UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028170#Comment_4028170
I've read 3 times and I just haven't understood... if you're spreading hooks, then you are more likely to run foul of Deli eliminating your pressure... not less.
It is less. Because you are giving less opportunity to ARM deli, before you as a deli user gets hooked.
Are you trying to say that having 6 hooks (and so 6x someone unhooked ⇒ 4 opportunities as you can't unhook dead survivor) happen before killer starts to chase you gives you worse chase to arm deli, then having just 2 chances (given in both cases, that you are 3rd survivor killer starts to focus)?
The other thing is impact - early-to-mid game impact of deli is higher. But that's not CHANCE it actually happens at all.
In our hypotheticals, the way Deli works, it directly compromises our early to mid game non-tunnel strategy and can even still bite us in end game as well if we can't find certain players
That happens ONLY IF survivor was able to unhook safely. A very strong if especially in soloQ where you can't communicate, that other survivors should back off and give you the unhook (which results in you having to "camp" (AKA waste time) freshly hooked survivor so you unhook before your other teammate, while hoping that killer does not notice you AND while hoping some other survivor does not farm hooked person in front of killer).
But once those strong IFs do happen, then I fully agree with you. However in most games (which are made of soloQ or duos) the condition for deli to work is very demanding. Which is the reason why the perk has such a huge payoff
Ah OK, I get you now, though I do disagree. I think where we're crossing wires is the uses of Deli, vs. its impact on the killers pressure. Sure there are more opportunities for Deli to activate if you're tunneling, but the question is, how impactful is it?
In my experience, both from the perspective as a Survivor and Killer seeing Deli in effect, if a killer is tunneling, Deli is only really costly if in a SWF and the killer camps... which camping has been made pretty bad now. Otherwise, using Deli isn't a big deal, cause the game is pretty much decided by how fast the killer tunneled. In the 3v1, Survivors can maybe stay on gens a bit better, but realistically the Deli player has to come off hook pretty fast to either retake chase, or get back on gens, diminishing its value greatly. The fact the survivor is broken and remains an easy target to put down and tunnel out themselves.... it isn't likely going to turn a losing game; the game is decided by how well the Killer tunneled for their 3rd hook and Deli was never really a factor in the outcome.
Conversely if a killer is spreading hooks, they need to be getting across map and winning chases consistently quickly to maintain their pressure. This is why healing and self healing perks being as strong as they are are so good; it means less downtime when the killer isn't tunneling, meaning Survivors can get back on gens faster. Because all 4 players are still in the game, the killers pressure suffers immensely just from healing perks... with Deli in a SWF though, there is absolutely no need to get off gens at all, the killer spreads hooks, goes after multiple players... however Survivors don't have to come off gens, while all 4 Survivors are alive. The killer ends up with 4 hooks, but no one on death hook and gens advanced much further than they would be without Deli in the equation.
The damage far as I can see is much higher for Deli in the latter.
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As a Pig/Trapper main, knowing there is no road back...
... and waiting for the live release...
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Consider it training for when 9.3.0 comes in... cause your games are gonna feel a lot like playing 2v8 very soon 😏
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027856#Comment_4027856
how exactly is this statement true if the killer is tunneling?
If killer is not tunneling, then everyone has been hooked so there's no deli.
The counter point being made is that if the killer spreads hooks, going after unhookers instead of the unhooked, their pressure is then immediately undone by the unhooker having Deli...
Yes. True. Which realistically virtually always happens before endgame. So that's not OPs case.
So how do you prevent losing your pressure to Deli? You ignore potential Deli users and go straight after the person who was unhooked. If you down them before the safe unhook score event you deny the Deli, but even if you don't, youre encouraged to tunnel them out so that even if the unhooker does have Deli, its impact when they unhook themselves on your pressure later on is much less with 3 Survivors compared to 4.
Once again, you are right.
But I have to stress one fact that comes from this and this case is a lot more prevalent in soloQ for obvious reasons… If you are spreading hooks, you don't give many individual chances for deli user to have successful unhook before going down himself - worst case scenario for killer that spread hooks is 3 chances (that can be mitigated by quick down as you wrote) and 9 chances if killer tunnels.
Meaning by spreading hooks you have very high chance of triggering "deli curse" making the perk useless instead.
I do apologise man...
I've read 3 times and I just haven't understood... if you're spreading hooks, then you are more likely to run foul of Deli eliminating your pressure... not less.
Less chance of Deli in end game sure if you can hook all Survivors once... assuming you can find/catch them all, but the point is if you're tunneling players out, you're going for pressure by reducing the player count, as opposed to the goal of not tunneling, which is to gain pressure by occupying as many Survivors at once as possible.
In our hypotheticals, the way Deli works, it directly compromises our early to mid game non-tunnel strategy and can even still bite us in end game as well if we can't find certain players... whereas our tunneling strategy doesn't fall foul of Deli unless we make it to end game, because we maintain our full tunnel pressure through the early to mid game...
So I believe that's why we're classing Deli as unhealthy, it directly compromises the pressure non-tunnel strategy in all parts of the game, whereas it only compromises the tunneling if we didn't get enough tunnel pressure early on. If we're gambling on outcomes, tunneling is better vs. the risk of Deli compared to not tunneling.
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What I will say about Lery's from the Survivor side is that the double terror radius tends to give killers a pseudo stealth, cause you can't distinguish between 1 or 2 terror radii.
For most maps this doesn't really come into play much, but on Lery's this is actually quite a substantial problem, and can very easily lead to you running into the second killer by mistake trying to avoid detection from the first killer, especially when you're also trying to avoid gen auras.
This is especially annoying if you have been the first chased and are trying to avoid detection... it's not every game, but this issue of not being able to stay out of the way when on deathhook I've found to be a really big problem on Lery's compared to other maps.
Also it's Ghost Face's best map... give the man a chance :S
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I don't have a quote, but thinking aboit it logically, I believe the reason for this is quite simply that the primary purpose of the play while you wait feature is to help speed up the 2v8 queue for everyone by bringing more Survivors in from the killer queue... if you're queuing for 1v4, you're not doing that...
It's not something that BHVR couldn't do, but if yours and the community at larges main complaint is killer queue times, doesn't it seem a little counterproductive to provide a feature that reduces the effectiveness of the play while you wait features ability to lower the 2v8 killer queue times, by letting people queue for an entirely different mode?
I can understand why you want the feature... but players who would rather play Survivor than stare at a loading screen are assisting in bringing down the killer queue for everyone... if you add this feature, I'd guess at least half those players will play 1v4 instead, so killer queue times increase by 10%...
