IareRubberDucky
IareRubberDucky
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- IareRubberDucky
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Honestly, I'd instead want those asking for nerfs and even buffs "Why?"
In my experience, not a lot of people in this community like to explain their answer, or if they do, it's either the most lukewarm, nondescript answer you've ever read, or a series of whataboutisms where they attempt to deflect.
There's a lot more of whining/complaining than there is feedback as well, where instead of trying to come up with solutions and going from there, people just wanna yell into the void for no real reason.
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@TropesDaMan said:
Ducky your feeding me with greatness. i love the amount of effort you throw in, and i read all the maps. amazing designs! what chapters do u have left btw
Well right now it's just the Base Game, with Binding of Kin looming overhead.
I do want to tackle SAW, Leatherface, Resident Evil, Sinister Grace, Doomed Course, Forged In Fire, and a bunch of paragraphs, but that'll be a while.
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@TropesDaMan said:
As a Nurse main who just switched from Skully im curious as to how youll implement her. So ima vote in the favor of Last Breath as long as you fix her white comb add on lol. Anyhoo i love how admist the Jason chaos your making an effort with these. an amazing idea and im here for it.
thank you for fixing milk carton
I guess I'll do Last Breath next! Any reason to change Disturbed Ward and deliver a Tombstone Piledriver to Nurse.
And hey, maybe a new Survivor is in order ;)
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@Ohyakno said:
I appreciate the frankly lunatic amount of effort you've put into this, but you've overall nerfed huntress. I'll have to look at the add-ons more closely. And the rest of the post. This is just a knee jerk reaction post
Genuine Insanity is what I'm good at producing! Game would be too bland without it!
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@esarraf said:
Yeah septic touch is broken as hell, you need to look at other perks that exist. Forced hesitation for 40 seconds alone would be insanely broken and make slugging even stronger. The invocation is awful, sorry but there should not be sandbag perks to this extent. Just imagine you are in chase and after someone wastes 60 seconds setting up an invocation you are forced to run into a haunt that makes you exposed or hurts you. Survivor perks should not be able to actively harm your team. Like it's one thing if it's yourself but making things worse for others is just a bad idea always. Also seriously who nerfs residual manifest, a sixty second cooldown? Who was saying this perk is too strong? I mean for goodness sake if the killer brings lightborn it's just a dead perk or if they are one of the many killers who you can't blind in chase because their powers allow them to ignore pallets or have special breaks where they aren't locked into the animation. Overzealous also runs into the same problem of it just fundamentally does not work with those values. You spend significantly more time cleansing totems than you save repairing gens. And boons work best when your build is nothing but boons. And sure, I guess you can say what about hexes but that's assuming you find it before another survivor and everyone wants to cleans a hex.
The map rework also has some glaring issues like making the entire top floor pointless by removing the generator up there but also it just doesn't really work putting in potential redesigns of maps without labeling where stuff like pallets and windows spawn at. If you make more of these would recommend you label them so people know if what you are proposing is balanced or not. Also did you do anything to help with the fact the balcony is just an inverted basement? I can't tell if the train is suppose to connect to the balcony or ground floor.
Good formatting as always though.
First things first, Septic Touch will transfer the effects if ONE of them have it first. If someone with Forced Hesitation heals another (for some reason), then the other guy will get 30 seconds of Hindered because the Status Effect spread. It's a Perk that's spreads negative Status Effects.
Invocation: Overlap ONLY affects the person who performed it. That's why the final section of the Perk is there. Only the Survivor who started it can see the Haunts.
Residual Manifest simply got changed so bully squads can't abuse it and chain the Blindness multiple times between each other. Only one instance of 30s of Blindness every 60s.
As for Overzealous, yeah, that's point. Game isn't gonna just hand a 10% bonus to Repair on a whim, you're gonna have to earn it. The higher the values, the harder it should be to achieve.
