UndeddJester
UndeddJester
About
- Username
- UndeddJester
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
Mometarily breaking my hiatus to defend Pig, since she's the only thing worth clinging onto anymore. ^🐽^
I know this scenario seems hopeless and extremely unfair, but as a Pig main with respectable hours on her, who is also in regular discussion with some very long standing Pig players...
People have far more agency here than they think... and they can punish a Pig doing this really hard. The things you have to remember are:
- Headtrap timers are 150 seconds (130s with Tampered Timer)
- The timer pauses when you are in chase, or when downed/hooked.
- Your searches can be anywhere between 1 and 4 searches.
- Pig moves at 4m/s (4.2m/s with John's Medical File) while crouched and cannot hurt you without standing up, or using ambush.
- You can leave trial with an active trap via hatch.
A Pig stalking for head pop can't allow you to complete a box, they can't leave you at any point as you only need to get 1 box to potentially get the trap off. They also can't enter chase or down you without stopping the timer either, and if you exploit this fact, you can waste so much of their time.
So the game plan:
It's a little contextual, and it does rely on your team not being ameoba brains, but the best thing you can do is not be afraid of her.
Let her waste half your trap timer following you, taking her around loops. What you're looking for is a stun to make her stand up so you can run away and hopefully trick her into activating chase, wasting even more time.
After about half your timer is gone (or you're down to 1 or 2 gens), stick to box do not let go and start forcing her to grab you or down you (if you've got Plot Twist, you're laughing your ass off... now shes really screwed). In either case she now has to stop your timer. Keep crawling so you don't recover, your goal here is to stay on the floor. If she picks you up and hooks you, that's great, you've wasted about 90s or more with your team uncontested on gens, and now you've got a whole 70s on hook.
With this much uncontested time on gens, your team should be on the last gen about to pop, if not popped already and on gates.
This is unfortunately where your chance of survival is slim... you need to get unhooked (or picked up), survive looping long enough for everyone to leave (and dor them to be smart enough to actually leave), and then reach hatch before Pig catches you.
Realistically you're probably dead... but you've just spent 3 minutes making this Pig player look incredibly dumb and a hard point of how bad this Pig player is... and if you do get hatch... you probably will convert this player from ever trying this crap again.
You COULD try and remove this... but I struggle to see something you can do to prevent it, that also doesn't needlessly nerf normal Pig play in the process. For example chase being started while crouched? People can swing near you to start chase and pause their timers, and Pig can't stop it... forcing her to chase them...
Big deal you might say... but everything Pig does is about making the most of her Pig timers, and she already has a lot of caveats to dance around... this is one more thing that she doesn't need.
Have a good one! >🐽^
-
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
I love how nearly everyone (likely most if not all of them are survivor mains) act as if killer mains don't play the game ourselves. Did many of the so-called "influencers" say the same things we were seeing? Yes. Does that mean that they we were just listening to them? No. But, they have the voice we do not.
I am a P100 Pig main. Even before the first "influencer" video went up, I was against the 9.2 BS and the more videos I watched, the more I didn't hear anything I didn't already notice and think myself.Truth.
Anyone who has any competence playing both sides could see how badly the basekit effects could be abused and how paltry the buffs for low tier killers was gonna be in the face of those changes. It would skew the already massive low tier/high tier killer divide even more, and we're already seeing people pretty much exclusively playing higher tier killers already in the wake of the pallet density and PTB debacles.
Many people who were at least smart enough to see the issues though were still willing to make that sacrifice, and often said stuff like "we can buff low tier killers later"... which sounds OK... but hot off the heels of the Myers rework, one has to ask... "buffed into what exactly?".
It's one thing to have your killer be unique, but weak... you can accept that, but to have all your killers uniqueness axed and converted into something generic to cater to the mass market that hasn't put anywhere close to the same time and care into the character as you... that's a bitter pill. Like the "Pig head traps are only for slowdown, 30s of extra headtrap timer doesn't change anything about her" discussions of yesteryear.
The Myers rework can be called controversial at best... some people really like it, some people really despise it, and controversy is absolutely not a measure of success... if that's the direction our "fixing lower tier killers" is gonna go, I know that I will do my best to fight those changes tooth and nail.
-
The issue is that unfortunately trying to remove body blocking causes more problems that it's worth.
- Removing no clip between Survivor and Killer actually makes it easier to body block cause you can sit in the killers model, and the killer cannot not hit you.
- Tying it to protection hits allows killers to subvert it by hitting the unhooker as they go for the unhook, and then hit the unhooked Survivor while the injured Survivor is within 16m to bypass their BT.
- Chase mechanics have similar issues where they can be bypassed by simply entering chase with the other survivor after they unhook to down.
Its actually quite hard to get rid of the body blocking problem without doing something crazy...
E.g. make Survivors off hook ethereal or something and make it physically impossible to hit or interact with them for the duration of BT.... which means there is genuinely no way to stop them when running to gate...
-
I've had plenty of moments on console, usually when I'm turning quickly and turn a little too far, where as I turn into the swing, the aim dressing thinks I've hit, pulls my camera back towards the Survivor and actually stops my lunge prematurely, only to miss and hit air, letting the Survivor reach the pallet.
It really screws me up too cause the way it yanks my camera unexpectly from where I am controlling it to point and expect it to be, it completely disorientates me, even causing me to get double vision for a fraction of a second as my eyes try to follow the Survivor as they suddenly move in my FOV.
Needless to say, when you're already getting FOV teched constantly as a console killer and have to bait a spin out to get the hit... the rare occassions this happens are excruciatingly annoying 🥴
-
@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037249#Comment_4037249
I think Nurse might need two fixes:
→ Removal of lunge add on so precise blinks matter again
→ When blink is fully charged, auras are hidden from Nurse
I think Blight also needs two adjustments:
→ base movespeed down to 4.4
→ rush tokens reduced by 1
Don't agree on Pig though, her traps are slowdown and it's their purpose. Headpop era is dead for a while.
Don't agree on Pig though, her traps are slowdown and it's their purpose. Headpop era is dead for a while.
They are slowdown, and this makes the slowdown more consistent, as well as making trap timers a prominent part of Pig's gameplay that Survivors cant ignore... as it should be.
I can also assure you head pop era ain't dead. Gears and Tampered Timer with scream builds is very much a thing in modern DBD... arguably better now than ever with buffed, non TR based Ultimate Weapon and the new Phantom Fear perk. 😏
-
Surprise fix list: -
- Nerf Nurse - Blinded status while charging blink/blinking.
- Nerf Blight - 4.4m/s base movement speed.
- Nerf Both - Stuns reset tokens.to 0, these do not start recharging until the end of the stun.
- Buff Pig - Ruleset Number 2 basekit.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037022#Comment_4037022
These comparisons you make are interesting but there's a big element missing: the protagonists don't understand their situation beforehand. Do you think Ripley would have agreed to go back out if she'd known Burke was treacherous? Or that Franklin would have even been present if the group had any thought there'd be danger? Team-visible perks will change that aspect completely.
You might have accidentally made the best argument against the idea of that visibility. The element of surprise will be missing. Maybe it'd be better if you didn't see their perks until you were in the game.
Also Burke! I pulled Rourke randomly out of my brain and didn't realise until this very second, cheers for that correction xD
It's an interesting point in general I suppose, cause obviously the RNG elements of DBD maps are meant to reduce the "map knowledge" elements of DBD and maintain this first time experience idea as much as possible... obviously these systems weren't built with 10'000 hour players in mind...and I guess most balance areas of the game aren't 🤔
I suppose game knowledge does kinda inherently and inevitably do a number on "experiences" aspects of the game... I suppose in game design "meta" sense, thats why many players advocate for systems that are much more mechanics focused, instead of the theme... after a certain point of gamer experience, the theme doesn't really matter anymore...
