CautionaryMary
CautionaryMary
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@PyramidFootLicker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065780#Comment_4065780
Survivors hid all game LONG before distortion was a thing, you guys love to conveniently forget that the spike in distortion usage was due to Ultimate Weapon the perk and all the aura reading killers started running in general around that time. This was around the time aura reading huntress made a comeback too which was why it was paired with calm spirit because the perk roamed with the killer at the time.
Are we seriously trying to imply that killers used Ultimate Weapon, the perk you "guys" implied took time out of your game - a matter of a couple seconds to open a locker, caused the survivors to scream, and reveal their location.
Bear in mind, this perk wasn't tied to the locker.
Same thing for Nowhere To Hide, just say you want to play on auto-pilot. Like I said, if WOO is auto-pilot for survivor - NTH is most definitely auto-pilot for killer, same thing for Ultimate Weapon until people complained when it got nerfed. Same thing for Weave Attunement before Behavior finally started showing the items to the survivor, which then killer mains started crying that it was unusable.
It's always survivors with their rat behavior or auto-pilot tendencies but let's not kid ourselves - if you cannot use tracking to find someone without aura reading - that is a skill issue in and of itself.
You see a video on "rat behavior" and it becomes a negging term for survivor. Lord, but when does a term become a thing for killer? I'm just gonna say it I guess - you "guys" play on auto-pilot, if you are genuinely telling me that people used UW and NTH because of "ratting", it's just disingenuous - I'm sorry. I would use killers and I never went out of my way to abuse UW and WA and it's not surprising on which side abused it until it was nerfed.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066284#Comment_4066284
Yep, and I would agree they are necessary for fair play too. I think Chucky getting a unique sound when stealthed shows design intent by BHVR which I find interesting. Other stealth killers tend to keep their sounds regardless of undetectable, Chucky actively gains new sounds.
I wanna clarify this isn't a true balance discussion nor me lamenting Chucky as weak. I don't think he's particularly great but I do fine with him. I'm asking more, if Insidious specifically didn't trigger giggle mode, would it be oppressive? I don't think so, personally.
The only thing I'm lamenting is the loss of prospective meme plays.
Think about this:
A Chucky can sit in a bush and the survivors would never know he's there.
A survivor can be working on a gen and have the Chucky immediately wrap around and grab them off the gen.
There is a reason why Chucky has auditory sounds, I mean he's like 1-2 feet tall and can see in third person, lmfao.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066281#Comment_4066281
I don't think he needs it for balance or anything like that. It's purely a discussion for the hypothetical. Other killers have sounds too when undetectable but Chucky's is notable in that he has a separate sound specifically to prevent stealth Chucky.
Say we put Insidious Chucky next to a crouching Pig. If they're both camping for a gen grab, Chucky has visuals and is smaller, but Pig is silent and can aura read with the iri. I feel it nets the same effect, but isn't a dominant or even common strategy because of the opportunity cost of essentially going AFK.
I mean, even Wraith has snarling sounds when he's in cloak form so I don't see the point? Same thing for Ghostface, same thing for Myers (sorta due to how tall and noticeable he is so I'll toss him in).
The only one I think doesn't apply is Skull Merchant, but I mean she's been nerfed and I've always thought Skull Merchant did not need to be a haste+stealth killer.
Each stealth killer has an indicator to know they're around you, Chucky isn't any different.
Thank you for mentioning Pig, even Pig you can tell too. All the stealth killers minus Skull Merchant (that I am aware of) have noticeable signs when they are around you.
Edit: also do not compare Pig to Chucky, one is much more noticeably smaller and can easily abuse this mechanic if implemented.
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@Taro888 said:
A Blight running Infectious Fright, Coulrophobia, and Distressing creates a very easy and oppressive slugging setup.
Matches like this do not feel engaging or healthy for the game. A 4K with this build feels less like skillful play and more like an expected outcome.So is the idea to keep certain killers strong enough that even beginners can relatively easily secure a full wipe?
There is some counterplay, like getting into a locker to avoid Infectious Fright, but that only helps a little. In solo queue, not everyone is going to do that, and depending on the location, getting to a locker is not always realistic in the first place.
I think this would still be extremely difficult to deal with even for a coordinated SWF using voice comms.
Is the balance team considering adjustments to this kind of setup at all?At that point, are survivors basically just supposed to get picked up twice, give up, and move on?
I would say that the only counter to this build is healing outside of his terror radius or simply playing injured.
I am aware that it's harder for people to do, but I see your point and Behavior should look at it if the data indicates that it's an issue.
I would personally rather deal with this build than full regression or aura reading, but that's because I actually do like playing injured (I like to be efficient on gens) so, the build doesn't bother me but I can see this being an issue in mid-low MMR.
I personally think it's a weak build on a high mobility killer like Blight, but that's just my 2 cents.
Edit: I want to add another thing as another crucial tip. Separate, do not be with other survivors, and he will not get perk value out of Infectious.
I see so many survivors and sometimes in my own games that will be together, let's say they're healing - they will go down together and it practically collapses the game.
If you're aware he has this build, work around it, and punish it. If you need any more tips on how to deal with this, I do not mind answering further.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066278#Comment_4066278
I'm honestly okay with his audio cues being present for other sources of undetectable. And realistically wouldn't expect a hard coded exception for one relatively niche perk.
Just hypothetically, Insidious in isolation, would that be too much?
It would have to be tested and sadly I cannot be in that level of testing due to being on console. I'm just saying if anything it'll put Chucky in situations where he gets easy hits, grabs off gens, etc.
You could argue that a survivor should constantly move their camera around to prevent this, but at the same time does Chucky really need it?
This is the true question.
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@angrychuck said:
It's a crutch perk, and trust me, this perk is not as powerful as people think. Yes, the information is very useful but once you develop well enough as a survivor it becomes pointless. People only run it because it allows for less thinking in chase, a crutch per se. Windows also doesn't make you good at the game, its merely information, and hence not truly game changing.
This and soloq survivors users use it.
Even if I don't use it, let's not think that it's just a situation where people use it because they don't know where pallets are. I've always compared Windows to the killer equivalent of aura reading.
Literally had a Wesker who kicked a gen, I ran away from the gen (with Distortion), and the killer was completely lost. It comes to a point where we call out the auto-pilot gaming in general. If a Wesker cannot find me without a perk lighting me up in red and ignore my scratch marks, that's a skill issue.
I don't care what happens to Windows, as I'll be relatively safe regardless of what they do to it but nerfing Windows will just push people to Five Moves Ahead.
You nerf Five Moves Ahead and it's just getting rid of information tools on the survivor side, I don't know - Windows is something that I do not care for nor do I care if my random is using WOO.
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@zonkednb said:
So after a few hundred hours on killer, I've learned something that made me genuinely sad. I thought Chucky's laugh was tied to his Hidey-Ho mode, but it's actually tied to any instance of undetectable. (I know, took me a while to catch up).
I can see the logic behind it. He's small and has third-person camera, meaning he'd be next to impossible to see before it's too late. He can position himself in places other killers can't and still see what he's guarding/approaching.
But insidious is generally a bit of a meme perk, right? You sacrifice so much pressure just to catch a survivor off guard once, and generally the more you employ it, the less you get out of it as survivors start checking angles like they're in CSGO.
I just wanna be funny jumpscare gremlin but Chucky can't stop looking at memes on his phone when we're supposed to be stealthy.
PS: I learned this the hard way trying to bring Insidious Chucky into a game and getting humbled in the first three minutes.I think it's mainly due to Chucky having audio cues, that's not something that can be muffled over. Similar to the other killer sounds in the game.
If anything, I'd argue Chucky with Insidious is kinda like playing Plague with Insidious.
It would make me chuckle at least, but I think the audio cues are given so that survivors can react - remember Chucky is third person and is very small. I can imagine a Chucky that makes zero auditory noise as quite infuriating to deal with and putting that into his kit would be an odd choice.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I think skill checks are more of a test to see if you're still awake for 90 seconds of effectively a loading screen.
Personally, I like the idea of having a skill ceiling that is higher than the skill floor. I think this game sometimes suffers from game design issues where people expect to pick up the game and have instant success with no friction or learning curve. We see it on both sides with new maps and new killers (playing as or going against) where some players seem to expect to instantly master it and never struggle or have any difficulty.
I think that's both a mentality problem and poor game design when they cater to it. Some people seem to expect that slamming their face on the keyboard should win them games, and it seems to be lucrative for them to allow that occasionally, for better or for worse.
Lmao, you're always making me laugh. I love the starting line, thank you for making my day. Same for @Aven_Fallen got me chuckling.
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@DNet89 said:
With the rework of Self-Preservation you gain Elusive for 30 seconds when the Killer hooks a Survivor. If the killer comes to your location you'll probably be able to pre run and hide somewhere and even possibly use Extrasensory Perception for 11 more seconds.
Are we really complaining about a perk that still won't see the time of day in survivor builds? If it makes you feel better, OP - I still won't use it, so one less "rat" you gotta deal with.
Oh my, a survivor gets a situational status effect when another survivor gets hooked.
So groundbreaking and OP!!
I will edit that I never understood the term of ratting. To me, it's just a negative negging word for someone who is hiding from the killer. It depends on the context of it, but we already have the crow mechanic in the game that goes against it, so I don't know see why it's a major issue.
Situational perk still won't be used.
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@HolzkreuzTo said:
I think the current setup of the Fast Track perk is very unskillful; furthermore, it punishes the killer for not slugging or tunneling. That can't be right. I came up with a cool rework idea:
,,Each time another Survivor is hooked, gain Tokens based on their Hook State:
1 Token for the first Hook, 2 Tokens for the second, and 4 Tokens for the third, up to a maximum of 10 Tokens.
Tokens are only gained if you are within 16/24/32 meters of the Hook.While repairing a Generator:
Hitting a Good Skill Check consumes all Tokens. For each Token consumed, the Generator gains 2% permanent progress"→ This way, killers who tunnel out a player early in the round are punished.
