CautionaryMary
CautionaryMary
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@grumpelfox said:
I dont see the reason why maps were completely destroyed . as someone who enjoyed doing scratch mirror myers .. the map changes are disastrous. if your not gonna give maps a point why do they exist . either revert the changes or remove maps entirely .
I do not like the fact that one side can fundamentally change the game by bringing map offerings.
The best thing Behavior could have done was to make the map offerings an inverse. If a killer burns a map offering to prevent Badham or Garden of Joy, cool. If a survivor burns a map offering to prevent Haddonfield or Midwich, cool. They instead did the lowest possible demand, making it a fixed 20% chance to get a map offering.
It's another case of Behavior not listening to the community time and time again. You as a killer or survivor should not fundamentally override RNG to choose which map you want to play on and have an inherent advantage, in my personal opinion.
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@cogsturning said:
I've been camped into second/death quite a bit since they implemented the new system. I'm not sure what benefit there was to changing it, unless it was meant to benefit the killer.
That being said, I think a lot people don't realize that if your teammates are nearby, the meter doesn't fill. I wish that was somehow made clearer.
I don't know how clearer it needs to be, sure it doesn't say it in game but at that point the onus is on the person for not looking it up or reading the patch notes.
At that point, it's choosing to not look into the mechanics. But yes, the anti-camp meter was reduced but the gain amount is given exponentially. Like, @Aven_Fallen mentioned it is an anti-face camp measure. I was hooked in basement against a Huntress the other day and I was able to get my anti-camp meter up and could kobe off before reaching second (I did this to waste her time as she was above me on the platform and preventing unhooking). Regardless, my team was pumping out gens and a three man out regardless in solo-queue.
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That's a Behavior issue, I've said a year+ ago that the locking of tiers behind levels is pointless and outdated and should be removed for new players to actually make a full build, rather than relying on the game's leveling system to allow a slow relinquishing of four perks to be used.
There is no reason why a new player in Dead By Daylight should be drip fed - you get one perk here, oh you leveled up to the next bracket.... Now, you can have two perks, three perks, four perks.
That's a Behavior issue, not a blood point issue. No point in the level locks and new players should automatically be able to equip four perks and a complete rework on what MMR should represent and point allocation.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
I agree simply out of frustration for the current state of it. At one time, I would have argued otherwise, but over the years it's lost so much that it's become boring, outdated, and a shell of itself after suffering a death by a thousand cuts. It needs a deep rework. Make the bloodweb great again.
Nah, I don't understand why an implementation of the blood web would be removed.
People probably go and do the tier system but I actually do go through my bloodweb and collect what I want, lol. - I typically prioritize medkits, toolboxes, blood point offerings, keys, and everything else. I will obviously almost always ignore the toolbox instructions, which I've said before outright needs to be removed - it serves no purpose other than for newer players struggling with skill checks and offers nothing for veteran players such as I. The same can be said for killer mains, if they do go through the bloodweb to pick what they want add-on wise for their powers.
I don't even know what they would replace said bloodweb with, we just get a random assortment of stuff or just a fixed amount? I usually let my bloodpoints accumulate and then release them on my lowest prestige survivor or leveling up my survivors equally, but again - it's whatever. I don't know why someone would choose to remove something that allows you to have choice on what you spend your bloodpoints on.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036328#Comment_4036328
simple question . i am forced by the games code to be limited in how many times im able to do what is especially part of my objective ie protecting gens. should survivors be equally limited in their ability to to their objective . go play killer at a high level i promise you, your holier then thou attitude will change immediately
Haha, is an exhaustion perk an objective? Are you really struggling with exhaustion perks? I never understood people who complain about perks, but opt to not use perks to mitigate the things that they're complaining about.
Oh, I forget this is Dead By Daylight where people want to use their perks and don't want to get off their perks to use different perks and adapt their playstyle.
You have exhaustion related perks, add-ons, and mobility killers that can make exhaustion redundant - yet, again you are using a false equivalence and still using it after being pointed out on it.
I just said I don't care to play killer as I get bored of it, why don't you go play survivor as you are obviously burnt out over gen kick limitations and using a logical fallacy?
Oh yes, classic deflection - I will ask once more, do you want gen tapping back into the game - yes or no?
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036332#Comment_4036332
Why would I assume a killer is running a specific add-on and simply just drop one single pallet to test if such and such killer is using a specific add-on
… I don’t see any point in out discussion, it’s like you talking on your own. I literally said that you don’t drop palllets at all against Legion until he cancels his power. I didn’t said “well, test him”. What are you talking about? I didn’t encourage grouping from the start, nothing. I said if you already were in group and killer got some stacks, prevent insta down of 4th player by bodyblocking. I literally myself said Dying Light is weak, why I need to hear it again?
I don’t really care that you constantly deal with S tiers because it wasn’t a point of our discussion. I also don’t encounter Legion that much.
if I am seeing a repeated pattern over and over again - I will simply take in that knowledge, compound upon it, and utilize it - that is what helps people in skill expression as a survivor
so skill expression - is average killer repeatedly doing mistakes or patterning mediocre play… wow… I thought actual skill expression is understanding actual potential of killer. Now I’m not surprised why my game on Executioner sometimes so simple, because survivors auto assuming I’m playing him as average player and not maining, while my builds and style extremely discouraging them …
Because I mained Executioner, I started to assume the best play possible on this killer every time I encounter him as surv. It made me so good against dodging them, that I can significantly waste time of typical player or run without single injury against person who are new with him. I thought it was my personal skill expression I enjoyed…
Alright, brother/sister whatever floats your boat.
You're arguing idealistic language, I'm arguing more macro - the discussion isn't going anywhere. I'm talking on my own due to my own experience playing survivor and what I see amongst my own gameplay... That is how we formulate opinions? Lmfao.
I don't care if you view Dying Light as a weak perk, your opinion is not an objective fact over what I see in my own games of playing survivor. Why use a Hex perk on Legion? What Hex perk is good on Legion? Let's hear it, go ahead.
Also, is that not the same for the killer side? You do recognize both sides win their games over numerous mistakes on each side. You are aware that killer players are not robotic, similar to survivors. Probzzz, Ayrun, JRM, Cru5h, Hens, Otzdarva, Scott Jund, MomoSeventh, Bleak, etc - all can make variable mistakes, I have no idea why you are arguing that I should not capitalize on my opponent's own mistakes, similar to me also making mistakes that killers capitalize on as well - Good grief.
I will edit this because I can see you making this argument, I have played against Momo three times and Bleak once (even beating Bleak on Dracula - before you make any assumptions of skill this and why are you bringing up comp/content creators bogus mentality). I just genuinely am flabbergasted that you think people just genuinely do not make mistakes and I should just utilize game knowledge, lol - I need to take a break from discussing this with you, it's mind-boggling.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036320#Comment_4036320
I hardly if ever see a Legion utilize Iri-Button and typically see Thanatophobia and Dying Light synergies more than I see an Iri-Button Legion. I
Personal Experience and players I met when played myself. More likely it was full gen slowdown, or hex + mix tape + iri
Or pallet swap with iri and standard enduring and spirit fury. Lust one isn’t a big deal.
And why not assuming? How it’s gonna spoil your game or help killer? Moreover, you even saved some resource. Than why I should care and go from lowest to highest during my assumption. Dying Light with Thanatophobia is a weak choice when you are gonna assume u will always play on small to mid size map, and survivors won’t spread around depriving you from killer instinct. Dying Light is so weak :/ Scourge and DMS provide more value on him than two of this together. At least it was considered like this among players I’m usually facing with.Not all Artists players have wall hacks and can easily hit you through walls, not all Doctors have pristine zaps to prevent you from vaulting a pallet
So again. Your arguments fully build up around killer player being actually worse than you or not having the most efficient builds… then I’m not surprised some stuff in solo like team play against Legion in solo Q seems so hard.
My whole assumption was going how you dodge killer that understand details. How they can zone, capitalise macro and resources, using best builds possible. You don’t need wh on Artist if you are in filler or construction having only two directions to go. Your assumption literally goes from Doc player running around loop like a bot. For me it’s a huge problemacy here, that leads to a position again, that majority of players struggling against iri button because can’t even assume from the start.
As soon as you start assume the worst against opponent, as soon you’ll learn actual counterplay. Player commiting to mistakes allowing me do my own mistakes without harsh punishment isn’t my choice. I don’t like to play like this. I am myself bringing effective load outs both on killer and surv so already got used to dodge first painres without knowing about this or thinking that x killer will have y build more likely. And usually I manage to guess it
Yes, I do not see hex builds on Legion at all. If anything, what I just described is the core perk builds that I see or the odd stealth Legion (when map offerings actually meant something). I do not see Legion in my solo-queue games regardless - most I see is Blight, Kaneki, Wesker, etc. I barely if ever see Legion because Legion typically suffers for the aforementioned reasons I listed in the above, most skilled survivors know how to punish a Legion by simply not staying together or having one person healed to offset the Thana/Dying Light slowdown.
Why would I assume a killer is running a specific add-on and simply just drop one single pallet to test if such and such killer is using a specific add-on. Same thing for Pyramid Head and his breaking pallets with his power, why would I just assume, "Okay, Pyramid Head is very good with the pallet breaking add-on, so let's just hold W." - you do realize even if I came in with that logic, which is flawed by the way - the Pyramid Head still would not be able to hit me if I move out of the way of the power. Same thing for a Legion, cool - Legion vaulted over a pallet and destroyed it, I now have that knowledge to know that Legion has Iri-Button and to do the previous stuff I just mentioned that I could do to prolong the game during my own chase.
Your line of reasoning was that the survivor must play worst - you argued that an Artist is good with precision, Doctor is good with his zapping - so, yes - when I face against a killer, I'm not actively thinking to myself - I have better skill expression than such and such killer, however, if I am seeing a repeated pattern over and over again - I will simply take in that knowledge, compound upon it, and utilize it - that is what helps people in skill expression as a survivor. All of the killers all have different counterplay and direct weaknesses from one another, it's not like I'm loading into a game and do the same logic per killer to other killers, lol.
