is that you are highly dependent on windows and while trying to go for window vaults, you can get hit or even downed trying to get the speed you need. - not saying Lithe is a bad perk by any means, you're just more limited unless of course you are using micro perks with it (Finesse, Resilience, etc). I probably would just adopt Dramaturgy or Overcome with Lithe as a secondary perk but I don't know really, I just don't like the hyperdependence you have with a Lithe.
I don't like Head On, so there's that.
I will add: ultimately, I would prefer to have one exhaustion perk as a whole, so I guess I'd choose Lithe or Dramaturgy if I had to pick one if SB was utterly unusable - I wouldn't claim SB is that by a long shot.
Balanced Landing is just far too situational for me to justify it as a single perk and Dead Hard is too situational once more (2 uses, yikes) but I respect Dead Hard players regardless.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112717#Comment_4112717
I say he's the new Wesker as hes basically the gatekeeper of A tier. If you can perform consistently better than Ghoul you are A tier. You can notice the drop in strength against good players after all the nerfs he got. The incredibly reliance on leap addons like coffee and satchel for cutoffs or else you just don't have the time to do it.
What do you label as the true S tiers?
Originally you said, "He's bordering on highest of B tier." then you shifted the goalpost back to A tier.
I mean, Kaneki for all the stuff that he has in his full fledged kit is essentially a higher map mobility and presence over Wesker. This is why I am genuinely confused why you are comparing Wesker to Kaneki, not to like belittle Kaneki mains or whatever but you are more penalized as Wesker as messing up a dash compared to messing up a cut off from a Kaneki.
Wesker like I said can accidentally overextend his distance, then you have to walk, wait for your charges, and retry.
A Kaneki on the other hand, sure they can overextend or accidentally hit a window by messing up their kagune leap entirely, but he has the map mobility to overcorrect that much easier than a standalone Wesker. This is not including the fact that, as I've said many times - Kaneki has built-in tracking via the bite indicator showing up on a survivor, whereas Wesker has to rely on a more tracking skill set that a Kaneki doesn't need to necessarily rely on.
As I've said before here, you can literally load in as Kaneki on a bush formatted map, and easily find people due to that bite indicator doing the work for you. I am not a Kaneki hater by any stretch of the imagination, but I will always respect a Wesker main (even though I genuinely hate Wesker and his hitboxes) any day over a pure Kaneki. Do I think Kaneki takes no skill? No. But to compare apples and oranges to two different killers with different skill sets, powers, fundamentally different gameplay loops, and the bite indicator is overlooking the sheer amount of information Kaneki has over other S and A tiers.
-
@SaltyPotatoRebel said:
My issue is that no flashlights, DH doesn't activate and neither does DS. Seriously we are 4 patch works away from them just tying up survivors and just letting the killer smack us and hook. So unfun
Are people really this reliant on Dead Hard?
Like, I'm not trying to be mean but I just do not understand the sentiment. I am so used to people that I play with adapting, we share information with one another about what perks are good against her (I actually converted my friend who is a DIE-HARD Distortion user to become a We See You guy because Distortion does nothing against her.
It's odd to me to read people not wanting to like switch their builds up, but then I remind myself that the average player plays the same perk build load out day in and day out, same playstyle - probably why people hate Nurse and Henry because they don't operate on the plane of loop tightly and just play like Ayrun with 360s, window baits, and the plethora amount of other stuff I see from "entertainment" DBD - just shocking.
-
OP, being sent to the shadow realm (I'm now going to start using that because I like Yu-Gi-Oh, but anyways) ~ similar to Pyramid Head, being exiled is literally a fundamental mechanic that is different from the average hook cycle.
If you were to let's say, make exile a hook mechanic - you have essentially net-buffed her. There is a give and take for this, if you were to make the Exile a hook mechanic - how would it interact with perks like Pain Resonance? You have to hook a survivor on a scourge hook, so it doesn't make sense that being banished would send you to a random hook or whatever. I'll go a step further, let's say BBQ or PGTW procs, you have now given her essentially a pocket BBQ or PGTW, which makes absolutely no sense.
Sure, I can say that the little statues she has could be extended to be map wide, but I don't believe it's necessary. I remember playing with a friend who actively sabotaged the team (he likes to troll me at times) by pulling my other friend out of the banished realm literally right on top of the killer (if you cannot manage to wait a bit, grab the survivor out when it's safe to do so, and being mindful that she can snipe you as many do enjoy aura reading then that's just a situation where you have to adapt (I'm not saying skill issue, just adapt).
Sure, she counters my Renato build (Off The Record and Blood Rush) but if I went against a killer that has the same mechanics as Pyramid Head and I get banished, I'm not going to rage and say that this killer is broken because she hard counters my perks. It's the same situation if I was to load up as Felix or anything healing wise and I get paired with Plague, rendering those builds useless. As a survivor, you should adapt to the killer that you are matched with and the games would be much better if people did not give up or think something is broken when the killer isn't even that old to have a meta even fully form against it.