E.g. A Wizard in a fantasy game after a point no longer cares about their lore and characters place in world, and becomes more interestimg in finding a emerald dark embued staff with a +4 int modifier 😅
-
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036930#Comment_4036930
I don't really get what they really want her to do.
You can't play her as trap based as long lines are visible and so you had players playing around undetectable and that's suddenly not allowed either…
Nerfing her won't really help their idea to get her into good enough state to forget the rework.
If they return stealth drones, then I would get behind the idea. Where she is more trap based and when survivors triggered her drones she can recall them for stealth.
But not really in her current state, where you have to deploy drones even more randomly just so you can recall them when needed.Aye... it does make one wonder...
The optimist side me isbwondering if maybe the plan is to slowly drip feed changes in so that there isn't a resurgence of Skull Merchant hate? Possibly?
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037022#Comment_4037022
These comparisons you make are interesting but there's a big element missing: the protagonists don't understand their situation beforehand. Do you think Ripley would have agreed to go back out if she'd known Burke was treacherous? Or that Franklin would have even been present if the group had any thought there'd be danger? Team-visible perks will change that aspect completely.
You might have accidentally made the best argument against the idea of that visibility. The element of surprise will be missing. Maybe it'd be better if you didn't see their perks until you were in the game.
Yeah... I mean that's pretty good point I cant really rebuff. 😅
I surmise that is probably the reason why such a feature hasn't been implemeted already to be fair 😅
I suppose if I was to try and defend the point, I would say you can't inherently know just based on perks... buuut the element of "surprise" certainly dips... sooooo…
-
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036985#Comment_4036985
I hate to be prejudice, but I've had more than enough experiences for them to be justified.
One time I played with a bully squad against Wesker. They were just screwing, trying to get all the blinds and what not while I was off all alone doing gens. Only got one done, because of course I also had to help with the hook saves. What should I have done better there?
Is fair enough, and all good, as I say I'm just playing really, so no judgements from me... we're talking about a game after all 😁
There is the argument that time is the most valuable resource in your life, you certainly don't inherently owe anyone else your time (at least until you've agreed to give up your time by starting the trial)... and if you suspect people are gonna waste your time, it's no one else's business whether you dodge or not really...
I take the philosophy that I don't really care if I win or lose in DBD, I still believe in and like the horror concept of DBD... I know people say this isn't a horror game anymore, but I personally believe horror is more than just if you're scared or not.
So like in this hypothetical horror scenario, if I have say, I dunno a person with me in this scenario who was in a wheelchair... like Franklin in TCM. The reality of that situation is that person is a liability that actively hinders my ability to escape the trial... the pragmatic choice is to give up on that person and focus on keeping myself alive... but the much more human response is to risk yourself and help this person... now instead of a person in a wheelchair, we have a noob, or a David adept, or whatever... it's the same principle and the game is testing me on how I approach that problem.
Similarly we consider someone like Rourke in Aliens, someone who is actively worming against the group for their own ends. This is effectively the same thing as someone who is ratting... do I set them up to die myself, or do I stick to trying to be a team payer in spite of the group distrust?
What about those gung ho/blase characters, the typical jock characters in horror that get themselves killed early by being overconfident and ignoring the threat until it's too late? This is effectively the same thing as your aggressive flashlighters and alike... do I forgo trying to save everyone and save myself.likenthe Final Girl idea? Or do I still assume the usual risks to save these idiots from themselves?
These kinds questions are interesting to me, and allow me to still mostly emjoy the game whether I win or lose... assuming some idiot doesn't unhook me right in front of a Ghoul, Blight, or Wraith with literally 60s still on my hook timer...
I will admit if I had some crystal ball way of knowing someone was gonna do that I'd probably ditch the lobby 🤣
-
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036979#Comment_4036979
What exactly is a "sub standard" build?
To answer the question, I would agree that rat and sabo builds would be dodge-worthy, because I know they're not planning to do the objective. I already dodge lobbies when all three of my teammates are bringing flashlights.
I was mostly just having fun 😏
However in seriousness, what you define as sub standard is up to you. However to assume someone will play a certain way and avoid said player is literally prejudice...
- Does having a Distortion or Lightweight immediately mean a Survivor will rat?
- Does having a sabotage bulld, or a boon build, or a plunderer build, or an invocation build mean the player is auto throwing?
- Does having an adept mean this player is a liability who is gonna throw the game?
You can make assumptions about this player, but that's all they are, assumptions... and even if you're right... why does that stop you from playing the game to the best of your ability? If anything, this is an opportunity to test yourself, and work on how you can play better.
Outside of my playful dig, it's not inaccurate to say avoiding a player because they MIGHT do something that hinders your chances of victory is gatekeeping the game at best, and cowardice at worst.
Legit if I was to see a David adept, I would straight up think "Alright David, let's go, we're getting you that adept". That to me is what a gamer should be striving to do.
-
None.
The only correct response for dodging cause you're afraid your teammates have a sub standard build:
😏
-
I have a medical condition where I am forced to cease and desist all hostile action towards a Survivor if they poke my nose.
Is quite debilitating sometimes...
-
There are a lot of scenarios this is real cheap and super easy... there are other scenarios this takes a lot of skill and very accurate aim control to pull off.
I'd be happier with it if his first injury wasn't free via the auto lock being removed, for the reasons that:
- If you're in a map with big dead zones and/or very few resources, you have 0 counterplay basically can't do anything in certain locations within the map.
- If you're a Kaneki player, accidentally grabbing a player while trying to make high skill lunge plays is a constant pain.
- Juking the grab would be actually rewarding at times, instead of just this annoying "just hit me already" interaction.
- Getting hit through a window and having him vault after you is fair enough cause he actually had to aim it instead of grab you for free, and functions basically like a Huntress hatchet, Alien tail, PH punishment or Nemmy Whip.
Heck, if they made his tentacles a skillshot, I'd be happy to buff him in return by giving him enraged mode on his m1s as well.... but this free grab is just ass.
-
Wait, I'm talking rubbish, nevermind, carry on xD
Redo: I think the change makes sense, if done in conjunction with other changes focused on her drone placement.
It never really made sense that you had to throw a drone randomly into the world any time you wanted Undetectable, but you didn't have enough buttons for Undetectable otherwise, so it makes this weird mixed purpose action.
If this was done in conjunction with stealth drones coming back, getting rid of the ring, maybe changing the low power mode add on to stay stationary while in stealth mode, and a bunch of other changes to generally make her drones better... then you've got some mechanisms that are starting to make sense.
-
There nothing funnier to me than being tunneled by a Wraith... and defiantly throwing a snowball in his face before you go down.
-
I'll tell you what I see aspiring killer main...
-
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036552#Comment_4036552
Sorry! I forgot that. The new iri would be the Severed Hands. It feels like it fits the category much better.
About extending the Flight Path, that means the distance at which crows deal damage without swarming. So with this addon, you can sort of snipe people and not have to deal with the two hits needed problem.
About Oil Paints, I could swap that effect with the one Ink Egg has, as one extra crow is not nearly as big of a thing as one would think.
Aaaaaah gotcha!
Noice!
-
@Moodyy said:
Nerfing SWF shouldnt be a thing because 99% of them are just goofing off and not taking it serious. It would be better to close the gap between swf and solo queue.
Ok... but how? There are changes that can be made to bridge the gap, things like perk sharing and Blindness can be looked at... however ultimately the core issue is whatever changes you make for SoloQ, you are buffing SWF too... so SoloQ can never catch up to SWF because nobody is willing to add any extra rules or compromise SWF in any way... Perks always have to be kept dialed back for SoloQ cause they are abusable by mass stacking in SWF.
Its basically not really possible to level out SWF and SoloQ unless you effectively give perfect information to the Survivor side at all times, and remove basically all gameplay elements related to reading the trial. This would obviously be ridiculous and insanely boring, effective info relaying is a skill in of itself... but where precisely do you cut off the SoloQ information limit in the name of closing the gap? Cause unless you remove all potential callout advantages the gap will never close.