Sure, there is some similarities but all of the killers in the game all have different counterplay even with varying weaknesses between each other. Some survivors complain about Krasue, I enjoy Krasue. Some survivors complain about Nurse, I enjoy Nurse. I would not play against a Krasue similar to how I would play against a Nurse.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035824#Comment_4035824
should there be a gen touch limit . or a exhaustion perk limit ? have you ever wondered why all you see are the same perks or the same s tier killers .. its survivor entitlement and gen speeds. you stated yourself that you dont play killer alot . if you use eruption that 8 limit that you say is so high becomes 4 . i never had a problem with gen tapping . i started in 2017 .. if we brought back that for no kick limit so be it .
Are we seriously comparing gen kick limits to exhaustion perk limits?
Yes, I know why there are S tier killers that I see in the games that I play - you are arguing with the wrong person, I love facing Nurse - so, I do not care to see back to back Nurse gameplay as she is my favorite S tier killer to face, still not an argument. You can play with whatever killer you wanna play, whatever perk combinations you want to play, I do not care because I can simply adapt to whatever I am facing in a trial.
Just because I don't play killer as much (the reason being that I typically am bored when I play it) again, is not an argument. You are doing a false equivalence argument (logical fallacy) to incorporate your flawed logic.
Simple question, do you want gen tapping back or not?
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036251#Comment_4036251
This game is always about decision making. Assuming stuff or not. And if u always assume iri button… actually, nothing harms you. If he doesn't have it you just allowed to drop more. But if you assume this add-on from the start it's not a big deal.
TBH I’m not talking about babysitting to prevent Legion for stacking. But that's a clear thing that against this killer you need shift w a lot and deny his power. You don’t need to chase him to deny stack, but if your team made a mistake ending up 4 together within small range and you have info about teammate who under threat, the smartest play is do altruism here. You’ll win more time rather than waste.
I think it's worthy just point that some counterplay isn’t a big deal. Many people love to find an excuse of bad play just because they are solo q. Sorry not sorry, I don't take it seriously. U either playing good in match understanding game, or not and every stuff seems hard. Sure this argument doesn't fit to players below 500 hours, but I have slightly more and expecting teammates with 1k- 3k hours understand some stuff, especially if they play surv only. Otherwise it's simply a waste of time in such game where you barely progressed. If majority of Legions you encountered using sleeping pills or iri button, why not assuming you have to play against them from the start? You will lose nothing doing this.
A skilled Artist player will typically set up birds and force you to leave the pallet area, more often than not they will not break the pallet and you play around via mind game with birds.
Lol. The point of looping around and I have seen many, many Doctors time their shocks around the pallet and again, the survivor is generally wasting the Doctor's time
About Artist… Are u sure? Good Artist do right shots through M2 and actually using their birds. They won’t let you leave zone where you can be closed, this is ridiculous waste of time. It's irrational to force leaving loop on killer with power that go through any pallet. It's as bs as people who claim M2 to M1 fake on Executioner it the best and strongest play. Are we discussing actual skill or play around people being mid? If you as survivor got hit through fast M1 against such killers… it's your mistake first of all. Or you try to waste time when already was zoned out, depends on situation.
The best way of wasting time is connect loop with other objects instead of mindlessly running around circle waiting of inevitable. I’ll prefer to make few more rounds around some garbage before dropping pallet against Doc rather than using one thing and assuming player doesn’t know timings or not using electrodes :) Your choice wasting 20 seconds around one tile or 30 with constant connecting and pushing him farther from your start point, with probability of not wasting a single resource. While staying in one loop you wasting sources, and every adequate Doctor will zone u here.
P.S. Some doctors spam power to push person to max tier of madness to distract from gen, or preventing self heal after unhook, sabo or whatever. Some add-ons specifically encourage spam of shocks. If you constantly getting dropped after few shocks, especially when someone on hook nearby, killer wasting your time and force you to drop pallets that become much more mindgamable after being dropped. Dropped pallets is much worse against him rather than untouched. Especially now where many fillers are garbage.
Why would you assume a killer like Legion always must have Iri-Button, unless the proposed change is that Legion has Iri-Button basekit? I hardly if ever see a Legion utilize Iri-Button and typically see Thanatophobia and Dying Light synergies more than I see an Iri-Button Legion. It's not good to just "assume" a killer is running an add-on and simply opting to ignore pallet resources on the off-chance of simply verifying the Iri-Button is actually in play is not sound advice for anyone.
The correct gameplan against any Legion in high MMR is simply to separate and do gens, that is why Legion in high MMR struggles against people in high MMR (whether solo-queue or SWF). It is objectively a bad idea to group up with people and prevent Legion's down, even then let's say the fourth person is down via the power - you have two or three other survivors ideally on gens during this downtime for the first down, especially if the Legion is stacking gen regression, which they often do.
Yes, why would an Artist attempt to break a pallet allowing the survivor to reach another tile? A skilled Artist typically knows to zone down a survivor and they place multiple birds down, especially in jungle gym situations. The pallet, like I mentioned is a buffer zone. The Artist will place a bird at the downed pallet, the survivor on the other side of that pallet then has to gauge with themselves that they cannot continue to loop at the pallet without being hit with birds - they can take the window, move to another tile (again, as I mentioned Artist is slowed down during this process), or simply break line of sight as Artist suffers from line of sight breaking as she has to hit you with said crows, lol.
It's so fascinating to me when people debate on the forums and objectively think that the way they play and exhibit condescending behavior makes the user more holier than thou - do whatever you want to do with Doctor, but implying it's a bug or me pointing out killer mistakes that I see time and time again when versing specific killers and invalidating another user's experience because you have no argument otherwise for direct counterplay tied to specific killers.
It's not good to group up against any Legion, I do not care that the fourth person is going to go down via the power (it's the first hook of the game and clustering is bad for a killer like Legion as they can easily capitalize on the survivor team grouping up.)
Not all Artists players have wall hacks and can easily hit you through walls, not all Doctors have pristine zaps to prevent you from vaulting a pallet. Even in situations where a Doctor can hold you at a pallet that you round and round around we go on, they will opt to zap versus kick the pallet to zone you. Doctor is legitimately wasting time in this situation or in a longer form where the survivor can wrap around a longer obstacle to hold the Doctor there for seconds to minutes, it's all macro at the end of the day.
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@Shuyo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036183#Comment_4036183
I agree with about everything you say.
The problem I see is not the words, I ignore those. It's just frustrating when people get so pissed that they try to sell you (or a teammate).
They don't think "that person goes in a locker, that doesn't make sense. Unless... wait, they are the obsession. Could be FttE."
They just think "typical soloq random, rat behaviour, I'm so pissed, mmr put a newbe in my lobby, I'll make sure the killer finds them..."
Yeah. It's mainly a people problem. But just like Rancor, FttE has a risk to bring up situations like this somewhat frequently.
If it would show up for a couple seconds on the right side of the screen only when the very first hook happens, that might help. Like bloodfavor shows up when first triggered. And if that really is such a big nerf for the perk (idk I don't play killers that use this perk well) it could get a slight buff to the exposed time or so.
One specific scenario that felt bad (not bc someone raged):
Killer tunneled the first hooked person, they managed to get away and lose the killer but were on deathhook, the Obsession took aggro and got hooked.
And the deathhook guy became the new obsession. It was sad. They did super well, we others did well and he died anyway bc he had no way of knowing and the obsession had no way of telling.
It feels bad when a game doesn't allow you (/denies you the info you need) to make good decisions. Especially when other perks and people on comms just bypass the problem in 3 seconds.
It might be worth a tweak. And just a tweak, bhvr, pls don't cut down the whole perk.
I see, the only thing I would say specifically is Blood Favor is told simply for the fact that it's shown to all survivors - entity blocking the pallets, which I can see your point on.
In the case of the tunneled guy with FTTE is odd, I can sympathize with the lack of information and the scream that sold out the only hooked person - but that's such a situational aspect to the perk.
Even with FTTE, it only affects the obsession (needing to hide - which I only would opt for if nearby the killer or needing to prevent being out early if death hook).
I guess I just don't see this behavior in my own games myself, as I typically try my best when playing in my own games and reasonably speaking, my solo-queue does the same. I hardly if ever DC unless I'm tilted, even then that's quite rare for me to do or I'm going against a cheater and cannot be bothered, opting to DC and go into another game.
If someone at end game is messaging you that you are doing rat behavior for a perk in the game, their opinion is irrelevant, and I will calmly address it - if the player continues saying I was playing in a regressive manner, I hit them with the thumbs up, and move on - it might be because I play on Playstation, so I don't see these comments myself via PC - regardless, the opinion is redundant and I move on to another game otherwise. It's hard to implement a change where FTTE is shown to everyone, as FTTE is typically strong when it's an element of a surprise perk. In that situation, the killer opted to tunnel and even without FTTE, the killer would have still done what they did regardless of FTTE being used or not.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036206#Comment_4036206
I just hate the idea of a person who is actively alert catching a huntress hatchet to the face because they're just not allowed to see what's happening. If they want to give the killers a chance to get away from the hook without auras giving away a direction, there's better ways to do that than to blind all survivors of the part of the map they should be paying attention to.
This is true for all cases where vision is getting obscured. What's the reasoning with covering up the exit gate switches for killers for so long after they're powered?
Yeah, this is why if I use Kindred I'm typically doing a duo build with it (Kindred/Open Handed or Kindred/Reassurance) - I typically use an exhaustion perk and an information perk (Deja Vu if I'm playing solo-queue).
I honestly love Kindred + Open-Handed but that's besides the point, the bubble is just an obsolete relic that Behavior should opt to remove. Even with the gen bubbles and nullifying aura reading with Bitter Murmur (I think?) should be removed.
