AssortedSorting
AssortedSorting
About
- Username
- AssortedSorting
- Joined
- Visits
- 2,781
- Last Active
Comments
-
I suppose I'lll be back. I like BDB after all. I could and tell my friends about the "cakes"". Just now IU can't "forward the message" in the future, need to use the… well… I don't know… dbd user infetrface
/?
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089080#Comment_4089080
That's why a taunt mechanic doesn't exist in dbd. Those are meant for other purposes, they're just being used as a taunt.
If you want to stretch the definitions so far that "it's to mess with their mind", then nothing in existent is ever toxic, because I could literally call anything "just to mess with their mind".
Not a hardset rule, no, but a pshycological one.
Y'all are saying slugging is not toxic because it's a strategy for winning the game.
If I'm T-bagging a Killer to tilt them to make them hotheaded and think less about macro gameplay to focus on the micro and forgo pressure, that's also a strategy for helping out my other teamates, even if detrimental to my own survival, since I play cooperatively when I play survivor.
The point of trying to taunt the Killer is because there is only one of them, targeting their focus has distinct gameplay advantages (see tunneling for the Killer beneficial version). It's a strategy one way or the other.
-
@Blueberry said:
To me it's all if it has a realistic strategic component. Like slugging for pressure or to avoid perks has a strategic advantage. Tbagging has no strategic advantage other then you just want to make the other person mad. Toxic. Same for bleeding people out once the game's over, this is just to make the other person mad. Toxic.
And no trying to make the other person mad so they chase you is not strategic before someone says that. That's a far, far stretch of the word.
It is literally the premise of a taunt mechanic. And yes, why it's usually done at the gate, or at a pallet/vault loop where you're waiting on the Killer to make a mindgame. So you try to mess with their mind.
-
@CorgiSploots said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089061#Comment_4089061
….How in what I said remotely correlates to 'it's working' It's a nothing burger that if anyone's effected by it needs to put the game down for a bit.
Yet these people exist, and as such, trying to optimize your gameplay to leverage that makes sense too.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089043#Comment_4089043
Works on baby killers, I guess. Can't remember the last time I fell for that.
Your results may vary, as "taunts" aren't an actual game mechanic in DBD, doesn't mean that it can't work though.
I know as Killer Tbagging just gets a shrug from me, or tunneling out the survivor I think they're trying to protect since it likely means they're an easier target whom will be followed by a "protector" who isn't spending more time on gens.
@CorgiSploots said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089043#Comment_4089043
That's more telling of a killer's mental faculties then it is as a strat. Tbagging has been around since Halo it's not some new age thing, it's just being a turd.
If it gets the reaction of "being a turd" out of you, its working to some degree.
-
I'd say Huntress (without Iri hatchet).
Simple Power, simple rules: it travels in an arc, and can collide with terrain. She has a 40m lullaby that lets you know she's in the area which cannot be countered with undetectable, so if you want to pre-run/pre-creep away from a patrol point you can.
She moves slower while charging her hatchet.
Her power varies based on loop length, loop height, and loop type, which you can influence by noting what loops you have in your area, but isn't a 100% guarantee every time.
And overall I think that in a game that was about hiding from the Killer, hiding yourself from Line of Sight, even down to the shape of a loop, fits perfectly.
-
@cogsturning said:
These are totally different. Tbagging is goofy but doesn't stop the killer from playing or help the survivor win. If anything, it sometimes gets survivors killed.
It can help if it agitates the killer to focus on a single survivor who's a good looper. Ergo: it's a strategy.
-
@Wezqu said:
I don't really get how Art is anyway different than Jason, Freddy or Myers. So anyone who claims he should not be in the game are just lying to themselves.
So far as I can tell the Terrifier series is best known for its practical effects. (love The Thing)
-
My only reason against Art being in DBD is that he's mostly already in it, were practical VFX more of a point to be included. And that's just a technicality. Goreporn (VFX and their complexity) would be like a 45s Mori (and redundant computationally), that's not usually competitive at all (aside from promotions).
I'm not really against him being included, just hope the kit is interesting.
(sales are sales though, plastering Art's face onto a character with some gameplay may be/is likely beneficial to both parties)
-
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088008#Comment_4088008
don’t really care too much about my specific setup.
Lets just sum it up as its definitley less lag than wireless and definitley more lag than other games/direct pc inputs. Also it shouldnt be that noticeable on consoles either.
More data-points the better, though I'm hands-off and not sure of the best channels to report functionality.
