Is the ghoul really S-tier
I'm not a native engliah speaker so plz bear with me with some words or grammar.
I keep seeing people saying the ghoul is S tier but i dont think so im quite new so keep that in mind.
Apart from getting first free hit he have in order from not being just a legion 2.0 you have to use your power right like if they stupid and drop pallet in front of you you just vault and if they cant vault back (sometimes they just can purely out of luck which is very common for them to being able to vault back tho) assuming they cant its free hit okay, But if they smart they dont drop and loop the pallet you can cut-off but the so called cut-off is so inconsistant some loop dont have trees or any wall behind the loop so you cant do the 2nd leap to cut off or you have to go wide which sometimes with both speed addons you still cant cut off in time some loop have weird shape some loops have debris to block you and on some god sent loop that pass the all requirement its still not garanteed that you can pull it off some times you slide to close and cant wnd leap some times you miss the grab and undergo some cooldown and youre cooked some times you pull off but they decided to go to next pallets which is every 5 meters away some connect to windows.
Also they can sit in between pallet and theres nothing you can do you prompt steal they they can just walk and stun if u dont use your power they just drop and run a little to break LOS and you cant grab vault on tile like long wall gym or shack which is easy to cut off you do it but they just already leave the loop and not play the tile you have to wait for cooldown use power to catch up which due to how dense pallets are they already arrived at next pallet if you kick pallets to create dead zone you will run out of time trying to create dead zone and survivors just do gens and the leap block tho its fairly consistant if you have the right cancel timing its still very inconsistant you go a bit furthur inside pallets you got stun sometimes they double back and theres always pallet nearby having a down with him against survivors that know a bit to counter ghoul just leave him an average m1 killers.
And with 40 meters TR the hyperfocus stake out squad will finished gens in 30 secs and if you are unlucky youre going to midwich with him tho midwich is very killer sided he will feed the stakeout so fast gens are in room where you cant use power so easily to get by and tho you can have some fast down if you kick some pallets to create dead zone youre still gonna lose cuz they do gens so fast.
And hes buggy af sometimes you cant grab attack sometimes cant m1 sometimes you leap backward like how is it even possible to attach the kagune forward and you go backward like he just moonleap but this time its not a tech but a literal moonleap.
Playing him is like if youre face with survivors that have no idea whats going on you will stomp them hard but once you passed a certain points where they know how the ghoul works you just have to be able to perfect your m2 or else you lose his learning curve is like flat cuz against bad survirvors hes braindead op but once you passed a curtain points you have to have max level of skill usage to keep up his learing curve now go from flat low to through the roof and eventho you mastered him he still inconsistant his requirement for cut off is too much like only fews pallets can be cut off the effort - reward ratio just so diablolical you have to mastered him to be decent and functional 80% of the time 20% of the time he just dont work cuz the game hates you for me once he pass the soft cap hes c+ tier and once mastered hes just A tier at best unless you pushed him into the limit of skill ceiling now hes S tier but generally speaking just play blight bro hes hard but you dont have to be an insane blight to have good result or nurse throw some aura reading and practice aome muscle memory of her blink and you 4k most match or you want to try hard a bit go play dracula he has tool for evrrything if you lose chase it all comes down to youre not good with him enough for ghoul you have to be the best of the best and now just pray for some luck the stars have to be aligned for him reach these killers power level, the loop has to have some structure to leap (only 20% of loops are like this where you cant most of the time be able to cut off) and hoping that survivors dont double back or fake a double back or leave the loop or walk a weird path to confuse you which most survivors they just good enough to counter you and bad enough to play so unpredictable like who in their right mind leave loop again the ghoul but they did and now i have to wait 5 secs of cooldown from leap 2 times in enraged them jump again used 2 token now another 5 secs and now there at pallets that you cant cut off and now eventho u down that survivors whos playing just okay they loop pallers 2 times drop pallets u didnt get stuned and now go play some 50/50 and you win congratulation u downed a survivors using 40 secs to go from injured to down while the survivors are not even that good maybe a total of 50 secs chase time, man you just gonna lose bro nowaday a chase longer than 30 secs is like a bad chase now and its crazy well its not only for ghoul other killers too but they are not an S tier killer, a ghoul is an S tier killer.
Someone plz explain to me how can he be S tier and how can i win chase in minimal time fast like other S tier killers, blight take like 20 secs on average if you know what you are doing on maps that is now indoor
Comments
No hasn't been S tier for a while. He's bordering on highest of B tier imo unless they tone down pallet density.