I don't think we need bubbles anymore, but that's just me.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036213#Comment_4036213
I don’t play in sfw. I don’t trade pallets by default against Legion in power because good killer will avoid stun anyways, while him being in power without stacks being pretty harmless :₽ As much as I don’t drop against ghouls before first injury.
You can do stuff without comms. Use deduction if notice there are too many broken pallets, or simply playing by exclusion method and assume killer gonna bring best loadout possible. If you don’t hear mixed tape or he isn’t that fast (sleeping pills) there are more likely gonna be iri button. If you are the first one to encounter iri button - thats the point of strong add-on. Later you automatically change your playstyle.
He is not Twins or Singularity to ask for SFW counterplay. It’s the same mid killer, who just will burn your resources only if you give them.
Legion at a pallet, lol. I have done it many times where a Legion pulls up their power, I drop the pallet, and I go to vault back over and the Legion hits the pallet rendering his power useless.
I thought we discussed good killer player, not guy who smack hit button with obvious auto aim situation.
Also, you want to drop a pallet with Artist, I don't know where you get that you should greed a pallet with Artist
Same for Doctor, using a pallet against Doctor, again - gives you space and most Doctors spam their power quite inefficientlyI thought we discussed good players x2. You are being zoned if dropping fillers from wrong sides. If not from wrong but didn’t manage get stun, you just waste pallets. You drop only when sure she doesn’t have birds yet and this is safe tile for predrop to shift w. Only predrop for distance. Since when we dropping pallets against zoning killers within range lol, helping them with locking you.
“Many Doctors use power inefficiently”. I’m sorry, but you kinda contradicting yourself, in first post claiming about “if Legion good enough”, later describibg worst play for other killers. Good Doctor will zone you as well, and at that moment, dropped pallet not gonna help you, only if you exploit bug with frames after he used power. You supposed to use textures and garbage and connect it to actual loop because his shock slows him down.
There are true every killer (even Legion with iri) suffer from general predrop of tiles for distance. However it’s really important to realise when you playing like this as necessity, and when you helping killer later because you wasted too many resources. Your position, distance, and pathing matters more than your skill in loop, because as soon as killer learn about macro, patience and bloodlust, there are few options to do.
You cannot deduce a killer's loadout (specifically Iri-Button) without first sacrificing the first pallet in chase. A pallet, generally speaking guarantees safety due to the distance between you and the killer. Hell, I've looped a Ghoul on a pallet tile as well.
I wouldn't even say Iri-Button is the best add-on for Legion, I said it's among the best - however, to imply that people deduce it unless you're using a perk that shows pallets is near impossible for the average person in regular solo-queue, but again it's something that you become aware of when you're having the 1v1 with the Legion and yes, this is when you adapt your playstyle once the add-on becomes apparent.
Yes, your argument was that you, as a solo-queue person should chase among Legion to prevent the fourth down via power. I'm simply saying this is a waste of time, generally speaking it's best to take the hit if you get hit with the power, and do a gen. Not just play babysitter following the Legion to prevent the first down, but again, I focus on gens - I do not partake in all of that especially early game where gens typically are the priority. SWF is usually ideal in this situation, a solo-queue person should not waste time unless they are the third hit by default, even then the last survivor should not be babysat to prevent the fourth hit - there's counterplay for the fourth survivor usually to prevent it via what I mentioned in the previous comment.
When you are looping with Artist in a tile, you can create space amongst yourself to create a mind game with the Artist. A skilled Artist player will typically set up birds and force you to leave the pallet area, more often than not they will not break the pallet and you play around via mind game with birds. The pallet is simply space between the Artist and you and creating a zone where you can freely loop around without being M1ed, I don't know why you're implying that you must greed unless you are looping in an area where the Artist can see you (no walls), otherwise I still disagree - Artist loses distance and can easily zone you otherwise with the birds or hit you, hence the free buffer zone - it's not a waste of a pallet when the killer can ignore it and zone you, it's creating mind game potential to waste the Artist's time.
How is greeding around a pallet as Doctor inefficiently zaps you with his power a bug? Lol. The point of looping around and I have seen many, many Doctors time their shocks around the pallet and again, the survivor is generally wasting the Doctor's time. Dead By Daylight is a time based game, anything that you are doing as a survivor is generally buying time for anything that your team is doing on the map (whether it's gens or healing) - predropping against a Doctor who refuses to kick the pallet, you're going around and around as Doctor keeps zapping you is buying your team time regardless. A good Doctor knows that they can easily break a pallet that they keep doing ring around the rosey on, but I have seen Doctors become stubborn trying to continually shock when they can easily just break a pallet. You break the pallet, especially on the pallet side where you can zone them - and you will have an easier time. However, again this is all due to some Doctor players who specifically keep zapping and wasting time and some Doctor players still do this.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036194#Comment_4036194
… Why even give him pallet during his power?
He will hit you anyways. Good Legion use iri button for fast trade of resources. Simply don’t give it. I noticed that many survivors giving Legion free pallets trying to stun him during his power (that usually just leads to +1 stack, sure)
I don't know about “good Legion”, but on my memory I had a game with Legion, iri button on Ormond. I was scared first because on first half he demolished my teammates, but when it was my turn… I simply didn't give him any pallets beside one when he was forced cancelling his power. The hardest thing is just not letting him bodyblock you. He dropped me like… 3 times and I escaped through hatch later. Other game where I lost against this killer was on Legion without this add-on, that was a Game. Simply, two times in a row my teammates gave him stacks, on third time, rat Yun Jin without zero hooks thought it’s nice idea to bring killer to the room with last gen instead of taking down. So, he skipped her and take me, but it was 3 escapes at least.
The only unfair thing on this killer is when your teammates failed so hard they gave him 3 stacks of power and not trying to bodyblock to save you. This is frustrating Insta down. Otherwise even with iri button he is pretty mindgameble killer. Some survivors just scary of the fact you stay injured whole game or can stay without resources. Treat him like a killer you shouldn't drop pallet for without specific reason. There are plenty of them, like Doctor, Artist, Trickster, Houndmaster, Ghoul…
Yes, if you're playing in SWF and someone calls out Iridescent Button... Sure.
If you're playing Solo-Queue, you find out he has Iridescent Button by simply versing Legion when the pallet breaks.
I still do not agree that it needs to be embedded into his kit, but to imply that survivors willingly give it to them - especially if in solo-queue is not an argument. There's nothing much you can do if Legion has Iri-Button: Either greed around pallets, FOV tech spins, micromovements, or utilize windows (if Legion doesn't carry Bamboozle) - regardless, most of the time they'll Iri Button a pallet, cancel their power and hit you or walk you down and down you as it's generally not good to heal against Legion unless death hook arguably.
Iri-Button is one of Legion's strongest add-ons in the right hands with the right perks, even if most utilize slowdown Legion.
Again, the last bit is good in SWF as you can coordinate hits via comms - expecting a solo-queue person to chase down Legion to prevent the hit is not optimal and Legion can be outplayed without people following to prevent the power hit too.
An additional point, me chasing down the Legion to prevent the insta-down when I would rather focus on gens besides clustering up to prevent the little snowball hits is another side note. I'd rather get the gens done, rather than follow Legion to prevent the down too and not be clustered up like headless chickens running around with Legion.
Edit: no, you can outplay a Legion at a pallet, lol. I have done it many times where a Legion pulls up their power, I drop the pallet, and I go to vault back over and the Legion hits the pallet rendering his power useless. The same can be done at a window, again - I've done it many times. Just because you're at a pallet does not guarantee a Legion to hit you, unless... It's a horrible 50/50, the survivor misplayed around said pallet, or just like I said Iri-Button.
Also, you want to drop a pallet with Artist, I don't know where you get that you should greed a pallet with Artist when she can set up birds and pallets give you leeway to have space between the Artist (force her to set up birds) and decide if you want to stay at the tile or move to a different tile as she loses distance when she sets birds up - you don't want to be zoned out.
Same for Doctor, using a pallet against Doctor, again - gives you space and most Doctors spam their power quite inefficiently and refuse to break the pallet at times due to being stubborn. You have a point kinda with Houndmaster, as you can smack the dog with the pallet if she uses the dog to try to drag you but I disagree with the other two.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035820#Comment_4035820
I feel like if BHVR didnt like Kindred telling survivors where a killer is heading immediately after a hook, they should just tweek the perk itself rather than effectively blind the player of everything in that direction. Not being able to see what's going on in a situation you'd normally have LOS feels awful.
Yeah, I just remember them (if I can recall as it was years ago) that the bubble was there to obscure the killer and keep the element of the surprise.
Even then, it does more harm than good. If someone brings Kindred (an aura perk) - they should get value and not have the blurb obscure the killer and oftentimes the blurb will just hide the killer as a whole, especially if they have mobility to get out of the bubble.
It serves no purpose and just an outdated mechanic that Behavior refuses to get rid of, it would make the game look cleaner, in my opinion.
The game is due for a lot QOL, just Behavior is slow at just implementing proper QOL.
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@Anti051 said:
Getting 3-gen'd is basically getting screwed at the macro level for the survivors, right?
Getting gen-split (2 gens on one side of the map, 1 on the opposite side) is basically getting screwed at the macro level for killers, right?
Does it seem like a bit of a double standard to anybody else that one of these things gets a special aid system and the other gets nothing?
"My favorite part about hockey is how the goalie gets benched for the rest of the match after blocking 8 shots on the goal." - Patrick Harris, Probably
You do realize maps can have four/five gens clustered on a single map, I've seen it multiple times while using Deja Vu.
If you as a killer are struggling to hold a proper three-gen and not notice it early on to defend, while having proper perks to defend said three-gen - you cannot functionally argue the counterargument for survivor.
If you want gen kick limits removed, we can implement gen tapping back as well - but again, you don't want to have this conversation. When are we getting the changes where Behavior implied a survivor letting go would get rid of the skill check that occurs randomly? Right.
