CLHL
CLHL
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- CLHL
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Just today, I played against an invisible survivor and another one who started self-healing while he was intangible… And those are the ones who don't even bother to hide it. This is probably the only games where a cheater is allowed to directly kidnap you until you DC and nothing is done about it for years.
The situation is even more absurd when a large proportion of players inject items and skins into their accounts, causing BHVR to lose money, and it is seen as the most normal thing.
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This can be easily solved by giving away the game on Epic Store again.
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Charges should be limited like any other item, this disparity makes no sense; should always have been this way.
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Hotfix in August? Let’s be realistic, it’s not going to happen. You probably don't remember when they went on Christmas holidays, leaving the game in a terrible state.
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This forum reaches hilarious limits with topics like this one, where the use of bugs is defended with the existence of other bugs... Us vs. Them taken to the extreme.
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Haste builds for the Clown were already a thing before and were just as oppressive as now, believe it or not. The problem isn't the builds themselves, but how they are played. Planning how to use your yellow bottles is not the same as throwing them at your feet.
I myself was in favor of removing stacking (and not just for haste), but I argued that it should only be done with perks, so that the Clown, among others killers that have haste as part of their powers, could still take value from those perks.
The Clown didn't need any changes to make him user-friendly, because he was already easy to use. These changes are clearly motivated by someone who hates Hindered effect, wanting to replace it with Haste without having the slightest idea of how powerful it already was.
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They have destroyed his expression of skill in all aspects, even if he wasn't the most demanding killer.
Does anyone remember when the Clown used to throw a bottle to a tree or the ceiling to expand the area of the gas? Well, he can't anymore, because it has been incredibly reduced.
Does anyone remember when the Clown used the yellow bottle at point-blank range to hit you and immediately recover? Well, he can't anymore, because it would give haste to the survivor and he doesn't need to prepare such a situation after the changes.
Does anyone remenber when the Clown used to combine both bottles in a long loop to mindgame? Well, the same thing.
The changes are clearly made by someone who either doesn't understand anything about the killer or deeply hated his gameplay. Throwing bottles at his feet, that's the genuine expression of skill.
Not even when Chucky became a power spamming machine they caused such a disaster. And the worst part is that they never corrected that mistake and continued to work around this “rework” until he became a killer that no one wanted to play.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974604#Comment_3974604
Yes, that seems to be the case, my friend. I really doubt Clown will stay like this for a long time.
The question is, will they revert the changes or just nerf the yellow bottle? Because they usually refuse to accept their mistakes, it's unbelievable that these changes passed the PTB with the bad reception they got.
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Sometimes it bugs only with certain survivors, you can still enter chase with the others.
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The previous buff to the yellow bottles already made them somewhat overturned, people not knowing how to use them correctly is irrelevant. The only thing they achieved by nerfing one bottle to improve the other is to force the Clown to be played with the brain turned off. The skill expression has been reduced, he is overal weaker and more boring to play as, and even worse to face because extreme haste effects are annoying. What is the purpose of spamming one color or the other? At least it used to make sense to use both bottles.
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All this you comment on is a consequence of the fact that they have no intention of people learning to play their game. The killers continue to kill according to their statistics and they will surely continue to do so, since the average player is terrible. They are keeping their stats in a contrived way, they don't even care if the game is no fun for anyone.
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-1 count for the killers. Literally no reason to keep playing the Clown.
And the Fog Vials are so bugged that they can totally cancel chase for the rest of the match, so no bloodlust. Good luck to any M1 killer, because the chances for them to killswitch the new survivor's toy are between zero and none.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969903#Comment_3969903
I think in order to make that work and retain a cohesive, quality tutorial design that allows players to learn at their own pace, they'd need to have like 4ish categories of tutorials (generators, altruism, chases, side objectives as an example lineup) and have the tile practice thing be in the 2nd/3rd sub-category in the chase category (sub category examples being beginner, intermediate, advanced, etc). Just deciding how to implement the tutorials in the menus by itself is a lot of work, and then there's a whole mountain range worth of work deciding what to include (and when), how to best communicate ideas to the player, how to include/program it all mechanically (this alone is its own mini mountain range if they want to go really in depth with it), and futureproofing it all so that they stay relevant to the game experience in the long term.
Like "just put the looping tutorial in the videogame" is a fine idea on paper. The problem is work that has to be done to get to that point (from concept to execution) with a level of quality befitting the game (or more importantly, to the level where it's an effective teaching tool to new players and not an overwhelming burden on them) would take an insane amount of time and resources.
Who knows, maybe they're actively working on it right now.
Obviously it takes work, but my point is that other games have shown that good tutorials have a lot to contribute, they are able to keep an audience that would otherwise be overwhelmed by the game.
I consider that DBD has reached a point where there is a very big learning gap, it's not something that can be solved by watching tutorials online like some other games. You need to put things into practice and at your own pace, so a normal match is not the right place to do it.