-
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087988#Comment_4087988
i have noticeable Input lag on Steam when comparing (wired) Controller vs M&K, Ssame monitor used
it used to be way worse a few years back though, so there have been improvements made!Also a possibility that the wires have less data transfer. Extra layers of data communication. Is the wired controller better or worse? What's the wattage/data throughput of the wires?
-
@PIGMaN14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087804#Comment_4087804
What perks and add-ons should I use on pig then? Any chase perks i use dont get a whole ton of value especially when someone uses a gen rushing build. I've experimented with perks and builds but nothing seems to work longer than 2 games
Babmboozle can shutdown problematic loops quickly.
Also, release pig was atrocious via RNG. Her guaranteed 12 searches is much better than the random number of searches based on box key spawns. (seriously, she's better than release regarding average RBT pressure)
Be sure to leverage her crouch for stealth where possible: an early hit through that makes chases that much easier.
Plaything can make getting hooks snowball into more movespeed for patrolling (oblivious survivors) and more secondary objectives for survivors.
Don't be afraid to change targets or forgo chases if the survivor goes into a heavy pallet/strong loop area.
Also, the more you shoot for 4K's, the stronger the survivors will become: curated via the method you choose: go for 4K's via tunneling off-the-bat = stronger on average survivors. go for 4K's via spreading hooks = stronger situational survivors (necessitating an understanding of dropping chase).
-
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087948#Comment_4087948
Input lag and deadzones and response curves. The latter two i can somewhat influence with Steam but console players are completely restricted
Input lag is partially due to the screen used. Monitors made for gaming have a lower input lag, whereas TV's may have a larger Input lag. That's hardware dependent: how long does it take for the respective frame to update the device's signal?
-
Not a huge fan of the data centers being built willy nilly with seemingly little regulation and a disregard for local/environmental health due to a slashing of regulatory policies in the US (and a focus on what's cheapest given AI companies are hemorrhaging money atm) or the overall compute cost needed to render images/video (as I think BHVR will likely outsource to another company's LLM to train their own version).
But I view generative AI as effectively an even more blackbox tool to that of using templates. Helps make things faster, but the resulting template needs to be reformatted to the use-case at hand.
And BHVR needs to understand that generative templates are a tool, not intelligence. It's fed a dataset that creates weights off of inputs that are then shotgunned simultaneously at a "picture". Which creates a bias of how things should look, even if it's incorrect, or causes certain artstyles to be dominant/inherited even when another artstyle is requested.
They need to understand that any AI tool they build/use will have a bias towards the base images used to build/"train" those weights (and lack of weights), and they need to have artists able to work around/fix that, and to also understand that their own artists may develop a bias towards that same AI tool's bias due to exposure.
-
@Fishermin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064243#Comment_4064243
I think the wording on the perk description might be bugging me, then. For example - survivor perk Rookie Spirit similarly states "The auras of any regressing Generators are revealed to you until they stop regressing by any means." Like Trail of Torment, this perk is disabled when a generator is blocked, but then reactivates once the generator is unblocked. For consistency sake, since this gen "stopped regressing by any means", it should not reactivate for this generator.
Combing other perks with similar behaviors, Surveillance has wording I agree with more - "The aura of regressing generators are highlighted in white - If the Regression progress is interrupted on a Generator, its Aura will be highlighted in yellow for 16 seconds." In this example, the word "interrupted" is used, which seems more appropriate for Trails of Torment's case.
If it is confirmed intended, then I can gladly post a write-up in its own thread as to why Trail of Torment should not be designed this way and my suggestions for alternative balance. As this is a very unique killer perk that relies on a generator to be regressing to remain active, it's unfortunate that this is pretty much the only killer perk you can actually self-sabotage by playing a gen-block/slowdown perk (which at least one is pretty much necessary in a good build). It's a huge nerf to a fun non-meta perk, and one of the very few perks that enabled the stealth playstyle (which is already weak).Unlike Trail of Torment Rookie Spirit is a passive "Any regressing generator", so once any generator starts regressing (such as regression starting again after the block ends), you're shown the aura.
It's not "continuing" in a sense from Rookie Spirit. It's just two valid regression triggers, whereas Trail of Torment requires the kick to enable to perk, and there is no "interrupt" consideration.
-
And somehow, the on-rails automatic Mori of PTB's past has returned. Least this time it makes sense given it lets the Killer skip any cleanup duty after survivors abandon. (Though should still let survivors abandon during the Mori animation should they wish to skip it).
-
@Temak said:
I like it. But I don't like this being a perk. This would help against squatters who tryna save their teammate being in 1 meter near hook.
You're already at an advantage with two survivors being pressured at once by both of them being near each other and you in chase.