As for the map, the Generator is upstairs as indicated by the Generator Room, and I don't put Pallets or Windows in because the LAST thing I want is consistency when it comes to maps. Maps are supposed to randomly generated, and everything you see right now is supposed to what IS consistent. It's why there's so many empty spaces as well, it's for the game to fill in the blanks. Also, the train crashes into the ground floor porch. The part on the 2nd floor balcony is just to prevent people from getting onto the train.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087186#Comment_4087186
Yeah but you are only making the meta significantly worse by buffing meta strategies for killer and removing counterplay to those strategies from survivor. Distressing would make slugging even stronger, same for Shock Jock. Likewise nerfing sprint bust by making it take so long once again buffs slugging because even if you can get someone up they probably won't have recovered their sprint burst or lithe and will likely go down soon since you tend to go down in dead zones as a survivor. These suggestions cements the meta for slugging by making it extremely powerful. That's one of the reasons why I really don't like this post is because it only makes killers significantly stronger when they are playing the most unfun playstyle they have and removes much of what survivors can do to counter it.
For reasonable reasons, I have to kind of keep it "close to the chest" on the changes. Sprint Burst and Lithe, as mentioned, are close. If we go on about it'd buff slugging, then we get into how lower Tier Killers can't slug nearly as well higher Tier ones, then we get into Nurse and Blight, and then we get into Perks that can help with self-recovery, and then… well, ya see? It horrifically ripples and we'd be here all day.
I'll eventually get to everything in due time. I would love to German Suplex Nurse into a bed of a nails and barbed wire, but I can't at the moment. To me though, slugging just doesn't happen that often. As a Killer, I don't usually need to do it unless they were trying to be annoying or letting their ego take hold, as a Survivor, I rarely see it happen unless the dude hit Plot Twist or tried to use their DS in a very stupid way. I don't know why, but in my 7 years of playing Dbd, the amount of times the Killer specifically went out to omega slug the entire team can be counted on one hand… and more than half of those were because of Twins, Oni, or Myers, which is understandable as to why they're slugging. Twins Rework when?
Guess I'm just lucky or something.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087177#Comment_4087177
Sorry but like, again I just can't take any of this seriously when you are like "I'm going to focus only on the materials in this chapter" unless it's something that helps survivors then I'll be sure to nuke it even though it's unrelated.
I'll give you something though, you formatted the post very well and it looks very pretty even if the ideas in it aren't great.Think of it like this: A "Comeback" Chapter, to me, is a "sequel" to an already existing Chapter that changes a majority of what's in the Chapter AS WELL AS any relevant things outside of the Chapter. When All-Kill Comeback came out, although the Chapter was mainly about Tae-Young and MiNA, Trickster got a full Rework and a map, Yun-Jin Lee got background music, and two of her Perks got changed.
It's just that, when it comes to Lithe, I am directly changing something that IS meta, unlike the other Comebacks I've done where all the Perks currently range from "Exists" to "Wouldn't Wish It On My Worst Enemy." There's a lot more ripples created from changing Lithe than like Game Afoot, and I did have to address it.Also, thanks for the nice comment about formatting. SO MANY people on the forums, subreddit, and everything else can learn a thing or two about headings, making things bold, underlines, and all that fun stuff nobody uses. Genuinely hurts me to read through a brick of text.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087169#Comment_4087169
Right, and if this was just about their own Comeback thing you would not have brought in sprint burst. Like, if you are going to be nuking stuff unrelated to the chapter why not nuke other killers as well?
Because they were related! I just said that Sprint Burst and Lithe are practically interchangeable. If I nerf one, I have to nerf the other or else one gets raised on a pedestal while the other gets shafted. Calm Spirit was brought it because of it's association with Doctor himself, and Distressing for much the same reason since that Perk is commonly ran on Doctor. Plus, with Monitor and Abuse, I had to check up on Terror Radius lengths, and having a 56m Terror Radius as Doctor sounds awful!
Check my other Comeback Chapter Ideas, all the Perks outside of the Chapter have a reason to be there. For Tools of Torment, all of the Teamwork Perks were getting changed into Partner Perks, and I wanted to add more, so 9 got added in. For Flesh and Mud, I reworked Ace's Perks and crunched some Perk effects into other places. I also had to change Hex Perks, so that's like 15 that had to added. For Roots of Dread, Fixated and Genetic Limits were mentioned because they were getting the effects of Inner Focus and Septic Touch, respectively.
