AGM
AGM
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075941#Comment_4075941
Look out everyone, I can see my teammates perks in solo queue. Those exit gates are practically opening themselves!
I'm sorry, I think you have that confused with pre-nerf Fast Track, where you could do absolutely nothing for free permanent gen progress. But don't worry, I know this game can be confusing.
Snark aside, if you don't care about the feature that's fine, but it's been one of the most requested solo queue features ever. You can't tell me that the devs don't care about survivors (as others claimed) when they bring a feature like that to the game just because they nerfed a clearly busted perk in a reasonable amount of time.
People have been complaining for ages that BHVR moves at a glacial pace when it comes to game balance, and while I understand concerns about knee-jerk balance, there are some cases where it's obvious when something is problematic enough not to require the standard 4 year waiting period.
I honestly wonder what people would be saying if original Mettle of Man was released today…
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076305#Comment_4076305
What's the reasoning for Deadline, may I ask? I was under the impression the only meaningful synergy people ran that perk with is Autodidact, and that shouldn't be affected by Diminishing Returns.
I'd also personally contest Champion of Light, that perk is damn good on its own and definitely isn't severely harmed by the DR system.
Some good picks in there to look at for future adjustments though, for sure.
Deadline's increased skill check chance is diminished by One-Two-Three-Four!'s buff if you run them together, and if you had to pick one to run, One-Two-Three-Four! is basically a direct upgrade over Deadline. I'd say Deadline needs a full rework but that's just me.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075555#Comment_4075555
I hear you on that and understand where concerns like that can come from. While I can't promise you specific timelines, I can promise that I'm here to make sure the team gets a clear idea of what folks like you are feeling. For that, I'd love to dig into the specifics with you: When you say that balance is broken right now, is there something (or somethings) specific that's at the core of this for you?
I understand folks' bigger-picture concerns and worries about diminishing returns impacting build crafting, but if there are specific combos causing you friction or perks you feel have been especially impacted, I'd love to get your POV!
Perks I've found to be severely affected by diminishing returns when used with other perks or killer powers that apply the same modifier:
Survivor:
- Better Than New
- Blood Pact
- Boon: Dark Theory
- Champion of Light
- Deadline
- Desperate Measures
- Empathic Connection
- Flow State
- Leader
- Teamwork: Power of Two
Killer:
- Dying Light
- Dark Arrogance
- Fire Up
- Forever Entwined
- Game Afoot
- Help Wanted
- Hex: Nothing but Misery
- Hex: Wretched Fate
- Knock Out
- Leverage
- Overcharge
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain
- Sloppy Butcher
- Thanatophobia
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076190#Comment_4076190
Well, that's my point - the problem isn't any of those things, at least not according to BHVR's wording in the screenshot you shared.
What they're saying there is the problem, at least as I interpret it, is the combination of activating on any hook action and providing permanent objective progress.
Now, again, personally, I don't really agree that was a problem, but we're evaluating BHVR's position here and that's the part they're saying is an issue, not any of the examples you gave there.
That's why the other perks are relevant. They share the activation condition, but they don't share the effect, so evidently they're fine - or at least aren't being weighed in on yet. Similarly, other things provide permanent generator progress, but they have different activation conditions, so it can be inferred that BHVR have decided permanent progress needs a less passive activation condition.Whether you agree or disagree with it, I think it's always important to evaluate what is actually being said about any given change.
I think you're right: people need to do more listening and less speculating, because when it comes to perk balance, BHVR doesn't have a lot of incentive to lie about their reasons. It's a very low stakes situation despite how passionately people can feel.
In regards to the stated reasons for the change, even older devs realized how bad of a design that was when dealing with original Hex: Ruin. In spite of Ruin's ability to be cleansed, Killers were getting a great deal of passive slowdown without interacting with other players just for equipping the perk, which was bad game design, so they changed it, giving nearly the same justification as these devs did now for Fast Track.
On a separate note: now that there are at least 4 separate ways to reduce a generator's maximum charges, it'd be a nice quality of life base kit feature for killers to have some way to see if a generator has had its maximum charges reduced.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075975#Comment_4075975
I get your worry about coup because unless killer lunges super far and you arent sharp enough to see it nothing will tell you, but fire up? seriously that perk does very little unless its stacked with other chase perks and even then its not huge deal right now with dimishing return.