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@tes said:
We are in 2025 and majority of players barely can dodge iri button.
You can make him stronger, or weaker - doesn’t matter. People hating him on his weakest state possible alreadyWhat is the dodge for Iri button for Legion? He uses his power, vaults over the pallet, breaks it - sometimes they'll cancel power to zone you or hit you over the pallet, so what dodge would you have other than spinning the Legion (skilled players can deal with FOV tech or spinning) or doing micromovements.
Even then, a counter to Legion vaulting is by vaulting back over the pallet, similar to Wesker or Vecna while in flight. The addition to Iridescent Button would make Dissolution unnecessary and practically basekit for Legion, if you want to have pallets be destroyed use the add-on or Dissolution. Legion is fine with chase, especially a good Legion who understands they can cancel the power and down a person and not constantly tagging people consistently.
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@Xray said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036185#Comment_4036185
True. It is a shame that progress is often held back by coding issues.
Yeah, usually (if I'm playing SWF) - I typically just spectate like I'm watching a game of DBD.
I can understand a more casual player who simply just wants to mess around flying a crow or whatever it is that could be implemented. Obviously some people, especially in a SWF just play in a very goofy way and don't take the game seriously, I think it would be a fun aspect for people to drink with their friends and flying around each other at a certain part of the map. It's a good idea, definitely would be janky if Behavior tried to do it, haha.
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@bazarama said:
Not all tunnelling is the killer deliberately hunting same survivor.
I got someone out within 4 hooks because they kept running in front of me.
Even though I do not mind tunneling or being tunneled myself, I have seen killers objectively go back to the hook to tunnel someone out.
It's not as uncommon as you think it is and the injured person is already susceptible, even if the unhooker takes a hit.
Again, I do not mind it at all and I can deal with tunneling - I popped three gens yesterday (by myself) against a tunneling Blight on Yamoaka yesterday in solo-queue, but if a killer is going to tunnel, a killer will tunnel.
I would also argue that survivors opting to throw themselves to prevent a death hook survivor from dying does more harm than good. The best location for someone being tunneled is on hook and staying there (while they're hopefully hitting skill checks) and others are doing gens to compensate for someone getting tunneled out. I have seen many Pain Resonance users opt to tunnel at 5 gens, while others opt to tunnel near the end when gens are being done. I see tunneling simply as being a part of the game, it's a correct stance that the easiest way to control the flow as a killer is to remove a survivor early and it's why second chance perks (even if killers hate them) are used at mid-high level to prevent an early person out to begin with.
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@Xray said:
let dead survivors take control of a crow and fly around the map.
Would easily break the game, I'm not gonna lie - I would not trust Behavior with their spaghetti code to implement something so interactive like flying a crow around the map, lol.
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@Shuyo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035835#Comment_4035835
I don't know how often I have to repeat myself again.
The ONLY problem I see with FttE and the ONLY reason I think this change would be good is:
You start the game as the obsession, you have to go in a locker once or twice to deny an early snowball and your teammates THROW because they are pissed about you "doing nothing but ratting".
That's it. That's my point.
They are upset and frustrated because they don't know. They have no way of knowing that me not being in a locker would bring the killer right to the reset spot / give the killer a quick down close to the hook / or something similar.
And yes, Blight and Nurse don't really do that much with FttE, that's probably why these killers don't use it.
But if you have a teleporting killer, you need to be very careful what info you give them. Kaneki, Freddy, Sadako, Dredge...
You are in a good spot to take chase? Great. No need to hide and wait it out.
I don't know, why people keep saying "once you're hooked, everyone knows". Yes, correct. That's not my point.
There are rare scenarios, where you are the only person who knows and you have to put that into consideration when making decisions. And then your teammates throw the game because they are upset.
That's not the killer's fault or anything. It's just frustrating.
Sorry, if this sounded rude or something, I just feel like some replies here tried to counter an argument I never made. If something I said doesn't make sense to you, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to explain thoughts more precise.
I have to ask, especially in a solo-queue game which I predominately play - why do you care what your teammates have to say? If the game ends and they opt to message you or say in end game chat (if you're on PC) questioning your decisions to be in a locker, which it's quite obvious FTTE is in play?
It all depends on the circumstances, which I pointed out in my original comment.
If you are willingly not taking aggro, I can understand the sentiment (even if I wouldn't message someone on how to play or what they're doing necessarily). I don't think FTTE needs to be shown to everyone in a lobby, even then - if you place an icon down, similar to a Dissolution - people will still play the exact same way they play - they will still question why you're doing what you're doing.
So, I really don't see a point of a universal FTTE shown in the corner or whatever proposal you could come up with. If the game ends, they ask why you did such and such, the game will tell them at the end game chat why you played in such a manner. I do not think adding it does anything and if it's again, a situation where your teammates are constantly in aggro and you are denying the aura reading every single time, I can understand the frustration.
People throwing games will go throw games, I don't see it a lot when I play in my own solo-queue games, but I've never been in a situation (and I've done what you have done) with FTTE. At that point, the survivors (which they probably do not do anyways) should look at the perks and be like, "Ah, @Shuyo hid in a locker to deny FTTE." but again, I don't throw games just because I see someone go into a locker.
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@Shuyo said:
When you are the obsession you'll get the "pop up" telling you that Friends till the end is in play the moment the first hook happens.
This pop up should be shown to every survivor in that moment.
Why? SoloQ vs swf.
Being the only person in soloq to know about that perk leads to so much ######### talk.
How do you counter Friends? You go in a locker.
What do your teammates see? A survivor with no hookstages that hides in a öocker every hook "for no reason".
You can't even tell the deathhook survivor to hide in a locker when you get hooked. So that they won't scream and become the new obsession.
And unlike other killer perks, there is no way to know friends is in play until you see it yourself (or you play with friends on comms).
It's so frustrating to have soloq teammates being mad at you or even sell you to the killer, bc you can't tell them that you protect the team by denying the killer information and a (potential) quick down.
Or you and two other survivors found each other for a quick reset? The moment the killer downs the 4th person, I need to go in a locker or I'll give a way the reset spot.
And let to so much ######### talk and so much griefing.
Just give everyone the notification that it is in play when the first hook happened.
Will it nerf the perk? Probably a bit. But you could always run into a swf on comms. And then it's the same.
Not to mention that these killer perk pop ups only appear for a couple seconds. There is a good chance that survivors will miss it. But that is on them.
I mean, let's be real here - if the obsession is hooked and you know FTTE is active then you know yourself that the killer is coming unless you're using something that is blocking the killer's aura reading (Distortion or a situational Boon: Shadowstep) or running Object of Obsession to see the killer coming due to the aura reading facet.
If the killer hooks the obsession, someone screams, most skilled players will know FTTE is active.
If you are consistently the obsession and you are choosing to get into a locker to prevent being exposed (you can counter this, yes by going into a locker or simply standing still and moving when the exposed status effect is halfway (without Vigil) or move one direction and go the opposite direction to throw the killer off from the aura reading) - but I digress! If you, as a survivor see that your team is dropping and dying like flies, you are by definition killing your own team.
That is on you, being a selfish player, by wanting to not be exposed and seeing the hook numbers and choosing to not engage with the killer.
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I will edit and say, this might be a bit blunt - but if you see Feng, Meg, and Dwight all on first and second hook and you have zero - you need to take chase, you need to distribute the hook tallies around.
Being a detriment by simply avoiding the perk as a whole as Meg, Dwight, or Feng dies will cause the game to be worse over time as gens get harder to do in a 1v3 scenario. The only time I would say someone should use a locker against FTTE is: 1. if you are near the killer and need to prevent being downed so early, as you have no distance. 2. Needing to go into a locker to prevent FTTE to apply to you on death hook, you don't become FTTE's new obsession in a locker, as the locker prevents the screams and obsession conversion. 3. It's still early game and your team is relatively fine, Feng got hooked once and you know now FTTE is in play. 4. FTTE is on you and you are currently on death hook to prevent an early out or another survivor dying due to the aura read + exposed status effect.
I don't know, I don't have issues with FTTE unless it's paired with let's say a high mobility killer that can hit you with a basic attack. Nurse and Blight cannot one tap you unless they're walking you down with the basic attack and are not great on them - Kaneki with FTTE can be problematic, sure - but that is a killer specific issue with the perk, not the perk itself.
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@BasicDamine said:
The standard time to finish a generator takes 90 seconds. This isn't completely bad (even though it should be 110 seconds, IMO) When 2 Survivors get on a generator at the same time (doubling gens) this gets decreased by an almighty 37 seconds! Mind you this is without perks that effect generator speeds such as Deja Vu, Prove Thy Self, or Friendly Competition. This is a huge problem and one of the main reasons Killers tend to Tunnel.
You really think gens should be 110 seconds? My lord.
If two people are on the same generator, unless it's the last gen is terrible.
Anyone piling on a generator without Prove Thyself, which was nerfed - mind you is playing suboptimally.
You can have the two people being interrupted on the generator, causing the two people to run away and disperse (the killer is coming) and in low MMR will typically have both run away and not return to the original gen. Even in a mid to high MMR match where let's say, two people are doing main - you chase one, the other waits for the area to be clear to hop back on - you now know where the generator is with progress.
We do not need to have 110 second gens or nerf a regressive tactic in general. It's best to have four gens on four separate gens - even when I play solo queue and I'm doing a gen, let's say the other random hops on my gen, I typically do the gen for a set amount 30%/50% and decide to get off because sitting there with the other survivor is a waste of time. Even then, I would argue that I would only hop on a gen if the gen is close to popping and the killer has Pain Resonance to push the gen out to prevent a PR.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035668#Comment_4035668
…Any particular reason you say that?
As a survivor main, I do not mind Lightborn.
I even have seen killers bring Lightborn with 0 flashlights to begin with.
