CautionaryMary
CautionaryMary
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
As the title says,
A lot of the issues I find when playing against SWF's is the stacking of perks, usually where Meta comes from, do you think this could be a place to force people to play different roles within a team and diversify matches?I should not be punished by using Sprint Burst (my favorite perk) just because my friend chooses to also like Sprint Burst and want to use it.
As others have stated, DBD is fundamentally a casual game that people can choose to play with friends or soloq (the majority player base) - by preventing build creativity (with the addition of the haste changes) - it stifles the game and puts people in a position to now have to decide what perks they run, who is the best at so and so perk, and create even more of a disparity.
As the above poster said, if limiting what a SWF brings is a situation where you think are issues - then simply running perks that counteract these perks (we just got a killer release that causes exhaustion to be a bit more redundant and pushing stealth oriented gameplay) is not a cause for concern and would make pub games even more comp heavy minded or lose a drastic number of people ^ such as the lute lover.
You shouldn't be restricted for choosing to play with friends and the game doesn't need to penalize more of the community when the killrates are to what Behavior thinks is fine.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912168#Comment_3912168
Well, you heard it hear folks. Nurse is officially a worse killer than the ghoul.
Haha, if you think that's a gotcha Reinami then sure.
Even with the changes, I would still argue that Kaneki is still better than Nurse - what is your point?
I'd rather go against Nurse, I can loop a Nurse quite well - as it actually is skill based and more mind game oriented rather than Kaneki as they are now.
Do you think Nurse is stronger than Kaneki, even with Nurse's basic aspect that it takes many, many, many hours to get to a masterful Nurse while the average Joe can pick up Kaneki and get consistent 4ks?
Edit: you know, I've said on the forums that I love versing Nurse. 🙃 I don't mind Nurse and I can loop Nurses perfectly fine! Kaneki on the other hand, as mentioned prior, has a low skill ceiling.
Low cost, high reward compared to high cost, high reward for Nurse.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912230#Comment_3912230
The Mask addon is being changed to be more like BBQ, where it has a minimum range requirement like BBQ has.
The actual big question is "Why aren't these nerfs clearly listed in the PTB patch notes"????? So many people were waiting for these nerfs, and they are secretly hidden inside the PTB? And they are so secret that the community managers weren't told about them? How on earth did this happen?
This does nothing and even Hens in his most recent video acknowledges how busted the Mask add-on is.
Either make it screaming or aura reading, I'd opt for aura reading instead of making survivors commit to a lose-lose situation of cleansing a totem proccing Penti or continuing to pressure gens and work through the hexes that are uncleansable.
People say for survivors to do totems, people retort back that they are not the primary objective, yet they release an add-on with no further testing and think it's okay without thinking of the ramifications of said changes.
Not once have I played a game so fundamentally flawed with the amount of changes Behavior does out of thin air - even in these batches of nerfs that Kaneki gets - they didn't address core fundamental issues such as hitting through objects, the fact that the Ghoul can consistently stay enraged due to it being triggered by one hit, the vaulting speed being uncounterable - but not surprising given that Behavior for all the years of their existence do not listen to their community and I suppose the queue times will still not let up and people will still not find the killer fun to go against regardless.
Edit: if you DON'T want to go down the route of doing that, allowing the survivor who screamed while touching a totem to not lose their progress would be a beneficial change - but it's either one or the other - change the add-on or change the interruption with screaming. No one should be told to simply use Calm Spirit and Counterforce (a 30% debuff + Counterforce - still slow) or Hardened (cleanse a totem and search a chest) for Behavior's inability to balance their game properly — it's utterly asinine.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912194#Comment_3912194
He's already has nerfs on the PTB.
As in BHVR already thought of multiple nerfs, and placed them on the PTB for people to test.
Where is the changes for the bugged Mask add-on?
Why is there screaming and aura reading built into the add-on on a highly mobile killer that creates fundamental game breaking issues with a built in Face The Darkness and BBQ on Hex builds?
You do realize not all people played the PTB (many saying that they couldn't play due to the many issues with loading into a game) - WHILE me, a Playstation player cannot play the PTB to give feedback?
Edit: regardless, my point still stands. Why does a famous and not at all "indie" company not have better internal QA testing? Why focus on a PTB and then not address problems that people had within the context of the PTB? Many people saying that he was buffed after the PTB (I cannot fact check that nor desire to) as it doesn't defeat the purpose that the killer is inherently overtuned and busted. It is NOT the job of consumers to tell you how to BALANCE your game, it is the job of the developers to create BALANCE in the game that they CREATE.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909957#Comment_3909957
I get what you're saying but another concern could be the downside to this.
If they buff all the perks to be strong as if they were stacked before, then players will have their "unfair" hard to counter haste at every activation, as opposed to having lots of small levels of haste throughout the match but only have really high haste at a few points when the activation conditions align right.
In short I suspect BHVR is aware of this and haste will never be as good as it was before while also ruining a lot of fun builds that were not even that good most of the time. In short, these changes you want to see in order to balance out the removal of stacking are probably never coming.
A problem arises that many Haste perks are situationally conditioned.
That is why people usually stack them with other haste perks to create both utility for survivor or killer.
As the OP mentioned, them limiting haste perks individually will do nothing but create more situationally used perks that used to interact with each other but now no longer do that.
People using Blood Pact with other haste perks do not warrant a nerf to haste related perks given that these perks (let's use Blood Pact as an example) indicates that you have to be near the obsession to gain value. Let's say a duo SWF or a full man SWF (one has Blood Pact with other haste related perks, alongside the other - I've seen Cru5h with a similar build). You have two survivors predominately in chase, they are practically interlocked and intertwined the whole game as they need to be near one another meaning less gen pressure as a whole as it means these two survivors are together and less gen progress is on the map in general.
