CautionaryMary
CautionaryMary
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929796#Comment_3929796
those are actually some interesting picks that don't seem to have much of anything in common
Lmao, well yeah - I enjoy Trapper as I typically do gen regression on him, along with grassy map offerings as he shines on those maps.
Onryo for her ability to teleport on demand and continue with gen regression - to me, she's a stronger Dredge by definition.
Doctor for his ability to maintain gen pressure and shut loops down. I did mention that I had hundreds of hours, I don't really find killer to play as fun for me - but again, that's just me. Those are the killers I found fun to play as, as you did ask me for my favorites. People can have favorites that excel at different things. - you know what all three have in common? The ability to shut down loops. Trapper does that with his traps, Onryo does that with her demanifestation/manifestation, and Doctor does that with shocks, so yes sir.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929790#Comment_3929790
who actually is your favorite killer to play?
I'm gonna be honest and say I haven't played killer in a while, but of the ones I have played...
My first killer I got into was Wraith and then I started to struggle a bit as I climbed in MMR.
So, I started shifting towards Onryo, Trapper, and Doctor. I liked Nemesis and even Skull Merchant (I haven't played her in a while though).
I typically played a whole bunch of killers, but I would say who I excel with the best is the initial three, but I am not a killer main or someone who has invested thousands of hours into the role (at best, it is hundreds). Dredge was super fun to play, he's quite simple with my build that I had for him - LP gives information to go to a certain place, downs are easy from what I experienced with him (indoor maps are his strengths), and BBQ gives information to teleport to a locker to continue pressure with Pop and the eventual down. He's probably in my top ten for sure, maybe top five if I'm being honest -- just not my favorite.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929784#Comment_3929784
i adept every character I get before I do anything else
I cannot get the Huntress or Demogorgon one months ago, lmfao.
I did try to adept most of them, but I actually enjoyed Dredge. He's not my favorite character to play, but he is fun to play.
He's not strong, you can bait out the teleport and force Dredge to lose distance. Dredge takes a lot of timing and knowing when to pull up the power versus brute forcing for a down. He's not obscenely a hard character to play, but he's not the easiest to play imaginable. When I did play him, I typically opted for aura reading (LP + BBQ) with two slowdowns (Pop + Pain Res). So, my Dredge playstyle was more information based, spreading gen pressure, and not a typical hit and run playstyle.
Only character I "hit and run" as was Legion (obviously due to their power).
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@lettuchia said:
Remove him. He's fundamentally flawed by taking bare minimum skill to play and encouraged to hit and run
... I don't know why you think Dredge of all killers require bare minimum of a skill level to play.
I didn't think I'd see someone thinking Dredge is a strong killer and when I have played Dredge (I even adepted him) - I did not play hit and run Dredge.
I'm on mobile, dang - I do like the tagged person's addition. It would help with the fact that sometimes lockers are not near gens that you need to teleport to, and it is on theme for Dredge as you know, chests are locked and/or open. It gives more viability to Dredge, albeit basement's chest would be utterly useless of course. Regardless, this is a good simple change.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/445597/killer-bans
other games are different in terms of bans. The way queues and matchmaking works atm makes killer bans impossible to implement
Exactly, I was going to mention how these would heavily affect queue times. I wouldn't warrant character bans at all, as most would opt to ban killers with high mobility or Legion (2v8 and people do not like mending) -- I don't mind Legion.
On the topic, I don't mind any of the killer roster. If you asked me a month or two ago (whenever Kaneki came out), I'd have said Kaneki but now that they have gotten nerfs - I do not mind them. I think killers all have their pros and cons, along with counterplay, so I wouldn't ban any of them even though Wesker, Billy, Blight, and Kaneki are probably ones I don't care for versing but still find enjoyment in playing against them in some ways as I know how to counter them. 😊
I know some survivors hate Singularity, but again I don't mind Singu.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929709#Comment_3929709
Yeah, the overlap between Maps and Keys is a problem. I'd make it so Maps can track Objects only (aside the Bloodsense Map tracking injured survivors) and leave player auras to Keys.
I would like to add some very unique add-ons to Maps, that would allow them to create a second objective with a reward (for example, I would adore an add-on that creates a Glyph once all gens are done, and the one who has the map can interact with it, gaining about 40 Iri Shards). This would further distinguish them from Maps.
Hm, it's interesting but I think that it just needs a little oomph to make survivors have to think about using them.
All the items in the game have the ability to alter the match.
Medkits allow the user to heal themselves or heal others faster.
Toolboxes obviously take permanent chunks (if used with a Brand New Part) or significant progress on said generator.
Flashlights are using to obscure the killer's view at loops, flashlight saves, and other miscellaneous things.
Keys are used to find the hatch and have wayyyyy too many tracking that warrants maps useless, hence the overlap that is not necessary. If anything, we can say that keys should be for killer tracking (like the Blood Amber) and maps should be for more cooperative playstyles.
As it stands, maps are not usable for experienced players with thousands of hours (like myself) - experienced players know where gen spawns are, they know where totems are, so it needs a secondary effect in play and even take the key add-ons off the key and place them onto the map.
I find it odd that the key item is used for tracking, when we already have a tracking tool such as the map. I hope that they rework the keys into something else entirely in all honesty, it would solve a lot of issues with the map itself.
Edit: I also think Behavior would never allow any item to give us shards, but that's just me taking in consideration that they are a business at the end of the day! I liked the idea regardless.
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@Flawless_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929722#Comment_3929722
Doesn't that speak more to a design flaw than anything else? I just want to play a fun and exciting match that feels like it could go either way. This isn’t about sadistically forcing people to play a game they can’t win. My gripe is with how things are going, where the moment the killer gets more than two hooks before a gen pops, everyone just gives up because after one person choses to go next, everyone understands that's game so in a way one person's decision affects the whole match. So are killers just there to keep the other side entertained? And if that’s not the case, why can’t I, as killer, dip out once three gens pop after a long chase? Like if I want, I could slug three and leave one alive so they keep trading hooks till I get 10 or 11 but that's not what I'm advocating for.
The abandon feature only kicks in play when all survivors are slugged on the ground or when no one has touched a generator in ten minutes.
There are killer players who objectively choose to slug to undermine and abuse the method, but again - this is a minority view. Just like the idea that survivors are throwing themselves at you to go next, I do not see it happen for it to be abused on a large scale.
Without the abandon feature, your argument that the killer is there for entertainment can be used on its head the other way around. - before the abandon feature, killers would down survivors and bleed them out for four minutes. Killers would do unsavory behavior, just like survivors do unsavory behavior. Three gens popping during a single chase does not mean the game is over, the game is still doable - regardless, at some point if the chase is going that long, the killer should have long abandoned and went for an easier target.
These things are not comparable as the killer can and will control the dynamic of a match, they are the power role after all and have the ability to do what I just described in the above.
I don't know the types of games that you have and I'm not minimizing them, but they are not all games in essence. Some survivors, yes -- especially burnt out ones will go and kill themselves, throw themselves at the killer, or whatever game ending things you think of; they are not the majority.
When I play survivor and in a hypothetical situation like that ^ Pain Res, Grim Embrace, PGTW, and Corrupt as examples and gens do not pop or people go on the hook, I do not have my randoms or I go run up to the killer and just give up, maybe it's my MMR - but I do not see that behavior in my games.