So I don't think that will become a thing.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027583#Comment_4027583
What? Given the situation described by OP, it's the exact opposite. If you tunnel, then you are working for imbalance for hooks (e.g. having 6 hooks with 2 people dead and 2 people that could deli). On the other hand if you spread pressure to maximum degree (meaning more then just not tunnel) and you have say just 4 hooks, then every survivor is still just fine, but none of them can deli in endgame.
Meaning that if anything, the perk punishes tunneling.
The only way you could have been right is if you 100% disregard what OP said and you are talking about deli before endgame, where spreading hooks gives (with lesser chance to clear conditions, but more quickly) opportunity to use the perk.
You have to lead the killer away from the generator being worked on and the exit gates. Its been a crazy-close game, everyone is near death.
So because you haven't been hooked yet you make the only smart play which is to bait the killer into a chase where you will go down across the map but buy your team time to do the last gen and escape.
Taking the OPs scenario, how exactly is this statement true if the killer is tunneling?
The counter point being made is that if the killer spreads hooks, going after unhookers instead of the unhooked, their pressure is then immediately undone by the unhooker having Deli...
So how do you prevent losing your pressure to Deli? You ignore potential Deli users and go straight after the person who was unhooked. If you down them before the safe unhook score event you deny the Deli, but even if you don't, youre encouraged to tunnel them out so that even if the unhooker does have Deli, its impact when they unhook themselves on your pressure later on is much less with 3 Survivors compared to 4.
Deli doesn't get anywhere near the value in SoloQ as it does in SWF, but that's the point, if you suspect Deli, the correct play is to tunnel... that's what makes the perk unhealthy.
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I think Legion does need a bit if a rethink.
But Yes Oni needs all his 2v8 buffs stripped. He naturally synergises with the mode, it doesn't make sense for him to get the nudffs he does while Deathslinger gets barely anything to help him.
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What if they miss the prompt? Drop out of the queue?
Or do they get to hold a place at the front of the line indefinitely until they accept? Cause that would cause a continuous hold up of other killers getting in games waiting for AFK killers to time out until they accept, and cause issues where we then have a buffer of AFKers at the front of the line and waiting for them makes killer queues even longer.
Thus drop out of queue seems like the better option, but I can imagine a few people raging at waiting 25 mins, missing the 30s prompt (instead of the usual minute+loading time they are usually afforded), and dropping out of the queue.
Seems to me to only be an issue for people who insist on only playing killer (you don't miss the prompt if you play Survivor while you wait), and to be frank, however you solve this, players refusing to queue Survivor seems to be a constant pain point/problem for this whole thing.
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The fact is a lot of players want to play killer cause of the unique killer team experience. It's the most interesting new thing brought to the game, but you still need 4 survivors to every killer, and I'm sorry there is just no reasonable way to bridge this problem...
You're in a queue for the hottest ticket in the game... that's just the way it is. The game is already survivor sided to encourage more survivors to play, it caters to the much more casual audience and pulls in the vast majority of the players from 1v4,as well boosts the playerbase in general every time it appears.
I think the current queue while you wait system is the best way you can solve the problem: -
- You can play games of Survivor while you wait to pass the time.
- You gain the benefit of the bloodpoint bonus while you wait.
- You also are assisting in accelerating the queues by filling in the needed player slots for other people in the queue ahead of you.
- People can actually queue for the role they want to play (killer), but play while they wait, instead of saying "urgh, I really don't wanna wait 15 mins for a game", and being forced to play the other side.
If you wanna only main killer in 2v8, and the are complaining about killer queues, its the equivalent of getting picked for the wrong side in the schoolyard, and instead of joining in anyway so that the game can go ahead (where you can agree play your preferred role next time), you instead get the munk on and sit out on the side, making them find someone else to fill your spot.
You're basically trying to gate the killer for yourself, or muscle ahead of all the other people in the line that also wanna play the role... and I'm trying to say this nicely... but if you refuse to queue for survivor, you're not helping anyone but yourself... and to be frank, yeah, you kinda should have to wait the full queue... thats the penalty for not joining in to rectify queue times for everyone else 😐
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@Pulsar said:
It's boring. There's almost no reward for improving.
I have to play twenty matches on average until I'm challenged, unless I'm running some kind of meme build or purposefully handicapping myself.
The best strategies (tunneling, proxying and situational slugging) are all the same as they were when I started playing eight years ago. Eight years of a single meta is horrifically boring, not even getting into a balance discussion. The game actively punishes you for trying to avoid those strategies and continuously rewards you for using them, despite the fact that nobody likes to play against them.
To summarize, Killer is boring because the lowest skill strategies, which have been meta for almost a decade, are encouraged whilst high skill expression is continuously penalized. Couple that with general burnout and a lack of challenge, and you get a very bored and disappointed Killer main.
Seems to be spot on...
As someone who doesn't tunnel, slug or camp, who likes playing Pig because her RBTs give her a reason baked into her design not to tunnel... I've never known this game be harder for my killer.
Pallets everywhere, barely any tiles I can actually play my power cause people just leave tile and hold W to the next pallet every time I crouch... and there is ALWAYS another pallet in reach. Every single mechanism of putting up a fight outside of stacking gen perks to slow down the game and tunneling has just become increasingly trash... and nowadays I end up fighting my arse off every game just to get 4 hooks. Genuinely I find Trapper easier, because at least on Trapper I can shut down the god pallet chains eventually...
Like ye I can dominate scrubs, but you can immediately feel whether a Survivor is good or bad in this game, and trying to catch a good one is just such a fast track to embarrassment in so many maps now if you're playimg off meta/not playing uber sweaty.
The PTB isn't gonna change how I play, I already play that way... but it looks so unbelievably miserable... I already have to look at going balls to the wall sweaty just to not get run over with Pig now... and if I get in a bad mood from getting smoked on repeat, I have to fall back to playing nasty and going hard. Will be even worse now, since the buffs to Survivor are taking away even more lethality from my RBTs, and I'm gonna have people weaponising the anti-tunnel effects to screw me even more than the game already does with its endless scores of pallets.
Trying to play fun is just punished so hard in this game... 😒
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Cheers! Missed that completely with the chaos going on around that patch xD
Fair play in that case, I'd rate Springtrap about as good as Huntress in that case. His map mobility, Undetectable, and fixed footstep noise (I did find that patch note), give him strengths where Huntress has Weaknesses and vice versa.
He's a B tier killer to my mind, in that band of killers who actually get somewhat punished if they make a mistake/misplay/get outplayed, as opposed to A+, and S tiers, who could prat fall on a discarded jam sandwich mid chase and still realistically 4k against all but the sweatiest Survivor teams. 😁
😉
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I found the opposite, WoO didn't help me learn anything, if anything it made me start to forget what I had already learned; it's a terrible perk for teaching people to play DBD and actively hinders your development as a player.