I don't mind this change as now in @Defnotmeghead words they won't be "catchable" but it pushes more people into running more meta related perks instead of sh*ts and giggles for a YouTube channel.
So, by all means if a person thinks haste stacking is broken on survivor with these niche combos - these perks that are used (formerly in tandem with others) will be weaker individually. No one will use Blood Pact or the Teamwork perk because NO ONE hardly used them other than for meme worthy videos.
It wouldn't affect me, but I as a person who likes build variety and creativity feel for people who run these perks for albeit situational advantages and gives killer the boost on their side as you have two people willingly playing around to not be "catchable" while trading off progression in the game. Again, the perks are hardly used and makes Behavior have to fundamentally buff these perks individually and we all know how long it takes Behavior to buff perks in their application and usability with many, many, many perks that still need to be addressed.
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@Mandy said:
I'm going to step in on this one right away - a killers power has nothing to do with sales first of all, two completely separate departments that work independent of each other!
The feedback about The Ghoul on PTB was incredibly mixed, with some saying buffs were needed and some saying nerfs were needed, in fact more were saying "D tier killler" than there were saying that he was a strong killer. So whilst the feedback is useful to us, its not set in stone at how players would react once the Chapter hit live.
Bugfix Patch 2 is the earliest one to get any changes into after content has gone live, the first patch is normally addressing things found in the PTB or internal testing. It's why there's no changes in this PTB to The Ghoul, as the PTB is based on the current Live game.
Mandy, if Behavior releases a killer that has a low tier skill ceiling, alongside problematic issues (the Mask being bugged working on survivors in lockers for weeks now).
Then sometimes you have to wonder does Behavior release broken things on purpose? Look at Chucky and their release, along with old MFT and the problems that it had when it arose in the past as prime examples.
Behavior needs better internal QA testing if the idea that you tout that they do not focus on creating strong things for clicks and revenue.
They are a business at the end of the day in a marketplace where the game promotes add-ons, perks, and map offerings to be used for an innate advantage over their opponent.
So, introducing two killers, alongside MFT isn't a good look for a company to create strong aspects, having people buy up the content, and then having it nerfed in less than a year to more niche playstyles. Literally Behavior wanted to nerfed Xenomorph, in the same update of creating an oppressive killer such as Kaneki — if that is not a textbook case of introducing new mechanics (an auto aim on a highly mobile killer while not addressing his bugs during a major event) is a disgusting approach to keep customers from wanting to interact or continually play the game that they pay for.
People boycotting the game and queue times were never an issue with any prior killer, only with this killer - yet you cannot provide a date for a HF2? Edit: I don't understand why Behavior still has not communicated on the issues that Kaneki has, yet we have an allusion that he will be fixed in Hotfix 2 - yet no details, no date, nothing. No wonder the queue times are so long, when a company refuses to communicate with their bottom line -- the consumers.
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@SoGo said:
Update: With the 8.7.0 PTB, Dark Theory recieved a laughable 1% buff. It's 3% now.
Anyway, still useless, idea bad, new groundwork needed!
I think extending the range would be a more beneficial change - people have talked about extending ranges of Boons.
Generally speaking, Boons are used for resetting — the strongest boon being Circle of Healing and Shadowstep behind it. Most people do not loop within a boon's radius as it can be snuffed out, so extending the range would be beneficial as it would allow people to not loop directly onto the boon.
I don't know of specific changes you could do with Shadowstep without verging into other aspects of perks, like a Quick and Quiet wouldn't work in the context of a Shadowstep.
Extending ranges would potentially cause people to use more boons, but again - the problem is the time sunk using them versus doing a gen. - I wouldn't increase/decrease the time it takes to boon, but a generalized range would be nice instead of the small radius it has now.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912143#Comment_3912143
You are acting like he's better than nurse though. He's not. So he's not like (lets killswitch him) broken. He does need some minor tweaks but the reality is people are blowing it way out of proportion.
The point i'm making is that playing the killer for a couple hours on the PTB does not dictate if that are "good or not" it takes time to figure out how to play as and against a new killer, so saying that like "PTB should catch this" or "everyone said he was trash on PTB" makes sense, its just reality, it takes time to figure stuff out and PTB is often not enough time to figure these things out.
I would argue that Kaneki is better than Nurse for the lack of a skill ceiling that this killer has.
I have seen Kanekis get blatant hits while lagging - something a Nurse or a Blight cannot do as the game doesn't point you to the survivor and automatically put you onto them. Can a Blight or a Nurse bodyblock you in the same fashion as a Kaneki can? Nope. - Kaneki basically does everything better - he can traverse better, his innate mobility is better, he gets enraged quite consistently (making it so that he's often always enraged) while problematic builds are quite oppressive on him. Why did Hens not mention these specific builds on a Nurse or a Blight that are in the same category of S tier? Because the game doesn't handhold you into playing Nurse or a Blight and give you free hits and then give you the mobility to close down chases as frequently as the other S tiers.
Even Dracula cannot do the things Kaneki does, yet Dracula still is up there in lethality for their mobility. Why play other S tier killers when you can shut your brain off and play an auto aim killer?
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@TieBreaker said:
I'm not in favour of removing any type of stacking. Having less creativity is not a good thing. If the devs want to address over-stacking buffs, then they should impose hard caps. Let players stack perks and add-ons, but place a limit on how high those buffs can go.
Although, I think the devs are trying to streamline the game by removing variety (stacking and map variants so far), so removing options might be the ultimate goal and not just a byproduct.
I agree, removing stacking in general - when the game advertises itself to allow synergy isn't a great move.
They hardly buffed any of the Haste related perks (you can argue that they're coming in future updates) - however, the line of reasoning that haste perks cannot stack when both survivors and killers bring these perks into the game for a meme or just to test out different builds aren't the play and just shifts more people into running meta perks.