Moreorless, I went against a killer the other day (I can't remember who it was, I have been playing DBD a lot the past few days) but her build hard countered my Claire build (Dramaturgy, Lithe, Iron Will, and Deja Vu) due to Mindbreaker, I think it might have been Nurse but yes, I adapted to that match by essentially being an in-game leader to my team and telling them where she was going and everything causing the game to come back overtime, so if I can adapt in that situation by providing information to my team and preventing IW and help my team by adapting, the same for any survivor in this game as well.
-
@Arcturus said:
Not only that, Quick Gambit already gives you aura reading on your entire team the entire duration it's active. There needs to be a reason to run Salvation's Cry over Quick Gambit and right now the only reason is the teammates get to see your and the killers aura for a couple seconds, which really isn't a lot
Eh, I prefer SC over QB.
You easily just lose access to the boost with a lot of killers, especially a Kaneki but maybe it's because I just see Nurse, Blight, Hillbilly, and other S tiers a lot of the time, so I just don't care for the marginal boost Quick Gambit provides.
If it was for my full chase time overall, sure but due to it being locked until you take a health state, I'd rather just use something that is consistent.
SC allows the survivors to see where the killer is and allows me to see where the survivors are, I like to know where my SoloQ is when I do play SoloQ so therefore SC is my favorite of Aurora's perks but that's just me.
-
@Ergzelgath said:
I just interested into playing singularity in short singu and from my knowledge so far from watching other content creators hes very strong and consistant as long as you have enough knowledge to play him right? Knowing where to put cam when to tp and mindgames during overclock multi tasking watching many cam and macro knowledge of where survivors might be its unlike blight or nurse that the most important aspects of them is muscle memory and lot of practice singu require knowledge to perform and once you passed the skill floor and have enough knowledge about him his performance is very promising and consistant right? And is he got affected with how many pallets they are in the game i used to play ghoul and realise that lot and lot of pallets very hurt him so i lean toward singu instead plz let me know if i understand something wrong or on which points i nail it
I am surprised no one responded to you, I haven't played Singularity but I have played against him a plethora of times.
I'd argue that Singularity has a very, very high skill ceiling attached to him but once you climb this ceiling, it's very rewarding to invest time into him. His biggest issue is obviously map mobility and if the survivors pressure the EMP boxes to prevent your biopods from staying up.
I would argue if the Singularity has experience on killer, knowing how to zone and mindgame he can be a big low/mid MMR pub stomper for the fact that many and I truly mean many survivors hate him (I have many friends who hate him, I actually do not mind Singularity at all) due to them wanting to do flashlight and flashbang saves, which I would argue Singularity is great at managing due to the fact that you have to juggle boxes and he essentially is a macro playstyle, which pushes survivors to play macro, and sadly for my side doesn't know much macro and prefer micro but that's another conversation for another day.
I would say give it a shot, see if you like his playstyle, just know he is a very thought intensive killer to face as he pushes intensive macro onto survivors, so I presume it's the same on the killer end.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
…Is this what constitutes broken now a days?…
People think because you can't Dead Hard knowing the killer is going to send you to the shadow realm is on another level.
-
@MechWarrior3 said:
Not everyone is going to like looping the new killer. That goes for any killer. Which is why we have variety.
Completely agreed.
I try to not like let my grievances against Wesker and Hillbilly drain my ability to loop them.
I don't care for them personally, but I know other people love facing them and they get surprised because they categorize them as "fun" but for me, a lot of Weskers and Hillbillies I face all sorta play the same (which is fine).
I have had so many times where I drop a pallet on Wesker and Wesker will still dash and hit me (I'm on the side of said dropped pallet, he's on the other side but it's whatever) along with Hillbilly who just rides your back 24/7 with their chainsaw (this is why I have a specific rule that when I play SoloQ, I'd rather just stay injured because I have seen so many Billies just excessively use their chainsaw to obtain a down and he's an instadown, so I just think healing (for me) is just a waste of time, I'll heal a random if they want it but personally I'll just play injured against Billy and pressure gens) - but I do not care for playing against them, I can loop them, but they do not scratch my brain in any way.
-
@cammoking123 said:
You rarely even loop. It feels like you spend all the game out of chase trying to avoid the killers snipes.
This is why I believe she will excel in high MMR (high MMR people love to play high skill ceiling killers such as Nurse, Blight, and Henry).
I have had many chases with her, but I don't try to minimize other people's experience with her as I know I have a lot more hours than potentially the average person here.
On enjoyability, she has surpassed Nurse for me.
Nurse used to be my favorite person to loop, but it has went to Judgment > Nurse > Henry for me but I think that's mainly due to me having a certain looping style that's highly reliant on being unpredictable.
Sure, I can hug tiles easily but I prefer to mindgame and essentially play against things that I have to predict and they have to predict me. Another killer I enjoy in that subtype is Unknown, so for me she is fun to loop but I can understand people's grievances as she does snipe from afar due to how slow she actually is. This is why I have learned to love We See You, my only issue is that I get bored massively playing the same build over and over again as I like to play my different builds and not be stuck in a specific meta.
