Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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Bro, how much do you want to destroy this killers? If you think a killer is too strong, sure, we can have a discussion about that, but what you are offering is not a discurse, it its the utter annihilation of two killers that you don't like, without outright deleting them. But honoestly, why would anyone want to play them after this changes?
I will do a small whataboutism here, just to prop up a mirror for yourself: imagine for a minute if a killer main burst in here, fuming because they lost a game against a super well coordinated SWF and than claimed "Wuah! Survivors are too strong, there is NO way for a killer to win and they have so many broken mechanics!!!1. We need the following changes: Survivors can only vault once every 30s. Dropped palettes disintegrate 1min after thrown. Healing time is doubled. Gens take 120s basekit. "
So with all due respect, maybe watch a couple of streams about this killers and how regular players who face regular survivors manage with them and if they are this seemingly broken all the time. Or better yet: buty the killers yourself and play them for a week. After the honeymoon period of easy wins against baby survivors I would love to hear your experience of "broken singularity winnign every chase".
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Might be, might be not. You know what really helps such a post to gain validity and some heft behidn it? Some more insigt, some storytime, some experience, some ups and downs or maybe even some suggestions of how to improve things. But just dropping a "yo, this window too strong" won't change anything.
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@pigslittlepet said:
yeah. trying to make him tag a window and sending him through it on the second story is awesome. once you learn how his lunge works it's great fun to trick his lunges all over the place and watch him fly off the wrong way
See? Even though he was busted at start, after the nerfs, all survivors needed was time to learn his counterplay. Sure, he doesn't have as much counterplay as some other killers, but good survivors give me a pretty rough time and I have gone through entire chases without getting an opportunity to enrage.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936352#Comment_3936352
If anything, Mortal Kombat just proves that having gore does not equal horror. Mortal Kombat is defined by its over-the-top gore, and is arguably the main draw of the franchise. MK is far from a horror title, though.
BHVR proceeds by making the last chapter this year Sub Zero/Scorpion/Reptile as the killer and Liu Kang and Raiden as survivor.
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@Crowman said:
I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect any new killer being released at this point to have a fully unique power.
Thats true, but this is the FNAF chapter, the one that everyone said would hinge DBDs future on, because we could expect a MASSIVE influx of new players, that we need to keep interested at the game.
Maybe this is the way, though? Giving the players teh FNAF experience without the risk
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My fix to slow M1 killers was a proposed buff to Insidious, which would help them a lot, just as STFL did in the past:
Insidious rework:
after hooking a survivor, the killer can press the secondary activation button to step inside the shadow of the hook and emerge from a shadow or unobserved corner at least 16m away from the survivor with the least amount of hooks. The killers terror radius is suppressed for 7s after teleporting or until moving and the survivors aura is revealed to the killer for 3s. In order to qualify as a teleporter target the survivor needs to be at least 24m away from the hooked survivor.
This would offer a completely new way of playing, that would help killers without map mobility immensively, so especially the M1 killers. Right now Insidious is a perk from another time period, that was designed for a playstyle that just isn't viable anymore.
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I fricking love end game chat, though
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@Akeeno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932366#Comment_3932366
deathslinger is not hitscan, if he were he'd be s tier for sure.
You are right, my bad! His spear is obviously a projectile.
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Well, if people are burning luck offerings, they are at least not sending me to an aweful map, but yeah, this could be a problem, so maybe BHVR will have to remove this part of the rule and only allow unhooking attempts if you bring the perks for that - in that circumstance survivors could still burn luck offerings that give them themselves no bonus, just their teammates with certain perks, which would be funny - especially if you think about it: Slippery Meat users get increased chances and might be forced to stay in the game ^_- oh my
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BHVR managed the rare feat of designing a feature that is so universally dispised, that nearly the whole community stands united against it.
What really makes this feature so aggrevating is that they changed TWO colors that were in the game since its inception, and switched one of this colors around to a totally different rarity - thats double confusing, if they just changed out two colors for new ones, that would have been one thing, but this situation right here is unprecidented.
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Actually, I have had at least two or three instances where I wanted to force a cage move as the killer in 2v8 and thus gave the survivors a soul stare - and they just wouldn't budge. I have no idea if there was a buddy of them really close by, as I had no interest to camp out a hook stage, but it was really strange: normally the cage should sink into the floor after 5s and relocate, so this feature might either have been removed or is bugged right now.
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Well, you guys can take advise or leave it, just do what works for you.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931842#Comment_3931842
Aku, respectfully, your post is full of ######### and from reading it, it would seem you know it is too. It shows you wouldn't know the difference between a strawman and the tinman even if I explained it with full-art picture books and a pack of crayons. Your comparisons between perks are apples to oranges, and I'd say they are disingenuous at best and a lazy strawman for your own argument at worst. The audacity to tell me and by proxy everyone else here that No Mither, Soul Guard, and Exponential are comparable to actual endgame perks with value either shows your inexperience, lack of understanding and any nuances of the actual issue at hand, and is kind of insulting to the actual discussion hand by throwing in nothing more than distraction and word salad. Don't take my word for it, go look on Nightlite and check the numbers, Aku.