The logical extreme of what I'm saying is to do things like:-
- Have permanent unlimited Bond on all Survivors at all times so no one has to call out their position.
- Have all killers, irrespective of stealth/undetectable, be revealed by the white aura whilstsoever another teammate can see them.
- Have all pallets that have been used have their splinters highlighted for all Survivors permanently.
- Have any gens touched by a fellow Survivor highlighted permanently, with the colour shifting to indicate progress.
- Any hex totems seen by any Survivor is now permanently highlighted fir all Survivors.
This is obviously incredibly asinine, but you see my point... this is what it would take to "bridge the gap" between soloQ and SWF... you simply just can't bring SoloQ up to SWFs level by only buffing soloQ. The only way you can is to impart additional rules on SWF to offset their comms advantage.... which no one wants to do because of a persecution complex.
-
@Skitten56 said:
I just really want something to stop survivors from constantly going into lockers. Dredge QoL really hurt the fun of getting cross map snipes since they always go into lockers.
An add-on suggested for this is nice, but I would love it if BHVR made it basekit that when survivors go into lockers while swarmed, the birds stick around for a bit (6-8ish seconds) and re-swarm if they immediately exit the locker.
I like that idea, and it solves the brown add on being a bit too good by shifting it so it could increase this basekit effect.
Maybe 4s base, to 6s with the add-on?
-
Addendum: Jeez... somehow I forgot to add an additional leech spreading mechanism. I had it in my mind, and just neglected to add it. So have added this to the concept;
Performing the Unhook/Healing action on a leeched Survivor causes the Survivor to also start building leech. For the duration of the Healing action the leech rate is increased by 50% (2.5c/s): This adds an extra layer of macro to the Krasue, as Survivors will want to bring shrooms with them for their teammate, but cannot get around the leech themselves by doing so. This puts strain on mushroom resources, and makes unhooking as Survivors who don't want to risk being found more problematic.
-
@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036558#Comment_4036558
Alien Instinct does that too. If you're in a locker it can't reveal you or make you oblivious, it will go to the next farthest injured survivor instead (if there is one, if not then the perk does nothing)
Now that I didn't know, I thought it would act like any other aura perk and still target you, but not reveal the aura. How interesting, cheers for that 😁🤘
-
If it wasn't countered by hiding in a locker, I would agree. But as it is, just hide in a locker and you can't become the Obsession.
Before anyone says this is too cryptic to figure out, getting in a locker is standard counterplay vs. scream perks.
-
@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035789#Comment_4035789
Yeah, I mean she's more managable in solo now. You have more time to react to her whip wind up, if she uses scamper you have a lot of time to step forward and revault tech and crouch tech also work against her.
True she is more managable... but she fell off uber hard after she got nerfed. She was pretty common on her release, cause she was insane strong... but now she has been nerfed, despite being still quite strong she is 27th in pick rate on Nightlight...
This is a pretty insane falloff for any killer... and the reason is quite simple... why play Krasue, who is basically just a dash killer with extra steps over the likes of Kaneki, Blight or Wesker?
Kaneki is stronger and easier, Blight is way stronger, and Wesker is similar strength but much more engaging with more skill expression.
Krasue is cookie cutter killer design, when you get down to it, she is just a 4.8 scamper bot with her spit being the only thing that changes anything up, and because her infection is meaningless, the spit doesn't bring anything engaging either.
Krasue does nothing to stand out on her own. She could have been poised to be the more chase oriented Plague... as is she just another dash killer with extra steps.
-
Just so people don't have to look add-ons up to understand what changed:
Severed Tongue basekit: Reduces your Slow-down time by -0.5 seconds after launching Dire Crows.
Choclo Corn: Increases the Timer before idle Dire Crows disintegrate by +2 seconds.
O Grief, O Lover: Swarmed Survivors suffer from the Exhausted Status Effect.
Silver Bell: Swarmed Survivors suffer the Oblivious status effect.
Ink Egg: Increases the number of summonable Dire Crows by +1. Reduces the Timer before idle Dire Crows disintegrate by -2 seconds.
Garden of Rot: Survivors suffer from the Exposed Status Effect for 4 seconds after repelling the Swarm.
Oil paints seems a little good for just a common...
Also is there a replacement iri missing, if Garden of Rot is being made very rare? And on that note, what does a 2m longer flight path mean exactly?
Otherwise sounds good to me!
-
Killers used to be made of sterner stuff...
Survivors too in fact...
Personally I feel like facing bully squads is a right of passage. Playing multiple Pig games fighting a full sabo/flashlight squads, if you're still being able to accept a Snoot Boop after that... you've officially made it in my book. ^🐽<
-
What saddens me the most is that Myers got reworked to remove all the unique things that a good number of people loved playing him for, despite his flaws... all in the name of making him more "competitive", so that players who play competitive killers can play him twice before dropping him to go back to their usual A and S tiers killers...
But what's done is done, and one has to accept when you aren't the target audience. GeneralV warned us not to get too attached, that the things you love can get taken away from you any time... I should have listened more carefully.
-
I support this suggestion solely because it is similar to how I would fix Lightborns hard counter nature, by allowing the killer to still be "blinded", but is instead immune to blind effects.
This would mean that Lightborn would have synergies with Shadowborn and Hex: Two Can Play, while also still being affected by Residual Manifest and Champion of Light.
That seems the best compromise for a perk that isn't strong while totally countering flashlights, where this now gives some synergies and some form of limited counterplay for survs.
-
Sounds awesome.
All Survivors in the match have been in the Dying State/hooked/dead for at least 25 seconds straight
I might suggest you change this to 35s, as Unbreakable is 23.70s and Plot Twist is 25.6s to recover. If there are ever any other perks that allow a self pick up at the regular recovery rate, the speed is 32s. Admittedly the scenarios this could go wrong are quite unrealistic, but it is possible.
But otherwise, sounds pretty good man!
-
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035543#Comment_4035543
Well, considering that he announces it both visually and by audio (Exposed Icon and the Tier Up sound), I'd say he wouldn't have any worries about stealth by that point.
Unless he would run Tombstone Piece.
This is true, sorry, old Myers comes into my brain more often xD
-
Typo in that
The undetectable after teleporting should be 5 seconds, not 10.
Was meant to be
The undetectable after teleporting should be 10 seconds, not 5.
Everything seems pretty darned good. I really like Violet Waxcap. Demo's weakness is obviously at circular loops, but this would be a nice tool to swing at hold Ws.
I would also appreciate giving an input buffer to Demo's shred. The number of times I have cancelled an important shred hit by getting too excited is painful.
Solid updates man!
-
@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035535#Comment_4035535
I would compare this to old Chucky, Old Krasue was overtuned but now is somewhat fine. Surely with recent Myers there is no reason to play Chucky anymore, so I'll leave Krasue as she is to those few players who like the thai culture
I'm 100 with you on Myers/Chucky.
Not so sure about the Thai culture statement though... considering I'm specifically asking for the elements of her kit that are derived from Thai culture actually become part of her kit, instead of little more than trial scenery...
She is at least passable... but she is very "eh..." in her current form. Very little unique or interesting about her. She basically plays like a non existent cooldown Unknown for a few seconds, looking for an environment bounce on her ranged shot, before becoming a 4.8m/s OG Scamper Chucky with no cooldown…
If the point of each killer is to be unique, Krasue is doing a pretty poor job given half her mechanics literally don't matter, and the ones that do are just jacked up versions of existing killers.
-
@SoGo said:
Edit 2:
Swapped some add-ons around, added some changes to make Myers feel more fair and more thematic.
Mirror Shard seems like the scream giving away your EW3 might be more of a detriment than a plus…
Though it might be good for hex builds I suppose 🤔🤔🤔
Otherwise, good kek. 🤘
-
I always held the opinion this would make SWF more interesting, where you have to decide between you which perks you're gonna take each.