But I can understand where you are coming from, but because she fits the categories of what I find fun I just enjoy looping her as a whole.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112602#Comment_4112602
I said borderline B tier. I would consider him the new Wesker. A lot of people placed Wesker on the lower half of A tier when he first released because honestly the only thing he really had going for him at the time was very specific addons causing specific scenarios and the tunneling ability. Right now, Ghoul is quite literally the "who plays better" killer in terms of strength. Against a good set of survivors, he has to work way harder than before. Of course when I talk about tiers I'm using at the very least competent survivors as an example and not a 200-hour meg teammate who goes down in 20 seconds against a Ghoul.
Ghoul is honestly one or two changes away from a significant drop in strength.I mean, that's just pure speculation at this point.
You can argue that about any low S to A tier that with one or two changes and they'll go down in tiers.
I don't understand why you are saying he's a new "Wesker", he literally launches himself at much further distances and Wesker I'd argue takes more precision due to being punished if he misses his dash attacks as he can over extend. Kaneki and Wesker operate on two different plains: they are both zoning killers, sure. - however, Kaneki is a cut off killer while Wesker is a dashing killer that essentially rotates around objects or brute forces into said survivor. They do not functionally operate on the same wavelength, you try to bodyblock a Wesker and you will immediately be slammed against said object, while Kaneki operates like Wraith in trying to cut off the survivor from pallets and windows by gliding past them to zone the survivor away from the pallet from pure velocity.
They are under two different umbrellas, while both being mobility based.
-
@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112708#Comment_4112708
and why we need to change all perks that don't do things the same way as others. Deaf person just pays attention when it activates it has visual when it goes to cooldown. Thats how deaf people used Spine Chill before too.
Scene Partner just alerts the killer that you see them. Premonition does not alert them so you can quite easily use it to avoid the killer. Not to mention with Scene Partner you need to see the killer to activate it and it will not work agains undetectable status killers. Premonition works on that and will work through everything.
So in your opinion all perks should be cookie cutter stuff nothing original should not exist because you don't see the value of it. When I have pointed out why its a good perk.
So, you want a deaf person to constantly look at their perk load outs to see when a perk goes off, getting their eyes off the center of the screen, and become less accessible for handicapped people? Nice.
-
@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112600#Comment_4112600
No never why change a perk that is unique to something that we have tons in the game already. Its literally only perk that reveals undetectable killer. Its literally one of the most versatile information perk in the game but people sleep on it because its not holding their hands.
It's literally just a perk that makes a sound notification.
Why not make it more accessible for people who are deaf? Same for Small Game. As I said, a lot of the perks that are in the game are quite dated.
If anything Scene Partner for its aura reading is far superior than anything Premonition can give and nobody uses Premonition for its niche inaccessibilty issues.
You're looking around to hear a sound cue, which isn't helpful at all. Perks should be centered around shifting the meta, not preserving some small thing that already has surpassed it. If anything, again - the perks are bloated. What's going to happen when we inevitably reach over 500+/700+ perks?
-
@Brimp said:
No hasn't been S tier for a while. He's bordering on highest of B tier imo unless they tone down pallet density.
B tier? Really?
He is S tier for me, even though my killer main friend disagrees and says he's A. He's in my opinion not below an A.
Kaneki has map mobility, the ability to slug quite easily (due to the map mobility), he synergizes with a lot of perks that are meta (Surge is in my opinion one of his best perks to use), and he excels on outdoor maps unless you are actively cutting off the Kaneki before they cut you off.
Guess what? The vast majority of survivors do not know how to functionally bodyblock Kaneki/Wraith to prevent them from easily being downed, hence why Kaneki gets the spot that he gets.
B tier, lord.
-
@Wezqu said:
I would say Premonition is fine. They could drop the cooldown little bit.
I think it should convert into an aura reading perk or something.
A lot of the perks are quite dated.
Rookie Spirit should just have the skill checks removed, it's not necessary.
Visionary should just show you the gens without having the game take it away when gens pop.
Technician should just forego the punishment system, I have no clue why it's there in the first place - it's not like it works on Oppression/Overcharge and it's just redundant. A lot of the perks have unnecessary and redundant drawbacks on them, but that's just my opinion.
Just a lot of bloated perks that overlap with one another on both ends - I remember calling Deerstalker Predator in one of my most recent videos because there is way too much perk bloat in this game - Invocations need a complete overhaul if Behavior wants them to actively be used but it is what it is, I kinda give up on the idea of perks being changed. I kinda think Behavior just looks at perks and thinks it's okay, look at No Mither for example and how they label it "hard mode". I still cannot forgive them for obliterating Fast Track the way they did when they could have reverted it.
When are we getting Wake Up back to how it was? Wasn't it side-nerfed because of Sole Survivor but Diminishing Returns exists, soooooo......
Just mind boggling to see perks being completely ignored, I still to this day do not understand people talking about rat playstyles but Wake Up was the thing that gets changed and not Sole Survivor, lmfao.
-
@IareRubberDucky said:
I've been playing Judgement for around 2 days straight and facing them a total of twice. It seems as though most people have completed dropped the Community-Made Chapter altogether for the most part, but that's a side tangent.