Can i ask how many pallets have been added into the game since the pallet density update like on average 6?
And do i have anymore ways that i dont know to play the ghoul? Since his cut off are so in consistant i run him with dissolution and it helps a lot but its a very lazy way to win chase and trying to do cut off in filler pallets are just so bad how is otzdarva or hens or any youtuber say hes S tier or does he have anymore power that is so good he can sit in s tier dispite having so bad chase power
He's an A tier killer.
I think the rough increase is 7-9 per map. Along with some maps getting smaller but in turn made things more condensed so it's harder to dead zone them. You can see disturbed ward right now, go to the flower garden outside and you can probably find multiple pallets in a row leading into each other in a big donut.
https://youtu.be/ZWlJXSai1GwLike this is bad rng by the way. The hill can be another rock pallet tile and one of the burnt down building tiles didn't spawn as a pallet tile meanwhile a lot of these pallets are on the slightly safer side rather than 50/50s. All this around main which in itself spawns two god pallets and is extremely strong and not to even mention the edge map pallets that can spawn.
Prettymuch yeah but at the bottom of it, being able to ignore any mistakes you make by instantly catching up to survivors, fastest killer there is besides Jason, and being able to instantly delete a healthstate with less counterplay than legion is stupidly strong.
I think the only killers that are universally agreed on that are S tier are Nurse and Blight, and I guess we'll have to see about this new killer. Ghoul is consistently considered top 10, I feel like usually around 5th or 6th most powerful in the game, so a high A tier.
I'm pretty sure in Otz's tierlist he put Ghoul in high A, I think also 5th or 6th. I can't remember exactly where Hens put him but I imagine it was probably about the same. it's extremely easy to get about 80% out of his abilities which is already a lot, but some of the more advanced stuff at loops is much more difficult. I don't play much Ghoul so I'd just look up some videos for tips, but even if the killer has a bit more difficulty at something like a filler tile (unless you know how to do the advanced stuff), just make sure you punish survivors whenever they leave a loop, as you can catch up in an instant.
Goddamn god forbid killers are human too and for disturbed ward the wall may be symetrical but it has weird shape sometimes you slide inside the hole inside the wall cuz the wall resemble the C shape and the cut off is cooked and aside from ton of safe pallets and connect to main building as u said some tile spawn so close to eachother the long wall connect to 2 pallets then shack then 2 more pallets and another tile and some pallets and windows from main building they can chain you for 5 gens its absurb the pallets is a garanteen kick cuz its so safe and place in a way that is very good for pre drop like if i dont kick i have to go either left or right of a long ass wall :(
Yeah but the knowledge require to counter ghoul is not hard to learn kinda like the double flameturrets for xeno or dont play with shorts loop when wraith have the pallet control and if you can m2 to catch survivors that mean u have to play him pure m1 throughtout the whole chase which is bad anyways jason use spike for chase fog or catch up so he can use both power but my boy ghoul if he use power to chase he cant catch up if he want to use power to catch up then hes m1 while blight can do both but with 5 tokens for tye free health state yeah its free and better than legion for sure since you can catch up better and have somewhat better anti loop (which is bad but at leatst he have something) but legion is very consistant i guess sometimes if they have rock nearby they can hind behind rock then you m2 to the other side and if they dont react fast enough you can free injure but theres a lot of times where you just missed (yeah its possible) the game hate you and put some debris now youre enraged, on cooldown, and not any injury or deep wound and sometimes it just dont work it wont grab hes very buggy and once missed its so punishing
Well while getting passed around in twitch streams just trying to get the rewards, it landed me on one player using ghoul and was currently on a 515 win streak. Just slugs all 4 in a couple minutes and goes to the next one. They barely evet get 1 generator done. So if hes not S then hes probably in the A's
A-tier, map dependent, excels at playing 'dirty.'
Not overpowered, but asks a lot of survivors due to having so much pressure pretty much all the time.
If he could down with his power then he would be S tier but no, definitely no higher than A
By dirty u mean slugging, pallet vault, tunnel?
515 ws thats insane lol and despite hes really having 515 ws or not maybe slugging is maybe strong on him since his catch up is i believe the strongest but his chasing is mediocre
Yeah maybe ill change my play style a bit to someone force a drop while not getting stun or maybe run dissolution
Yeah. Not really a statement on the morality so much as acknowledging community consensus. High mobility makes slugging less risky, thus more appealing.