Lightborn, to me, is not a problematic perk. Once you recognize the killer has Lightborn, simply do gens. Flashbang has already been nerfed - this is simply a hot take, but I personally find that I would prefer teammates on gens versus a person trailing another person to get a flashlight save when 9/10 times they will fail unless on top of the survivor for the save (a skilled killer typically checks the area before picking up, so they will more than likely get hit beforehand), a Background Player, or a 99% Sprint Burst user to get the save. Guess what happens after this? The downed player will more than likely go down once more if successful, sure it can waste the killer's time for seconds or minutes, but I'd rather have that person on a gen. Games are not in a vacuum, there could be two others on a gen - one person on a gen and the other messing around, or both survivors messing around.
But then again, I like to play quite efficiently and if a killer brings Lightborn to counter flashlights - be my guest, I just find flashlight plays suboptimal especially given that the person doing the play is either clip farming and not willing to take chase for the downed player (or even taking a hit!), causing the downed survivor to go down again (this isn't even including a potential Surge that will occur).
Sure, it messed with someone's playstyle but Lightborn is fine - a killer is choosing to bring it, one less gen regression or aura perk that they could have used, but opted to bring Lightborn.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035480#Comment_4035480
so youve never played killer . have you ever seen a gen so close to being done and just having to let them take it cause you the game says "oh no mister volunteer, mean killer . you cant do that , you have to make sure the survivors are having fun and just let them have it . " has that ever happened to you , cause it sure as hell has happened to me .
I've played killer before, not as much as my survivor hours obviously - if you are reaching the gen kick limit that astronomically, you are either piling on so much gen regression to reach that limit or you are going out of your way to repeatedly kick a gen (a waste of time, in my opinion) over and over again.
I used Onryo with Pop/Pain Res or Surge with /BBQ/Lethal Pursuer and I hardly if ever reach a noticeable gen kick limit, but I also incorporate chase mechanisms and know how to play Onryo to prevent hitting the necessary 8 to begin with.
The gen kick limit was introduced because of Knight, old Skull Merchant, and Doctor holding three gens and stalling games for an hour.
If you want to get rid of the gen kick limit, you would have to undo the gen tapping changes to mitigate three gen holding.
Some killers will opt to hold a three gen down, especially on Haddonfield where I've had multiple gens spawn in a corner or even a three gen in a straight line, we'd have to fundamentally change gen spawns (spread them out further too, but you would not want to have this conversation).
Instead of focusing on the gen kick limit, look inwards to understand why that issue is prevalent for your games but not for other killer mains, it's a small non-issue, in my opinion.
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@KerJuice said:
Yea, it’s an out-dated mechanic. Remove it on all 3 events (hook, gen, and exit gates).
Yes, I really do not understand the purpose of the bubble - the only thing that it gives me usage of is knowing how long a BBQ procs for, but I'd rather outright remove the bubble itself.
It hinders the ability of Kindred and I know the argument from Behavior is that it allows the killer to have some surprise on where they go, but a person doesn't have to use Open-Handed to compensate for how long the bubble duration is.
The game would look much cleaner without the bubble mechanisms in my opinion, even if I use it for information on a BBQ.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035504#Comment_4035504
For me now he is less boring before you had minimaly 75% chance that the mayers you go against has … tombstone (who would it guess he would have it right) and so you could get deleted whithout being hooked even once by him because some meg did chest and fed him power when he stalked her (which felt great, now he must hook you twice to get that mori), he could just proxy if survivors were atruistick and stalk the whoever came for trade save would get deleted by his addon (miried because he poped 99 evil withing 3 while having tombstone as addon) or he could even delete that poor survivor that just got unhook either by his teammate or just by himself with anticamp meter (which felt even better) so he could do something even facecmaping bubba cant even do (maybe if you are hooked in open area without even single window or pallet in 20 meter radius but thats not so common), for me as "old timer" in DBD it was just loop him like m1 killer, dont give him stalk for free and then jump into locker or on gen when he has tier 3 because everyone didnt want to get moried only because killer had just one addon (his tombstone was something with same logic as old syrange just pop it and boom downed survivor into full health sate very fun to go against indeed). Was it more horror?? kinda it was because he was only one that could just kill you without any reason (unlike sadako that has to spend time to condem you or any other killer getting mori for hooking you 2 times) so in short now atleast the chase is just more fun because you must think and make some actions then just run around wall and just hide when he stalks then drop or vault and repeat until he finds you in open or breaks everything and you are in open and if you dont have luxury like gen or locker near you then its tier 3 and gg for you.
I more think people hate it because its like removing old dead hard,ds,bpn, syrange or styptic its just removing old part from old og DBD which was fun and super chaotic but thats nothing many people want (unless you want powerless m1 killers that cant get you because of infinits and busted perk combos or items with addons or going against killers with same bs things or just 3 blinks nurse, 7 with addons).
I mean, from my experience the Tombstone Myers was much more prevalent than Scratch Mirror Myers, especially with the map offering update.
I truly do not mind the new Myers, sure - he can delete pallets and everything but that's the only strong aspect of his kit if he isn't Scratch Mirrors. He is still fundamentally loopable, I mean you have to drop pallets to prevent being downed with his power. The man is literally 7 ft tall, you can see him across the map and he can be avoidable to prevent stalk. I much, much prefer him to let's say a Ghostface simply for the fact that you can stare at a Ghostface and still be exposed.
I still prefer him as he's genuinely the only killer that keeps me on my toes and gives me the jumpscare moments that other killers do not. I can still win against him and get out of the trial against him, I don't think he's unfair at all and the changes where he can mori the last hook makes the game much more dynamic. If you truly want to waste his time, just jump a locker, allow him to place you down, and then mori - he's truly not as bad as many other killers, he's balanced to me from what I've played against - then again, he's much more oppressive if you're willingly just dropping resources or you're stuck in a three Gen scenario (which can be survivor induced if you don't break the three Gen early - which should always be a priority for survivors against any killer, mind you.)
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@indieeden7 said:
Just looking for opinions here, not trying to start any arguments, but does anyone actually like playing against new Myers?
He seems to be a combination of nothing but some of (in my opinion) the most irritating parts of many other killers' kits.
If anyone has any tips on going against him, they would be much appreciated.
I don't mind playing against the new Myers, but then again I can probably count on two hands that I've actually versed him and I typically like to have in-game experience against him, so I don't have as much game time against him.
I do think he traverses the map in a more fast way, it's nice to not have to jump into lockers and it prevents the old I'm going to hide in a locker to prevent the mori as he can now insta-mori survivors on death hook.
I don't mind him, he's obviously stronger than what he is but I might be a little biased as I always liked versing Myers in general, I still enjoy facing him regardless but that's just me.
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@IrisLP said:
I can't believe what they did to syringes and styptics. They're one of the few useful tools for solo queue, especially for tunneling. They're killing solo. Well, I'll stop using the medkit and use brand new part every match. I wasn't using it because rushing is so strong, and I understand the killers' complaints, but tunneling is awful, and solo is running out of tools, so I'll have to use it. If they want to nerf it later, I don't care, as long as I'm going to use the thousand+ I've accumulated with different survivors and rush perks. If my games start lasting 4 or 5 minutes, so it be.
What I am absolutely sure of is that swf are going to abuse syringes and the killers are going to cry again, so how do devs plan to nerf them then? By removing them from the game? lolYeah, I can see them nerfing toolboxes.
I really liked the syringe, given that I'd use it on others if they're on death hook while being tunneled.
It is nice I guess to be able to use exhaustion twice, but it's only when you're injured and you will eventually go down regardless unless it's end game and you hold onto it but even that's still situational and a far cry to what it was.
It's a shame about the Styptic - I haven't used it personally but if they're going to nerf Styptic - they could have at least allowed it to heal you twice with the medkit.
The old Syringe, you could toss a bandage with it on a brown medkit and get two heals. Nowadays, you cannot get two heals consistently unless you're using skill check operated medkits and I'm not going to build a whole build or have the skill checks to come up to fully heal myself due to how RNG the skill checks are to begin with to appear.
Just a shame what they did to medkits and at this point, I just use the medkit on my last hook if I'm using a brown medkit.
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@Venusa said:
So… that’s it? We’re just sweeping this rift under the rug and pretending it never existed? No explanation, no plans to improve it. Just a “see you on the next rift!” post like that somehow makes it okay.
A lot of the rift is copy-paste, generic content.
There's not much to say other than this rift is not their cup of tea.
Do you want them to post a review detailing each level of the rift for it to have more leverage for their initial post?
They provided pictures of how lazy the reskins were with Yun-Jin being provided.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015178#Comment_4015178
its a event that happens every year not some distraction so please dont get mad at the devs doing something correct which takes effort and time
I'm surprised they never fixed the whole thing that the event deletes your presets, I don't know if that was a thing during the anniversary event (I didn't play during that event).
But they need to fix the game, lol.
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I don't know why people were opting to think that Behavior would do a Rainbow Six Siege Operation Health, this is BHVR we're talking about here.
Edit: spelling errors
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3935203#Comment_3935203
None of the things you mentioned are healthy or skillful parts of him. Map control could be fine but it's not a defining feature whatsoever when plenty killers have mobility, lockdown potential? I sincerely don't know what you could be referring to other than 3 genning, and his "vision-based pressure" is such a joke of game design as it purely gets value from Survivor's lack of information which is completely skill-less.
If you actually do the math with the distance gained from blinking across the map it is equivalent to something around a 4.4 killer, maybe even slower, I don't remember exactly but it's definitely worse than just walking as a 4.6, thinking otherwise is ACTUALLY objectively incorrect.
You’re severely downplaying the mechanics that make Dredge effective. Saying his kit lacks skillful elements ignores the pressure and unpredictability that his abilities create.
Map control isn’t just about mobility, it’s about limiting Survivor safety -- The Dredge’s ability to cut off access to lockers, control movement, and create uncertainty adds a level of mental pressure that isn’t just a matter of simple speed. Many killers have mobility, but not all of them force Survivors to reconsider their escape routes and create deadzones the way Dredge does.