Fire up is strong on one gen left and at this point there isnt much time killer will use it and get value from it compare to brutal strenght or bamboozle.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075966#Comment_4075966
There are far more bigger double standarts but something that pernamently removes time needed for survivors to do gen and its automiticaly given to them when killer player "nice" or how he should is more worse then deadlock or noed at this point.
For comparison we talk about effects like of the first ruin where even when you hit good skillchect you get 5% regression and when you hit great you got 0% of gen progress but even then this broken effect had two counters firts was gen taping and second was ability to remove the totem but fast track you cant counter it much only way is hardcore tunneling which is nowdays way harder then before do to many existing perks for antitunnel protection and ds being free so almost every survivor runs some perk to counter tunneling nowdays and as killer you have no other way to counter it no counter build in the perk like ruin has or noed have (even shows you totem aura nowdays up to 24 meters so unless killer hooks near that totem its very possible to break it and counter it). Thats fast track problem unless you play as turnament hungry competive jack and bite through untitunnel protection you have no other counter to it, you play normaly you are against yourself and I had last weeks many teams where fast track with BNP was used and it was very noticiable especialy on few gens left.
I dont denny deadlock isnt well desinged compare to grim or deadmans switch which reward killer for doinmg objective, but deadlocks effects arent so destructive for survivor side compare to 4 survviors running fast track, sometimes deadlock is even against killer because he doesnt effect when gen gets done that much, compare to old eruption if you remember.
I suspect that the only people still following this thread are irrationally angry at the Fast Track nerf and are downvoting completely rational takes. If there's no good faith discussion to be had then why is this thread even open?
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@TamaraLatte said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075974#Comment_4075974
How do we counter fire up or coup?
Fire Up doesn't need any extra counterplay due to the opportunity cost of bringing the perk. It was pretty bad on its own pre 9.6.0 but now it's even worse because of diminishing returns if you try to stack it with something else.
If a killer has Coup stacks, they can't lunge without wasting a stack. Force them to lunge as best you can to waste their stacks.
This ain't rocket science. You're obviously just being obtuse to try to fit your black and white thinking onto nuanced situations.
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@TamaraLatte said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075963#Comment_4075963
For me it's not what the perks do, but the double standard. Neither side should be punished for doing their objectives.
Of course you're allowed to feel what you feel, but there's so much nuance lost here. "Punishment" is very vague.
Imo, as long as a perk has realistic counterplay I'm personally okay with it activating upon the other side completing part of their objective.
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They nerf 1 clearly overtuned survivor perk and some people are hysterical, meanwhile survivors just got another brand new base kit feature to see your teammates perks and people are still complaining that the devs only listen to killers? This is absurd.
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Road Life needs a complete rework.
Deadline is now completely outclassed by One-Two-Three-Four! It could use a rework or a synergistic tertiary effect in the era of diminishing returns.
Cut Loose needs a longer effect timer and a much shorter cooldown.
Moment of Glory needs either a shorter timer or 1 fewer chest search needed to activate it.
Rapid Response could use a longer aura reading duration that starts after a short delay upon becoming exhausted, at minimum.
Rookie Spirit: First off it should just start active. But I'd love to see it given some kind of inverse Oppression ability added on top, where you gain tokens for stopping a generator from regressing, which can then be used to stop generator(s) from regressing at a distance (rough concept).
Better Than New needs GIGA numbers buffs in the era of diminishing returns.
Visionary needs a rework, plain and simple, as Déjà Vu outclasses it in every way.
Just some thoughts.
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This thread is ridiculous.
PERMANENT gen progress is extremely strong and shouldn't just be given out like candy on Halloween.
This perk's design is so much healthier this way, and actually addresses the ridiculous amount of gen rushing that this perk had enabled.
It might not be meta anymore but it's still a good perk in its 9.6.0 form. It even has new synergy with other perks that activate upon unhooking someone.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074856#Comment_4074856
trying to win using an available, legitimate, strategy is not 'crappy behaviour'
That's like saying "Something being legal means it can't ever be morally wrong." Context and intent matter.