Some people for some reason see it as a "punishment", whereas I just see it as a rule that makes the game more interesting...
The argument that always made me laugh is "well what if someone insists on keeping/gating all teh best perks for themselves?". Erm... doesn't sound like much of a friend in your Survive With Friends group? You're an adult? You can leave... 😐
But hey ho...
-
Also to anyone downvoting, I would appreciate an explanation why if you'd be so kind?
I would happily debate with you, but you've currently given me nothing to work with... So to cover the only arguments I can think of:
- Don't want to have to land multiple hits. Plague seems to manage fine having to land multiple hits, and she's not got a movement speed steroid on demand. She has shorter range, no auto tracking, pretty much the same cooldown and a longer wind up time than Krasue... and she has to also down as an m1 killer afterwards, so I don't see an issue here.
- Don't want to deal with broken. It takes 3 hits of regurgitate to become broken. Again that's about the same as Plague, and unlike Plague, shrooms can be eaten on the move. Not to mention hitting you in Head form is probably faster. Once you're hooked, broken is removed as you go back to partial infection... so broken isn't really a game breaker... what difference is it being broken and injured and just being Injured if you're already in chase?
- This makes Krasue too weak. Again Plague seems to work perfectly fine, and I see no reason why this Krasue would struggle any more than Plague. We're introducing some slowdown mechanics and making body blocking less effective vs. Krasue too. Numbers can be always be tweaked, it's more the concept that matters.
- Krasue isn't about infection, that's Plague game. So she's just a dash/scamper killer with extra steps? I don't feel like that really makes her stand out amongst the myriad of other killers that do what she does already. The most striking part of her kit is the green fungi, which is clearly an important part of the characters lore/mythos, as is the leech mechanic... why have it at all if it doesn't matter for her power?
Other than that I don't know where the push back is coming from... She could be a nice midground between Plague and Wesker with these changes, where Plague is full infection gameplay, Wesker is mostly chase with a little infection, while Krasue is half infection, half chase...
If that vision is the wrong way, I'm interested in other ideas... but as it stands I can't escape the feeling her whole leech system feels kinda tacked on now it is removed when hooked, and she's otherwise just a 4.8 scamper bot with extra steps.
-
@Elan said:
I've played Krasue a lot. The proposal of her being 4.4 is fine, but I don't think she needs multiple reg. hits to inflict leech one. The nerfed autoaim is sometimes pretty inconsistent and direct hits are way harder mid looping. I think the leech 2 is overall pointless to have, because it's just punishment for people who ignore it long enough. At the same point though I don't like the idea of spamming reg to force someone into leech 2. What I would do:
→ Increase time it takes to reach leech 2 from 60s to 70s
→ If leech 2 is gained, survivors can't decrease leech meter by eating glowing fungi anymore and leech will only be removed when hooked.
→ Decrease glowing fungi max count to 4 so survivors actually have to run for them in order to use them, currently there are 6 and if 4 survivors hold one, 2 will be respawning.
→ Chicken head will still increase fungi count by 2
Fair play that man, given you play her, I do will concede the changes I propose removes a lot of her current identity... I don't see her really after the remove leech on hook change, and I gave a suggestion that makes her more interesting to me to consider playing her as a more unique chase oriented infection killer.
Her current version to me is decidedly uninteresting. You spit, you tag, you change, you chase as a vaulting 4.8 killer with an easy to control and very deadly lunge. No one bothers to remove the infection, cause you get instantly full infected, and it's removed automatically when you get hooked. You're better off moving round the loop instead of trying to use a shroom in chase, and you don't need one out of chase. So the mechanic is pointless. Your changes don't assist that, in fact they just further reinforce it.
The regurgitate far as I can see is effectively just busy work, a minor stumble block to limit her very strong chase power from being on all the time.
With my changes the only thing that really changes is you Whip someone as you find them to start their leech, then go back to normal form to try for the regurgitate to take them up to 100 leech. Now you have options, you can keep going for regurgitate and try to injure as a 4.4 ranged spitter, or you can switch back to head form and go back to lunging, as a spit and a lunge is enough to take over 100.
This version also let's you run around in head form just tagging people to infect them, something that did nothing before, but now is actually viable. The whole thing becomes mot interesting.
However if you like her current iteration, then fair play, I'm happy to concede.
-
1- He absolutely needs his getting caught in trap mechanic removed with making Makeshift Wrap basekit, his traps shouldn't ever be a detriment to Trapper himself. This is an outdated mechanic that makes Trapper less accessible to new Killers, when he is supposed to be the entry killer for new players.
2- Injuring healthy survivors who disarm I don't think is necessary, at lower levels of play the automatic injury is pretty damned strong and makes Trapper overly punishing on newer players (again, he's supposed to be the entry killer).
For more experienced players you have the Iri to help with particular builds, it's a good iri, but isn't really necessary basekit if you start getting good with Trapper. You'rea pure m1 killer, so often good Survivors will loop you fine when injured anyway, and where you catch them is in those weird traps they dont expect that gives you an immediate down.
What he does need though is Serrated Jaws basekit, so that people getting caught in traps afar have to mend from deep wound. He should always get SOMETHING if someone gets caught our of his effective range, and Deep Wound gives him a little slowdown, as well as introducing the Deep Wound mechanic to new players.
3- I'm always vehemently against Trappers Sack basekit, as that encourages a very specific playstyle, and makestrappimg up basement extrmely nasty on Trapper. It's already very oppressive if he traps basement, and this removes even the chance of getting a teammate out before they are locked in.
Optimising his pathing to efficiently collect and set up his traps is one of the only real areas of unique skill expression that Trapper has, its overly punishing on him granted in current DBD, but it is still an important part of his identity and gameplay.
I'd prefer to be granted the ability to grab the furthest unset away from me out of a locker on a 30-45s cooldown, just so if all my paths to traps are bad, I can get a potentially better path heading past a locker instead. If I could also optionally mark the trap to pick it out the locker instead in addition, even better. It would lower this pain point on him while still retaining his unique skill expression.… and for those that want to bypass this, we have the purple add-on.
Totally with you on his Mori... that needs an Overhaul badly. If it were me...
I would have him stand over the downed Survivor as they try to get up on their hands and knees, then hack his machete deep into the back of their leg, pinning it to the ground.
As they scream in paun, he grabs the top of their head in a fist and as they try to struggle, he throws a set trap under their face, before grabbing their shoulder/neck with his other hand and overpowering them to force them face first into the bear trap.
Having his cold dead mask next to their fave as he does it could look awesome. If you know your lore as well Evan is a reluctant servant of the Entity. A shot from behind of him standing up afterwards and looking down almost pitying the dead Survivor before grabbing his machete would go hard.
-
@SoGo said:
This idea does solve the issue of Leeched being basically just a roadblock.
I like it, but I do see a small side problem: as Regurgitate has a very fast cooldown and Krasue can recover fast from it, it may end up creating a strategy of spitting at survivors from point blank/using some maps large amount of geometry to quickly shred through health states by using Regurgitate over and over and then just M1 downing.
Yo lad!
That was a concern I did have initially, but when I thought about it more, I realised I have often had an easier time juking the Regurgitate than her Intestinal Whip, I have actual dodged her Regurgitate quite few times... unless she has something to bounce it off, its a tricky shot at a number of tiles... Once she has her leech however, I have rarely lasted long at all against her Head form. I might beat the whip once, maybe twice, but any more than that, I'm struggling, and it's so fast, the relative time is a punishing.
Meanwhile at 4.4 in base form, she needs at least 3 Regurgitate hits to reach the max leech 200 charges efficiently to get the broken/health state effect... which is a lot... She is also much more vulnerable to hold W in this form, and likely has to switch to catch up, whivh as well as spawning fungi, is giving the Survivor more opportunity to decide where they want to go to try and avoid her projectiles, coupled with the facther m1 down capacity is dimished heavily. Trying to go for a triple regurgitate, as I say, maybe gives a chance to try to eat a mushroom.