Seems very situational, and I see this mostly being effective at hooks for proxying to leverage forced Mend delay on the unhooked survivor.
Side-note A perk idea popped up in my head from the term cleave:
Mince: Your basic attacks cause survivors to become Broken, dropping a Pickup where they were injured. The survivor will stay broken until this Meat has been picked up, or they enter the dying state.
-
Well if there's any truth to using the abandon feature messing up your MMR (either by not counting it or marking you as a different state for the Killer), then that could be a cause?
My SWF mostly use it to get to the next match faster in the event the match had been drawn out.
-
Honestly necessary sinch such a perk can be balanced around general usage rather than niche Killer interactions. )don't get me wrong, "extra addons" are cool{
-
Not sure if it's the setting or the type of genre you're after, but I think Psyop, the developer, also made "I Love You Colonel Sanders", before Hooked on You.
-
If you're the one on hook, it's mostly out of your control:
- Teammates need to be able to not rush an unhook, and the gen jockeys can't be too sneaky if the Killer is patrolling so you're not the obvious target if the Killer doesn't find anyone, ideally they also have perks that help you move away from the hook faster.
- Use the Lithe Exhaustion perk to gain distance and hopefully reach a tile if in a dead-zone.
- Bring Jill Valentine's Resurgence Perk to get healed off hook fast, but that does rely on the Killer not literally being on your neck.
- Can also bring Decisive Strike if it's far too common an occurrence.
But it's also largely Killer dependent. Against the better anti-loop Killers you're gonna have a bad time, and can only hope your teamates are juicing every second of your sacrifice timer.
-
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4055256#Comment_4055256
im not disputing that advantages to tunneling, im saying new players that dont have to deal with tunneling wont know how to counter it, wont know how to loop very well or not not know stealth very well due to killers letting them go for free.
im a solo player and often v tunneling killers, i know how to handle it, i can stealth and loop and it means tunneling killers are not an issue for me. Did i learn how to deal with it with killers letting me escape? no. Which is why it baffles me when other solo players and especially SWF players say they find it impossible to counter tunneling. Could it be because when they first started playing they got "nice" killers that treated them like children and allowed them to win? maybe then they liked this feeling of winning with ease, maybe they got used to it, then they get into higher MMR and suddenly the game is not so friendly anymore. Few matches of getting tunneling killers and they maybe they start to get frustrated and wonder how they are supposed to win against this so called unstoppable tactic?
Granted its not your responsibility to train new players how to handle the better players, if you want to play friendly killer by all means carry on, the last thing i would do is tell someone how to play the game. But dont think your doing the survivors any favours because your not. You are still raising their MMR beyond their actual skill level and you are still molly coddling them and basically throwing them to the sharks at a later point, which could lead to them getting frustrated and quitting, thats all im saying.
Eh, TBH stealthing often leads to more tunneling: if the Killer doesn't see you as a target, they have more reason to go back to hook and tunnel the people they actually are engaging with.
But another situation arises, such as it bloody annoys me when I'm literally running around like a chicken a bit away from the Killer and they just go back to chasing my bro with less hours, but that's not due to stealth, just bro is an easier target. Gives bro more chase experience though.
But make no mistake, I'm not deluding myself that this is for them, this is for me, I like the control, and being able to actually try to jumpscare players and take my time. Used to "play to win" (to get a 4K as often as possible) leveraging tunneling and proxying to their fullest, but burnt myself out a few years back. Just chillin' for myself now. But letting all survivors live just makes the game boring with how low the MMR gets and honestly it feels kinda bad given how little a challenge it is.
-
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4055210#Comment_4055210
a single match wouldnt cause a players MMR to increase that much but what if other killers did what you do? keep themselves at the lower ranks giving survivors free escapes, it wouldnt be a single match and trust me you are not the only killer out there that doesnt try to win and lets people escape thinking they are being "nice".
Many people have said they encountered friendly killers that meme around and let them escape…many players have also said they find tunneling impossible to counter and struggle to escape…. maybe these 2 points are connected? hardly surprising people struggle later on in the game if they get used to killers letting them escape.
Tunneling is one of the easiest things to do in the game as Killer, and most effective:
- Killer knows where they hooked the survivor
- Killer feels a sense of attachment/milestone with the hooked survivor
- If Killer roams and searches, and survivors hide (typical in lower MMR lobbies), the unhook notification gives an indication to them that there's a survivor over there
- A lot of newer players just heal under hook instead of running away initially (even then that leaves scratch marks, which are likely unsuppressed given a lack of perk availibility.
