CLHL
CLHL
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- CLHL
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Worst DBD year by far, they are even losing the license that gave them the boost they needed.
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The complaints are legitimate, but you can't change something without addressing the underlying problem that causes it. What they have proposed is to punish the killer, ignoring the obvious difference between playing The Trapper and The Nurse... and that's not the way make things work. I mean, you want an anti-slug system but you add zero changes to The Twins? You can't force the way killers play with such disparities.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030191#Comment_4030191
Generator charges increased from 65 to 70
Generator charges increased from 70 to 80
Generator charges increased from 80 to 90
Toolboxes nerfed multiple times
Stacking repair penalty introduced for multiple survivors on the same gen
Stacking repair penalty increased
Great skill check bonus halved
Reduced gen kicking interaction time
Doubled immediate regression from kicking gens
Requirement to repair 5% to stop regressing gens
Prove Thyself nerfed to give a smaller bonus to coop repair
Survivors spawning together to make spreading out on gens early more difficult
"NONE in all the game lifespan to address gen rushing" btw
Just create new objetives at this point. To begin with, generators were never fun for either side. The game needs to reinvent itself, starting with eliminating tedious tasks and mantain the only interaction: chases.
The changes to slugging and camping never had any future, anyone with half a brain knew it was unrealistic. But they have already entered a vicious cycle of appeasing the whiners, from which they are unlikely to escape. That first slugging and camping PTB was probably the biggest mistake in the history of DBD and may have initiated an inevitable decline of the game.
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Because there is a problem with player reduction, and they are obsessed with the idea that the solution is to artificially increase their victories. They fail to understand that fun goes beyond winning or losing, while the interactivity is steadily declining, making the gameplay more repetitive, boring, and frustrating.
Just take 2v8, for example. No one wants to play survivor in that mode because it's boring. Their solution? Make it so easy to repair that in the vast majority of matches you don't get a single chase despite having two killers.
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@The_Count said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026230#Comment_4026230
You're being downvoted by these exact survs who want to escape by gen rushing and refusing to get better at chase.
Great take man :)Well, the usual. Saying that the survivor role has a steep learning curve is not meant to be offensive. I consider myself a fairly mediocre survivor, and I have a 50% escape rate, which I could easily boost by being less altruistic in the endgame, where most of my deaths take place.
I really think there's a problem with having a single 10-second chase and still being able to win the match. To me, that doesn't feel like a victory.
The game needs to redefine its objectives, and by that I don't mean "blood gens", which were the same doll with a cheap new hat.
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The biggest problem with the game is that being a good survivor requires a lot of practice and a high level of knowledge of the game. But we don't have decent tutorials or adequate practice modes to reach that level.
The developers have been mitigating this situation for years thanks to the genrush, which allows players with limited skills to escape from games where they don't last 10 seconds in chase. Those survivors would probably never escape if the game were truly balanced. It's not that we need new objectives, the objective needs to be completely reworked into something that isn't a race against time, the pace of the matches must be slowed down and move toward something more interactive between both sides.
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I predicted it in the last PTB, the situation was going to turn into a ping-pong match between both sides, with none ever getting satisfied. I got around 20 negative votes, if I remember correctly, and here we are, with no one satisfied with the new PTB.
No matter what changes they make, the message they sent is self-destructive. The mere fact of trying to punish one side for the way they play dug the game's grave and accelerated its downfall.
And all for trying to please the noise. Balance is always achieved by aiming for the highest level, no matter how much you pretend this to be a party game. If there is a problem with new players and their learning curve, that is what should have been addressed with the highest priority, by creating useful tutorials and more practice options.
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Funny enough, they claimed Franklin's Demise was changed so it gets used more, even though we all know the real reason (the stupid Fog Vials). The same old nonsense, but it never hurts to remember it.
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Well, the whole objetive is not skill-based anymore. It's hard to talk about balance when the core fails.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
To be honest, a few aspects could be adjusted, but referring to measures like the anti-face-camping system as “hand-holding” for survivors is rather cringeworthy.
It really is. There was more coordination to unhook someone when hook grabs were a thing. Now everyone is afraid of hearing a terror radious from a killer that is 20 meters away. They only have succeeded in creating worse players.
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@The_Count said:
I just want something minimal like morse signal saying they'll kill gen rush (make so anything that speed up gens don't stack and rework skill checks) and bully squads. Is that too much to ask?