I don't just mention Perks I have a gripe with. I have a very good reason why I put them in.
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@esarraf said:
Yeesh nerfing alert and calm spirit tells me all I need to know about this… suggestion. Also bro, you can't nerf exhaustion perks without heavy nerfs to all S and A tier killers. This is just so hilariously biased that I can't take it seriously.
You sure you're not also showing your bias? This post ain't about Nurse or Blight, this is about Doctor and Feng. If I wanted to include them, I would in their own "Comebacks," not in this one. Don't play whataboutism. I nerfed Lithe knowing I also had to nerf Sprint Burst or else it would just be one Perk completely overtaking the other. The two Perks are practically interchangeable, and half the time, it goes down to personal preference. Both had to get nerfed at the same time in the same way.
And I nerfed Alert and Calm Spirit for good reasons. Alert is genuinely one of the best Aura-revealing Perks Survivor has access to. I love the Perk, yet I came to the conclusion that yes, it is a bit much compared to other ways you can reveal the Killer's Aura. Calm Spirit got BUFFED, but I specifically made it so it CAN'T work against Doctor because there should not be a single Perk that can completely neuter an entire Killer. It's like how Vigil kills Nemesis, Clown, and Freddy.
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@Lexilogo said:
First, this is an excellent idea, I do really feel BHVR should do more followup chapters and using them as an excuse to rework features/Perks related to that Chapter is a good pitch.
The Totem change is common sense bad luck protection, I'm in favor.
I like the map rework ideas on a thematic level, I can see the vision for both of them. Map design wise it is difficult to judge off floorplans, but my instinct is that the Pale Rose being a main building that's only accessible from one angle, even if there are multiple entrances, could be a problem, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
I sadly do not like this proposal for a Hag rework. I think Eye/Feeble traps sound a bit too annoying to play against, especially because Hag could in theory corner Survivors and just drop a Feeble trap mid-chase for example. Esp. with Waterlogged Shoe
The Curse system also feels like it's convoluting the Power, and its limits aren't clear, surely I can't just pop Curse of the Eye at the start of the match for a free Lethal Pursuer, right?
My own counterproposal for a Hag rework:
- Under certain conditions, Hag will draw a trap in blood instead of mud. Blood traps are stronger than Mud traps.
- The conditions in question are shortly after a hook (still only good for one trap), or during a basic attack cooldown.
- Blood traps have an infinite teleport range, can be teleported to on command like a basekit Mint Rag, have Phantasm collision, grant Hag 5% Haste for a while if a Survivor trips them, and take something like 2-3x as long for Survivors to wipe away.
I don't think this on its own would immediately put Hag into a good state, maybe 4.6 does need to be considered or some kind of other buff needs to be implemented, but this is the pillar I'd build her around, I think it'd give her a unique skill compared to other trap Killers, give her web a bit more organicness to trap placement while allowing it to be much larger, but still play into her core gameplay which already exists.
Re. Hag's perks, I personally think it shouldn't be on individual Perks to escape cleansing at the start of the match, it should be done through basekit mechanics. But if there is one Hex that should not be given a specific feature to stop instant cleansing, it should be Devour Hope, the whole point of that Perk is to be super high risk, high reward.
I actually do like the change to Ruin though, proccing after first generator allows Survivors to potentially strategise around it and I think would make it kicking in feel more memorable. Less a fan of The Third Seal, I think you've overcomplicated it a bit and on principle I don't love the idea of it applying permanent blindness to a Survivor that they can genuinely do nothing about until the Killer chooses to attack a different Survivor and light the totem.
Combining Plunderer's with Ace in the Hole is a neat idea that does make sense. I do also like that this shifts a very niche/gimmicky playstyle out of the general pool and onto Teachables where they should be, and the new Plunderer's might not be that bad.