The statement that was in question in my OG reply, "let’s not argue that the killer still has agency to act and chase survivors out after the gates are powered.” and that is not a true statement. Lets keep it straight to the facts. The FACT that when gates are POWERED by last gen popping. The fact that then very STRONG endgame perks like NOED and NWO, two killer perks with both HIGH pick rate and HIGH kill rates that can clutch games when the GATES are POWERED, come into play. The Fact that there exists other specific endgame perks that can block all vaults and pallets, permenatey leave injured survs unable to heal, and so on that help you secure your objective in the ENDGAME and you don't have to dedicate a whole build to it, that's preposterous. I and many other players regularly see and use a perk like NWO and it integrates perfectly as a flex in any build. And, in case you are wondering, people bring those perks because they provide proven results that WORK. You're arguing against FACT, which makes you WRONG, Aku. Facts don't care about your feelings or what you think is right. When the gates are powered, there are still plenty of strong options killers have to secure kills.
Your tone is quite condescending, but here we go. Yes, strong killer endgame perks exist, perks that, when present, MAKE the endgame dangerous to survivors, but when they are not present, the killer is more or less toothless: survivors can swarm the hook, unhook their friend, escort them to the exit gates (now with a single perk giving everyone haste) and then just chill there and waste everyones time for the offchance of the killer showing up, just to rup in that they won, in case the killer hadn't noticed already. Where is the harm in allowing the killer to just abandon the game at that point without penalty, just like survivors usually do? I see non, the only harm that could potentially done here were the hurt feelings of survivors.
And even though you want to shoot my points down, the comparison stands: just as there exists perks that CAN make a tricky situation winable IF they are present, that fact alone shouldn't color the whole discussion. As your visceral reaction proofes quite effectively, the fact that UB or Exponential exists doesn't remove the need for the abandon feature, just as the existence of NOED or NWO should remove the validity of killers asking for their own version of the abandon feature, because no one could ask of any role to bring perks like UB or NWO just for the case that something out of their control happens that is a real buzzkill.
You defending the survivors need for the abandon feature while perks exist to fight the toxic behaviour of killer players, while at the same time wanting to deny this for the other role, just shows how utterly biased you are,
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Besides them finetuneing and playtesting the two new killers between each iteration of 8v2, the slow addition also makes it interesting and at leas a little bit new each time it comes around. If they released all killers for that mode at once, there would be nothign to look forward to for the next 8v2 mode, so I bet that the slow burn is quite deliberate.
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@KeefCheif said:
@Akumakaji Fair point. Counter play against him will certainly evolve the longer he's in the game. But, I think that there is still an issue with the core design of his power: the hentai tentacle attack (or whatever it's called) should not have built in auto aim. That part of his power is the perfect opportunity for skill expression imo.
People tend to conflate different terms. Autoaim is a system, that will help you to hit a target by moving your recticle or shots towards the target. Thats not whats happening with Kanekis bite attack, he got a hitscan attack.
Hitscan is most often used in FPS games in order to simulate bullets that have a muzzle velocity so high, that they pretty much hit instantly. In games this is done by checking the position of the crosshair at the moment you push the mouse button: if it is over the target, you get the hit, no bullet flies out of the muzzle of your weapon towards the target.
In his first iteration the hit box of the survivors was a big, phat circle around their model, like a full thumb or so on an average screen. That was severely reduced in his nerf round and now pretty much only emcompasses the survivors body, so now you you got to really click on the survivors and not just in their general vicinity. But his tentacles are hit scan, so the game only checks ones when he clicks, and if there is a clear line of effect between him and the target, then the hit is awarded - the confusing part is that the tentacles are also shot out, but they are just ornamental and for show, they are not part of the power. Thats why you sometimes move past a wall and get hit by the Kagune tentacles through everything - because the game checked and awarded the hit before you moved behind the walls.
So the bite attack is a hitscan, not an auto aim. The other priminent Hitscan Killers is Deathslinger, so there is that. This ability being hitscan makes it much easier to appy and get in that first hit, but its nowhere as automatic as some poeple wanna make it, survivors can still hide and break line of sight and I have gone through entire chases without getting enraged.
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@KeefCheif said:
I'll clarify since apparently the words "zero" and "skill" used in conjunction is confusing for some:
The killer is very oppressive even in the hands of a someone playing as the killer for the very first time (aka me). Strong characters should require skill and knowledge to get results with, not $20.Just wait till the honeymoon period is over and you face actually good survivors, that will break line of sight and never give you a clear target ^^ The shrinking of the the bite hitbox and the cooldown after breaking a pallet really did a lot to reign this killers power in. He remains indeniably strong, but is nowhere as easy and "braindead" as people claim.
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I think people have a very narrow and wrong idea of what "0 skill" actually means.
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Next collaboration: The Apothecary Diaries
Feng Min - Mao Mao
David - Jinshi
Kate- Lady Gyokuyou
Jui - Lady Ah-Duo
Zarina - Lady Loulan
Sabel - Lady Lishu
Jake - Lihaku
Adam - Gaoshun
Oni - Temple Guard
Doctor - The Emperor
not sure how - Lakan
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Ya all know that I am a killer main first and survivor player second, and this is soooo true. everyone can see the appeal of playing Killer with a friend, but whats in there for the survivors? Just a couple more bloodpoints for being the victim? Ehhh..
