NotJared
NotJared
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I hear and understand all of these reasons, and it does make sense. However, I actually have a huge problem with there being no first-party platforms to share feedback on the game with developers and I don't understand why this can't co-exist with other platforms as the priorities shift elsewhere, beyond perhaps the costs for this forum service.
I don't want to be forced to create accounts on other websites and platforms that force me to agree to terms and policies and give up privacies and data that I don't necessarily want to give away JUST to tell you guys what I think of pallet density changes.
Lots of socials have pivoted to training AI models on posts, pictures, and personal data, which a lot of people are becoming increasingly less okay with.
Putting all of your eggs in one basket with switching to Discord as your primary community center is also risky. As I type this, deeply unpopular age verification systems are being rolled out on Discord that require government IDs to be given out, which is another unpopular move and not something people are likely willing to do JUST to say that the upcoming Skull Merchant rework is the greatest thing they've ever seen!
I understand the majority of the playerbase communicates on third party websites, but maintaining official forums keeps an accessible first party channel for communication that is being found increasingly difficult to maintain in digital spaces.
Additionally, it'd be nice to keep this place as a record of all official changes and patch notes since the inception of the game.
I understand nothing I can say here can stop what's already in motion. Best of luck on the transition, I may see you guys on the Discord.
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I'd like to point out this precedent was set half a decade ago when Open Handed got changed and no one complained then.
This kind of has precedent with Invocations, too, but the fact that if you double up at least you can increase the progress.
That aside, I agree. This nerf is not just overkill, I think it's entering dangerous unfun design space that's going to keep people away from these perks due to how frustrating they are.
There was a reason why nobody used Moment of Glory or Apocalyptic Ingenuity for over a year: If anyone else took the same perk, it was literally impossible to get value out of those perks. Someone would essentially steal it from you after they opened 2 out of the 3 match chests to activate.
And we saw this reflected in these perks' abysmal pick rates. So low picked that they had to buff them so they could be used more than once. Now you actually see them used.
That's also why we never see Open Handed since the nerf, either.
I'm not likely to ever run Shoulder again if these nerfs go thru because of the chance that someone else can deactivate my perks. I don't like that, that makes me feel bad.
I think 2 minutes of 1-tap per use is enough as it is, it would make it far less able to be "abusable" by SWFs bc if they try to "abuse" it then they'll all be 1-tap the whole match, which is a much better risk/reward scenario than it was before. Killers can just go after the Burdened.
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@melissayeti said:
I think only having 8 out of the 12 to use is fine. Personally, I feel like "healing" "boon" "chasing me" are essentially useless to have on the wheel because of the HUD. You can see who is healing, you can see who is putting up the boon, and you can see who is in chase (most of the time). The chase one may be helpful if you have enough distance to where the game isnt detecting you in chase yet. I'd never personally use all 12 options so I like that we can pick and choose which we want to use.
There's no reason why we couldn't still pick and choose what goes in each slot for both theoretical pages. They're not mutually exclusive features
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There is conflicting terminology in perk descriptions, now.
These inconsistencies in terminology go against the perk description overhaul initiative's objective of streamlining DBD terminology, and could cause confusion.
Unrelenting and Help Wanted use the term "Basic Attack Cooldown" (and so does Houndmaster's Knotted Rope addon)
The new Dark Arrogance uses the terminology "Basic-attack recovery"
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There's even LESS reason to run Teamwork: Full Circuit now than there already was.
I don't see any reason why I would ever take Teamwork: Full Circuit now that This Is Not Happening is getting buffed. (Not that its effect is very useful to begin with, to be frank)
At its best case scenario, Full Circuit will still increase the Good zone by 125% smaller than This is Not Happening.
Finding 4-man gens and having all four Survivors on it is an incredibly rare scenario, in most cases you'll probably be repairing with 1 other person, which means in most cases this perk will be making your skillchecks 175% smaller than This is Not Happening or doing nothing at all.Another shortcoming of Teamwork: Full Circuit's perk description is that it is not clear whether the Skill Check zones are bigger for you or your gen-mates or both. So there may be another aspect of this perk that players are overlooking entirely.
So, if it does affect teammates, that's not mentioned at all so players aren't taking it for altruistic purposes. And, if players wanted to take it for themselves, the effect is blown out of the water by the new This Is Not Happening. There's no reason to pick Full Circuit for either altruism or self-use.
Diminishing Returns also makes the 5% gen repair speed bonus totally forgettable and unappealing.
Full Circuit needs some serious love because this meta shakeup is rendering it totally obsolete.
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Down to the Last's new perk description is not very clear.
I love the idea of it but I can't really understand what it does from reading it.
Specifically,
When you are the last Survivor, if you have at least 3 Tokens: For each Token, the Killer cannot see your Aura for 10s
Is this trying to communicate that from the moment you become the final Survivor, you get a form of Low Profile, and then it never activates again? Or is it trying to communicate that every time that a Killer tries to see your aura, it is blocked for 10s x # of Tokens?
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Please report bugs and include your videos and player logs on the Dead by Daylight BetaHub!
https://app.betahub.io/projects/pr-5642738318
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These two perks do almost the exact same thing now except one is objectively better with a bonus effect.
(Yes, I know they technically have different requirements for use, but not much enough that they feel like different perks)
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115969#Comment_4115969
Killer instinct is a quality of life... Just so the killer can become better at using the power, not impacting the game in any way.
When the killer players themselves (finally) realise the killer is OP that says enough.