What you described is not a reason for abandon to be seen as a "bail out" card. Without it, are survivors supposed to be there as entertainment for the killer to slug all the survivors and force the last into a mori mechanic and waste the user's time? Because that's how most games were before the mechanic was introduced and many people were complaining about the mechanic as it caused more drawn out games.
Edit: if you want that to be an abandon mechanic, you are free to think so, but games can be taken back the less gens are up as they're more defendable for a killer. - survivor starts strong at the beginning, while the longer the game goes on it starts going into the killer's favor.
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@Flawless_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929632#Comment_3929632
Exactly! The way it's being abused by entitled players who bail the moment things don’t go their way; If that’s allowed, if the argument is not really slugging but has shifted to not forcing people to play…why tf do the devs not let the killer quit too?
I personally don't really like the idea for either side, cause I think that opens the door to more entitlement. Like, where do we draw the line on what counts as an “unwinnable” situation?
Eventually if the trend continues, most matches won’t even reach the endgame. That’s why, even if letting people move on seems harmless, it gradually kills what little sportsmanship is left in the community and hurts the game long-term.So, in your situation of fighting fire with fire and downing the people who have done things to you - what is the goal of this situation? Have all 2-3 survivors bleed out for four minutes and then what?
What do you hope to accomplish by this type of playstyle? When I come across unsavory things as a survivor or killer, I just play normally, and the game ends.
What do you want in the situation of survivors utilizing perks or tactics and make the game more of a hassle for you as a killer? Do you want them to just stay on the hook and attempt to kill themselves, taking attempts, and you downing them to slug them longer and/or put them back on the hook? Do you want to juggle and pick them up continually and bounce them like a basketball? Do you want to shift back and forth on their body or stare menacingly at them from a distance? All of these things prolong a dead game, so why not end the game and move onto the next one? What is your objective and end game here?
You are wanting to prolong a game, for survivors to reach the end of the game of a hassle for you, slugging/hooking them or whatever transpired, and you want them to reach the end game chat to say ggs to you when we both know that will not be what's shared in the chat at all. What is your fixation on needing people in end game chat to socialize with when most of the PC chat is the odd ggs, salty edgy things, or nothing exchanged at all as people typically leave when they die?
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@Emeal said:
Smoke bombs sound fun
Maps should have a fold out animation and provide default crystal bead to other survivors just around you.
Yeah, smoke bombs would be fun to play with! They're more situational I find in 2v8, but I'd love to see them in the regular gamemode like they were for Haunted By Daylight!
Edit: I do think they should be an item! We need more items in the game and I'd hate for it to be slapped on like a perk.
@SoGo , I think the main problem with maps is the overlap with tracking with keys! I don't know how I'd change keys, but due to the fact that keys track things often collide with maps as a whole.
I feel like maps need another factor to make people use them more, hence my suggestions. I am open to viewpoints on those things, I'm not dead set on them but I do feel like the soloq portion would help with soloq, especially as most of the playerbase is that. I'd use the map with my healing builds as I mostly play soloq on my end. 🥲
We've all seen the grievances of soloq and I think either of them would be great to have. I liked the BloodSense maps because it would prevent me from accidentally sandbagging someone in chase or find other survivors to heal and I'll be sad once I use them up for sure.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929597#Comment_3929597
For the record, I wasn't talking about moris or humping on the ground. I was talking about teams where they just go AFK or run directly at me after one of their teammates dies with 1 or 2 gens left. They were happy to play when they could shove their WGLF / DS / OTR in my face, when they had lots of god pallets, and when they could contest every hook threatening a flashlight save or a pallet stun save, but as soon as I started winning oh they don't want to play anymore. I had to eat through all their stupid BS just to get in a position to win and I want to play the game through to the end
Oh yes, I agree and I do not disagree with that notion that survivors bring strong things and have unsavory tactics. I was just speaking on my behalf of the abandon feature and my views on it.
In that situation, yes - it does suck having to eat all of these perks like WGLF, DS, OTR, DH, etc and I do empathize with you there as someone who has played against annoying survivors.
However, at that point - you have won. You killed one of the annoying SWF members, they all run up to you, and force you to down them or slug them and they all abandon. You can continue onto a whole new game, hopefully with survivors who do not partake in said behavior. - I don't know, I don't understand the whole — survivor team did something bad to me, I kill one off early, and now I have to punish them by slugging and then forcing them to watch my mori.
I prefer efficient match to match gameplay, rather than drawn out games to be petty to one another. I've had killers do specific things to me and I do not take it out onto the next killer and just think of each game as its own thing and I hardly partake in the behavior you described above.
Edit: allowing this feature typically for how I view it is to streamline the process, we already see how people complain about killer queue times. The abandon features allows these long drawn out games to finish, so other players can go back into the queue. For me, I have faster queue times, so I objectively see this as a bonus.
Even when I played killer, I hardly messed with the mori option as I don't want to sit around as a survivor hits skill checks, I'd rather hook, and move onto the next game personally speaking.
I understand being tilted at the game and I have been tilted as playing killer, but I really try not to keep the game going longer if needed. I could queue into another game and potentially have a better time as killer and survivor with the abandon feature as it is. So, as a killer or survivor, I do not exhibit petty behavior and I do not take it out onto others.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929593#Comment_3929593
I feel like it's the equivalent of the posts asking for an abandon button once the gates are powered. The killer at THAT point could want the game to be over and feel it is pointless to finish. Currently, just about EVERY match anymore ends with bots if the killer wins. The function was meant to avoid bleedout scenarios but is being used WAY more than that.
The "abandon" feature wasn't simply used for bleed out functions.
It's used primarily when all the survivors are downed or in scenarios where there is no common solution to progress the game forward.
Most of the time when I see abandons, they're mostly to speed along the process of the game ending especially when a survivor is eliminated early, a survivor kills themselves on hook, or everyone is slugged with many gens up and no pressure being applied.
I haven't seen survivors who directly run up to the killer and purposely throw the game, sure - there might be some who inherently throw the game and use this as a method to "go next". Most of the time that I abandon are times where I'm downed due to slugging for the fourth or somehow the team throws or the killer slugs everyone prompting the "abandon" function to begin with. It's entitled behavior to think that the other party should sit there and wait for the third to die to get moried when the person can simply go into the next game, rather being in a game and having to play the waiting game to be moried or crawl away to prevent being moried (what survivors did before these changes).
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@Dustin said:
If tomes are getting retired eventually could we just like tuck them away in the options menu or something to be accessed? Even if it's just to read the lore entries and watch the cutscenes in the tomes?
The new system is miles better I won't argue that. I just don't want to see all the available challenges, possible BP and lore go away along with the cutscenes.
I find that I play the game less in all honesty.
With the old challenge system, I would grind away trying to finish specific challenges but with the new dailies - they're a lot more easier to go through and finish.
I will miss the old rewards, but having to slog through page after page and having challenges that inherently threw the game wasn't it either. I also find myself not getting as burnt out over the game, but that's because I just play for the dailies. I think once I get to the end, I'll probably play even less due to how much of a slog Dead By Daylight feels like.
I'm glad you're enjoying the new rewards system, I don't mind as it allows me to play other games in the meantime as the old system had a lot more grind to it, I feel.
I do think they should give more rifts the more you level up, it would potentially make me play more, but I'm enjoying the new daily system even if I feel burnt out over the game at times.