The former is also the number 1 reason killers turbo tunnel. Two stupid strategies that go hand to hand with each other.Genrush will never disappear; they are perfectly aware that it's the only thing that allows the vast majority of players to achieve a win as survivor. If the game was more skill-oriented, the kill rate would skyrocket.
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The devs sent the message that leaving a match is okay, and here is the result.
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They aim for the short matches, so the result is that either side steamrolls the other. The game currently is basically a lobby waiting simulator, you almost wait as much as you play.
Fortunately, the free skins have dropped so much in quality that you no longer feel the urge to log in to complete the daily missions.
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They could start by eliminating random generation. It really doesn't do anything but cause problems. It was fine when there were only a few maps, but that's no longer the case. If the maps were always the same, it would be easier to fix the strong and weak areas.
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As if constant bugs and hitting invisible walls weren't enough to describe this killer experience as terrible. Give me another negative vote and call me rude if you want, but that won't change the fact that they're the least played killer for obvious reasons.
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There is no reason to play this killer, it's full of bugs, the gameplay is boring, and to top it all off they included “no fun allowed” invisible walls on all maps to prevent Victor from sniping.
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The killer is poorly designed since it revolves around playing downed pallets, since it can't break them. If the vault is slow, it will never catch up to the survivor, but if it's too fast, there is no counterplay. One would say “Well, you have to find the perfect middle ground.” Well, there is no such thing, because every loop is different. No mather the numbers, a straight corridor after a pallet will always be a win for the killer, and a close doble vault will always be a win for the survivor. This killer will either be strong or go straight to the pit; there is no middle ground.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002057#Comment_4002057
"The situation" isn't even necessarily a low escape rate. It's a lack of agency and fun.
Even if they gave us bazookas that didn't make us win more, at least we'd have something to do other than hold M1…
Not really, just ask yourself who has fun with the tools currently available for to survivors. SWF will have the time of their lives, that's for sure, but the average survivor will end up on the ground before they can aim their bazookas.
The game certainly lacks interactivity, but it is this lack that gives most players even a chance... which is rather sad. The objectives themselves encourage this behavior, and the lack of any tutorial for what is actually useful in a match only exacerbates the problem.
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You could give bazookas to the survivors and the situation wouldn't change one bit. The main problem is that the average survivor is terrible, because the game never teaches you how to improve or anything useful. This must be one of the few games where you can invest thousands of hours without learning anything at all. No change in the game will turn you into that player who loops the killer for several gens.
If survivors were forced to take an active part in the match and there were no escapes where you repair a couple of gens and walk out the gates without even seeing the killer, there would be many survivors who would absolutely never win. The only difference between SoloQ and SWF is that you don't choose who you play with, so it's quite likely that you'll end up with bad players, since they're the vast majority. And as I said, you can give them bazookas, but it won't change anything.
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The changes weren't well thought out enough for a game with more than 40 killers. It's not enough to just change a few numbers here and there; it's absolutely essential to go back to the drawing board. Releasing an update where only 4 killers would be playable was a much worse decision.
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It was obvious that this would happen; I predicted it from the start. The changes were too radical, completely ignoring the limitations of each killer. They created unrealistic expectations among survivors who basically just wanted an advantage.
A double backlash, and totally deserved in my opinion. I think it's fine that they want to fix the problems with their game, but you always have to keep in mind the impact of those changes you're introducing. If you're going to change the way your game is played, moving a few numbers up and down is not enough.
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The main problem is that they have completely ignored the fact that there are more than 40 killers in their game and that each one has a particular gameplay style. The difference between Trapper and Nurse is huge, a 5% difference in haste after a hook doesn't solve that disparity. If you tighten the rules, obviously all you're achieving is widening this gap. Before considering any system that redefines the rules of the game, they should seriously start balancing all the killers, no more random low tier killers nerfs, the gap needs to be closed. Any change that ignores this problem is doomed to failure.
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I completely agree with you. The game is 1v4, but intrinsically it's 1v1, where three players are relegated to performing boring and non-interactive tasks. The objectives are completely outdated.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996991#Comment_3996991
Testing out some ideas that didn't even go live shouldn't lose you your livelihood.
That's how the world works. If you're a waiter and you keep dropping trays, you'll get fired.