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Everyone saw combos in fighting games as an alien or nerd thing until it was standardized that every game has to include combo challenges. Now anyone can understand and learn them by practice. Moreover, games like Street Fighter 6, contain dedicated tutorials for each characters, telling you what makes each one unique, how to perform anti-airs or the situations for each one of their commands...
DBD could have the same thing, introduce the most used structures as the killer shack, TL, 3-line or jungle gym and make you loop through them in the optimal direction with a killer bot chasing you. Being able to repeat instantly, until you get to loop it perfectly. I don't think it's a crazy thing to implement. Currently, the only way to practice these things is a private game with a friend.
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So, are we getting free Deerstalker so noone is left unintentionally on the floor? No need to answer, I already know we are not.
More secondary chances, just what we needed, because "Fun=Win" even if you did nothing for the win. No, the survivor role is not going to become magically fun by achieving a undeserved comeback from an already lost game.
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Playing the survivor role is no longer fun. It's something that has been happening since the beginning of the year and even before. The pace of the games has become so fast that you either die asap or escape with virtually no interaction at all. The devs thought: "Well, if the matches are short the bad players have a chance to escape".
The focus on something as basic as winning and losing is what is driving this game into decline. If I do nothing but hit skillcheck, I can't say I have “played” at all, so there is no fun in it and I won't even enter the queue for that. Now during the 2v8 we will have again those games in which you repair 3 gens and escape... Where is the fun in that? Of course I will be playing killer instead.
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The Xenomorph is the genuine antikiller experience, everything about this killer is annoying and unsatisfactory.
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He needs buffs and he is underplayed. How many Clowns do you meet in 100 games? Maybe one or two? But don't worry, more Ghouls and Blights for everyone. It's easier to have 2 killers under control than 40.
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Calling nerf to prevent you from leaving a match, this forum never ceases to amaze me. The distribution of upvotes and downvotes throughout the thread makes it extra hilarious.
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The pace of the game makes the survivor role currently boring for someone experienced. Good loopers are playing more killer because currently no killer gives you chase as soon as they find out you are any good. That leaves rushers playing mostly survivor, regardless their skill level, creating long queues for the killer and boring matches.
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And you forgot to mention the free escape that any coordinated team has. You enter a door, a second survivor steps in front to body block and the survivor you were chasing can now be anywhere on the map, creating a situation even worse than the portals on the D&D map.
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According to them it is a buff and the change was made so the perk is used more. I don't know why, but something tells me it's not going to happen.
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The solution is easy. The survivors should lose BP by staying near the gates, just as the killer loses BP by staying near the hook. Either you escape or you stay at a distance with a certain risk.
Giving up should never be an option.
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The yellow bottles was already over-buffed last time and is in a better than good position, pretty crazy with some lunge and haste perk combinations. If the average player doesn't use them, it's their problem for not using the Clown at his 100% potential. They shouldn't try to force yellow bottles with more buffs (although premature activation is actually a nerf) and nerfs to the purple bottle. And to top it off, they nerf him even further with addons.
Dracula's wolf was buffed because it was garbage. Now that it's good, even if there are those who prefer not to use it, there's no need to nerf his other two forms to boost the wolf usage. Let everyone play as they please.
In short, the yellow bottle was already better than the purple one.
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Just keep trying and deal with it. There is no "catch up mechanic" when the scoreboard shows a huge lead, but the game is still played till the end.
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The objectives are outdated and are no indication of the skill of the players. Escaping doesn't make you a better survivor and killing a lot doesn't make you a better killer. Balancing the game based on that data leads to nothing.
A sample of this can be 2v8, where the escape rate was high. You repaired 3 generators, didn't have a single chase with the killers and you escaped... outplayed, right?
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As someone who plays the Clown a lot and uses both bottles, having the yellow bottles activate faster is detrimental for him. The activation time prevent the survivor from accidentally gaining haste.
And no need to say that the nerf to the purple bottles is totally random and unnecessary. To try to get one of the bottles to be used more, you are hurting those who already use both. Those who didn't play around the yellow bottles will simply play something else.
This logic is as absurd as pretending to make people use more Freddy's pallets by nerfing his snares.
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The survivor role is much more complicated and requires learning things that the game doesn't teach you, so you can accumulate hours of gameplay without really improving anything.
As a killer, you depend only on yourself and you just have to chase the survivors. Depending on your power you will have more or less tools, but everything is summed up in taking advantage of their mistakes.
The big difference is when you meet a really good survivor, which probably are not many, but they do exist. It is then when, due to the lack of mistakes on their part, you understand the impotence of the killer role. Can you win those matches? Sure, you ignore the good one and focus on the other survivors, but that's not going to make you a better killer than that survivor.
You can't expect the game to be balanced around mediocrity. In any case, the learning gap needs to be improved so that it is not so huge.