The thing with playing without WoO is you are training your brain to look for familiar tiles and structures in each map, you are teaching yourself to scout while you work on gens and take stock of your surroundings while you move around, to file them in your mind for later.
Even if you don't know exactly where the window/pallet is, you learn to be able to make an educated guess based on what you can see (there isn't one in that tile spawn point there, so there should be one there, etc)... You also learn to play in a little bit more of a safer manner, because you don't know precisely where pallets are, you're mkre disciplined and a little less greedy, make your way there slightly sooner. You also learn to make do with the pallets you have, if you don't know where the next pallet is exactly, you have to make better use of the weaker pallet you do know/have.
In contrast playing with WoO allows you to forgo most of these points, cause you just know where the windows and pallets are at all times, you don't need to memorise or recall anything cause it's always there, and you can muxh more safely hold W at every chance to beeline directly to the next pallet.
You never have to learn to scout tiles, take stock of your surroundings/resources or pay attention to spawn points, cause WoO does it all for you. You don't have to learn how to loop in a weaker tile, cause you can easily chain to a stronger tile with much less personal effort.
For a new player who is trying to improve, WoO makes you lazy, and it means when you don't have WoO, or you become blinded, you become lost and confused because you haven't learned the skills to function without it. It's like NOED for killer... it shortcuts a lot for you; you'll win for a while against players who aren't so good, but once you start getting put with better players, the perk won't be enough to save you, and now you're also missing a lot of fundamental skills you need to exist at this level to put a more useful perk in its place.
I always discourage any new player from running it. If you want WoO to actually help you learn, take a map. They actually require you to retain information you see, and still.help you develop skills you need to play at higher level to eventually function without them.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027184#Comment_4027184
This is already fixed…
Hmmm... Can you point me to the patch notes for this please?
Not that I don't beleieve you, but I've gone through them and am unable to find the patch where this was fixed... cause its quite crucial to all discussions around Springtrap.
I could never hear it on console so I cannot verify myself, but I've seen videos demonstrating it, and it's quite pronounced, and is quite crucial to assessing teh characters strength (simce his map mobility is the main thimg he has over Huntress) 😶
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I feel like the only reason Springtrap suffers is because the background ambient sound disables when he teleports, which then pre-warns Survivors he is lokely coming...
Feels like a bug... Otherwise, his lack of hatchet lethality is made up for with the efficiency of his map traversal.
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I still think if you want to have Legion not be the mindless M2er:
- give them their normal 4 hit gameplay from 1vs4
- remove killer instinct on hit
- add scratch marks and pools of blood while in feral frenzy
- give them Frank's Mix tape basekit (the one that let's you kick whole still on Feral Frenzy)
- give them whatever buffs they need to be decent (faster starting movement, longer feral frenzy, faster cooldown) to compensate the loss of killer instinct. (As a gut start off point I'd say buff them to 5.4m/s, 15s duration, 12s cooldown).
This allows Legion to use the natural greater auras of 2v8 to still play, but it gives a killer who can chain injuries with little counterplay, a lot of new counterplay via stealth. Getting their 4 hits then is something that is actually earned via hide and seek. It also makes the Shadow Undetectable on them actually decent.
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
I think the primary problem with legion was he excelled if more survivors were in close proximity which is always the case in 2v8. The only other killer on that list that could rapidly injure the whole team for any other killer to pick off, would be plague. Everyone else still has to chase each person to hit them except ghoul, but he can only do it to 1 person at a time and doesnt get told where everyone is when he does.
I think Plague will be mostly fine because of her lack of mobility in these big maps tbh, as long as there are enough fountains. If she pukes on everything, she is walking around as an m1 killer, and her injuries aren't instant. Chases don't usually last long anyway for fast killers, and against the Escapist and Scout classes, she will struggle mightily to exert pressure, like a Legion who constantly drops power to go for m1s.
Interesting to think about.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026928#Comment_4026928
See you say that about Oni but in a good team he always has power like 90 percent of the match, which is really oppressive, I have hundreds of hours in 2v8 at this point, I really don't think she'd be healthy for it.
True, I mean you're entitled to your opinion friend, I'm not trying to prove you wrong, cause until we see it, we cant know for sure... but as I say... there is a bit of a difference between Plague Corrupt Purge and Oni Demon Dash...
- Blood left all over the place in droves, as well as being inst granted after 2 m1s (easy to do in the cahos of 2v8), which blood can be supplemented by your teammate directly VS. having to walk all across the map to collect your fountain, and only a power only related to Plague, not supported by her teammate.
- 7.82m/s vs. 4.6m/s.
- Instadown off a relatively easy to hit, near unmindgamabale dash in 2v8 vs. a single injury spit blocked by line of sight that is still vulnerable to prethrowing pallets.
I mean this mobility factor I think can't be understated in 2v8, because look at the best killers in this mode vs. the worst ones.
Best: - Wesker Blight Hillbilly Oni Legion Wraith Nurse Dracula
Worst: Trapper Ghost Face Nemesis Pyramid Head Huntress Deathslinger
What's the common divide? It's mobility, slow killers can't get there to stop gens afar popping.... gens are super fast, you can't take the time to walk across map... so if you're slow, like Plague, you need a difference maker... and I'm not convinced her infection makes up enough of a difference between her time to infect/time to injure, and how she flings Survivors cross map to her furthest fountains.
I'm also not convinced her Corrupt Purge does either, because yes it's devastating in the 1v1... but she still has to walk across the map, she still has to contend with LOS blockers and limited range, and she still has to contend with 2 hits and all the escapists running around and prethrowing/respawning pallets.
She ain't gonna be bad, but I just can't see her outperforming Wraith, Wesker, Oni, Blight or Hillbilly. Not without some sizable 2v8 buffs to her infection at least.
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I understand your points ladies an gents, and that was my gut feeling as well... in theory she looks busted, but when it'll come to practice, after seeing so many iterations of 2v8, I remain unconvinced...
I feel like her infection will struggle to spread far enough or fast enough to really put the Plague hammer down, unlike Legion her power doesn't really scale up (and Legion's power really scales up well). I have feeling the game will be running away from Killers before Plague really gets going, unless her teammate uber carries.
- Remember there are 13 gens, on a very big map, Plague is just gonna walk around infecting everything? What information is she gonna get really? Something vaguely behind her got touched?
- Things only remain infected for 40s donbear in mind, before she has done even half of it, infection will be wearing off. Walking around spitting on everything won't be as effective as we think.
