Pikaso
Pikaso
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077346#Comment_4077346
If it was truly universal then it would be a problem across all killers and mmr groups, and it's just not.
I believe players not getting matched with others of approximately equal skill is one of the root causes of a lot of frustration in this game.
This is just a rough idea, but if I was in charge, the first thing I'd do is rework mmr, incorporating the Emblem system into it to at the very least have a better approximation of a player's skill so that matchmaking works better. I'd make players' mmr affected by the number of emblem points they get in a game divided by the total emblem points they could have theoretically gotten from that game; 1 point per emblem rank, so 16 points total potentially per game.
Now, for a player's first game, let's say a player gets x/16 points (which will always be a fraction less than 1) and we multiply it with some non-zero starting number A(0) that every player starts at, giving us a new number, A(1). Next game: player gets y/16 points, and we multiply it by A(1) to get A(2), and so on.
Now, if we iterate across many games, and divide a player's A(n) value by the number of games played, you get a measure of how quickly a player's A(0) decayed per game. This is the key statistic that I believe reflects a player's skill the best in Dead by Daylight.
Players who consistently get high Emblem scores will end up having an A(n) that, when compared to A(0), show a slower rate of decay from A(0) per trial, and consequently be considered tougher opponents and better teammates, which is why it's so important that the Emblem system provides relevant data. Bad inputs, useless outputs.
(The only problem with a system like this is that a player's A(n) can only go down. Due to this inconvenience I'd recommend a partial reset every few months. For example, every 3 months, the last 1.5 months of data are thrown out and your A(n) is recalculated using the data it has until you play more games.)
For survivors, Emblems would need to be tweaked to have a lower emphasis on escaping, and a higher emphasis on getting credit for performing actions widely considered skillful (e.g. pallet saves, long chases, etc.). The Unbroken Emblem would need the biggest overhaul.
Killers would probably need changes to their emblems as well but not nearly to the extent of survivors.
After we see how people do when they're being better matched by skill, then we can start to talk base kit stuff.
My idea for MMR is simple: split it into 3 tiers based on a Killer Tier List. Low MMR would have killers from F/D to B+, Mid MMR from B+ to A+, and High MMR from A+ to S. Survivors would choose the level they want to play on. For SWF, the group has to agree and pick one level together before queuing.
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077082#Comment_4077082
You want to help killers that the devs have left behind, and I respect that. I want that as well. The problem is that the ideas you're proposing would just result in more games where the first survivor downed disconnects, ruining the game for everyone else, even if it's a killer with a low kill rate.
You're also focusing very heavily on mid-to-high MMR play. Sadako, for example, destroys teams at low-to-mid MMR, but falls off hard after survivors get a little better against her. A base kit change like what you suggest would make her be more overbearing against new or low MMR players for no reason. The solution would be to balance her kit better, but the only thing 2 or 3 reworks in close succession achieved was making everyone confused about what her tapes even do, which lingers to this day.
I understand your concern about Low MMR, but we can't keep balancing the game around players who refuse to learn the mechanics. Someone has to go down first—that is the fundamental rule of the game. If it didn't work that way, we wouldn't be playing a horror game; we'd be playing tag.Survivors have an advantage from the very second the match starts. They spawn near their objectives and can start progressing immediately. The Killer has to find, chase, and outplay someone just to start their pressure. For many weaker killers, being showered with pallets early on makes this nearly impossible. Hooklust isn't about crushing new players; it’s about giving the Killer a 'fair' and 'equal' footing. If a Survivor gets downed and DCs, that’s a 'skill issue' and a toxic attitude, not a flaw in the mechanic. They have an entire map of resources—if they fail to use them, they shouldn't punish the Killer’s momentum.Regarding your point about Sadako's multiple reworks: BHVR did 2 or 3 reworks in a short time precisely because they don't have a sensible, core approach to balance. They are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. My question is: What would you change then?If we had solid base-kit mechanics like Hooklust and Free Time, we wouldn't need to constantly 'fix' every killer individually. These changes address the universal problems of the game. Instead of sticking to a 'messy and chaotic' system that makes people quit, we should implement a vision that actually respects the Killer's role as a powerful threat, while giving Survivors a fair way to reset.
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@Crowman said:
This gives me the vibes that you took the output of an LLM like ChatGPT and just posted it here.
I'm using AI to help me structure my ideas and translate them into English."
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@AGM said:
I'm sorry, I get the intent behind it, but this is poorly thought through. Killers already have a mechanic to help them if chases are taking a while: Bloodlust. If they need more help than that they need to learn the game better or accept their defeat without crashing out.
The killer roster is too diverse for this kind of change. Some killers can get to a survivor within 10 seconds of the match starting. Why do they need the help?
Flashlight and pallet saves can be some of the most exciting situations in entire trials. They also allow for more skill expression on both sides. Removing core mechanics because some people are afraid of any kind of failure is ridiculous.
Also, can we take a step back to focus on the fact that you're trying to find a way to prevent killers from dcing? That's not even on anyone's radar as an issue, because if the killer quits, the game ends. Meanwhile you can't go more than ~5 or so games without at least one survivor immediately giving up on a good day.
Your suggestions regarding tunneling don't make a lot of sense either because they take away a lot of player agency and the memorable situations that result. I want to be able to make decisions that have an impact on the trial, and what I do as a survivor whether it's after unhooking someone or being unhooked, or what I do as a killer when someone unhooks near me, are often some of the most important, match-defining decisions I can make.
I don't want the devs, as a killer or survivor, to "solve" tunneling by just making it impossible. I want them to implement something messy and chaotic, but mostly fair for everyone, where choices still matter.
You mention Bloodlust, but in theory, it’s just a bandage for finishing a chase. The 'penalty' for using it is losing it the moment you get a hit, get stunned, use your power, or kick a pallet. This completely defeats the purpose of the mechanic if you're trying to actually maintain pressure.The killer roster is huge—some are strong, some are weak. If a Nurse downs and hooks someone in 30 seconds, Hooklust won't change that. But for killers like Sadako or Bubba, who can’t even get close because they are showered with pallets from the start, this mechanic is vital. It’s about a fair and secure start for the Killer.When you play Killer, you're supposed to be a powerful monster with supernatural abilities. Instead, you're often bullied and humiliated by 'Survivors' who should be trying to survive, not mentally break their opponent. It's like kicking a guy with a knife in the balls and laughing at him—it doesn't fit the theme of the game.The current anti-tunnel system is toxic because Survivors weaponize it. They use their 'fat' collision and Endurance to bodyblock and protect others instead of actually escaping. Everyone complains about Endgame situations where you can't counter Borrowed Time at the gates, while even the Anti-Facecamp system (the only decent system BHVR made) turns off.I’ll say it again: Hooklust is about a safe first hook. In a bad situation where you have 2 gens left and you're finally getting your first down, having a survivor attack you and deny that hook is a total disaster. Hooklust guarantees that your match actually starts