The problems I come bearing are from my own experience into this, frankly, mess of a Killer.
Divine Light
Let's go over the main part of The Judgement. Divine Light is not very good for several reason.
The Aura
Because of the Aura it has, Survivors can dodge it extremely easily unless they weren't looking, were funneled, or ran into a wall (yes, that has happened to me... on both sides).
It ALSO has the VERY VERY BAD downside of telling Survivors EXACTLY where you are for, what is basically, the entire Trial!
The Range Limitations
Divine Light is the first Killer Power that you just can't use in a chase. It needs range. If a Survivor is too close to you, you almost always have to run them down for an M1. It doesn't help that The Judgement is a 4.4m/s Killer with no movement options.
You can try and flick, but it's very difficult to not only be able to angle it around the corner, but actually hit the Survivor who can see the Aura of it and adjust. You can also try what I call "Backsnaps" which is when you aim the Light far beyond the Survivor you're chasing and then turn around and launch it to snap it back. It looks cool, but it just doesn't happen.
Also, goes without saying, but do NOT, I repeat, do NOT run Rapid Brutality on The Judgement. You need the Bloodlust.
Cooldown Issues
Divine Light has a distance-based cooldown as well, but it also creates problems. If you're trying to use Divine Light at mid or long range, or even trying to use it in close range by angling it outwards and trying to curve it, you're gonna be slapped with a fat cooldown where you move very slow and cannot interact. It feels like a Twins cooldown where it's unnecessarily long and makes playing them awful.
Zealous and Exile
Combining these two into one due to how connected they are.
Zealous
Already starting off not great, when you become Zealous, the effects are hardly noticeable. Neither of the 4 things it does is big enough to make an effect on its own, and still doesn't do much when combined.
The size is not big enough to make differences, the cooldown for Divine Light is already short and you'll make up most of it crawling at the speed of a crippled snail from casting it, you probably won't even use the extra 50% duration as The Judgement doesn't need it too much, and the curve you can do with Divine Light isn't worth the sheer amount of things you give up by Exiling a Survivor.
Exile
Because most of the effects of Zealous is moot, Exiling a Survivor doesn't do anything. Yes, you Hook them faster, but they also get rescued faster. You also lose all of your pressure faster. You also do not force a Survivor off a Generator for long to rescue. 9 times outta 10, you're better off Hooking a Survivor manually rather than sending them to the place that absolutely should've been the map with this Chapter.
You can trade people at Hooks with Divine Light because the beam only slows down when passing near a Hooked Survivor and ONLY then. Unlike Singularity, it doesn't have a lingering duration. As soon as they're unhooked, it's going.
For all the pressure and all of the Perks that you can get from Hooking, Exiling just isn't worth it.
Overall
I do not forsee The Judgement being very good, possibly low mid-tier like so many Killers. There's so many little things wrong with it that it multiplies. The weird nuances with Divine Light, the speed of the Killer, the cooldowns, Exiling, it adds up.
We have a Killer with a Power that has so many asterisks, it's becoming the chat censor, a Power-related Status Effect that really does nothing in the grand scheme of things, an object that they can't interact with whatsoever, no movement options, a slower speed than average, and a cool area that you can send Survivors to who will spend less than 10 seconds there on average.
Without the beam being shown to the survivors, you would quite literally have the killer just sniping you with no indicator that the beam is even going to you.
I personally love going against her, she has a high skill ceiling, and many people haven't mastered the whole curving the beam around loops as I've noticed.
I think another issue is the aura reliance, it's fine for doing four aura perks but for the most part - gen regression has always been a part of the killer's repertoire and aura reading can only get you so far without you reaching a point where you start facing more skilled survivors who know how to functionally loop and evade your beam.
I do not personally think she needs four aura reading perks to excel and ultimately, she will be gen rushed but you see so many people making videos with her and having aura reading all on her, but the MMR system actively will punish that the more and more someone plays as her because playing all aura reading perks on a high skill ceiling killer will not cut it.
I'll even argue that I don't think she will be a good pick in comp, as they actively ban aura reading perks as a whole - so, she will stay a high skill ceiling killer, up there with Nurse just more punishing it seems.
-
To add onto this and I will tag @Mandy again as I know she cannot functionally respond to what I said.
Here are the main core components that I have issues with the current Jason.
The red mist: the killer can see a survivor when they're healing, being healed, doing a totem, doing a chest, doing a gen (unless you add in the core component that we can crouch before doing an action, this is completely anti-macro and poor design philosophy. If I or others have to crouch during a power, that is functionally bad game design. The fact that the killer possesses the ability to have what is basically Henry's upside down traversal with the given benefit of information is broken by proxy.
Javelin misses: Yes, Jason gets punished for missing a Javelin throw as per usual with most of the ranged killers. However, most people who play Jason and the fact that there are so many hooks present on the map will go up to a hook, grab a Javelin, and continually pelt you over and over again. (which is whatever, to each their own) but I have noticed going against highly skilled Jason's that they will repeatedly and I mean repeatedly mess up by throwing multiple Javelins and either hitting you or smacking you down because they keep messing it up - they will go into their power, reset the hooks, and then hook normally. If you are going to have a killer who is penalized for missing Javelins, can pick up Javelins from hooks, push people to not go to their boxes, and then have a killer do a workaround (their OE cooldown isn't long and can be permanently held indefinitely, there needs to be downsides but instead what do we get massive advantages to know exactly where the survivor is.)???
