We need less m2 killers
Call me crazy, but I’m getting tired of seeing new Killers whose entire kit revolves around their M2. I also do not believe I am the only one with this opinion.
Look at the last 8 releases (assuming I have not missed any)
- Judgment — beam of light
- Jason — spear/pike
- Trickster — knives
- The First — tendril/AOE attack
- Animatronic — axe throwing
- Ghoul — Kagune/tendril attack
- Dark Lord — Hellfire + Pounce
- Unknown — his orb projectile thing
Need I say more?
To be clear, I don’t have a problem with M2-focused Killers. They can be fun and they add variety. My issue is that M1 Killers seem to be getting completely overlooked.
Eight consecutive Killer releases have had a way to damage/down Survivors without relying on a traditional M1 (with Ghoul being the obvious exception once his Kagune attack is used).
DBD would benefit massively from a shift in the other direction:
1. Release more Killers whose power revolves around M1 gameplay.
2. Buff older M1 Killers to better deal with modern pallet density and looping. OR option 4
3. Nerf M2 Killers individually when their ranged/special attacks become too oppressive 4. Reduce pallet density so that M1 killer experience is not pallet breaking simulator
M1 Killers shouldn't have to feel like the "outdated" archetype while every new Killer gets another way to bypass the fundamentals of a chase. Nor should survivors be able to cheese any given killer by just holding W or spamming pallet drops/vaults w/out skilled play
And before anyone assumes this is a survivor main complaining: I'm a Killer main. I've maintained 80%+ kill rates on multiple Killers over extended periods, with several others sitting around 70–75%. I can provide screenshots if anyone really wants them as proof.
we need to see more variety in how Killers actually play, rather than every new Killer getting another flavor of "press M2 to get a hit."
Unrelated - but another way to help out M1 killers w/out directly aiding m2 killers is to
- Make more perks that focus entirely on m1
- Buff existing M1 perks (like how Save the best for last was buffed) (IE buff Hex: NBM, Rapid Brutal, Sloppy Butcher, etc)
Comments
Hoping Art the clown is an m1 killer and not another ranged killer.
Was thinking the same thing today. I love to play Ghostface and i want more killers like him….It does not have to be a stalking killer but maybe something with stealth or good mobility e.g Sadako without the condemed. Power Creep needs to stop pls :)
Those are not the last 8 releases. You forgot Krasue and Houndmaster, who both have M2s but get the majority of their hits and downs from M1s. Also, Lich came out after Unknown. Also also, Trickster has existed for a long time and was already an M2 killer before his unrework.
To the plea for more M1 variety posed by OP: can you come up with an interesting and fun mechanic for an M1 killer that isn't already in the game? IMO, it's not that the devs dislike making M1 killers, it's that their design is inherently limited. There are only so many ways to M1 a surv, but there are myriad ways to invent a new M2.
Not a problem -
Idea #1 - X killer can 1. block windows/pallets and whilst withing Y AOE of said blocked window/pallet they gain haste or apply hinder to any survivor (stronger version of doctor but he doesnt have static blast to find survivors)
Idea #2 - X killer can generate entire walls/obstacles to zone a survivor (imagine being chased and suddenly walls form around you and you are boxed like a fish)
Idea #3 - (almost used like a Myers Stalk) - can directly apply hinder to a survivor to help X killer catch up to them
Idea #4 - similar to idea #3 but grants killer haste vs survivor hinder
Idea #5 - Can cause a portion of the terrain to become "sticky" (basically a glue trap) that affects survivors trying to walk through it
Idea #6 - X killer can "charm" Y survivor and make the survivor walk towards the killer unless Y survivor performs a certain number of skill checks to escape the charm effect
Idea #7 - A killer with a lasso - where if he lassos a survivor, they are either immobilized until they break free, or he can reel them in (similar to deathslinger but much faster and collision wont affect it, but killer cant dmg survivors unless w/ m1)
need more ideas?