I dont think hes S more like a A, but I think hes the lowest skill floor killer in the top two tiers.
He’s S Tier to me. He still has the best mobility in the game and he gets a free injure. People keep talking about “the nerfs”. Well I can’t tell exactly what they nerfed because he feels the same as on release.
Removing endurance/tunneling, slugging is strong coz of mobility. Works well with Dissolution and Blood Favour which makes tunneling off hook even more effective.
Don't get me wrong, Jason and Blight are both above Ghoul and are stupidly powerful but ghoul just ignores the healthy state for survivors which is something that both Jason and Blight have to at least go through first. Like sure some loops there's counterplay for ghoul but also there's plenty of loops where even if you play it perfectly, get the stun, and do everything right you are still screwed since ghoul instantly gets you before you can reach another loop and you just have to accept the fact you were beaten not because of any skill but just because the killer pressed button to win chase.
Yeah but nowaday every map has ######### ton of pallets chain together if map have some real dead zone he would without a doubt s tier but i just played on campell and theres a safe pallets literally 2 meters away from the long wall gym and 3 more pallets nearby thus making his mobility useless i know that the free hit is nice and can caught people off guard very good but man theres pallet everywhere i also once played the suffocatong pit and i decided to only played 1 side which is the main building since the loop is long and i saw that shack side has ton of pallets and debris which hinder my power i have brutal strength and kick every pallets survivors drop and funny enough they still have pallets to play late game the amount of pallets is so absurb theres the pallets that has to kick to avoid the infinite in main some rock pallets and the chokehold middle map and like 3 pallets and 4 windows into more filler pallets
Except most of those pallets are extremely unsafe and with even a minor amount of lag due to how hit validation works the killer can ignore most of them making your argument only really work if the killer has below 20 ping.
Mobility will always be king, but amongst the herd I'd say they are top 10 for sure but they are not like they used to be. These days people are just traumatized from old days.
the thing is, ghoul is easy to damage with. so its easy to do something to anybody. So super safe people get annoyed because Ghoul got hits despite their pre running and exhaustion perks, which is the opposite of a normal killer who typically struggles to damage a survivor.
Ghoul gets those easy damages but actually ending the chases aren't always so easy which is where his....averageness starts to show. You have to be mechanically on point with chase to easily secure downs and a lot of survivors who faced original Ghoul will be more experienced. If you can't get those downs you may be better served on Legion tbh.
Still a great killer, but honestly BHVR was smart by nerfing his ability to damage over vaults this change, even though this was a quality of life feature introduced by Wesker, removing this removed a lot of the frustrations this killer brought. Kaneki immediately became easier to face with that one change. W BHVR
Yeah I think the ghoul is S- tier.
But keep in mind that Blight and Nurse in S tier and the gap still huge
Maybe not if their kit was harder to use very well but unlike the Nurse and The Blight you don't really need excessive hours on The Ghoul to be decently good with them, its more of a case of "Strong kit that can get a lot of value with minimal effort" than "Strong Kit that is strong because of knowledge and skill on the killer"
After reading all you guys comments and some gameplay of pro player and undergoing some thinking maybe i might play him wrongly his chase is bad but ive never tried it but on some instances should i just loop normal in filler and dont force trying to do cut off cuz i feel like the cut off is something not intended but some really good player just so good at him that they can do like you can win a knife fight with fist if youre good enough but its extremly hard maybe i just loop and if they run i catch and if they dont i play 50/50 and use mobility to enter chase faster than other killers? Like doctor would have to run for 15 secs untill hes in chase and run down 2 health state where ghoul enter chase in 5 secs and only having to go down 1 health state cuz the injured part is free so the net total of time being used is faster down than other killer except hightier and best short range burst of mobility and hes the requirement check that if survivors have pallets 5 meters away from them if not they die if yes the the chase go on quite a bit of course blight did the same thing as him map wide mobility fast damage might struggle a bit on some filler and the requirement checker of whether survivors have pallets 5 meters away from them or not but yeah its blight himself so maybe this evening ill try again and report back to you guys and maybe since the mmr reset i often face players way above me 2k hrs p100 swf meta perks etc
Nah. He's just a better variation of The Legion. His power cant down you
Crayon Eater, when played well, is high A tier. The issue with him is, that his skill floor is extremely low. My cat could play kaneki and 4k most of the time.