Another point, you are near someone else and they get javelined and they go down, you go in the mending state. - this reminds of the Huntress bug where she could hit you with a hatch and injure both survivors at one time. So, not only do we have an information-heavy killer that forces survivors to play very passive (similar to the original Skull Merchant, I would even argue wasn't as punishing other than the gen-kick meta) but there is a lot baked into the kit.
If the game continues and Behavior doesn't address the passivity where you have to crouch to avoid (imagine a game telling you that you have to avoid objectives) a killer and they do not walk back at least some of the stuff that I've mentioned in the above, I will not be playing as much as I have because I refuse to have my MMR tank due to Behavior's questionable design choices and the fact that both high MMR (which is baffling that I come on here to communicate every now and then to help others or address issues when I can't even play the PTB to address these fundamental problems), comp players who abuse this stuff until they are at the whims of being on the other side, and content creators telling people to learn macro play when the killer disincentivizes macro play (I would love a video of Otzdarva and @ScottJund to actually detail what they believe to be actual survivor macro - they love to tout that word, but what is survivor macro? I know what it is, but these are content creators who are the "knowledgeable commentators" yet where is that information?
Imagine telling someone who plays Call of Duty that if you don't want to be shot, just prone on the ground, and walk across the map to do the objective. When someone loads into Valorant or CounterStrike Go (crouch to plant a bomb at A or B site to prevent being sniped with an AWP). This is where we are where others gaslight the other side to get gud, skill issues, learn macro (don't even explain it in their own videos), and learn micro.
-
@MilkToast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090385#Comment_4090385
At the end of the day its doesn't matter since he's fun to play as so people will play him so it's a success and not the opposite or whatever Krasue where she's boring to play as and against
And then when he gets inevitably nerfed and these people who played as him climbs MMR, goes back to their mains, and goes against high level survivors with macro knowledge - we will see killer meltdowns and the same tunneling/slugging mantra that follows every single update.
Why is that every single update like clockwork Behavior releases overtuned killers (who is playing the PTB?) how is that PC people play the PTB and hardly if ever have any issues with the PTB happens but then the killer comes to base game and people like KnightlightDBD (a comp player) does a #1 winstreak with him and all of a sudden people despise the killer because people who play at a high level master an overtuned killer, win repeatedly, and then massive nerfs to that killer?
You would think comp people or high MMR people (I can't play the PTB due to being on console) would have pointed out oppressive parts of his kit. - if this truly was how the PTB was where people played the PTB and saw nothing wrong with crouching during a power, a killer using hexes to force survivors into red mist to know exactly where you are, and is essentially anti-macro as a whole.
Where are the comp players and high MMR people to bring up these issues? Why are these things swept under the rug? This is why fundamentally this game could never be competitive. It's honestly embarrassing to me that Behavior released a killer that promotes people into passivity with Halloween on the horizon, but Behavior have shown time and time again how delusional they are to their own player base. I will not be surprised when survivor players migrate to these new asym games, it's evident as such as @Mandy who still has not responded to me how much of a travesty this game has become.
-
@Skitten56 said:
Idk about boring. He is very fun to play and although I lose a lot as survivor, as long as I don't have any expectation of winning he is fun to go against for the most part.
That being said, he absolutely does need some adjustments.
His reload should not be as free as it is for one thing. All other range killers are 4.4 and have a lengthy reload animation or a cool-down, while Jason is 4.6* and reloads mid-chase without any issue. Any mistakes he makes are trivial since he always gets to just try again. He can just reload at any scrap pile or hook and there is no downside for failure. Even the hooks can just be instantly fixed just by going into Omnipresent mode for half a second at the numerous pallet and vault spawns before picking up.
Jason has the powers of numerous killers in dbd without any of the downsides of those other killers. Its problem of the game and BHVR's direction of killer design recently. Just think about Huntress's power next to Jason and how much power creep there is there.
Out of curiosity, not to be rude (as tone is very hard to pick up on the forums)
Why do you hold the opinion that he's fun to play, while also determining that you just accept the memo that you lose a lot as survivor? I just find that phrasing a bit odd.
That's like me saying, I enjoy playing as such and such killer but I just accept that each trial I just lose.
Or something I guess would be a complete mirror to what you said: it's fun to play survivor, but when I play Demogorgon I just accept that I will just lose therefore survivor needs some adjustments?
-
@DBD78 said:
"he’s easily the most boring killer in the game to go against"
People say this with every new killer before they learn counterplay. In no way is Jason less fun than Ghoul? In my book there are at least 10-15 killers more boring to go against Jason is ok to face and quite fun to play. Overall not bad at all.
You do realize there is such a thing as subjectivity, correct? Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean others enjoy that same thing.
You are not a beacon of objective thought to tell others how to feel about something else.