There are a lot of times when slugging is the correct play, and as long as it isn't being done maliciously I don't really care. But it definitely can be used maliciously, and the game rules allowing it doesn't mean you're immune to criticism for using that strategy in a manner that wastes everyone's time/makes people miserable/bullies newer players into quitting.
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@BongoBoys said:
I think what solo queue survivors need is basekit Kindred without the Killer aura I think it'll be a lot better to help solo q teams to coordinate saves better. I don't think that's a game breaking request
I really wanted this for a while, but now that your fellow survivors can tell if the killer is camping based on the anti-camp bar I feel like a slightly more imperfect means of coordination would be more appropriate.
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You queued up for the game. Play it out unless you NEED to leave. And if you lose, lose with some grace; you don't automatically become a failure of a human because you lost at a game.
Instead of going to the forums with a nonexistent problem, learn from your experiences. The things that happen in any video game don't matter to your life, so why are you letting it get you? Be nicer to yourself in defeat.
I can tell you 100% that the reaction you are having is what they were trying to achieve. By not being able to control your emotions you gave them what they wanted. I don't condone the way those survivors acted in any way, but on the internet, a little emotional resilience goes a long way.
(And to anyone else reading this in a similar emotional state, please don't take it out on the player(s) in your next game. They had nothing to do with it and don't deserve to feel like crap either.)
This game definitely isn't for everyone. If it's negatively impacting your mental health, don't be afraid of moving on to another game.
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For both old and new players, I think most all exhaustion perks should be 50% haste (unless they have some gimmick) so that new players can get a feel for how much distance they can make. This also has the benefit of making skill expression associated with exhaustion perks semi-transferable.
As for how long: imo, the harder it is to activate, the longer the haste could be, but I would limit any exhaustion perk that is at 50% haste to a 3-5 second window, and am open to having some exhaustion perks' durations ending with a decimal place, like 3.5s duration.
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@FoxGhoul said:
Since the removal of the anti vault, kaneki needs some sort of compromise compromise fcompfor vaulting. Currently kaneki gets punished for vaulting with their power because the survivor can just vault back over wasting the use fo the power and forcing kaneki to break the pallet anyways wasting more time. A killer SHOULDNT be punished for using their power. My proposed solution to this would be to give kaneki kaneki more collision after power vaulting so that he can basically body block the pallet. This wild solve the issue of keeping the auto hit out of the game but at the same time gives kaneki a way to counter the vault back, because the vault back mechanic is just stupid and shouldn't be in the game since the auto hit was removed. It's fine to have to visit back if there is if there an auto hit, but without the auto hit there is no reason to keep the vault back.
You're not going to find a lot of sympathy here, no offense. Ghoul's vault was one of the parts of his kit that a lot of people took issue with, and although I dislike the way in which they've made the interaction for survivors into a basic knowledge check, they have actually fixed most of my issues that I had with Ghoul's vault, and I think he's strong enough in other ways that he doesn't need compensation.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062841#Comment_4062841
Yeah, I get that you have four perk slots, but that’s the point. The base animations aren’t a ‘perk choice” they’re literally the killer’s foundation. Fire Up, SBFL, and Forever Entwined all require you to give up slots to gain efficiency, whereas just buffing base animation speeds would ruin perk balance and make perks that exist to enhance these actions pointless. Basically, if base speeds got a universal buff, you’d be nerfing the point of perks that are already there to create trade offs and killer diversity. It’s not about ‘could you run them together,’ it’s about keeping the choice meaningful.
We don’t need unnecessary changes or buffs.
But the choice isn't meaningful now. Perks that change animation speeds only change them by hundredths of seconds, except for STBFL which was gutted for any killer with a special attack (even some with non-damaging special attacks).
I could be wrong, but I don't think they've made any really impactful base kit buffs to killers across the board since 6.1.0. Since then, survivors got a bunch of base kit tools which have reduced camping, tunneling, and increased survivors' overall efficiency by decreasing the information gap between SWF and solo players, which are all great things.
I guess I'd just like more people to realize that most killers that rely heavily on basic-breaks and basic attacks are having a rough time and could use the help. Plus, if animations related to hooking are made shorter, you make hooking a more attractive option (as opposed to slugging).