Your claim that lockdown potential is only ‘3-genning’ completely misses the actual pressure Dredge creates through Nightfall. Survivors play worse when their visibility is limited -- it forces mistakes, delays healing, and creates higher vulnerability in chases. Saying 'vision-based pressure is skill-less' is reductive -- plenty of mechanics (like stealth killers, aura suppression, blindness effects) capitalize on limiting Survivor information, which is absolutely a valid design choice.
As for the Nurse mobility claim, that argument falls apart entirely. You’re comparing Blink range to base Killer speed, but you’re ignoring map traversal efficiency. A 4.6 Killer walks around obstacles -- Nurse blinks through them. Blink allows direct engagement without movement restrictions, making her infinitely more effective at map traversal than any normal-speed Killer. Saying she has ‘the worst mobility’ is objectively incorrect -- not only is her power the most unique mobility in the game, it’s also what makes her the strongest Killer at high-level play.
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934905#Comment_3934905
Because dredge has nearly nothing else going for him besides hit and run and a low skill floor chase power, there's almost no possible way to make him well designed without a new power entirely, whereas the killer you mentioned very well can be changed to be more healthy and already have well designed chase powers for the most part. Also Nurse quite literally has the worst mobility in the game.
I think you're oversimplifying The Dredge’s design. While hit-and-run is a viable strategy for him, his Nightfall mechanic and locker teleportation create a unique pressure dynamic that Survivors have to actively manage. The idea that he has 'nothing else going for him' ignores the map control, lockdown potential, and vision-based pressure that define his kit.
Reworking him wouldn’t require a full replacement of his power -- it would need refinements to Nightfall, potential adjustments to teleport mechanics, or better synergy between his abilities. Many Killers have received adjustments without needing a full redesign.
As for Nurse -- her Blink quite literally bypasses every traversal limitation in the game. Saying she has 'the worst mobility' is objectively incorrect. If anything, her mobility is too strong, which is why she’s considered the highest skill-ceiling Killer in the game.
Edit: this is not an advocacy to render Nurse's mobility useless, but to say Nurse has the worst mobility in the game and that Dredge has better mobility is wild. Nurse can close the distance in a chase as she bypasses pallets rendering them useless, while Dredge is more of an anchor by placing remnants down and forcing the survivor away from a loop entirely.
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930446#Comment_3930446
Ok well that's an immature assumption to make, killers can have plenty other problems besides strength. My problem with him is that he takes little skill to play and is encouraged to hit and run, a lazy strategy made really easy by his mobility.
Even though I do not play hit-and-run Dredge, Dredge suffers from mobility like other high-end mobility killers - (Kaneki, Blight, Billy, Nurse, etc).
Additionally, a Dredge's mobility comes from teleporting to a locker that they may or may not get a disadvantage for doing. Sometimes the lockers are not near key objectives, meaning the Dredge will have to waltz over and wait for their ability to go on cooldown to teleport again.
I am just wondering why Dredge, someone you advocated for removing because they're easy and lazy to play due to their mobility is an issue - but not the other killers that perform much better than Dredge (barring Nurse)?
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930445#Comment_3930445
This is also why I try so hard to defend stealth Killers on these forums. They're fine, they're actually genuinely fine and balanced. Yes even with low mobility. The mindgames are the point, the difficulty in finding them is the point, they do fine. It's not "just bad Survivors" either because as BHVR's own data shows, most people don't even play at that level and these Killers are all still hitting around 60% Killrates on average just. Friggin'. Fine.
I truly do think that people in the community are either so spoiled for strong choices that make the game trivial now that they just don't consider these guys, at all… that, or they remember when they actually were pathetically weak and don't think the buffs they DID get are enough because, well, they can't dash and patrol the whole map at mach ten, and they can't easily snowball at 5 gens, and they take genuine effort and skill at Killer overall to play, so they may as well be as bad as Trapper right?
it's like some people in this community can't live without looking at anyone that doesn't have a mobility option and crapping on them because "they're old, they're not fast, they have to be weak because if I'm wrong and they're actually not that weak and they're fine, that makes me WRONG, and God Forbid I get proven wrong on the internet…"
"Is it true? Am I so out of touch? No. No, it's just that they always play against bad Survivors and nothing else, that's it, anyone who plays them ONLY gets Bad Survivors and just ain't very good. Not like me, the strong Blight Main who easily winstreaks because I make the game trivial and ends the game before it even starts at 5 gens so nobody gets a round. Yeah, I'M the biggest baddest best Killer around! I'M the skilled one! Me!"
Sorry for the late response! I took a little break from DBD, haha. -
But yes, I think map mobility is a strong aspect to killers. Ironically, when I played killer I didn't really gravitate towards them - the closest was probably Wraith for me and potentially Onryo.
I enjoyed Doctor, Billy was a little hard for me to play and navigate with on controller lol. So, I can see the benefits to what you're saying as M1 killers do typically rely on more mindgame oriented playstyles - and even leads into hit and run. I've never actively played as a hit and run killer, but that's because I can typically get a down in a relatively normal time.
Obviously, when I first started I noticed I would overextend or hyperfixate on someone for way too long - but that's the beauty of playing killer, you learn and adapt to recognize when a chase is fruitful for you to continue going. - I think that's a major issue that many killer mains suffer from - not knowing when to leave chase and pressure elsewhere — which can lead to an over reliance on mobility killers.
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@ToadMagic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930453#Comment_3930453
Honestly, I think the gap between the best and worst items in DBD needs to shrink, BUT:
If maps tracked killer scratch marks, it'd push people into immersive dbd (hiding gameplay), which, let's be honest, is just boring. I don't think it would be strong, but the immersive dbd hiding gameplay that pubs love to use is.. awful to play with and against (again, not because its good, because its boring and makes matches last way longer than they need to).
I do think it'd be pretty cool if maps were made better for coordinating with randos in pubs, though. That'd probably be fine.
Smoke grenades are a hard pass for me, they are okay in 2v8, but in 1v4 it'd feel absolutely terrible to play against. The movement trail idea is neat, but they couldn't make it too easy for the killer to spot, or the item would just be dead on arrival -another useless item you'd never pick over a toolbox. I can't imagine chasing someone for a full minute, about to get the down, then they just pop a smoke grenade and boom, they're at the next loop (or lose you entirely). It would widen the gap between the actual op killers (nurse, blight, drac) and m1 killers/weaker killers even more, because the actual OP killers have the mobility to catch up and get the down (or ignore the next loop entirely) while an M1 or weaker killer may have to sit at the T and L for an extra 30sec trying to mindgame and get the hit they deserved 30 seconds ago.
I think the best items should lose maybe -25% of their strength (toolbox) and most of the other items should be buffed to about the same level. If every item was as strong as the current toolbox, for example, the game would be absolutely agony and misery for killers.
I suppose, however, the idea is more-so helping with Mindgames hence the map idea.
The map needs something additional to it, otherwise, people will not be inclined to go towards it. I guess for lower hour players (I am not that player) - they could burn their map to prevent themselves from not running into the killer, but for someone to load into a game and bring that type of map to burn it (which burns fast, mind you) is a waste of an item. I was thinking of it more for players with thousands of hours and are typically great loopers - the map would be good to help like the Blood Amber for a key does.
I'm glad you see a benefit to tracking randoms as I see that complained about on the forums quite consistently, so we have leeway here.
The smoke grenade would only last a couple seconds and wouldn't be the full blown AOE that you see in 2v8. The idea is more centered on giving more items, I can't remember the last time the survivor role has been given a whole new item other than small changes like the BloodSense map.
When you advocate for these toolbox changes, are you directing this towards the strongest of toolboxes or an outright fundamental change to all toolboxes? Even with the smoke grenade, if it was tied to 1 grenade -- it would not be as strong as a medkit, toolbox, or a flashlight.
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@Ember_Hydra said:
So when is trapper going to get a HUGE and needed buff? He has an abysmal kill rate. Above the (noob free grades, where they can only phase other noobs)
At this point just kill switch trapper or give him NOED buff after a gen pops for 30 sec.
My solution make the settings speed and trapper bag ALL base kit and make the survivors not being able to disarm animation traps for other survivors to pass by. Base kit corrupt intervention.
I have no clue how the developer thinks this killer is in a "OKEY state"
1 hook stage. They found a map item and the killer becomes more powerless than usual.
1 Hook stage whole game, because I can't do anything against perks or map itemhttps://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZVQH2Q0TFQ2D/sk-c3-a4rmbild-2025-05-17-043025.png
As a person who has played Trapper, as others have stated the build is the issue and it needs to be re-evaluated. You do not need Forever Entwined or Hex: Plaything on a Trapper.
What is the purpose of Hex: Plaything on him? To sneak up on survivors and catch them off guard or what's the reasoning for this perk selection here?
Forever Entwined is not necessary, it only affects pick-up and drop speeds and those are not necessary on Trapper. The only perks that I see that are good on your Trapper is Corrupt Intervention. Save The Best For Last, sure could be good on Trapper, but with the changes and nerfs done to it, it is a massive drawback as you are outright ignoring the obsession and hoping they fall into your trap and picking them up out of it to prevent losing your STBFL stacks.
Your builds needs more cohesion, put more gen slowdown besides just Corrupt Intervention otherwise you'll be genrushed or go for the typical basement Trapper build as both would be far better and give more success than the questionable perk choices you've given.
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@Cribear said:
Killers shouldn't know if a survivor is replaced by a Bot. I just had 2 games in a row where multiple players where replaced by bots and in both cases the Killer decided to take the game hostage and not kill the last bot until he catches me. One of these games lastet 40 minutes until I DC'd. Most Killers can probably find out if someone is a bot, but they shouldn't have help by the game.
Like other posters have said, it largely depends on the killer at hand.
I've had survivors give up (idle and not recover) and had bots for teammates, while the killer would just kill the bots like @Archael says they do.