-
@hlambda said:
Seriously, posting should be like this…
What u main:
# of game hours played:
Perks most often used:
Screenshots for proof
Then what you have to say…because a lot of you guys just yap with authority because you post so damn much.Why are you on a text based website, while simultaneously complaining about people yapping? Like make it make sense, close the website and you don't need to see "yapping".
What is your credentials? Right.
-
@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090341#Comment_4090341
The problem is how close he gets to spawn to you. He can spawn extremely close to people on gens. Like look at this screenshot, for example.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6HQ7DJMRTVFA/20260619175332-1.jpg
I don't care how good of a looper you are. If Jason teleports to that pallet next to me and I'm injured, I'm dead. He just gets to start the chase in way too favorable of a position. If I were injured here, this is the kind of situation where I'd need to play passively.
Regardless, the game promotes passivity to the casual player base or people who generally are not good against ranged killers.
Behavior does this every update - release an overtuned killer, people get inflated kill rates, the killer gets nerfed, people go back to their mains, these people get into higher MMR that they do not belong in, their matches collapse because they can no longer depend on a killer that promotes passivity, and then we hear the mantra of, "I can't do anything, survivors are too strong, they need to be nerfed due to their second chances."
Every single update it's the same thing, people climb to higher MMR, they go against survivors who know macro play (as killers love to toss that word around), and they demand nerfs.
I cannot wait for Halloween in September.
-
@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090090#Comment_4090090
I understand what the argument was I just don't think that's a good defense for Jason, one it's advice that goes for survivor in general and two it doesn't change the fact that crouch walking around is the least engaging type of counterplay BHVR could have come up with.
Yes, I thought we hate rat behavior but we are advocating for rat behavior.
I woke up in an alternate universe the day Jason got released.
-
@Mandy said:
That's a really good video regarding the counterplay tbh
I'm seeing more survivors crouching now as well when he's in power - this is purely annecdotal from my own matches.
I do not know why even a community manager is telling people to crouch, I always feel extremely disconnected from the general discourse with the game at times.
Imagine telling people in your own game (whether you develop or not) to crouch and that's the counterplay. Like, yes let me just crouch to the other side of the map (which people have said you need to be stationary to prevent screaming) is interactive gameplay.
Sure, you're making people play outside of the norm but what you are describing is let's play with Urban Evasion and crouch to the objectives but OE happens, please crouch away from the gen because Jason can pop up.
But I forget that a lot of people on here complain about SoloQ and will speak about how people don't do gens, but let's advocate for the concept to crouch and slap on UE just to save time getting to said generator. It's strange, people will say people are rats (I hate this word) but we are advocating for rat gameplay, boggles my mind.
-
@NotPhoenix said:
DBD was a fun game, unfortunately it is getting close to being beyond repair and that's due to the toxic cycle this game has become, Run Meta or Get Crushed. If you don't slug or tunnel as killer then you get abused by OP survivor perks but if you don't run OP survivor perks then you still get bled out or tunneled. Even after that people STILL complain that their side is harder than the other but it all boils down to the age old statement of "My thing is more difficult than yours". The reality of it is that Behaviour has nurtured their game so poorly they made a community of hateful people who hate pretty much everything and a game that almost nobody finds fun anymore. It's our fault for becoming this way but it's Behaviour's fault for letting it slide.
I see, hm.
I like to play with perks that I enjoy playing with, but I hardly if ever watch content creators nowadays.
I used to watch Noob3 (my very first person I learned to loop from), along with Probzzz (where I learned different builds) and even picked up his own builds before I stopped watching him due to his in-game behavior to others.
So, I play what I want and hardly if ever run meta (if you call Deja Vu and exhaustion perks meta, sure) but I enjoy doing different builds and I actually believe it can be a detriment to listen to content creators and becoming meta slaves just because someone tells you what to use.
What a content creator or Otz (as people love to bring his perk ratings in) tells people to use, what is "trash", or what is "OP" is what really kills the game for the community.
Not once when I watched Noob3 I would decide to go become a Balanced Landing player and even when I took Probzzz's builds and took inspiration from it, I always catered it to my own playstyle.
Then I switched to watching people on comp, which reinforced me to continue doing different builds just to challenge myself. I then eventually stopped watching comp gameplay as I would get irritated when I saw massive misplays.
Point being, people can tell you what builds to use but it's up to you to decide what works best for you and formulate your own opinion on what you want to play with. I find it odd that people watch how to get good videos and then take these creators at face value to always run meta when what works for them might not work for you.
Just because Probzzz was a massive Dead Hard user, Noob3 with Balanced, Cru5h with Background Player did I ever think I need to play with their exact builds or go basic with Adrenaline, Dead Hard, Windows of Opportunity, and Resilience (as an example). Just run what you want and pick perks that fit your playstyle.
-
@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090285#Comment_4090285
You have to be stationary while crouching, crouch walking doesn't prevent the scream
Lmao.
If it truly works like that, I am glad I do not crouch everywhere.
Telling me that people should stay stationary and huddling like a turtle? Nah, I'll just run and take chase at that point.