I ve seen pallet after pallet afet pallet after pallet i couldnt take it anymore.
So i quit as the ghoul.
He was an S tier.
you want a killer your cat could 4k with? You would have loved Spirit. Your cat could unplug your controller walking by and survivors would die because of it
Even with reduced pallets he wouldn't be that much stronger. The token loss on pallet break with lower enraged duration and the post-vault hitbox being removed just made it super easy to force him to M1 as long as you anticipate a cut off leap and double back.
B tier? Really?
He is S tier for me, even though my killer main friend disagrees and says he's A. He's in my opinion not below an A.
Kaneki has map mobility, the ability to slug quite easily (due to the map mobility), he synergizes with a lot of perks that are meta (Surge is in my opinion one of his best perks to use), and he excels on outdoor maps unless you are actively cutting off the Kaneki before they cut you off.
Guess what? The vast majority of survivors do not know how to functionally bodyblock Kaneki/Wraith to prevent them from easily being downed, hence why Kaneki gets the spot that he gets.
B tier, lord.
I said borderline B tier. I would consider him the new Wesker. A lot of people placed Wesker on the lower half of A tier when he first released because honestly the only thing he really had going for him at the time was very specific addons causing specific scenarios and the tunneling ability. Right now, Ghoul is quite literally the "who plays better" killer in terms of strength. Against a good set of survivors, he has to work way harder than before. Of course when I talk about tiers I'm using at the very least competent survivors as an example and not a 200-hour meg teammate who goes down in 20 seconds against a Ghoul.
Ghoul is honestly one or two changes away from a significant drop in strength.
I think he's still firmly part of the top 5~6 of the roster, but not an S tier monster the way Blight (still) and Nurse are. I think there is still solid room for him to be toned down into a healthier state given his crater of a skill floor, but its clear that BHVR haven't given Ghoul the bizarre mandate of heaven they've given the perpetual top two, and he doesn't even have something like the apology letter for overheat slapped to Billy's back as a similarly A+ killer.
Yes he is. Right behind Blight.
I mean, that's just pure speculation at this point.
You can argue that about any low S to A tier that with one or two changes and they'll go down in tiers.
I don't understand why you are saying he's a new "Wesker", he literally launches himself at much further distances and Wesker I'd argue takes more precision due to being punished if he misses his dash attacks as he can over extend. Kaneki and Wesker operate on two different plains: they are both zoning killers, sure. - however, Kaneki is a cut off killer while Wesker is a dashing killer that essentially rotates around objects or brute forces into said survivor. They do not functionally operate on the same wavelength, you try to bodyblock a Wesker and you will immediately be slammed against said object, while Kaneki operates like Wraith in trying to cut off the survivor from pallets and windows by gliding past them to zone the survivor away from the pallet from pure velocity.
They are under two different umbrellas, while both being mobility based.
I say he's the new Wesker as hes basically the gatekeeper of A tier. If you can perform consistently better than Ghoul you are A tier. You can notice the drop in strength against good players after all the nerfs he got. The incredibly reliance on leap addons like coffee and satchel for cutoffs or else you just don't have the time to do it.
After trying him for a couple more time yeah theres too many pallets for him to deal and many pallets are so hard to cut off thats most of them time it just pure m1 down and pallets after pallets into window like a filler pallet into window and youre done you cant cut off any of those since they either got window or pallets you cant vault since theres window or maybe to pallets chain making his vault useless and also revault if theres less pallets i think he will go up a lot but man an m1 killer with jungle gym into pallets hes in a very bad spot theres always something save for sur to play and 50% of them run window of opportunities as well hes very good into slugging tho after trying the slug build or be a macro killer controlling tight space and try kicking pallets to creat dead zone instead i guess his mobility is good buy chase is so bad
What do you label as the true S tiers?
Originally you said, "He's bordering on highest of B tier." then you shifted the goalpost back to A tier.
I mean, Kaneki for all the stuff that he has in his full fledged kit is essentially a higher map mobility and presence over Wesker. This is why I am genuinely confused why you are comparing Wesker to Kaneki, not to like belittle Kaneki mains or whatever but you are more penalized as Wesker as messing up a dash compared to messing up a cut off from a Kaneki.
Wesker like I said can accidentally overextend his distance, then you have to walk, wait for your charges, and retry.