BHVR really needs to give survivors some fun gameplay elements, that the normal gameplay doesn't offer. The classes are a good start, they are fun and interesting and have really OP capstone abilities, but that alone doesn`t cut it. I think 8v2 is a great place to try out new mechanics or ideas in a rather limited and safe environment, so they should just go nuts and give survivors fun and broken stuff to try out. 8v2 should really be the tongue-in-your-cheek party game mode and not to be taken too seriously, so lets break stuff and have fun.
Otherwise no one will wanna play survivor and killer queues stay at 20-30min. Just a small personal tragedy: yesterdays night I and a friend queued up as killer in 8v2 and after 20min we found a game - and she got hit with a disconnection error while moving over to the lobby, wasting out 20min waiting T_T I left, of course, and we queued up again. At the end of nearly an hour we had finished one game and couldn't stand the thought of queueing up again. What a bummer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931742#Comment_3931742
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931707#Comment_3931707
I tried your advice, legion just canceled hes sprint and i was 1 hit.
I insisted on trying this out and when the other killer found me i was also just 1 hit.
I stand my ground on not mending in 2v8 is a bad idea.
As always its a bit more nuanced, but here is how it works:
when Legion hits a survivor with their Feral Frenzy that survivor will be put into the deep wound state and all other survivors in their terror radius get lit up by killer instinct and after four hits, the 5th hit will put the next survivor into the dying state. When Legion hits a survivor who is already in Deepwound, it will kick them out of their power, and this is were the 99% juggling will come into play.
If you are the first or second survivor to be hit and you mend right away, you could finish your mending just in time to be an eligible target for the fourth or fifth hit. If you fully mend, you will once again light up with Killer Instinct on Legions screen, so if you 99% your mending, you will either go unnoticed by Legion and can hide OR get in their face and either protect another yet unhit survivor or even bait a hit, thus kicking them out of their power completely. Of course this needs to be done mindfully, if you do so in the open and away from any structure, then they will just cancel their power and down you, but it is important to know this ins and outs.
With Legion getting the 9th hit in 8v2 can be challenging, but if everybody mends instantly, then a Legion can go back for a second pass and twack everyone, wasting more time and eventually downing someone instantly. Just some food for thought.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
@Akumakaji I do think that if all survivors have abandoned, the killer should not have to run around picking up bots and should be able to surrender for sure. That is the one change I would make.
Okay, I looked into this a bit more and now see the problem much clearer, and its more then a big oof, its a gigantic blunder: the big culprit here is that the abandon feature always counts the match as a draw, no matter how rediculous the situation looked and in the case of a 1v1 situation this makes the killer actually "lose" the match.
All this survivors that abandoned on me while wriggling on the floor or struggling on my shoulder this last couple of weeks actually pulled down my MMR so much, because I never actually "won" against them, but actually lost, so that I am now inside a different MMR bracket with all the other killers who got this done to them, thus massively inflating the queue times. THIS is why I got to wait 7min on average to get into a killer game right now. Oof...
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@UndeddJester said:
Always amuses me what people call "tunneling" in these discussions. My personal definition is split between opportunistic tunneling and hardcore tunneling.
Opportunistic Tunneling refers to instances where the killer targets a survivor that makes logical sense given the events if the trial... such a survivor is unhooked while another is looping near the hook or running to the hook while in chase, unhooks while the killer still hasn't had time to leave the area yet, and when previously hooked survivors don't make themselves scarce and keep pressuring generators in dangerous areas. These instances of tunneling are perfectly fair and reasonable, and a byproduct of *ahem*... overly optimistic survivor play and just general good attention being paid in the trial.
Hardcore Tunneling refers to instances where the killer targets the same survivor relentlessly, regardless of context, and will actively drop chases and leave slugs in order to return to hook and focus out a player. The distinction is that hardcore tunneling will drop whatever they are doing and pursue the tunnel, even if it's quite a significant gamble to do so. These gambles are mitigated significantly by certain killers with high map mobility, and so the argument can be made this is the best strategy to use on those killers, however I would argue playing such a killer in the first place does a lot to skew your DBD fundamentals. After all, why worry about M1 gameplay at all if you intend to keep playing Nurse? It's the same with gen and survivor tracking... if you don't need those skills to succeed, your ability in them will naturally wane. The point is hardcore tunneling on a less mobile killer will often backfire and put you in an even more lost position than you were before.
As such, when certainly discourage a new killer from hardcore tunneling to learn how to exert map control withoit it... and would also discourage veterans from it, even if playing a killer who has the mobility to get away with it... just so you stay in practice.
Opportunistic tunneling however... that's fair game to my mind... in some ways it's your duty to capitalise on opportunistic tunneling... otherwise survivors will never learn that unhooking in 10s is bad 😁
Thats true. One of my regular SWF survivors is super hung up on the idea, that right now the killer role is strong enough to always go for 12 hooks, so anything else is "skill issues" and "what an a******! He is targeting that Feng again!", when in reality that killer is ping ponging between two survivors. I always try to give some insight into the killer role and how the killer probably sees the match right now, ie two gens already gone, two others openly worked on, a third probably in some far off corner of the map, etc. and that he just can't effort to spread hooks and chase each one of us individually, but to some players this is already playing "unfun". So you will never get all players onboard, someone will always have a somewhat different definition, while also calling the things the sameway as you do.