Op means S tier, nurse and blight are S tier but judgement is literally isn't, like judgement has 0 mobility and was bad at mid range and curves are the thing that lets hit survivors at that range and skill is involved.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115966#Comment_4115966
Survivors are not good at dodging the killer yet cuz she is a new killer and there was a MMR reset so you were likely queued against bad players as well and show your stats on judgement if you don't mind.
The math has nothing to do with this and it's fundamentally wrong, survivors have more than 0.2 to react as they can literally see where the killer is aiming and predicting the curve the killer will do is quite simple.
I'm not senselessly knee-jerkingly reacting, and curves are quite easy to achieve.
Curves are easy to achieve but actually hitting them is very hard, moving the mouse even a little bit will change the trajectory a lot that it will just not even be close to the survivor.
Against a Judgment that has any sense of aim and can flick at the last split second, how is it possible to react to that?
You predict the curve which should be simple as you can literally see where the killer is aiming. I main Henry which requires good prediction from both the killer and survivor, I have played against players who can dodge really well and players who are unable to dodge, it's skill and at some point players will get good at dodging.
"The math has nothing to do with this and it's fundamentally wrong, survivors have more than 0.2 to react as they can literally see where the killer is aiming and predicting the curve the killer will do is quite simple."
I don't think you've played against a Judgment who spawns the Divine Light on top of Survivors, or that you've played with that playstyle. This sounds like you've only gone against or played long range shots on Judgment.
It is possible for a Judgment to direct the beam so that between the moment the curve window ends and the point of lethality begins, the beam is literally directly on top of a Survivor.
With a week of practice, this is incredibly easy to achieve consistently.
When Judgment came out, Judgment only had to predict where a Survivor would be 0.7s in advance.
Then Judgment only had to predict where a Survivor would be 0.4s in advance.
Now Judgment only has to direct the beam 0.2s away from the Survivor, predict where a Survivor will be 0.2s in advance, and then jerk the mouse and flick the beam in whatever direction they predict.
0.2s isn't much time for a Survivor to dodge, so it's quite easy to just aim it directly at a Survivor and hit most times.
Curves are easy to achieve but actually hitting them is very hard, moving the mouse even a little bit will change the trajectory a lot that it will just not even be close to the survivor.
Okay, they're hard to learn, sure. But there are plenty of players who have already mastered it.
Have you tried playing since yesterday's buffs? It's literally impossible to miss the Divine Light in the hands of anyone with sense of direction.
Let's say someone's mastered Judgment's skillshot.
I main Henry which requires good prediction from both the killer and survivor, I have played against players who can dodge really well and players who are unable to dodge, it's skill and at some point players will get good at dodging.
I also main Henry but that's not what we're talking about. Don't compare apples to oranges. They're both circle on ground abilities, sure, but Judgment has WAY bigger margin for error and still gets hits, due to Its ability to change the trajectory of Its attacks at the last moment. Henry is predictable and consistently dodgeable and counterable as long as a Survivor is running away from the center of his attacks, since he cannot change the placement of his attacks once sent.
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I would looooove if we turned the main lobby of the game into a small client-side practice range lobby where we could exit the main menu UI and run around and try things without having to endure a loading screen!
Much like Deadlock.
It would make interfacing with the game so much easier, we could demo outfits, and we could practice with Killers before trying them or try out a new tech that we maybe learned about.
I think it would add quite a valuable deal to the player experience.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115961#Comment_4115961
Because they see any buff to this killer or maybe all killers a bad thing. They don't understand the buff and just complain about it as its categorized as a buff.
@SpyUA said:
I genuinely don't understand why people hate this buff so much, it's such a small buff and this buff needs a lot of skill to use, curves are really hard to do and they are needed at close range and don't do anything at long range.
As survivor you can see the where the killer is aiming and dodging that is not that hard and to counter the curve you predict where the killer will do the nerf and go in opposite direction basically, it's quite obvious where the killer will curve the divine light.
And the killer is not even S tier.
I've given you guys the math on why it's uncounterable.
I'm not senselessly knee-jerkingly reacting, and curves are quite easy to achieve.
The math doesn't add up, I gave you the numbers. Your criticisms of my criticism also don't address my point that this fundamentally changes the identity of the Killer by removing the specialness of Zealousness's power up state.
The maximum duration of curve control is 0.8 seconds.
The beam becomes lethal after 1 second.
This means Survivors have 0.2s to react to wherever they think the Killer might flick the beam.
Against a Judgment that has any sense of aim and can flick at the last split second, how is it possible to react to that?
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What I would love to see is more Command Center consoles for Xeno to tunnel to. I feel like I can't traverse the whole map in 2v8 and I can't get to all the locations I want to reach.
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I'm not confident that Denuvo was activated onto my game. I didn't get any prompts for it. Either way, I haven't yet noticed any change whatsoever while playing today.
That aside, I wanted to say that no matter what happens with anticheat, I don't think anybody is going to be happy with the state of anticheat until cheaters are getting caught and kicked out mid-match. As long as bans are only being dealt after a match, cheaters are going to be able to infiltrate and ruin matches and players will be upset.
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I feel my point is being intentionally misconstrued to align with the initial social media vitriol felt towards this feature's announce before it was even tried in-game.
@DodoSwarm said:
I chose to not take a side until after full release and as of currently… the VFX would probably kill Judgement, it's not that difficult to stop healing and take two steps to either side and start again… the VFX would be too blatant
Judgment is a very unique character in the DBD roster in that they're the only character that can instantly injure just about anybody on the map, anywhere, any time.