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@Lixadonna said:
Killers need their validation. Here and in game. All this really sounds like is Killer Role needs their Win spelled out to them in big letters.
Yeah, without the abandon feature it's just a waiting simulator.
Five minutes for the last survivor to die, you're actively humped on the ground, and then moried for the thousandth time.
But no, the survivor needs to socialize and have ggs with the killer instead of queuing into another match.
It's like people fighting with thin air, without recognizing how horrific the queues were before this change but no... They need to have the survivors in the game being humped, moried, and forced to sit through it unless they want to DC. I've seen a streamer (I will not name them) who held a streamer hostage for over thirty minutes as they went back and forth downing their SWF teammate (saying they were cheating for SWFing) and kept prolonging the game.
The streamer went to play something else due to how boring that feedback loop is, I'll take the abandon feature any day.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
I kind of feel where OP is coming from. With 1v4 being extra sweaty right now I'm getting a lot of SWFs. They're happy to play when they have all the god pallets, all their second chances, and they get 2 - 3 gens done right away but as soon as I start snowballing and winning they just give up and go next
If people decide to abandon a match, whether SWF or solo - it does not matter. I am glad that they implemented the "abandon" feature, I no longer have to sit and put my controller on my coffee table as I wait for the killer to mori me or hump my body. I still message ggs to the killer if the game was close or played in a respectable manner.
Sure, as @Flawless_ feels that they can no longer message ggs to PC people - look at it from a perspective that you're going against console players. Advocating that people stick around to send ggs to each other, along with the vitriolic end game chat that PC people engage with doesn't change the fact that the abandon feature is one of the best changes Behavior has done. I am no longer wasting time going from match to match and survivor queues have been fast due to its changes.
You can abandon like the survivors (once or if they changed the whole you lose when surrendering if they changed it) or you can go mori and hook the downed survivors. It does not feel rewarding to wait around for 5 minutes as the last survivor hits their skill checks or bleeds out like it did before abandoning. I'm glad that Behavior doesn't allow time being wasted on either side, as it pushes for more seamless matchmaking in the future.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929536#Comment_3929536
I feel like the following changes to Shrouds would be great:
Shroud of Separation:
- Now an Ultra Rare (or Visceral if you want to go with the "new" name) Survivor offering
Shroud of Binding/Union:
- Removed, as they will be basekit.
(New Very Rare Killer offering) Stitched Shroud:
- Spawns all 4 survivors in the Main Building, if there is one.
Nice, I like that change! I think it would definitely help with the Shroud offerings to keep them in the game. Vigo's Shroud can be the same, but I wonder about the distance from the killer. -- again, it can be a fixed distance.
@Langweilig , either way they need to be stronger individually, which is my main point.
They're filler content that we're forced to get and will continue to sit in people's inventory unused. They should have stronger individual effects and directly say in the description that they do not stack anymore. There are still killer players who think the hook stacking still exists, which is not true. Behavior needs to re-edit the descriptions for these offerings and offer more clarity to users on these offerings. - like A_T_E stated, another change would be to allow us to see each other's loadouts and offerings would suffice - but editing the descriptions offers both survivors and killers to know they do not stack any longer.
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@Langweilig said:
I didn‘t know that fog offerings don‘t stack. How am I supposed to know that?! After googleing it says they only stack until you reach the value of the purple offering. Why can‘t I get more fog!?
The oak offerings are stacking according to what I read on google. My problem with oak offerings always was not the minor effect, but that some maps have fixed hook spawns, which are not affected the offering at all. Raccoon city for example has so many non moveable hooks, which makes bringing the offering pointless.
Yeah map offerings can just get deleted. What is the point of having a 20% higher chance. Does that even do anything?
Shroud offerings I‘m certain will change next update. They will probably just reverse the effects. Instead of spawning you next to your teammates they will spawn you alone.
I've read and heard from others that these do not stack anymore.
It used to have the line that it stacks, but Behavior removed the line. A few months ago, my full SWF used multiple fog offerings, but the in-game visuals remain unchanged -- suggesting the stacking effect was entirely removed.
Unless Behavior explicitly confirms otherwise, the logical conclusion is that stacking has been removed, just like with fog offerings.
That's why I argue that they need to be reworked or retired, they do not alter the game at all as it once did. It's why many survivors and killers typically use bloodpoint offerings, hatch offerings, or map offerings as these all directly alter the game in some capacity.
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@SoGo said:
Most of these should be adressed sooner rather than later.
Fog offerings are pretty redundant on most maps (with some like Eyrie being an outlier funnily enough), since the fog changes. I feel like their effects should be amplified by a bit, or be allowed to stack to a certain point.
The Oak offerings are pretty useless, mainly the killer ones since hooks are everywhere. Petrified Oak can be effective in certain maps and when stacked, but by itself it's pretty bad. I just thought of an extra effect they could have, that being increasing/decreasing the time needed for a broken hook to respawn.
Map offerings losing their power is a good thing. I don't want them to be outright removed tho.
Shrouds should get a rework, I agree.
Yeah, I understand the Shroud of Binding being a survivor offering as Behavior's ideal at the beginning was a hide and seek game.
However, the game has evolved and many higher experienced players know to space out and do separate gens. Making Shroud of Separation a survivor offering — especially with the changes to survivor spawns would be a smarter alternative.
This gives survivors a point of counterplay. Lethal Pursuer is one of the most used perks, and with the spawn change, it will become even stronger. Making a counterplay Shroud of Separation more valuable.
It could be a fixed point of distance too. This ensures survivors spawn at a reasonable fixed distance, rather than being placed on the four edges of the map, which often leads to unfair chases right at the start.
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@A_T_E said:
Losing stackability
I have a great idea for the changes to these offerings you mention.
Let Victims see each other's selected offerings in the pre-game lobby.
(Hell, Victims should be able to see each other's selected perks, too, to prevent overlap of non-stacking perks, but one thing at a time here.)
If Victims could see each other's offerings in the pre-game lobby, it means they could better coordinate offerings, so 2-3 don't bring Petrified Oak, but instead one brings fog, another oak, while the third and fourth bring a different map offering each (just a scenario off the top of my head).
Yes, I agree that survivors should be able to see each other's perk loadouts. However, Behavior has said that they do not see it on their foreplan to implement at this time.
For offerings, the same issue applies — they don't stack anymore, which means their impact needs to be strong individually. Right now, many offering add-ons feel like filler, making them functionally useless in most matches.
For offerings add-ons to actually matter, they should introduce meaningful effects, rather than just small incremental changes that barely affect gameplay, which warrants reworks or outright retiring. They clutter the bloodweb and Behavior needs to rework or retire them outright.
Edit: since offerings no longer stack, it's a stronger case that they need to be reworked (stronger individual effects) or retired (reducing bloodweb clutter). Right now, many of them serve no meaningful purpose other than arbitrarily making people buy them and not use them.
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@XDgamer018 said:
we might need a healing speed cap now. someone got unhooked and just got insta healed…. and there was nothing i as an m1 killer could do about it
Why are we trying to introduce caps on all things now? Do we just want survivors and killers to run one specific perk in each category and dictate how others should play?
More and more, I see synergy lost, and if Behavior wants to make people commit to different types of perks - they need to have better perks for both killers and survivors.