Overhauling Open-Handed into a luck based rare effect on a variety of interactions is very thematic, and I like rolling its old effect into Eyes of Belmont. I think you missed what it should do for Exit Gates though, and I do think 2x Stun duration would probably cause too many rage scenarios for it to be worthwhile as a Perk design.
Up The Ante unfortunately would synergise far too well with Stake Out/Hyperfocus IMO. It does have something of an anti-synergy with Stake Out but I'm a bit worried about this kind of Perk design. I do think shutting down Slippery Meat gimmick builds in favor of Slippery Meat just being a better standalone Perk is a good approach though.
Finally, the Hex reworks, I will only talk about highlights as I have already said IMO it should not be on Hex perks to avoid start of match cleansing, it should be fixed through base mechanics:
- Not against trying to make NOED more healthy, and I do like the idea of it being a severe punishment for death hook Survivors in endgame but I think this proposal inadvertently encourages slugging maybe a bit too much.
- Lullaby not revealing itself is IMO unthematic to the Perk and not friendly to new players, on a Perk that is already pretty bad for them to play against
- Being able to manually apply Pentimento, even with a 3m cooldown, is nuts IMO, it allows a Killer to apply almost a full Survivor's worth of generator pressure with a lot of immediacy.
I think this is a mixed bag of ideas overall but there's a lot of good stuff and the amount of work put in is excellent. And in general, I also agree that Hag being the next target after Trickster's encore would be an excellent choice. Great post!
Genuinely wonderful to receive actual, tangible feedback! I won't mention everything here, but yeah, I did need to clarify some things with Hag, such as not being able to Curse right out the gate, but the reason why her power is more "convoluted" is because I needed to update her Add-Ons. Most of her Add-Ons are just copies of each other with different numbers, which is an outdated system, and limits unique builds.
Anyway, thanks once again, and there is also a Retooled Torment concept (Tools of Torment) that's on my profile, and I'm currently torn as to which Chapter I should look at next. I'm thinking either Spark of Madness (Doctor and Feng), Roots of Dread (Dredge and Haddie), or All Things Wicked (Unknown and Sable).
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- Gen Spread usually leads to 3 Gens often
- Low amount of Windows of both Useless and "Why Is This Crime Against Nature Even Here?" qualities
- Inconceivable amount of Pallets of both Terrible and God qualities
- Main layout never changes
- Massive Areas you can't cross due to either giant walls or inaccessible buildings
- Massive Blindspots where Lockers just don't exist
- I can see across the map with ease
- Killer strategy is to ignore most of the Generators and focus on the cluster in the center
I guess before Haddonfield left, it had a child with Hawkins and it took all of the bad genes. Visually, it's a masterpiece, it just does not play well or fun in any aspect!
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They're still bad. Really bad.
If you want to make a smoke grenade, then make one, and make it unique. As of now, they're still sitting just above Maps in the garbage dump of Dead By Daylight. They're not instant, they have a very small radius, if you're Injured, they do nothing, if the Killer is too close to you, they do nothing, you only got 4 shots to use this thing with zero way to get Charges back, the main effect of them is worthless, the Add-Ons they have are even more worthless, and they're on a cooldown.
There is zero reason at all to use a Fog Vial when we even have Perks like Sprint Burst and Lucky Break that do a better job of getting away from the Killer.
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@Lexilogo said:
I think an idea like this is very reasonable so tracking Killers across the map isn't as easy, I really like it.
My one concern is that I don't love the idea of this interfering with seeing the map as a whole. It's pretty easy to imagine maps looking a lot worse thanks to the dense fog wall.
I think maybe the ground-level fog could be changed to be much, much thicker at longer ranges instead, rather than a full opaque wall?
If it's just on the floor, then yes, Chucky, Pig, and Ghostface get a pretty sizable buff, but you're still gonna be able to see clearly across the map as a Survivor.
The Fog Wall itself isn't actually fully opaque. It's high, but if you squint, you can make out some objects and possibly people. You can't do that on the images in my post because, well, hastily put together edit, so, ya know.