If adding an accessibility feature would kill the Killer because the only way they are able to get downs is by hitting people nowhere near the Killer who are focusing on objectives and have no idea where they're about to get hit from, then something is seriously wrong with the Killer's design.
The Killer needs to be viable in chase. If a Killer's only viability is by attacking players who are both not currently engaged in chase or expecting to be attacked, that is a design failure.
@LeFennecFox said:
you'd be feeling good intentionally sniping people that are actively engaged with the game.
Doing the main objective of the game is "not actively engaging with the game" now?
You've taken my comment out of context to passively insult me, which is not very kind nor productive. Please keep conversations respectful on here.
When players are healing or doing gens, with no terror radius in sight, they may reasonably not be expecting to be attacked and have no idea where the beam is coming from. Often times, by the time Survivors realize a beam is coming, they can't react quick enough.
I'm not having a bad time playing against this, but I'm advocating for the average casual DBD player. Many, many players are clearly not enjoying this chapter and are struggling against this Killer because they can't react in time to getting shot from an unexpected direction.
I can't get through a single Judgment game without players insta-DC'ing after getting sniped or insta-giving up or going next. While you and I more hardcore gamers may not necessarily think they're OP, I think this should say something about the broader player experience.
@Crowman said:
There's a directional global sound that plays when Judgement starts charging her beam. Pay attention to the game.
An additional consideration, as the devs explained, is accessibility concerns. I know you can hear the beam coming. Of course you can pay attention to that if you can hear it. It's very clear that you can hear the Beam coming. If you can hear the Beam coming, then even if you're not looking at it, you should know it could be coming your way and to move.
But what about Deaf and Hard of Hearing players who can't hear it coming?
If a visual VFX were added, that wouldn't kill Judgment any more than a global SFX, which already exists. It's just another feature that would help people react and would be great Deaf/HoH accessibility.
DBD players have been arguing and fighting against Deaf and Hard of Hearing accessibility features in this game since day one. This game has been infamously inaccessible since its inception. It took us six years of us fighting AGAINST accessibility before they decided to add the visual heartbeat, and now it's one of the more beloved features in the game. It took us almost a decade before simple colorblindness accessibility features were added.
I'm not clear on why everyone hates the idea of a non-directional VFX even for accessibility concerns when there's already a global directional SFX. A screen VFX wouldn't give you any more information that you can't already hear - as a matter of fact, it would give you less information since it doesn't tell you where it's coming from or how close it is.
I'm earnestly asking, what is the concern with adding a Screen "Beam is heading your way" VFX? Would it ruin your ability to hit players who have no idea where they're about to get sniped from? That it would tell players who can already hear that a beam is nearby thanks to the global directional SFX that a beam is nearby?
Everyone keeps pointing out that you can hear it, so genuinely, what difference would a non-directional VFX make if it's supposedly easy enough to sidestep it from directional SFX alone?
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This behavior existed before and in MANY scenarios, rerouting the guards has been the ONLY way to counterplay against The Knight.
I say this as a P100 Knight main - but it is very important to consider fair counterplay to Killers.
The reroute tech isn't something that renders Knight useless, you can successfully call it out and play around it. But it is necessary to prevent uncounterable scenarios for Survivors, such as when they are in a map corner with no connecting resources.
I truly don't understand what the point in having guards abandon Hunts that are rerouted to longer than 48m… while no, they weren't likely to reach anyone, it doesn't really add any meaningful gameplay to remove it.
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I've had Survivors be liberated inside of my collider as Killer
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I don't think it's overpowered, but it's annoying as HECK and it's encouraging a lot of slugging gameplay. It's also extremely unintuitive and overwhelming and upsetting for casual players who don't know the perks and don't understand what's happening.
Is this combo overpowered? No. Is it problematic? Absolutely.
It's really just deeply unfun to go against.
It allows for constant slugging-for-the-4K, and one of the strongest slugging builds was just strangely buffed (Nurse's Calling + Coulrophobia) and I don't think that's what we should be striving for right now.
Lots of players are confused and complaining in my endgame chats.
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To follow up on my initial thoughts, I've been discussing this with friends who play and thinking over this all week, reading over online discussions since the announcement (such as the suggestions that people who opt out of a system to avoid harassment need to be put into a separate queue) and a pal put our biggest concerns plainly:
This makes me worried it's only going to lead to more end game chat toxicity if you didn't engage in the intent wheel enough in the eyes of other players.For this reason, to help curb endgame fingerpointing and harassment and toxicity, I am re-asserting that I think it would be very important for the game to indicate players who have opted out of the chat wheel.
As someone else said, it would be greatly frustrating if I were frantically sending out "Help!" with no way to know that my cries for help were not being received by anyone else in the lobby because everyone else has the chat wheel muted.
This would greatly relieve stress and miscommunication between players who think that their Intent Wheel chats are being received by teammates, who in reality see nothing of what they're communicating to the team. This will prevent players from relying on players who have opted out of the Intent Wheel to act around their communicated Intents, and this will also help people from accosting each other in endgame chat.
I can already see the fights:
"I said I was going to go do this! Why didn't you do anything? Useless teammate *insert expletive here*"
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I'm a 7.1k hour-player that 50/50 splits on Survivor/Killer, and I largely but not exclusively play solo queue on Survivor.