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@Bubbly_Cuds said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921855#Comment_3921855
The problem is you don't need to cluster up. You can just run by somebody, and they get even more vigil for 15 seconds, doesn't even have to be close too, Tier 2 Myers Terror Radius is the furthest you can be, and then run off and do another gen, and the effect is already stacking and making the reduction even faster
These seem to be more situationally and idealized conditions, no?
You don't need to cluster up permanently, but you still need to be in a certain radius for it to activate — which isn't always the best.
When a survivor uses Vigil, they aren't using it to benefit the team as a whole — it's useful for the user itself, unless you're in a coordinated SWF that all use exhaustion perks which isn't the norm. Most people play SoloQ and Vigil doesn't affect others without exhaustion.
It does linger, but only for a little and it's not good for survivors to cluster and group up in general - it's good to be separated and pressure different parts of the map. That's why Vigil is used predominantly for themselves, not for others.
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@SoGo said:
I do agree it needs to stop stacking.
Leader, a very rarely run Dwight perk, has a condition that only one instance of it can apply on a survivor. Vigil should be the same.
If anything, would you argue that Leader would need a buff -- no? It's barely used.
@Cassiopeiae , I agree with Cass' point. I don't really see Vigil a whole lot in my games - I have used it before on specific builds but you need to be around survivors to utilize the effect. It's not something where it's map wide and yes, Vigil does counter status effects like a FTTE. However, people typically use it to regain (let's say a Sprint Burst) — you want to avoid clustering together as survivor, so the Vigil status effect to others isn't as detrimental as only players near you gets the value and not everyone runs exhaustion to get the effect.
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@CrypticGirl said:
I'm just curious what Sac Ward will do once the map offerings get nerfed. A mere 20% chance to get sent to a particular map (and we won't even know when the offering is played anymore) hardly seems like anything to worry about. I think Sac Wards would need an entirely different function…
I think Sac Wards, the bottled mist, and even the petrified oaks all are incredibly outdated.
The bottled mist does nothing (it doesn't stack anymore), the oaks (doesn't stack anymore), and the Sac Wards will be noticeably weaker as again, map offerings won't be 100% to go to a map anymore.
I usually use BP offerings anyways, but I feel like those three offerings should either be reworked or just removed.
The oaks do not do much, the mist doesn't do much, and the Sac Wards will be useless after the map rework.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920696#Comment_3920696
Shoulder The Burden obviously mitigates tunneling by giving an extra hook state to the person you were trying to tunnel. You realize that tunneling with 3 hooks is barely viable, especially since people can come in for body blocks or are free to rush gens unpressured at any time. I know tunneling is still too much for casuals (because they're not playing competitively, let alone doing gens or playing smart), but against good survivors, that's how matches go. Now imagine what they could do with 4 hook states. And that takes away a hook states from 1 person to do, but does that really hurt the survivors? No, because you need another hook to kill the person you were tunneling (1 more use of OTR/DH), or if you want to go for the unhooker instead, now you're spreading hooks which isn't viable. I forget that STB even has the Exposed negative to the survivor, because it always happens across the map, and the timer is so short you'll never get to them in time. Survivors know how to play safe or hide when they're Exposed; you don't simply go back to hook after they use the perk and get a free down. I disagree with NarkoTri1er on it forcing 12-hooking, but not on it forcing hook spreading. And of course, the STB hook mark means little when individual survivor hooks are intentionally hidden from killer players, forcing people like me to count hooks with coins irl (which is sad).
Second Wind, I only complain about because it's another off-the-hook activated thing and is a pseudo- instaheal. I don't place it as a meta perk or anything. But if (not when) the survivor meta ever gets nerfed, and they're complaining about none of their new meta options being good, there's a good perk for them.
I disagree with the devs on increasing the hook timer just because the gen times were increased. They were both increased by the same amount of seconds, but that doesn't mean equal, because they're 2 different things and their starting total was different as well. Everybody knew that gen speeds were out of control before the +10 seconds change, because they STILL are out of control. So all the +10 seconds on hook does is give more time for survivors to rush gens before having to save a teammate. Before the change, they could hook trade at the last second, repeatedly, and that would be a net positive for them compared to what the killer was getting. You got a free hook trade. So what? They can keep doing that, and they're never gonna send in the death hook person to do it, so you're giving them a free ≤8-hook game where none of the survivors die.
And it's not being disingenuous. BHVR took a long time to do the change, because they were indecisive, because they knew they shouldn't do it. And they still have you duped, thinking that balance is just a matter of keeping those 10+ seconds changes in line with one another or not at all. No, balance is stopping SWF from being a game breaking tool, because you can't balance for them and solos at the same time, currently. And if touching base times/balance leads to disaster every time, then the last solution to be ruled out (which hasn't been done once in this game's history) is nerfing SWF directly, through decreased gen efficiency or something. It's the only reasonable solution that we haven't tried yet.
I think you deeply underestimate the exposed timer when it comes to StB - I've used StB and have been downed by the exposed timer putting me on second hook because like I said... If a killer wants to tunnel, they hover or drop chase to come back.
That's typically the behavior of a tunneling killer, too far and away are they too far to "secure" a tunnel target. If someone wants to tunnel, they always are at a distance to return to the hook. It's why I don't heal at hook unless I have something that speeds up the process of healing, since at least in my own MMR -- this is how killers operate and play like.
---
Are you seriously complaining about Second Wind giving you an extra health state because you out lasted the broken status? Do you think you are entitled enough to believe that because survivor goes on hook, you are free to put them back on the hook? If anything, you need to either find someone to heal or heal off the hook to get Second Wind value. It's not something where you instantly get value because you slap the perk on by any stretch of the imagination and you are not guaranteed a tunnel target or a survivor being back on the hook — which is what these perks do. They are perks, just like the killer has perks that affects healing, aura reading, or gen progression. Survivors have tools to prevent being tunneled (bandaid perks), healing, aura preventing, and gen progression. They are all tools a survivor and killer utilized and like I said, you work for Second Wind anyways.
---
So, do you want to go back to the old gen times. Yes or no? If you want to revert the hook times, do you want to go back to 80 second gens?
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921287#Comment_3921287
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921287#Comment_3921287
Have you not read SS lately? It gets stacks and prevents aura withing 24M for each stack. It's usually not that hard in soloQ to not be the first down.
I suppose, but it grows stronger every time a player dies.
It's not as consistent as the other ones and I would prefer to not use a perk that depends on my teammates dying to get value from -- but I can see your point.
Yes, @jesterkind thank you for pointing out the lack of inconsistency.
Even when I play Soloq, I prefer more consistent perks rather than outright selfish perks. I know some people think Distortion is selfish, but it depends on the user and what they're doing. In the past, I used it and it would prevent BBQ from seeing me, which allowed me to pop gens without constantly being read from far away. Sole Survivor would do nothing for me here, unless someone died -- which is not something I would advertise to people to use.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921288#Comment_3921288
This would be a complete analogue of kindred, just by passing within a radius of 16 meters, the survivors would see that the scale is filling up and would immediately understand where you are
You can’t just get all the perks in the world for freeAnti-camp meter is not a complete analogue of Kindred.
Kindred shows pinpoint accurate information to the team on where the killer is. Yes, the team gets information that the killer is camping or hovering but most skilled killer players know how to stay outside of the range of the anti-camp meter.
It should have been implemented when the HUD update came out, as that update was purposefully pushing soloq teams to have more information that they do get from being in a full SWF.