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@Callahan9116 said:
Why? There are perks that do that and no one uses them
Because people don't have room to use niche perks when they only have 4 perk slots. The goal is to give killers some slight base kit improvements that in general help the killers who need it most in exchange for the base kit features that survivors have been granted as part of the anti-camp and anti-tunnel systems.
@SkeletalElite said:
I'm only okay with decreasing pick up times if flashlight blind times are also shortened to compensate so that flashlight saves don't become more difficult. Flashlights don't need to be nerfed, they're almost the weakest item (only better than fog vials) with champion of light carrying the entire item on its back in terms of viability.
You're right. Flashlights would need some consideration if pick up times were increased. Currently, flashlights take 1 second to blind, and the killer's pickup animation is 3 seconds (2.75s with a 0.25s flashlight save window before the end).
They could make the pickup animation 10% shorter to 2.7s, and also expand the flashlight save window to 0.3s; meanwhile, they could also decrease the amount of time it takes to blind from 1s to 0.9s, and increase the range of flashlights from 10m to 11m.
If you want to get experimental, I'd even consider a tiny 3% haste base kit Background Player on all flashlights.
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
Why should they add that when you have perks like Fire Up, Save The Best for Last, and Forever Entwined, seems completely unnecessary to me.
Because you can only have 4 perk slots. Most of those aren't worth running on most killers. Besides, why couldn't you run the perks with faster base animations anyway?
@sizzlingmario4 said:
I don't think the recent anti-camp/anti-tunnel changes really warrant any compensation on the killer side tbh. Adding the anti-camp bar to the HUD was really only a solo queue improvement, SWFs already had that information before the update. As for the 5 seconds extra on unhook protections, while it has been very effective for me as a survivor against being tunneled, I don't feel like it's really made a huge difference against killers who aren't playing that way, my own killer games included since I don't tunnel in most cases, overall it feels the same in the vast majority of cases/it hasn't been particularly intrusive on normal killer play.
Even then, I also don't feel like the speed of killer actions needs a buff anyway, I've always felt like they were in a good spot since 6.1.0 and nothing feels too slow imo
Closing the gap between SWF and solo means, on average, more difficult games for killers. I think that justifies a buff for killers.
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I could always be wrong but I think it's a coincidence or bias on your end. I've been using FTTE for a good while and the Obsession ends up whoever the RNG tells it to be.
In an "ideal" scenario, the person with the most hook stages becomes the Obsession 11% of the time. That's not all that low of a chance.
If they ever did nerf it though, limiting the Obsession candidates to people with fewer hook stages is a cool idea.
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Not every character they release is going to be a winner to everyone. If you like him, great! If you don't, nothing BHVR does will change anything because this isn't a game play problem, it's a story and presentation one. Peoples' opinions on him have already crystallized, and rewriting his lore is an undertaking with very little payoff that will probably confuse people more than move the needle on popularity.
I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about him makes me want to turn around and walk the other way.
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@Chrarcq said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061258#Comment_4061258
They've mostly been ostriches when it comes to Kaneki thus far so don't get your hopes up.
"The data on Ghoul is fine therefore the Ghoul is fine" attitude from BHVR is incredibly frustrating. Perhaps even more so than Ghoul himself.
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Yeah I'd really rather they just make it a loosely balanced event every few months as they've been doing.
I'm starting to see calls for BHVR to take balance in 2v8 more seriously, which would only increase as novelty wears off, but 2v8 is kinda the party mode, and I like it that way.
I'd just want some more killers added and some extremes toned down, like sprint on command and Oni in general. Some buffs for Chucky, Pyramid Head, and (possibly?) Ghost Face would be appreciated as well.
Just as long as it's in the spirit of fun for both sides.
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He's getting a small nerf in the next big patch but imo he's strong but manageable.
His counterplay is very clear: if you have distance, lose LoS and run somewhere unexpected (for example, leave the tile); if not then trying to dodge is your last resort, which you actually can do to a degree because the killer's red stain gives survivors some info about where the killer is attacking, so do not loop predictably. For the Undergate Attack you both do a little mind game dance. And you use the clocks as survivor to give you a secondary objective that wastes some time but quickly drains the killer's power.