Furthermore, you only get the tokens if you were actually near the hook, not just for doing nothing. So there's a small skill aspect to the perk that can also create further synergies.
And the levels 1, 2, and 3 of perks are also incorporated via the required range, so that unlocking Lee at level 3 is worthwhile. What do you think of my idea?Why are we making a perk much more situational than its prior form?
Like, you are telling me a person who play with old Fast Track that I have to be around the hook to get tokens? No.
Nope, I'd rather have the old form if anything. I am tired of survivor perks being super situational and this is not something that I would agree with. Someone with a gen build can easily be tunneled out and get zero perk value the whole game.
If you choose to tunnel, deal with the repercussions and consequences of your own decisions.
If you decide to juggle hooks, that's on you - I do not see juggling of hooks and if that is your argument that Fast Track is too oppressive (which is what my killer main ex-friend came up with) then tunnel, do whatever you want but do not make a perk make me have to sit around a hook to get tokens. This is the most horrible change I can think of as it's objectively worse than it's previous iteration.
I find it so fascinating that each time a survivor perk gets announced, reworked - killers always wants to make it situational - then you complain that survivors run meta all the time.
You know, where is the backlash for the Hens build? Pentimento, Thrill of the Hunt, Ruin, and Hive Mind? Literally the definition of playing on auto-pilot on your side of the aisle, Thrill of the Hunt is the issue - which compounds itself when tossed on a high mobility killer. When are we going to look at oppressive builds that functionally break the idea of soloq? Right.
Ex-killer friend tells me that Thrill of the Hunt is the issue in the build and then not even an hour later tells me that he wants to see if he can overcome Hens' winstreak. When are we going to hold the other side to their own issues and talk about their issues with the perks that they use, but a catch-up mechanic that can easily be voided if the person is focused on is the issue. Delusional.
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Ah, yes - also I want to say this.
Anyone who keeps using the argument that the killer is lagging is telling on themselves.
When the killer is lagging, it shows a knife with the lagging bar - I should have pointed this out earlier, but I'm not surprised that people who play killer don't even pay attention to the lagging symbols in the game.
The bar is shown for myself because I lagged for a bit, meanwhile where is the knife with the lag bar? crickets
It's not my fault the Wraith doesn't know to cloak, uncloak, hit, cloak, kick pallet, etc.
There are many, many multitude of guides out there to teach people to play Wraith, just because this Wraith in particular was lazy and playing on auto-pilot doesn't change anything. I more than likely have less hours than this Wraith guy (potentially his main), but even I know to use the cloak speed to catch up to the survivor.
It's just Intellectual dishonesty to either imply this Wraith is a baby killer while also say I won because he was lagging. If I can help and desire to help my survivor side, do the same for your side otherwise I guess I'll be the survivor main who tells you how to play a character.
Damn near a travesty that killers can play and operate like this but if he was downing people with the same way he's doing in this video reaching a 4k, he'd be praised.
Edit: if I can play with Slate, TotalGranny, OhTofu, and potentially other famous people as my teammates.
While going against Finesse (Kaneki), MomoSeventh (4 times now), Ralph (Huntress main), BleakBTW (he was playing Dracula), Remylea (Spirit winstreak holder), Numia (Hillbilly winstreak holder), and many other killers I can't think of at the moment along with a comp clown - no excuses.
The true question is are you going to continue letting killers like this guy go around playing the way he is or are you actually going to want accountability and competence from your side? 🤔 I know my answer for my survivor peers. You won't gaslight me.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066019#Comment_4066019
No worries, I understand ❤️ definitely wasn't sarcasm. There's alot of great DBD players in this community (full disclosure, I'm not one of them lol) so wanted to give credit where it was due
Nah, don't put yourself down like that.
I'm sure you do play well and I have my moments where I'm not performing at my best - but that's just human nature in general. We all have our off days.
@solidhex yeah, okay - is there just a bunch of Avoidants on here who like to invalidate, minimize, and make up excuses for other people? It's always baby killers, but when killers curbstomp survivors they're fantastic.
Whatever floats your boat to keep your shared mentality going on in here.
- also, I do not care that you said the map is killer sided - Avoidants are on the survivor side as well, so again I know you're defending out of ego and again, not surprised about the lack of not being humble.
Also me? Carried by perks, lmfao.
I can't with you, just mental gymnastics - you should train for the Olympics in the next four years with all the flipping you're doing with your Avoidance.
I guess MomoSeventh is low-mid MMR, guys.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065984#Comment_4065984
No, I was complimenting you. It's really hard to get pallet hits on Nurse, but you managed it like a pro. I plan to try that move myself.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm, haha.
The video I linked prior was DocDBD, I only broke it down for people to understand why he did what he did in the videos. (he is the one pallet stunning Nurse)
I do not go out of my way to do it because most of the time I'm playing pubs or just playing with friends here and there when they ask me to play. Pallet stunning Nurse is a very high risk, low reward play as you would need pitch-perfect timing that I will acknowledge that I do not have like Doc does as I do not do 1v1s like a lot of the high MMR community does. So, my experience is primarily soloq brained - I've said for the longest that I probably have more hours in soloq than SWF, so I have a lot of ingrained rules in my head to do in both SWF and soloq. 😊 People really underestimate how much is involved with survivor gameplay, the same being killer gameplay - the difference, however, is that I do not belittle killer mains for their misplays like I see killer mains do to their peers.
Maybe it's the mentality, killer is their own - so, in their minds - if you misplay with Kaneki, you're disowned and don't own you. Same for Blight, Nurse, The First, etc. If you struggle, I'll give you tips on both ends, I don't discriminate because I believe both roles should opt to want to learn rather than blaming the other role for their loss - this is what leads to stagnation and burnt out, which is a major issue in the game (which I have spoken about before but I digress).
But thank you for the compliment regardless, I can never tell when someone is trying to attempt to put me in a "gotcha" scenario on here. I'll blame that on my Political Science degree, but I appreciate the love, @Nazzzak ❤️
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I want to say as a reminder:
No one touched the Momo point.
No one touched the chess analogy.
No one touched on the killer-validation culture.
No one touched the echochamber critique.
No one touched the point about survivor skill erasure that killer mains commit when given chase clips.
No one touched the DocDBD breakdown. ("Your movement is predictable.")
No one touched the meta logic.
No one touched the script analysis.
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The only thing that killers can clutch their pearls to is "lag". A default coping mechanism leading to @Dinadin to weaponize that sounds objective while being completely unverifiable.
Lag doesn't change the killer's predictability.
Lag doesn't change the killer's decision-making.
Lag doesn't change the killer's pathing.
Lag doesn't change the killer's animation tells.
It was about a few seconds of "lag" - however, lag or no lag....the killer's movement was predictable.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065813#Comment_4065813
Its funny how hard you try to justify something thats evidentially untrue. It wasnt you lagging, it was the killer. Take a look at the HUD, its clearly the killer lag symbol. Stop pretending otherwise, it just makes you look even worse. Second, everbody that knows how the game is played would agree that the wraith is a bad player cause he missed several sure his. And he doesnt know how to play pallets at all.
I literally was lagging, how can you tell me what is going on - on my own screen? Why did it lag me a little back when I went towards the building to go take the vault?
It's always survivor loops well -> killer is bad.
Survivor gets outplayed → killer is good.
You're running on faulty hardware to tell me that a killer needs to run at optimal efficiency at all times.
I love Fabiano Caruana in chess, Fabi makes mistakes, but he's still in the top best chess players with Magnus Carlsen. If Magnus Carlsen blunders against Fabiano, does the chess community look at the blunder and say that Carlsen is bad? No, unlike the Dead By Daylight community - the chess community actually requires analysis and data to determine what exactly happened in a game of Blitz, Rapid, and Classical.
Yet when a survivor outplays a killer, killer bad. I just find it so hilarious. My killer main friend will send me his Wesker clips and Kaneki clips seeking validation from me - I send him clips of me looping The First, Myers, and Wraith. You know what he says to me the first time he viewed the clip? The same broken down logic you brought to the table. The killer is stupid, the killer is embarrassing, why did you drop the pallet and not greed the first one (he genuinely asked me why I didn't greed an unsafe pallet).
But then I asked him what do you think of me in the clip? *crickets*. It's always about what did the killer do, what did the killer do wrong - absolutely zero praise given to the survivor for completely outsmarting the bull that rushes into the pallet and gets pallet stunned.
Do you know why killers love when survivors greed? So, they can get easy hits through the pallet. You're not that smart to tell me that I played against a bot when the "bot" is one of your own. It's honestly mind-boggling to me the echochamber you guys have built on this forum. I hardly if ever see survivors posting anything and when they do they get dogpiled on by killers such as yourself who not only cannot do deep analysis but has the audacity to demean your own killer peers and not uplift them - look in the mirror, I at least hold my survivor peers accountable and want them to do better - maybe then killers will get a challenge that isn't simply greed the pallet and hit them as they drop it.
Go through all my clips, please tell me when I looped a Blight with a meme build (Red Herring, Deception, Quick & Quiet, and Diversion) and tell me with a straight face that, that killer was bad and us survivors have no skill.
Meanwhile, you guys offer no advice when a survivor struggles against a killer. You guys doompost on here daily, no wonder killer is so "hard" - you work on a script and once that script is broken = killer bad, survivor OP, please nerf.
If killer is so hard and survivor is so easy, why does Otz play with Hens, JRM, and other people just to showcase survivor gameplay. Yeah, come back with a better debate, I'm bored.
Edit: Yeah, expected from an echochamber.
As I've shared this video before, this is how high MMR plays for the survivors who want to learn to deal with the whole greeding and learn how to pallet stun killers effectively.
https://youtu.be/TXVZ_CJcFhE?si=jT3MaEESg1mrEBTPAs I've shared this video before, high MMR players play safe to prevent the killer from getting the first hit to begin with. Waste the killer's time, that is how you get gens done and counter tunneling in higher ranks.