Killers typically leave the hook, chasing a potential unhooker and dropping chase to tunnel OR they hover outside of the meter radius to still complete the action of tunneling. With the implementation of the anti-camp meter, killers will adapt and do what I just said in the above ^. Ranged killers can effectively camp outside of the meter radius, M1 killers can camp outside of the meter radius by dropping chase, and mobility killers can return to hook easily (obviously due to their mobility).
The only thing an anti-camp meter would do is make soloq have more information (always a plus), make killers adapt (something I encourage on both sides), and help soloq to be more coordinated as the game when you go into higher MMR becomes more team coordinated.
Edit: adding anti-camp meter does nothing for tunneling, as a killer will be set to tunnel regardless - showing an anti-camp meter isn't a perk and it's dishonest to paint it as a form of Kindred.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920972#Comment_3920972
I dont understand why you think its twisted. The way we do it now is sufficient to deter the Killer, no need to implement COMP.
Adding an anti-camp meter on the HUD would simply put solo on the same level of SWF more.
I don't agree with basekit Bond or Kindred, however, saying that adding the anti-camp meter to a HUD would be adding comp is not a good argument.
Even in comp games, the anti-camp meter does not matter. They cannot unhook themselves when the meter fills up, they have to have their teammate unhook them. So, this is not an argument for the lack of an anti-camp meter. They should have added it in the HUD update.
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@Callahan9116 said:
Sole survivor shuts down aura reading HARD. There are tons of counters to it, you are just not using them.
So, someone should use a perk that only gets value at the end and even then you're not guaranteed that value? People do not use Sole Survivor for aura blocking, they use it to get speed on exit gates when they're the last alive (more than likely not getting value consistently anyways) as you cannot control that you are the last survivor specifically.
Shadowstep, Off The Record, Object of Obsession (if you're great at looping), and Distortion are the only major counters to aura reading.
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@Zuiphrode said:
By their nature there are 4x as many surv mains as killer mains.
This.
I think most people who post are either flex players or killer mains - some survivor mains.
I agree that there are more survivor mains in general, they more than likely lurk like I did years ago when Sluzzy existed. I would just go from forum post to post and read, not really engage, and upvote and move on.
It's more nuanced than just more killer or survivor takes - there's a lot of people who come on here and complain about whatever, start a conversation about specific things, and whatever else there is. — but most definitely survivor accounts lurk and upvote, while killer accounts/flex accounts will state their opinions far more than survivor driven accounts.
@DeBecker says it best and it was quite apparent when I made a forum post talking about countering Surge, having people claim I'm a survivor entitled person, or using ad-hominem. The forums is killer sided, but upvoted content typically goes to more nuanced takes, rather than straight blanket statements.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
You are not supposed to wiggle off on a regular basis. Wiggling only exists so that the Killer cannot bring you to any Hook they want, so that you dont end up in Basement most of the time or the Killer maybe has to settle for a non-Scourge Hook.
That being said, the Hook Density is a bit too much. The two hooks in the Screenshot are not even the worst example of it. Something they did not adjust when changing that Hooks can respawn.
Yep, with the shrinking maps - the density of things are far closer. I agree with the sentiment, but it renders Flip Flop builds unusable. - I used to use the perk years ago until the shrinking of maps and density allowed things to become closer.
Only way for you to stop being hooked is Boil Over (killers hate the perk) or you're in a sabotage SWF, which isn't likely for soloq as soloq is the majority.
I agree that wiggling should be less uncommon, at the same time they should look at the density of objects and adjust them instead of having everything constructed to be closer - it's not good game design in the long run.
Edit: I misspoke, lol. Even in the OP's post, the hook is close, and no way to get off. That's why I don't even bother with wiggling builds or saboing builds, I just push gens as there's no point to waste time on that - I do miss Flip Flop value, however.
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It makes me wonder how they'll deal with end game chat with console once they implement mouse and keyboard.
As we don't have a standard keyboard and only have the keyboard the console gives us. They should just implement what Overwatch has or even Fortnite, I'm surprised that you cannot type on console with the standard keyboard - not like it matters to me, I'm glad I don't see end game chat sometimes.
I'd still play with a controller, but it makes me wonder when the changes come - will I be able to see end game chat? 🤔 Will Behavior allow us to type like Overwatch and Fortnite does? It's bizarre Behavior doesn't have that even implemented, lol. Even TCM allows you to type, lol.
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@Neaxolotl said:
Do no mither appears at chaos shuffle? I've never played one
I've gotten No Mither about 3-4 times I think? I've seen lobbies where multiple No Mithers are present - luckily when I play with a friend (only time I play the game mode) -- I haven't gotten No Mither since this new iteration... yet.
---Once, I played with a friend - him and I loaded in with No Mither and the only two to escape. ☠️ It's not common, but it obviously sucks when it happens but that's Chaos Shuffle for you. -
@UknownShredder said:
The problem is that the DC penalties are so severe. Some people play this game alot more than others, like a full time job and for those people getting a penalty from cheat and then one from DC and then they start to accumulate to a point where you cant play for a week. the maximum penalty should be 1 hour , lets say after 2 DCs for whatever reason. and should be reset every day.
people should not be afraid to log on and play the game after 71 hours and fear the game might bug out, someone cheat or someone crashing your internet or you get a normal internet cutout even tho they happen rarely. to get a reinforced 72 hour penalty to wait out.I don't know how you view the DC penalties as severe. Yes, people do not play this game for a living or play much more casually -- but if you feel like you have other priorities or duties then you can always just play later.
When I encounter hackers, I've seen a couple (not that many) - I typically play the game out and I report them accordingly.
If you have other priorities that make you have to step away or completely DC out of a match, you should take that in consideration before queueing up.
It does suck that internet can cause you to DC multiple times over, I've had that before - however, it resets naturally the next day. The longest penalty I've had is less than an hour (the lag filled day) - I took a break and recognized that it's probably for the best, rather than continuing to queue up, lagging out, and my team is left with a less competent version of myself in the form of a bot.
The first DC is literally 50 seconds and is cumulative the more you do it in a day.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920827#Comment_3920827
sadly, in low/mid/high MMR people set way too many expectations on others instead of looking inwards.
Because they have to. Your survival is entirely dependent on your teammates, and your own skill/knowledge of the game does little to impact it. And this is exactly why teammates giving up is a problem, because it screws you over. The game is designed for Survivors to rely on each other.
I've had a Sable kill herself at 4 gens - literally her first hook. I popped a gen in Artist's face, Sprint Bursted away, looped her for nearly 2 minutes, and we got down to 2 gens by the time I went down.
The end result? = 2 man out. If I gave up, everyone would have died, but I still put my best foot forward and continued for my team and I didn't become Sable 2.0.
However, I will not act like this is the norm - but I still stand by the fact that survivors and killers should try their best because you never know when a game turns around in your favor.
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Dead By Daylight is a game where many things happen. Just because 3 gens pop at the beginning of the game does not mean the game is over, it doesn't mean the survivors have won, more than likely they 3 genned.
Same thing for my Sable example in the above ^.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920696#Comment_3920696
I don't understand Shoulder The Burden in regards to 12 hooking or to help mitigate tunneling. -> this is like comparing it to Second Wind (helps being tunneled if you can outlast the broken status) - I've seen you or @NarkoTri1er complain about this perk.
since tunneling is a strategy that can basically give results only if it's applied earlier into the match as a way to take advantage of survivors making mistake in early game, this perk mitigates this by a wide margin.