- You can proxy the hook and catch rescuers as Killer, giving you another route to patrol for finding survivors
- The Unhooked survivor typically is down a health state, and unless the other survivors bring hook/healing related perks, that can last a while
- You know where the unhook happened and where that now closer to death survivor is.
- Getting one person out opportunely shrinks the pool of available survivors for the Chased/Hooked/Rescuing/Repairing cycle, giving the Killer a lot of leverage.
Killers are more than likely going to start out tunneling at low MMR's. But it's also a strategy that persists in high MMR as one of the best strategies if you're not sacrificing gen pressure (hence the at a distance slowdown/regression meta of Pain res/DMS)
Am I prepairing them to get into that mindset/grindset for how to deal with tunneling? No, and that is something you can point out as a problem.
But this is a problem they are going to have to face anyway, because it's what all Killers will by trying to do, as efficiently as possible, with the current game mechanics. There is no reliable way to counter tunneling, you're either dealing with someone that doesn't need to tunnel, tunneling is going to be happening, or it's a SWF stomp. That's about what I've been experiencing that last few months in my SWF. And woe be those in non-SWF.
-
Killer slowdown is all about making the same generator survivor(s) may have been working on for more than a few minutes to stay regressed with no progress. (imagine being flashlight blinded every now and then during a single match, it's kinda how it feels for lost progress).
Don't get me started on Dead Man's Switch ("Hey let's play the waiting game… the waiting game sucks…" , BHVR please give us hungry hungry hippos to play "instead").
Optimal killer play is to reduce the number of survivors by at least 1 to remove the repair from the cycle of hook/chase/rescue/repair roles for survivor activity while pressuring them consistently. Survivors have very little recourse against this.
Optimal Survivor play is to have one good looper while the rest sequester themselves on generators to pound them out as fast as possible so they can leverage their available hooks states when the patrol area/gen zone shrinks.
So I dunno. Give survivors a way to ease off pressure on a survivor with more hook states than the rest, and give Killer more ways to create additional slowdown than just needing to unhook the hooked survivor that isn't just regressing gens?
-
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4055202#Comment_4055202
So you play as intended for some of the match then essentially give up and let people escape? Thats sounds an awful like a killer going afk not participating in the match when they know they are beat…which is debatable. What is not debatable is that your admitting to intentionally letting people go to lower your MMR so you can play easier opponents. This not only tanks your MMR but it also raises survivors MMR so they get harder opponents faster, possibly too hard for their skill level due to them being given free escapes.
Think about new players you go against, if killers let them go and inflate the survivors MMR they will gain little to no actual experience v killers that actually play the game normally so they will get stomped and then wonder why they are getting matched with experienced players.
Precisely why I 8 Hook and take at least 1 Kill (sometimes 2 depending on the RNG/knowledge of players and RBT's). Even then the consistency with which I play this way should stabilize my MMR and the match predictions to not too greatly inflate their MMR, nor should a single match cause a players MMR to inflate to such a great extent.
I also don't "give up and go afk", I'll still chase, eat pallets, down and carry/release etc. (and deathhook a survivor if they indicate so).
I don't know exactly how the MMR system works, just my own observations on the players I've experienced while playing this way, so, if you know of people that have stated they played against a "friendly"(?) killer and then got back to back stomps, let me know.
-
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4055191#Comment_4055191
soooo you dont play the game as intended and intentionally tank your MMR to get easier opponents?
I like jumpscares and spooking people. Don't have the time to do that if everyone is hyperfocused on gen-speed and hyper-vigilant. I do Hook people, I do make a sacrifice (usually the obsession in the end-game), so I'm still being a "loyal servant to the entity".
But I'm not playing in a comp. mode now are I?
-
There are few if any comeback features nowadays. Killer at least has more control over end-game hook guarding/trading.
As you play against players with more experience, you start to get a vibe of how the match is going to turn out.
Why bang your head against mindless mind-numbing M1 gameplay when you're fairly sure of the result? Not like there's any guarantee the Killer isn't going to slugout for the 4K anyway.
That being said, IMO, it does depend on the Killer. I'll stick around for Nurse/Huntress/The First since they're skillshot/LoS based, me getting hit is not only them being skilled, but also in part my mistake. Blight? That corner-flicking oppressive rushdown everywhere at once Killer? Nah.
-
MMR.
If you're actively trying to improve and "win", you're going to be steadily improving your MMR to pair you with opposing player(s) of similar skill to give both you and them a chance at decent back and forth. This has the knock-on effect of those who are continuously trying to improve, to subsequently min-max and streamline their actions because they want to "win", and to maintain that feeling of "winning" they continuously get shoehorned into more and more efficient metas.