In the video - you see Doc dropping a flashbang around a car, the Artist looks up, he predrops the pallet to force Artist to put up a bird extending his chase - same mechanic I do, drop the pallet, make Artist play around the pallet.
In other ones, you see Doc stunning a Nurse with a pallet (obviously difficult) doesn't change my point.
You see Doc looping a Nurse and breaking line of sight, which I have said multiple times in the forums.
You see the Huntress getting punished by moving forward with a hatchet, missed, and pallet stunned (lack of patience and predictability).
You see Wraith's and Spirit's hands coming up for a strike, immediately pallet stunned. You see Blight matadored by Doc by a sidestep. (which I've done multiple times.)
People can argue and say there's only one legit pre-drop, but regardless - it's a road map to learn how to actually take chase and the Artist clip is literally the first piece of evidence you see.I won't get a response from Dinadin or any other killer main on this forum because it's all logical fallacies at the end of the day when the script has no logical framework.
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@poinepp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064571#Comment_4064571
hook bubble no longer blocks auras tho since krasue. It was already fixed
Is it? I swear a random of mine used Kindred and I could not see the killer at all.
I'd have to test it, but thank you - if not, it still needs to be implemented. No reason for bringing a basic Kindred and you can't even see where a Bubba goes without the bubble obscuring the killer and it would be nice to not have to use it all the time with Open-Handed.
I'll play with my Rebecca build and see (Kindred/Reassurance) sometime today.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065700#Comment_4065700
You dont have any proof besides a video showcasing a really bad player with laggs.
I was the one lagging in the video, if a Wraith cannot catch me lagging - it doesn't change anything.
You're the one focused on killer has to be "bad" at the game.
No nuance whatsoever - reminds me of why I dropped the killer role. Killer gameplay is too linear.
You play killer, something like Trapper - you put your traps around the tile or bushes - survivor steps in it, downed.
Wraith - hit, cloak, uncloak, hit - rinse/repeat. You guys act like survivor so easy, yet you're the one watching a video of mine - telling me the killer must be bad. I played against Momo yesterday, looped him for a bit - I guess MomoSeventh must be bad, right? Community is a joke, lmfao.
Edit: maybe the more I post about how killer is, my survivor peers will realize how linear your own gameplay is. You're not special nor are your content creators - check your ego at the door and learn to be humble. But this is a Dead By Daylight, survivor emotional/killer analytical yet you guys can't think without quoting Otz and Hens - literal walking parrots.
I must have struck a nerve with the emotional players, too bad.
You know what I'll edit even more just to show how logically bankrupt what you said was - if the Wraith was bad, what could the Wraith have done? If the Myers was bad, what could the Myers have done? I can look at my MomoSeventh game and come to the logical conclusion that Sable unhooking me allowed Momo to tunnel me out, but did I go to Momo's stream to complain? Nope.
So, tell me - you can watch all of my videos on YouTube, please tell me in every chase what the killer could have done if the baseline is - survivor loops killer, killer must be bad. Explain, but you can't.
New map comes out, the killers here who have thousands of hours cannot think of what killers are good on the map and explain why some killers struggle. Why is that? If killers are so analytical, why does it take someone who played your role to give you guys tips? Otz has more than likely double or triple my hours, yet can't even say his old main would dominate on the map. Hm............
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@BongoBoys said:
Otz demonstrates how frustrating it is on Trickster Delusion for a m1 killer with no movement abilities.
I get surprised that people take content creators as gospel.
Honestly, I think trap killers would excel on the map.
Kaneki and Wesker struggle on the map due to the clutter. I know if I go against these two in particular, I will go into the buildings themselves to prevent Kaneki (they're not good in indoor maps) from leaping around and hitting me easily.
Trickster suffers on the map unless you're out in the open. To me, a Wraith would be good on the map simply for the fact that he goes through pallets relatively easily and can deal with windows (a lot of Wraiths I see use Bamboozle). I think for the map, you have the little shops that counter specific killers - same for long stretches of the alley and streets that other killers can punish survivors in.
But that's just looking at how the map is structured. Anyone who thinks any and all M1 killers will struggle on the map is a heavy generalization when the map just came out days ago. A big thing I've noticed is people talk about the vaults but do not bring anything to counter the vaults (Bamboozle) and feel as if the map is just setting them up to failure. I still think the map is relatively one of the worst maps I would want to loop on - I'm not a fan of hold W, I actually do like to mind game with the killer, which you cannot do with the pallets in the streets - so hold W I go with those pallets as greeding them is useless, they aren't long enough to wrap around so I'll just use them for spacing or stuns.
Edit: wasn't Otz a Trapper main? Yeah, you can literally trap these strongholds down. Run 4 gen regression/3 gen regression with end game perk, trap the problematic loops. - that is what my ex killer self sees when I see the tiles in this map - but to each their own.
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@cogsturning said:
I've died in every survivor match I've played on this map. The pallets are horrible and there's lots of dead ends and empty stretches.
Yeah, I'd love a reference photo of all these god pallets and safe pallets.
To me, it seems Behavior made a hold W map and the unsafe pallets (which is what they are) are used to ensure the survivor continues holding forward and only dropping the pallet when you notice the killer is raising their arm to hit you (to ensure a pallet stun).
That is the only way I'd opt to play on this map in all honesty. The streets are unsafe in general, the vaults are great for the most part. I just play the map as me attempting to waste as much time as possible to ensure my teammates get the gens done.
It's gotten to the point where I just commit to a gen (if it's got a lot of progress on it) just to ensure it pops, just to get objective progress done. I don't naturally queue up for the map itself, but so far I've escaped like 2-3 times out of maybe the less than 10 games I've done overall.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065434#Comment_4065434
First, it doesnt matter what MMR level anyone has. Second, you video showcases a really bad Wraith player thats even lagging. I dont know whyx you even Mayers, one of the killers that struggle the most on cluttered maps. And "windows"? There are three windows in total, not worth even mentioning. There is nothing to learn from this video.
It's funny because I see survivors say Myers is overbuffed, but here you are saying, "Why Myers?"
The point was to indicate that you can manipulate the killer into overextending and committing to tiles that they should not be doing due to a lack of patience.
Regardless, there are way more than three windows on the map that you can chain but if your response is to minimize, invalidate, and deflect you saying that you cannot do anything on the map at all then I have nothing more to conclude with you.
People think that killers are pitch perfect humans and unable to make mistakes and any time a survivor loops them, they have to be "bad". Strange mentality we have in the Dead By Daylight community.
Edit: it's kinda like chess players playing in chess, but if one person blunders, and you capitalize - it doesn't matter that you "won", the other person was "bad". This is the only game that I've seen this type of rhetoric be applied to looping a killer. Methinks people have an ego and cannot admit when they're simply outplayed whether killer or survivor.
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@zonkednb said:
The first thing I did was check where Sable was at.
Yup. That tracks.Lmao, me too. 😂 I was like there is no way Meg is up there and I saw the Sable and I was like - yep, this tracks.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065290#Comment_4065290
You cant use Lithe there at all. Most pallets are so bad, that killers can easily lunge after you vault.
Hey, Dinadin - since we were talking about the new map earlier I wanted to drop somewhere here for survivors who are struggling (low-mid MMR especially, but honestly even high MMR can get tripped up on this layout).
Behavior doesn’t let me upload MP4s directly, so I tossed the clips on my YouTube just to make it easier to share.
This map basically forces you to play matador v. bull. You’re the matador, the killer is the bull. Traditional looping doesn’t work here, the geometry is too tight and the pallets are too unsafe, so the strongest option is often just holding W and taking the windows.
In the clips you’ll see me:
- greeding pallets instead of panic‑dropping
- holding W to avoid feeding Myers’ dash
- forcing him to re‑commit multiple times
- wasting his time instead of wasting resources
That alone bought enough time for gens to finish, and we ended up with a 4‑man out in SoloQ.
If you’re struggling on this map, don’t feel bad: looping and tile‑chaining are some of the hardest skill expressions in the game for survivor. I'm always happy to help fellow survivors learn the macro (game pacing) and micro (chase) side of things.
Clip in question + a bonus Wraith video on the same map:
https://youtu.be/O2Y0Z05NW5U?si=edNNl08CuhFjsJGN
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I find it so fascinating that when I asked for variables from the guy struggling with Trickster.
The guy did not respond, no one can respond.
I get downvoted and what do I see here? Killer mains circlejerking about how bad Trickster is. It's so interesting to me to see killer mains (who come from Hens and Otz) and when I ask you guys what do you struggle with? What type of map - are you hitting your shots, are you taking chase at a tile and not approaching it the way you need to.
Something Henz and even Otzdarva would do when watching a clip from killer mains - you get downvoted because of "feelings".
Killer: "Guys, Trickster feels bad! What did they do to my 4.6 m/s killer?! Behavior is ruining the game! Do they even want people playing Trickster?! All these guys want to do is make us play survivor and have you guys HEARD about Five Moves Ahead? Absolutely game breaking!! Give us killers 130% movement speed!! I can't catch up with the survivors, nerf survivor NOW!!" it's a joke.
You guys don't want help, you want to circlejerk and doompost on here, lmfao.
@Ricardo170373 , also I agree with you.
Edit: which side is more analytical again? I thought survivors were the crybabies on the forums? The emotional ones yet I keep seeing feeling. He feels bad, like oh my gosh - get me out.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065290#Comment_4065290
You cant use Lithe there at all. Most pallets are so bad, that killers can easily lunge after you vault.
Yeah, it's either get hit or you have the ability to Lithe just to end up at another bad pallet again.
I feel bad for low-mid MMR survivors who play, think they're bad, and then come to the conclusion that they are bad. This map is destined for failure points and this map does not teach any survivor how to chain tiles together.
You go from one unsafe pallet and then you have to go into a store to be met with another unsafe pallet. The only strong area to loop is market. Even the club for the most part is atrocious because there's not much to use there. Just horrible, horrible map design for looping (which is what survivors need to outlast the killer).