- Also remember these gens only have 70 charges. If you're infected and haven't become sickened yet, you accumulate 2% infection per second repairing gens. That's 50s... the gen is almost down by the time you get infected. If 2 of you do it, you'll actually finish the gen before you get infected...
Now about Corrupt Purge:
- The ability is pretty scary, but if Plague is grabbing her purge, she isn't infecting things... and that means she needs to be cutting through swathes of Survivors... but she can't use it to guard hooks, to interrupt heals, she can't 3 gen, she can't tunnel, and in this mode she can't really slug either... all things that made Corrupt Purge really strong in 1v4.
- She's still 4.6, and she simply cant be everywhere... simply running apart is gonna mean she can't get the Plague train going... I don't see this ability putting the hammer down more than a triple Wesker, Nurse, Dracula, cracked Billy or cracked Oni.
As I said I don't think she'll be bad... (and survivors will obvioualy hate it because Lolstompz), but her power doesn't really scale up, the Survivors aren't limited to 5/7 gens, they need 8/13 gens so her infection reach is bad.
- If you're infected you accumulate 1% charge of sickness every second, that's 100s to become fully infected in chase... chases aren't anywhere near that long in 2v8, so her teammates game isn't really gonna benefit from all these mass injured Survivors like you would think.
Maybe during the the last couple of gens in a toght cluster she might start to shine and make a comeback, maybe if she hard focuses a central group of gens she might be good if Survivors don't try to break it... but even that with gens able to pop in just 30s is a big ask.
I think her startup is just too slow for Plague to be the powerhouse people think she will be in 2v8. Though I would stress, the same way I feel about Oni... I don't think Plague needs any buffs for the mode, at least not until we see how she really plays out...
But I think she is an interesting thought case.
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EDIT: Oops, fat fingered the Post Comment button while scrolling. Plz ignore...
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I've always considered saying "GG" first after your opponent just got crushed to be a little tone deaf and bad form… mostly because someone who just got done getting smashed and embaressed at every turn likely did not find that a "Good Game", and inserting it first can come across as patronising or taking the piss; so I understand where you're coming from...
However, the reality is, vast majority of players who say GG don't actually mean anything negative by it. I am console so don't have to deal with chat, which is a kind mercy upon me, but for your own mental, try to assume that anyone saying GG doesn't mean anything by it. If you're wrong, you beat them cause they didn't get in your head, and if you're right, then you haven't bitten the head off someone who doesn't deserve it.
Or you can go my route, and play on a platform with no chat, or just simply say nothing. I stopped saying GG, or anything at all really when I was on PC, because the drama isn't worth it 😅
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@Mandy said:
You make a lot of interesting points, and I'm not here to say you're wrong in any of it - I can completely understand how it must seem to players when they don't have the full picture…and often that full picture is because there's things upcoming that we cannot yet talk about.
A lot of what you've brought up is what we intend to address in the Community Streams, which we've just started, to give players a better understanding of where we're having to focus our priorities and what our goals are for the larger changes. We're also going to explore adding more of a "dev note" to the patch notes when there are changes to give an idea of why a change has been made - which should hopefully give a more clear understanding of the thought process / reasons, without bloating the patch notes too much. Design previews we will be keeping for large reworks, we have started to do more with particular Focus Groups of players where we can share design information under an NDA and get more player input, this is particularly relevant with killers such as Trickster. We'd also like to share more data where it's relevant so that you have further context on changes that we're making - its not all about data though, it's a mixture of things including sentiment around something. There's never just one factor that goes into making a change.
For Legion, although we did explain that on the stream, I will say again - we've removed them temporarily, their power is such that in the 2v8 mode, it's a lot more oppressive than in the 1v4 game. As I'm sure you could tell by the feedback we received from the last iteration of 2v8. Our Design team is looking for solutions where Legion can still feel like Legion to play, whilst addressing the concerns raised since their introduction to the mode. There is no obvious solution here that we could implement, we tried nerfing them in the last iteration but the problem remained - getting that injury super easy is not so much of an issue on 1v4 because they still have to get the down, but that's not a problem in the 2v8 mode given the 2nd killer in play. So it's gone back to Design for them to look into further.
I know this is just words, my team is on these forums as well as the other platforms that we cover daily, and we do take this feedback to the relevant depts when it's warranted. We also work very closely with the other teams such as Designers, and make sure that your voices are heard.
Cheers for taking the time for such a thorough and clear response Mandy.
For what its worth, I do tend to err on the side of giving the benefit of the doubt, and I certainly don't hold the opinion that any of this is easy to manage. A lot of the points you raise are fair and do make sense, and I certainly don't want to come across like I don't appreciate the challenges that these issues pose.
I am also aware there are so many voices all screaming at you from all sides, and I do want to give credit where credit is due, there is definitely a noticable shift and much stronger attempt to listen to the community compared to previous eras of the game. The questionnairs and alike sent out to different platforms for all players to answer are really good too!
If you will indulge me, a small improvment that I think would help a lot, instead of proposing changes first and asking for feedback after the fact, perhaps if BHVRs balance teams were to pose an open question to the community once in a while before any changes were made... That would go a long way. Before tackling the issue, posing a question to the community and asking for players thoughts and ideas for your consideration might be worthwhile.
Say you decide you're going to buff, I dunno, Invocations. A month or so before you start working on it, put a quick survey out like your other questionnaires asking people what they think of Invocations, how strong they are, how strong they should be, and ask for suggestions on what could be done for existing invocations, and ideas for new ones. Even a simple "what one thing would you change? ", would be something.
Just the fact you actually asked for a suggestion would mean a lot to many people I'm sure. This would save dev time regarding fixes and reverts, and let you get a finger on the communities pulse around it and see the common talking points before you commit to a path. It would also let us argue it out before you commit any time resources, and generally have a better shot at smashing it out of the gate, instead of being the ones in the firing line and having to juggle rolling back or making further changes after the horse already left the gate.
Anyway, at the risk of rambling, appreciate reaching out 🤘
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Adriana, say nothing, and insist on legal representation!
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@Classic_Rando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025832#Comment_4025832
Literally nobody is asking for removal of any of the other killers. Oni is still a bit overtuned, and that’s it. Stop making up strawman arguments.
It's not straw man argument, it's a sarcastic argument, and its purpose is pointing out how fundamentally flawed the removal of Legion from 2v8 was.
Nerf characters, fine. I personally don't think Oni needs any buffs at all for 2v8, cause his power naturally synergises with it.
But the OP didn't ask for a nerf... he asked for removal, and my stupid post is the parody how close minded and selfish that perspective is.
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I agree, removal from the mode is the best solution for every gripe Survivors have.