Also, this perk mitigates heavy amount of pressure applied to a survivor due to them finishing on 2nd hook, because two survivors on 1 hook state is eons better than having one survivor on death hook, but many people who don't understand using altruism in it's proper form will fail to understand this.
Not to mention that Exposed timer for StB is not that long at all and in most cases it will run out way before you get hit.
You already get told that someone StB, it shows a permanent hook tally on the person, and the person is exposed? Why not return back to hook, down the exposed person (sure, they might use Vigil to reduce the exposed lol) - why not take the free down and get the StB person on hook? They're death hook now, why so fixated on the recent unhooked injured person? StB is a high risk, high reward perk and having the idea that because you've downed someone, I get to tunnel, it doesn't mean you should get a free down and easier game.
umm...first of all no smart player will unhook right after killer leaves the hook (and a lot of players who complain about tunneling are the ones doing this), especially if hook is in the resource deadzone. Unhooking right after killer leaves the hook and is still close by is not the flaw of perk and 40s exposed timer, it's exclusively fault of survivor unhooking who is not taking advantage of hook timer and is too impatient to go for an unhook.
StB is not a high risk perk if you understand when you should go for an unhook.
my edit : - 90 second hook timers became a thing when they increased gen times, but for some reason Behavior took a long time to do this change. It's ten extra seconds, if you would prefer we can go back to the regular gen and hook stage time limits, but I assure you that you do not want that — do not be disingenuous.
+10s to hook timer was extremely unnecessary for 90s gen timers, it was fine previously even though it could be abused to gain advantage. Survivor on the hook is technically invulnerable, and that's why you should be careful about when you are going for an unhook.
I'm aware that tunneling is a strategy that a killer employs, however, my point is that StB simply transfers the hook stage (permanent tally mark, so it's not a surprise at all) that's a huge downside as it notifies and gives the killer permanent information on hook stages.
You can say any anti-tunneling perks mitigate tunneling - the ones I listed prior ^ can do the exact same without transferring the hook stage. You can combine Borrowed Time + Babysitter and mitigate tunneling that way. StB keeps it simple by putting yourself at risk, it makes the hook stage transfer to you, and StB puts you at risk for being exposed.
The exposed status effect does take a while to get off of you and if a killer is dead set on tunneling - they normally hover the hook in anticipation of the person being unhooked due to the anti-camp mechanic.
So, you have a killer wanting to tunnel -- they'll tunnel regardless, StB is by definition a high risk, high reward perk - you could have the killer hover ^ like I said in the above scenario or simply be in chase and completely leave chase to solidify the confirmed tunnel out.
Using StB in the second scenario is stronger, as the killer takes time to come back to hook - sure, but that's on the killer to either hover or leave chase and go back to hook. You have the core concept of tunneling, go back to hook, and find the StB user or you can choose to continue focusing on the injured person knowing that the next hook stage will be their first hook.
Acting as if you should be guaranteed that hook stage because the survivor made mistakes to go on the hook is a little asinine and thinking that because you put them on the hook that they should be easy prey for you to focus on is absurd. If that's the case, you would be against any anti-tunneling, which again, as I've pointed out - you or @danielmaster87 do not like Second Wind for the same reasons and think it's too strong.
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My initial response did not mention unhooking right in front of the killer. 🤦🏾♀️ I mentioned, as I said prior - you can return to hook or complete the down on the StB user by hovering. That's typically the behavior of a tunneling killer, they either hover or take chase to prevent the unhook and when the unhook is successful they return to tunnel. You are given two options: focus on the StB user or go for the injured person — that doesn't change what I said and I never mentioned unhooking right away, you have the time to down an exposed player, especially if they're caught out of position or the person hooked is in a deadzone.
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No, it was not fine the way it was prior. Like I said, if you want to go down this route - we can return to 80 seconds gens and the normal hook timer. It was ridiculous that Behavior allowed 90 second gens and didn't compensate hook timers. Luckily, they did and it was a good change as a killer had more time for gens to get done, but the same time to solidify a person dying on hook - it was not a good change prior without the compensation required.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920705#Comment_3920705
I don't think that we should tackle this behaviour by giving an already overtuned killer another ability.
Imagine giving something like this to Nurse or blight.
Just a reminder, that blocking an exit gate with a guard / while asleep is the effect of an iridescent addon for both Knight and Freddy. The effect is incredibly powerful and people ask to get it for free on a killer that is undoubtedly stronger than the others.
I'm against that.
I see your point, I was just saying to remedy that you can bait it out or point tech. 😊 I'm not against it and I do agree that it's not necessary as other S tiers — correct me if I'm wrong do not possess that ability.
I know of Houndmaster, but I believe she is A tier at best.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920721#Comment_3920721
Nobody can prevent you from properly utilizing the DC button. All they can do is avoid playing into your attempt at evading the matchmaking penalty.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920722#Comment_3920722
Exactly. If someone is tilted, sometimes they'll calm down while they're in time out and regain their composure to complete the match. If they're as far gone as some of the perspectives in this thread, they honestly need the time away from the game and to reconsider the impact of their actions. Many won't, but maybe they have defective super-egos, idk.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920739#Comment_3920739
Wanting to play and wanting to play only under ideal circumstances are two wildly different things. If someone can only do the latter, competitive gaming might not be a good fit for them. There are plenty of excellent single player or co-op only games they can play instead, and its part of where the whole Civ meme came from. 10 minutes is minuscule compared to many other games on the market, and people can stick through losing matches in those just fine. LoL doesn't even have a surrender option until at least 15 minutes into a match (requiring a 4/5 vote,) no matter how lopsided those 15 minutes go. The exception to this is if someone DCs or is afk, then it can be done earlier strictly if unanimous across the team. One person deciding to nope out and ruining the game for the other 9 players is not considered acceptable, and thats in a game where matches can easily go from 30 minutes to an hour. Its also a game where hypercarries exist, characters who are strong enough to singlehandedly carry their team to victory due to being relatively overpowered in their shared agency proportion. Just like in DBD, you can do everything right, have a teammate feed the hypercarry, and then all of your agency is diminished by that exchange. And it can happen at almost any point in that long match, including the start.
Yes, as I said to another poster here @cesspoolechochamber - you can easily play the game out. Survivors give up for many, many, many different reasons and I really try my best in situations. I've had two survivors DC against a Hillbilly... On Lery's. - I still played that game out, I still tried my best, did I die? Yes, of course.
But I still looped Hillbilly, I still went and played it and said GGs to the Xbox player, I believe he got hatch or something. - even in a dead game, such as the one I said above ^ you can still gain experience and just play for fun, which sadly, is lost on this game for some players. - people expect steam rolls, 3-4 gen chases, gens popping for survivor.
While for killer, you expect a steamroll, less gen progression or gen pops, or multiple hook stages, or a solidified tunnel out early on.
It's why I always opt to try my best, so I am not the survivor that gives up - I like to learn, adapt, and move onto the next game - that's what I enjoy about DBD. However, my mindset is not the norm and sadly, in low/mid/high MMR people set way too many expectations on others instead of looking inwards.
Edit: — which leads people to DC.
I've had killers DC over small, minor things. Same for survivor. It's burnout, I went down first, "My chase wasn't that good.", "Why didn't a gen pop during my chase? I give up.", "I don't like this killer. I'm going next."