I think Behavior really does not know how low-mid MMR survivors think. They do not chain tiles and they do not recognize what an unsafe/safe pallet is - so, someone inexperienced goes to play on this map, they die, they think they're horrible at the game, they ruminate, and this is why and how Behavior loses new players and only keeps veterans like myself around.
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@Skeleton23 said:
I want to start with the positives here so people dont think im just hating just to hate
First: I want to say the map looks amazing. I like the start up sound which got me thinking, if every Realm should have there own start up sound like this map does.
Second: there is so much Detail on this map and ive been wanting to have a Street like map for a while now. I like the Easter Eggs and the amount of bodies everywhere. Definitely my favorite map when it comes to looks. I like every room has something different, every room had a thyme.
Now here is where im gonna share my Criticisms and concerns and I have problems with this map for both sides not just Killer or Survivor when playing on this map
Killer Feedback: this map Has so many God Windows its not funny. Some of the windows should have been Pallets or had a Breakable Wall to brake the Window and there is so many Unneeded pallets on this map that tie into Windows creating god tiles
Ill show what im talking about on Pallete tieing to Windows
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/THVQYTSXOXJY/1000017990.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZWD4VONTR3KQ/1000017989.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R30FN36JGWMU/1000017986.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SZ5X64LTXB1X/1000017987.jpg
Which what im showing is how close some pallets are to a window. And now let's see how many pallets are on this Map Defaultly
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OHSGM7Y6LHKV/1000018000.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BAESJBAZ88S3/1000017999.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TOO8T0GC06RM/1000017991.jpg
There is so many pallets that shouldn't be where they are. And this is just another "The Game/Meat Plant* where there is just to many pallets. So ur gonna need to slug alot on this map (not as much as The Game though) and bring Bamboozle.
Survivor: i Sadly cant show anything that can help, and my claims can be Skill Issue and may need more time on the map but I wanted to bring it up anyways.
this map is like a Maze. Its very hard to navigate and most of the time its hard to know exactly where I am, unless im in the main area. I find myself running into what I think is a doorway because of the lay out. It reminds me of The Treatment Theater where it is kinda hard to find where you are or where ur going. Which with over time maybe that can fix itself.
Some of the Pallet placements are a joke. Like there not even 50/50. There more like 5/5 which the Killer is winning it 99% of the time. Ill show some more examples.
What im showing now is The Pallets/ 5/5 loops that i generally dont see Survivors winning.
(fun Fact I crashed 5 times taking these Images)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WWE1SUESBZRD/1000018017.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P3ZJDP0IKBM4/1000018016.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6SD1HTZM6TXK/1000018015.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3YO54BITEURU/1000018014.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/16SEZPP9FLJA/1000018013.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WZX0EV6V9EII/1000018011.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4TWJGGCAP8RF/1000018010.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OHA5E8R1XLFR/1000018009.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RBEFKP743I5B/1000018008.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D6FLWLCHXTZI/1000018007.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O8RCYOWNXXYD/1000018006.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PFYUC6MCEGZF/1000018004.jpg
Like some of these dont look that bad but im sure you get my point.
Both: I wanted to add one more to say this map Has a massive performance issues that resulted me crashing multiple times, Rubber banning is parts if the map. And it could that theres just to much on the map. And this could explain the server issues.
Rapping it up: over all I dont think this is a failure of a map. If these issues can be fixed then I see this being a very fun map. If you guys have ur own Feedback or think I missed something dont be afraid to leave it in the comments.
I hope you all have a fantastic time in the fog
Insane how many 50/50s are in the images, lol.
It's a great looking map, I think moving forward I would like the level of depth from the map itself reflected onto other maps. Fallen Refuge to me was a disaster, I still think it should have actually been a real prison map or something.
I feel like Lithe users would work the best on this map due to how many unsafe pallets there are - thank you for showing them in the images even if that wasn't your intention.
Edit: I'll even expand on this more. If a map, such as this requires you to have to be a Lithe user to get any reward out of it - it is by definition bad game design. A survivor should have not have to use an exhaustion perk (Lithe) just to create some mobility on this map.
I know people like Dead Hard (I don't use it personally and I believe the 2 uses is a detriment to its usability compared to other exhaustion perks) but even in a situation where a survivor can pull off a Dead Hard - you will still go run into another 50/50 and die. I've only escaped once or twice on this map due to how badly the pallet geometry is. I say that as a person who does use Lithe, but even Lithe can't save you.
You Lithe the unsafe pallet, go elsewhere - you're back at an unsafe pallet. Overcome? Same situation. Dramaturgy? Same situation. I honestly think this is the worst map for looping bar none.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065273#Comment_4065273
Ah - yep. Okay. Fair enough. A blight did 1,2,3 my butt back to lobby even with decisive.
Dang, I'm sorry to hear about that.
I know the feeling at times and it's wild in a way that the game doesn't account for situations where the person is tunneled out but flagged as "inactive".
It should take account for more things, but I'm not surprised with how limited it is when it comes to day-to-day experiences.
@Mooks yes, the whole I'll unhook you even though the killer is high mobility, will come back, and continually tunnel you. I don't see it often, but I do feel bad for people who are on the opposing end of it. Even when I unhook people, I try to tell the survivor in a janky way that we are not healing at hook and if the killer comes back, I typically do a body protection hit.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065232#Comment_4065232
Where did I claim that killers are at a disadvantage at low-mid tier again? The claim I have been making is that m1 killers without mobility are at an inherit disadvantage, and at higher mmr are considered 3 stage killers. As confirmed, and is consensus documented by thousands of hours of footage all over youtube from comp dbd players. Thousands of 1v1 sets with game losing chase times, and many personal accounts from such players as well.
Consider your history of rejecting empirical evidence, I don't see why any other footage would help. Consider you yourself are unwilling to post your comp dbd 1v1 sets yet are trying to instruct me to record videos for youI think I'm gonna bow out of this conversation, but do/have you played survivor? I just find it a simple request to ask someone for footage if they're dominating.
Maybe I want to learn some stuff from your own survivor gameplay, I get tired of watching Cru5h, so it'd be nice to see you dominate killers routinely.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065227#Comment_4065227
You are simply trolling. But here are real comp sets for chase times as an example (pretty standard), should you be interested:
Alright, I'll be waiting when you show me killers start at an inherent disadvantage at low-mid MMR by again, asking YOU for your footage.
If it's so easy to loop, get gens done, and everything why can't you show me your footage? Do you have footage of you playing survivor? I have footage of me playing killer and survivor, so where is your footage?
..........?
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Also, no - you think comp DBD is where high MMR is? Lmfao.
So, I have to go play with Wispy, MomoSeventh, X9 Note, Angelz on full comms with complete clock callouts to be in high MMR. Get off your soapbox, show me your games of playing survivor.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065198#Comment_4065198
I regularly watch high level comp dbd gameplay, and if you knew how many killers are considered "3 hook stage" killers then you'd understand how dire the situation is for many of the m1 killers.
Also, if you say high mmr, you realize that the maximum mmr in dbd is capped at a pretty low level right? It's like capping chess mmr at 1600 and letting all 1600 players play with players up to 3000 mmr. Comp dbd is realistically the only real high mmr.
"If you feel you need to have speed hacks + Bloodlust to catch me, be my guest."
I feel like this statement is a bit of a strawman. This is not about catching you. This is about eliminating the completely uninteractive transport time that the already weak selection of killers currently has. A time that killers like nurse and blight do not have all while also having a way stronger chase power themselves than the killers for whom a chase power is all they have going for them.
"Oh yeah, another edit that I have. I don't need catch-up mechanics to play Onryo, Trapper, Doctor - yet you NEED it, talk about entitled to say I'd quit over anything, lmfao."
Everyone needs it on killers like trapper when paired in real mmr. You simply seem misinformed about how mmr works in public lobbies. When you convince yourself of are high mmr lobbies are in fact not high mmr lobbies. Comp dbd are the only real high mmr lobbies and if you think trapper is remotely balanced in high mmr in regards to hooking ability then that simply doesn't match the reality. Forget about how good you believe to be in chases, just based on pre-running it would already be over.
Trapper, as well as many m1 killers are considered 3 stage killers for a reason. Because that's realistically all they can chew. With tunneling and everything.So, are you ready to 70% movement speed for survivors? It takes me time to get to the three gen, I feel us survivors need that because the maps are so large. Have you seen the new map? Wow, I need 70% movement speed to get to the objectives because I see low-mid MMR dying with terrible soloq experiences.
Are you down for my proposal?
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065217#Comment_4065217
I think the general consensus of the entire Comp DBD community already suffices
No, show me YOUR footage of you dominating killers.
Please, show me your footage or are you a one-trick pony advocating for your side? Hm.
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I'll be waiting for your footage, please let me know when you upload it, OP. ❤️🤗
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065110#Comment_4065110
In regards to:
"We do not need to give a handholding mechanic to killers (130%!) speed boost for holding W."
I think this statement is actually very wrong. If you'd want to balance killers who are natively at a massive disadvantage due to their lack of navigating the map, merely due to how much passive progression the survivor team gets by virtue of being a slow transportation killer, either their main power would have to be overbearingly strong in chase, or it would be impossible to balance, so I think this statement by itself is already very wrong.
In regards to bloodlust: This is indeed a movement speed mechanic, but centered around chases. And for it's addition to the game it has in fact been unanimously great. This in fact testifies the importance of the Patrolling mechanic as it is made with the same philosophy; Without bloodlust, for many killers, a lot of pallets would be permanently safe pallets, unless their specific killer power was designed around making it not so. In the past, many spots may even have been infinites to some killers while not to others. These equalizing mechanics that have addressed the flaws in the core gameplay's fundamental mechanics have unanimously made the game better, and for the lack of these mechanics, you would've likely quit the game even sooner if you had any plans of quittingI really would love for you to watch high MMR gameplay with that type of mindset.
Please show me with your own footage how you can easily dominate killers over and over.