I was actually quite concerned this was an overnerf as I was putting it together... I'm just hoping the leech mushroom slowdown would be enough compensation for the areas of her kit where she is a little more deficient... 😅
-
@Royval said:
ghoul is probably the most fair strong killer in the game with him being an m1 killer with injure you guys need to learn how to play against him.
You're not really wrong, Ghoul does have more counterplay than other S tiers. A God Blight and a God Nurse will completely overshadow him with how oppressive they are, played to their max potential there is basically nothing a Survivor can do to avoid a hit. Ghoul isn't quite like this, but they can achieve similar results with far less skill and effort. As long as the Ghoul knows what they're doing and has a half decent aim, they can force a Survivor to basically play perfect, or die.
You don't run into a God Blight or a God Nurse very often, which means often you can actually have some close calls against Nurse and Blight and actually have some good runs time to time. Ghoul has this super clever high skill input loop cut off thing with his grapples... but it can also just land next to you in a dead zone with nothing you can do to avoid the hit. He also has his really cheap vault and his free injure that can burn down your resources by attrition... and this is the way most Ghouls play. This has counterplay but it only takes 1 very minor mistake against Ghoul and you're going down cause you only get 1 shot.
You almost never get any of the crazy high skill cut offs, but instead its the lazy walk after you, burning resources until you the next respurce is too far to make with no way to avoid a hit. Once your pallets are gone, you're far past screwed, and you're also often screwed by Bamboozle and/or Dissolution so you don't even really have that counterplay either, cause Ghoul can just zone you into vaulting the pallet for a free hit. Survivors can't leave, cause they just get landed next to and die.
This means the Ghoul can prevent most counterplay options the Survivor has, but with effectively no real skill on the Ghoul's part... as long as he isn't completely inept and knows what he's doing and how to zone, Survivors get this mundane boring killer, that plays like a dolt 90% of the time because he can force you wherever he wants just walking all the time, and just take perks to take away the few counterplay options you have left.
-
I still think No Mither should be changed to start the trial helathy and only make you permanently broken once injured, instead of injured from the start of the trial.
At least then you can adjust your strategy to playing much more cautious if you are against certain killers, and could be hidden as Moment of Glory or an Invocation, or other such perks. Maybe even goes unnoticed via Forced Penance, or Plague.
Would also stop people complaining about it every single Chaos Shuffle cycle.
-
If you build for it, you can get 74% self unhook chance across 6 attempts with Slippery Meat, Up the Ante and a Vigo' Lips offering, without any support from your team... which is just silly to me.
Frankly, you could even take its current effect off it in exchange for this and it'd still be much better, though at that point some small secondary effect would probably be fair to give it.
This is a direction I agree with.
Before the AFC was reworked, I would have given this perk an extra 4m on the killer AFC radius and have every 15% of AFC progress pause the sacrifice timer for 4 seconds as a basekit anti-camp perk, since the only other perks that provide this are Reassurance and Camaradarie, which are both paywall perks.
However with the AFC change this doesn't work so well as the AFC scales geometrically as long as the killer remains in range... maybe the extra range might be enough? Not sure.
-
Yeah I'm not sure that is necessary at all man.
Many aura perks don't have a tell at all, whereas FttE is pretty obvious when you see the Obsession get hooked and the Obsession changes, accompanied with a scream as well. The exposed effect is only really relevant to the person who has been exposed, until you become the Obsession, your only concern from FttE is the scream when you become the Obsession allowing you to be found, the exposed doesn't happen until are already the Obsession.
Once you are the Obsession, you can hide in lockers to avoid the aura read, and you know it's coming when a teammate gets picked up. You can even hide in lockers to avoid becoming the Obsession as well. FttE has plenty of counter play.
This is an unnecessary nerf to FttE man... If SoloQ Survivors are being petty and getting mad at you for hiding in lockers, instead of doing generators, that is a 100% skill issue on their part, and not something you concern yourself with.
I see Survivors doing genuinely dumb crap all the time, but what do I do? Follow them shaking my head and being an idiot as well? Or carry on doing what needs to be done to win?
I see someone doing a dull totem, do I get mad? No. Maybe they have Inner Strength. Maybe Overzealous. Maybe they have counterforce and suspect NOED. Players who badger other players, get petty and waste time voicing their disapproval instead of getting on with the game deserve to lose.
-
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034917#Comment_4034917
I don't consider S tech to be the targeted counterplay.
Hag already has a counterplay that is intended: wiping traps away.
S Tech is, imo, the same as crouch tech. The much easier counterplay that was never supposed to be a thing. The only difference is that Hag is much weaker than say, Blight, Billy or Krasue, and also has additional counterplay that works every time.
I only have 1 like to give. I wish I could give more...
Bait triggering a trap is always gonna be an option, there is no way to remove that I feel without making traps pretty unfair...
However that said, I don't mind if someone deliberately runs into a trap and times it with their inputs to bait a TP and miss from the Hag, as that takes actual skill to do, and most importantly... to realistically get away with it, they either need god like reflexes or they need to know the trap is there to be able to effectively time a bait and run. The main difference is do you want the Hag to know about it, or not? I unironically run Unrelenting on Hag in case I get caught this way, and that seems entirely fair.
However what really upsets me with S tech is the Survivor can literally run blind, not looking out for traps at all, have no idea its there, and still tech me automatically without any skill or even any change of input at all. 😭
I don't mind being S-teched as a principle if the Survivor has to actually do something to do it... but in its current form, imagine a Trapper trap where as long as you aren't looking at it, you automatically turn around instead of stepping into it and the trap snaps shut... it's just ridiculous this is an option 🥺
-
@SoGo said:
The way I would "solve" it is by speeding up the Hag by 10 or even 15% for a few seconds after she teleports to a tripped trap.
They can't S tech against a 120/125% killer, right?
Also an acceptable alternative solution, though it does comes with some additonal trade offs.
Having a speed boost gives Hag a lot of compensation that hurts people not using S tech disproportionately. A lot of using Hag traps is in your quick reaction decision making, and if the Hag is doing other things and a Survivor hits a trap, she has to decide immediately whether to take the trap or not. A speed boost would reduce that window and make it easier for her to score hits in general with slower reaction times, which might be a little much on none S tech users.
It also allows for a wider net on trap placement at loops to effectively zone. If she gets a speed boost after taking it, it means she can place traps more central at loops and cover a greater effective distance cause she has the ability to close the gap faster once the trap is triggered.
Those things aren't necessarily bad, but they are factors to consider. 😅
@Jay_Whyask said:
You wanna keep the camera jerk‽
You gotta be the first person I've seen who likes it. 🤯
I still think the best change she can get is removing the movement penalty after teleporting.
Having to stand still after teleporting to somebody is so clunky & frustrating.
I think it does a good job of disorientating and jump scaring me... I am always alarmed when I hit a trap I didn't expect, and the camera jerk assists with that jump scare. I also don't want to remove the ability to bait trigger a trap, but I want it to take actual skill by takimg a glancing paths and timing inputs to change direction. It's too easy to do with both no camera jerk, and full camera jerk.
I also as a Hag player like using traps as a flashlight protector, cause it messes up pathing and aiming the flasglight, which as a 4.4 melee killer is very much needed. It's one of the many reasons I don't want to use Rusty Shackles... along with: -
- the fact I hate the fact it removes the jump scare
- that it allows the Hag player to leisurely take a triggered Trap and removes the snap decision making of Hags gameplay...
- its also a pain cause it loses the familiar crack of a trap and means I have to stare at the bottom of my screen for the input prompt
-
Clearly this man has the Survival Instincts of an overly ripe tomato.