A Kaneki on the other hand, sure they can overextend or accidentally hit a window by messing up their kagune leap entirely, but he has the map mobility to overcorrect that much easier than a standalone Wesker. This is not including the fact that, as I've said many times - Kaneki has built-in tracking via the bite indicator showing up on a survivor, whereas Wesker has to rely on a more tracking skill set that a Kaneki doesn't need to necessarily rely on.
As I've said before here, you can literally load in as Kaneki on a bush formatted map, and easily find people due to that bite indicator doing the work for you. I am not a Kaneki hater by any stretch of the imagination, but I will always respect a Wesker main (even though I genuinely hate Wesker and his hitboxes) any day over a pure Kaneki. Do I think Kaneki takes no skill? No. But to compare apples and oranges to two different killers with different skill sets, powers, fundamentally different gameplay loops, and the bite indicator is overlooking the sheer amount of information Kaneki has over other S and A tiers.
Blight and Nurse as the true S tiers. Both can down with power with ease and have way less counterplay than there is to Ghoul in a loop. The chase plan against them is purely win 50/50s meanwhile Ghoul you can actually play against a double back. Also I say borderline meaning he's basically on the verge to dropping down to B tier from even a small nerf. Thats what I mean by "hes the new Wesker". Weskers strength dropped considerably when the infection off hook was set to 1 and the full infection only gave 4% hindered instead of 8%.
Meanwhile Ghoul is high mobility and free first hit. Everything else is playing cut offs (which require leap addons to do consistently) or M1s which those aren't great. You can vault right through Ghoul whenever he vaults with power because they removed the hitbox for it as a nerf, so kidnap tech is just gone against people who are competent. That's the whole thing with tiers you place things higher depending on how well they fare against at the very least COMPETENT players and not the lower denominators. Ghoul quickly falls short but not completely out whenever the survivors actually know how to play against a Ghoul.
So, Nurse and Blight are the only true S tiers you can think of?
Where is Spirit aka Remylea, Hillbilly aka Numia, Jason, Henry, etc? This is why I find tier lists massively disconnected from actual gameplay.
I have faced extremely great players of all killer sets, such as Numia, BleakBTW (Dracula), Remylea, and Finesse (Kaneki).
To only have those two up there when a Remylea and Numia can absolutely demolish the average playerbase here unless we are talking about baseline, but regardless it's still massively underselling someone like Finesse who plays Kaneki.
Like, you wouldn't watch Finesse and call him a borderline B to A tier killer, lmfao.
I'll even go a step further, would you say Negoose's Judgment is lower than S tier?
I would because when ghoul requires super oppressive perks like Blood Favor or multiple gen regressions to pull off what he does it doesn't scream S tier to me especially when probably one less mistake on the survivors' end would have left at least a 2 out with both sides bringing the sweatiest stuff when Nurse and Blight would have probably had a 4k at 1 gen left vs that same squad. As for demolish the average player base… the average player is surprisingly bad at dbd but people don't tend to notice cause perks play a huge part in games so the results in the end usually doesn't make them look as bad. All it takes is ONE weak link and the match against any of the A-B tiers is a decent boost in their chance to 3-4k. Like I said I take tiers with competent players into account and not the average. That's the whole point of 99% of tier lists.
I just don't see current Ghoul being anywhere near S tier unless you consider stomping matches of the average player base a testament to the power of a killer.
Answer what I said prior.
You cannot logically tell me that the players that I mentioned prior cannot unlock the highest level of tier possible of skill ceiling and you tell me that Finesse (Kaneki) is B tier.
This is why I don't like tierlists at all.
And what are you ranking Judgment? What about Negoose? Lmao.
Do you not understand what borderline means? He's still on one side (A tier) but one change could easily make him B tier. For someone that doesn't like tier lists you seem to engage with them a lot more than I think someone should. As for skill ceiling yes it can make a killer better when played at absolute peaks. But due to survivors' current strength and when playing well to those strengths that's where he can fall short whereas Nurse and Blight can have a significantly easier time. A LOT of people relegate S tier to the absolute broken tier and many, MANY don't consider Ghoul to be broken anymore. When you ask "is this killer S tier?" You really ask are they the same strength as Nurse or Blight. Billy fit that roll when they first added overdrive but after some tuning down to multiple parts of his kit he sits comfortable near the top of A tier and can teeter into S tier depending on the current state of balance in the game and a lot of people would agree with that. Ghoul was S tier when he first released as he COULD brute force literally everything but once again after tuning down he's dropped a good margin.