People can argue that MFT+Hope is strong, while understanding that MFT+Hope only became a thing to counter Kaneki and not all the time did people run these perks as Hope is an endgame perk.
So, even with the update introducing a haste perk (Duty of Care, more situationally used and predominantly shines in end game) - it kills both creativity for both sides, while other combinations are way more problematic OR puts people into simply only having one haste perk when players in the past would have variety. It's not a good look to limit players on what they can and cannot use and then ignore the other Haste perks. Adding 1% of Dark Theory does nothing as it can be snuffed within milliseconds and the problem is the niche situations of being within chase of a boon.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911477#Comment_3911477
Probably because it takes time to figure things out, on both sides. This is why you shouldn't make changes too fast until people have had time to let things marinate and see how it goes
If people are consistently saying that the killer is problematic, the queue times are affected, hits are pretty blatantly misses (I've had a Kaneki try to aim for the person they're tunneling, mess up two lunges, and auto aim onto me, while still trying to tunnel out a survivor) - then it's quite apparent that the killer needs changes.
Additionally, their Iri Mask add-on needs definite changes as the Hens build is problematic for a multitude of different reasons.
A built in BBQ with screaming after Ultimate Weapon was problematic, yet Behavior creates an add-on that is built like that on demand on a killer who gets enraged quite often. It's damning how Behavior creates problems in their own game, want to penalize people for going next, and then create an absurdly overtuned killer, while wondering why or how people still want to proceed to GO next or kill themselves when versing this killer — it's preposterous.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905790#Comment_3905790
How about nerfing syringes to 24 seconds, which is the same time as a regular self-heal
Also why make it so a syringe takes as long as a normal heal? It should benefit the user, not make it so that it's the same heal time as someone using it.
Nothing wrong with syringes or styptics and they don't need any changes, especially as they are affected by anti-healing perks or simply hitting the survivor before they get the syringe off or waiting out the styptic.
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@ContentCreator said:
A mandatory skill check making these Dead Hard items slightly more risky shouldn't be this controversial lol
Nope, terrible idea. Why do I have to use a skill check to use a syringe or a styptic? Now you wanna make medkits like a BNP on a toolbox? What?
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905951#Comment_3905951
better idea for MOM, Search only once and keep the heal timer at a minute. That way your teammates dont necessarily make your perk useless
Yeah, that's the problem with perks like Moment of Glory and Hardened, too much busy work for little pay off.
It's crazy to me you have to unlock a chest AND rummage to get Moment of Glory.
Same with cleansing a totem and unlocking a chest for Hardened.
It makes the two perks far too situational to get value from, imo. Making it so you do one thing would be best as it would allow the survivor to go do the busywork and proceed to do gens. Too much offset cost of time for little value, I agree.
Edit: This is why I like Resilience, Overzealous, and Inner Strength as a nice combo.
Break a totem (you procc Overzealous and Inner Strength), so you do the gen faster (you could use Circle of Healing instead of Resi if you wanna boon) - when injured you get Resilience for a nice speed bonus. I love this combo, but obviously can't play it with Kaneki.
MoG and Hardened should be simplified like Overzealous, otherwise I will not use it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905956#Comment_3905956
I was asking how they knew PC had more players.
I somewhat agree with the OP. BHVR made a Killer too accessible instead of putting in proper controller settings
Yeah, I get it but I didn't want the conversation to veer off into a semantics argument.
Regardless of who is the majority, Behavior should make the game more accessible in general - not specifically tied to this niche example of a killer of Kaneki.
More button variety (it would be nice to have drop item button be different from interactions), Deception being on a different button prompt as you Deception and go into the next locker (surprised they didn't put that in when buffing Deception), better accessibility with certain killers and certain survivor perks as a whole.
Auto aim and hit scan isn't a core component of making it more accessible for console players and I hate that Behavior decided to make Kaneki a special exception but outright ignore community grievances for years.
No need for exceptions here and it's mind boggling to have such a killer be so oppressive with the Go Next mentality survivors already have — completely out of touch.
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@pocketsnas said:
Stop putting challenges to stun a killer And survive. I am so tired of getting tunneled out after ONE stun.
They should stop with the whole do x amount of times per match challenges. They should make challenges more universal and allow more versatility - especially with stuns being harder to achieve instead or committing a full build to stuns/flashes. I hope that's what they do when and if they rework the challenge system in the future.
So, instead of stun x number in a match - instead make it more accessible over the course of matches.
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@Langweilig said:
After repairing a Generator for at least 1 second, its Aura is highlighted to you in yellow.
- Pressing the second ability button (was entering a Locker) will instantly trigger a Loud Noise Notification for the Killer and a flash bang explosion at that generator (new).
Red Herring has a cool-down of 15 seconds.
What do you think?
I actually would not mind this, combine it with Quick and Quiet, Head On, and Blast Mine and it's quite nice.
Some good deception plays for sure, even if I don't use Head On.
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@BasementDweller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905830#Comment_3905830
Or its because a new killer just dropped so people are wanting to play said killer…
I mean this happens almost every time a dlc drops.
People say that there are more survivor players in the game, so if that was the case the incentive wouldn't be as high.
Like others have said, the release of Kaneki, their snowball potential, and the potential to tunnel is what makes the survivor que time go up.
It's fascinating because you'd think killers who have these long queue times wouldn't opt to end the game so fast, as they have to sit in 7-8 minute queue times, to end a game just as fast, and then be in the long queue time cycle.
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@Bodark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905930#Comment_3905930
If Hillbilly and Bubba hit you once, the ENTIRE chase is over.
Not an argument, completely different killers that have different things.
Also, Bubba and Hillbilly has counterplay - Kaneki does not.