Just look at the forum right now. It's burning with discontent from the survivors. And all because of a problem that they themselves created by proposing radical changes without considering all the possible consequences. This whole PTB has been one giant case of negligence.
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Trying to implement these changes while ignoring the peculiarities of 40 killers was bound to fail completely. I'm afraid many people won't like this, and the backlash is already inevitable and deserved for proposing something like this without considering all the possible consequences.
The game has been self-balanced around tunneling since its inception. You can't expect only 4 killers to be viable overnight. If you announce a perk overhaul and the first thing you read in the patch notes is nerf after nerf to the perks that slow down the match, you're obviously not being realistic with your proposal. Because the pace of the game is the biggest concern for both sides, the survivors don't want to lose in a matter of minutes, but neither do the killers.
This should result in someone getting fired, but we know that won't happen until it's too late.
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With a bit of luck, there will be more "ex-devs" following the consequences of this update going live.
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@Callahan9116 said:
This is a mess. Half the killers shouldn't be kicking gens much anyway.basekit BBQ does nothing because now everyone will expect it. DMS is bad now, really bad. Increase the gen damage option to 12 or bring back 3 genning. These numbers are terrible.
Most killers lack the mobility to kick gens efficiently. Hag with that haste, that is just a little better than the one you get with Devour Hope but you don't even notice it's there, can't just go to the other side of the map to kick a gen.
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Antigen nerf… Yeah, that would help spreading hooks lol
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992157#Comment_3992157
To be fair, I get accused of being a killer main constantly when I barely play the role due to tracking issues. I just focus on the game overall more than my personal experience alone, even though I wish the game didn't try as hard to exclude someone with issues like myself from half of it. I get what you mean considering the pattern, but I don't think that means he's doing some kind of double agent posting or something. It tends to be pretty obvious when people are being disingenuous.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992166#Comment_3992166
That said, again, the "demands" were concerning completely different elements than the ones that were changed. The item was designed poorly to begin with by focusing on introducing an accessibility issue, but charges don't matter if a single use can completely ruin a game, and the opacity is the last thing to adjust because its the primary point of the item. Their reaction isn't about giving into demands, its about realizing they messed up and trying to appease the players in a way that saves face. They still haven't even addressed normalizing the effect between variables like different maps, something everyone agrees should be adjusted before touching opacity. If they gave into demands, the item would be removed and all BP would be refunded, because the current form is arguably worse than not existing for survivors.
My intention was not to accuse him of anything, but it becomes very confusing when I have seen him argue against console players from having aim-assist on the Singularity, defending Made For This on release, or not show a single complaint about survivor perks that have been in a bugged or game breaking state for months. I mean, he mostly play as a killer, he suffers through all that but never has nothing to say. While, on the other hand, he has long discussions throughout the forum defending the concerns of survivors. It's just weird, and even extremely annoying.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992138#Comment_3992138
I mean, isn't that exactly what happened to Fog Vials?
I don't remember the killers doing stupid things such as abandoning the match because someone used a Fog Vial. Anyway, are you really comparing removing infinite uses from an item (that were never justified) to rendering a large part of the killer roster unusable?
I know you claim to be a killer main based on your comments, but I don't remember seen you give in to their concerns a single time, quite the opposite.
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So, if the killers throw a tantrum now, changes should be made to please them?
I think we all agree that tunneling needed to be addressed, slugging is more debatable in my opionion because you can tell that is up to survivor to help each other, but from there to introducing such drastic changes that will have a profound impact on part of the roster is a stretch. Some killers are going to become unplayable, those "buffs" after a hook doesn't help them at all… What can a Hag do with an aura reading on the other side of the map? How can she stop now an unhooked survivor from triggering all her traps? If the slugging meter is cumulative, won't all survivors get up before Charlotte arrives to take them? These, and many other situations, were not considered.
I can think of better ideas than introducing these underlying rules and active punishments. They already have the cages that transport the survivors to a location unknown to the Killer; they could have applied this for the hooks. Punishing players for how they play is not good game design; it is, in fact, a confirmation of the failure of their design.
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@Vishlumbra said:
It’s getting funny but not funny for players who actually strive to get better.
I mean, adding an option to remove all this bs in private matches proves they realize that in the hands of good players, no killer has any possibility. It’s just comical how they refuse to play their own game.