Ad-hominem, try again.
I am engaging with you because I am challenging you on how fundamentally broken and disconnected they are from the average game.
I will ask once more and if you dodge it again, this is my last time of talking to you: What is Finesse, Remylea, Numia, BleakBTW, and Negoose in your eyes? You think they just picked up those characters, found broken playstyles or (in your eyes Nurse and Blight are the only broken characters (???)) to justify S tier.
You do know the game is a constant back and forth? I have no clue why people think people who play killer are some true deity Gods that unlocked 100% efficiency and cannot lose if they're playing Blight/Nurse but then when a survivor loops said S tier, that player is just a bb killer.
Makes no sense, by that logic anytime a killer player gets a kill they're facing bb survivors who don't know how to loop, faceplant a wall, and run in straight pathways, and therefore killer is not that strong.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound? I give you one more chance to talk and actually say their names and if not, this conversation is an utter waste of my time.
he's probably the bottom of A tier with the constant nerfs and pallet density
Hot take, but I think that Ghoul has potential to be S tier when someone tries to cut you off mid loop which works insanely well if you can master it to the point where you feel that there is nothing you can do. But due to most people play him dash into cancel into free hit I think he's like low A/B tier mainly because the revault is now possible unless lagging servers.
I'm pretty sure Tier Lists have criteria for this exact reason, most of the time its based around the average playerbase. Obviously every killer played at the top level WILL stomp survivors, I mean look at Quiet kills Epidemy ect. They play "bottom tiers" and still stomp every single lobby.
The reason why A tiers exist is because for the average player it COULD be S tier, the only thing holding Hillbilly back would be Indoor Maps or hard to maneuver areas.
The only thing that holds killers like Singularity & Twins from being S tier is the fact that communication & antislugging perks literally gut these killers.
Didnt expect this forum will have so many people engaging them tye reason why i ask is he S tier is that i played some dracula singu blight and some low tier like wraith and legion when im asking abiut tier i mean if 1 person with the same skillset perform on a specific killer assuming that they have the similar circumstances when i played blight i can miss some swing and its fine i still win on people on my level but when i played ghoul against people that know how to face him hes felt so helpless and i dont really sure that bringing people that put these killer into their absolute limit is the right call since if theyre good of course they can win with ghostface but they can make no missplay at all since hes so unforgiving so hes low tier i just want to know that on average people playing 1 to 2 game a day after work i just feel like the ghoul is so stressful and has lot of counter play unlike other same tier (A or high tier or whatever) so maybe lets just do this, what i mean by tier is hownmuch effort someone has to put into playing these particular killer to get the result assuming they have the same proficiency on killers they play a nurse match is a lot easier than a ghostface match so thats the tier difference so the question is someone whos on the same tier as ghoul like maybe dracula singu spirit oni i guess whos considered the similar tier will ghoul have to put as much effort as playing these killer on the same circumstances
I suppose, but you can make the same argument for Kaneki.
I told my friend who was struggling on Trickster's Delusion as Kaneki (even though technically it's a hybrid map: indoor portions with long street stretches being outdoors) along with the clutter, I told him directly as he is a Wesker and Kaneki main (he plays others but those are the main two he plays and enjoys) that those killers also have issues with bump collision and clutter around the map (that map is well known for all the clutter it has).
There is a give and take with all killers, same for Nurse and Blight - you can literally loop a Blight back and forth against a rock as shown with DOCDBD here in his video:
https://youtu.be/JDeDaDflXz0?is=0XIGSgWLorMoF3gnAt the 2:32 mark, you can clearly see DOCDBD and I have done it in my own videos that you can routinely cause the Blight to lose its rushes if you capitalize on line of sight blockers - the same for Nurse as well, so the whole point is that every single killer as I said in another comment has a give and take to it.
Sure, not many people are as skilled as I or Doc, but the point still stands that if we are talking about counterplay - all killers in the game has fundamental counterplay, just entertainment DBD doesn't show it to the masses that is the survivor community sadly (which leads to arbitrary tier lists in the first place.)
This is a first I'm hearing about actual criteria on lists, could you please explain them for me? Usually it seems it ends up a mix of whatever the steamer of the week says and opinions. Highly curious.