Either remove the hit scan or remove the auto aim. Just because you're console doesn't mean the game needs to handhold you for aiming purposes.
Edit: who wants to respond rather than downvote?
Survivors get handheld according to these forums, but it's okay a killer to be handheld - make it make sense. 🤦🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️
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@MoZo said:
I honestly just want them to remove the pre activation condition of needing a heal first. To compensate for the huge buff I would increase the broken duration to 30 seconds from 20
What do you mean by pre-activation of needing a heal first? I think the perk is fine the way it is and increasing it to thirty seconds would be a net nerf as killers notice that you have Second Wind and will hit you down immediately or hit you to make you mend, rendering Second Wind more situational and useless.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905942#Comment_3905942
How do you know?
PS usually pulls the same or slightly less numbers than PC does on popular games.
Xbox usually pulls half or so.
Both games have been either free on PS+ (iirc) or free with GamePass for years. DBD is almost always in the best-selling tab on the Store on Xbox and on the Most Played tab in GamePass.
It is also on Switch, Xbox One, PS4, Xbox Series X/S and PS5. It is on a considerable number of systems. It would make far more sense if Console was the majority of players, not PC considering these facts.
So, again, where's the proof?
Consoles are more accessible, so without concrete evidence - along with the introduction of cross progression.
Even then the talking point is that console players should get an inherent advantage when that shouldn't be the case at all.
Behavior saying that they put autoaim on the character doesn't hold water when compared to other ranged killers and they don't hold the same lethality as a Kaneki.
So, using that point (not you, the above poster) holds no argument here. There are people who play Siege on console with no auto aim and are perfectly fine, putting auto aim on a hit scan character was a bad decision and them saying it's for console players accessibility means nothing if it's not applied to other ranged killers, not accessible to PC players, or outright removing it (what I would advocate for) - you should not have an advantage over your opponent because of your platform choices or an auto aim being built into the character - the semantics of player base and who is the majority doesn't matter.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905920#Comment_3905920
Ye clean break should go to 32 seconds and moment of glory should be instantaneous
Yeah, it needs something because waiting 60 seconds for a broken status effect to go away - sure you can pair it with Vigil (I wouldn't even use Clean Break here). It's just too situational to get value, should just be that you heal someone fully, hit the button to go broken, and lower the seconds it takes for a heal to pop off imo.
I haven't really used Moment of Glory as I think it's also situational.
I prefer more consistency in my builds or at least synergies, but not a bad idea regardless.
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@[Deleted User] said:
second wind has been losing value due to double heals on one survivor and it’s really hurting the usage of the perk. Am I really supposed to tell my teammates to hop off a heal just because I want to be selfish and get one use of second wind? Honestly the perk needs to include the full heal meter for a double heal because this in itself is problematic.
Double heals? You can just use We'll Make It with Second Wind for speedy heals and a fast way to earn Second Wind.
That's what I use on my Steve, just run that and it shouldn't really matter in hindsight.
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905743#Comment_3905743
The majority of DBD players are PC. I don't really know where that notion came from, lol.
Good catch, I didn't even notice that point lol.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Hey autoaim is nice for us playing on console, you know, the majority of the playerbase. It's great to have a strong killer that plays well on console
If that was the case, Behavior would have extended that to other ranged killers.
They wouldn't extend that to additionally include PC players.
Even if you think that's unfair, the same point applies. It takes no skill to auto aim on your opponent.
I have played FPS/TPS, Fortnite specifically and there is a reason why auto aim is not introduced in other games. Behavior announced potential KB&M enhancements I believe in the future, so why single out Kaneki here? Hm, I think money perhaps.
Like you, I'm on console and it's dreadful playing Huntress - where is her reticle and auto aim? Same for Deathslinger and Trickster, like lol.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The big strength of SWF is not communication, the big strength of SWF is to remove teammate RNG. I dont really know what people think what SWFs talk to during Discord Calls, but I can assure you that 99% of SWFs are not doing some tournament callouts. I have seen 4 mans not even talking about the game when playing with each other.
I dont think that DBD would exist without the ability to use Discord or other measurements of communication. Since a large part of playing with friends is to talk to each other. And the Devs also knew this in 2016, while the game might not be build around voice communication with the lack of information the game provides, even in 2016 the Devs were well aware that such programs exist.
Yeah, some people think we're outright doing top tournament callouts.
Even when I play SWF, I'm mostly joking around. I notice a perk, I call out said perk. I'm on a gen getting pushed off, I can call it out - sure. But I'm not doing specific clock callouts (I'm too lazy to learn and I like description callouts - so used to soloq lol).
The main strength of party chats and playing with friends is the dependency aspect. The other day before Kaneki released - I was playing with a Steam friend who added me because we were playing the same character and we had a good game.
Fast forward, I play with them again and we got consistent escapes (not all the time, but consistent enough to notice). Even without comms, as long as you have dependable people who do not opt to give up or choose to go second, your games will be better. You don't need comms to excel in this game, moreso dependable people who know what they're doing (why I like my soloq) - they're mostly dependable and have enough game sense to know what they're doing.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905922#Comment_3905922
The damage and mobility ranges should really be different, that's for sure. Probably should reduce the range at which he can inflict damage. Although, I think there should remain some degree of broadness in when it will count as a hit; Deathslinger is never trying to make a shot while moving at 22m/s, and none of the ranged killers have their power go on cooldown needing a complete reset if it doesn't get used immediately. It needs some concessions.
TBH, I think the problem with Wesker is that his vaults are oftentimes useless. It's not that Kaneki's are too strong with the whole Enraged thing, it's that Wesker's are too weak to the point it's mostly a weird trap to send yourself off a cliff.