OR
For killer: "Someone cleansed my totem early, I DC.", "They looped me for multiple gens, I give up.", I can't tunnel this person, this person is uncatchable, survivors taking bodyblock protection hits, I missed off a few frames — DC. It's sad that people give up over the smallest of things, but it's whatever - I don't see it often, thank God.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920693#Comment_3920693
The only thing people can do is try and dissuade them from attempting to repeat that ones actions and indirectly try to help others until something changes. We're under no delusions that this will stop a majority or even a minor number of them, but it might stop some and does prevent another reoccurrence from that specific one.
I do see your point, by all means - you can do that... I was just saying that I believe that's what @IronKnight55 meant potentially.
Like I said, I don't find the slugging itself toxic but survivors aren't people that you can put in time-out to make us rethink our choices. People can go into a game, hear the terror radius of a Nurse or her own very shriek, and simply choose to give up. I'm not one of those survivors nor do I condone the behavior, but if a Nurse slugs that person - they will do the repeated behavior against Nurses continually. It's a mindset that's ingrained, it won't be changed by a simple time-out.
I'd rather the game be finished, as it's dead by definition but I see why you feel like it would dissuade them from leaving them in your game and potentially affecting future ones. 😊
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@TieBreaker said:
I never really got the appeal of Chaos Shuffle. The only interesting thing about playing survivor is running different builds, but this mode gives you perks with either no synergy, or sometimes anti-synergy. So you're often just stuck with basekit survivor, which is kind of dull. The creative synergy is where the spice is.
You might get some new, interesting build when playing survivor. But more often than not, you end up with mediocre perks that don't do anything interesting when combined.
Haha, I'll always remember one time I loaded in with No Mither and looped a Clown while playing SWF a year or so ago with it.
https://youtu.be/cmqZ3X0Ume0?si=Uy6HgUmfCGXJkQtg
^ moments like this doesn't exist in the game, a killer sees you have No Mither and you're done - you might have a merciful killer from time to time, but it's such a shame.
I used to love the game mode because I love making new builds and finding new synergies, but obviously it's so inconsistent. The only game mode I truly liked was Lights Out! which I think is unpopular, but it was nice being jumpscared in all honesty and gave DBD the horror vibe that it desperately needs.
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@DeBecker said:
Less annyoing perk builds. Some may be lucky, but at least you dont see ghoulds runing their annyoing hex setup or full slowdown. And killers always played like this no matter the mode. history prooved this.
It's practically this answer, I used to love the game mode at first but it's basically a situation where as survivor — you are in a situation where you might get good perks, you might not get good perks, you'll have tunneling and slugging. - I had this where I had a Bubba tunneling with (Pain Resonance, Trail of Torment, Thana, and a fourth perk that I can't remember) on Dead Dawg Saloon. - he tunneled my friend, even after two For The People plays from myself. I don't care to play the game and usually opt for regular games due to this ^.
On the killer side, you have times where you have no gen slowdown or nothing to pressure the survivors — you don't need to worry about second chance perks, so you can tunnel to your heart's content if needed.
It's such a shame because it's probably the closest we have to a casual game mode as you don't have to see meta perks, but it doesn't change with player behavior obviously -- I'd rather go against meta with my perks that I know synergize vs. go against a killer who has the ability to make a 1v3 easily and have no way to take back the game, especially if I don't have good perks to combat it.
Edit: @buggybug - no tome, which is strange. Just pushes me to go play regular if I'm being honest. ☠️
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920565#Comment_3920565
Dude…. thats an outrageous take. "it's toxic to keep someone in a match they dont want to be in" are you kidding me? They re screwing over their entire team. They are ruining the match. If they didnt want to play then they should just not queue up.
I will NEVER reward go nexters. Im gonna slug you if you try to go next and you can eat the DC penalty as punishment for screwing your team.I think what they're trying to say is that you slugging them does nothing.
If I was in that position, but I am a survivor main - you are practically stooping to my level. Let's say, you are Kaneki, I don't like going against Kaneki, so I run up to you to make the game go quicker, you slug me for the full four minutes - during these four minutes, I go do something else. I've been gaming for an hour, maybe it's even my first game — it's whatever, I go get a snack and eat it, I go to the bathroom, I go get something to drink, I go on my phone, I go watch a YouTube video, etc.
You think you're an arbiter of justice, when in reality that person (or I ^) mind you, I've never done this - I only speak on behalf of being slugged for a 4k, but the mindset is similar. I've checked out of the game — whether being slugged or because I decided to throw the game, I have no consideration to the progression, so you slugging for the 4k (what I go through) or slugging someone at the start doesn't help the other survivors, they started the game 1v3 or 2v3 technically and it's a dead game.
I have experienced this before, someone gave up, and I have to now sit through this long game (if the killer decides to farm) or the killer plays normally and I kill myself regardless — the game is dead, I wouldn't consider it toxic, but you aren't doing some veiled justice and making the person rethink anything.
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@radiantHero23 said:
I dont think this killer needs to get this as well. Sorry not sorry. Kaneki is strong enough already.
I can see your point, Kaneki is still strong - not as strong but still strong.
The change wouldn't affect me as I already leave most of the time if I know my team is safe. I don't think I've done a celebratory bag in years.
I value my time, so most of the time I just leave or bait out a killer's power (Houndmaster and Kaneki) and the exit gate block doesn't last as long, if it does, I point and I'm able to leave regardless.
No point in dragging out the game, but I know how some people are in the community - they need to rub it in with the teabags, humping, and whatever else they do to excite their day - but then complain when the other side does it to them — it's a never-ending cycle.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920512#Comment_3920512
You might as well give up. If people can't understand how locker DS is a lose-lose, or how STB isn't a guaranteed down and does (maybe not force 12-hooking but) make tunneling not work (because you're hooking 1 person 4+ times), there's no point in wasting breath.
I don't understand Shoulder The Burden in regards to 12 hooking or to help mitigate tunneling. -> this is like comparing it to Second Wind (helps being tunneled if you can outlast the broken status) - I've seen you or @NarkoTri1er complain about this perk.
Same for For The People, I can unhook someone, see the killer coming, and transfer my health state to them - same concept.
You already get told that someone StB, it shows a permanent hook tally on the person, and the person is exposed? Why not return back to hook, down the exposed person (sure, they might use Vigil to reduce the exposed lol) - why not take the free down and get the StB person on hook? They're death hook now, why so fixated on the recent unhooked injured person? StB is a high risk, high reward perk and having the idea that because you've downed someone, I get to tunnel, it doesn't mean you should get a free down and easier game.
@danielmaster87 / my edit : - 90 second hook timers became a thing when they increased gen times, but for some reason Behavior took a long time to do this change. It's ten extra seconds, if you would prefer we can go back to the regular gen and hook stage time limits, but I assure you that you do not want that — do not be disingenuous.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920687#Comment_3920687
We're not really surprised, but it will hopefully get to those with less brains and/or patience.
We can't tell what the quitter wants, but killers can keep them from trying to q up and pulling the same stunt again for a certain time. If they want to be on the dirt while we go play with the rest of their team (either killing them or farming) then they can have it, but it atleast gives others a chance to not get a q with that one to hopefully get a normal match.
I suppose, but the point is that they'll still keep doing it regardless either due to frustration or behavioral patterns.