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You're talking about nerfing killers when the game mode is heavily survivor sided?
I think you're forgetting that a huge chunk of players want this mode to be goofy semi-unbalanced fun party time.
There are some extremes I'd tone down, like sprint on command and Oni's effectiveness, but that's about it. Maybe buff some weaker killers and underused classes too.
So much of what you're suggesting already exists in 1v4, and the people who really like 2v8 like that it's different.
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People don't realize just how many ways there are to find survivors in 2v8 especially.
One particular case that I take advantage of is getting auras on survivors that my partner killer starts chase with, because then I can zoom right up while they're paying more attention to the other killer.
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@Mandy said:
what would you suggest? If kill rates and dc rates are average - where do you suggest we look data wise to see where there's a problem? We do know a few bugs with the character also contribute to a few issues, such as the animation problem.
You could send out a survey asking players what their issues with Ghoul are (if any) from a list of the most commonly expressed ones, and why.
The metrics being collected now might not tell the whole story, like when usage stats put a nerf target on an add-on but in reality that add-on gets used so much because most of that killer's add-ons are booty.
If the players at large don't have a problem with Ghoul, a player survey with publicly announced results would do some good towards getting people to move on from constantly asking for changes to him.
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@Mandy said:
Its a bit of a mix of things….one is that the killer is not overly strong data wise, so its identifying the areas that players have most concerns with (talking about playing against the killer), and making adjustments without weakening the killer overall - as he's not in a particular place where he needs a nerf. He's a little bit stronger at higher MMR but not much, very much middle of the pack (or close to it), so it's also about assessing priorities and bandwidth as to what needs to be adjusted and where.
Shouldn't those concerns be clear by now? People have made many, many posts that all share basically the same pain points.
The posts I see usually contain some mix of:
- The counterplay is unclear
- Getting locked in place on a successful leap feels awful
- Seemingly getting hit around corners feels awful
- His vault speed while enraged is so fast that it's frustrating
Do we really need to go out of our way and make a statistical anomaly just to get some attention from the devs?
Are you all collecting feedback on why Ghoul is so disliked?
I don't want him nerfed into the ground. I want him made fun for the other 80% of the lobby. I don't care if he's made stronger in other ways to compensate. Just because he's 'operating within normal parameters' doesn't mean there's nothing to look at here.
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I hope BHVR is listening.
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Personally I think he needs more help than that, but I don't necessarily think making him 4.6m/s is the answer.
- Hidey-Ho's cooldown is very long even by 1v4 standards. (Longer than Blight if he uses all his rush tokens.) I'd like to see it brought down to 10 seconds with a 2 second cooldown reduction on successful Slice n' Dice hits.
- His inability to turn more than 45 degrees in either direction after scampering during Slice n' Dice severely hinders his viability; any survivor who knows this essentially turns Chucky into a 4.4m/s m1 killer. I'd like to see this turn restriction relaxed to ~60 degrees but only for a small window after scampering.
- The duration of Slice n' Dice itself feels pretty short, especially if you try to chain scamper some downed pallets to break them. I'd like to see the duration increased by 0.2 seconds.
(Honestly I think some of these buffs could also be considered for 1v4, not just 2v8.)
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I definitely agree that they need to buff Pyramid Head in 2v8.
- Increasing the amount of trail that can remain active is a good start
- I really like the idea that successful PotD hits give back some charge to his power meter
- Personally I'd like them to consider adding Torment on PotD hits. It was too oppressive for 1v4, but could work for 2v8
- Bonus points if they let the other killer send tormented survivors to cages as a check to Torchbearer.
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@SkeletalElite said:
The actual attack cooldown can be shortened such that the the distance is the exact same. but just forcing the survivor to just sit there and do nothing for 2 seconds feels horrible. Its such a small change and has very little actual gameplay impact but would make the killer feel so much better to play against. It would also make weird hits feel much less bad if instead of being locked in place with an object between you and the killer and still getting hit instead you just get hit right as you are going around the corner with no lock in place.