No, I completely disagree here on the Wesker vaults. Similar to Kaneki, they have the mobility AND has counterplay. What I just described is counterplay to a Wesker vaulting the pallet, especially if you're injured. You vault the pallet back over (something I learned from playing against him on my own as he's stuck in the animation) - there is NO animation or concession with a Kaneki leading people to have to greed pallets or outright stunning him.
There needs to be counterplay for the killer, every killer has it, so saying that the vaulting is not an issue and that Wesker needs a buff in this regard is not it.
Edit: even if you are not implying Wesker's vaults are weak and need a buff, Kaneki still needs something to offer counterplay. As it stands right now, there is no counterplay unless you want to stealth around the map and do gens with Iron Will.
Why many of them opt for Blood Echo and aura reading - something needs to give with the killer and it's a shame on Behavior's development team to create an oppressive killer with little to no counterplay.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905915#Comment_3905915
Hmm. I think the mobility aspect of it is also a large part of why it's hitscan – both because of the latency considerations when moving at speed to get a second hit (not great feeling for anyone) but also for the sake of reusing mechanics between the movement and the survivor damaging. It makes sense in the context of the rest of the powerset design; if it wasn't hitscan then the feeling when it comes to mobility would be bad, and the consistency for am-I-injuring-or-grabbing-scenery-and-being-pulled-miles would get very bad…
The area for the hit detection is just exaggerated. I don't even think it's a true autoaim, it just hitscans a big old cylinder instead of a raw. Some degree of that would make sense (see injured survivor hitboxes for one reason why), it just needs to be… narrower.
The range of it is quite extreme, my comp friend told me that his range is 22 meters while Deathslinger's is 16 meters.
They just have so much in their kit and the auto aim helps them track and find people easier - they don't need to be auto aim if the other ranged killers are not auto aim. It lowers the skill required as it autolocks with the mouth on the survivor and because they can launch themselves ahead of you, you cannot create distance in enough time.
+ the vaulting that they do, even Wesker (someone that they are similar to) cannot vault and hit you right away. With Wesker, you can vault, they vault, and you can vault back over the pallet as counterplay?
Kaneki? Vaults extremely fast over the pallet and hits you right away, it's a joke.
Kaneki plays in a similar way to many mobility killers, but does it far better with no drawbacks.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441881/styptic-syringe-abuse
The thing is, syringes do exactly what moment of glory and clean break can in only 16 seconds, thats too short. If they made it close to the minute it takes for the perks, than it'd be a lot more fair.
Styptics already got nerfed in the past, only 5 seconds, which is balanced imo.
However, there needs to be an audio queue for killer and using survivor that a syringe or styptic was used, its si annoying to accidentally hit someone who popped a styptic when you couldn't even hear them
I still have no idea why they made it so that you have to fully heal and be tapped as a heal to make Clean Break go off.
Such a weak perk due to this. Being healed in 60 seconds is god awful as well, other than saving time from another survivor healing you. I'd never use the perk as a result.
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@SurvivorPudding said:
The biggest problem with the killer is its a hit scan shoot and not projectile like huntress deathslinger. This mean the moment you press the button the server counts the hit instead of it taking time to get to you and counting as a hit.
Yeah, it's wild that they made the excuse of making it a hit scan with auto aim for console players - but they don't make that same line of reasoning for other ranged killers.
You have the mouth on you for a millisecond and you transition behind the wall? It doesn't matter.
You get bit, you make distance a little, he cuts you off, you go down, you go on the hook, you get unhooked, they come back and tunnel you.
If aura reading is involved - copy and paste that onto other survivors without the tunneling. More and more I see they transition to Alien Instinct/BBQ with Blood Echo to counter Iron Will.
If not using Iron Will, they find you with aura reading if not using Distortion.
If not using either of those things and full on gen regression, it doesn't matter, just fling yourself around and let the auto aim do the work for you.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905886#Comment_3905886
I switched from Dramaturgy/Finesse to Made for This and WGLF (with Resilience and Deliverance). This worked out as well, mostly because of so many Ghouls.
When he is less popular there will be less MfTs as well. But I am also considering to use OTR instead of WGLF, just to get more consistent value and have something against tunneling. (Even tho, WGLF came in clutch in two games and my confirmation bias makes me want to keep running it, lol)
Yeah, WGLF is good.
I like Empathic as it's more universal healing, I might make that my fourth perk to trigger endurance hits!
I actually had a Blight DC against it (not this build in particular) - I healed the downed survivor with Empathic, triggered MFT endurance, and we all got out and he dced after multiple slugging.
Empathic /WGLF is nutty with MFT.
It's funny watching survivors come to me for heals.
Empathic Connection is super underrated.
It's a reverse Kindred (shows survivors where you are when injured, so they can see where you are during the hook phase), a stronger Better Together (because of the hud, they know what gens I'm working on), and it allows me to be as hands free as possible as the survivor has to come to me for heals. Super great perk, I'd recommend especially if soloq - even without soloq the healing in general is very nice.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905883#Comment_3905883
I mean, Quick Gambit stops being active once you are down anyway, since you are not chased anymore. I am also not really sure about the removal of the Cooldown. It would probably still not be good enough to be used very often, but it would punish bad Killer Characters more than it would punish strong Killer Characters. A Trapper would be more affected by it than a Nurse, even if both are really good players, simply because Nurse is so much stronger and therefore has shorter chases.
I think it is really difficult to balance the Perk, because something which might be alright against the Top Killers will be too good against the weaker Killers. And on the other hand, something which is held in place enough so that weak Killers dont have a huge problem with it is way worse against strong Killers. Just something which comes with DBD, the huge variety in Killers strength makes balancing difficult.
Yeah, true - I agree.
I think the initial hit is what weakens the perk for me, as Behavior has nerfed jungle gyms and more generalized changes in the game.