- Remove Wesker from 2v8. I hate his triple dashes.
- Remove Nurse from 2v8. I hate her triple blinks.
- Remove Dracula from 2v8. I hate his triple wolf dashes and his insane 52m bat range.
- Remove Blight from 2v8. I hate how he can turn so easily round corners and sprint around teh map really fast.
- Remove Wraith from 2v8. I hate his super fast uncloak speed and pallet baits.
- Remove Spirit from 2v8. I hate how there is too much noise and commotion to laoten for her phasing.
- Remove Huntress from 2v8. I hate that she has 10 hatchets.
- Remove Deathslinger from 2v8. I hate that he can hold his power for a double hit.
- Remove Hillbilly from 2v8. I hate that he can instadown Survivors back to back while his teammate walks behind him cleaning up, and sprint across the map really fast.
- Remove Pyramid Head from 2v8. I hate how while can hit 2 survivors at one with one swing of his trail.
- Remove Ghost Face from 2v8. I hate how he gives exposed that every other killer can use to down in 1 hit.
- Remove Nemesis from 2v8. I hate how zombies make it basically 4v8.
- Remove Trapper from 2v8. I hate how his traps allow killers to get hits they didn't earn.
There I think I fixed the mode for Survivors. Have fun doing gens!
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Sigh, as if on cue this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about... and it's why people get mad at you...
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025787#Comment_4025787
Wut?
https://i0.wp.com/media0.giphy.com/media/8lZbDImdMupDW/giphy.gif
Oh that's naughty. Trying to claim that was a bug fix in 9.2.3. 😑
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/45DKR44BATOF/screenshot-20251107-125004-firefox.jpg
Rest of the cages design certainly does not speak to this being anything other than intentional. Fits the anti-tunnel initiative, but why not just say so?
For shame.
Why not just say this is a nerf to Pyramid Head in line with the anti-tunnel initiative? Why not just say that?
Take a stance for God sake...
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025771#Comment_4025771
No, it doesn’t. He don’t have any notifications in 1 vs 4 after cages as well anymore since last patch
Wut?
Oh that's naughty. Trying to claim that was a bug fix in 9.2.3. 😑
Rest of the cages design certainly does not speak to this being anything other than intentional. Fits the anti-tunnel initiative, but why not just say so?
For shame.
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@Xord said:
The thing is, if he could do final judgement as usual, there would be absolutely no reason to ever send a survivor to a cage since you get a cage baseline in 2v8.
Well he does have the fact he can't be pallet or flashlight saved, bit yeah we always knew this was gonna be a problem.
But otherwise I suppose the only thing he has in 2v8 is he can potentially double hit Survivors, and theAtonement Cages don't have unhook defences (at least I don't think they do... I actually did not pay enough attention while playing to check).
@tes said:
I already made post about this… As his main I was hugely dissapointed. Now I expect no one playing him after trying once in this event
Does anyone know if the cage of atonement gets an unhook notification I wonder, since it isn't the same as the 2v8 cage of corruption? The wiki only describes the notification silence on Cages of Corruption?
I haven't been able to try it yet... but that would be good to know, and a pretty scary difference between Cages of Atonement and Cages of Corruption, if CoA works in all the ways it does in 1v4 😅😶
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@SoGo said:
While I think that Claw Traps and Lock On are fine in the current form, I kinda like the Stealth Drones and the Enhanced scan. Also I like the Oblivious basekit.
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025456#Comment_4025456
Thing is there is not really reason to disarm right now when it doesn't affect survivors on gens. You can easily ignore all drones.
Aye, tried to solve that…
I have been pondering if the optional enhanced scan SHOULD apply a claw trap... since Skully herself has to trigger it...
The problem of course is that removes the crouch coubterplay completely... I thought of maybe having it apply a trap if performing a Conspicuous Action, but you literally just let go and it does nothing, so unless you get a wayward skillcheck that ain't gonna work...
Maybe if you use Oppression then immediately trigger it, but I'm really starting to reach now... and this line of thinking ultimately proved fruitless.
I figure the enhanced ability scan gives some additional options to Skully for her monitoring and chase, and ultimately because none of it cause an injury, even if you get tagged, it's not the immediate horrible feeling thing it was for Survivors.
I'm ofc aware she is not very strong on this configuration... I have been toying with the idea of giving her her old "claw trap breaks pallet and disables claw trap when the Survivor vaults a pallet" feature from version 1 Skull Merchant...
Though that does somewhat contradict the oblivious and broken "stalker" aspect of the kit... so not sure.
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@Elan said:
Some of those ideas are good. The problem is that her issue was that survivors had too less of a information what is going on. Current Merchant is ez to understand. If she deploys drone, she's stealthy for the moment and if you get scanned three times you get injured, therefore you have to crouch to force m1 before third scan.
I mean, cheers for commenting dude, I fully expected this thread to just insta-die... 😅
Hmm you raise a fair point. The stealth drones do make it hard for a newbie to figure out you can crouch by. Maybe if you crouch for 1 full second while having LoS of the drone, the stealth scan lines reveal themselves in grey, standing up the effect lingers for 1 second, and switches the colour to the orange lines before it fades out again?
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@MDRSan said:
Franklins doesn't need to be reverted. Survivors running back to retrieve their item (if they even bother to do so) isn't some risk free, zero time investment activity. Killers are just going to need to learn to let it go - they don't get to delete items for the low cost of a single M1 swing they were going to take anyway anymore. BHVR has knocked the perk out of killer's hands and it has ironically lost the charge that allows it to affect item charges.
Back on topic, I think the idea behind treating killer items as separate things was part of their balancing. If that was suddenly changed there would need to be a pass to look at what it means to be able to knock a VHS tape, an EMP, a mushroom, etc. out of someone's hand.
That I'm not so sure of. Not that I used Franklin's cause I know its annoying..., but Franklin's wasn't nerfed for balance reasons, it was nerfed because Survivor's find it annoying. Hell even after it's nerf...I still find it annoying.
However from a balance perspective there was no reason to nerf Franklin's. Since tunneling is all the rage as a talking point at the moment, Franklin's offered a way to nullify medkits and force Survivors to heal altruistically, taking 2 Survivors time instead of one. This perk is not something you're going to use if you're tunneling, because if you're tunneling youre not gonna give people the chance to use their meskit anyway. Sure you can deny a syringe, but since if you're tunneling you're probably gonna hit off hook for deep wound anyway, which already stops the syringe, and the styptic too, you wouldn't sack a perk slot for this... (though these are changing)
Not only that, you say "just an m1", despite the fact the game in this day and age is progressively getting more reliant on m2 powers than ever... especially after the pallet update. Being an m1 power, it helped out M1 killers who could really use the time deficit you're describing and put a much bigger roadblock in the way of Survivors running off to Narnia to heal solo.... an ability that all Survivor players I talk to for some reason massively undervalue, especially now Botany has no downside...