I purposely let most survivors live and screw around (not that I don't give good chase initially, nor do I force survivors to stay in the match), and my MMR places me with new players every now and then, I can bring whatever I want.
-
Y''know, I wonder if it counts as an MMR loss if you manage to get all 4 survivors to disconnect via the 4-man slug abandon feature and then let the NPC bots escape the match.
Could be a way to lower your MMR into new player lobbies to slugout players without actually raising your MMR.
-
Y'know. I get that work-life balance is important, but I'm actually surprised that they don't have anyone on the mod team that was hired specifically with the weekends as part of their standard days of work (and some weekdays off). The volunteer posts are probably to fill weekend gaps, which, I mean, that's when I'd assume there's higher forum traffic anyway. So no pay and higher workload…
-
I consider the end-game Hook (when the EGC has started) to be the period of the "Killer Hatch". The survivors have nearly reached their goal, and this last hook is a bit of a gimmie in that you can start to focus on it for a last ditch effort to secure a(nother) kill. Given that a 2K can considered a draw, I would say that it tracks (but does not feel symmetrical) that this is possible even then given that if the 3K threshold is reached, now the Survivor has hatch.
TBH I'm completely surprised that the Endurance effect off-hook is still present during the EGC.
Use that tool in conjunction with body-blocking (and other tools such as blinding with flashlights to prevent the killer from seeing what angle/who is unhooking, force them to look away) if you are dead-set on trying to get as many out alive instead of cutting losses.
-
Tunneling changes:
- S tier Killers would be even better with the free BBQ.
- All matches would take more total Gen repair time (Indefinite Pop).
- The Haste would be laughably irrelevant on most M1 Killers.
- There would likely be an uptick in proxy-camping to check on the survivor status and/or an uptick on Perks that trigger on unhook (EG: Make your Choice, Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage)
- Spies from the Shadows might see an uptick, since Elusive doesn't state the survivor can't alert crows. (unsure if that works)
- Survivors may try to waste the Killers time with the generous 30s window of Endurance.
- Survivors may try to consolidate hooks across three Survivors and try to force the Killer into tunneling within the 6 Hook window.
- Survivors would use the lack of collision to better take protection hits for the Unhooker.
- Shoulder the Burden may be used offensively to force the death-hook state in certain scenarios.
- The Killer may simply leave deathhook/sequentially hooked survivors slugged instead, incurring even more slugging by necessity.
- "Killer Hatch" - Or EGC Hook camping, is gutted further with 30s of Endurance granting an even larger grace period.
Slugging:
- Unless downed under pallet, there is literally no reason not to start crawling immediately, making being slugged more one-note. (even moreso than it already is).
- Survivors may view the resolve bar as a "goal" to reach to unlock more features.
- The twice healed up criteria for the Abandon feature may be abuseable/reached too early with such perks as For the People in addition to opportunistic slugging with players that have healing/slugging perks.
In general though, I think it's ultimately even more under-the-hood systems that forces the Killer to be mindful of meta-game influences on their gameplay instead of actually giving the survivors tools/map manipulating abilities to try and escape from hook safely. Though I'm indifferent on the slugging change as it likely would come across as "normal" that survivors get up from the dying state over time. (whereas the myriad of these anti-tunneling and anti-camping changes expose that there is a system the Killer is fighting too, and certainly one not well telegraphed).
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034750#Comment_4034750
Like I said, I don't agree that this should be basekit.
Keeping track of where survivors are via ambient information like crows, scratch marks, and unhook notifications is important, and while removing any one of those isn't that big of a deal, I also don't think it's a good idea.
Don't get me wrong, obviously there needs to be more basekit anti-tunnel, but I don't think this particular effect is one of the things that should change there.
My viewpoint is that the unhook notification is flawed when it comes to anti-tunnel, but that I also agree with the sentiment of being rewarded with survivor location info via hooks. It's just that the unhook notification (and subsequent UI update) primarily serves tunneling.
It's something I've always been used to as Killer, and that the game and perk design has been used to (which would need to be addressed with any other kind of suppression).
But maybe if hooking a survivor gave some kind of a basekit Spies from the Shadows effect for a duration instead? That could be something that provides location information while also promoting movement around the map.
-
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034093#Comment_4034093
Some strong points there for sure.
As an Entity Accursed Survivor, what incentive do I have to try to hide from the killer instead of taking chase, given I cannot repair generators/cleanse totem, etc. as fast as other survivors, and if hooked again, gain the benefit of an increased hook timer?