As someone that's seen and received over a decade of harassment and toxic behaviors in Dead by Daylight, something that's very important to me in a system like this is the ability to quickly be able to immediately mute any players abusing the chat wheel for harassment.
Where there's a will, there's a way, and gamers will somehow figure out how to use the chat wheel to harass teammates by turning a specific chat option into something it was never intended to be. That's simply an inevitability.
When this happens, it's important that I can tab out, select a player, mute them, then immediately return to gameplay with minimal interference.
The introduction of the Killer Power bio in the Match Details screen failed on this front, because since the introduction of Killer Powers in Match Details it is no longer convenient to tab out and see my Quests, now that they're on a whole 'nother tab. I have to tab out of my game (which is already undesirable as it is), scroll my mouse cursor over to the right tab, select it, then scroll down through a scrollbar-list of quests to find the one I'm looking for, all while losing out on precious gen repair time or stopping mid-chase or risking myself getting caught. The inconvenience to check Quests is no longer worth it, so I no longer do it.
That's my biggest worry with a system like this - that it will be so inconvenient to quiet the bad actors, that people may rather opt out of the system altogether.
The Mute/player safety system needs to be quick, convenient, and easy.
It would also be very worth indicating to the whole lobby when a player has opted out of the Chat Wheel system - this can prevent frustrated teammates from becoming even more frustrated that their teammates aren't reacting to their callouts, and so players know their callouts aren't being sent to an unresponsive brick wall.
Based on the design of the current Mute icons, I would also expect the Mute functionality to work in End Game Chat and prevent me from being able to see their typed-chat. I would actually love for it to work like this, that would genuinely be a great feature to help drown out End Game Chat harassment (which is usually all EGC is ever used for, anyway).
This is the exact same icon as the lobby chat. If I clicked a button that looked like THIS^ and I still received messages from someone in End Game Chat, I'd be pretty disappointed, I cannot lie.
I'm still thinking over more of my first impressions, and I'll come back to this post in time once I have.
I understand that the list can and may change, but would it be possible that we could get a full list of ALL currently-planned chat options? This would help us give feedback and insight on what's missing, what's unnecessary, and what's potentially abusable for harassment.
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Really hoping today's announcements means that we may finally see a reduction in chests required to activate Moment of Glory or Apocalyptic Ingenuity!
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*Edited, accidentally posted a blank post originally before content was added to body
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I do severely miss that, actually.
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I would like to point out, it is not locked behind Auric Cells.
All original cosmetics for original characters in this game are free to purchase with shards after a month of being out.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
Besides the quests, of course.
There is simply no new mechanics for them, no buffs, nothing, only insanely strong mechanics that only work for the survivors. The only thing the killers get are some small dessert buffs once the game is pretty much over.
Like, why would anyone queue up in a mode where you're simply at an overwhelming disadvantage? lmao
I don't mind there being busted Survivor mechanics as long as Killer had busted mechanics to match.
Which, while the Poison is mildly interesting and unique (even if not terribly useful), pales in comparison to the amount of things Survivors can do.
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The imbalance in new mechanics per role isn't even funny, this is absolutely miserable for Killer.
Survivors have eleven new mechanics, and Killers have one, that while cool, is not very useful.
This is a little outrageous, events should be fun for both roles, not just new toys and fun for Survivor and only stress for Killer.
I don't mind the Survivor mechanics! But jeez why is there NOTHING for Killer to do but just sit there and take it, Morsel after Payoff after Global effect after Morsel after Morsel after Morsel after Payoff after Morsel after Payoff????
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093260#Comment_4093260
Throwing the bottle is quite op effect too as they literally will stop moving little bit after they get hit by it, but still its one ability when survivors get several I would say are stronger.
The bottle throw is almost useless bc the effect is cleansed as soon as you hit them, and if you can hit them with the bottle then you're probably already in hit range.
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@TropesDaMan said:
i wish Killers got the ability to eat the food
Exactly! Why can't Killers have fun, too?
Survivors get full team insta-heals, insta-dashes, teleports, invisibility, invulnerability, unbreakable pallets, the ability to rebuild pallets, free fragile pallets, free items, item recharges, haste to move as fast or faster than killer, free elusive.
Killers get… sometimes Survivors can't sprint. If you're lucky.
The imbalance in the amount of new mechanics for each team is absolutely insane.
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@TropesDaMan said:
This made me chuckle, i hope your friend does well, are they doing survivor or killer?
He's trying Killer! He tried DBD Survivor years ago, his very first match on the game was a Blight that slugged everyone to death. That game was so miserable he never touched the game again for 3-4 years. He refuses to play Survivor by himself because of that experience but he's found he really enjoys Killer.
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<3 It's good that this was clarified that this wasn't on their end. I hope they're able to get this resolved
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@Crowman said:
It's probably not the band doing it as much as the record label using the auto id feature to copyright strike music. Considering the song isn't officially out yet. Most of this stuff is usually just automated.
I think most assume that it's likely the label and not the band, but in the end this is still happening and this reflects badly on the band, since they are the figureheads.
Automated or not, this never should have happened. They knew streamers were gonna be streaming it. It's affecting streamers' livelihoods.
Players are so mad that they are submitting support tickets to request refunds for the cosmetics they added to the game and recommending others to not purchase the cosmetics.
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I would love nothing more than a Jacqueline Natla skin in DBD! She could even work as a Survivor tbh.
Jonah, Zip, or Sam legendaries, too.