The new Franklin's doesn't address this problem at all... in fact no perk does... and with how fast Survivors can recover with numerous really good healing perks, it's just yet another reason on the myriad of reasosn why tunneling is better than not tunneling. Every option that afforded the killer not to tunnel keeps getting axed.
P.S. I've always been a bit of a tunnel scale skeptic, I just don't see the levels of tunneling people keep talking about... but then again, I play off meta meme builds, so I don't win consistently and am probably in lower MMR... can't deny others experiences forever xD
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@fussy said:
Franklin's definitely should be reverted, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.
Hoarder works on killer's belongings is too much I believe. At least on Onryo, Xeno and Singu it will be nonstop info. And work only on killer powers is stupid design honestly. Why create perk, which do absolutely nothing on 70% of roaster?
Hoarder isn't awful, when it works, problem is in most matches you don't care about chests as survivor. So it needs something passive on top of it, maybe killer's instinct in 8 meters near chest or something like that.
So it needs something passive on top of it, maybe killer's instinct in 8 meters near chest or something like that.
Unfortuantely that completely invalidates Human Greed, which is the only perk that has a shot at making Hoarder remotely viable.
Hoarder is also stuffed by the fact its loud noise notifiaction is completely trumped by Weave Attunement when it comes to items.
It'd be nice if Hoarder could somehow make chests something Survivors need to do.
I'm totally spitballing, but to give a zany idea, say the first time you hook each Survivor, a random chest gets highlighted and the Survivor suffers the exhausted condition. Opening the chest (or rummaging if already open) will recover a horror token of some kind... maybe a little plasticine doll or something? (If you wanna get really cool, some unique memento/indicator for each Survivor, like a personal item or hair strand coloured to match them). The survivor retrieves this item and crushes it to remove the status effect.
I dunno something like that would be kinda cool?
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Personally, as a minimum set of changes to Trapper, I would like: -
- Makeshift Wrap basekit (stepping in traps disarms instead of stuns Trapper)
- Serrated Jaws basekit (deep wound when escaping from a trap)
- Increased minimum time to escape a trap, either via reworking the RNG/mechanics to take more time per search but less searches, or maybe a nice slightly longer animation of the Survivor in pain when trapped (maybe 2s) before Survivor's can start trying to escape or be helped to escape, to make his cross map trap value a little more consistent.
- Ability to tag/mark a trap using secondary killer power.
- Opening a locker will demanifest a tagged trap, or if no trap is tagged, the furthest trap (prioritising disarmed traps) from the map. Trapper will then pull the trap from the locker, on a 45s cooldown.
This gives him an easier time of start up, since he doesn't need to worry about base spawns messing up his pathing as much to set/gather traps. Any time he is near a locker, he can always grab another one.
And it makes his traps better at range, and for his own mind games/anti-loop.
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I wouldn't necessarily be against it, the only problem with this is traps often spawn in some pretty useless places, either by not covering anything, or being so obvious they suck...
Automating better trap placement is actually quite hard, because Trapper's trap placement is highly contextual... where do you spawn them for them to be considered "good"?
- Under pallets you have to be sure they can't have the pallet dropped on them.
- If beside a pallet, which side, and does it actually block the path, or is it easily visible from the routes you're likely pursuing from?
- Under windows would always be useful, but again, which side?
- In jungle gyms, which window or pallet do you trap?
- What arbitary paths do you pick? Are there any good locations in pallet/window dead zones?
You can see the problem, and even if this could be fixed, ghere is also the question of if their placement is improved, how much you as Trapper are actually doing? Really you should be the mind and architect of your web, not the game... but lets scrub iver that fir the moment... even outside of that, there is another problem that comes off fully set traps on spawn in...
The advantage of traps being disarmed at the start is whenever you have a free trap slot and see a trap, you can much easier identify traps that are yours and traps that are spawned in... if you see a disarmed trap you likely recall whether its one of yours or not, and can go over and either grab or reset it. Its never wasted time, cause you either reset a good trap you placed earlier, or you gather a bad trap.
If all traps are armed however, then it means you have to split part of your cognitive load on remembering which traps are yours and which ones have spawned in and likely in bad places, it makes playing him more confusing. Sure at the start this is fine, but a couple of chases in after you've been spun round a few times, and traps have been disabled and alike, it becomes much harder to recall which traps are ones you want to keep and which you didn't at a glance... if you can't remember then you're more likely to waste time going to a set trap you don't really want to remove.
I already get this problem with his Iridescent Stone add-on... having this base would be a little frustrating, and I don't think too helpful in the grand scheme.
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@vol4r said:
I mean he has some point.
Matches, tactics, killer being unfun for people really needs to be considered and changed.
So how do you resolve that fun is subjective? What some people find fun may not be what other people find fun, and vice versa for what those people find unfun, we agree? Yet you believe in this subjective landscape it's fine for a player to not get the combo they want, and thus take their ball home and ruin the game for everyone else?
If this is the stance you want to take, who gets to be the one to decide what things it should and should not be allowed for a player to leave in the name of "fun"? Especially when you have 10's of thousands of different people playing each day, who gets to be the one who decides what it is OK to pack up and dip for?
If the argument is there should be a minimum percentage of people who find things fun, well in that case, doesn'tthat mean we should have every killer power designed to be the same? I mean in shooters majority of people find Call of Duty fun, so does that mean every single shooter game has to be made like Call of Duty because that is what the majority of players deem as fun? No room for nuance or variety, because we are solely catering for the mass market here.
Killa Whale ran a survey once over 1000 players asking them to specifically answer for each killer whether they find them fun to face or not.
The results of that survey show that there is greater than an 87% chance that at least 1 player in your lobby doesn't like the killer. We're OK with someone DCing 87% of the time because they don't find the killer fun?
Clearly there is an issue here.
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I've always found this talking point very interesting. Sadako, Pig and to a lesser extent Pinhead really struggle to fight Survivors the higher in MMR you go... yet they dominate at low MMR and have some the best kill rates in the game... If you buff them to compete at higher MMR... then they inevitably run over lower tiers even harder than they do now.
On the flip side, killers like Hillbilly, Nurse and to a lesser extent Blight have pretty darned bad/mediocre performances at low MMR, scoring some of the lowest killrates in the game, and yet are amongst the strongest killers in the game at high MMR.
Is always been a fascinating point of discussion for me. A skill floor represent the minimum level of skill required to play at a reasonably effective level, while a skill ceiling represents the max potential the character can reach when played perfectly.