You can certainly decide to do that, though that is a pretty hefty risk to immediately go for deathhook given you only get the extended BT on your second hook, and it also assumes the killer doesn't hook someone else before you can take chase, and even if you do get your 2 hooks chase extended BT, you can still be effectively slugged for chase. I think playing the "hero" who takes constant chase is a skill expression that shouldn't be an option to you.
As an unhooker, what incentive do I have to make myself more conspicuous to the Killer and take chase, when I can repair gens faster than the unhooked survivor.
I mean that's a decision. A second hook state is still second hook state, and unlike the old repair boost setup, a Survivor dying early is still not a desirable outcome. The killer only needs 1 other hook to be able to kill off a Survivor effectively like normal, so allowing a death hook Survivor early is still not a good idea for the long term effectiveness of the Survivor team as a whole.
Pain res is already meta. Does it really need a buff? In addition to the axing of toolboxes? Is more M1 gen simulator a good idea? Same thing with Pop. You're entrenching these to be even more meta picks and essentially form the game around them. Like old Dead Hard and DStrike. Especially paired together: Pain res → Pop the gen that regressed, also benefitting high mobility killers even more.
Well tbh, I would say Pain Res is not really meta for m1 killers. Pain Res relies on you being able to get downs consistently across the whole team, and many m1 killers cannot afford to hunt for all 4 players before the game runs away from them, and for Pop many M1 killers cant afford to keep stopping to kick gens... many m1 killers prefer Surge instwad for this reason. The problem is more pronounced especially if you hamper tunneling in that equation.
However you do make a fair point that this does make these perks better in the meta, amd consequently the S tier killers even better... However I would also hope these changes would result in finally some actually nerfs for said killers in truth. But yes, downsides could be enough for that equation.
Yeah, being able to "sprint" while downed would certainly add at least an additional layer of agency/choice (even if it may not do all that much). I do think it should be as natural as just pressing the sprint button, but I agree the boost in speed shouldn't be accessible at full strength after immediately being downed.
Glad you like it bro! That's the main thing I like about it, and truthfully I don't perceive slugging as being the huge problem many people do. The one issue it does have is that Suvivors crawl so slow, they can't move from/to location if they need to, to recover if the killer leaves them slugged. I feel like the fact the Survivors have more options and isn't the instant game ender it currently is would resolve a lot of the slugging frustrations, as well as make it not something you can 100% commit to as a winning scenario.
I don't think Killer instinct on the last downed survivor is needed. You decided not to pickup.
Hmmm? Killer Instinct is only granted when the Survivor is not slugged? The idea is it's a incentive to just go for the end game instead of slug, since you get a clue where to look.
You can certainly decide to do that, though that is a pretty hefty risk to immediately go for deathhook given you only get the extended BT on your second hook, and it also assumes the killer doesn't hook someone else before you can take chase, and even if you do get your 2 hooks chase extended BT, you can still be effectively slugged for chase. I think playing the "hero" who takes constant chase is a skill expression that shouldn't be an option to you.
It is a risk for sure. And you certainly can just be slugged, like the DStrike days. (Which means slugging may be more beneficial than before.)
The Killer certainly can ping pong between survivors, but this can also include the rescuer, which may be easily done via proxy-camping, with everything consolidated into one zone on the map.
As an aside: All players equally skilled, I agree playing the "hero" isn't something that should be done, but that can be volatile. I know in the SWF group I just started playing with, we've got a god looper survivor flashy main, a Killer main gen jockey, I tend to play Killer more when solo but do play survivor some too and am a somewhat decent looper, and someone who just started and has less than 20hrs in the game. Whiplash between match results is real, depending on who is the first to get found. (And I've found great use out of Jonah's Corrective Action Perk). I would much rather take chase for the fresh starter.
I mean that's a decision. A second hook state is still second hook state, and unlike the old repair boost setup, a Survivor dying early is still not a desirable outcome. The killer only needs 1 other hook to be able to kill off a Survivor effectively like normal, so allowing a death hook Survivor early is still not a good idea for the long term effectiveness of the Survivor team as a whole.
It is a decision, but certainly one the Killer is weighing too, potentially making that decision for the unhooker (by tunneling anyway). All depending on how bad it actually is (for Survivors) to have a survivor on deathhook that early.
Well tbh, I would say Pain Res is not really meta for m1 killers. Pain Res relies on you being able to get downs consistently across the whole team, and many m1 killers cannot afford to hunt for all 4 players before the game runs away from them, and for Pop many M1 killers cant afford to keep stopping to kick gens... many m1 killers prefer Surge instwad for this reason. The problem is more pronounced especially if you hamper tunneling in that equation.