Sure, other killers might not care and just brute force through but the game is dead regardless unless substantial progress was made. I've won games where I had bots, I've lost games where I haven't had any bots. Regardless, a killer knowing whether or not a bot exists doesn't change anything and the blame should not be shifted on the killer for a bot appearing. If anything, the inverse would happen, and a killer would play normally even with the handicap of a bot, meaning more frustrating games for survivors that @Archael would probably play through normally as they no longer have knowledge that a bot exists in the game.
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Yeah, I don't really know how I would change the perk other than attach aura reading onto the perk, rather than the sound audio cue it does.
Spine Chill (even though I loved the perk to pieces years ago) shared the same area with Premonition for a while. If Premonition showed the aura, lets say - I move my camera to the killer, it shows the aura for x seconds, I'd most definitely use it more, especially with Eyes of Belmont but otherwise it is a perk I do not care to use as I prefer aura based, rather than audio cues for perks.
Edit: it would compete with Object of Obsession but instead of outright aura reading that Object does when a killer aura reads you, it only shows the aura if you look at the killer. I don't think the perk would be overpowered, but otherwise it will not be a perk that I select myself. I think a lot of the perks like Premonition or even Small Game should not depend on audio cues to make the game more accessible - but that's just me. I don't use either perk as Small Game (I've memorized totems and the sound cues are annoying), while Premonition is the same - just a sound cue and the perk goes off - I'd rather have something more viable and versatile and that's why Premonition isn't used often.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
The only thing I still think she ‘needs’ is for the roar to start after the ambush fully charges, not during.
Yeah, this would help her with mindgame potential. I think Pig is in an alright factor of her own.
Like @radiantHero23 mentions, along with many other killers on the roster typically push you to have to play for thousands of hours to know the proper ins and outs for any killer -- Pig is no exception here.
Along with the addition of the screaming builds that Pigs would use to guarantee a kill due to not being able to get the trap off in time. She has her weaknesses, which can be glaring when compared to others and her ambush could be tweaked like the poster I've quoted. When a Pig is crouched and the roar starts, the survivor typically can predict the Pig as they charge up their ability. This can be devastating, which leads to a lot of 50/50 mindgames where the Pig either properly predicts the survivor and hits them or outright misses them completely — causing more issues as Pig suffers from chase more than other killers in her class type.
Edit: Obviously Pig is not OP, she just needs tweaks if anything.
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@krazy_ivan said:
I like the smoke grenade idea, but I would reduce duration to 2-3 seconds, even go as low as 1.5 seconds due to the possibility of 4-man SWFs spamming and abusing smoke grenades. Also they would need to be limited to 1 use per player per match, like firecrackers.
It seems they will be reworking maps and keys in future updates so future will tell if the changes are along what you recommend here.
I see, yes. I can see the point about them being abuseable by a lot of SWF players if they decide to pick them over the other options. Just a food for thought to improve item variety, rather than the stale meta that we currently have -- but thank you for feedback.
@ToadMagic - so, you are of the opinion that items and add-ons do not need to be overhauled? That maps are fine as they are, even if they're the least used item by far? Even useless add-ons, such as the "Instructions"? Or can you elaborate more instead of an outright blanket statement?
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@lettuchia said:
Remove him. He's fundamentally flawed by taking bare minimum skill to play and encouraged to hit and run
You advocated for removing him, why else think that the killer is a fundamental problem and/or strong character to play. If Dredge is not a strong killer, why would you think that this comment wouldn't imply strength as a factor in your recommendation for his removal?
Typically, killers deemed 'fundamentally flawed' in this way are either oppressive or frustrating to play against, which tends to correlate with perceived strength in some form.
If the issue isn't his strength, then is it more about him being unfun rather than overpowered?
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929803#Comment_3929803
You are the first ever person I have seen on these forums acknowledge the strength of a stealth Killer like Onryo making loops very dangerous with her admittedly weak Stealth, which Killers like Wraith and Ghostface can also do due to on-demand stealth powers. It's like people forget that this IS a type of antiloop because it's the original form of antiloop - mindgaming. These three Killers ALL excel at extended mindgames, and it baffles me that I do not see more people playing these Killers ever do that anymore. I always do it at tall loops and it really does make a difference in play. I guess it's a lost art form.
Haha, thank you! I arguably haven't played killer in months (I prefer playing survivor, so I haven't touched killer in a while) but I think I analyze the game on a fundamental level. 🥲
I like to look at all the killers having potential pros and cons, with counterplay for each killer. Like we've mentioned, Onryo can catch up to a survivor who has used exhaustion as she can quickly shift between manifest/demanifest. Dredge suffers a lot here as obviously they can't keep creating remnants over and over to close down a loop, meaning he suffers here a little more. He can teleport to a locker and sometimes lose even more distance at times too. It's not excessive, but you understand my point that it is noticeable.
I do feel like when I played killer, I recognized bad behaviors survivors do -- for example, survivors who excessively try to get a gen done without recognizing that there are other gens to do, there are gens nearby that you can work on... Instead of going down for the same gen over and over. Another factor is simply walking away to avoid leaving scratch marks to throw the killer off, which is definitely a lost art for some survivors.
So, playing both roles allowed me to analyze the game a bit better, even if I have way more hours in survivor gameplay. Survivor gameplay allows people to obviously pick up on these things and learn counterplay too. 😊
I think for Wraith, Ghostface, and Dredge - the reasoning is mainly lack of mobility (even though I'd argue Wraith is mobile, as they can traverse the map, bodyblock, and close down loops with timing of uncloaks). Ghostface is a bit harder to do, especially with being broken out of stealth and mindgaming, but a Ghostface who knows how to hide their red stain excels. Dredge, like I mentioned in the above . People typically opt for higher mobility killers as they have higher lethality → Blight (rushing and speed allows for more snowballing), Nurse (bypassing pallets, map traversal, and potential snowballs), Hillbilly (high map traversal and potential to one shot with a timed curve), Kaneki (high mobility, the biting mechanic, the ability to bodyblock ((similar to a Wraith)), and snowball potential).
Dredge suffers a bit from snowball potential unless survivors are clustered together, hence the hit and run playstyle, while Wraith is similar here to Dredge. Same for Ghostface again, unless the survivors are clustered and being able to be marked and downed continually.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929945#Comment_3929945
Someone made an exaggerative text about killers needing to be validated by winning.yes.
You pivoted and did whataboutism saying well, "The other side does this"Mindfulness exercises are not "whataboutism." I said absolutely nothing about the scenario other than ask why it happens, a hypothetical question that has nothing to do with anything you have said. You assumed what I must think based on the posts from other people, so that clearly for me to ask such a question, I must agree with everything you don't on the topic.
If you are annoyed, I apologize for making you feel annoyed - however, do not reframe your original post and act like you were coming from a completely nombiased aspectThe reason I'm annoyed is because you are still trying to make arguments for me, and implying bias based on your own mistake and continue doubling down. You said you wanted to stop the conversation in the same post you both responded to and @'ed me, yet you're still going and trying to twist me as "reframing."
You did not say, "Well, survivors teabag at the exit gate too. Both sides do toxic behavior." - that is not what you said, so I said what I said to you.You're right, I did not say that. All I did was ask a simple question so that the person reading it would come to that conclusion themselves. If they're actually capable of being unbiased, its a very easy avenue to "maybe the problem isn't insert role, maybe its the player." Reread my single question, your response, then ask yourself how many of these things did he actually say, and how many did I assume based off of what I assumed was his stance.
Thats my issue. All this has done was clog up the topic, so thanks.
If your intent was to make people come up with their own conclusions by asking a question, the pivot that you did wasn't needed. You deflected, it's a case of whataboutism, but I digress.
You keep insisting this was just a ‘mindfulness exercise,’ yet you directly engaged in comparison between killer frustration and survivor teabagging. (and did not respond to) — If this was meant to be neutral, there wouldn’t have been any reason for you to push back on my response or claim I was ranting.
And now, instead of addressing my points, you’re shifting the conversation to ‘clogging up the topic,’ rather than actually engaging with the discussion you participated in. If you were truly just asking a question rather than making a stance, this exchange wouldn’t have gone on as long as it did.
At this point, I see no reason to continue when the discussion is just being reframed after the fact. I’ll leave it at that. Have a good one.
Edit: yet still responding after saying the exchange clogged up the thread as a whole.
Asking a hypothetical question and pivoting is not 'mindfulness exercises' - it's an attempt to dismiss the person's comment. All I'm reading here is killers get frustrated, survivor ends up dying, killer starts getting an advantage, and is now upset that the survivors are not "trying" and upset about the abandon feature. - it's almost like the original poster had merit.
One side is objectively prolonging the game, upset that the survivor side all abandoned when the game is lost, and want to go on an emotional stance of - "Well, I had to endure, why doesn't the other side want to endure with me?" - this is exactly why I am happy that the abandon feature exists - I want to play the game that I spend money on, I don't want my games stalled because of a killer's frustration. I do not need to sit there and validate the killer's actions, I can simply move on and play new matches, which is why the abandon feature exists. I do not understand why people are against a system to allow faster matchmaking when killer queues are at all time high — but at the end of the day, it's a petty self inflicted wound and comparing this to a teabagging "hypothetical" is nonsensical and projecting dismissal is classic.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929942#Comment_3929942
I only responded to what you said.
You didn't. Thats my point. You responded at me to things that others said, things you assumed were my stances, and other things unrelated to my statement. I'm not being defensive, just annoyed that you're trying to drag me into an argument when literally all I did was propose a mindfulness observation. Which wasn't even at you.
Maybe if you reread what I said at the tippy top of what I said to you at the beginning:
Someone made an exaggerative text about killers needing to be validated by winning.
You pivoted and did whataboutism saying well, "The other side does this"
I responded that both sides do this and now you're practically reframing what you said when you did not say that. You did not say, "Well, survivors teabag at the exit gate too. Both sides do toxic behavior." - that is not what you said, so I said what I said to you.