These changes would completely kill the competitive scene, just when they have started to sponsor it. Why offer the option to disable these changes specifically?I t's a clear sign that they are fully aware of the imbalance it will create. We have to deal with the rulebook while the pro players play as dirty as the can? How hypocritical of them.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454971/baseline-bbq-is-op
gets in locker after pick up
Are you a wizard?
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Seeing an aura on the other side of the map will really help killers such as Hag, I would say it practically equates her to a Nurse. It's not like you're going to use the locker now that you know for 100% that your aura is being watched, hahaha.
The changes for the killers to keep up to these changes should be bloody drastic if they want to continue with this, and I don't mean the usual extra 3% in certain areas. I don't think they realize the mess they've created. There's going to be controversy even if they tone down these changes.
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I find it incredible that after all these years of the same discussion, they haven't done something as basic as giving the twins the ability to switch positions, so that Charlotte can hook whoever Victor takes down without having to cross the entire map. The solutions to all of this killer's problems have always been that simple, but here we are they telling us: “Just add it to the list of unplayable killers and wait.” It's no surprise that there are practically no mains for this killer; they're basically telling you to stop playing.
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I've never agreed so much with a tier list, congratulations.
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In most matches there is already one survivor dead by the sixth hook, even if the killer is not tunneling.
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Low effort. It was a dash or a teleport…
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Some changes make zero sense, like the anti-slugging promoting slugging by crawling away at extra speed so the killer doesn't found you. Free Tenacity because… we need more free perks.
Oh, and that note on Clown… we asker for reverting the changes, not for that. The problem you created is going to persist, keeping this gameplay for Clown is pure stubbornness.
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He is OK, but the fact that his axe has one of the worst hitboxes in the game doesn't help much; it can fall directly on a survivor's head without damaging them or be thrown at point-blank distance and miss. I'm not asking for him to throw tree logs like Huntress, but at least make it work if hits visually.
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As usual, they are unable to accept their mistake. No one likes Clown's new "gamplay" or wants adjustments for it; the changes must be reverted, stop wasting resources and time on killers that are totally fine. Can't you see you created a problem out of nowhere? Just because someone told you "Well, I don't like Hindered"…
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I just gave up, servers keep failing when you have been waiting for 10 minutes or more.
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Hmm, for how long has Vigil allowed Head On to be chained infinitely? And not a single comment from the devs about fixing it despite creating lose-lose situations. Hell, we are currently in a instant healing meta that should have been nerfed inmediatly. Not to mention how many perks with unreasonable numbers are being overlooked, but will actually become a problem as soon as a crazy combo is found.
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Corrupt Intervention would become ineffective as soon as it was present in all matches, tactics such as camping it out would begin to be used more. The same thing happened with survivors spawning together; now they deliberately split up at the start and end up being more productive than before. A better solution would be to make repairing at the start of the game extremely slower, at least until the first chase begins.
I would add base-kit Monstrous Shrine, but for all hooks and not only the white ones. Gens before friends is more concerning than ever, last-minute rescues have become too common. This perk only works when the killer isn't camping and punishes rushing, so it would be a healthy addition.
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Regression perks have been a placebo for quite some time now, most of them have no impact when it comes to turning a game around; they only help making a one sided victory even more so. Part of the blame is in the current instant-healing meta. Survivors no longer spend time on anything else than repairing. They rescue at the last second, heal instantly, and they are back at repairing. Their efficiency far exceeds any type of regression in the game.
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I can't say for sure, but I often watch his streams and his suggestions are pretty close.
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@Nazzzak said:
I think this is why they have paid consultants, some of whom are content creators who play the game for a living. The problem is i don't think they listen to said consultants much lol
Actually, some of the most disastrous changes we had recently come from proposals made by these consultants. Those updates for Xenomorph and Knight that had to be scrapped were promoted by one of them long before they took place, same for Clown.
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More resources wasted on tweaking an idea that doesn't work instead of reverting the changes.
I am quite sure that the changes suggested on Twitter by a certain consultant will be implemented. And I predict that they will not be good, since noone (survivor or killer) enjoys this new "gameplay".
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It doesn't matter if the item isn't used or if it's weak compared to others; no item should have unlimited uses.
Let's say you have 3 chases in a match, and thanks to the Fog Vial, you managed to escape twice. You've already achieved 5 chases in that match, what more do you want?
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Still one more than it should be, but at least it's no longer infinite.