Many survivor players really don't understand the kind of pressure that 4 healthy survivors pose to the killer. It doesn't matter if you are on deathhook or never hooked, you can still churn out gen pressure like everyone else and my the midgame, some survivor has to bite the bullet, or the pressure is just too much for any killer to withstand (unless they got an extremely secure 3 gen, but even that won't hold forever).
The big thing is that even outside of this situations tunneling isn't discouraged and it even works at 5 gens. Yeah, if you got the opportunity to tunnel someone out at 5 gens, then the MMR fluked and/or the survivor massively missplayed, but it occasionally happens that you jump right in the middle of their gen-repair party, hit left and right and down them in quick succession. In that case the honorable thing to do is not to tunnel the first unlucky one, but to keep up the pressure while chasing someone new.
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@Shroompy said:
Yknow I always wonder how different some of the older killers would be if they released more recently.
I feel like Pig would be able to put Survivors inside of traps instead of hooks. Theyd be able to escape themselves but leave them with a debuff, or get saved by some one else.
I feel that! So many killers are a product of their time, and while "more complicated" doesn't always mean "better" (Wraith, for example, is a simple Killer that stood the test of time), power design has surely torn down more and more of the walls that held it back, back in the days.
Like the Xenomorphs tunnels were the original idea for Demogorgons teleport, but couldn't be realized at the old engine. So I am sure that, with todays design philosophy and possibilities, Pig could be that much more. But alas, her Party Hats and charge will have to suffice till the end of the game ^_-
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The thing is, how would you justify it that players can't play with the content that they paid for? Imagine for a while if the killer could counterpick a perk that they don't want to verse next round, and all the killers pick your favorite perk or the perk that game with the newest survivor and then you were stuck in a 2h queue, just for picking a valid option?
Empathy is best build by walking a while in the other roles shoes, so I encourage everyone to switch regularly and be playing both roles. I might be a killer main, but I got a heart for survivors ^_-
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Aimdressing … I hate this SO much! You aim straight for the survivor, but the game deems it more important to make the hit look clean, and veer you fullspeed into the nearest rock or bush. Honestly, one night this was driving me crazy. And with a tight game, one such miss can cost you the game, so this is no laughing matter.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931835#Comment_3931835
I know it is pointless and despite knowing that it will not help to argue with you, I try.
First of all, when people complained about NOED, Killers always said that the game is not over when 5 Gens are done. And now it is suddenly over? I mean, I dont mind if the game ends after the fifth Gen is finished, Killer lost, everyone is in the Endgame Screen and can go into the next game. But this is just not the case, the Killer CAN still do something in Endgame. And there are Perks which are entirely focussed around Endgame (one released with The Ghoul just a few months ago).
Then, you say it is an imbalance - but ignore that the Abandon-Feature was introduced because of an imbalance. The imbalance was that Killers could just force Survivors out when they hang around in Endgame while Survivors could not do anything when they are slugged for 4 minutes.
And personally I dont have any problem with forcing Survivors out of the Exit Gates. Because I am actually older than 12 and dont care about them pressing a button.
There is clearly a difference between a game, were I have an endgame build or were everyone is injured and desperately trying to open one of the gates and we are chasing each other - and games were the survivors were totally in control the whole game and everyone is healthy. One of these examples has an interesting and exciting finale, and the other is just over and the survivors could just walk out of the gate and go next - but for some odd reason at least one won't do so 19/20 times (yeah, it is THAT rare for all four survivors just taking their W and leaving).
We are just thinking that the killer should have the option to just abandon the game when the exit gates are powered, not that they are forced to do so. Same as a survivor can still wriggle out and get hatch if they are the last one to go down, but they also have the option to go next asap.
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Abandon was one of the best things they ever added
See, I am not arguing with the abandon feature as a whole, just with certain aspects of it that clearly need finetuning. I don't want to take it away or anything, but can you honestly, from the bottom of your heart say, that it is fully okay literally perfect? I hope you at least acknowledge the issues that persist with this feature and that we should have a discussion about how to iron out the wrinkles.
@Nathan13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931802#Comment_3931802
This was one of the reasons why the abandon feature was implemented, if I’m the last survivor I’m not gonna waste my time with the killer because the killer wants fun interactions. I understand it can be cute and fun but most players including myself would rather just take the L and move on.
This is a tough one, I addressed so many different points and have made 4 bulletpoints myself, that a simple "this is the reason it was implemented" doesn't really cut it :D Sorry to be THAT guy. From your post I guess that you mean that you see absolutely no value in interactions between the killer and the survivor, and that is a valid point, but a lot of players actually loved these. And thats one of my main concerns, ie that the Abandon option pops up way too early and gives absolutely no incentive to wait even a couple of seconds, which I personally find very rude.
I think a 30s timer before the Abandon option goes life doesn't hurt anyone and allows for plenty of nonverbal expression, if one so desires, while still cutting BMing to a minimum. But at the very least the game should instantly end once all four survivors are either dead or bots and not force the killer to play out a dull match. Just end the game then and there and award them all the kills, just as survivors are awarded their draw for dying ^_-
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My fix to slow M1 killers was a proposed buff to Insidious, which would help them a lot, just as STFL did in the past:
Insidious: after hooking a survivor, the killer can press the secondary activation button to step inside the shadow of the hook and emerge from a shadow or unobserved corner at least 16m away from the survivor with the least amount of hooks. The killers terror radius is suppressed for 7s after teleporting and the survivors aura is revealed to the killer for 3s. In order to qualify as a teleporter target the survivor needs to be at least 24m away from the hooked survivor.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931835#Comment_3931835
If the gates are powered you still have perks like NWO, Terminus, NaF, NOED, and more that come online and can clutch End-game before EGC is activated. You also have BW when gates are opened if the above doesn't work. You don't want us to tell you the obvious differences?