-
@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034490#Comment_4034490
It's about not wasting time with looking for blocked gens. In a SWF, you can split up and call out which generators are blocked, which comes really handy. In SoloQ, two survivors run a common gen spawn just to see its blocked, which is wasted time.
The problem is that reducing map size, as well as being MUCH more work that BHVR won't do for years, if ever, is it still favours faster killers massively. Look at a map like Dead Sands or Haddonfield. These maps are small and tough to beat even m1 killers on because you often in the process of looping step on your teammates toes doing gens. On your meta picks, these maps are a done deal, you aren't breaking anything, and Survivors are getting run over on these maps unless they are an uber coordinated SWF ensuring they aren't bringing the killer across progressing gen targets.
Corrupt is a perk that primarily benefits m1 killers, allows us to have map variety, and is a universal effect that once the killer gets a down disables. It smoothes out the differences between all killers and maps to be more consistent on the pressure both sides can exert at the start of the trial.
Haddonfield is a special map. The middle is a very important part that can give the killer a lot of information if the survivors don't pay much attention to their positions or if you managed to hook a survivor in the open. However, the main issue on this map are the generators because you will always have three generators in a building (house of pain, mainbuilding, and in both other houses). There is also a generator sometimes behind a building. You only have the two generators on the street and the one to mainbuilding that are easy to check. The other ones are difficult to check and you need to go to them to know if someone is working on them. In addition, these generators are also difficult to reach. So, the main issue for this map is not the size (it is completely fine even for non-mobility killers) but the gen position. Dead Sand, on the other hand, has good visibility on generators and you can check them from afar and sometimes you have good gen position to defend them. For M1 killers, completely fine.
However, basekit Corrupt is just a band aid fix because after the 60 seconds basekit, Ormond or Badham are still insanely large and gens are difficult to check. I would rather have smaller maps than basekit Corrupt. Sure, this takes some time but I rather have a good solution than a solution that is still bad. The killer that cause more problems due to their mobility are primarily Nurse and Blight which still need a change. In addition, I don't wanna have tiny maps, I wanna have maps that are inbetween Saloon and Ormond Lake Mine.
What is "playing good" in this scenario? Killing off a Survivor ASAP? I thought the general opinion was that tunneling doesn't take much skill to do, especially as a full sweat Blight or Nurse. This is an higher tier killer problem, as higher tiers can tunnel out a Survivor while still retaining all of their strong perk effects.
M1 killers don't tend to get the value out of these perks to anywhere near the same degree. It is not at all uncommon to never get the full Grim Embrace or all Pain Res uses before the gens all pop on m1 killers. If the goal is to decentivise tunneling, you have to give reasons to not just tunnel a Survivor out if you want to curb tunneling. The perks being strong, but disabling if you tunnel someone out is another layer on the reasons we're trying to hit here.
You said that PainRes and GE deactivate when a survivor dies - correct me if I'm wrong but there is no mentioned of "if you tunnel". There is a huge difference when a survivor dies at three hooks or when survivor A has two hooks, survivor B as one hook, survivor C has two hooks, and survivor D dies at one generator. What is the point of playing nice but still getting punished, especially with the risk that I might still have two PainRes token left due to bad hook RNG but I might get it on the last hook to deny the last gen from popping. You also don't make killers stop tunneling by giving to perks this requirement as there are still other ones.
These actions are significantly faster than gens. Chests take only an asditonal 2 seconds, totems take an additional 3.5s, and both cases these can be loaded up/partially loaded beforehand. The effect could be limited to repairs and healing mind you.
But still. There is no reason to shadow nerf fair perks and encourage players to only run the strongest perks in the game (SB, Lithe, UB, Conviction, Vigil ect.). If anything, it should be the opposite that strong perks should be limited and fair perks are easier.
I also wanna have old Mangeled and Haemorrhage back. The timer nerf was the worst thing ever as it made so many addons, perks, and builds useless for no reason while Survivors go many strong healing perks or buffs.
I get that and I did consider Resurgence. I only didn't touch it because a Survivor being healed quickly off hook, is itself an inventive not to tunnel, especially if they now have this Conspicuous Action Penalty. But I do feel this perk was always good in the first place, especially since Sloppy Butcher got nerfed.
Resurgence was always a good perk but no one used it because it wasn't op at this point. Then, the devs overbuffed it so it became an op perk and nowadays player use it.
The difference is still that you have more slowdown when a survivor needs at least 8, 10, or normal 16 seconds to heal the unhooked survivor instead of three seconds. On a more personal opinion note, it is also so stupid that a survivor can be healed in three seconds after getting unhooked.
This one is on my radar... I haven't thought of a better idea than limiting it to yellow auras on Survivors, red Survivor auras go through... and ofc white auras for killer items. That's clunky and inelegant though... but might just have to be a compromise.
My suggestion was to split aura reading in teammate and general aura reading: Blindness no longer affects teammate aura (hooked survivor, bond, Emphatic Connection ect.) but only general aura reading (Deja Vu, WoO, killer aura from Kindred or Wire Trap). In the same way, we could buff other perks with an additional Blindness bonus to make them better.
I don't disagree, I hate how Krasue's power is pointless busy work really... but currently I don't have a better idea sadly 🥺
Me too. I always thought it should be like Wesker that the unhooked survivor has infection at 1%, which still prevents a tunnel but still gives the fungus slowdown.
It's about not wasting time with looking for blocked gens. In a SWF, you can split up and call out which generators are blocked, which comes really handy. In SoloQ, two survivors run a common gen spawn just to see its blocked, which is wasted time.
I mean that's not an impossible outcome... however I think your not thinking about how DBD is now and how it would be with this change. Remember all Survivors spawn together now in the same location, and also know that Corrupt is in place because now its there every single game.
You also know the ones near you in vast majority of cases are gonna be blocked, and that means everyone has to go out into the map to find a gen, and if you go out to the gens, Survivors discover the same gens at the same time even in a SWF. Going apart, by the time you verify that a gen is available, another Survivor walking the opposite direction is more often than not better off carrying on to find another instead of banking back to the gen you've found... the value of the callout is basically trivial.
So, the main issue for this map is not the size (it is completely fine even for non-mobility killers) but the gen position. Dead Sand, on the other hand, has good visibility on generators and you can check them from afar and sometimes you have good gen position to defend them
Yes, but isn't this the issue of these maps? Positioning is a moot point on a mobile killer, in order to break 3 gens, you must take the killer away from gens to break the middle of the map. Sometimes that means not looping optimally at every tile and taking a hit you could otherwise avoid, just to make sure you can actually get the killer away from a key gen at the right moment. Same thing for tunneling, its so important to ensure you take the killer as far from hooks as you can, even if you have to expend a helath state to do it, so that them returning to tunnel is as costly as it can be... That doesn't work if all maps are small, you can't effectively take the killer away, especially if they're highly mobile.
Though... I don't disagree with you regarding Ormond and Badham, they are too big, and you have aimed for Dead Dawg and alike... whivh is smart... however the point remains, that even on these maps, Corrupt is the biggest equaliser for m1 killers and lower mobility killers. It means you don't get bum rushed out of gate and lose 2 or 3 gens on your first chase. If you play M1 killers regularly, there isn't a single perk that helps you out more that Corrupt, whether Survivors hide through it, or rush into the map, or whatever. There is no perk that helps them get a foot in the game better, and it doesn't really help S tiers... the value of Corrupt dimishes vastly if you can down in 20s flat.
You said that PainRes and GE deactivate when a survivor dies - correct me if I'm wrong but there is no mentioned of "if you tunnel". There is a huge difference when a survivor dies at three hooks or when survivor A has two hooks, survivor B as one hook, survivor C has two hooks, and survivor D dies at one generator.