I think more perks are better than it in general as it's like you said ^ situational to other killers depending on what the killer is. What I mean is that it should just lose effect when you're down entirely, rather than when you lose a health state. I think the previous iteration was like that, but I could be wrong as they did change it prior.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
It really is no problem. It is currently decent because Ghoul puts the Survivor into Deep Wound with the first hit. And IMO you can rather question why exactly he has to inflict Deep Wound in the first place, this is just something extra which is not really needed…
But the Perk in itself is fine, most of the time you need to run at least one other Perk to put yourself into Deep Wound against most of the Killers and even then it is not guaranteed to get value out of it (e.g. OTR when the Killer is not tunneling or simply waiting out Dead Hard…).
Yeah, I've switched back to Off The Record and Sprint Burst simply because they're transitioning off of Ghoul since Made For This is situational.
At least with Off The Record I can trigger it especially if I get tunneled - which many Ghouls love to wait out endurance and Iron Will is used so much, so they do not care that you're silent when being off hook.
Edit: Made For This, Sprint Burst (for the initial speed / Ghouls love to try to bite you if they see you create distance), Off The Record (to prevent being tunneled and triggering Made For This), and whatever fourth perk you wanna run.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905686#Comment_3905686
Eh, the Perk is really not that good. From BHVRs Data we know that the average Chase Time per Survivor per Match is around 80 seconds or something like that. (for high MMR)
If we consider that a Survivor gets 3 Chases and cut this time in half (since Quick Gambit deactivates after losing a Health State), the Survivor provides 40 seconds of quick gambit. So if my math is correct, the Survivor with Quick Gambit provides a total reduction of Gen Time of 4,3 seconds per Survivor, so at max. around 13 seconds overall are saved.
This is not much.
Yeah, once they made it so you lose the perk when you get hit - I've not been a huge fan of the perk.
Eventually you will get hit, the perk goes on a long cooldown - it should just be entirely when you go down especially with so many anti-loop and mobility characters Behavior seems keen on making.
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I like the nod to Lucky Star, you have balls of steel for rocking No Mither. I could never in a million years. 😂 I still remember this time that a Feng Min was running to main of Shattered Square, I was behind the door frame with IW, and the Kaneki flung himself into the door frame to cut off Feng Min, and he was mere centimeters away from me.
Iron Will is very great against him, along with Lucky Star as you deny them sound that they mostly rely on along with aura reading.
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@WolfePhD said:
I have Deja Vu from Wesker’s release. I am happy that BHVR has released a killer that people want to play. But yes, I would like to play against other killers, too. 🙂
I feel I am performing community service by queuing up as Naughty Bear Trapper in these desperate times.
I was so happy to see a Hillbilly on Forgotten Ruins.
Even was able to have nice chases with the guy without any exhaustion.
It's uncanny in a way to go play DBD and actually see other killers, but I don't mind as I've typically adapted to Kaneki. My last match (so far) was against a Nemesis on Midwich and I wasn't even mad about it at all - 4 man out on soloq. It was a nice point to leave on for me, but I appreciate you as Naughty Bear Trapper. 🫡
Crazy how people are getting upset about potential Kaneki nerfs ^ the fact that people are having to shift towards more stealth playstyles to circumvent his tunneling is an issue in and of itself - but it'll be a while for Behavior to nerf him, he is their money cow currently.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904978#Comment_3904978
Yeah, tons of aura reading for sure, but I swear almost every one I've seen has been running infectious fright.*
Expected to see people experimenting, but not much variety in builds at all. They must all be watching the same content creators, lol
*To be clear I'm exaggerating a bit, but I'd say an easy 8 of 10 Ghouls I've faced were running it.
Many I find love to use FTTE or the iri add-on I think(?) where they hook a survivor and everyone screams and reveals their aura.
It's such a dumb and overplayed mechanic and enforces survivors to have to resort to using lockers (prevent FTTE snowball if you can get away from the initial scream) or then have to resort to a locker after every hook to prevent being screamed in general.
That or run Calm Spirit, who'd have guess Calm Spirit would rise in popularity in 2025 DBD Bingo.
Makes no sense for a killer so oppressive and can traverse maps with ease.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904135#Comment_3904135
I wouldn't say his mobility is the best, definitely weaker than Blight.
Actually I think Ghoul is just another version of Blight.
In between loops, everything he does, Blight can do it better, as he can directly down you with its power.
In looping, IMO it's even harder to use his power than Blight, mainly because and you can't really control your travel distance at will. It's extremely clunky to the point where it's almost up to chance where you'll land with your power. I don't think I have catch anyone with it yet. Though I agree the vaulting is quite good, similar to Houndmaster in a sense.
So the counterplay to Ghoul is actually pretty similar to Blight. Do your best to loop the tiles, and run behind the obstacles when running between tiles.
Personally I think the only OP aspect about him is the first hit injury. It's extremely strong as we know, so I don't think they'll keep it TBH. The cancel thing can stay, as it requires a lot of skill to pull it off.
It's his map traversal and questionable hits that are the issue. You can't run OTR due to his potential to tunnel and snowball. I guarantee more people will use DS, but even if you use DS - what can do you do? A four second stun and he catches up to you regardless to tunnel you out, lol.
@dayflare which is funny because I've seen people on Reddit talk about how it's hard for BP gains with Kaneki, lol.