I completely agree and have been saying this since his release. Heck, you don't even need to shorten Ghoul's animation because when it ends he'll be right on ya booty in a matter of seconds. There are quite a few things I'd like to see changed on Ghoul but imo this is one of the most egregious things about him that needs a change.
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As much as Dissolution could use this buff for most other killers, Ghoul takes advantage of this perk as it is now so well that buffing one of his best perks would make him even more obnoxious.
It's a bit like how Nurse limits what the devs can do with aura reading perks, and how Haywire had to be gutted on arrival due to Singularity.
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Personally, I believe base kit Nemesis is decently balanced. However, I also think Nemesis needs an add-on pass, as he only has about 4 useful ones. If they did redo some of his add-ons, I could see them making one that adds 1 more zombie to trials.
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@Junylar said:
Just as I predicted, they just assigned the more "inclusive" character as the winner. The vote has never been real after all.
I voted for old lady specifically because her face tells a story and she embodies the "survivor" aspect better.
Looking at the other girl made me think "This is just Kate with heterochromia..."
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I'm inclined to agree that Demo could use a tune up. His portal placement speed, his portal movement speed, and the length of undetectable after portaling could all be buffed pretty significantly.
And more creative and useful add-ons would be appreciated. Barb's Glasses is almost a necessity, like old Rat Liver…
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052024#Comment_4052024
guess Cheryl should have moved away from the hook. skill issue, clearly…
Ah, I see what you mean now. The Undergate Attack going through Endurance seems like unintended behavior; might want to send a bug report. Thank you for providing the clip, as I didn't even know that was possible.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051835#Comment_4051835
You mean the built-in anti-tunnel where he M2's you immediately off hook and bypasses BT to insta mori you? Very fair 10/10 certified not tunneled.
No. I'm talking about how it takes about 6 seconds for vines to come out when you try to use his M2 near hooked survivors. If the hooked and unhooking survivor can't move away from the hook within 6 seconds that's their mistake.
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From what I've experienced in my Henry matches, this killer takes a decent amount of skill. If you're spamming your power immediately off its cool down, survivors start getting into a rhythm where they know you have your shot ready and will path weirdly to dodge, especially when out of sight.
I also appreciate that Henry has an anti-tunnel and anti-camping mechanic built into his kit, where using his special attacks near a hooked survivor makes his attacks take much longer. It makes him one of the worst hook defenders in the game. More killers should have these kinds of safeguards built in to their powers.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016608#Comment_4016608
Again, wrong. So… Startruck lasts 30s with Vigil it's 10.5s, same with Friends till the end. Haunted ground lasts 60s with Vigil it's 21s, forced penance lasts 90s with vigil it's 30s. Just by one single perk every status effect is negated. Seems like balanced perk? Not to me. It's like if killer has perk that would make every heal 66 % slower, every repair 66 % slower, hinders, exposes etc. How fair would that be for a single perk slot?
If you're going to argue that a perk should be nerfed, at least take the time to learn how it actually works first.
DBD works based on charges/s. You recover from every status effect at 1 charge/s. Vigil increases this to 1.66 charges/s.
Sloppy Butcher lasts 90 charges, and at 1 charge/s, that's 90s. 90 charges divided by 1.66 charges/s is 54.2s.
Anything that normally lasts 60s lasts 36.1s with Vigil.
Anything that normally lasts 30s lasts 18.1s with Vigil.
It's not that hard.
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Seems like BHVR just kinda hates the Doomed Course characters. I suspect any Houndmaster changes or Taurie skins would cause DBD's code to collapse in on itself and form a black hole.
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@Garboface said:
As strong as she is, she still is unable to perform in a fashion that makes her a competitor. In the words of tru3ta1ent, she "cannot be four places at once ". Nor can any killer for that matter. If you're losing as survivor consistently, analyze that nugget of truth in regards to any killer.
Then ask yourself why some folks prefer bots.
Have you tried possibly forming your own opinions rather than parroting brain dead takes from content creators?
Also, tip for the future, you do yourself no favors by quoting his opinions. He's a… divisive person in the community due to what he complains about and how he complains about things. Very little substance to his stances once you think for a few seconds. If you like his content, by all means, enjoy. But that doesn't make him the arbiter of DbD balance, same as any content creator.