I think I'm fairly experienced at the game, but for you to act like the killer itself is at an inherent disadvantage? Okay.
If you feel you need to have speed hacks + Bloodlust to catch me, be my guest. I just know that Behavior would never implement what you just described, it would fundamentally break high MMR (where I'm located). I sympathize with low and mid MMR, I do - but at some point you need to stop asking for handholding mechanics. If WOO is handholding, all aura is handholding. I've had a Wesker literally kick a gen with Nowhere To Hide, I ran with scratch marks, and he did a complete 360 and could not find me. (Distortion ftw, BTW!)
Please be serious and do not be condescending - if the killer role was so horrible, why do people play it? Hmmm........
Oh yeah, another edit that I have. I don't need catch-up mechanics to play Onryo, Trapper, Doctor - yet you NEED it, talk about entitled to say I'd quit over anything, lmfao.
Oh yeah, another edit - I'm on a roll now.
If you argue that killers need 130% movement speed, I say for the low-mid MMR survivors we should also have 70% movement speed when we're not in chase to help us with macro to do our objectives. Are you aware of how silly that sounds?
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@katsekatse said:
Please revert these aura changes or at least let us use the default colors from ages ago. The news ones are fine but the yellows are washed out and the reds don't even match.
Also , there is no option to change the totem colors, so they are just stuck in that horrible yellow that you decided was good.
Please bring back the classic aura options, this is a welcome change but there are people that like the old auras intensities and colors.
I see, yeah I did fidget with the colors earlier.
I actually made my gens white, so they're clear as day for me to see because the red - I think it's because I just got so tired of seeing red (ironic as it's my favorite color).
Survivors are just blue for me (my second favorite color, so I don't mind the changes). I even made the killer white so the killer doesn't blend with the dreaded bubble. I have no complaints other than the bubble, but I can see your perspective as well and hopefully Behavior takes your suggestions in as well. - along with all the other comments in this thread too.
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@solitude_ said:
New key is totally useless. I liked to use a key with blood amber and prayer beads, it gave so much value whether being chased or doing gens within killers aura. And it used to be very useful in solo q, where most often you are being stomped by killer or randoms just dc or ruin and the only hope is a hatch. So yes, old key was a good thing to play with.
Even though I liked to use the wall hacking key - like you mentioned.
On my end, no - sure, I miss doing that (you can still do it technically, it's just charge based and the killer can see you). I like the fact that I can just use it and find my survivors teammates with the click of a button. Sure, I don't use Blood Amber anymore (last time I did was when testing it with Distortion) but regardless, the benefit that a key gives now is far more valuable than a niche tracking way to see the killer while holding a button.
If you want something like that use Troubleshooter, Alert, Object of Obsession, anything aura reading while in chase - but I know the answer from my survivor peers will be that they do not want to get off their meta builds to do what I just described and that's okay, but let's not kid ourselves here.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Over time, as the killer roster has been expanding, we've seen increasingly that more and more killers have fallen into the weak killer category. Sometimes even mocked in the dbd comp community as 3 stages killers; killers who can only get 3 stages over the whole match if played optimally. And what do these weak killers all have in common?
A Lack of mobility and map pressure.
It's no secret that bigger maps disproportionally make non-mobility killers weaker, where currently, the top roster of killers all have map mobility as a side-consequence of their killer power. Blight, Nurse, and slightly further down Kaneki, Billy, etc.
Now it'd be sad if we'd have to make every killer power in the future to also somehow be a map mobility skill in order for these killers to be able to have any relevance is higher level lobbies. That's why I say, no: We should target the fundamental flaw that non mobile killers have right now, so that killer power design can flourish and be diverse. But that means that we have to fix a fundamental game mechanic: Movement.
Luckily, DBD has already addressed this in the past, with mechanics such as Bloodlust. These fundamental gameplay adjustments have been great, and these mechanics have added a lot of higher level play as well, such as shift-teching etc.
But right now we are missing one: A fundamental movementspeed mechanic that helps killers get around the map, but doesn't help them in chase.
PATROL MODE
When holding the forward button (without pressing other movement buttons like sideways) while not in chase for over 5 seconds and not running over scratchmarks, your movement speed starts to accumulate up to a maximum of 130% (experimental number). Disables when running over scratchmarks or entering chase. When the effect disables, you get slowed down slightly for a second
Why is patrol mode so great?
Because now, every killer has the ability to move around the map fast, by holding forward. And although they can do more than move in a straight line by quickly moving their camera and change directions, they don't nearly have the same ability to look around as much as when they are walking normally and being able to fully look around without also moving in that direction. This makes it so that survivors can still hide without having to deal with a faster killer necessarily. The patrol mode is mainly useful when you want to move to a distant location in the map, giving weaker non-mobile killers the chance to play the game more, and not wasting half of the match traversing empty maps without a chase while the objectives get done without much interactivity, allowing non mobile killers to play as action packed as the current speed demons we all know and love 💕
Also, if you have a better name to name this mechanic, to fit the thematic naming, such as bloodlust, feel free to share it down below!I will admit that the game is hard to balance when you have people gravitate towards mobility killers (Henry, Krasue, Wraith (yes, even Wraith), Kaneki, Hillbilly, Blight, Nurse, Wesker, etc).
We do not need to give a handholding mechanic to killers (130%!) speed boost for holding W.
I do not want to imagine me seeing a killer zoom across the map and then slow down while in chase with me. To me, and I'm sorry if this wasn't your intention - you are fundamentally describing how a killer might hack and then go slow. You are describing hacking level movement baked into the killer.
We already have Bloodlust, they buffed it years back when they changed the gen speeds by making it easier to obtain (less time to get it), made survivors lose more distance (you can look this up, I'm not going to give you the information - you can do this yourself).
So, no - I would hate to see this mechanic at my MMR brackets. I honestly would probably retire my account entirely, move to GTA 6, and hope that a new game would come out to fill that niche that Dead By Daylight gives.
Trapper was my second most used main after Onryo, I do not need 110% movement speed as Trapper or Onryo. This is functionally game-breaking and I don't know how to take this at all. Bear in mind, I did not use basement Trapper - pure slowdown (Pop, Surge/Pain Res, Grim Embrace, and No Way Out) - your recommendation even if I don't want to go play killers (I am not interested in the role anymore) would really make me not even want to load up a customs and play as the killer (like I did with The First recently).
I appreciate your level of thinking and trying to make the game more dynamic, but I would hate this version of the game - and this isn't accounting for the fact that high mobility killers would get this, yeah no thanks.
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@coldflame said:
this season we get:
a new survivor
a new survivor perk thats a straight upgrade to the highest pickrate perk in the game (why?)
one of the most survivor favoured maps ever released (very stiff competition in this category but i think trickster's delusion might be top 3)
a new keyword system for perks that appears to serve the sole purpose of nerfing pretty much any niche or off-meta killer perk interaction that had any risk of being good
main killer feature of the patch is apparently dramatic nerfs to a b/c tier killer for reasons that are unclear to me
im not sure what my incentive is to pump money into the game as a killer player
Okay, okay, okay.
How is the new map survivor sided? I hate playing on the map, I'm not saying it's impossible but the map is straight up full of unsafe pallets and 50/50s. I would rather play on Midwich, yes - Midwich because at least there are tiles I can play around on the map even if it's one of my least favorite indoor maps (that and Hawkins to an extent).
I'm not going to dive into this whole Trickster b/c category, I'm not going to repeat what I said in the Trickster thread.
Even though I understand the sentiment killers have when coming across WOO, even though I played around with survivors with WOO - as I've said on the forums months ago or whenever I shared my Doctor game on Greenville Square (not the actual game, honestly I should have recorded it because this is getting a little hyperbolic when it comes to WOO). If you notice a survivor is hopping from pallet to pallet, you can tell they are either using WOO or someone who knows tile geometry. You can opt to completely ignore them (just like I did with Leon) and focus on other survivors in the trial. I do not know why killer mains or flex players feel as if they need to stay committed to someone who is deliberately showing you that they will loop you (again WOO doesn't teach proper looping fundamentals, but I digress).
If I have to sit here and plan my route as survivor when I play this game, you can sit there and plan your route to determine which survivor is best to chase. On the occasion that you get WOO on all survivors then sure, but at that point that's when you recognize a pallet = resource. Kick the pallet, run Dissolution/Bamboozle/Blood Favor (if them using windows and pallets bother you) /Mindbreaker/Languid Touch (if exhaustion bothers you) - work around it, adapt - just like I do when I load into a game and deduce what the killer has.
The perk you are talking about is a micro level perk that sure, survivors will use because a lot of survivor gameplay is micro (movement, flashlight plays, camera movement, determining medium v. fast vault, stopping a gen from regressing, etc) - I'm not saying I don't use micro movement - obviously I do, but I am much more interested in the macro gameplay (healing times, resetting, gen breaks, taking chase, taking hits, tile memorization, etc). I don't think the perk, along with WOO is that good. People can like them because of the information it gives, I'd rather have Alert or Any Means Necessary as it fits my macro brain. - I will not use the perk because to be honest, I find it boring - sure, you can drop a pallet and move faster but I already know how to move and loop around a pallet, I don't need a perk to make me move a little faster. I'll take my Flow State and go do gens, heal people faster, and be content with the tempo and game that plays out - I don't need it.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065020#Comment_4065020
I think there's a massive disconnect between what's being written and what's being interpreted dude. Text is famously bad at conveying tone.
I'm not under duress. I'm not sure what you mean by anxiety-inducing language. I've already gone into length about what I meant by crutch.
I mention offense because you mentioned taking offense earlier in the thread, before realising none was intended. I was aligning with that.
Hoping you are not too stressed out has nothing to do with how you feel in-game. I was actually trying to be nice because of your previous statement that the disconnect you feel from the forums makes you feel the need to take a break from them. I presumed that was due to negative feelings and was wishing you well with that. No malintent, no accusation. My only mistake was presuming the breaks you take from the forum are a result of stress with said disconnect.