-
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Currently since his release I'll admit that over 90% of the matches against Jason players involve him camping players on hooks in some form, either sitting in the omnipresent evil and waiting, or pretending to look for someone and then teleport back to the hook he is almost always there to throw something at the unhooked/rescuer in nearly every round. Has anyone else experienced this or is it just on my end?
Because with kaneki he could afford to fly around the map to find someone instantly and either begin chasing them or fly back to the hook as soon as the notification appears, but a ranged killer with high mobility power on a tiny cooldown, it seems very common they tend to not find someone fast enough or just like protecting hooks from afar.
I mean, he's very great at camping and tunneling due to his OE mode.
You just hook someone, OE away, wait for the unhook to happen, OE back.
I've had multiple Jason's do that to randoms or myself. It's either this, the ones who seek a javelin like a golden retriever and continuously spam javelins, if they cannot hit you they walk you down with a basic attack, or they just stay in OE mode waiting for you to touch or interact with anything like hexes, healing, or gens.
I'm not saying he's overpowered, I've won against him several times but I am thinking from the perspective of people who are not as strong in chase or the general health of the game where people will opt to DC just by seeing him in a match. Again, luckily I've only experienced like two DC's since his release but AGAIN what I experience isn't the norm and releasing a killer that pushes people into fear-based thinking (don't touch objectives) is objectively bad design.
-
@pidgeon said:
This is my personal guide on Jason counterplay for those of you who are having trouble countering him, this will be a relatively small guide based of what I see with my games and different ways of countering Jason. I will be giving tips for mainly 2-3 man SWF as that is what I typically play however I will give still give tips for solo.
| Omnipresent Evil |
Im assuming this is what everybody is here for so this will likely be the longest section. It is a lot of macro.
At the start of the match if your team is coordinated, immediately split gens and stay on gens even during Omnipresent Evil. You may be wondering why should I do this? Well it is genuinely terrible for Jason to have ANYBODY on generators whilst he is using his power. You and your team will continue to do this any time he uses his power. However if you are solo make sure to wait a bit until doing this to see whether or not your teammates are actually going to rat the whole time, if so just join them or take chase.
YOU choose who gets chased! If you or someone else is injured during omnipresent evil they should not be on generators, instead it should be someone who has not been hooked or is healthy. This forces Jasom to chase certain survivors and allows you and your team to spread hooks against Jason while getting generator progress.
| Jump Scare |
Completely countered by crouching. If he has sauna rock and you have exhaustion perks you can crouch once he teleports then sprint burst away. This works because sauna rock only works on the jump scare itself.
| Throwing Spikes |
if he gets it from a hook it can hinder you and reveal your aura, otherwise its just a Huntress hatchet and dodge it.
Like I said relatively small guide I hope you guys learnt something, feel free to post your own counterplay tips for Jason in the comments for others to read and learn about
Why are we advocating for inefficiency?
I'll just edit videos in:
https://youtu.be/xkhvcydOLnA?is=fzdZxNz7cfRCa6ab
https://youtu.be/41uNLIRWJi8?is=ETq-T5iOLW6qz60_
-
If you are going to give us counterplay, show us footage. We do not need to crouch and whatever else to win against Jason and it kills match tempo to just be like, "If you're injured, stay off gens." - like, that's not good advice at all. Maybe if you're struggling and cannot hold chase but I have been able to hold chase while injured and telling people to avoid objectives is bad advice.
-
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Its gotten to a point where at the start of the match he will go into omnipresent evil and everyone will start crouchwalking around and i just say screw it, run to the first generator like usual and if he chases me ill try my best. Sadly that always ends in me being camped and or tunneled 90% of the matches against him since he is almost as good at camping hooks as leatherface, and the people playing him tend to end up camping in some form or another weather they mean to or not.
Yep, this is exactly my gameplay.
I will crouch walk to the generator, but if I am nowhere near the three gen (I always run Deja Vu) - I will run to it.
I personally think if you can hold your own in chase against Jason (I can), there is no reason for you to crouch walk all the time. As I've said in another comment, a killer can only be in one place at one time. It's kinda why I don't like it when my SoloQ groups together and does gens together unless Prove Thyself is in play.
If you can hold chase with him, it's perfectly fine to run. If all survivors run, he can only be on one survivor who is running. Luckily for me, I hardly see people crouching and I have people doing gens so my experience isn't reflected like I see on the forums but then again, I always take chase and lead the killer away from the three gen or generally attempt to waste his time from my chase as a whole.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089814#Comment_4089814
The killer doesn't really matter, nor is it about me specifically. Many players won't waste their time on someone who preruns away at rapid pace when they can just turn around and go back to a hook and find an easier target. The people I play against who run SB, Vigil, and Ghost Notes/Lightweight are not trying to extend chases, they're trying to avoid them. People can defend SB all they want but I'm telling you as someone who believes in spreading hooks that nothing will make me go back to the hook like this perk.
Can you name the killer specifically? Not all 4.4 killers operate the same exact way.