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@Wezqu said:
You can always chose to report it as not duplicate then it just needs to be checked by dev/mod to let it be posted.
Sometimes it doesn't give me an option to not post as duplicate, it automatically assigns it as a duplicate if it thinks the percent match is high enough.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4079875#Comment_4079875
They could be using band aids, patches, wraps or w/e first aid stuff from their pockets or something. There are plenty of options that would make more sense than what we currently have.
I hear what you mean, but at this point in DBD's life cycle, I feel the ambiguity of "Healing Hands" works because there's such a wide array of types of damage that Survivors can endure.
From Sadako's psychic damage to fire burns from Dracula, there's a whole array of atypical types of damage that would not make sense to be healed by wraps or bandages, and the game risks having immersion broken if they were to be repaired with a specific remedy.
"Healing Hands" keeps a blank spot of ambiguity that lets your brain fill in the gaps with your imagination, which I think is a good "one size fits all" solution without creating too much work for dozens of individual animations for each injury type
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I’m not sure what this is about. Mine have gone through and have been stoned on. I just use the ingame report button, nothing else.
In a recent email they said that they no longer require video proof or screenshots that the ingame report feature is enough.
I've started sending those in because they don't do anything about my player reports. I don't know what to do but I'm feeling exhausted and like I've been put on a "DNI" list or something
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Something that makes Killer incredibly unfun in this game mode is the fact that Survivors can be anywhere between the Pumps and the Fenerators. More likely than not, they're not at the Generator, they're traveling back and forth from Pumps.
Which means whenever you check a blood gen, it's not likely to have progress or a Survivor. If you turn around for 30 seconds, suddenly the gen is completed even though you saw no signs of Survivors nearby.
All Pumps need their auras shown, and Blood Gens need to take longer.
The aura of the closest Pump is shown, but only when you approach a gen, and it's not necessarily the one that Survivors have decided to source their blood from.
I don't think relying on a blood trail being visible from the Blood Cans can solve this issue because it's sporadic and difficult to track. It helps sometimes but mot nearly enough.
Blood Cans should leave constant and consistent, thick trails to help Killers track them and to help them defend Blood Gens - especially since Cans are something a Survivor can just ditch if they're scared of being tracked.
This event is really and truly just miserable to play as Killer, it's not fun, it's not interesting, and it's hard in an unfun way.
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I think an issue with being able to turn chase music off entirely is something that you noted - if you're not turning off an entire section of the game's design - music - then you're basically throwing: suddenly now you can track Killers thru walls very easily by listening to their movements in-chase. So how do we mediate turning 'completely ignoring a core part of the gameplay design' into the meta?
I do agree that the audio settings overall could be more robust, though. Things like SFX, character voicelines, etc. would be harmless to add.
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I've described my issues with the Fog Vials pre-update in the PTB feedback and I still hold by them:
Players aren't going to use Fog Vials unless they can be guaranteed value out of them, and even though they are more useful than before, you can't really feel the value they give you. And if they don't feel good, even if they are better, players aren't going to care.
The new fog vials are really only useful at long-range, or to obfuscate auras.
If I pop a Fog Vial at long range, I've revealed my position 100% guaranteed.
I can't always tell if a Killer has an aura perk, so if I pop it to hide an aura, I'm taking a total gamble/risk.
If I pop a Fog Vial at close range, it is absolutely useless. It is too small, too short-duration, too easy to see through, and it does not feel good at all.
I also think a major misleading caveat to using the Fog Vial is that, due to the difference in opacity when inside of vs outside the fog, it can create a misleading effect for the Survivors, where you can easily forget that Killers inside of the bubble can see you when you're outside of the Bubble. Which makes leaving the Bubbles significantly more dangerous.
Since it's impossible to guarantee value out of this, Survivors are much more likely they KNOW they can get value out of. Medkits and Toolboxes have direct effects that you can immediately feel.
Every item in the game needs to feel WORTH running, and if you can't guarantee value out of a Fog Vial, why would you take it?
Fog Vials either need Potent Extract base kit so players can use them at close range and feel like they're getting value, or else they need unlimited charges back so that when you're gambling on trying to hide, you don't feel like your item is going to waste if you fail to get value.
Try: General Fog Vials have unlimited charges, but using the Potent Extract add-on caps it to 4 uses?
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Myers is miserable to face now. His rework is genuinely one of the worst things to happen to DBD.
An unthematic Dash power that just makes him weird and inauthentic to the character.
He gains his stalk so quickly that it's trivial - so trivial that it feels like stalking at all is a contrived mechanic.
The outpouring of cries for buffs have removed all of the safeguards and now he's just an Instadowning Pig that can munch pallets. The overbuffs and removal of any slowdown both removed any sense of skill expression that this rework tried to give him, while removing much counterplay that was important for him to have - he is both stupidly easy to play and gets incredible results over it, but as Survivor it NEVER feels like I'm getting outplayed. It feels like you're just dead if you don't find a chain of pallets for him to munch.
He can dash around almost any loop with a free instadown dash that has zero movement restrictions, unlike every other instadown Special Attack in the game.
What is the point in playing Pig when you can play Myers and get better results for the exact same gameplay dash and half the skill required?
He's not fun to play against, he never feels like he outplays me as Survivor, it just feels like I run out of options and die.
Playing as him sucks, too. He's so easy to play that there's no skill expression, my downs feel unfair and unearned, and he feels so unlike what Michael is supposed to represent as a character that I want to avoid playing him because I don't feel like whatever this is embodies the character. So I hate facing him, and now I don't want to play as him.