I'm not seeking validation. I'm making lighthearted jokes about my own newness and desire to grow. I'm not even being reactive, as I myself am perfectly fine and calm. Speaking on my own improvement is me being optimistic, not doubling down or presuming you doubt me. I honestly don't know from where you're getting my intent :/. Don't project unkind motivations onto me, the same way you're hoping I would not to you.
I'm just here chatting about a game I like. I'm quite saddened that doing so has me viewed this way.
But yes, I think this conversation ran its course. Later!Oh my gosh, alright dude.
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@DemonicDemons said:
It's no question I think the mass majority of the community loves pre-rework myers as he was just more fun to play. Post rework especially now with the elusive perks he has fallen way down the tier list in my opinion, especially scratched mirror myers, he feels so bad to play not to mention there is only two add-ons designed to work with scratched mirror myers which is the 4.4ms boost and increased pools of blood/scratch marks. I am currently about to run a couple of games without the 4.4ms boost to see how it negatively impacts him, I don't expect myself to have any fun at all tbh. In all honestly losing the minor speed boost probably isn't worth it.
With the addition of elusive Scratched mirror myers is now virtually useless given his negative speed and unbelievably low lunge distance, yes you can use haste perks like PWYF but you're giving up gen progress in order to get it and most other haste perks require very specific conditions usually completion of a gen or chasing an obsession on top of the fact that gens are just absurdly fast normally but you REALLY feel it with this character. I honestly use to love pre-rework myers specifically for jump scaring survivors but I rarely get the opportunity to do so now. With the new map addition I thought this would be the perfect map for him but I barely got a kill with him and managed to get a second kill due to survivor error at the very last second. One of the biggest issues is speed and survivors being able to see you even a couple seconds ahead of time and pre-run, if they have sprint burst/lithe or even the minor 3% haste from the boon perk, forget about it, the chase is over before it begins.
So with the rant out of the way I'd like to ask your opinions on how you other myers mains play scratched mirror and give any tips on how to better my experience while trying to utilize this kit. I honestly don't care for slaughtering strike but it is 99% of his entire build now so I just opt to not use him for the majority of the time, the times I do use him is when I'm trying to fill that void of what he use to be but am ultimately let down every time I decide to do so. I and many others wish the devs didn't feel the need to nerf/rework him because what made him unique is just completely gone now. No offense to certain commenters but I don't need the comments about how you can use his new add-on to expose survivors to make him feel like old myers, it honestly just isn't the same.
I was totally fine only getting 2 kills with old myers against good teams or sometimes no kills at all because there were other games where I could actually 4k or destroy toxic players once you finally reached level 3 but this new update just doesn't hit and I've been trying for awhile now. With all the other changes the killer experience in my experience has degraded quite a lot from when I started playing a short time ago. I often sit on the title screen debating which killer I'd like to use but often opt out and choose survivor because the killer experience feels vastly similar whereas before each killer felt unique in their own way, below is a picture of the only killers I have left to purchase but can't bring myself to make the purchase because at this point it'd honestly make more sense to invest in survivor perks with how bland the killer experience has become and on that note the survivor role gets extremely dull fast so even contemplating the decision to invest in survivor perks doesn't hold much merit because I just don't enjoy the survivor role as much as I did the killer role.
Now I'm stuck in a place where I don't feel like I'm having fun very often and am often sitting afk at the lobby. Perhaps it's time I move on to another game but it's a shame because before all these reworks the game actually left me wanting to come back for more despite having some bad experiences here and there, now it's just a consistently frustrating experience leaving me feeling like my time would be better spent somewhere else, not trying to trash the game just trying to give feedback on how my experience has shifted with these recent updates.
I will give my opinion on this, it might be unwarranted but hear me out.
When you play scratched Mirror Myers, how exactly are you playing? Are you being predictable in how you're operating (I can tell from how a Myers is moving exactly what and how they play). If you are coming at me thinking that I'm going to panic vault into you, it's not going to happen.
However, if you play more mind-game heavy and actually more unpredictable you will actually surprise me. A lot of scratch Mirror Myers so, so predictably that I can read them quite easily.
As evident here: https://youtu.be/zN2K9w3hucY?si=MppH80ealISsWpgy
Sorry for the chaotic commentary, but here is me deliberately challenged a Myers once I have figured out how they operate. Yes, I do go down after the first hook (after a strong chase, in my opinion) because I guessed wrong on the mind-game. However, that Myers in the video literally abandoned me because he could not capture me.
If you playing predictable and I can see you, I will play around you. This is why in mid-high MMR even with a stealth killer like Myers and Ghostface, you need to actually think about how you're coming at me. This is why high MMR players will moonwalk to hide their red stain and sometimes it works on me, other times it won't - I don't get mad, I might say something about it, but I'm not going to send you hate-mail saying you outplayed me and I'm salty you hit me when I doubled back on a wall like I did with this Myers.
The point is to be unpredictable because once I can predict you, it's done.
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@CuteDwight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065063#Comment_4065063
Yep, I can see how Elusive frustrating the killer who wants to tunnel for builds like Remember Me, or just simply wants to tunnel, but that's the point why the "perks" exist, you build them for a playstyle and/or to counter a playstyle. And I'm glad you mentioned it.
Those rework suggestion are based with my experience, as a Altruism perk lover, these perks which has stealth effects can't really do thier jobs(hide people from killer) at most of the times, and it might finally do things with these buffs.
And the main purpose of why this post is made is because I really love this new bunny status effect, and I would love to see it appear in more perks! :D
For sure, I see perks as cause-effect.
It's why when I see all the time here and in my own games of tunneling, I will use these perks.
Borrowed Time + Off The Record
Borrowed Time + Babysitter
Off The Record + Blood Rush
Off The Record + Wicked
Believe it or not, I do not use Decisive Strike. Not that I think the perk is horrible, I just don't care for a 4 second stun when most of what I see in my games are Nurse, Blight, and Kaneki. I would rather have OTR + Blood Rush to waste your time. You hit me, I use BR to trigger another Sprint Burst. You want to come after me still, I will take you away from your three gen and I will take you across the map on a journey.
That's why I use Deja Vu, so I can directly loop away from the 3-Gen if in chase or break it so it never comes an issue to begin with. I do believe that the new perk, I can't be bothered to look it up won't really have as much play time in mid-high MMR - it's too situational to only apply to the obsession, but I also understand why Behavior didn't make it a universal experience either.
I like the idea of it, it would help people in low-mid MMR to stop being tunneled so early on in their own games - but mid-high MMR would also be affected to survivors more efficient and you have killers being upset over that. To me, as I've always said perks are tools and you will get consequences for the perks each side brings or playstyle the killer/survivor provides for a trial.
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Yeah, I do not mind having these applied to the previous iterations.
I am aware that people will view them too strong because people will argue that tunneling is a part of the game, "Why are you taking a part of the game away from me?" I will say that I do believe if you apply this to a Borrowed Time, No One Left Behind, Babysitter - I'm only speaking on these three because they are my experience of providing anti-tunnel to other survivors (even if I don't use NOLB myself all that much)...you will see killers, at least in mid-high MMR proxy camping more (which I myself do not mind, you proxy camp to your heart's content I am going to go do gens, reset other survivors, or I will waste your time on the hook.) type of mentality.
So, even though I can your perspective on giving these perks a little love (I do use Borrowed Time and Babysitter together) just to prevent someone from being tunneled off hook. I will tell you by I know how killers are and how they think (even if I haven't played that side of the role seriously in a year) if I was an Onryo main (who I played) and I saw Behavior apply that to the game and I came from a "I must tunnel you to create a 1v3 as quick as possible." (I didn't think like this when I played Onryo - however, this is what high skilled killers think and operate on.
They think, "Okay, you're going to handhold the survivors more - I will proxy camp to ensure once I see Yui off the hook I will follow her, down her, hook her again (it's why you see so many people complain about second chance perks).
Why is it that second chance perks get so much hate? You have to eat a DH to rehook a survivor, you have to eat an OTR/DS to rehook a survivor, under your want to add this stuff to other perks - the same logic applies.
I am fine with it, if I notice a killer is proxy camping or let's say a killer gets in chase with a Sable in the middle of the map. I unhook Yui with BT/Babysitter + Elusive effects, you will have people complain that my build (which isn't meta at ALL) is unfun, unfair, and ruins their tempo.
Edit: I do believe people should have people on the hook longer. I will sit on my gen and complete it and I will look at the hud determining - my Gen is the lowest progress I go for save, my Gen is the highest progress I can wait and complete my Gen first. - same thing for when I see someone getting tunneled, I will unhook the later into their unhook progress bar. There is no reason why a survivor who notices a killer is tunneling to go insta-unhook them again. I will take a protection hit for the tunneled survivor, I'll try to heal the tunneled survivor - but I am not going to go down for you (killer will down me, I'm on the ground, and then Yui is still in chase wanting to be obliterated from the match). I can sympathize with tunneled people, but you know I cannot control that any more than taking a hit for you, pallet stunning, or flashlight save (even if this is only seconds of help, that's all I can provide for you).
Just my 2 cents here.
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@MoZo said:
haven’t noticed it myself but i seen a clip of someone spawning like 7 feet away from a Hillbilly on Ormond Lake Mine. hopefully someone put in a report on BetaHub so it can be addressed asap.
Yeah, spawns - just like any other Dead By Daylight metric is RNG.
Even when I use the offering to separate the survivors (I typically use them when I want to spawn away from survivors in soloq because I hate spawning near them) I will use them and still see people kinda spawn with each other.
But I mean, again it's all Dead By Daylight at the end of the day. It's not perfect with complete random RNG.
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@bigphil0005 said:
The 4.4 nerf is making him so rough to play now. 4.4 for someone like huntress, because 1 hatchet does 1 health state. They want you to hit people and kick stuff for style points but its much harder to get a M1. He just feels super weak to me now.
I must ask for variables here.