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People are not aware of the immense difference between an ordinary survivor and a good one. It's not the same to chase someone who runs into walls, never looks back and doesn't use the resources at his disposal, as compared to someone who knows what he's doing.
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The economy is completely broken, there are those who can afford to bring iridiscent addons in all their matches. But at the same time the grind for new players to get the basic perks is insane.
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When doing nothing but gens gets you 40K guaranteed BP per match, you do gens.
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So, DC in voting screen is about to become a mayor problem. Are they really not able to see it coming?
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What would prevent us from bringing the best in slot to each match?
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Perks should not stack with each other, but they should stack with powers (such as Clown's tonic bottle). That was the only thing they should have changed, but instead they left some unjustified buffs and added new ones later... All this, having previously recognized that haste staking was a problem, which makes no sense. Well, actually this was all a curtain raiser to introduce Orela's new perk, which is going unnoticed despite being absolutely broken.
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So you can cheat the system and propagate your agenda? Now that we have the go-next prevention system the killrate has dropped, which is already a sign that the "problem" was just a tantrum.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951901#Comment_3951901
It's not about "being efficient" you actively get punished with less BP for rushing games by tunneling and slugging. People just only care about the "win" and until BHVR does something about that nothing will change.
I don't think they care when I see multiple iridescent addons per match. The economy is currently broken.
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Unfortunately, that's how this game is played and it's not going to change because it's all about being efficient. And it's not just the killers, I got rushed so badly in my first few matches that I already decided to save all my cakes for another time.
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These killers should get into bloodlust faster, so a simple rock is not abused against them to get guaranteed time. Since many open field loops became taller, they have lost potential. They are forced to endless loop in situations where no mindgame is possible, because they are too slow and a mistake trying something could lead to extremely extend the chase.
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I totally agree. In fact, that stagnation is what I currently hate the most about the game, I feel like everything bad about it emanates from the same source: the current objetives. I understand that it's complicated to create new objetives, but I don't feel that they are trying either. Even the modifiers always boil down to the same gens vs. hooks.
As a survivor I want to do more than just sit in a skill-check simulator waiting for my turn to be chased. And as a Killer I want something more interesting than worrying about the match not ending in a few minutes.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949612#Comment_3949612
Out of curiosity, how would you go about dealing with the problematic strategies of tunnelling and excessive slugging while encouraging killers to actually play efficient by spreading pressure?
It's a tricky situation to fix in my view because the pieces are already there. You can't blanket buff killers because their tools and the benefits from using those tools are already good- how do you push players towards using them in addition to nerfing the egregious stuff? It's not a problem I know how to solve personally.
I already talked about it in another topic, I don't think it has a solution. The current objetives need to change, gens vs hooks is simply outdated.
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In the past they have already increased tunneling many times by implementing systems that penalize the killer without thinking about the consequences. They will do the same thing again, and as expected the consequences will be dire. Slugging is likely to become meta again, and when it gets adressed too, killers won't stop wanting to win by any means necessary. Because telling killers not to be efficient is like asking them to give up.
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If tunnel goes wrong it can actually make you lost pretty fast.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948854#Comment_3948854
I think that making generators be fueled as well as repaired would go a long way. Make it take 60 charges of repair and 30 charges of fuel to finish a gen. Put the "fuel pump" right smack dab in the middle of the map. It would force survivors to be more interactive with the killer, as well, by making a high value area right in the middle of the map. It would also slow down generators without adding in a bunch of "hold m1" time.
But that wouldn't change the underlying problem, it's still a battle against the clock. If I want to gain an advantage or recover from an unfavorable start, I resort to tunneling.
Nowdays I clearly enjoy the most those matches against 4 trolls who try to laugh at the killer but don't repair. I deal a lot of hits, they have some laughs trying to pull their stuff and everyone is happy whoever wins.
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Even with nerfs to the repair speed, as long as the objective is a battle against the clock, the situation will not change.
It's about time to start thinking about removing generators from the game, they are not fun and never were. Performing skillchecks is a pitiful gameplay and totally lacking in interaction. I don't know what other objective could be introduced, but the current one has clearly lasted longer than it should.
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I haven't seen a single survivor with crows in all the hours I've played since the patch, neither as a survivor nor as killer.
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Fortunately the bots use the security office a lot, and it's a matter of time. For Vecna's, either you got lucky at the release of the DLC or you can forget about getting it.
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It's not going to go away unless the game objectives change completely. As long as this is a battle against the clock, there will be tunneling.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946394#Comment_3946394
How are bots such a terrible addition?
It's better to have at least something after a DC, instead of just one less player, is it not?
There shouldn't have to be a DC to begin with. Bots only prolong an inevitable outcome, wasting everyone's time. They have been used to justify unsportsmanlike conduct and blame the opponent for it.
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Thanks bots, worst addition to the game to date. You could blame the killer for a tantrum of your teammates, after all, there was a bot waiting on the bench that probably played better than them.