@danielmaster87 not so simple to run back to the gen to go do the gen unless you're running a full stealth build. What type of killer, if any will spot you and allow you full control to go back to the gen? People need to reset and heal and stop with the notion of this is Legion 2.0 - the killer is more of a hybrid of Blight and Wesker (map mobility, potential to punish you if you have no resources) - best thing to do is slap on Iron Will, do gens, get healed if you can (if you're playing soloq), predrop pallets between you and Kaneki (treat him like Wesker), hold w breaking LOS, and run away from hook as he will rush back to get tunneled. I honestly would advocate other survivors to stop healing at hook unless you're running Resurgence or the other person has anti-tunneling perks like BT, Babysitter, or We'll Make It.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
I still feel he's unfair. He can camp a hook from across the board. I have not found any valid counter. O changed my build and MFT with any exhausted perk will do but you again you shouldn't have to carry a perk to counter a killer like this. There really is no looping unless you find a place he can't Spiderman to. Three jumps and he's across a board with no cool down.
I feel he is great against SWFs yes however soloq is getting stomped and a lot of low to mid players stopped playing.
Also to note a lot of players in soloq are just defeated right now. They are just giving up against any killer.
Also that argument about Magneto is invalid, you can't compare and people just didn't play the game.
I just hold w against them and just continue predropping the pallet towards them.
The pallet helps to prevent them from instantly downing you, yes they can vault over it but it creates space between you and Kaneki.
I think Quick and Quiet, Lightweight, and even Fixated are great towards him. I lost him so many times on indoor maps when switching to these types of builds - outdoor maps are trickier, but that's why I choose to use Iron Will and get healed so I'm not one tap - I do gens when I know I can't feasibly get healed because I'm not gonna run around trying to find a teammate to heal me.
I actually preferred playing with soloq than my SWF team, LOL.
When I went to play with soloq, granted I was playing very late at night (6-7 am), so people started to transition to stealth builds making it easier for me to deal with Kaneki. I think a very big problem is the fact that he shuts down exhaustion when biting - but regardless I think another issue is people being highly dependent on DH. I hardly saw people DC or kill themselves - but I go play with a non-stacked SWF? People kill themselves and don't even try.
I was playing with my SWF yesterday and I got tired of the backseat gaming they would do, yet still rely on DH even if Kaneki renders it useless (you're mending most of the time anyways) unless you're pairing it with MFT.
Distortion is quite versatile as I was able to do stuff against a Nurse without an exhaustion perk as she had NTH and couldn't find me when kicking the gen - you have to stealth against Kaneki or else you're just going to be hunted all game.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
He's definitely a "play injured" killer like Legion. He can't really do a huge amount to you once you're injured, it's just regular looping at that point.
I really don't understand the complaints of him being OP. I've been dealing with him fine.
I'm responding to people so much, but I completely disagree here.
Yes, if you have Iron Will and you're playing stealthy - 100% it's doable, but at the same time if you are not healing and you're caught in the open - it's hard to him to get off of you.
You're injured, Kaneki finds you, you're back on hook as you have to lean into stealth against this killer anyways. Outdoor maps allow them to traverse freely and find people by simply jumping around.
It's good to heal if you're already hooked, no point in staying injured all game as yes, they will leap to you, but they will immediately shut you down as you're one tap all game due to not healing.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
This killer is more fun to face than Wraith and huntress so it's a win to me!
I honestly would rather face any other killer than The Ghoul. I even joked with my friends earlier that I'd take a Pinhead any day of the week. 😂
I got a Huntress yesterday and the server crashed, load into another game, I get Kaneki again. ☠️
I think I've gotten the hang of it and my build is versatile against other killers anyways, I also just BNP one gen, and use my toolbox on the other. I couldn't use a medkit with a syringe at all yesterday due to him traversing back to hook to tunnel.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904111#Comment_3904111
He would still have possibly the best map mobility in the entire game, plus free injuries, plus the ability to close the distance instantly regardless of how far a survivor ran. He completely nullifies most exhaustion perks since, they're all based around making distance with the exception of Head On and Background Player. He doesn't care about Sprint Burst, he doesn't care about Lithe, he completely shuts down Overcome, he eliminates the distance aspect of successful Dead Hards.
He'll still force survivors to have to play tiles instead of trying to buy time by holding W, which is something most killers, even good ones, struggle with. And that's a good thing, since pre-dropping and holding W is probably one of the most boring and frustrating things to play against in the game.
He can even still use power to vault windows quickly and even vault downed pallets, which is situationally useful.
The only thing he would no longer be able to do is glide past you to the tile you're trying to run to so you can try to loop him, cancel power, and then M1 you. That's what puts him over the edge, in my opinion. It eliminates the only counterplay he actually has. At the moment, unless two tiles are directly next to each other, the moment the pallet goes down, he wins the chase. The survivor will not make it to another loop.
I've also noticed when I said I used Off The Record earlier - many and I mean many Kaneki will tunnel off rip. As soon as that notification goes off, many will traverse right back to hook as it's quite easy to tunnel - as Kaneki eats through endurance anyways.
It's made me completely remove OTR from my builds after seeing people (and I) getting tunneled, hence my shift to Iron Will.
I actually do not mind my build at all! But I can see the complaints and I would absolutely rank him amongst the best in the game due to the snowball effect, map traversal, shutting down loops by jumping and cutting you off, negating exhaustion, etc.
I've been getting more survivors playing with MFT, Iron Will, DH, and even some odd Urban Evasions here and there lol.
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Yeah, after more time playing against them.
They get very questionable hits, I'm talking the survivor will be fully behind walls, boulders, I've seen people get hit while falling down on the Toba vault.
Like the poster above me, @Zakon05 I had to completely remove exhaustion from my builds. I was doing good with Sprint Burst at first, but the more I played and experimented against them - he would completely shut down my Lithe. You'd Lithe, make some distance, they'd spam to bite you, and you lose distance on your Lithe as you're stuck in the bite animation.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kaneki has the best mobility to move from one side of the map to the other - I still think indoors maps, especially Lery's is good against him as it's great for hiding, breaking LOS, and prevents him from seeing you all the time (without aura reading).