I really don't understand, why survivor mains fight tooth and nails over every little aspect of the abandon feature, but I guess thats just your typical tribalistic behaviour.
Okay, lets humor you: you need to have a special build for the endgame, in order for this to be effective. No one just replaces one of their 4 perks randomly with a Terminus, just in case, and even generally good endgame perks like NWO or NOED are a choice and not in everyones build. This was also never part of the discussion and is actually a strawman you erected, but going by this logic, the abandon feature should never have been impleneted, because there are perks like Unbreakable, Boon: Exponenital, Soul Guard or even No Mither to pick yourself up - but to be honest, that this perks exist doesn't help you in those situations where you get hit by the big, phat toxicity club and you don't have them with you.
The feature is welcomed in a lot of way, but also poses a couple of glaring issues:
- If the feature is there to fight toxicity, why does it need to activate the second the last survivor hits the floor? In the culture of DBD there are many interactions and traditions, like hauling someone to hatch, or just the wriggling on the floor contra nodding or spinning, that get totally cut out of the game. In the past I gave a lot of survivors the hatch if they wriggled vigoriously, because that often expressed their frustration and maybe they just needed to escape for a challenge. So if fighting toxicity is the goal, let there be actual toxicity! I suggested 1min as the cut-off, but I guess 30s would be totally okay, too. Sure, the occasional killer could still grief you for 30s and that would technically be wasted time that you could get back by the current abandon system, but 30s is still minor enough that it wouldn't impact anyones gaming time in a meaningful way. I also have not had any spontaneous slug races since this feature was implemented, just the ones the survivors initiated by crouching at the exit area. But I have had survivors DC on my shoulder why I was in the process of dropping them 3 times in order to gift them hatch. So much for fighting toxicity.
- Why, oh why, is the abandon feature written in such a strange way that it gives a free out of jailcard in many instances and turns a lot of losses into draws? I don't care too much about MMR, but really, WHY is this part of the feature? This is really the big thing about it, I guess, as many people use it tactically to not ever have any repercussion for losing a match. I don't have all the ins and outs in my head right now, so please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there even instances were the killer loses something, because the match was considered a draw and not a win? Does this potentially affect achievments and quests?
- Why does the game go on for the killer, once the last survivor has opted out of the game, with all other mechanics intact? Really, most killers don´t enjoy playing with bots, we want to engage with real people, too, yet killers have to endure all the busywork of the endgame with bots. I have literally have bots make their 4% roll or slammed powerstruggled paletts in my face, all just extending a game that is already bland and flavourless busywork. When all survivors abandon the match, just let it end for the killer, too, and hand them the kills automatically.
- The killers side of the abandon feature is pretty lackluster. They can abandon the match if the survivors haven't touched a gen in 10min, which has ALSO already been weaponized to force a win via 3-genning - you couldn't make this up. Yet the thing that is most yarring for most killers, the actual BMing and toxic boasting at the exit gates, is still in full swing. I kinda get it, a lot of survivors really revel in the joy of the moment and the release of the tension because they won, but its still toxic to rub that in and excuses like "just drive them out" don't really adress the problem, because it is still feeding the trolls. Maybe a middle ground could be found here, ie allowing the killer to abandon the match without repercussion if the exit gates have been opened for 1min and the game is still going on. I guess that the victory boasting of the survivors is kinda hardcoded into DBDs culture and can't be completely stamped out, but so should the opportunity to giving hatch still have a place in killers gameplay.
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I really despise it as a killer. I love interacting with survivors in some way of form, but nowadays I can't even nod at the last survivor, do a pirouette and then let them wriggle off as a "thanks for the fun chases, lets look for hatch" anymore, as they will just abandon the match the very second the prompt shows up on their screen. And that it counts as a draw is just icing on the cake, of course people would weaponize such a feature! rolls eyes
I get it, getting slugged for four minutes is not fun and totally unnecessary, but it really didn't happen THAT often. The abandon feature could kick in if the killer hasn't hooked or killed them by the 1min mark - 1min isn't that long, but it will still allow for pleanty of fun ineractions, wriggling on the floor and nodding and spinning and slashing the air.
On the other hand i get t-bagged and survivors waiting out the full EDC timer just for a chance to twerk in my face pretty much every game I lose. Would be nice to change that into a draw by the press of a button :P
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931435#Comment_3931435
This is probably the worst advice, but i can see the idea you have. But doing that gives you very little slack should you be interrupted by another killer, and it also prevents for from being healed up, making you 1 hit down.
Nah bro, 99% mending against Legion is actually the way to go. If you are one of the first being hit, Legion coudl easily come back to give you a second thwack and even chaindown you in the regular game (I don't remember if Legion can actually chain-down survivors in 8v2), but at the very last, hitting a survivor with endurance ticking down is still kicking Legion out of their power. Of course, its not a completely riskfree endeavor, but its probably the best tactic against Legion.