That Steve I mentioned? ^ he'll queue up once more, if he goes down without any Deliverance, he will give up. A survivor gives up because they're downed first? Same thing. Hell, I made a Steam profile to make a comment on my friend's Steam page and someone on his page has "Ghoul = Go Next." - people DC and/or give up for whatever reasons, it's why I've made a personal decision that if someone attempts to kill themselves on hook, I don't go unhook. 🤷🏾♀️
I had a Sable attempt to give up on hook, someone unhooked her, she went around Dead Dawg throwing every pallet, and then teabagged my hook as I died. Slugging these people do nothing other than a little temporary time-out in your game, until they go into the next and inflict the same behavior if and once the trigger occurs once more.
People have been saying for the longest time that Behavior hasn't done much for solo survivors, so I'm not at all surprised with "Go Nexters".
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920392#Comment_3920392
And when they do get annoyed enough they won't q up to wreck another match or actually start playing. According to some here they're trying to teach persistence to those [insert word of choice].
You'd be surprised about people who have the tendency to give up when things don't go their way.
You do it, they get the reaction that they want - you putting them down and leaving them on the ground does nothing as they simply can go do something else.
I had a Wraith hump me on the ground not too long ago, Xbox player - and I went to eat my food with my controller on my coffee table. You do the same to a person who gave up? Same thing.
Haha, @WolfyWood - I just set the controller down. 🤷🏾♀️ If I know there's two survivors left, the other survivor and I - I give up, will find the killer, and intentionally jump into a locker to force the killer to hook me. Don't hook me? I crawl away completely from the other survivor, go on my phone, and/or eat. Playstation, Xbox, Switch, and PC players are capable of doing other things while being slugged.
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Survivors give up for a multitude of different reasons, just like killer players do as well.
The survivor could DC or even run up to the killer for a myriad of different reasons - months ago, I had a Steve give up because he was the first one down with Deliverance.
People give up just to give up at times, I don't agree with the poster about it being retaliation, but to act as if being slugged because the survivor chose to give up will continue to a DC epidemic is jumping to conclusions.
I've seen many, many survivors give up, kill themselves on hook, and ultimately throw pallets for whatever reason set them off originally. Luckily, I don't see it a lot in my MMR level when I play solo, but slugging a person because they gave up does nothing to increase DC epidemics. You have a little DC button if you want to give up, it replaces you with a bot, and doesn't completely kill the game for the others.
You don't want to be in a game, DC or take a break. Taking it out onto your other teammates indicates you are not a teamplayer and selfish regardless of the reason.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920172#Comment_3920172
People use dh because most survs perks are not as good as they once were so you don't have much choice anyway.
sorry but survivor meta got more diverse over the time, there is plethora of strong survivor perks, DH is picked because it is good against every single tier of killers.
Dead Hard also dropped below Lithe and Sprint Burst. You only get two uses out of it and once you Dead Hard the first time - the killer now knows you have it and can ultimately bait out the second and you're done if not timed correctly. Dead Hard isn't as strong as it once was - yes, it can be strong in the right hands but there's a reason why SB and Lithe are used more often now.
Edit: Lithe and Sprint Burst are also more versatile and useful as they're not as finite as a Dead Hard. - the person above might prefer DH to a Lithe, but ultimately DH is much weaker compared to its original iteration. Lithe, SB, and Dramaturgy can be used multiple times over against many variety of killers - not just DH.
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@Shaped said:
Object of obsession is underrated.
Killers often have some kind of aura reading and it's not like stealth is an option in dbd anymore so it's actually value to see the killer often rather than not.
It's only an issue if you are the last surv/killer slugged but at that point there is a high chance you will die anyway.
I used it a lot the other day and got more value than I thought I would. I did run otr and ds most of the time but killers can tunnel you regardless of ooo. It's not something you aren't used to if you actually play surv enough.
I liked using it with Eyes of Belmont and Scene Partner for continuous mind-game deletion. It's a pretty nice build. I would only recommend it to people who know how to loop properly as it makes you a target all game or outright makes the killer ignore you all game. 😅 I find it funny to play with in a way!
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@IWantCandys said:
Look, I don't think it's right to give up right at the beginning, but if I imagine myself in that survivor's situation, being slugged by you as punishment... well, then I would just tab out and watch videos.
Do you really think the slugged survivor will stare angrily at the screen for four minutes, waiting for the bleed out?
As I said, I don't want to justify the survivor's behavior, but I get the feeling you think your punishment has a greater effect on this player than it actually does.
Yeah, I was about to say - people can just opt to tab out or be on their phone.
Usually what I do in a position of let's say, being slugged for the 4k (or crawl away from the last survivor) or I just go on my phone.
I don't think it's a "retaliation" for the other side. The other teammate (the one downed) already gave up the idea of playing the match for whatever reason (killer choice, map selection, didn't like what a random did, was the first one down, etc) - the game was ultimately lost, especially if it was a 1v3 at the start of the match. Some might consider it toxic, I wouldn't, but I've never been put in this position anyways. 🤷🏾♀️ So, I wouldn't consider it toxic - but it's not retaliation, it's not like you're putting the survivor in time-out and making them rethink their choices, haha. They couldn't care less as they've opted to give up and will continue doing the behavior.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919162#Comment_3919162
first of all I’m not mouth breathing, why are you running in here? This teabag show isn’t for you, it’s a celebration with my teammates, that we did it, again what are you doing here?unless you’re trying to do cute stuff with us. We teabag each other, spin in circles, point, wave, and nod at each other. It’s a happy dance. We’re just clowning with each other at the exit gates.
secondly I’m hoping you don’t run over here and get someone not marked safe outside the exit gates, maybe get more altruism points from a save once you hook them.
Third of all it’s not about you Mr? Mr. Killer. I’m trying to see if everyone else is at a gate or going to make it out while being safe myself. It’s teammate things -flips hair -you wouldn’t understand.
-maybe some groups are trying to be weird and toxic but it’s mostly points 1,2, and 3-
I don't necessarily teabag at the gates, generally as killer mains typically find it toxic to do and it wastes my time and their time.
Usually, I'll 99 the door (or open fully) if an injured survivor comes to my door. - even then, I just typically leave and I can't think of the last time I actively teabagged (probably out of a "ha, ha - you couldn't tunnel me.") but even then, nowadays I just opt to leave.
I can only think of a handful of times where a Kaneki has bit me at the gate and I cannot leave. - normally I bait them into biting me before I reach the end of the gate or I point tech and go past the gate as a whole.
I don't see the point of teabagging at an exit gate and if it's celebratory, I just message the person ggs and move on.
@Neaxolotl , I don't know about that hot take in general but I digress. - there are workarounds for a Kaneki bite - I've had one bite me right as I got around the gate, not fully - and I still managed to get out. I only died like once or twice to it and it was on Kaneki's release day.
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I do not believe that Weave Attunement (it's already been nerfed) to show your item now (in the past it didn't) nor do I think Franklin's needs a nerf. Sure, it sucks losing an item but that is a perk that a killer has to nullify items.
Those are two perks, meaning two less gen regression or aura related perks. The combination is no longer broken or OP by any stretch of the imagination - and as @Blueberry mentioned you pick up your item, put it in a corner, and adapt to how the game plays out.
Items are objects that can easily be lost due to a myriad of perks (Overwhelming Presence even if more niche does the same) and you are not entitled to have your item just because you spent BP on it in the bloodweb.