I think the build I have settled on when going against him is Distortion (many have Lethal Pursuer, BBQ, or FTTE), Empathetic Connection (I've been playing soloq and it allows survivors to not sandbag me and get heals), Iron Will (for more stealthy plays and risk taking), and Made For This (obviously to help myself in chase when I get in the mending state). They still get questionable hits and my post from earlier was still early on, but the hits that they get they should not be hitting realistically. Additionally, you get no time to react if Kaneki injures you, vaults over a pallet, and hits you immediately after.
I suspect more stealth oriented builds will come out, along with Kaneki using Genetic Limits or Mindbreaker to prevent MFT (perhaps).
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I don't know, I've been rocking Made For This and Off The Record and I've only died like one time out of the five times I've played against him.
It seems he's harder to play on indoor maps (I've beat him twice on Midwich) and died on Forgotten Ruins (only because a random kept sandbagging the hook every time she was in chase).
He's not really that oppressive that I find, but I am running a build that directly counters him and gives me speed (both in chase and when I'm potentially getting tunneled).
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902743#Comment_3902743
To hide the direction the killer is running off to.
Then what's the point of Kindred? When a killer can walk a few steps to get out of the aura reading?
It used to work as intended years ago, they caused it to have a bug, and refuse to fix it as it was originally intended.
Many people opt for mobility killers, rendering Kindred useless due to the lack of information soloq needs as most people who use the perk are solo, so let's punish them by obscuring the killer in a bubble? Because the killer needs stealth to go somewhere else lol?
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@Wezqu said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9QLJVLVRTB47/20250331195840-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6WRQ0RCDSPNT/20250331195612-1.jpg
Seems quite much thicker to me, but they could up it a little bit.
Wish it still stacked, I don't know why they removed that aspect towards it lol.
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@buggybug said:
I agree with all you said except eyrie being survivor sided. Ever since they shrunk and alter it I fail to see how people think it's survivor sided + the gens being so close and easy to 3 gen. All the annoying pot holes, very little windows and ofc most the garbage pallets I fail to see how but its probably just a me only problem. I hate the map ever since they changed it. Hope the new one will be better.
It's still quite survivor sided.
The tiles are easy to loop through, main building is strong, along with shack existing.
The only primary issue is the gen spawns, which are mostly centered towards middle near the tombs. It's still heavily sided towards survivor, I would still prefer a Garden of Joy but Eyrie is quite strong if you know the tiles of the map.
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@CLHL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902602#Comment_3902602
It is also pretty common to find SWF teams disconnected or giving up because they didn't get the map they wanted or because one of their friends died so fast they decide to end the match so he doesn't have to wait for them.
Penalties should have been tightened long ago, but instead they decided to introduce bots, justifying it to some extent.
And you introduce longer queue times and more people will not queue up as it takes matches even longer to process with the MMR skilled matchmaking we have.
Sure, there are some SWF that do that but never have I seen that from both playing soloQ (I can tell when people are SWF with the ___ <3 ____ names) or in my own SWF when I SWF.
People DC for many reasons, but muddling the conversation with very specific niche reasons when it more than likely boils down to the fact that Behavior has done nothing to remedy issues (the main cause).
I'll burn a map offering, someone brings a Sac Ward, I don't DC.
I play with a friend, they die (let's say I duo), I don't DC or kill myself.
I come across a killer I don't like, I play regardless but doesn't change the fact that the game has shifted to one side causing people to DC or quit once they recognize the game is dead. That's when most DCs that I experience occur when it's back to back snowballing or when gens aren't being completed.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902674#Comment_3902674
Really? Trapper is so op that players quit? i don't buy it, I was scratch mirror Myers on autohaven and people still quit at the start.
What does that have to do with what the original poster said?
Mentioning Trapper, who is amongst the lowest tier of killer doesn't change the fact that a combination of burnout and the multitude of 6.1.0 buffs, nerfing maps, getting rid of fog, having maps brighter, and introducing terrible jungle gyms on already weak maps, such as Coldwind doesn't change the fact that people proceed to "go next" due to Behavior's decision making.
Toss in Distortion nerfs (ruining stealth playstyles, encouraging chase playstyles to be baseline to survivors + the aforementioned map nerfs) make survivors DC or kill themselves on hook to prevent eating a penalty. Behavior has been doing questionable nerfs for a while now, especially with them proceeding to not listen to feedback regarding gen spawn logic, the above ^, and the Wake Up nerf that they did not listen to.
Once the changes of the surrender comes into the picture where you have to have everyone downed to surrender will be more frustrating - as Behavior time and time again has outright ignored feedback causing the game to be what it is today.
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@For_The_People said:
Best is subjective to the person’s play style so though probably a bit left field, for me it’s For The People. Cannot count how many times it has come in clutch.
I'm a terrible looper but I will take chase to take grief off of others when the time arises, but quite often if someone has taken a long chase and they finally go down, I love seeing their reaction in SoloQ when they get a second wind through FTP.
Do you For The People when unhooking or simply when the killer comes and you FTP?
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Kindred + Open Handed, especially for solo queue. The amount of information given is definitely worth both perk slots.
For killer, I'd say Grim Embrace. Works really well for stalling out gen progression, especially against survivors that spread out over multiple gens. Though it works best if you don't plan on tunneling someone.
Alternately, Corrupt Intervention is great as well.Yeah, ever since they had the bubble obscure the killer I don't really use it all that much.
I love it with Kindred + Open Handed because of the value you get from the combination and it's quite handy for others - as it prepares them for a chase and allows them to have aura reading in chase too.
I still would say Deja Vu is the best perk, Sprint Burst is second, and Lithe is third for me personally. I feel naked in soloq or SWF if Deja Vu isn't equipped due to the horrendous gen spawns.