If you are annoyed, I apologize for making you feel annoyed - however, do not reframe your original post and act like you were coming from a completely nonbiased aspect - your post did not include both sides and directly just pivoted off the other person.
What they said, even if exaggerative - is the fundamental problem with the gameplay loop and why the abandon feature exists. Killers will cause a long drawn out game either by not hooking survivors, slugging them (and using the argument -- well, I don't want to hook them, they might kobe off), or intentionally bleeding them out (either due to previous survivors in a prior match or they are powertripping), while causing a frustration loop of gameplay, hence, why the abandon feature exists.
Teabagging at the exit gate is not comparable to bleeding out or preventing hooking because of a potential unhook, so it's a moot point and a weak attempt at a form of "gotcha". Survivors should not have to wait around for the game to end, killers will never be placed in this position, hence the response to begin with.
Edit: this is not a rant, this is directly to you - if you respond with how this is a rant or some dismissive language once more, this is my last response to you. I already apologized, so no need to dismiss again.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929939#Comment_3929939
Again, another defensive rant. All I did in that post was both agree with your overall message, and ask what words were apparently put into my mouth.
Which you responded back with how survivors teabag at the gate, so what's the difference.I asked why it was specific to one side, not "so whats the difference." Thats something you decided to add. I pointed out that it is NOT a ROLE issue. Go shadowbox somewhere else, you're making arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with me.
The only person being defensive and passive aggressive here is you, I only responded to what you said.
I even pointed out the exaggerative tone, but if your response is fundamentally "I don't like your tone" and "You are being defensive" without engaging in what I am typing then we can end the "defensive" misinterpretation and end things here, have a good night/day @Ryuhi
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929925#Comment_3929925
You are implying all survivors do that, I haven't teabagged in years.Where did I imply that? All I did was take a blatantly biased statement and asked why it apparently only applies to one side.
That said, you kinda illustrated my point. Not all killers do it like not all survivors do it. Poor sportsmanship is a player problem, not a role one. Why you needed to go on a defensive rant when we agree is beyond me.
Edit: I really have to address this one
So, what you're saying is not an argument.what argument did I even make that you're apparently responding to
The person you responded to was responding to the post as a whole as people are implying how the "abandon" option is utilized.
The person responded, albeit in a exaggerative way by saying "Killers need to have WIN in all caps for them to be happy."
Which you responded back with how survivors teabag at the gate, so what's the difference.
I chimed in and said what I said that painting one side as doing toxic things is not an argument.
Killers saying that the abandon feature is a "bail out" or "ggez I'm going next" defeats the purpose of the intention behind the "abandon" feature and even though the poster you responded to was exaggerating — what I am reading from people that do not like the abandon feature are people stuck in the frustration loop. Survivor team made the game a hassle for me, I kill one of the survivors, now I am upset that they give up. - regardless I do not find this a large scale problem to warrant getting rid of the abandon feature like @Flawless_ here says.
It's like people want others to endure long, drawn out games to have the upper hand. The game is dead by definition unless the survivor team has done substantial gen pressure, so advocating for the removal in let's say - I, as a killer endured so much to get here, they should endure the same like I endured is an odd take. People running specific builds (WGLF) are more than likely not on a gen because they need to get value from WGLF. Someone flaunting their OTR and DS are not on a gen or progressing the game forward (the other team, sure, might be pushing gens) - perks like these are not pushing the game forward as the user typically is not pushing the game forward, so the argument that I endured so much, why can't the other side doesn't hold weight for the "abandon" feature. The "abandon" feature was implemented to stop long, drawn out games from occurring in the first place.
The alternative - even with the exaggerative tone of the person you responded to was accurate to how it was in the past. People would slug and do unsavory behavior like slugging and bleeding out, humping on the ground, and even teabagging at the exit gate as all forms of time wasters.
However, if people are advocating for the "abandon" feature for when survivors are teabagging and not leaving, sure. - I do not think that's the correct route to take, as you can always get survivors who are stragglers, have a killer with an endgame build not have any surprise at all (the survivors will wonder why the killer didn't abandon) - by all means, we can stretch that definition to include that but it would destroy killers with endgame builds too, as now the survivors can just abandon as well.
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@Flawless_ said:
I’ll give you that that not all survivors give up or play poorly, and I’m not claiming they do. But the fact that a surrender/abandon feature even needs to exist because some matches become so unplayable that the only option is to AFK or letting go on hook says a lot about the structure of the game.
And let’s be real “going next”, whether by letting go or just refusing to engage in order to abandon has been a problem for a while, even if it does not necessarily happen in your matches. We’re not all playing at the same MMR or under the same conditions, although if there’s an upcoming “anti-go next” feature that means it’s generalized enough that the devs took notice.
What I’m saying is that if people are routinely hitting the point where they want to abandon, that’s not a player issue - it’s a game structure issue. Maybe the early-mid-late game structure is outdated at this point, and maybe they should be addressing that head-on like, say, redesigning objectives to keep players engaged till the end or maybe making gen speeds dynamic like they actually did in 2v8. Instead BHVR slapped a mechanic on top to keep people from quitting. It’s lazy design.
It's either killers (who are the power role) changes their behavior, which is not going to happen. The survivor team (even individual) needs to change their behavior, which is not going to happen. What you are advocating for is not possible, a game or even people cannot change how others play.
In my previous post, I remember distinctly a Wraith player bleeding everyone out on RPD, as a soloq player, and bleeding them all out for four minutes. Nothing will change for this Wraith player, they will continue doing the behavior because there was nothing done to speed the process up. Survivors are stuck here enduring four minutes of downtime because of this one Wraith player.
I've had a Wraith play for hatch, I go to the hatch, he closes it - guess what he did? He downed me, I stayed on the ground for 3 minutes and 59 seconds as the end game collapse went on, and he moried me at the last second - completely petty and asinine behavior.
You cannot change this behavior, people will do what they want, how they want, and do the things that they do because it's a power trip for them. People teabagging at the gates, that is a power trip for them. There is no gameplay mechanics, nothing to push people to not do this behavior - and now, when I play a game of DBD - I am not subject to sitting on my tummy and crawling around like a snake for four minutes. I want to go and play different games and it's not a bad thing for me to say I want more seamless matchmaking. No one wants to sit in a game and go against this as a survivor, so yes, I will abandon every time.
I don't know if Behavior implemented a system where if someone has Unbreakable (something I brought up during the PTB) but if not, that can be a change that's discussed about as that is an ability for one survivor to pick themselves up — but if there is no way to pick ourselves up or two survivors are being petty and won't pop a gen for ten minutes (never been in this situation as I'd go and sacrifice myself) so I can get into another game.
I want to play the game I paid for, not be a subject of entertainment for the power role to waste my time.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929594#Comment_3929594
If thats specific to killers, then why does tbagging in the exit happen?
You are implying all survivors do that, I haven't teabagged in years.
Just because some survivors teabag doesn't mean all survivors teabag.
Just because I've seen killers like Bubba, Wraith, Chucky, Billy, etc hump my body as I bleed out does not mean all of those killers I described all do the behavior.
Survivors who teabag at the exit gate, they could also play killer too.
Killers who hump you and bleed you out for four minutes, additionally, can also play survivor too.
You do realize both sides can do toxic things, they can be flex players, can be one survivor/killer main but it doesn't change the fact that toxic people do toxic things. It's not an argument to paint one side as doing something and even in my prior posts, I never said all killers do it.
If killers want an abandon feature for survivors staying in the exit gate, sure. When I played Deathslinger or Demogorgon (killers I am not good with) and the survivors reached the end, I would just go and kick things for points. Sure, I see a survivor teabag me as a killer, it might annoy me a bit - reminder, a bit. The survivor teabagging me during chase is just taunting me, they lose distance, and I can catch up.
If they're teabagging at the exit gate, in the past I would just push them out or I just don't go to the exit gate at all and farm points regardless. The difference between the exit gate and bleeding out for four minutes is time difference - they do not last as long as one another and the killer has the power to end both things by simply - hooking everyone instead of bleeding people out or pushing the survivors out at the gate.
Maybe it's because I have thousands of hours as survivor and when I play killer teabagging doesn't bother me, but to compare teabagging at an exit gate to bleeding and slugging people out is a bizarre stance.
Not all survivors do toxic behavior, not all killers do toxic behavior, however -- toxic people do toxic behavior. A lot of the Dead By Daylight community has a petty stance, I got steamrolled this game, I'll take it out on the next group I go against (as killer or survivor) - the abandon feature cuts through that. I've had killers slug off rip and just have everyone bleed out when nothing was done to the killer. By proxy, I do not teabag or do toxic behaviors to killers either. So, what you're saying is not an argument.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929803#Comment_3929803
fair enough
i enjoy killers like dredge, oni, blight, and the legion because of their cross map mobility
Do you play on PC? I have played Blight before, but I find him a little hard to control on console.
Dredge feels a bit clunky to play as, as Dredge is practically Onryo with a few extra steps.
Onryo typically has her TVs near gens and sometimes there's an overlap when two gens are clustered, meaning two TVs near two gens that survivors would have to turn off. She gets more teleportation and mobility built into her kit and as others stated, Dredge's issue is that he's very map dependent.
A gen can spawn in the corner of the map or in a deadzone, Dredge teleports to a locker not so close to said gen (think of Temple of Purgation map), which results in Dredge having to manually walk to the gen. I do feel like adding more lockers (hopefully not near windows lol) and the ability to teleport to chests would give him more viability.
He is strong in shutting down loops, but suffers if the survivor is holding a 99 Sprint Burst or a survivor Lithes away, resulting in the Dredge losing distance, having to teleport to a locker to catch up or walk. However, he is fun to play and I know people would rank him higher in higher MMR. 😋
Legion is interesting, what's your reasoning there as they operate different from your previous three?