- Low skill floor tends to be tempered by low skill ceiling, resulting in killers like Trapper, Pig, Legion, where killers are only good while Survivors make mistakes, so only function in low-mid MMR.
- High skill floor is often compensated by a high skill ceiling, resulting in killers like Blight, Huntress, Hillbilly, where killers making small mistakes costs them lots of time and get run over at lower levels, but played without mistakes cause lots of problems at higher levels.
- Low skill floor with high skill ceiling, you get situations like Ghoul and Krasue, where the opposing side despise these killers cause they have to play near-perfect to have just a chance, while the killer gets away with making mistakes way more than they should. Thrive at all levels of play, though disliked.
- High skill floor, low skill ceiling, hard to say who fits here, but offhand I'd say maybe Clown or Deathslinger? Produces killers who people find they have to put in a lot of work and make effectively no mistakes just to play to a passable level, and are punished very hard for every error. Struggle at pretty much every level of play, and thus have to tend to go hard every single game.
Is it OK that killers have different bands of skill that they excel in? Hard to say... cause fixing it seems a little impossible to resolve... and least without making killer powers quite homogenous.
Same rules kinda apply to perks really as well
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Yep, sorry brother, you agreed to play a game that requires 5 people to play, then ditched because you can't be bothered to even try. In the process you condemned 3 other player to their likely deaths, and make the game just as boring for the killer. That's precisely why you get the penalty, and deservedly so.
If you wanna quit, fine, go ahead, but at least have the courtesy to take your lumps for doing so.
P.S. bots are very easy to catch on killer, cause you can force them to take particular vaults and mind game/predict them very consistently. That's why it's boring to face only bots.
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@Lexilogo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024118#Comment_4024118
You can effectively only use the heal once too, considering Wicked is extremely obvious when it's used, even more obvious with Wicked + Resurgence and Killers can usually choose to carry you away from basement to hook you elsewhere. (though that depends on the map)
I'm personally not sure how strong it will be myself, I think the bigger problem with the combo might be Resurgence providing too much reliability to go with what should be a big gamble Perk setup, but we'll see how it pans out
Pretty sure that unless the hook is literally right outside shack, which isnt common at all, you ain't carrying a Survivor out of the back of basement successfully.
If the anti slug changes weren't coming in, then you have a fair point, but since they are, this is what we call a lose/lose for the killer, just have to let Survivors go down in basement like a scrub and have their free heal.
Not a big deal for the fast killers, they get a hook afterall... but major pain on the ass for the slow ones, who already tend go avoid basement cause it takes too long to walk in there and back out again for map pressure... even more so given the anti tunnel changes making it impossible to actually use any of the traditional benefits it give you too. Let's face it, basement sucks with this update unless you're someone like Trapper or Cannibal.
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Looks very sound to me:
Reduced RNG for traps is an interesting one. Needs some very careful thought, because the dangerous traps are obviously her 4S traps, and getting 2 of those back to back is really good for business. If the average is 13 searches instead of 12, then 1S are only possible with 3 4S traps... that might actually be worth the 1 turn trap... 🤔
End game Pig 👉🐽
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@CompetitifDBD said:
So, nothings changed and you're claiming that existing mechanics are a nerf to Pig?
Seems a bit of a flippant response...
So if I were to respond in kind I would patronisingly point out how distance = speed × time, but the maths shows that isnt a big issue at all really, so it would be a fake point to make.
You don't strike me as a Pig main… if you are I apologise, but if you aren't, and for anyone who also isn't a Pig main, let me explain my thought processes.
The raw speed isn't really the issue in of itself, it's the fact there is no need to fear the Pig as you make your way to a Pig Box off hook...
To breakdown some Pig thoughts and strategy, Pig doesn't typically get to go very far from hook before an unhook is made, if she doesn't find someone fast after hooking, her weak mobility tends to mean she is better heading back to hook.
Now Pig is unique in that her built in mechanics don't necessarily benefit her to tunnel off hook, the timer pauses if she starts chase with that Survivor, so she is not gaining value from her RBTs while doing so, she has a non tunnel incentive built in to her kit. What she wants is that Survivor not to be healed and off doing their boxes. This gives her chances to see which way the Survivor goes and look to intercept that Survivor later if she finds herself in roughly the right area of map. So returning to hook to chase the unhooker is a good move a lot of the time for Pig.
The thing is, by doing this, you are also putting the threat you might tunnel there as well, especially if a Survivor makes it easy for you... you are Pig, you want any advantage you can get. So in the event the unhooked Survivor doesn't make it free, they do have to fear you and try to evade you. This means they will path/hide suboptimally, and waste crucial time on their RBT that assists in mounting her pressure. The more time this wastes, the more pressure the Survivor is under to do their boxes, preventing them from assisting in key moments, such as going for hook saves and alike.
With the anti-tunnel changes however, the Survivor has no grunts of pain, no scratch marks, no pools of blood, can see the Pig's aura, has 10% Haste, they can far more easily slip away from the hook unseen by the Pig, or even if they are seen, with little she is worth doing about it... they reach the box at a much higher pace than normal, effectively remaining more or less completely unhindered no matter what threats the Pig might pose...
This is what is what greatly hinders her box pressure, there is effective no reason not to beeline straight for the box, you're completely safe doing so.
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@Elan said:
Btw, I don't know if you catch it, but the antitunnel system says:
"If you are healed to full, haste, endurance and elusive deactivate".
You are correct sir I did miss this. Ta!
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@Elan said:
I think Myers is decent top B now. His counterplay feels very close to Bubba atm. I defienetly don't think he needs buffs or nerfs. The only thing I found a bit stupid when playing him was iri tombstone, leaving me in Inc. mode entire match when paired with friends and furtive with not much option for the other side. Who loved old Myers can burn one add on to play his older version mostly. So there is no reason to be disatisfied about his update.
Nah, the main thing that made him fun was emulating the films, and in his Sept 2023 mini rework, his stalk mechanic from range was the biggest part of that, and that doesn't function the way it did before. Myers was special, because he felt like Myers, now he doesn't feel like Myers both to play as, and play against.
For horror fans, the best part of Myers was this "does he, doesn't he?" question mark that always hung over him. You were always on alert for Myers stalking cause it could cause you a real problem if you didn't see him stalking.
Even when you didn't know the killer at the start of the trial, if you didn't hear a TR for see anyone enter chase for like 30s or you heard the piano keys, you started looking around frantically to make sure Myers wasn't stalking you and working on a Tombstone. Even when Myers wasn't in the trial, he still brought up the tension and the horror atmosphere.