Depending on how this all turns out with anti-tunneling/anti-camping, those same M1 Killers may see an increase in the ability to target different survivors, and as such the viability of these perks.
Hmmm? Killer Instinct is only granted when the Survivor is not slugged? The idea is it's a incentive to just go for the end game instead of slug, since you get a clue where to look.
Oh, gotcha. In that case I still don't think it's a great idea, since those looking for the 4K will likely still slug anyway to prevent the hatch from even being a possibility, and should the survivor bleedout after finding the other survivor alive, that's still a 4K.
-
Onus should be on Survivors to not get tunneled, but Survivors don't have the tools to do so decently.
-
I don't think Killer instinct on the last downed survivor is needed. You decided not to pickup.
-
Regarding slugging:
Yeah, being able to "sprint" while downed would certainly add at least an additional layer of agency/choice (even if it may not do all that much). I do think it should be as natural as just pressing the sprint button, but I agree the boost in speed shouldn't be accessible at full strength after immediately being downed.
And survivors being able to tandem pickup/heal while both in the dying state fits with the healing/team theme for the survivor role itself, and gives survivors a gameplay path to recover from a 4-man slug (not saying they'll win the match, but the agency is important).
As for being solo slugged: crawl to your team, if they don't pick you up, that's on the team. If you're the last alive, you have the abandon match feature. Though that being tucked in the corner it's possible new players don't notice it/don't know if pressing it immediately abandons, etc. May be helpful to have a tip show up on screen the first few times it pops up?
-
While it's something I shrugged at and said "it's okay", it's certainly not an intuitive feature, necessitating more meta-game knowledge about game-state, while not bringing much to make the experience of being slugged that much different.
-
Tunneling:
As an Entity Accursed Survivor, what incentive do I have to try to hide from the killer instead of taking chase, given I cannot repair generators/cleanse totem, etc. as fast as other survivors, and if hooked again, gain the benefit of an increased hook timer? Perhaps though I'm not good at chase, but I may have DStrike.
As an unhooker, what incentive do I have to make myself more conspicuous to the Killer and take chase, when I can repair gens faster than the unhooked survivor, may have more time to unhook the other survivor if they get downed again, and know the Killer may have a bit more of an incentive to find me than the unhooked survivor? But perhaps they're on death-hook.
Pain res is already meta. Does it really need a buff? In addition to the axing of toolboxes? Is more M1 gen simulator a good idea? Same thing with Pop. You're entrenching these to be even more meta picks and essentially form the game around them. Like old Dead Hard and DStrike. Especially paired together: Pain res → Pop the gen that regressed, also benefitting high mobility killers even more.
You've successfully made some perks that may actively entice the survivor to get tunneled, in addition to their base effects.
Slugging:
Desperation seems unnecessary, as part of an "anti-slugging" feature, but does seem to make being slugged a more interesting experience. Though I wonder if the sprint button could be incorporated in some manner: crawl faster but bleedout faster/more noise, with the speed increase based on recovery %.
Downed survivors being able to heal/stand each other up is interesting.
I'd say the Last survivor/all survivor bleedout situation should be addressed, but that was done via the abandon match feature. So then the concern is about heavy slugging while the Killer is occupying other survivors. (and making the dying state be a little more interesting mechanically), which the tandem pickup seems to address.
-
@HowlinMoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033955#Comment_4033955
I may have worded it poorly, but the intensity of the phasing sound to a survivor is her distance from you, and she has directional audio. I think there is an add-on that makes the audio always full intensity no matter where you are, but I think there is still directional audio. For the year I've been playing, Spirit's phasing has directional audio from where she is during phasing.
Ah, gotcha.
Then so long as they add equivalent accessibility for Spirit listening to injured survivors/footsteps.
(and maybe instead of a UI indicator it's frost-colored scratch marks visible to survivors? Like being in the spirit world is freezing the nearby terrain where she walks, albeit in a decently large spread so there isn't precise information)
-
Did they change it to directional? Thought it just grew in intensity based on distance, not direction (I noticed that Huntress' is now, after facing one that utilized Undetectable in their kit). I also can't really recall it even being intensity based, the last time I played against her. Was it a recent change?
-
It'd be better atmosphere for sure, and also reduce the amount of information for both killer and survivor on maps with large line of sight. (without the use of Auras).
It may also help some newbies, I know a few times early on when we were getting someone into the game, they lost sight of a hooked survivor because they ran into the open and suddenly couldn't see the survivors aura anymore (because now there was nothing blocking it to provide a distinct indicator).