I don't care if he's "better" or more adapted to current DBD, old Myers had a theme and he fit and he had a place. All he coulda used was the ability to go back to tier 1 at will, just return to Old Myers and let us keep that and I'd be happy over a Dashslop Michael Myers.
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I think that it is also worth mentioning that Hex Perks no longer indicate in their description that the perk is active only as long as the totem is lit. New players no longer have any way of knowing they can deactivate Hex perks anymore unless via first-hand experimentation.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067072#Comment_4067072
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067112#Comment_4067112
Since both of you mentioned that there is nothing for Killer to do - this is completely intentional. And this is actually BHVR listening. During events where Killers had other objectives, people complained that Killers dont have the time to do those. So now BHVR does not offer different objectives for Killers anymore.
Obviously this makes events more boring for Killers, but in the end, this is what people asked for.
This critique only applies to iterations of the Void from several years past - every other major Event in the game has plenty of things for Killers to do. This past iteration of The Void made it easier than ever for Killers to enter the Void quickly w/ a smaller Void map and get very big rewards that made it worth it (Haunts that Down Survivors)
Every other event has things for Killers to play with that doesn't make them have to go out of their way - Invitations with on-demand abilities, the Party Tricks, Snowskulls that can freeze pallets, Snowmen…
Even past iterations of this VERY event - the Blood Moon - allowed Killers to utilize massive Blood Zones for massive Lunge distances, regardless of whichever team created the Blood Zone they had a new way to engage with the game.
As Killer, this Event doesn't even feel like an Event. It's literally just normal Killer gameplay with extra steps. It's boring and unenticing. The only reason why anyone would be incentivized to play it is for Bloodpoints.
I don't think it's fair to just say "It's boring and it should be boring" because every other Event in the game has proven that they can make fun things for the Killer to do - even if it's meta to not engage with the mechanics at least they have fun things to do. It's as if we said "One-Fifth of the game's players will have absolutely nothing new or of interest to do, the rest of you go have fun tho!"
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I think my biggest disappointment is to discover that there is nothing for Killers to do in this event except guard even MORE objectives than usual.
I think it's great that more Powers and Perks work with Generators, but there is nothing fun or interesting for Killers to do, just harder gameplay conditions. Which, on its own, is not a problem! I love that we have to challenge ourselves in new ways.
It is great that as a Survivor, I get new gameplay. But where is that aspect for Killers? This feels like a very Survivor-centric event and I don't feel any incentive to play Killer as there aren't interesting things for me to try or do.
There are no new "toys" for Killers to actively engage or play with, is the way it feels when I look at what this event offers for me when I queue for Killer.
Everything that this event offers for Killers is passive: Which is, mainly, Blood Cans make Survivors almost unnoticeably easier to track. There is nothing that the Killer has to actively engage with that meaningfully changes gameplay in an interesting way - the Blood Pumps really only serve as additional patrol points/patrol locations on top of Generators. Patrolling is something that we already do as Killer, and the idea of more points to patrol isn't an interesting change in gameplay for me. I do think that it is interesting that patrolling Blood Generators offers a slightly different meta, since the Cans deplete while Survivors run, but it still feels like a rather passive side effect of gameplay that we don't really feel or notice as Killer.
(I want to reiterate, having more patrol points isn't a problem, but rather the fact that there is nothing new gameplay-wise for Killers to actively engage with)
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Ignore this post, I was editing a post and somehow an empty post got sent -
Additionally, perks that describe a keybind MUST have the keybind be more visually distinct, because putting a random letter in a totally different font in the middle of a perk description actually makes the perk MUCH harder to read and understand, and it's very easy to glaze over the keybind in this formatting.
Use an icon, encapsulate the keybind in a key-shaped image, put it in a different color (like the old Yellow) to highlight that it's an actionable command that the Player can input and not simply perk functionality or a typo.
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I also strongly feel that placing the Extra Info windows on Killer Powers would be an excellent idea.
For example, The Twins inflict Killer Instinct, Broken, Oblivious, and Incapacitated. For new players, it would be useful to understand what these effects mean, as well!
Ever since the Eruption rework, Incapacitated does not appear anywhere in perks - therefore, this status effect has no definition anywhere!
Additionally, the Deafened Status Effect is not defined anywhere, either, as Add-Ons also do not have the Extra Info tab.
The "Endurance" status effect still does NOT define to players that it cannot be used while Deep Wounded. Its current wording gives the implication that it can be infinitely used Deep Wound would be re-applied, which is not correct.
Also, +1 to everyone saying that the intro Flavor Text makes the game feel more lifeless.
The Flavor Text would not have been visual overload if it simply had consistent formatting along with the quote perks - italicized and in a different color - instead of everything up until the Alien chapter being written in white plaintext as if it was part of the perk functionality.That's to say, bring back the intro flavor text and format the flavor text like this:
Not like this, which was how you used to do it:
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In a continued effort to clarify game language, the term "Conspicuous Action" is an ambiguous nothing-burger of a term for ANYBODY reading it, without doing more research or first-hand experimentation.
Even after almost 10 years and 6,500 hours of playing and actively following updates, I often forget what it means! What the heck is a "Conspicuous Action" in game language? Does touching an Exit Gate count? What about Killer Objects? The term is never defined anywhere and it means nothing to anyone without external research.