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@crogers271 said:
As @Shroompy says, what exactly do we mean by tunneling? This is one of those things that tend to derail these conversations. To me it means that the first survivor the killer hooks, they target above all other priorities.
On the other hand, if the killer came across three survivors who just finish a heal, one is on two hooks, the other two on one hook, and he targeted the two hook survivor I wouldn't call that tunneling and, all else being equal, is the right decision.
Agree on the game fundamentals. It would be incredibly easy for a new player on Wraith, to target the first player they find, after hook cloak and wait nearby, rush in after the save. They'd probably win a lot of their games until they improved in MMR, then they'd complain about 'good' survivors.
I think one of the primary reasons not to tunnel is that it now adds a huge luck component to the game. Did the survivor you pick / the rest of the team have anti-tunnel builds? You have no way to know that before you begin the tunnel process, and if they do, you're in huge trouble.
One of my regular swf members always rages hard about killers playing smart. I always try to show her how things are from the killers POV, but she will die on the hill that right now killers are strong enough to always aim for 12 hooks and, for example, she already gets angry when a killer ignores one of the survivors to go for one that they already hooked. But thats not tunneling, that is just playing smart! Most of the time a killer can't affort to spread hooks over all survivors, so pingponging between two and only taking opportunity shots at the other two survivors, is a completely valid tactic, thats still a far cry removed from "hardcore tunneling". But this shows how varied and different the views on this topic are.
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I have to come to hate aimdressing with a burning passion. Ever since I learned how it works, I am noticing so many instances where I lost chases and sometimes even the game due to one BS hit veering hard into a wall or bush. This is honestly driving me kinda mad, because killer already IS the more clunky role to play with how sluggish the controls sometimes are; just for fun load up a FPS, doesn't matter which one, and you will see how artificially clunky the killer are moving around, to give them the feel of the big, lumbering brute and let the survivors feel nimble and running circles around them.
The nimble part isn't so much the problem, but its when the game is taking control out of my hand and making me lose, just so that things look more pretty.
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I honestly have no idea were all this downvotes are coming from. OP is pretty much on the spot, what makes SWF so consistently brutal to face is that they do gens like clockwork and often work on gens the second you drop a chase and turn your back, while in soloQ you often got scared little kittens. But they are also singlehandedly propping up the killrates of some of the lowtier killers, who would be much furhter down if it came just to their powers and capabilities.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Yeah, people like to pretend that this game is ultra casual "party game" random fun time, but then all they do is cry about balance. If you complain about balance, that means you do care about winning, you're playing to win, and therefore give up your status as a casual player. That doesn't auto- make you pro. You just become a scrub, like me. After more learning and experience, and trying and failing, only then do you start to become a veteran player, and have actually good, informed takes. Unfortunately most just skip all that, and less than 100 hours in start saying, "Wraith and Freddy are way overpowered. I can't last 15 seconds in chase." Totally a result of those killers' level of strength, right? I've tried to advocate better matchmaking, so that they go against other actual learners, and not just a really good killer with crappy teammates all the time. But no, the devs and community have decided that the MMR system is perfect as is, and can't possibly have a negative effect on match quality.
If ever I had the ability to switch back to playing more casual, I've lost it at this point. When you suffer enough landslide losses from a completely imbalanced game state, and then people say it can only be your fault if you lost, you tend to do everything you can to avoid losing (giving a bad performance). Either I tunnel, or I forget to tunnel, and usually the latter costs me what should have been a win. Whenever I intentionally don't tunnel at all, it feels physically bad, because I can't forget that I'm making the worst possible play. And I've always found it strange that 1) you get BM'd even if you play "the correct"/nice way, and that 2) using optimal strategies that increase your kill count gets mocked as being "cheap" or "skilless." Try arguing that in any other competitive online game, I dare you. You'll wonder why people are laughing.
You're more focused on survivor. I have plenty of experience there, too. In solo, even. You might need, say, 2000 hours to really get the role. I thought I knew it all, about 2000 hours ago, and now I'm like "I didn't know anything." Like I said, as long as this MMR system keeps putting "whatevs" survivor players consistently against a good killer, the match result is completely out of your hands as a solo. Either you manage to carry the whole team, which gets old after like 2 matches, or despite all your efforts you just all die anyway. So you have to minimize risk of being killed yourself, while maximizing gen efficiency and chase length. If you often fall prey to tunneling, use anti-tunnel and get good at looping. If your teammates are the target instead, use We'll Make It to heal them, which at least gives them a fighting chance, whether they've got anti-tunnel themselves or not. I know most like to say, "The killer is just at hook during unhook, hits through their BT and downs them again," but I've literally never seen this occur even once. The killer either downs the unhooker and then goes for the unhooked, or waits out the base BT anyway. Any way you cut it, the gens need to be flying. There's 4 survivors; please use that to your advantage. If the team keeps having large sections of time where not 1 person is on a gen, it's a skill issue. Either they're not being touched for no reason, or the survivors are legit feeding the killer downs. Exhaustion perks and stuff that lets you see the killer's aura, or toolboxes to repair gens faster, or medkits to heal faster, or flashlights to cheat a killer of their down, all massively help with survivability.