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He doesn't need a rework in any way.
Just because he doesn't dash doesn't mean his kit isn't chase focused.
The counterplay is already quite clear and requires some skill with both camera manipulation and realizing when he's trying to zone you into a hallucination.
The killer requires both micro and macro skill: hit shots (micro) and hallucination management (macro and micro).
Personally, I'm sick of movement speed abilities and I'm sick of pallet/window vaulting abilities.
Sorry, but this is neither the right character for this nor what many in the community would want in a killer rework or even a new killer.
EDIT: To clarify, the only killers that I believe need straight up reworks right now are Skull Merchant and Nurse. The other killers that are too weak or strong can probably be fine with some number tweaks. (Except for Trapper, no clue what to do with that poor guy.)
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The baffling thing is that they spent so much time reducing the number of pallets across many maps over the course of years to get them in a more balanced state, and decided to undo all that work in a single update.
They could have just implemented this on Haddonfield and Forgotten Ruins (maps that actually needed this), and then updated Garden of Joy to be less survivor sided, but nope!
Do they think 1v4 will be more fun if it has as many pallets as 2v8? God forbid survivors have to use their limited resources wisely or something.🙄
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When SWF exists, and players can just use comms to convey anything, this isn't a hot take, it's a braindead take.
Solo survivors still need, at bare minimum:
- A way to see their teammates' perks, either in lobby, during the game, or both
- A way to communicate intentions that doesn't involve voice chat
Bringing solo queue closer to SWF makes balancing the game easier overall, which it desperately needs due to BHVR's self inflicted wounds.
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I don't tunnel unless it's appropriate, but if that patch went live I would have just switched to the better killers and kept on playing how I wanted to. You think Nurse mains would have even noticed the changes? Ghouls can gladly eat those tunneling penalties and be just fine.
That patch was a giant middle finger to almost every killer outside the top 5. Did you just want to play against 5 killers for the rest of the game's lifespan?
I get that people are desperate for action to prevent tunneling, but that patch… was not the answer. Parts of it were good, like the unique hook bonuses for killers and the extended unhook protection for survivors. But the generator kick blocker and increase to survivor repair speeds were a convoluted, abusable mess.
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Krasue is still utterly ridiculous.
- Ricochet regurgitate shots should only deal half a leeching state
- Head form should be 115%
- Third person camera combined with the long range of Intestinal Whip puts survivors in impossible situations
I have no desire to play against this killer because of how helpless it feels.
I have no desire to play as this killer because of how easy she is, and I don't want to make survivors miserable.
Ghoul, the Walking Dead patch fiasco, and Krasue have made 2025 the most disappointing year of DbD so far for me. Only bright spot was Springtrap.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010773#Comment_4010773
I'd like to have actual balance discussions instead of this bullshit "the game will die" every single time.
Zero constructive feedback for how to actually improve on the problem, let alone fix it, while avoiding these self proclaimed "catastrophies".
We can't even have a meaningful discussion because of doom posts like this that just serve to derail useful conversation about it.
Cynical take incoming, but the way I see it, any discussions on balancing the game aren't making it to the ears of the decision makers, and BHVR barely if ever publicly comments about why X wouldn't work or why Y would be a bad idea probably because they're afraid of being exposed as uninformed about their game or out of touch with their players. (No, Dead by Daylight is not, in fact, like a game of hockey. If you know, you know.) So what's even the point?
So many good ideas have been offered on these forums that have been left to rot. What's the point of diving into specifics if BHVR is just going to steamroll ahead with plans that I can only describe as having been birthed by the mind of a schizophrenic crack head?
The only time they give a damn about what the peons think is when there's a large enough public outcry that they're afraid it'll affect their bottom line. You're more than welcome to keep using your limited time on this earth trying to come up with ideas that probably won't even be seen by anyone who "matters," let alone have those ideas implemented into the game, but I've played this game long enough to know that discussing balance is not a productive use of my time unless it's with someone who I know actually has the power to make those changes.
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@Rickprado said:
Sorry, this post isn't meant to be a flame, but when BHVR is going to do something against cheaters who are on Epic?