-
I've been playing SWF with some folks recently and the survivor main I play with hasn't really said much about pallets at all. When I've been using maps I've also not seen too little pallets.
I've always wondered: is pallet density also influenced by the players respective MMR?
-
I agree, since I feel the game has been heavily leaning on looping than respecting the terror radius, though I would prefer them adding things like dead-zones with extreme LOS blockers in some of those zone, be it foliage/fog etc, line-of-sight play (like you would do against the Nurse).
-
I mean I also typically abandon at the end to move to the lobby faster/ready up faster. Which if that then isn't tracked is odd.
-
@nikodemo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030995#Comment_4030995
just keep it in the UI. the ONLY reason to notify me is so i can go back. that's it.
That just feeds into the statistic that higher MMR killers will tunnel more frequently, instead now needing bandwidth keeping tabs on the lefthand UI. To counter that you'd need to have delayed information, but that turns into more information warfare against the games UI that's beholden to the system instead of any other player interaction and still feels artificial.
It also gives newer killers more reason to camp or proxy hook (even though they statistically camp more than tunnel), given to have that information about hooks, they'd needs eye's-on (with the delay info to address HUD checking).
That being said, with no audible notification, the player isn't alerted to new information through as many channels (nor an easily distinguished one such as sound in this game with periods of quiet) and may lower importance when not seriously considering it given only a small UI change. I wouldn't be against removing the audio notification. But if it turns into UI shenanigans I'm against it.
-
Oh, also:
With the introduction of the anti-camp meter shown on the HUD, you now have the "Camping Aura" read on the Killer that comes with Kindred (at 16m), though not as immediately evident.
You have preoccupation information via the Survivor HUD and interactions. From this you can derive who is available to go for the unhook.
You don't have the ability to callout which direction the Killer is heading (this could be solved with a directional shaking fist emote, directed at the Killer while hooked (albeit this could also be used to grief to give the Killer information on the direction of a survivor, though this has its own benefits and detriments)).
And you don't have information on who the closest survivor is. (this one is likely best done via an Aura reveal, as a beckon emote could be leveraged by the Killer, although this too has interesting benefits and detriments).
In fact, a more robust emote system while hooked provides a lot of player agency while on hook too - relaying information to your team. Possibly also making it less boring, but finding issues when it comes to directions further behind the direction Survivor faces.
-
@nikodemo said:
Look, the tunneling, the slugging, the camping.
If you want to stop this you're going to just have to bite the bullet and literally make them impossible.
That means:
- Basekit recover from slug
- No more Unhook notifications
- Entity moves survivor to another hook if they camp, just like the cages.
This is the ONLY way to resolve these issues.
Killers will not like this. I am a Killer main. But if this is what you want to achieve, and I understand why you would, I would suggest just do it, and then observe the impact and buff killers down the line as needed to compensate.
Please just rip off the bandaid at this point. You can't tweak your way out of this with overly complicated subsystems.
Just do it. We'll adapt. We always do.
Keep unhook notifications. That doesn't mean they need to be accurate to where the unhooked survivor is.
Moving hooks can also be abused to proxy then contest and relocate the survivor, eating away at more sacrifice time and possibly hitting the next stage, since usually they're relocated cross-map (I've done this with PHead cages a few times). Sometimes there's another survivor over there ready for the save, sometimes not.
Making it another automatic system limits player interaction and becomes something to blame as an integral part of the game instead of any human error.
-
@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/460895/tunnel-slug-camp-do-what-must-be-done
then wed have to adress sabos/pallet saves/flashlight saves/body blocking/second chance perks/items etc too while were at it… aka dbd 2.0
Which is why I'd suggest a slugging recovery effect that only occurs while directly underneath a hook, you'd need to crawl out of safety. Though dropping a survivor because of Body/blocking would still be an edge-case.
-
Started playing DBD again with full-SWF (instead of Killer) with some new folks, and I default to trying to take a hit just because it's… second nature? And half the group are worse at looping than I am. (with the other bloke really good at it), so I'd rather them not get chased and/or give them extra time. Rarely do get the opportunity to do so, but when you have a "shield", especially one that falls off rather quickly, I want to use it, if I can. And also, getting hit gives me a speed boost, in the event the Killer was actually still going to tunnel me anyway. (Which from the perspective of a Killer is a catch-22 because I view this as an invitation to be tunneled).
I doubt making the unhooker lose out on the safe unhook score event would change things, since it's not the unhooker making this decision. (and there are times where the unhooker may have equal or more hook states such that whom is being tunneled is ambiguous).
To better dissuade the unhooked from playing a protector, you'd need to give them something other than a "shield", which endurance is.