I strongly believe that "Conspicuous Action" should be defined in-game somewhere, and in perk descriptions would be an excellent place to do so.
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I think the gameplay on this map is generally pretty unique and fun - I love the sensation of fleeing thru the streets, flailing pallets and ducking in and out of alleys. Many of the strengths on this map are pre-dropping pallets that are very weak on their own to force Killers to take longer paths, resulting in long, winding chases through the streets, and that feels pretty cool!
The oft-cited weak pallets are not a problem, in my opinion, as they work incredibly well when pre-dropped and not actually used in an attempt to loop and stun. It is part of what creates the immersive high-speed chases that give this map a unique standout gameplay feel, and I would love to see this map maintain that unique identity moving forward with any chases!
However, playing as Killer, there are lots of issues that I've identified. Here are my thoughts:
- There are very few line of sight blockers in this map, and not enough "holes" to duck in and out of buildings on all sides. This fact feels counter-intuitive, because it feels like there should be plenty - there are tons of buildings! However, it's quite the opposite. The long, endless streets gives Survivors perfect line of sight of a Killer approaching. The angular directions and static layout of the map makes it very easy to predict what direction the Killer is going to approach from, especially in the High Streets and Club districts, as the buildings are long and do not have "swiss cheese" holes that allow the Killer to change up their approach. They often must resort to approaching from a single direction down a street. This makes pre-running on Trickster's Delusion heavily problematic for Killers, because it is VERY easy to spot a Killer approaching from very far away.
- Sometimes, as I showed in a post above, this map can spawn literal infinites that are exacerbated by the fact that the buildings have glass windows, denying mindgames and giving Survivors perfect information on how to react to a Killer's movements. As Killer, often all you can do is hopelessly stare at Survivors from the exact other side of the glass window you're on. It feels like a Haddonfield fence all over again.
- The edges of the map are pre-running hell for Killer, and trying to defend Generators that spawn in any corner of the map is genuinely impossible. Too many Gens spawn in the Marketplace/Shack area, which makes it a very easy choice to defend as Killer. Attempting to defend the lone, isolated Generators in the corners of the map where it's incredibly easy for Survivors to predict or even see what direction you're approaching from feels bad and futile, and many Killer players resort to trying to defend these Generators. Inversely, if the Marketplace Generators are completed first, the gen spread is so wide that the game can feel instantly lost.
- Defending the Exit Gates is WAY TOO EASY. You can stand in the center of the convenience store or in the intersection of the 2 main streets on the map and clearly see both Exit Gates being worked on. There MUST be more line-of-sight blockers on these gates, it is genuinely impossible to get on a Gate without being spotted if you're the last remaining. (Especially if you play as one of the many-increasing numbers of 3rd-Person Killers like Krasue or Henry, whose high camera angles allow us to peer over obstacles that Killers are normally not meant to see over!
Solutions:- Create more line of sight blockers in the middle of streets to hide a Killer's approach, and to obscure Exit Gates from guarding.
- Create more holes on more sides of buildings. This would reduce the strength of "God Pallets" and enable Killers to change their approach unpredictably, and circumvent some Windows that are too strong.
- Cover up the transparent Windows of NOT ALL BUILDINGS but buildings that spawn with strong Windows. This will reduce the strength of the stronger Windows while still allowing for interesting pallet-play elsewhere where Windows do not spawn.
- More variety, unpredictability, and varied distribution in Generator density would significantly alter the patrol behavior of players and could make defending Generators much more reasonable for Killer. The balance of Generators leaning heavily towards the Marketplace is a huge problem, as 2 very close Generators are almost always guaranteed to spawn in that corner, and it's a wide open marketplace that makes it easy for Survivors to identify when they must pre-run.
There is a lot of discussion regarding the strength of "God Pallets" on this map and whether that's okay. Personally, I think a "God Pallet" or two are okay, especially considering that this is a pallet-dense map. Pallet-dense maps tend to have slow early games, but absolutely devastating late games if the Killer successfully can clear out the safer pallets on the map early on.
The layout of this map with the wide open streets and straightaways makes it possible that Survivors can spot or sus out that a Killer is coming from miles away and it frequently allows Survivors to start prerunning before you even know that they see you. I frequently have Survivors pre-running the entire length and a half of the map before I can even catch up to them, because it's so easy to tell when and where the Killer is approaching from. I think this pre-running issue is exacerbating many of the smaller imperfections with the map. Because the map has such long straightaways, cutting a Survivor off is often not even an option. You'll often have to match the Survivor's movements and follow them down the entire length of a building.
After exclusively playing on this map for a week, I don't feel the amount of pallets is an issue, since there are only like 2 or 3 windows on the entirety of the map. Knock out some of the pallets, and it should all be downhill from there - especially since almost every pallet on this map is actually quite weak!
The real issue that I believe needs addressed is the strength of the loops around Windows that spawn, adjust the open sightlines down the streets, and add more holes around the buildings so that Killers have more options to cut off pre-running Survivors.
Fix these Window loops, and the pallets won't even feel like a problem anymore once a few of the stronger ones get knocked out of the way!
I hope to see some changes come to this map that make traversing it much easier, Killer approach more unpredictable, gen defense more reasonable, all without sacrificing the integrity of the unique gameplay that the map has created for itself within the DBD universe!
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There is an actual infinite in this location (that is highly effective against slower movement-speed Killers) if Survivors walk-tech to prevent chase from starting as Killers vault.