That's not an unreasonable point, you could give it minimum hook requirement, though that is getting clunky. I believe this downside is much simpler to understand, and is why I also buffed the perks regression value to compensate. By taking this perk, one of the stronger regression perks in the game, this is the agreed trade off the perk gives; you can decide to take a kill before your 4th pain res, or keep hunting for the last pain res. It gives reasons to invest in particular aura perks to make sure you can get all 4 procs, or use other perks instead that don't have that limitation... the perk doesn't die because of it, it becomes a factor of your build, and decentivises stacking full slowdown. Having such a tangible downside allows greater potential strength, with an appropriate trade off, this is what encourages diversity as you may opt for ab"safer" but less strong perk instead.
My more subjective personal opinion is that this also evens up the value of the perk between S tiers vs. lower tiers. M1 killers do not generally get the full benefit of pain res and grim embrace, especially if they don't stretch their already limited perk budget to assist in finding people and/or improving their chase... while S tier killers do, and can do so even while happily tunneling away, where a 20% remote regression vs. a 3 man is absolutely devastating.
But still. There is no reason to shadow nerf fair perks and encourage players to only run the strongest perks in the game (SB, Lithe, UB, Conviction, Vigil ect.). If anything, it should be the opposite that strong perks should be limited and fair perks are easier.
Yeah that's reasonable. I'd happily rejig the basekit effect to be healing and gen repair only.
I also wanna have old Mangeled and Haemorrhage back. The timer nerf was the worst thing ever as it made so many addons, perks, and builds useless for no reason while Survivors go many strong healing perks or buffs.
// ...
Resurgence was always a good perk but no one used it because it wasn't op at this point. Then, the devs overbuffed it so it became an op perk and nowadays player use it.
The timer nerf was the worst thing ever as it made so many addons, perks, and builds useless for no reason while Survivors go many strong healing perks or buffs.
Preaching to the choir on that one man. XD
I didn't get why anti healing perks got nerfed while healing perks got buffed up the wazzoo… and admitted all that I got really annoyed that Botany got made even better than all these really strong options.
I'm not keen on the permanent effect, but I don't get why you buff one side and nerf the other aides counter... makes more sense from a anti-tunnel initiative... but that's what we already hope to solve with these changes so... hope?
My suggestion was to split aura reading in teammate and general aura reading: Blindness no longer affects teammate aura (hooked survivor, bond, Emphatic Connection ect.) but only general aura reading (Deja Vu, WoO, killer aura from Kindred or Wire Trap). In the same way, we could buff other perks with an additional Blindness bonus to make them better.
To be fair... maybe BHVR are onto it with these white auras they brought in for Springtrap ... perhaps they switch all game critical auras to white auras, and these are not affected by Blindness... but all other auras are. That seems pretty clean... I might make that suggestion. 😅
Me too. I always thought it should be like Wesker that the unhooked survivor has infection at 1%, which still prevents a tunnel but still gives the fungus slowdown.
Yeah that works better. Nice.
Just wanna say, even if we don't see 100% eye to eye man, has been fun to debate with yourself! 😁🤘
-
@HolyDarky said:
However, before I begin, I am of the opinion you can't really fix tunneling and slugging, they essentially key fundamental elements of the game, there will always be a time where you need to do things to create pressure
Agree. Many people, the devs included, just try to remove tunneling and slugging from the game which is just not possible, it is part of the game and by trying to removing it, it will cause unhealthy issues or lose of skill expression. In my opinion, the goal should be to reduce it while removing the extremes like hard tunnling (hooking the same survivor three times in a row) while slugging gets solved by itself when hooking becomes better again.
Killer Buff: Add Corrupt Intervention partially basekit. Lasts for 60s.
I don't like that because it will make some maps (mainly indoor-maps) so much wrose while also increasing the gap between SoloQ and SWF. The last thing we need is a more unfair SoloQ experience. Instead, the devs should rework maps to make them less miserable in terms of size. For example, Saloon, Toba Landing, or Ormond Lake Mine are fair maps when it comes to size but Ormond Resort or Badham are way too big/lare and by the time you reach a gen, it is almost done.
Survivor Nerf: The Entity Accursed Survivor suffers a 20% Conspicuous Action Penalty as the Entity feasts on their soul.
There is already the issue that this also means a huge nerf to many fair perks such as Inner Strengh, Moment of Glory, or any other other perk that has something to do with a totem or chest.
I also just dislike the "slower gen"-penalty because from the survivor pov, this is just boring. In addition, if you hook a survivor that is pro-active with flashlight or pallet rescue, the penalty means nothing. In fact, survivors can abuse this feature and put the killer in a lose-lose-situation.
There is also the risk of unhealthy synergies of Mangeled and Gift of Pain to make healing/doing gens even more boring alongside the penalty.
Survivor Perk changes:
Deliverance: Perk Rework. If you are hooked while Entity Accursed, your AFC bar is filled immediately to 100% and you can unhook yourself. Disables for the rest of the trial after a successful self unhook.
Dead Hard: If used while Entity Accursed, the perk will only disable once you are no longer Entity Accursed.
good changes.
Fast Track: Gain an additional 0/1/2 tokens if the survivor hooked was Entity Accursed.
That perk needs a rework anyway because it is just a bad design. By the time you get value from it, the match is basically over. Instead, it should reward the player for good changes. Quick suggestion: "For every 15% gen-progress your team is doing while you're in chase, you gain 1 token and each token gives a generator instantly 3% progress". Numbers can be changed to make it fair and balanced but the perk should work in a rewarding doing good way, not in a rewarding for doing bad way.
Grim Embrace: Perk disables when a Survivor dies.
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance: Buffed to 25% gen regression. Perk disables when a Survivor dies.
No, it is just a bad design when the killer gets punished for doing good. Both perks are fair and don't need this nerf as they have a fair requirement. In addition, PainRes relies so hard on RNG and on maps like Midwich, it is really difficult to get them. So, both perks are fine and don't need a nerf.
Save The Best For Last: Buffed back to 5% per stack. Hitting a basic attack on a Entity Accursed Survivor will grant a stack on a non Obsession Survivor, but will not recover faster.
I would kill for pre-nerf STBFL. However, the 5%-issue was that it made camping much stronger. It should go back to pre-nerf-version but with the downside that it does not work next to a hooked survivor to not make camping to strong.
Missing issues:
Resurgence needs a nerf because this perk punishes the killer for hooking and not tunnelling. A survivor should never be able to be fully healed in two seconds after unhook.
The 70 seconds hook-timer is still an issue: If you want a match where the killer has time to go for different survivors, they should also gain the pressure from a hooked survivor. Currently, a survivor on hook is completely fine and their teammates can just sit on gens and get them done while still having enough time to unhook.
SoloQ and SWF gab: SoloQ needs more basekit aura reading to deal better with slugging or hooking situations. The big difference between SWF and SoloQ is that SWF has less downtime because they know who is going for the resuce and when or if they need help or just sit on gens. It would also make the game so much easier to balance when we have a baseline when it comes to survivor. Currently, the devs tried to give so much op basekit anti-stuff to survivors based on SoloQ, which would have been broken when used by either SWF or strong SoloQ players. The best QoL stuff/buff you can give is that type that helps weaker players but is useless for the stronger ones.
There is still the issue that hooking feels clunky in many situations and survivors can put you in a lose lose situation when they go down under a pallet. Sometimes you also slug because you don't have the time to hook. This means, BGP needs a nerf, picking up and carrying should be faster than currently.
Blindness needs a rework if you wanna reduce slugging since Blindness is so strong against SoloQ and makes slugging so much easier.
Some killers like Singularity or Krasue gets punished for hooking survivors and need a compensation for it. In general, some killers should get some hooking rewards.
Cheers for the feedback man, some point I do agree with there, though some I don't. To tackle the ones I don't:
I don't like basekit Corrupt because it will make some maps (mainly indoor-maps) so much wrose while also increasing the gap between SoloQ and SWF. The last thing we need is a more unfair SoloQ experience. Instead, the devs should rework maps to make them less miserable in terms of size.