I've faced 2 cheaters just today and they all use have the same pattern = play on Epic Games. How do i know? Because they talk after the endgame and they have the crossplay icon on their names.
Why not increase the security on Epic? Why not make everyone who got DBD for free years ago having to spend at least 10$ to play on crossplay?
Its infuriating having a match destroyed knowing that hacker won't have any form of punish for cheating since the got tons of account they can use in case one of them gets banned.
I actually agree. People who didn't explicitly buy the game should have to spend at least $10 on auric cells (or its equivalent in DLC) before they have access to online play. If you make cheating more expensive, fewer people will be able to do it as frequently.
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The internet emboldens people to be mean, and nowhere is that more true than PvP games. A lot of people are sore winners. If you start seething because of two letters in end game chat, this might not be the right game for you…
But if you think you can handle it, you can always:
- Turn off end game chat
- Play vs. bots in custom games to practice
- Pick an easier killer to learn that will actually teach you basic Killer fundamentals instead of just playing killers that play the game for you
- Watch content creators that specialize in the killer you want to learn to see the real time use of techniques that the guides tell you
Though I will say that by playing killers like Ghoul you've probably inflated your MMR past where it'd realistically be if you played just about anything else, so now that you're trying to play anything that doesn't play the game for you, you're probably getting matched with people way above where your actual skill level is. Taking the easy way out doesn't do you a whole lot of favors in this situation.
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@lunaticlifter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010553#Comment_4010553
So i'll rephrase better. Easier to use for the purpose of playing killer which is to win the game or at least have control during chases. The killer you mentioned get stomped even by average survivors if the killer is not that good. They may be fine at low mmr but that's it. Again my point of view will be downvoted by many, but i'm trying to make in perspective for casual players. The problem is that the evolution of the game led to this. Survivors has always been the power role, so we are not used to have an ''easy killer'' which is strong.
SWF is the "power role." Solo queue is where dreams go to die. And yet the vast majority of survivors play alone. What did the vast majority of players do to deserve that lack of agency?
You need 4 survivors just to start a game. What incentive do they have to play when the outcome was basically decided on the killer's 'Killer Select' screen?
To be clear: I'm not against strong killers. I'm just against killers that have very little counterplay, and I'm against killers that don't require any skill expression to unlock their potential.
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@lunaticlifter said:
Same goes for killers that don't want krasue to be nerfed, so they can stomp solo players… so what's the point of this post? not everybody is a streamer, ''10 k hours comp player'' or play everyday .. it's fine to have stronger killer easier to use, considering survivor in comparison is easier.. the real problem as it has always been is the gap between solo and swf… i play dbd since 2018(both sides player but i only have 3,5k hours). This never changed.
Nerf krasue — another killer that good survivors in swf can control
Keep it as it is — solo players will be hurt.
But i'ts fine imho even if it's frustrating on survivor side.. if one side is having fun, the other probably isn't. Because fun for most of the people is just ''dominate the other'' (of course it doesn't apply for everybody and every circumstance)You can't have a perfect/balanced thing in this game. it's utopia, thats's why after all these years it keep changing and changing but it will never reach it's goal. So keep playing without complaining, if you don't enjoy the game, don't play it. This is the nature of dbd.
This is just a bizarre thought process to me. There are plenty of simple killers that are easier to play. Wraith, Huntress, Clown, and Legion are all pretty straightforward for new players, and they also teach new players the fundamentals of Killer in general.
"Easier to play as" doesn't mean the same thing as "easier to 4k as." When I'm playing against someone, I have fun on both sides even if I get outplayed because I can appreciate their skill (and learn from my mistakes) despite knowing I just got my butt kicked. If someone doesn't want to invest time into learning how to play a PvP game, that's fine, but their results should reflect that.
I thought this was obvious, but I guess I have to say it: People don't deserve easy wins against other real people just because a character is wildly overtuned.
Having a killer that is easy to kill everyone with is actually harmful to a new player's overall experience because their MMR will artificially skyrocket, causing them to get extremely skilled opponents on other less powerful killers if they dare venture out into the world of killers who don't hold your hand while you play. And I haven't even talked about the survivors' experiences of feeling like nothing they do will change the outcome of the game as soon as the match starts.