Are you hitting your shots? Are you committing to areas where the survivor is around a tile (jungle gym, wall, etc) or still struggling on open maps and not hitting your shots? I consistently see Tricksters in my games getting downs because they are zoning survivors into areas where they cannot dodge as easily.
There is a lot involved rather than just saying this "killer" sucks. It might simply and I mean this wholeheartedly that this killer might not be for you.
I have played The First in customs and even though I can see why people like him (zone-prediction, cutting off survivors, locking down survivors who choose to throw pallets and punishing them) - I still to this day love how Onryo plays because I like her game to game sense of play. It literally could just be either this killer is not for you (which is okay to admit) or simply that you are not zoning the survivors properly.
You should not be reacting to survivors and their movement, you literally are the power role. The survivor reacts to YOU, not the other way around. Yes, there are survivors who left, right, left, right tango dance at a pallet but you are the person who is going to change the outcome by either hitting them or missing, that is you as a killer.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064929#Comment_4064929
Honest to goodness there was literally no offense intended, my dude. I was crediting you for being creative because most discourse I've seen as a newer member of the community has revolved around very specific perks. It was great for me to learn what the consensus was, but it also left the hundreds of other perks a bit abstract and confusing.
I think we are similar in mindset, less so skill level. In that, we're not particularly meta-bound and critical without cause. Instead, we approach from the angle of what we enjoy most about the game. I see perks like tools as well, and don't worry too much about things like second chance perks. I can empathise why they're annoying, sure, but if they're being used passively, you're playing against a survivor with one less tool in the belt, and if they're being used aggressively, like baiting chase for DS, it honestly only delays the inevitable in my experience. Not that they are bad perks at all! More that there is opportunity cost there and I think people neglect that in favour of how annoying they can be from a killer's perspective (this is where I think the friend you mentioned earlier in the thread is at).
I didn't come in completely blind either. My partner has played DBD for years so she was able to guide me a little, and I did start consuming some streamers and picking up little things here and there. Following on from that came reading up on things, watching actual guides instead of weekly highlights, and of course, playing the game on my own without someone helping me out. I don't believe myself a total scrub! I'm by no means good by established player, but I can hold my own in my MMR and have been advancing on both sides to seeing more consistent high level techs being used correctly. That tells me I'm moving in the right direction :)
I don't believe there's any shame in running Windows, Bond, Deja Vu or anything like that. From a practical standpoint, I fear only stunting myself. Nor do I think anyone is claiming superiority for not running them (unless they outright state they are superior) because so many things in this game will become second nature at high levels that many players won't need them. Hell, even the kind of gamesense I've seen to track every burned resource on the map at once, making WoO nigh an empty slot for some. That to me is amazing and I wish one day to be at that level. I just want to be conscious of how actively I'm taking in the info Windows is providing me, vs passively pathing towards the next "make distance" map element and hoping it works out.
Maybe when you take your next break, you'll come back after my training montage and I'll be theorycrafting builds and posting my own 5 gen loops and 3 min 4ks. In the meantime, I hope you are feeling good and not too stressed out.
GL to ya!Lmfao, I am not stressed out - I don't know how you read that whole thing and signaled that I am the one under duress - but again, this is exactly what I typed out.
I literally thanked you, your reaction was defensive.
I don't know man, I don't know how you can read calm, composed, and be reactive but yes - thanks for the exchange regardless - best of luck to you.
Edit: this is what I'm talking about with anxiety inducing language. I do not operate like that because of my ability to differentiate between games. Exactly why earlier I mentioned I do not take the game from last time - think my game where I said my whole team went down to Trickster due to main event (that people struggle with in the Trickster thread). Do I take that frustration out on the next Trickster I see? Nope, I notice what works, apply it, and adapt.
I am never under stress in this game, at all - do not project that onto me, please and thank you.
Edit 2: also, you do not need to explain yourself to me. Just because I say I view the game different from where I play does not mean I look down at others for not knowing counterplay with another killer. I literally go out of my way to write long, composed messages helping both sides (Anxious, Autistic killer main seeking advice that no killer main for some reason could not provide) to Krasue, Kaneki, and The First counterplay. I do not want you to feel as if you need to double down and tell me that you are improving, I literally said that you were improving in my last text.
Point being, play how you want. Learning is not linear, it's up and down. You will have good games, you will have bad games, you will be steamrolled in some games, and completely dominate others - the only person you need to worry about impressing and needing hype/validation from is yourself - not me, a random player who can see the game differently.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064843#Comment_4064843
I think it's okay to give credit for breaking the norm. Regardless of if, in an ideal world, the norm shouldn't exist in the first place. Because yes, in said ideal world, people would make individual choices for their builds/playstyle based on what they enjoy or feel most comfortable with. For some, external validation is required for that, due to lacking confidence, or needing a level of outside information to click the pieces together in how a build would work. For others, if it's fun, they do it. You fall into the latter, by what you're saying.
When I say crutch, referring exclusively to myself, it comes less from a place of self-depreciation or disrepect to someone running Windows per se, and more due to me not having every map and tile down pat just yet. Bad-habit-builder is more of a mouthful than crutch, and sometimes I worry just how well I'd play without it. As I said before, sometimes I'm okay and run the map as I should be doing for best effect, other times I'm less put together and literally run to the next yellow. When I'm doing that specifically, I know I'm engaging in behaviour that isn't really helping me improve. And I, as a player, would like to.
My fun is seeing those incremental improvements. Comparing my first few chases to today, it's stark, but I still remember the first time I successfully transfered from one tile to another without eating a health state and kept the loop going for a little while longer. It was hardly a clip-worthy multi-gen loop, but it was the first time I successfully made a 'play,' no matter how modest it was.
Modern era players, such as myself, that didn't get any prolonged time growing with the game, have stepped into an established meta with players that know all the maps and mechanics intuitively. Experimentation is heavily punished and the game is so frontloaded with information and knowledge checks that it does not surprise me that people are scared to deviate. It's sort of like art, in a way. It's not about breaking rules; it's about knowing the rules so you know how to break them. Basically, a good knowledge of perkless fundamentals is key, and that knowledge base takes at least hundreds of hours to grow for all but the fastest learners.
Players that are snobby about builds or build ideas without consideration of what the intended effect is are dumb though. Fun>Meta every day of the week.Yes, I think after the previous comment and even the Trickster thread I noticed I must be operating on high MMR logic and I forget that high MMR people more than likely are not present here.
Not trying to be rude, that's why I took offense earlier to your previous comment but now I can see the skill gap present between the two of us and the other stuff I often feel disconnected from in the forums. - now it all makes sense to me.
I think because I've met 1k hour players in my own MMR bracket, but I should have seen the more anxiety inducing language (worrying about crutches, validation, as a major indicator of the gap between the wavelength). You are correct that you as a player with less hours than me (even though I do see people with your hours in high MMR - not saying you are bad, I am just giving my reasoning on why I believed you and I were similar earlier)
I won't argue against the mentality that people enter at a point of time where meta and existing conditions didn't exist, I was that back when I first played. However, my level of learning was immediate - I did not play the game without any knowledge. I do this with every game I play, I look into the strategies to do better but I know now that people did not naturally do that. They would spawn in, act like the Claudette, be memed on, and not even know why they're being memed on.
I did not enter the game as the crouching Claudette, I watched Dead By Daylight content religiously every day and got better through watching content. However, again I now know that is not the norm for normal people from now realizing I am seeing low MMR survivor and killer mains upset at each other and blaming the other role. This was very eye-opening for me to recognize.
Moreover, yes - the level of what you are doing is improvement, it's what I did years ago and started having when I started clipping my own chases years ago. I only recently started uploading the content because I got tired of people complaining (mostly on here) about how horrible soloq is. Now I truly understand why I can load in my soloq games and enjoy my games, I just play and operate on a whole different level than the normal players on here. I just realized that I don't even think the survivors here know what micro and macro play even is, lol.
Thank you for allowing me to understand why the gap between not only myself to others are on here (it's why I take breaks, I can only take so much tit-for-tat on these forums) and also understanding why I see so much vitriol from both sides - it's genuinely one side thinking the other is harder, easier, feeling based - and I now know why I view the game much differently than people here.
But yes, I do different builds not because of comfort - not because I want to act like I'm superior to others, or whatever someone might think when I say I don't need WOO. I genuinely get bored if I play the same build over and over, so I like that I create different builds per survivor - hence why I advocate for synergy, but now I truly know that I operate much differently than most people here, lol.
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@SpiritWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064557#Comment_4064557
Played a match on Grim Pantry where Survivors would run to Main Building and just run circles around the upper and lower parts and, due to being 4.4 m/s, would be impossible to catch up to them once the broke LOS.
On top of that, when patrolling Gens as best I could, they would pre-run at just the sound of the "Lullaby" into the nearest structure, wasting even more time.
TL;DR I've basically had nearly ZERO interaction with Survivors the entire match other than seeing them disappear in the distance or seeing a Gen pop.
I must be coming across different levels of Trickster that I've experienced today. I've seen Trickster rip through endurance, downing with ease with Main Event in my own games today.
Easily downing people with their blades due to the lower hit threshold.
So, I don't know if my Tricksters I face are just highly, highly skilled Tricksters or if the forums are genuinely suffering as this new Trickster is out. I won't comment on his/her strength because I am aware of how it takes time to get used to a new version of what the killer was prior, but the idea that Trickster is completely helpless due to a speed nerf is where I get disconnected from what the forums is describing versus my own personal gameplay.
I literally watched today, not even an hour ago - a Trickster from my own game ripping through the endurance of a survivor, downing them, downing the person who unhooked them, and downing the person who helped unhook in basement. Now, this was quick succession and you could argue, sure - it was Coldwind but I do not adhere to this whole notion that Trickster is horrible. Yes, I've played old Trickster and this new Trickster from my experiences of seeing him (I was actually genuinely surprised that I did not see a single Kaneki - I don't know if that's a cause-effect here, I'm just pointing that out).