Additionally, the glass windows gives Survivors perfect information on how to react to the Killer's movements and extend the duration that they can infinitely run this infinite.
https://youtu.be/X9qHLKBcID0 -
@100PercentBPMain said:
@NotJared is a pretty steady workhorse who you can count on to gather PTB feedback; I never see this guy post anything but PTB feedback, but when you see him he's working hard
i love debby daylight:)
(when you don't see me here, i'm busy reporting dozens of bugs on the BetaHub!)
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@random1543 said:
Survivors cant abuse it unless you are just slugging them and allow them to get picked up to try to force them to stay in the match.
If they are genuinely trying to go next you should just kill them asap and if they do it often they will be hit with deranking then matchmaking penalties because of the go next prevention. When you slug them to force them into the match it avoids that penalty system and gives them a free out because you wont hook them.My point is not to come on here and vent, my point is not to come on the forums and say "Survivor mains stinky boohoo" - that is not what I'm getting at at all, and I think many are completely missing the point of what I'm saying.
My point is to point that there is a major exploitation nestled within the DC, Abandon, and Anti-Go-Next system that allows the Survivor role to grief the game with no consequences.
I am trying to say that what random1543 said should happen, is what should be happening - DC penalties should be applied to scenarios like this - but it's not.
random said they've tested the system, but so have I, and it simply does not work. It is so incredibly EASY to circumvent the entire go-next system by pretending to chase poorly, vaulting poorly, or throwing bad pallets, and still letting yourself get downed.
It simply does not work. I don't know if it's even turned on, to be honest. I've tried to trigger it out of curiosity and it literally does nothing. I get to kill myself on purpose and the game does not care.
The new DC penalties only take into account your last 20 games. Most players will eat just one DC penalty and keep that into their 20-game rotation to keep it at a 1-minute minimum because it's so easy to erase these penalties if you only do it once a day. But, in the Killer role, if you're playing even 5 matches a day, you are likely to see at least one DC within all of these matches, because that's 20 chances for your 4 opponents to have a "Free DC" stocked up within their 20-day limit.
The chances that within any individual match, the Survivors still have the "free 1 minute DC" in stock is still pretty high, too. A one-minute, often even 5-minute DC is not a deterrent for players who are determined to grief and DC, because that's almost no time at all. That's a chance for a bathroom break.
I don't want to play like this, I'm not trying to "punish" anyone as people have accused. I'm attempting to ignore the griefers to deny rewarding this behavior.
I attempt to ignore griefers because getting them out of the game rewards the griefing - I'm just trying to play with the other players who are actually trying to play the game. The griefers will insert themselves into my chases, though, and force me to down them. So if I kill them, they get to go next (since the anti go-next system does not work), and they skip the griefing matchmaking penalty. If I try to ignore them, they will force me to slug them, and they get to leave thanks to the abandon scenario, and they get to skip the DC matchmaking penalty.
No matter what happens, the end result is the Survivor role is allowed to grief the game and then leave with no consequences at an insanely high and forgiving rate. In any scenario they are able to completely grief the game for everyone AND skip the DC penalty in the process, then go off and do it again in their very next match, and this needs addressing.
The Anti-Go-Next feature needs to be more robust than what was originally put out, as the on-release version system was definitely way too sensitive. But no/weak Anti-Go-Next is making the game impossible to play as Killer.
@Crowman said:
The abandon system is fundamentally flawed. The idea of giving players the options to freely quit out of a game that is being extended by the opposing team sounds good in theory, but the implementation is so unfairly balanced.
Like why does the system even activate immediately upon the last survivor remaining going down. Frankly it wouldn't even be needed if BHVR didn't backtrack of having the finisher mori auto activate.
Then killers have to wait 10 full minutes of no gens being done to abandon even though bleeding out is a 4 minute timer.
Then they added the whole "if you get slugged 3 times you can leave" which negatively affects killers who have to slug as part of their power like Twins.
I also find myself being affected by this abandon scenario in instances where gameplay is simply normal. Especially by aggressive teams who are intentionally downing themselves for aggressive rescue plays, or when I am playing a Killer where it can be difficult to get a quick pickup like Knight or Twins.
@Rokku_Rorru said:
It's not really abuse if you aren't hooking them though is it? Just hook them, and move on OP, slugging them just because they won't play is just as unhealthy for the game so you can't blame them for using the option.
I understand where you are coming from for the record, but fighting fire with fire is hardly a solution at all. People just really dislike some killers and that's on behaviour to fix and make a game everyone enjoys.
Players punishing each other is never the solution.Again, I'm not attempting to "punish" players, I'm trying to ignore them.
The solution isn't on the designers to create a Killer that everyone enjoys and anyone that doesn't fit the category is allowed to disconnect for free because that task is literally impossible with a character roster this large. (And if you try to replicate the lightning in a bottle success, you end up in the so-dubbed "Dashslop" era where everyone plays the same)
I often like to say that DBD killers are like Pokemon - every single Killer, and literally every, is both someone's favorite, and also someone's least favorite.
Even the Killer that one might say everyone loves or hates - yes even that one - someone out there has the opposite opinion. And nobody is right or wrong for their own opinion!
No matter what the Killer is, someone will love them, and someone else will hate them. Everyone has different preferences for gameplay and playstyles, and every Killer fits a different niche in that. Every Killer is hated by any person, which is all the more reason to put a curb to the DC/Go-Next/Abandon system exploitations that allows the Survivor role to completely grief against any Killer that they personally dislike, with no consequences, over and over again.