A Spirit, Hag, Huntress, Deathslinger, Trickster, Artist, Skull Merchant, Singularity, Chucky, etc all operate differently with a Sprint Burst or are you implying that it doesn't matter because all of these killers should abandon an SB user?
Edit: I do find it a bit telling that you're implying, maybe myself as I am an avid SB user that I use it avoid chases, but under your logic a 4.4 killer is avoiding resistance by explicitly ignoring the survivor doing an SB play.
Someone can use SB in a dead zone, it is on the 4.4 killer (whatever it is as you cannot give me a specific killer to give counterplay with) to adapt to that scenario.
If we are using let's say Trapper for example, Trapper doesn't rely on chasing a survivor down. Obviously they rely on good trap placements and zoning people into said traps - same thing for Hag. A Chucky, Spirit, and any ranged killer can easily deal with an SB user. I literally got sniped by a Jason javelin throw during an SB, it's possible but hard to counter if you cannot just give me the killer you opt to avoid chases with due to an SB.
SB is used to extend chases, get out of dead zones, and going from point a to b quite easily. It is not used to just avoid interacting with the killer at all. On the contrary, I would argue that the killer choosing to not interact with the SB user is the one outright avoiding the interaction, not the survivor.
-
@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089988#Comment_4089988
Only other nerf I would put on him is that if he stays too long in his power he loses the information it provides. Just to make end games with one survivor left be more interesting than him just sitting in a hill or spot where he can see both doors. It would also make him come out of the power more so the game does not grind to a halt when survivors keep crouching and he just keeps patrolling. That is literally the most boring part of his power for both sides.
Yeah, I do find it a bit nonsensical that he can view people doing totems, healing, doing chests with the red mist.
I've also heard through a killer main friend of mine that Scott Jund recommended the death hook survivor to just crouch during OE mode, which I highly disagree with. I don't really understand the fascination with crouching around unless it's at the beginning of the game and you're doing it to go to a gen or whatever you're doing.
The concept that I, a death hook survivor should crouch and become an inefficient part of the team when realistically speaking if everyone just ran and went to the objective - all survivors would be highlighted and Jason cannot determine who is who when in OE mode.
That's another thing I wanted to point out from playing against him and getting to the end of the trial, I've never done that and only if ever crouched when approaching a gen or running on the outskirts of a map because what Jason is going around the outskirts, but that's just my opinion there.
There's a lot to his kit, I cannot really pinpoint exact issues that could be changed. He's inherently a jack of all trades killer with a lot in his basekit, just a bit silly that he gets information everywhere just because someone isn't crouching.
We can't crouch and heal, we can't crouch and do a totem, we can't crouch and open a chest.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089670#Comment_4089670
Popularity isn't the issue. When people use SB against me as a 4.4 killer, I ignore them. A perk that makes the killer decide you aren't worth the effort is not a good thing for your team. Lithe is different. It has an activation condition, and one that can be botched. All the other Exhaustion perks require you to do something have something done to you, or have a downside. SB is just free, and it often makes killers not even chase.
You're acting like you can't find people with Sprint Burst out of positioning and these people just Sprint Burst everywhere.
As I've said on Reddit, you can give someone Sprint Burst but does that mean that they will Sprint Burst towards a chaining tile? If you are playing a 4.4 or a 4.6 depending on what it is, you're not telling me what killer in question we're talking about to expand off the initial claim to talk about counterplay against SB.
I don't know of any activation requirements you can potentially do towards Sprint Burst and if it's an activation where you have to be healthy, people will just move to Lithe, then we have people complaining about Lithe.
People will say Lithe and SB takes no skill and has less restrictions than the others, but the other ones require you to be healthy (Overcome and Dramaturgy), specific to the killer behavior (Smash Hit and that's not even guaranteed as killers respect pallets anyways), or Head On (which makes you have to stay in a locker for a specific amount of seconds to activate).
But again, to each their own - without you telling me what killer you are using, we are just theorycrafting without giving me a proper 4.4 movement speed on why you choose to abandon chases.
-
@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089361#Comment_4089361
If that's your takeaway then go for it, I am not invested in convincing you otherwise.
Fact of the matter it is not feasible to walk off 13 seconds of exhaustion vs a strong killer piloted by a competent player unless they mess up heavily.
There is a reason why I don't bring up Mindbreaker.I don't know why you believe people cannot walk off exhaustion add-ons or perks when people are able to do that.
What do you think people are doing when they're walking around shack or holding a checkpoint around a corner and they have Lithe or Sprint Burst? Like, why do you think they're walking while in chase (aka shift tech) or pausing at a corner to check where the killer is going while getting their exhaustion back.
Do you think people aren't doing that? I've done it multiple times, I don't understand why you are under the sentiment that survivors cannot walk off exhaustion.
Edit: also, I find it a bit mind-boggling that if a survivor walks off exhaustion add-ons (shift tech) people assume the killer is bad, but a double standard occurs when survivors die and we don't hear about how the survivors were just potatoes.
I have no idea why people imply killers are efficient machines that work at optimal mindsets and techniques all game, they are humans. They aren't some chess bot following a specific subset of moves and winning every single moment that happens, so strange.