I don't really see how corrupt increases the gap between SoloQ and SWF, all Survivors regardless of SWF or not have to brave the centre of the map to start working on gens. That doesn't change whether you're SWF or not. Anyone with experience enough to make valid map flcallouts on gen locations in a SWF, is not someone who is gonna struggle finding gens in SoloQ.
The problem is that reducing map size, as well as being MUCH more work that BHVR won't do for years, if ever, is it still favours faster killers massively. Look at a map like Dead Sands or Haddonfield. These maps are small and tough to beat even m1 killers on because you often in the process of looping step on your teammates toes doing gens. On your meta picks, these maps are a done deal, you aren't breaking anything, and Survivors are getting run over on these maps unless they are an uber coordinated SWF ensuring they aren't bringing the killer across progressing gen targets.
Corrupt is a perk that primarily benefits m1 killers, allows us to have map variety, and is a universal effect that once the killer gets a down disables. It smoothes out the differences between all killers and maps to be more consistent on the pressure both sides can exert at the start of the trial.
There is already the issue that this also means a huge nerf to many fair perks such as Inner Strengh, Moment of Glory, or any other other perk that has something to do with a totem or chest.
These actions are significantly faster than gens. Chests take only an asditonal 2 seconds, totems take an additional 3.5s, and both cases these can be loaded up/partially loaded beforehand. The effect could be limited to repairs and healing mind you.
I also just dislike the "slower gen"-penalty because from the survivor pov, this is just boring. In addition, if you hook a survivor that is pro-active with flashlight or pallet rescue, the penalty means nothing. In fact, survivors can abuse this feature and put the killer in a lose-lose-situation.
I see what you're saying but the fact is, if you want tunneling reduced, you have to make the unhooked Survivor a less desirable target somehow. There is only 1 killer... they can only be in chase with 1 person, and if you want that person to not be the easiest person to kill off, having that Survivor being less effective at pushing gens compared yo everyone else while you chase other Survivors is a genuine incentive not to tunnel that Survivor. You could just as well argue that without such a penalty to repair speed the other Survivors are stuck crunching gens, while 1 Survivors gets all the action... isn't that worse?
The unhook bonuses only come in after you are unhooked a second time from consecutive hooks from the killer, and even that only gives you double the base BT... Being on Death hook and playing aggressive when a single other unique hook is all the killer needs to kill you off... is a risk that the Survivor has a right to take if they desire, but it is hardly oppressively abusable any more than OTR used to be.
There is also the risk of unhealthy synergies of Mangeled and Gift of Pain to make healing/doing gens even more boring alongside the penalty.
These effects/perks are niche at best currently. Especially with the pelthora of healing perks, mangled basically does nothing. When was the last time you used mangled in a build because you actually wanted mangled? GoP may need a look to tone down a tad, but again, that's not something that couldn't be tweaked with this effect in mind, however the fact is the stacked effect can only be on 1 Survivor at a time, and only serves to make this Survivor even less of a target.
No, it is just a bad design when the killer gets punished for doing good. Both perks are fair and don't need this nerf as they have a fair requirement.
What is "playing good" in this scenario? Killing off a Survivor ASAP? I thought the general opinion was that tunneling doesn't take much skill to do, especially as a full sweat Blight or Nurse. This is an higher tier killer problem, as higher tiers can tunnel out a Survivor while still retaining all of their strong perk effects.
M1 killers don't tend to get the value out of these perks to anywhere near the same degree. It is not at all uncommon to never get the full Grim Embrace or all Pain Res uses before the gens all pop on m1 killers. If the goal is to decentivise tunneling, you have to give reasons to not just tunnel a Survivor out if you want to curb tunneling. The perks being strong, but disabling if you tunnel someone out is another layer on the reasons we're trying to hit here.
Resurgence needs a nerf because this perk punishes the killer for hooking and not tunnelling. A survivor should never be able to be fully healed in two seconds after unhook.
I get that and I did consider Resurgence. I only didn't touch it because a Survivor being healed quickly off hook, is itself an inventive not to tunnel, especially if they now have this Conspicuous Action Penalty. But I do feel this perk was always good in the first place, especially since Sloppy Butcher got nerfed.
The 70 seconds hook-timer is still an issue
Also don't disagree here, but this too gives a string reason to go off and pursue other Survivors instead of lingering near hook. I think it was a bit much, but I didn't want to deviate from the goal with this thread 😅
Blindness needs a rework if you wanna reduce slugging since Blindness is so strong against SoloQ and makes slugging so much easier.
This one is on my radar... I haven't thought of a better idea than limiting it to yellow auras on Survivors, red Survivor auras go through... and ofc white auras for killer items. That's clunky and inelegant though... but might just have to be a compromise.
Some killers like Singularity or Krasue gets punished for hooking survivors and need a compensation for it. In general, some killers should get some hooking rewards.
I don't disagree, I hate how Krasue's power is pointless busy work really... but currently I don't have a better idea sadly 🥺
-
@Zuiphrode said:
There are things I don't like about this, but it's better than some of the proposals I've seen. Some comments here:
-Very iffy about the Boil Over buff. That perk is already enormously powerful and usually forces a killer to drop someone on the floor immediately if they have it.
-Survivors under the effects of Entity Accursed should be penalized in some fashion for body blocking/taking a protection hit while still under the effects of unhook endurace.
-The various nerfs to generator perks over the past 2-3 years should be reverted.Fair play that man.
My goal with Boil Over is this perk is very much a throw perk most of the time, doing little more than annoying the killer majority of the time, but in select scenarios/maps makes the Survivor completely unhookable thanks to fall from height wiggle progress. This change removes that fall from height effect and instead makes the perk consistent. It costs the killer additional time, but because it pauses the wiggle timer, it doesn't assist in making the Survivor unhookable. Though you did clue me into a problem that it should probably be only triggered a single time per helath state.
The problem with the protection hits is that you as killer can force them, bypassing the effect through not fault of the survivors. Say you injure someone going in to unhook, you can then hit the Survivor off hook with impunity to get a protection hit, cause their teammate is within 16m. You could put a time limit on it... but that starts becoming arbitrary... how long is too long/short?
Aye I feel tying buffs to progression perks that reward none tunneling more is a strong way to go.
-
100% agree.
The only reason I can think of for why this might not be a thing is it helps camping hooks, since you get a warning that a Survivor is coming for the unhook...
But given there is now the AFC, increased hook timers, longer basekit Borrowed Time, no hook grabs, etc... there is little reason to retain this limitation.
-
@Elan said:
Hitting great skillchecks should not boost killer's perk. And undone is sort of anti-noob perk.
Rework:
→ For each remaining generator, you have token (max. 5)
→ When you manually damage generator each stack grants: extra 2 % damage and the generator will be blocked for 3s for each stack. There might be 20-30s window before the perk can be used to prevent 3 genning.
=
→ When you kick gen with 5 stacks, the gen loses total 15 % and is blocked for 15s
→ When you kick gen with 4 stacks, the gen loses 13 % and is blocked for 12s
→ When you kick gen with three stacks, the gen loses 11 % and is blocked for 9s
→ When you kick gen with two stacks, the gen loses 9 % and is blocked for 6s
→ When damaging gen with one token, the gen loses 7 % and is blocked for 3s
Hitting great skillchecks should not boost killer's perk. And undone is sort of anti-noob perk.
Why not? With that change it becomes a perk that works better against higher skill players than lower slilled ones, and has counterplay in the form of once the perk is revealed, you can deliberately get good skillchecks to avoid granting the killer tokens. If you count difficult skillchecks as greats as well, you have some synergies.
This perk as it is is currently a "win more" perk, it only does anything when you're already winning.
The problem with your rework is the opposite, it is a "lose more" perk, it gets weaker when you're already losing.
I don't see any issue with making it a perk that allows for 1, maybe 2 really strong gen regression events top that is powered up by Survivors rushing gens with toolboxes and using Stake Out, Hyperfocus and alike.