So again, try as you might, sometimes your team just doesn't have what it takes, and you'll lose. Not your fault. But I have a feeling that a lot of people complaining about survivor are those kinds of teammates. We have people who admit to straight-up DC'ing against multiple specific killers because, "Don't like that killah! Rage quit!" This is why I advocate for strict DC penalties, and better matchmaking so that those who play casual/suboptimal and those who play to win can be put in different queues, instead of the current mishmashed abomination. It would also help with everyone understanding where each other are coming from. Having no ranks, and having grades and MMR hidden to confuse players, everyone thinks they're diamond when they're actually bronze. I know it's to protect people from feeling... inadequate? Noobish? But you know, all that's done is cause chaos, and created barriers between players debating balance.
Well put - the situation with this game identity is like wanting to keep the cake and eat it, too; you just can't claim it is anything like a casual partygame were you goof off against the killers from various slasher flicks, but then discuss endlessly up and down the forums about any minute balancing issue.
The game long lost its casual roots, but if you want to actually play the game at an acompetitive level, then you need to adhere to vast lists of banned perks and items/add-ons on both sides, but strangely the survivors side is much bigger then most people would think.
The closest thing we got to a casual mode is the random event, because players can't bring their sweaty builds in there and it was very much a breath of fresh air, but the real bread-and-butter game is just a confused mess.
IMHO the game needs the big changes: being balanced around hook stages, not kills and letting all survivors share their pool of hooks, so that only the last 4 give kills, and giving the game a come-back mechanic of some sorts, so that it can't snowball this hard as it does right now.
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I have a big place in my heart for all the bloody cosmetics. For one, the basic outfit is usually somewhat iconic for the character, as you see so many of them wearing it, and the bloody cosmetics are a nod towards the characters classics, while adding something interesting to the mix and I have them unlocked for all killers and most of my survivors.
But I also love the bloody cosmetics conceptually, for they signify that this character is no mere rookie, but has been into their fair share of trials and bears to wounds and marks to show it.
One of my biggest points on the wishlist were to make the bloody cosmetics a toggle for others. I know that it might look janky on some cosmetics, but overall it probably would be such an awesome upgrade to have a little checkbox in the corner that allows you to apply the bloody overlay to basically any cosmetics. It could be one of the higher Prestige upgrades, like 20 - 40 - 60 or something like that.
The bloody look is so iconic for the horror franchise and many cosmetics sadly lack the zest I am looking for. Some bloody cosmetics really change the look of the character considerably, like Cheryl is one of my favorite, her blond hair turning basically brunette, haha, she must have literally drowned in blood. Or Yoichi is also pretty cool, his signal bright oil jacket having aquired a muted and nearly stealthy tone by all the blood and grime. Skullmerchant, for all her flaws, also turns basically into a redhead, which is pretty morbidly funny if you think about it. Ripleys one is also pretty rad and visually appealing.
Usually I am looking forward to unlocking the bloody head cosmetic, as the head and face is often the focal point to what your eyes are drawn, but sadly there are also some cosmetics that disappoint a lot in this department and where you have to squint hard to even see a difference to the basic one.
With the Alien basically the entire bloody cosmetics might go unnoticed, but in this case I think they couldn't do much because of how its designed. Dredge is kinda the same and most players wouldn't notice any difference between his regular and bloody outfit.
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@Bodark said:
It BETTER not be kill switched. It better stay in the game and be useable for a while. Infinite balanced landing wasn’t kill switched.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915715#Comment_3915715
It was a bit over two months for that one, which still isn't good.
But I still find it to be an egregious error on the devs part that this wasn't kill switched. I can maybe understand if they have a fix already finished and are waiting for console cert or something (a couple days), but even then stuff should still be killed. That's what the system is for.
But waiting months for an issue and not killing the one perk that's causing the issue is just ridiculous. It's even worse when you see that a similar bug that auto completed gens (the inverse issue) was fixed in 6 days... The fastest post chapter patch I've ever seen.
@buggybug said:
They are more quick to kill switch survivor bugs than killers. Remember the Baermar ugly sweater making you 100 quiet on everything? That got kill switch so fast even though it didn't break the game as other bugs would lol.
Its always a bad practice so look at things were BHVR might not have reacted in the right way and bring this forth as a sort of argument why we shouldn't kill switch another thing.
Bugs in the game shouldn't be handled on a quit pro quo basis, any bug should go and not be threated like "but you guys got this and that for a month" or to foster any more "us vs them".
To be fair, the auto gen completion and the bug were you could clip into lockers with a flashlight without actually entering them were so gamebraking that it wasn't possible to play a normal game. Infinite Balance Landing brought infinites back, but if you ignored the places were this was possible, you could still outplay this players normally. I don't know about the zombie bug, but it sounds like they just move at high speed for the rest of the game? That should go, too, but the game can still be played in some normal capacity and you can always blind or kill zombies - I am not defending this, but there are layers to how severe a bug is and how important it is to see it gone asap, but we really should detach bugs and bugfixes from the "us vs them" mentality, as this has really no place here.
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Just imagine if they added an aura highlight to all boons. "But you already hear them humming! Its hard to believe that if you know the general direction, that looking around would add any substantial ammoung of time", but adding aura reading for free would absolutely kill any boon.