The Fog won't nearly interfere with the map as much as Nightfall or Lights Out does/did. It could possibly be a gradual fade to full opaque-ness, but the important things like Generators will STILL break through the Fog, kinda looking the boat section of Silent Hill 2 where you're rowing across a lake to a bright light.
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@Memesis said:
What do you want it to do? It currently is pretty good at finding survivors and giving you a haste path to them so you can then use your chase power. If you put an insane debuff to survivors on top of that it will feel garbage to play against.
All of that is a part of Search, not Houndsense.
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@Memesis said:
I've been playing this game for just over 5 years, and I still cannot properly learn the position of the office, main area and exit gates. I used to love the map when I was newer but I'm lately rolling my eyes when I get this map, either side.
Well, that's what my rework sought to eliminate, the maze that can be Léry's.
As for the actual map, to find the Library (office, yeah I call it that sometimes too), you wanna look for a long, wide hallway with skylights and pillars in the center. This extends from the Operating Theatre to the edge of the map. The Library will always be connected to this hallway, and it will always be on the opposite side of the map from the Operating Theatre.
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Oh, buddy (joke intended), I've got a Custom Chapter based on the entire series of Outlast!
Outlast
For the first game, I picked out The Walrider and Miles Upshur. Yes, Chris Walker is the face of the game, but he isn't nearly as important to the overall story as Billy Hope is. Plus, there's more interesting things to make from The Walrider instead of Chris. His Perks are Godly Fingerprints, which causes Survivor to audibly hallucinate, Newfound Apostle, which can grant Haste when your Obsession is death's door, and Revoked Freedom, which can instantly destroy a Pallet.
Miles is the obvious, and best choice for Survivor. Waylon Park can be just simply a Legendary… or not. Dude made it out of an Outlast game unscathed, he deserves freedom! Anyway, Miles' Perks are Down The Drain, which draws a line between you and a Generator, Pandora's Box, which grants you numerous good status effects that you lose as the Trial continues, and Hide and Survive, which allows you to enter Lockers much faster.
Outlast 2
In my insane mind, yeah, I've there's gonna be 3 Killers and 3 Survivors for an Outlast chapter! The Killer is The Angel, better known as Marta, Knoth's right hand (wo)man. Her Perks are God Guide My Hand, which quickens the break action per Hook Stage acquired, Hex: Cleanse Them, O Lord, which prevents Survivors from obtaining positive Status Effects, and Father, Grant Me Strength, which Exposed Survivors near one you just attacked.
Blake Langermann is, of course, the Survivor for this portion. His Perks are Everything's (Not) Okay, which makes him practically invisible if someone is attacked or goes down nearby, Them That Hath Ears, which makes the Killer louder to you, and Be Reborn, which temporarily removes all negative Status Effects when unhooked.
Outlast Trials
Couldn't forget the latest installment either! Went even more insane with the Killer, that being The Prime Assets, a duo Killer consisting of Leland Coyle and Phyllis Futterman, The Sergeant and The Gooseberry. Their Perks are Scourge Hook: Spoil The Bunch, which can make everybody the Obsession, Thin Blue Line, which grants Haste per Hook Stage acquired, and Prime Time, which can hide a Survivor's Aura from their friends.
The Survivor is Amelia Collier, our Reagent buddy who was captured and is currently missing from the Sleep Room. Her Perks are Rat In The Walls, which benefits you from not interacting with the Killer nor other Survivors, All At Once, which benefits everybody for grouping up, and Chainless, which allows you to yank yourself off the Hook no matter what if you've been alone for a long time.
….
So, for TLDR, I basically have 3 Survs and 3 Killers consisting of
- The Walrider
- The Angel
- The Prime Assets
- Miles Upshur
- Blake Langermann
- Amelia Collier
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Honestly, Premonition is a lot better than people actually give it credit for.
It ignores the Undetectable Status Effect and can be used to bypass Oblivious as well as indicate where a Killer is if you're in their terror radius or in their lullaby.
I will say that the cooldown may need to be reduced a bit since 30 seconds is a bit much, but do remember that it's free, like old Spine Chill.