1 will be unfun
2 seems genuinely interesting but many people will likely hate playing against it
345 seem to just be clown
67 are just worse versions of slinger
Idea #8 - killer can cast themselves plus 1 survivor into a seperate dimension where they cannot down X survivor but the more they hit them or apply some kind of effect (or even just a version of absorbing blood like oni) - they gain a permament effect that can scale over-time (IE faster movement, faster vault/breaking pallets, reduced attack duration, buffing perks base effects (like how Rapid gives 5%, it could instead scale up to 15%,etc))
Idea #9 - killer can straight up eat a survivor -where the survivor is inside the bowels of said killer and have to basically upset the stomach so killer vomits survivor back out. Whilst *consumed - killer gains X effect (maybe flight, 1 shotting survivors, etc, something crazy).
Idea #10 - Killer can phase through walls as an ability but cannot attack survivor in "phase mode"
There are a ton of different ideas that could be implemented - do those satisfy ?
Problem Stems from the idea that killers should be linear rather than entirely their own… there's officially enough killers in DBD where almost any killer they add will have similarities to other ones and it isn't avoidable without making a convoluted kit (hence lack of newer M1 killers) if Killers were the concept their matches were played around there would be much more room for expression but since they aren't I think M2 killers is probably the best way to continue to push a diverse character roster.
ghoul should not count as he has to M1 you to down you 100% of the time.
Honestly there's only so much you can do with m1. And looking at even early killers there's still pretty heavy m2 usage. Hillbilly and huntress are two of the oldest killers and they rely heavily on their m2s.
Ghoul is m1 killer though, its just has insane map mobility and pretty much a free hit, but to down it needs m1
Furthermore pure m1 killer barely selling as killers want a killer that ignore survivor defenses
#8 I feel like a killer with a randomly generated 1v1 zone where perks dont work could be really fun
#9 seems fun
#10 A worse version of spirit/nurse
Honestly yeah there are definitely plenty of usable ideas now that I think of it, which is why it's a bit sad seeing we have so much ranged/dash slop
The problem is, Some of these ideas are nice, but at the same time is You have to take onto account time management with these. It's objectively easier to not worry about tweaking abilities to much with simple Dashes, and Range Attacks.
Although I do like these ideas
He'll probably be M1 primarily, maybe status effect based, and if they feel bold and want to accurately represent Art at his most serious and severe, he'll have some sort of firearm.
Ghost Face is one of the worst killers in the entire game and has an inconsistent and bafflingly bad reveal system. I would laugh so hard if BHVR decides to take notes from GF and make another Killer that frustrating to play.
I feel M1 killers should be separated in the fact whether the M2 can not only down a survivor, but also immediately assist in getting a hit during a chase. Which would mean killers like Ghoul, Singularity or Clown aren't treated in the same vein as Ghostface, Trapper or Hag.
Ghoul has to M1, yes, but he can also use his M2 to jump in front of a survivor and down them. If trapper were to ever press M2 during a chase, it will do nothing for him most of the time other than make the survivor drop that tile.
last time I enjoyed an M1 killer they got deleted from the game for m1ing a little too hard (Skull Merchant 2: Electric Boogaloo)
I think m2s are just easier to balance around. M1 heavy killers are incredibly feast or famine, or are too oppressive if they are actually viable.
they are starting to see a resurgence on some killers with the STBFL buff I am finding. That was one of the perks which really enabled their meta back in the day.
It feels like since BHVR knows M1 Killers have had a much harder time in balancing as of late, they've just stopped making them. It's not great for the game because it encourages the team to ignore these killers even more than they already are.
Springtrap or Jason should've been M1 killers, or had M1 play styles as add-ons (the team should still do this). Attacking from a distance really isn't their style in source media and it's weird that learning a ranged power is necessary for both characters.
I think there is way to create M1 killers if they have good enough secondary power. I just think that M1 killers, purely M1 killers won't be able to catch with latest released and future released killers. Think of Dredge. He has quite good secondaty power, yet as M1 killer he's still weak.
Damn Krasue is already forgotten.