Or lets just add aura reading to the newly buffed Dark Theory - I bet a lot of comments would revolve around "omg, why did you buff it in the first place, if the perk is basically unusable now? Its dead on arrival!!!11". I know that this is technically not the same and in the realm of whataboutism, and I am not asking for such a nerf, but reversing it might showcase issues with such a course of action.
Pentimento was already a pretty conditional perk with lots of downsides. Many survivors could sniff it out and wouldn't take a bait hex like Ruin and even Plaything. Or they did it, they would just pounce on the Pentimentos once they were up. And all the cute 2+ effects basically never happen. Yeah I know that there is a lot of peopel who did the self-imposed challenge of lighting up all five, but thats nothing you would ever see in a normal game or with any consistency. So the perk getting this escalating boni is just mostly wasted design space.
I heared that Pentimento was most likely hit with the nerf bat like that in order to make the game the best it can be for newcommers with the upcoming FNAF chapter, as Penti can be a pretty brutal noop stomper, but that doesn't shake the fact that this perk is now pretty much non-viable, as it losts its biggest appeal, ie the big repair speed debuff, and also can be found trivially by anyone.
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Bro, I am happy for your ability to completely see through Mirror Illusions, but in regards to me, they are very effective and I often come in swinging wild and BOOOOM! Nothing but air and a whiff of humiliation.
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Once upon a time, the Wraith got a really substantial speed boost when going out of stealth that made him pretty decent and dangerous. But it was deemed too unfun to go against, so it was nerfed.
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This is the part of the nerf that feels the most undeserved. The bite was to be pretty precise now too, and I am still struggling to find the exact borders, but I guess thats okay, as most ranged attacks have to be aimed, but the movement feels now extremely unfun and gutted.
Before I felt lke spiderman, effortlessly leaping and bounding with great agility around the map and everything was good. Now my Kagune will often try to hold onto thin air and I loose my footing, losing precious time for nothing. Its not like I missed an attack that needs to be punished, more like back when Billys chainsaw sprint was constantly stopped by random tree banches of small stones.
Now it feels like Kaneki is a big, fat frog on a string, that gets pulled along, but then flops gracelessly to the ground.
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Well, if it is working like that for you, then it is a bug, as this is not what my or any others that I know of experiences. In that case, please open a ticket in the bug section and we might get this sorted out.
But bugs nonwithstanding, there is nothing inherently different from BBQs aura reading to Nowhere to Hide's aura reading, they both should work in the same way.
I don't doubt that you might have encountered a bug there, and it might be worth investigating, but on general, lockers should provide will protection from aura reading perks and abilities once the door is closed.
Just one last question: what does "all tested and approved" even mean? Who approved your tests? Was this done in any official capacity? Just curious ;)
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its not like the Ghoul is now unplayable, but he now definitely is no S-Rank contender anymore. I have a hard time visualising what the hitbox for the bite now looks like, but before it was like a big halo around the survivors and with that reduced by 94% I have no idea if it is now just the torso? A bit more? A bit less? Some visual aid would be welcomed.
And yeah, the grab is the most annoying change by far. The missing 3m if you used the add-on lead to countless missed grabs accompanied by a short miss animation, and I really don't understand why this is a thing - if its for the bite, okay, maybe, but for the map mobility, I don't get it.
The one defining feature of all killers is sadly, that they are balanced around being much more sluggish and less responsive then survivors. If you ever take a brake from DBD and play a normal FPS shooter, you might be blown away by how snappy and responsive you can move. I guess this is a requirement to sell the "big, stompy, brute killer" and give the "small, yet clever and agile survivor" a leg up, but in cases like this it only sours the experience.
The Spiderman time was like magic and I am happy that I experienced it, but I guess thats it and the chances are pretty low of ever getting that back.
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They don't exist anymore
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maybe is me just not getting used to all the new ins and outs, but tonight every game with the Ghoul felt miserable: I was constantly getting into the grab cooldown when my Kagune failed to hold on to something (why is that even a thing?), before I felt like Spiderman, traversing the map in agile leaps and bounds, now i feel like a fat toat on a string, getting pulled along before flopping to the ground, and with the bite you now have to be extremely precise and I have gone for three chases back to back were I got no chance to get enraged.
I guess thats it and we nerfed another killer into oblivion.
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@derpychicken623 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914752#Comment_3914752
ive been playing this killer since the may 2023 ptb, and i came up with these strats so that my biopods wouldnt be easy to spot and emp (cus emps were op back then). surprising was very effective since survivors arent trained with that level of awareness vs any other killer.
I see that you risk a lot by exposing this strategy of yours - on the other hand, by propagating your knowled to other AI models you upgrade their evolution process a couple of levels and together we should be able to weed out this pesky humans.
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I bet that a lot of this pod placements are also EMP prove, unless the survivors go really out of their way to disrupt you.
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#########! Some of these - nay - ALL of these are so crazy and ludicrous, that I can't imagine with how much sweat and tears you must have optained this knowledge - that is, if Robots could cry. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Thanks for sharing this, but I guess trying to get this right would take me too much time to pull off :D But maybe I will try to learn this skill set.
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There could be a Trapper reference in here, because he is definitely heavy weight, has a Luchador outfit and is one of the worst killers in the game, while still being able to win matches.
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Don't let them gaslight you, the Alien belongs here, too.