So, yes I learned to counter this specific spam heavy - I hit you with less blades. I will hold chase moving forward, I will punish you by doing generators, and I will get out of the game otherwise I am getting pelted at with less knives and a long main event that occurs.
But I digress, I am aware that some people might struggle with Trickster but I hardly if ever came across some noobie Trickster and probably can count it on one hand - but that is my two cents regarding the killer.
I just become very gen efficient just so I can get out of the trial, so that I'm not constantly pelted and downed easily. Don't even get me started on the new map full of dreaded 50/50s.
I love the aesthetic, I love the fact that Behavior put a lot of effort into it (even I still see the same copy/paste stuff, I am so surprised we do not have textured fruit?) - minor gripe, but why does the fruit look all congealed and alien like? But that is my opinion on the chapter.
My favorite perk from the chapter was of course Flow State because I like to play macro heavy, it's a macro perk - didn't really care for Five Moves Ahead but it doesn't fit my playstyle it is whatever to me.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
This wasn't a comeback, it was a mockery. Especially compared to what survivors got— Windows Of Opportunity is still a problem, and rather than address it, BHVR gave survivors an even stronger new version of it.
Five Moves ahead, especially with the Cooldown-Increase, is not really a better version of WoO. Let alone that WoO is not really a problem at all.
Yep, I agree with Aven here.
If anyone truly believes that someone would swap off WOO (something that gives on-demand information to know where to loop, create pathways) for the new perk is fooling themselves.
I can see it becoming a perk survivor uses - survivors love their chase perks and to their brain, I drop pallet and move faster goes off like a little light bulb moment. I can see people using them in tandem with each other.
I tried using the perk earlier, I'm not a WOO player on my end and even I can see the similarities with WOO + I drop pallet faster and move faster (micro gameplay). I don't think I will use the perk myself, I'm not into micro gameplay as much as other survivors.
But I also do not hold the idea that WOO is a necessarily bad thing (people use it to learn tiles, soloq use it learn which resources are still there). So, I'm kinda mixed on WOO (a training wheel perk) vs. (on-demand information). I guess I do not have much of a stake in this fight because I don't need WOO, I don't shame people for using WOO, but WOO doesn't make you a good looper.
Sure, it can walk you through here is pallet, I greed pallet or I drop pallet. But just because you have something leading you somewhere does not teach fundamentals like chaining tiles and reusing tiles (going back to tiles when the current tile is unsafe to be in). WOO doesn't teach you how to run jungle gyms, so I'm a bit iffy on it but generally would not care what happens to it because I do not need it.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064469#Comment_4064469
I agree that, as survivor, there isn't a need to take it easy on anyone. Like you mention, the killer dictates the pace of the game, so as survivor you don't get to decide when to sweat and when not to. I will engage if some silliness with the killer if they elect for it though. A quick nod exchange over a pallet etc. As for bully squads, to be honest they just lose games in my experience.
Honestly, it's down to the individual in this game to find their own win condition. Yes, it's nicer to escape as survivor but if I feel I contributed, there's no salt if I don't. If a killer wants to slug for the 4K, I don't mind. They'll have their own reasons for doing it and that's their fun to do so. It's me that got slugged/allowed my team to all be killed so easily without executing enough pressure of my own before it got to this stage.
I've either never been hit by Smash, or it happened early enough in my DBD career that I didn't notice it. I don't think I've ever seen it in lobby post-game either, which is bizarre. It's niche, certainly, but I feel it's simple enough that someone would want to run it on occasion. Props to you for being surprising, I suppose.
I admit I am still somewhat reliant on Windows. Despite this game being in my top 10 most played on steam, I'm still learning maps, pallet spawns, vault locations and how all of those things vary. I'm quite sure I'll need several hundred more hours to begin knowing these things intuitively. Then again, I know gen spawns now outside of the new map, so perhaps not quite that long? Who knows! It does feel crutchy sometimes. I try to be sure of where I'm running to but there are still times where I W towards the yellow and figure it out when I get there, which is a bad habit.Oh yeah, I remember a Steam user being nodding Wesker and I genuinely enjoyed him. I have my grievances with Wesker - I can feel his gameplay is a bit repetitive for me (I also didn't like the whole I drop pallet - Wesker hits me and I'm on the other side of the pallet) - incredibly frustrating. Anywho, I would have a blast with him. Same for the Wesker who would try to do their little Wesker techs and let the survivors go. However, I have seen similar killers that try to be like that and completely derail a whole game. I can remember a Ghostface running Rancor (I was obsession) and I believe he had a full end game build - I can't remember everything, but just know I knew he was not friendly - my random soloq believed he was friendly. Last gen pops, NOED is active, people go down like flies, and I'm the only one that escaped so my mentality typically is I play serious, just like I believe my opponent is also being serious. ^ simply for situations like that.
Yes, my certain win condition is as I said to the previous poster. If I die and my death contributed to the last gen popping, the exit gate being opened, my team being able to reset, etc. - I take that as a personal win. There is obviously a difference between a personal win and a direct win condition, but you know I get incredibly hyped when I can die and my team has secured a 3 man out due to my death.
I think once the community realizes to stop viewing stuff as crutches and focus on the training wheel aspect of Windows is when people will stop adhering themselves to what the other side wants them to be.
Similar when I see killer mains talk about the killer rulebook - you play how you want to play, I play how I want to play, etc and so on. Perks to me are not crutches, they are tools to be utilized. It's honestly why I do not view second chance perks the same way other survivor mains and killer mains view them.
Just because you don't use them doesn't mean you should view them as crutches and as I've said before, a killer is not entitled to a free tunnel. (second chance perks void that) nor does a killer get entitled to tell others that they're being handicapped and playing autopilot with Windows when these same killer mains cannot operate without aura reading. It's just a pot calling the kettle black, let people play what they want without judgment as it's not entirely detrimental to the team as a whole.
You're not here to impress me or others, in my opinion you shouldn't care how others view you using tools to get better and actively suppressing a training wheel (WOO) because others look down on it, view it as a crutch, view someone as a noob - no one asked for their opinions and you do not play for the person who enjoys said perks. But again, I just wish people would just look at the system, make their own conclusion, and stop worrying about how their builds or playstyle is viewed by others - it oftentimes feels like the DBD community is just a hivemind of needing to know something works, this build works, this style works - no, find your own style and own it.
Edit: also, I guess this is why I don't really come on here to talk about builds because it feels like I'm talking a foreign language to people who are still stuck in the meta-slave mindset.
So, when you say something like "Props to you for being surprising, I suppose." seems a bit unwarranted in a way. If you think about it logically - if I don't get a pallet stun, I use Lithe. If I get a pallet stun, I get Smash Hit (Smash Hit allows me to get exhaustion back quicker). But again, I do not expect nuance or macro thinking when it comes to the forums, quite simply. I don't expect people to do deep dives into perks, what works, etc - it's why I do not do it because to be honest, everything as subjective. People think they need DH, Windows, Adrenaline, Resilience, Finesse to be a good survivor yet I see people with those same builds struggle. Same thing for killer, yet the community still adopts this ancient idea that if my friends, the community, the content creators say x perk is bad, it is indeed bad. Truly mindboggling.
People always need validation for their builds, people need permission to play a certain way, people need to feel as it's they're handheld like children to validate their worldview, which I honestly believe needs to be disregarded. People in this community need to start thinking on their own and stop parroting things they hear - it's honestly embarrassing for a community based on numbers, results, and everything else and that be given to the killer role and not the survivor role. - even when those same killer roles dismiss, disregard, and invalidate their "peers".
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064561#Comment_4064561
Not true lol I was a frequent Fast Track user. I haven't tried this new version yet though. I liked just dropping a huge chunk of gen progress with the old version though, it was really satisfying.
Yeah, people downvoting you for sharing your experience is actually insane to me.
I'm glad you were a fellow Fast Track user.
I honestly only used the build once since the update. I have primarily been playing with the character with Botany Knowledge + Flow State. So, I haven't really seen it much in action nor have I have really wanted to play the build as I prefer Flow State. I genuinely believe it's a great perk and it fits my macro mentality regarding survivor perfectly. 😊 Let me know what you think if and when you actually use it.
Also, edit: I like to use it with Stake Out for pure efficiency reasons. I've seen people genuinely in the old version get 20+ stacks and never use them due to either skill checks not occurring or not hitting greats.
Before someone tells me that I should be hitting greats and not using Stake Out, which is designed to hit greats - you do not play the same game I do, that's fine if you prefer different perks but I play how I play, you play how I play - respect is given. I did not mind hitting greats because any progress to me is macro progress in the game. I do not care to withhold my stacks, I let the stacks go, and I get the gens done regardless.
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@random1543 said:
I used fast track a lot in PTB and its on par with other gen perks that are already in the game.
The only time I've seen insane plays with fast track are clips where killer is friendly for the clip, two people have full stacks and they pop it on one gen.Yeah, I just used Fast Track with Stake Out and it does eat gens.
If anything I'd reduce the amount if you're going to have it be permanently applied to the gen. Other than that, the perk needed something for other survivors to opt to choose them.
People complain about people continually choosing meta, you aren't going to get a great skill check unless you make a build around it. It's on par with Hyperfocus, if anything I'd make it so the two perks cannot interact with each other but I doubt it would become meta for survivor - I do not see that being a thing.
Edit: I will add this is a catch-up perk if anything, similar to NOED. The reason I used it in the past was simply to eat at the gen, the only difference is permanence.
I can also see people arguing that perks should be able to be used together and Hyperfocus, Stake Out, Bardic Inspiration (whatever third perk you want in this slot), and Prove Thyself. - to me, this is a sitting duck build and easily a tunneled out survivor, definitely not going to be used in high MMR - people like their DH, Adrenaline, Windows, and other meta perks way too much to switch to this niche build and even I argue that I would not do this.
You die with Fast Track and the first out survivor, you get no value BTW. I just would not use this build, as I know it's not efficient at all even if in numbers it "sounds" like it.