The fragrent tuft add-on doesn't provide any of this. He is still missing his stalk range, he doesn't have his Mori threat, his Scratched Mirror sucks, and he doesn't have his Vanity Mirror either. All the interesting ways his add-ons modded the game and brought the horror theme more to life are gone... now he is just tall and silent Chucky. With the Fragrent Tuft add-on, generic killer number 6.
None of the things that made Michael Myers are here anymore. If people like new Myers, great, but please don't try to tell old fans of Myers they still have their killer... cause they don't.
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Sill don't know why Survivors not having collision after unhook isn't a thing... I thought that was pretty universally considered a good change for both sides.
- Survivors can't use their 30s Endurance to block a non tunneling killer and bait their Decisive Strike.
- Killers like Wraith and Kaneki can't get ahead of Survivors to block vaults and windows.
- Also is so much less annoying in general as Survivor, not having to go around your teammate to run from hook...
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@AssortedSorting said:
Probably to present a consistent model.
She doesn't hold traps in-game.
Not saying it couldn't return at some point as an idle-lobby animation, but in terms of giving visual clarity to the player of what their character model looks like to other players, it makes sense.
She doesn't hold traps in-game.
In my heart she does... '*🐽*'
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022694#Comment_4022694
Over 3 years of experience have told us that, unless the devs can devise a carrot that is explicitly exempt from tunneling, it can and will be used to tunnel.
Every single buff that killer have had since at least 6.1 has been used to tunnel more effectively.
Which, for the record, includes "gen speeds" since a year of gen kick and 3 gen metas made gens take as long as the killer wanted, and yet people used that extra time to tunnel more.
The carrot does not work.
There is not even a carrot for killer, 5% bloodlust is basically nothing, like maybe a faint whiff of carrot, so what carrot are you talking about?
Survivor is getting basekit Borrowed Time buffed to the moon, giving said unhooked Survivor every advantage they could possibly want against a tunneling killer, to be nigh uncatchable for most of the roster. Any halfway competant Survivor will be able to waste a pretty huge amount of time, with a strong chance to completely ditch all but the fastest and strongest killers...
And the fastest and strongest killers being able to keep up and still get through it? That's a them problem. Every normal killer trying to tunnel eats a fat W with these changes if the Survivors don't completely suck.
Not sure exactly what more you want.
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Nah bro, we're already masochists playing m1 killers in the first place... what is one more baseball bat to the knees? 😉
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@notJustDante said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023141#Comment_4023141
For the charge speed I was referring to the Slaughtering Strike. Honestly like your points here in general, I agree that Slaughtering Strike changes Myers a bit too much from his original idea but it is what we have now and, still, the new Myers is fun for a lot of players that wouldn't even touch the killer before. It is a good thing you do putting away your taste for the purpose of finding balance, and I wish more people would do that when giving suggestions in this forum.
I don't find the Pursuer mode useless, I was thinking just like you in the beginning but after getting a bit more experienced I find myself changing constantly between Stalk and Pursuer modes. My point to make the 4.4 Stalker Mode basekit is that it is extremely hard to stalk survivors while around a loop to the point where it becomes frustrating, there is no real argument for why he should still be 4.2 in terms of balance.
The stalking sound change would really be pointless if you only stalked while chasing, but if you want to get to your power quickly, the correct play is still to stalk from afar while standing still. I often try to stalk survivors that I have no intent in chasing from as far as possible to then leave and go for someone else, this method is a lot more efficient than trying to stalk during chase, the annoying thing being that sometimes you don't have that choice and you need to stalk in chase, and that's when that 4.2 really becomes a problem. Myers is still supposed to be a stealth killer and it would be better if that aspect was better, and that's why the stalking sound point would be valid.
Vanity's Mirror is way too good because it is the most free information you can get. Most aura add-ons and perks have either a range limit or a weird condition for balancing purposes, Vanity's will trigger every game and always be extremely useful, and honestly you can play it with it being the only information aspect of your build and get great value. This is why I think it is a bit overtuned.
And for the pallet break punishment... Yeah I have no idea why Blight shouldn't receive some lol
Suppose there is argument to switch to hide your red light at the right moments before you switch back, especially since Survivors not healing is common place.
Its hard yo say if he should be 4.4 or not, because other stealth killers have to sacrifice mobility for stealth... though I suppose Ghost Face and Skull Merchant while stood up is 4.6, so 4.4 is probably fine. Buff Pig pl0x.
For Vanity Mirror... I suppose the turnover of Evil Within is pretty quick in general. I wonder if giving him a permanent 24m Whispers effect with this add-on might be good instead... you know, to hit that omnipotent "always knows someone is nearby" part of the character... but to be catty a moment, that supports his lore, and evidently we can't have that (sorry I have slide a snipe in somewhere xD).
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Apathy is a word that springs to mind.
Not as disastrous as last time, but still a pretty unforgiving change for a good majority of the killer cast whether tunneling or not... and yet people still act like the effect is nothing.
At this point I would rather rip the band aid off, kick numerous killers into the dirt and watch the killer exodus to stronger killers, or off the game.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023135#Comment_4023135
Just because killer can teleport, it doesn't mean it's good mobility…
Freddy, Unknown, Xeno, Dredge, Sadako, Demogorgon, Springtrap technically have it, but it's far worse compare to Blight, Kaneki, or Billy.
It all comes down to how quickly you can get where you want and what are your limitations for it. But you could make all of them valid with mostly number changes…Killers without any mobility are limited with this and it can't be easily changed.
Good job dude, you were so much more civil and fair than I could muster xD
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I feel the need to post this again...
P.s. I don't believe this breaks any forum rules, its a quote from the SAW films, but I ensured it didn't contain the swear words, so I am pretty sure this doesn't break forum rules!
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I would say because spending 150s following a Survivor in crouch is incredibly inefficient and a massive gamble, especially if you have a good first chase.
A Pig doing this will for sure only have 1 headtrap out, she has no idea how many searches you have on your headtrap, could be 1, 2, 3 or 4, she has no way to know, so if she wants a head pop, she has to stop you doing boxes period.
If you find a Pig doing this, at your discretion, you as a Survivor can watch gen progress on the HUD, and when they are good and far, say 50% done, just keep a hold of your Jigsaw boxes. Ignore her and force Pig to down you or let you complete the box.
You will get your head trap off, or she will down you and stop your timer. A Pig really determined for a head pop will waste so much time if you keep forcing her to down you, you stand a decent chance of getting hatch.
Especially if you have Sprint Burst, you can bait her to stand up to stop you then sprint away before she can actually down you. This will start chase, cause she is standing, and it will take quite a while for chase to turn off if she remains anywhere near you.